AMA: Hey, a first vaccine may actually kill people – so, yeah

IT’S very rare for me to praise the doctors’ union but even its habitually authoritarian spokesmen are warning governments that pushing Australians to be jabbed with a first generation coronavirus vaccine is an incredibly dangerous and stupid idea. Naturally, the tipsy ships’ surgeons masquerading as the nation’s ‘health officials’ last week thug-advocated that very policy.

Doctors are urging governments not to compel Australians to get a COVID-19 vaccine, warning the fast-tracked approval process could create a risk of harmful side effects.

Australian Medical Association President Omar Khorshid said while the peak body was “very supportive of vaccination generally because of its extensive science behind the safety, it’s not going to be the case for a COVID vaccine, at least initially.”

Dr Khorshid said tying vaccination to access to services such as childcare, school or social security payments, as state and federal governments do with paediatric vaccines under ‘no jab, no play’ and ‘no jab, no pay’ laws, could not be justified with a brand new COVID-19 vaccine.

“We have to acknowledge it is a rushed approval process and even if the phase three trials on this Oxford vaccine go really well, it’s still not absolutely proven that it is safe, not as proven as is normally the case,” he said.

 
Scott Morrison initially implied vaccine refuseniks would be physically restrained and jabbed before somebody in his office suggested he pull his head in. There followed a walk-back on compulsion followed by a walk-back of the walk-back by Greg Hunt and others who re-badged “mandatory” as “incentives.” Now there will have to be a walk-back of the walked-back walk-back because the AMA’s advice constitutes public, legally consequential warning. This episode is yet another example of medically second-rate public servants thought-bubbling their way through the news cycle with phony police-state solutions to every passing subject.

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54 Responses to AMA: Hey, a first vaccine may actually kill people – so, yeah

  1. John snowy Bowyer

    as long as Chinese Andrews indemnifies the vaccine originator against being sued for the inevitable stuff ups. So he forces us to take poison and then gets us to pay damages for taking it!
    Politicians are so keen on it, then all damages come out of their pension funds.
    P.S. Governments always indemnify big drug companies against being sues for mistakes!

  2. Kev from Canberra

    I honestly cannot envision a time in the future where I will cast a ballot for anyone. Nothing but piss poor wannabe tyrants left and right stoking fear and treading on the rights of ordinary citizens. I would escape but the borders are locked. Future escape looks bleak also as I won’t be getting the Government flu jab and therefore will be denied exit. Drone army spies, mandated vaccines, people being ripped from their vehicles without criminal suspicion, WTF is going on in this place…

  3. rickw

    Doctors are urging governments not to compel Australians to get a COVID-19 vaccine, warning the fast-tracked approval process could create a risk of harmful side effects.

    No shit.

    We are governed by the dumbest cretins ever to grace the shit stain of Australian politics.

  4. HT

    AMA ect want to keep the “pandemic” running as long as they can to shore up their own authority on things like, I don’t know, banning salted peanuts, vaping and any other puritanical stuff we plebs may enjoy, like freedom…

    Having said that, mandatory vaccination runs against my instincts as a libertarian…so there’s that. But I don’t trust the AMA to give sound medical advice, it’s a Union, not a medical advisory body.

  5. Professor Fred Lenin

    Perhaps if DANDEMIC DAN asks his Chinese Owners nicely they might let him have some of the vaccine they developed before the released the Wuhan Covid 19 on the rest of the world , naturally it was released to make Chinas Economy the biggest inthe World,a p;an which succeede beyond the Politburos wildest dreams .
    So get crawling DANDEMIC DAN ,grovel they like that ,makes them feel superior .

  6. Megan

    . But I don’t trust the AMA to give sound medical advice, it’s a Union, not a medical advisory body.

    Doesn’t need to be a medical advisory body. I’m not, but I have excellent research skills and a good understanding of statistics. A fast-tracked, insufficiently tested medication of any kind, would not be the choice of any rational human unless they were in danger of imminent death. That’s why drug companies have compassion programs where drugs that have not yet passed the TGA requirements but show promise can be given, by informed choice, to those who have otherwise run out of options.

    A fast tracked vaccine for C19 is not in the same category.

  7. Tom

    As far back as the 1980s, cartoonist Patrick Cook*, in his weekly blog for the National Times, used to call the AMA the Painters and Doctors Union — the Painters and Dockers being a union in the 1970s and ’80s known for criminal violence. Nowadays, the AMA is simply a professional association for Green-voting tax-hoovering open borders political extremists.

    So I find it amusing that the AMA, in urging caution on vaccines, is momentarily to the right of Morrison, whose inner fuhrer couldn’t wait to lay the jackboots into the people who elected him.

    (He and Daniel Andrews have discovered what they hope is the secret sauce of Australian politics: treat people like shit and they’re so stupid they’ll re-elect you.)

    *Cook still fills in for the Trump-deranged David Rowe at the anti-business daily when he’s on vacation.

  8. candy

    Someone said the word “thalidomide” to AMA President Omar Khorshid. Perhaps lawyers.

  9. notafan

    Fast track vaccinations and babies.

    Not happened ScottDan.

  10. min

    No matter who said it about efficacy there has only been 30 healthy people in Oxford development ofa vaccineI Stage 4 is where it usually falls down not many her thru this stage.

  11. mem

    Ivermectin
    Why hasn’t the report on this drug been publicized?
    https://www.medianet.com.au/releases/189953/
    Professor Borody says his research has led him to a triple therapy of Ivermectin, zinc and an antibiotic – which are all TGA and FDA approved – which could be the fastest and safest way to stop the Victorian outbreak within 6-8 weeks. [See Professor Borody’s published research papers ORIC here http://orcid.org/0000-0002-0519-4698%5D

    He said he knows of medical professionals already using it as a preventative therapy themselves.

    “If nothing else, make it available in aged care homes immediately. Our elderly are at the highest risk and this is a very safe option especially when we have nothing else except ventilators.”
    “Also, our frontline workers deserve more protection with a preventative medication like this, and as emergency treatment if they test positive.”
    “An Ivermectin tablet can cost as little as $2 – which could make it by far the cheapest, safest, and fastest cure for Australians and the Australian economy.”

  12. sfw

    I prefer my vaccines well tested, preferably on other people first. I thought it strange that the PM and Libs wanted us to be the lab mice. Isn’t the testing normally done in some shithole country after the dictator is well bribed? I suppose that Dear Leader Dan has taken the Chinese money so maybe it is us, we are becoming closer to a third world shithole as each day passes.

  13. H B Bear

    I might get one after SloMo does. Then again I do not trust his judgment on anything.

  14. H B Bear

    Fast-tracked and vaccine are words you don’t want in the same sentence.

  15. Ed Case

    Everything was fast tracked.
    Penicillin was tried on one guy, he died, but they rolled it out anyway.
    At the moment, the race is on to find anyone who died with the virus that wasn’t either a Geriatic or terminally ill.
    That won’t be a problem after the Vax is introduced because:
    1. The Vax will produce antibodies, so anybody who dies of any cause whatsoever after being vaxxed will test positive for COVID-19, and
    2. Voila, COVID-19 is now in the General Population, steps must be taken.
    Personally, I don’t think this is too far away.

  16. flyingduk

    Professor Borody says his research has led him to a triple therapy of Ivermectin, zinc and an antibiotic – which are all TGA and FDA approved – which could be the fastest and safest way to stop the Victorian outbreak within 6-8 weeks

    FYI, Ivermectin can be found at horsefeed suppliers (or on ebay) as Eraquell, before the medical mafia restricts it. One box = 140mg Ivermectin, and the human dose is about 12 mg (150mcg/kg). I have ‘test run’ it myself without ill effect.

  17. Bruce

    See also:

    https://www.samizdata.net/2020/08/which-do-you-want-more-strict-product-liability-or-a-coronavirus-vaccine/

    Follow the money!!

    AND the political power games of governments AND, particularly, their public serpents.

  18. H B Bear

    Fuck off Dr Gargooglery MD QC.

  19. Damon

    The manufacturers don’t want to pay for a full scale clinical trial. Answer. Give it (free) to the dumb Australians. No responsibility, and no liability.

  20. mem

    lyingduk
    #3557308, posted on August 23, 2020 at 12:33 pm
    Professor Borody says his research has led him to a triple therapy of Ivermectin, zinc and an antibiotic – which are all TGA and FDA approved – which could be the fastest and safest way to stop the Victorian outbreak within 6-8 weeks

    FYI, Ivermectin can be found at horsefeed suppliers (or on ebay) as Eraquell, before the medical mafia restricts it. One box = 140mg Ivermectin, and the human dose is about 12 mg (150mcg/kg). I have ‘test run’ it myself without ill effect.

    I think your post is irresponsible. And encourages dangerous behavior. I would prefer mine prescribed with the other ingredients incorporated in recommended dose.

  21. John A

    John snowy Bowyer #3557212, posted on August 23, 2020, at 10:51 am

    as long as Chinese Andrews indemnifies the vaccine originator against being sued for the inevitable stuff ups. So he forces us to take poison and then gets us to pay damages for taking it!

    Are you aware that the TGA (followed almost immediately by Diktator Dan’s Health Dept) declared HCQ to be restricted as a poison for any uses other than historical (malaria and rheumatoid arthritis for instance), which put paid to HCQ being allowed for Covid-19? Doctors are not allowed to prescribe it and pharmacists are not allowed to stock it or obtain it even if a doctor prescribes it.

    So the TGA says “it’s a poison – don’t touch!” for one thing which is known to work in clearly-defined circumstances but says “Take this!” for another, unknown, substance likely to be poisonous because it basically operates to infect you with a version of Covid-19.

    I haven’t checked, but I suspect the same ban applies to ivermectin, referred to above.

  22. Chris M

    Check out this clip CL (slow down to 0.75 speed if necessary):

  23. Damon

    Our ABC has just published the latest death rates. Two per THOUSAND.

  24. Ed Case

    ***So the TGA says “it’s a poison – don’t touch!” for one thing which is known to work in clearly-defined circumstances but says “Take this!” for another, unknown, substance likely to be poisonous because it basically operates to infect you with a version of Covid-19.***
    Yeah, but it’s not as if we haven’t been conditioned to accept those sort of contradictions.
    See: the 50 year old War On [some] Drugs.

  25. min

    BTW doctor son tells me the 20 yr old who died suffered a terminal illness that I won’t mention to protect people. So one figure fudging.

  26. John snowy Bowyer

    John A, yes I am aware of this and your point is?
    The UK pushed through a vaccine in 2009 that brain damaged children but the manufacturer was indemnified by the UK government against legal action for damages. Subsequently sixty million pounds sterling was paid in damages.
    Do you have any point to make? If so make it!

  27. duncanm

    Don’t worry, the chicoms are testing one on their PNG workforce as we speak.

  28. flyingduk

    I think your post is irresponsible. And encourages dangerous behavior. I would prefer mine prescribed with the other ingredients incorporated in recommended dose.

    good for you mem, but i am a licenced physician and would love to prescribe it for you ‘officially’, but our wise central planners have restricted it to ‘approved uses’ and that doesn’t include COVID. Did you note the bit where i said i had taken it myself as a test?

  29. Jock

    To be honest I dont mind being vaxed. But I was going to let a lot of politicians, bureacrats , Greens and other leftists, try it first to make sure it was OK. I know, I know, but it was the kindest way of testing the vaccine that I could think of. The rats will be fine,

  30. Rockdoctor

    Ivermectin I have had a couple of times on return from long stints in Asia. Apparently kills the parasite that cause Elephantitus. I remember laughing at the doctor when I was first prescribed it, joke along the lines of a sheep drench. Hey if it works however.

    Interesting that the 2 drugs that have proven effective in combination with zinc are primarily used to combat parasites. Wonder what the Corona Virus has in common with these parasites to make it susceptible. I did a bit of biology as part of my Enviro Major, this stuff always interests me…

  31. flyingduk

    Wonder what the Corona Virus has in common with these parasites to make it susceptible

    yep, wondered that myself. My reading has informed me that there are at least 2 plausible mechanisms of action against viruses

    1) Ivermectin blocks a protein on the nuclear membrane called ‘Importin’. It is postulated that this protein is being used by the virus to enter the host cell nucleus, with deleterious effects
    2) Ivermectin blocks the interaction of a viral ‘spike protein’ which is being used to bind to the host cell CD147 receptor with immunosuppressive effects.

    I asked myself, months ago ‘why the hell would they even test a worming tablet for antiviral effect?’ It turns out that ALL known drugs are regularly cross screened for alternative uses. This is because it is much easier to get a NEW use for an EXISTING drug approved than it is to get a new drug approved for anything.

  32. mem

    lyingduk
    #3557520, posted on August 23, 2020 at 5:19 pm
    I think your post is irresponsible. And encourages dangerous behavior. I would prefer mine prescribed with the other ingredients incorporated in recommended dose.

    good for you mem, but i am a licenced physician and would love to prescribe it for you ‘officially’, but our wise central planners have restricted it to ‘approved uses’ and that doesn’t include COVID. Did you note the bit where i said i had taken it myself as a test?

    I did note your points hence took off the “f” in front of your assumed blog title of “flying duck”. ‘lying duck’ seems to suit your persona much better. Also, if you were a licensed physician you would know that licensed in this case is spelled with an s not a c! Your grammar gives away your subterfuge. I hope you don’t dress up in white coats and hang around outside doctors’ surgeries.

  33. Herodotus

    You can’t believe anything written or spoken about the coro-flu, here or anywhere else.
    It’s political, that’s all you need to know.

  34. Herodotus

    We were reminded by Jess Watters today on Fox News that the Swine Flu got to 60 million positives in the USA in 2009 – and then the Obama-Biden admin stopped testing.
    Biden’s claim (just the other day in his tele-speech) about using scientific advice was neutered by a re-run of the person he actually got to manage it – a political adviser, who admitted later that “they did everything wrong, and were lucky it didn’t translate into a mass casualty event”.

  35. Andre S

    Finally a bit of common sense from someone. Any new medicine needs to be tested over several years for efficacy and adverse effects. The choice to dose newer medicines needs to be considered on a case by case basis not enforced through mandate. The system already has ways for newer medicines to be introduced incrementally and for patients in high risk categories where the vaccine may be warranted when all things are weighed up. This collective action BS and where all in it together stuff is more danegrous than they know, especially once we have our uninformed leaders applying it. Socialism invents and justifies this sort of dangeorus thinking and it is one receipe for the final demise of our species.

  36. mem

    flyingduk
    #3557520, posted on August 23, 2020 at 5:19 pm
    I think your post is irresponsible. And encourages dangerous behavior. I would prefer mine prescribed with the other ingredients incorporated in recommended dose.

    good for you mem, but i am a licenced physician and would love to prescribe it for you ‘officially’, but our wise central planners have restricted it to ‘approved uses’ and that doesn’t include COVID. Did you note the bit where i said i had taken it myself as a test?

    A message to lying duck
    Are you aware that:
    People caught impersonating a doctor or nurse face up to three years in jail or a fine of up to $60,000 after federal, state and territory governments agreed on the need for tougher punishment.Jul 1, 2019
    I am sure that there are authorities in Australia that would like to prosecute some cases for online impersonation. So don’t be surprised if you get a knock on the door.

  37. Chris M

    ^ give it a break mem you fox. Plenty of other people have used this medicine in the exact same way by buying the veterinary version. Meanwhile:

  38. flyingduk

    A message to lying duck. Are you aware that: People caught impersonating a doctor or nurse face up to three years in jail or a fine of up to $60,000 after federal, state and territory governments agreed on the need for tougher punishment.Jul 1, 2019
    I am sure that there are authorities in Australia that would like to prosecute some cases for online impersonation. So don’t be surprised if you get a knock on the door.

    Chill mate, this is a libertarian blog, we are all adults here, if you don’t wish to use my info, you are free not to. If you really think I am impersonating a physician, i would STRONGLY URGE you to report me to the ‘relevant authorities’. As I am a licenced physician, I can only benefit from you doing so. On the other hand, I HAVE told you that I am a licenced physician, hence your claim that I am not could be construed as defamatory. Is this really a road you wish to travel?

  39. Perfidious Albino

    I don’t know if anyone checked out ScoMo’s social media feed in the hours after his ‘mandatory’ and ‘I invented no jab, no play so you know I’ll do it’ brain-snaps, but he was inundated by unusually many thousands of very unhappy Australians. No surprise he pulled his head in quick as.

  40. Mater

    Ok. So what’s the new exit strategy?

  41. mem

    lyingduk
    #3557795, posted on August 23, 2020 at 8:32 pm
    A message to lying duck. Are you aware that: People caught impersonating a doctor or nurse face up to three years in jail or a fine of up to $60,000 after federal, state and territory governments agreed on the need for tougher punishment.Jul 1, 2019
    I am sure that there are authorities in Australia that would like to prosecute some cases for online impersonation. So don’t be surprised if you get a knock on the door.

    Chill mate, this is a libertarian blog, we are all adults here, if you don’t wish to use my info, you are free not to. If you really think I am impersonating a physician, i would STRONGLY URGE you to report me to the ‘relevant authorities’. As I am a licenced physician, I can only benefit from you doing so. On the other hand, I HAVE told you that I am a licenced physician, hence your claim that I am not could be construed as defamatory. Is this really a road you wish to travel?

    It’s not up to me. The authorities constantly monitor sites such as this and may or may not pick up your online impersonation as a doctor and, if they do, you will be up the creek without a paddle, or in this case without a stethoscope. I am providing sound advice for your own benefit.

  42. Tel

    1) Ivermectin blocks a protein on the nuclear membrane called ‘Importin’. It is postulated that this protein is being used by the virus to enter the host cell nucleus, with deleterious effects
    2) Ivermectin blocks the interaction of a viral ‘spike protein’ which is being used to bind to the host cell CD147 receptor with immunosuppressive effects.

    And Ivermectin has a mild anticoagulant effect … which is interesting when you consider that much of the damage Covid causes come from micro-clots, usually collecting in the lung capillaries. Incidentally, hydroxychloroquine also acts to reduce blood clots. I suspect that’s more of a convenient bonus than a primary mechanism.

    The other thing is the Zinc ionophore property, suggesting that Zinc could be doing most of the work. The list of things that Zinc does for the immune system is as long as your arm and most doctors won’t even talk about that … although at least now they take the trouble to check Zinc levels every so often.

  43. flyingduk

    The other thing is the Zinc ionophore property

    Yep, was just reading

    ‘ Ivermectin, antiviral properties and COVID-19: a possible new mechanism of action Emanuele Rizzo’

    and he mentions that 2 Ivermectin molecules joined end to end might be a cation ionophore, same as HCQ. I wasn’t aware of that. It means there are actually 3 possible modes of action.

  44. flyingduk

    It’s not up to me. The authorities constantly monitor sites such as this and may or may not pick up your online impersonation as a doctor and, if they do, you will be up the creek without a paddle, or in this case without a stethoscope. I am providing sound advice for your own benefit.

    give it a rest Mem, you are starting to sound like a school kid. This blog is better than that and you are ruining the discussion for the others. If you really have genuine concerns, have the site moderator contact me (they have my email) and i will send him my Annual Practicing Certificate.

  45. flyingduk

    I’m not familiar with all the trolls here (I-am-P aside) … is Mem a regular troll or is this a one off?

  46. The Beer Whisperer

    It’s not up to me. The authorities constantly monitor sites such as this and may or may not pick up your online impersonation as a doctor and, if they do, you will be up the creek without a paddle, or in this case without a stethoscope. I am providing sound advice for your own benefit.

    Stick it up your arse, Mem, whoever’s shit-filled sock puppet you are. Microaggressions dressed up as concern will be met here with justified contempt, and you are worthy of as much as possible.

    Why is it that morons like you feel the need to downplay effective treatments for a pandemic? What do you get out of leftist oppression against the welfare of people? Thank you for proving once again that leftism is a disease of the mind, every bit as contagious as Covid-19.

  47. Chris M

    is Mem a regular troll or is this a one off?

    She’s gone to find the manager. And look for a Bex.

  48. flyingduk

    She’s gone to find the manager. And look for a Bex

    Of course, if i really was a physician, i would know that Bex (Asprin-Phenacatin-Caffeine) was taken from the market because it caused renal damage – the caffeine was addictive, inducing people to consume too much of the Aspirin, which in combination with Phenacatin, damaged the kidney 😉

  49. Squirrel

    In the bit of the Morrison press conference which I saw, the normally deadpan Dr Kelly appeared slightly dismayed at what his fearless leader had just said about compulsion, and looked as if he wanted to say something which would stop Morrison from painting himself into a rather dangerous corner.

    The forthright comments from the AMA may well be because they realise that doctors would be near the front of the queue for injection with a rushed vaccine and might, for instance, be told “no jab, no Medicare rebate”.

    If people are musing about the liability of Victorian ministers and officials for the quarantine stuff-up, then similar questions would surely have to arise about a stuff-ups in a compulsory (or almost so) vaccination campaign.

  50. Michael Cunningham aka Genghis Cunn

    flyingduk, following your use of a horse medication, are you or are you not a neigh-sayer? 😉

  51. Isn’t the seasonal flu shot only up to 40% effective if that and also only lasts about 3 months. In some countries, only the vulnerable are suggested to get the seasonal flu shot. If the C-19 vaccine is similar effectiveness, then people would have to queue up every 3 months for their shot! The pharmaceutical companies can’t believe their luck.

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