Victorian democracy to be formally abolished

In the history of dictatorships, the “state of emergency” never ends – and must always be extended:

Victoria has recorded 116 new coronavirus cases and 15 deaths, as Premier Daniel Andrews announced his Government will seek to change laws so that Victoria’s state of emergency can be extended by another 12 months

Mr Andrews said while the current state of emergency was due to end on September 13, it was clear it would be needed well beyond that time.

“Whilst we’d all love this to be over by the 13th of September, which is when the Act says the state of emergency must end, that simply won’t be the case,” he said.

 
The real motivation here is that the Premier’s approval rating is high (because everything’s “free”) and normal parliamentary democracy is a hindrance to Labor maintaining its grip on power – permanently.

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113 Responses to Victorian democracy to be formally abolished

  1. HT

    Six months was more than enough to pass laws according parliamentary rules, debate and accent. Hopefully the Upper House tells him to fuck off..

  2. Hay Stockard

    Thin edge of the wedge. Social credits next. It will appeal to Labor voters that Victoria is turning into the same sort of shithole they called home.

  3. HT

    And, BTW, rescind the damn law that gave him dictatorship powers for six months to begin with >:(

  4. Ozman

    Venezuela. New State of Australia.

  5. Bruce in WA

    When this all began, a friend said to me that he believed it would be more than two years before Australia opened its borders and possibly up to four years before it allowed international cruise ships in port.

    I laughed … then.

  6. Beachcomber

    Covid-1984
    The Ministry of Peace (Health).

    Australia is at war with a deadly virus. Australia has always been at war with a deadly virus. Australia will always be at war with a deadly virus.

    The Ministry of Truth – Big Brother is protecting you.

  7. Some History

    Ha ha. From Chris Snowdon

    I think it was Clive James who said the problem with Australians wasn’t that they were descended from prisoners but that a lot of them were descended from prison officers.

  8. Crazyoldranga

    Shot off an email to my local “member” Kim Wells. I don’t expect an answer but at least I am on the record opposing this extension.

  9. mem

    No,no,no. There will be nothing left in this state. What is happening for many people is inhuman. We are prisoners in our own homes, flats and apartments. We have no way of objecting to what is happening. We are told by the media that most people are happy with this arrangement. Well show me questionnaires or broad surveys that have been undertaken to justify this action. And no we don’t want an online survey that has been rigged to get the results dictator Dan has requested. The people that are dying and who have died, are primarily the elderly with other terminal health issues. Dans propagandists try to tell us otherwise but we know the truth from the statistics. He and his incompetents let the virus get into health and aged care and now he tries to cover this by blaming everyone else. He is a madman and needs to be removed from office.

  10. Grumpy Old Libertarian

    The Dear Leader was also talking on TV about how we would be wearing masks in 35 degrees over summer.

    Where is the opposition? Why does Scott Morrison not use withholding federal money as a way to bring this dictator in line? Victorians are being completely abandoned to this tyrant.

  11. Tim Neilson

    Crazyoldranga
    #3558394, posted on August 24, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    I emailed [email protected] , Leader of the Opposition in the Legislative Council.

  12. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Derryn Hinch seems to think it would be a good idea if Dan Andrews was allowed to just do whatever he wanted..

  13. Dr Faustus

    Where is the opposition? Why does Scott Morrison not use withholding federal money as a way to bring this dictator in line? Victorians are being completely abandoned to this tyrant.

    Morrison is enjoying much the same political protection as Maximum Leader Andrews.

    Hardly likely to encourage full and free political examination in Victoria when he has a tiny parliamentary majority and Team Albanese locked up in a cupboard under the stairs in Canberra.

    The lack of anguish all round, in all Australian parliaments and through the commentariat, lets you know that suspension of participatory democracy is not any sort of issue to the political class.

  14. John64

    Hopefully the Upper House tells him to fuck off.

    For interstate Cats, the Liars don’t have a majority in the Victoriastan Upper House – they hold 17 of 40 seats with a licorice-all-sorts crossbench of 12. So they need 4 onside.

    Chairman Dan said the matter is being dealt with by his “Crossbench Liaison Committee”.

    You can bet that the bribing currently underway will be spending most of the spare change left from his $23 billion Belt and Road bailout loan from the CCP.

  15. Robbo

    First there was the “temporary” State of Emergency and now we have Andrews calling for Parliament to support legislation to extend it permanently. Never mind the weasel words of the extension only being until some time in 2021 because all Victorians by now know that you cannot believe anything that comes out of that lying bastards mouth.
    What next for Victoria if that extension occurs? Can we expect to see concentration camps established somewhere remote in the bush? Will Victoria become like China, that has a government that is so attractive to Andrews, where people who openly disagree with the orders of their political masters suddenly aren’t seen around any more.
    Andrews and his gaggle of misfits do not, fortunately, have the numbers in the Upper House so can we expect the majority in that Chamber to tell him to shove his State of Emergency extension where the sun don’t shine?
    The time is well overdue for Victorians to stand up and tell Andrews and his cronies that they have taken their controlling lunacy well beyond what is reasonable and what is needed. I refuse to be punished because Andrews fouled up and through his gross incompetence allowed the Chinese virus to spread around the State.

  16. feelthebern

    Remember, when Disco Dan said “just the tip”, he was lying.

  17. Lee

    Derryn Hinch seems to think it would be a good idea if Dan Andrews was allowed to just do whatever he wanted..

    Hinch and his fellow Dictator Dan sycophants know what they can do with themselves, albeit physically impossible.

  18. If the Federal Government’s funding for Jobkeeper etc was taken away it would be interesting what the Polls would say about the lockdown in VIC. Victorian lockdown is being subsidised by the rest of the states.

    Meanwhile no civil servants or Ministers have lost their jobs whilst all VIC politicians and civil servants are getting the most generous pay rises in the country.

  19. feelthebern

    What liver is Hinch onto now?

  20. Struth

    No poll can be trusted.

    Trust you should now forget about.

    And no one should have believed a word of the MSM for years now.

    I don’t reckon Dan is popular all all.
    Commos around the globe stage their popularity, their propaganda departments, the MSM helping sell the lie.

  21. pat

    what the climate mob couldn’t achieve via CO2, they have achieved via the CoV2 scam – namely the destruction of the developed economies:

    VIDEO: 24 Aug: Sky News Australia: Victoria state of emergency to be extended by 12 months
    https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6183906297001

    Dan’s man – dated from google result:

    16 Sept 2019: LinkedIn: Why Climate Change matters for Public Health
    by Brett Sutton, Chief Health Officer, Victoria
    The Industrial Revolution brought new challenges to health including overcrowding, dangerous working conditions and poor, often deadly, air quality…
    Working conditions and environmental protections are fundamentally improved in higher income nations, although the challenge in lower and middle income nations remains substantial…

    But there is one threat that was not part of public health thinking before the industrial revolution – that of climate change. The current climate emergency is the single greatest threat to global health into the future. Already we are seeing the effects from increasing severity and frequency of heatwaves; extreme weather events including flooding and drought; threats to water quality and security; threats to food security, employment and mental health with drought and floods. There’s increased risk of food poisoning with higher temperatures and also the risk of vector-borne disease as mosquito populations establish themselves over more traditionally temperate areas. Then there are the very significant changes globally as rising water levels and extreme weather threatens to displace populations from low-lying areas and areas with weak infrastructure. These climate displaced may even occur in Australia…

    I hope in my role as Chief Health Officer that I can help to raise awareness of the significant threat of climate change and the central place that public health has in seeking solutions as well as improving adaptations to protect ourselves. My branch worked hard to incorporate climate change thinking into Victoria’s Public Health and Wellbeing Plan. The plan addresses ‘tackling climate change and its impact on health’ with advice and guidance for local government, the health sector and other stakeholders in both mitigating and adapting to climate change. Part of the process of awareness-raising is in demonstrating that we can all individually play a role that helps improve our personal health while contributing to better planetary health. These videos and associated information can be found at Better Health Channel info on Climate Change. Every contribution, small or large, counts.

    My branch had also made a submission to the WA Parliamentary inquiry on Climate Change and looks forward to the report in March 2020. And the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee, comprising all Chief Health Officers or Chief Medical Officers in Australia, has the health issues of climate change firmly on its work agenda. There’s much more to be done, of course, including finalising the Department of Health and Human Service’s Adaption Action and Emissions Reduction Plans as laid out in Victoria’s Climate Change Adaptation Plan.

    But we have to ensure that the growing threats to health from our changing climate are front and centre in our thinking and actions into the future. As Chief Health Officer I have both a moral and a statutory obligation to protect Victorians from threats to health and wellbeing. So climate change is always in my thinking. I hope it can be in yours too.
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-climate-change-matters-public-health-brett-sutton?articleId=6579141366427856896

    PICS: 14 Jun: ABC: How a family tragedy shaped Brett Sutton’s journey to become Victoria’s Chief Health Officer
    ABC Radio Melbourne / By Kristian Silva
    Climate change and other concerns
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-14/brett-suttons-discusses-early-life-and-the-pandemic/12351972

  22. John64

    What liver is Hinch onto now?

    No 3

  23. Iampeter

    Victorian democracy to be formally abolished

    Not really. He is just implementing what the majority want.
    This is democracy in action.

  24. cuckoo

    How long before Dan is giving four-hour speeches about wreckers and saboteurs and unspecified foreign infiltrators? And that henceforth the official language of Victoria will be Swedish?

  25. Rex Anger

    Not really. He is just implementing what the majority want

    You are remarkably desperate to hammer this teope, aren’t you trolly-kins?

    The rugged and forthright individualist, who smears collectively as his first resort…

    Shame he has no Provision or Legislation or Speech to Parliament or videos if mass lockdown Suporter Rallies to back up his lies. Only Bugmen documents, threats, fines and demonstrated hypicrisy in the State Government permitting IamALittleTyrant’s fellow travellers have their copycat BLM protests in Melbourne…

    This is democracy in action.
    Absolutely, IamALittleComrade. Very democratic…

  26. Lee

    Victorian democracy to be formally abolished

    Not really. He is just implementing what the majority want.

    Your mask slips again, IamALeftistShill.
    Defending a far-left premier (Andrews) by inference.
    I never voted for Andrews and never will, nor support his policies.

  27. John of Mel

    This is from SA, but I have a feeling all states, probably, have made similar changes to Emergency act by now.
    Take a look at section 25A – page 33:

    Without derogating from section 25, an authorised officer
    may, for the purpose of ensuring compliance with any
    direction under that section, remove a child from any
    premises, place, vehicle or vessel to a place of residence of
    the child or to a hospital or quarantine facility, as the
    authorised officer thinks fit (and may, in doing so, use such
    force as is reasonably necessary).

  28. The BigBlueCat

    Iampeter
    #3558487, posted on August 24, 2020 at 2:38 pm
    Victorian democracy to be formally abolished

    Not really. He is just implementing what the majority want.
    This is democracy in action.

    What is the evidence for this? There has been no referendum or plebiscite regarding the lockdown or the state of emergency/disaster. At best, all we have is vox-pop, and I wouldn’t claim that as conclusive research.

    And while I know there is a case to manage the transmission of the virus by wearing masks, the question rightly resides in the province of whether or not the government of the day should require mandatory mask-wearing, and if curfews and lockdowns have had any real effect on virus management, especially considering where these outbreaks have had the most damaging impact (aged care homes if you didn’t know).

    I agree that it’s democracy in action since the ALP has the majority numbers and was asked by the governor to form a government. But to state “He is just implementing what the majority want” is something you cannot prove.

  29. Rob MW

    The real motivation here is that the Premier’s approval rating is high (because everything’s “free”)…………..

    So let me get this straight; even if the principal governing palliative care is a dismal failure socialist Dan has a high approval rating – 415 dead 23/08/2020. What the fuck are voters on, the man should have been de-sacked by now.

    Grey nomads might want to avoid Vic as a matter of principle.

  30. OUTRAGED

    Ah, well, Victorians voted for this thug and it appears that many reckon he’s doing a great job. Of course, he’s O.K. with his fat salary tipping into his account on a regular basis.

  31. TPL001

    Crazyoldranga and Robbo,

    Spoke to one Legislative Council member the other day. He is very concerned about the onset effects of this lockdown (suicides, businesses, mental health, etc.). Andrews has the numbers in the Legislative Assembly, but he feels that if an extension is going to happen it will require the cross benches to stop it in the council. I emailed all members in the Legislative Assembly and Legislative Council. And I will hit them again!

  32. Lee

    But to state “He is just implementing what the majority want” is something you cannot prove.

    Substitute Trump for Andrews, then I am certain he would be doing a U-turn on his “he is just implementing what the majority want”, BBC.

  33. sfw

    Just emailed all the upper house members except for the Labor ones, there is this petition going around too, I signed and chucked in $7. Don’t know if it will help. Just can’t believe how accepting the Libs both in Vic and Commonwealth have been, we’re doomed.
    https://www.change.org/p/daniel-andrews-resign?recruiter=11675906&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&recruited_by_id=5137d910-d09d-012f-6f58-4040ea65fa16&utm_content=fht-23146667-en-au%3A2

  34. Dinky

    You know my parents’ & my grandparents’ generations went through a lot of hardship. They went through two world wars, a pandemic & a depression. They were determined to spare future generations those ordeals and largely succeeded.

    But the post WW2 generations are weak & self centered. They don’t know real hardship & prefer safety over liberty because it’s too much hard work.

    It makes me think of a line from the movie the Dark Knight Rises where, many years after Batman has successfully brought peace to Gotham, the villain called Bane physically beats up Batman and says to him “Peace has cost you your strength. Victory has defeated you.” (Sorry for the pop culture reference)

  35. Anonandon

    I’m a Victorian but I’m not sure for how much longer. If he gets back in in 2022 I think that is it for me. A huge part of the productive economy is shut down. Most of the non-productive part of the economy continues. Almost every person I know thinks he is doing a good job. It’s doing my head in.

  36. Lee

    Almost every person I know thinks he is doing a good job. It’s doing my head in.

    It’s funny, everyone I know (including myself) think he is doing a terrible job.

  37. sfw

    Anonandon

    What makes you think there will be an election in 2022? If he gets this he will just keep deferring elections until people forget we once had them, or they will be of the kind where he always gets 99% of the vote.

  38. sfw

    Lee you must move in circles without public servants, teachers, welfare recipients etc. Nearly to a man they love him.

  39. incoherent rambler

    What makes you think there will be an election in 2022?

    Due to the emergency, elections will be temporarily replaced by opinion polls.

  40. rickw

    Shot off an email to my local “member” Kim Wells. I don’t expect an answer but at least I am on the record opposing this extension.

    Same! I said that I was presuming that the State of Emergency would end as scheduled under the current laws and would be peacefully be working of that basis/ expectation.

  41. Lee

    Lee you must move in circles without public servants, teachers, welfare recipients etc. Nearly to a man they love him.

    Actually quite a few of them are welfare recipients (but not on JobKeeper!), sfw, and one is a teacher, and all are to the right of centre politically, even the teacher!
    By the way, I think those on JobKeeper are incentivised to support Andrews and the lockdown as long as possible.
    All the more reason Morrison should never have brought it in in the first place, and should scrap it immediately.

  42. Terry

    So Victorians, if not this, then what exactly must Tyrant Dan do before you march into Spring Street and re-take democracy from those that have stolen it?

    Where is the Governor? If she cannot or will not sack a tyrant, or refer the question to the people, then why should that role persist?

    Clearly, the subsequent treason trials will need to be held interstate, since the Victorian bench is stacked.

    What a mess.

  43. gafa

    If the Federal Government’s funding for Jobkeeper etc was taken away it would be interesting what the Polls would say about the lockdown in VIC.

    No. The problem with this is that it punishes the people on Jobkeeper who were working in perfectly fine jobs until the Government stepped in and destroyed their jobs and companies, through no fault of the “jobkeepers” themselves, who were suddenly just told they were not essential and were disposable.
    Why send them further to the scrap heap?

    Meanwhile no civil servants or Ministers have lost their jobs whilst all VIC politicians and civil servants are getting the most generous pay rises in the country.

    These are the elites that need to be made to really feel and share the pain, along with the Teachers, Police, CFMEU and other comrades of the Politburo…they far outweigh the poor old jobkeepers in numbers, costs and influence.
    Until these elites are also “in this together” there will be no critical mass to end all these draconian measures.

  44. Boambee John

    Cuckoo

    And that henceforth the official language of Victoria will be Swedish?

    More likely Chinese, with Arabic the “official” second language?

  45. John A

    I have just fired off this email to my local member (on the government side)

    Dear …
    I am writing to you today about this quote from the Premier’s press conference:


    Victoria has recorded 116 new coronavirus cases and 15 deaths, as Premier Daniel Andrews announced his Government will seek to change laws so that Victoria’s state of emergency can be extended by another 12 months…Mr Andrews said while the current state of emergency was due to end on September 13, it was clear it would be needed well beyond that time.“Whilst we’d all love this to be over by the 13th of September, which is when the Act says the state of emergency must end, that simply won’t be the case,” he said. 

    The whole point of the six month limit on a declared state of emergency is to prevent the abuse of the democratic Parliamentary process and to ensure proper accountability to the Legislative Assembly and Council and ultimately the people of Victoria.
    I urge you to press upon the Premier the importance of re-convening the Parliament fully and of the Premier and Health Minister facing up to proper Parliamentary scrutiny for the second wave outbreak of the virus.
    Since the number of cases is clearly declining as seen in this set of statistics and graphs: https://www.covid19data.com.au/recoveries it would seem to be more logical for the Premier to play his political games in the House with good-looking results to hand.
    The first stage should be the IMMEDIATE removal of the Stage 4 curfew and 5km restrictions, the restoration of the 10-20 person limits at venues and then the removal of the requirements for wearing masks.
    The second stage, as soon as the Parliament can pass the regulations, would be the lifting of the poisons declaration on HCQ and ivermectin so that they can be used with zinc and antibiotics as treatment in the early stages of cases, as soon as symptoms appear. This should be accompanied by maintaining the strict quarantine requirements upon those who do test positive for Covid-19 but releasing the rest of the people of Victoria from such draconian, dictatorial requirements.
    The Premier keeps telling us that most Victorians are doing the right thing. Well and good, but then he contradicts himself by imposing blanket restrictions upon everyone – treating us like children who can’t be trusted.
    Six months is quite enough time to have dealt with the virus, as we see in other States.

  46. AH

    I’d already emailed my Legislative Council representatives before this announcement. Sadly, it looks like Mr Andrews could easily get the four seats he needs, or even that the Liberal party could cave in. The Liberals have been completely useless thus far so I would somewhat surprised to see them stand against this. But to get four votes out of eleven cross benchers won’t be too hard when it includes the following:
    3 Justice Party (Hinch’s party)
    1 Greens
    1 Animal Justice
    1 Sustainable Australia
    1 Transport Matters
    1 Fiona Patten (former Sex Party)

    We’ve got two LDP and a shooters and fishers member who might vote against, but that’s not enough.

  47. notafan

    Nice letter John.

    Please send it to the upper house cross bench too.

  48. nb

    The BigBlueCat, #3558507 asks:
    ‘What is the evidence for this?’ in relation to the alleged popularity of Andrews.
    Indeed.
    Anonandon, #3558528 says:
    ‘Almost every person I know thinks he is doing a good job. It’s doing my head in.’
    Lee, #3558536 replies:
    ‘It’s funny, everyone I know (including myself) think he is doing a terrible job.’
    An election would be fun.
    In the meantime, maybe the words hydroxychloroquine, zinc, ionophore, quercetin, ivermectin, azithromycin, doxycycline, MATH+ might reward some investigation. However, of course, science has reached new pinnacles, with politicians and government employees with the most to gain from particular outcomes now the ultimate arbiters of fact. I am reminded of a weighty tome linked to from my university’s website that showed how Einstein’s relativity was not in accord with Marxian dialectics, hence Einstein was wrong.

  49. notafan

    I will be blunt though;

    letters to Parliamentarians have to be as short as possible and I would refrain from giving medical advise.

  50. Iampeter

    Defending a far-left premier (Andrews) by inference.

    Nope. Nor could you infer that from what I said.
    Quite the opposite actually.
    Unlike most here I have actual grounds on which to oppose what Andrews is doing. It’s not clear what the issue is for statists like yourself, who want the government regulating everything from where someone lives to who they get to do business with. You guys should be celebrating Andrews.

    Lee you must move in circles without public servants, teachers, welfare recipients etc. Nearly to a man they love him.

    Most people in business are agreeing too, even if it means they go under.
    Like I said in other threads, Andrews is doing what the dominant, altruistic/self-sacrificial, morality in our culture demands and has majority support as a result.
    This is actually another area where the opposition from people like CL isn’t clear. As a good Christian you should be supporting Andrews too.

    In other other words, religious conservatives should be supporting Andrews’ actions on both moral and political grounds. Your opposition to what he’s doing doesn’t make any sense on any level.

  51. John A

    Thanks for the link Ceres.

    I have twelve emails for the cross-benchers (ye gods, they outnumber the Coalition!)

  52. Rex Anger

    nlike most here I have actual grounds on which to oppose what Andrews is doing. It’s not clear what the issue is for statists like yourself, who want the government regulating everything from where someone lives to who they get to do business with. You guys should be celebrating Andrews.

    This, dear Cats, is what is referred to in the businessvas ‘doubling down’

    IamALittleFascist has collectively smeared, and is now either trying to defend himsrlf from massed opprobrium, or is just going for as much general annoyance as his little trollyvsrlf can generate.

    All still without proving his slander.

    As a good Christian you should be supporting Andrews too.

    In other other words, religious conservatives should be supporting Andrews’ actions on both moral and political grounds. Your opposition to what he’s doing doesn’t make any sense on any level.

    And more Petey Smears to go with the Petey Projection. What a nasty and moronic little man. He’s a tyrant after Comrade Dan’s own Red heart. No wonder IamAShill loves him and seeks to defend him by smear and projection…

  53. Some History

    16 Sept 2019: LinkedIn: Why Climate Change matters for Public Health
    by Brett Sutton, Chief Health Officer, Victoria

    Sutton, like pretty well all in Public Health, are mouthpieces… agitators for the [deranged] World Health Organisation (Public Health HQ) agenda… the WHO’s social-engineering “vision” for the world.

    https://imgur.com/galzXxk

  54. sfw

    An upper house member Wendy Lovell replied to my email but said nothing. She included a link to a survey and asked me to complete it. She’s a Liberal and won’t commit herself either way so I would say the Libs will take whatever side they think the people prefer, democracy isn’t important.
    https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/63H7FDY

  55. Tim Neilson

    Iampeter
    #3558597, posted on August 24, 2020 at 4:33 pm
    Unlike most here I have actual grounds on which to oppose what Andrews is doing. It’s not clear what the issue is for statists like yourself, who want the government regulating everything from where someone lives to who they get to do business with.

    Poor old sub-cretinous mental defective.
    Still mired in the excrement of his own inability to think except in cartoon-like binary dogmatic absolutist generalised labels.
    Still unable to understand that individuals jointly owning land through an artificial legal entity aren’t doing anything wrong by enforcing exclusive possession.
    Still unable to explain any way in which people can’t “do business” with anyone else as a result of policies which people on this site generally support.

    Poor old failure.

    As a good Christian you should be supporting Andrews too.

    In other other words, religious conservatives should be supporting Andrews’ actions on both moral and political grounds. Your opposition to what he’s doing doesn’t make any sense on any level.

    Poor old zero IQ ignoramus.
    Go on. Articulate what you believe to be the relevant Christian doctrine that means we “should be supporting” Andrews’ actions. Give us your grounds for believing that what you articulate really is Christian doctrine.
    In other words, why don’t you beclown yourself even more spectacularly than you already have.

  56. rickw

    Without A2A.

    All that stands between you and poverty or death.

    Is the decency of Daniel Andrews and The ALP.

  57. Anonandon

    But to get four votes out of eleven cross benchers won’t be too hard when it includes the following:
    3 Justice Party (Hinch’s party)
    1 Greens
    1 Animal Justice
    1 Sustainable Australia
    1 Transport Matters
    1 Fiona Patten (former Sex Party)

    Then it is a done deal. Hinch and the Greens will support it.

  58. Lee

    Defending a far-left premier (Andrews) by inference.

    Nope. Nor could you infer that from what I said.
    Quite the opposite actually.
    Unlike most here I have actual grounds on which to oppose what Andrews is doing.

    My grounds for opposing “what Andrews is doing” are: I never voted for him; I despise the man personally and his policies and politics, in particular his handling of this virus. You don’t get to decide what my opinions are or should be, despite your massive conceit.

    It’s not clear what the issue is for statists like yourself, who want the government regulating everything from where someone lives to who they get to do business with.

    When have I ever said am I a “statist”?
    In fact the less government regulation the better; the less government interference with individuals the better.

    Like I said in other threads, Andrews is doing what the dominant, altruistic/self-sacrificial, morality in our culture demands and has majority support as a result.

    Yet, when I and others condemn or criticise Andrews, you deliver a polemic against us, not him, f..k your “actual” or “political grounds.”

  59. notafan

    Greens may have issues with compulsory vaccinations so push that.

    And another reason not to talk about possible alternative remedies, too much TDS on the cross bench.

    You’ll get ignored.

    Democracy democracy democracy

  60. notafan

    Eighteen months without an opposition and an non accountable government.

    Democracy democracy democracy

  61. notafan

    Greens

    Keeping the bastards honest

  62. notafan

    Socialist alliance and Brandt were very angrey about the treatment of the tower people THEIR constituents.

    Don’t let Dan lock people in their homes again!

  63. notafan

    Punishing Victorians for the failure of the labour government.

    Thousands of lives ruined

    500 000 out of work.

    How long with kids be kept of of school?

    The damage done will be generational.

    People being denied so called elective surgery.

    Cancer patients forced into truncated treatment regimes.

    And what next another twelve months, then another,?

  64. calli

    As a good Christian you should be supporting Andrews too.

    That’s because

    Iampeter
    #3315688, posted on February 7, 2020 at 11:08 am
    @Tom, religion is “an infantile emotionalism that makes rational thought and reason impossible.”
    You’ve perfectly illustrated my point about advocating for the very thing you claim to be opposing and all in the same breath too.
    Until conservatives can let go of religion, they can’t fight the left.
    Until you realise that Christ IS the devil, you won’t be able to support capitalism, which requres a complete rejection of Christian ethics.

    Makes perfect sense.

  65. notafan

    There is nothing self sacrificial about Andrews.

    What personal cost is he bearing?

    He has a large comfortable home a huge salary his children s education will continue with barely a hiccup.

    He closed down all so called non essential businesses at the drop of a hat.

  66. Anonandon

    Iampeter is a sh!t stirrer. Don’t fall for it.

  67. Tom

    Daniel Andrews is a poor man’s Benito Mussolini. The only tragedy is that, unlike Mussolini, he won’t be strung up by the mob because in Victoria the mob also wants to be Mussolini.

    As Jeff Kennett more or less said today, Andrews viscerally hates wealth and prosperity because it is produced by capitalism’s freedom. Andrews wants the proletariat confined to the poverty of an antipodean eastern Europe that he, as a member of the elite, will be free to rule with an iron fist.

  68. MACK

    At the next election, Victorians will have the sledgehammer and Danny will be the peanut.

  69. There is no doubt that Andrews is a thug. Plus, he appears to have lost the ability to think. No matter what the circumstances in front of him, his response is always the same. But the good news is that the pandemic is running out of steam. It is already over in the northern hemisphere. It has probably a little way to run yet in Australia (and a lot yet to go in NZ, thanks to the PM who could chew an apple through a rabbit proof fence) Infection is happening and it doesn’t take much infection to stem its spread. This talk of 60% infection before herd immunity is achieved is way over the top. Meanwhile restriction levels do nothing other than extend the time taken for the virus to peter out. Economically and socially hard restrictions are disastrous. Andrews will never know or understand this. If he is in office long enough as the deaths disappear he will think it was all due to him. He is not only a thug, he is a torpid and delusional thug.

  70. Squirrel

    If the daily infection numbers keep dropping as they have today, the fear campaign will be increasingly difficult to maintain – particularly when most know (even if they’re in a degree of denial about the fact) that the problems started with quarantine stuff-ups not with people going about their everyday lives.

    When the daily numbers do settle down, the state opposition really should start talking about the sort of state public sector that a shrunken and slowly recovering state economy can support.

    That would, of course, be met with the usual bulldust which claims that every person on the public payroll is doing vital work, but they would have to push back against that, and point to the many examples of well-paid office jobs which are very remote from delivering important state services to the public.

    Those who have been smugly cheering on over-the-top restrictions need to understand there is an economic price to pay for all of that.

  71. Crossie

    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
    #3558438, posted on August 24, 2020 at 2:04 pm
    Derryn Hinch seems to think it would be a good idea if Dan Andrews was allowed to just do whatever he wanted..

    Not surprised at all about Darryn’s tyrannical streak.

  72. Kneel

    “Unlike most here I have actual grounds on which to oppose what Andrews is doing.”

    No, you don’t – you should have no complaint and make no opposition.

    Your stated position is that Gov shouldn’t stop people going about their business.

    Your stated position is that any restriction on such business makes the proposer a leftist and a supporter of full on communism.

    And yet, you insist the Gov “protect your rights”, even when this involves preventing people going about their business.

    Therefore, by your own standards, you are a leftist and full-on communist, and have no complaint about any restrictions Gov chooses to impose.

    Clearly then, you fully support borders, immigration control and lockdowns – by your own standards, you must.

  73. Crossie

    BrettW
    #3558470, posted on August 24, 2020 at 2:25 pm
    If the Federal Government’s funding for Jobkeeper etc was taken away it would be interesting what the Polls would say about the lockdown in VIC. Victorian lockdown is being subsidised by the rest of the states.

    Every one of us taxpayers is being fleeced by ScoMo so he can finance the test case south of the border. He must think that it’s the way to go with wayward populations. This is not taking care of us but showing how much the politicians really despise us. If he really cared about all Australians he would punish The Dictator, not his victims.

  74. Crossie

    Iampeter
    #3558487, posted on August 24, 2020 at 2:38 pm
    Victorian democracy to be formally abolished

    Not really. He is just implementing what the majority want.
    This is democracy in action.

    If it’s true why not put it to the vote?

  75. Rabbi Putin

    Maybe the best hope for Victoria now is that the recent international press continues apace and the global spotlight is really pointed on Dictator Dan. Then the weasly socialists that infest Vic can no longer hide behind the fig leaf of virtue.

  76. Chris

    #struth. You are spot on polls are rigged only 1000 people are members of it always same people and the polls are owned by labour unions… Victorians need to protest I am over it these politicians that think we work for them and make decisions affecting our lives with no input from the citizens whatsoever. It’s outrage and a breach of our human rights including the right of movement. Pm said months ago he will keep ausies in the country so we can spend the 60 billion dollars a year normally spent overseas on our travel industry and economy which they have ruined with their power trips and constitution breaches. How dare they decide how or where we should spend our money. We are the only country in the world in lockdown and unable to travel. My Uk mates currently holidays in turkey. They are playing the citizens for a bunch of mugs time to stand up to these muppets and show them it’s not ok.

  77. mh

    Liberty Quote
    Until you realise that Christ IS the devil, you won’t be able to support capitalism, which requires a complete rejection of Christian ethics.

    Iampeter

  78. Makka

    Where is the opposition? Why does Scott Morrison not use withholding federal money as a way to bring this dictator in line? Victorians are being completely abandoned to this tyrant.

    You are watching the UNiparty in action. Both parties want this and Scummo is funding the destruction of Victoria.

  79. Catfeesh?

    MACK, I fear that the majority of Victorians will turn that sledgehammer on themselves and let the peanut get away with it.

  80. rickw

    There is no doubt that Andrews is a thug. Plus, he appears to have lost the ability to think. No matter what the circumstances in front of him, his response is always the same.

    I am starting to think that Andrews has actually had a serious mental short circuit. He has literally lost the ability to think, the only lever within his mental grasp is simply more of the same.

    He is now so severely debilitated that the “less” function has even broken, now it’s just “more” even if there is no factual basis for it.

  81. twostix

    Greens have been infected by malevolent technocratic bugmen, the days of the nimbin set shying away from vaccines in their bamboo houses are long gone, now they’re represented by Science!(tm) cultists.

    Won’t find much help there anymore.

  82. Ceres

    And what next another twelve months, then another?

    My fear as well. It will be near election time for the dictator or maybe the thug will find a way to postpone even that. He will fight tooth and nail, the mongrel.

  83. Slayer of Memes

    Denial Andrews proving once and for all that this COVID mess is a great reminder that there’s nothing more permanent than ‘temporary’ government intervention…

    Worse still is that Derryn Hinch has announced that his ‘Justice Party’ will vote in favour of giving Dan all the power he wants, so there’s 3 of the 4 votes he needs… and that’s without counting the Greens falling into line like the good little ‘useful idiots’ that they are…

    Farewell to the rest of you Catallaxians, I know I’ll be among the first to be sent to the gulags…

  84. Iampeter

    My grounds for opposing “what Andrews is doing” are: I never voted for him; I despise the man personally and his policies and politics, in particular his handling of this virus. You don’t get to decide what my opinions are or should be, despite your massive conceit.

    But don’t you support regulating trade and immigration, for example? Aren’t you a Trump supporter?
    If yes, then the above response from you doesn’t make any sense.
    So I’m not saying “what” your opinions should be, I’m just saying your opinions are incoherent and contradictory.

    When have I ever said am I a “statist”?
    In fact the less government regulation the better; the less government interference with individuals the better.

    Uh-huh. If that was the case we’d be seeing posts from you opposing Trump, regulating trade, immigration and so forth. Can’t remember seeing any of that.
    Like most conservatives you spout talking points about “less government interference” and then turn around and support more government interference then even some progressives, all without even realizing what you’re doing. This is why conservatives are the worst leftists. You don’t even understand your own positions.

    Your stated position is that Gov shouldn’t stop people going about their business.
    Your stated position is that any restriction on such business makes the proposer a leftist and a supporter of full on communism.
    And yet, you insist the Gov “protect your rights”, even when this involves preventing people going about their business.

    Nope, my position is super clear and you’ve clearly read it but not understood it. This is a level of total confusion that means you’re not ready to be in these conversations.

  85. Rex Anger

    Hmmm…

    Gate-keeping, Petey Smears and Petey Projections, all the while stating that Petey is the only pure one who knows politics (hint IamDishonestWithMyDefinitions: Anarchy is not a form of Dictatorship and vice versa. Stupid boy, dictatorships are highly organised and hyper-legalistic out of necessity. This is polar opposite to anarcby, which is the total absence of law and legal authority). And everyone who disagrees with him is a dumb leftist who doesn’t understand the positions Petey has refused to enumerate and explain.

    How remarkably ‘rational’ and ‘individualist’ behaviour this is from our resident fascist. Defending fellow fascists, technocrats and assorted bugmen by the same sorts of collective smears and contempt they reserve for lumpenproles like us.

    IamActuallyABugman strikes again. Voetsek troll. You know nothing and understand even less.

    Next time Lee, just stick the boot in. Don’t bother explaining or rationalising yourself, or use any form of dialectic around the troll. Just kick him. He’ll get snippy and then go away.

  86. Terry

    ‘3 Justice Party (Hinch’s party)
    1 Greens
    1 Animal Justice
    1 Sustainable Australia
    1 Transport Matters
    1 Fiona Patten (former Sex Party)’

    What a hodgepodge of Leftist filth – WTF are Victorians thinking?

  87. Rex Anger

    @ Terry-

    I thought thinking was outlawed in Melbourne?

    Pennies to pounds that is the electoral base from which your melange of madness was mixed.

    Same as every policy that screwed up the Country NSW I grew up in was hatched from themachinations of pollies who were rose up out of the Green Algae blooms of Inner-City Sydney…

  88. Lee

    When have I ever said am I a “statist”?
    In fact the less government regulation the better; the less government interference with individuals the better.

    Uh-huh. If that was the case we’d be seeing posts from you opposing Trump, regulating trade, immigration and so forth. Can’t remember seeing any of that.

    Virtually every country in the world supports those measures, why single out Trump?
    Why would I out pick out PDT when most of the world’s leaders are doing the same thing?
    And it was going on in the U.S. long before Trump was born.
    I don’t give a stuff if foreigners have to follow procedures before being allowed into Australia or any country. (The analogy of believing in regulation of immigration must mean you believe in lockdowns is a logical fallacy, too ridiculous for words.)
    You can’t tell me that someone from Bullduststan has as much right live and work in Australia as an Aussie citizen, without our giving him or her our consent to move here first.
    It’s pointless arguing with someone like you who takes leftist talking points and supports them near 100%

  89. Iampeter

    Virtually every country in the world supports those measures, why single out Trump?

    I’m saying if YOU support these things then YOU’RE a statist.

    I don’t give a stuff if foreigners have to follow procedures before being allowed into Australia or any country.

    Then you shouldn’t give a stuff if you have to wear a mask. Or have a curfew. Or not be able to open your business. You don’t give a stuff if the government arbitrarily violates peoples rights.

    The analogy of believing in regulation of immigration must mean you believe in lockdowns is a logical fallacy, too ridiculous for words.

    That’s because you don’t understand the fundamentals.

    You can’t tell me that someone from Bullduststan has as much right live and work in Australia as an Aussie citizen, without our giving him or her our consent to move here first.

    You can if you know what “rights” actually are and if are not a leftist that believes some collective “our” needs to give individuals permission to exercise their rights.

    It’s pointless arguing with someone like you who takes leftist talking points and supports them near 100%

    It’s pointless because you’re the one spouting leftist talking points, but you don’t know what you’re talking about so you don’t even realize it.

  90. Lee

    You can’t tell me that someone from Bullduststan has as much right live and work in Australia as an Aussie citizen, without our giving him or her our consent to move here first.

    You can if you know what “rights” actually are and if are not a leftist that believes some collective “our” needs to give individuals permission to exercise their rights.

    You’d be quite happy for, say, a billion Chinese to just come into Australia and there is nothing we can do about it, because that’s what you’re essentially saying.
    Send me your address, and I’ll move into your house.
    Otherwise you’re denying me my “liberty.”
    I have never seen anyone use such shit arguments as IamALeftistShill.

  91. Rex Anger

    That’s because you don’t understand the fundamentals.

    What fundamentals, IamABugman? You bang on about how we lesser beings do not ‘understand’ them, yet never have you ever actually elucidated what they are.

    Do you understand the fundamentals? Are there even fundamentals to be understood in the first place? Or is this Petey Bluster and Petey Bluff to defend Petey Smears and Petey Projections?

    You can if you know what “rights” actually are and if are not a leftist that believes some collective “our” needs to give individuals permission to exercise their rights.

    What are rights, bugman? You also bang on about these incessantly and how da gummint oughta protect ’em and nuffink else, but you can never have a ‘rational’ discussion about them. How terribly bugman-like of you- All labels and emotive bluster, but no intellectual or philosophical depth.

    It’s pointless because you’re the one spouting leftist talking points, but you don’t know what you’re talking about so you don’t even realize it.

    @ Lee- Congratulations on the screechier “No, U!” you just provoked. You are now firmly in charge of the engagement. Keep hammering the point and insult him directly. His rhetoric is very weak. When he throws his final tantrum, screams that you are a ‘nutjob’ or ‘babbler’ and states he will no longer engage with you, then you have carried the day. Keep at it!

  92. Rex Anger

    @ Lee- Congratulations on the screechier “No, U!” you just provoked. You are now firmly in charge of the engagement. Keep hammering the point and insult him directly. His rhetoric is very weak. When he throws his final tantrum, screams that you are a ‘nutjob’ or ‘babbler’ and states he will no longer engage with you, then you have carried the day. Keep at it!

    You’d be quite happy for, say, a billion Chinese to just come into Australia and there is nothing we can do about it, because that’s what you’re essentially saying.
    Send me your address, and I’ll move into your house.

    Well done, that man!
    Otherwise you’re denying me my “liberty.”
    I have never seen anyone use such shit arguments as IamALeftistShill.

  93. Rex Anger

    Oops- Semi-flubbed the blockquote…

    Well done, that man

  94. Megan

    I have never seen anyone use such shit arguments as IamALeftistShill

    Constantly makes the most basic beginner mistake of conflating mindless blather with an actual argument. Also suffers from the Overconfidence Effect with zero to be overconfident about. Which contributes to the mutton* stubborn refusal to learn and makes all that blathering utterly predictable and boring.

    But it’s fun to watch the constant tripping over the shoelaces and keeps my logic and argument skills sharp identifying the various cognitive biases he tosses out.

    *apologies to elderly sheep

  95. Rex Anger

    Which contributes to the mutton* stubborn refusal to learn and makes all that blathering utterly predictable and boring…

    *apologies to elderly sheep

    That’s baaaaaaaaaad… 😛

  96. Kneel

    ” Virtually every country in the world supports those measures, why single out Trump?

    I’m saying if YOU support these things then YOU’RE a statist. “

    Ah! A globalist and a supporter of unfettered capitalism.
    Oh how you’d squeal if you actually got what you say you want.

  97. NoFixedAddress

    Iampeter
    #3559423, posted on August 25, 2020 at 12:31 pm

    IAP lurves Hillary Clinton

  98. Tel

    Assad must go!

    He is attacking his own people!

  99. Iampeter

    You’d be quite happy for, say, a billion Chinese to just come into Australia and there is nothing we can do about it, because that’s what you’re essentially saying.

    That’s not a description of anything. It’s like the argument of an environmentalist trying to create some imaginary scenario to try and counter a position you don’t actually have any counter to.

    Send me your address, and I’ll move into your house.
    Otherwise you’re denying me my “liberty.”

    That’s not analogous to immigration. This is what I mean when I said you don’t know what the fundamentals at play are. You don’t even have any political arguments for your positions and don’t even know where to begin.
    Bottom line is that you’re a statist, even though you don’t realize it because you don’t know what you’re talking about, so your claim to not be one is incorrect.

    Also, it’s funny how you only focus on the immigration bit. The fact you also support tariffs is just ignored. Harder to pretend you’re not a statist on that one, huh?

    Constantly makes the most basic beginner mistake of conflating mindless blather with an actual argument.

    Which is funny coming from someone who has nothing but mindless blather (my description which you’ve copied from my posts) instead of any actual arguments. In fact, aside from supporting embarrassingly clueless fools, you personally have NEVER posted ANYTHING resembling ANY kind of argument. That makes you even worse.

  100. Kneel

    “Bottom line is that you’re a statist, even though you don’t realize it because you don’t know what you’re talking about, so your claim to not be one is incorrect.”

    Well, I know you are, but what am I?

    Seems to be at about your level…

  101. Lee

    You’d be quite happy for, say, a billion Chinese to just come into Australia and there is nothing we can do about it, because that’s what you’re essentially saying.

    That’s not a description of anything.

    Sorry that plain English goes over your head.
    You’re the one who has repeatedly stated you are in favour of open borders – ipso facto you will get millions of foreigners flooding into the country, and no government can stop them, by your own dogma. But I notice like all true leftists, you want to ignore (and certainly won’t discuss) the consequences of your own politics.
    You have certainly avoided the point, which you always do.

    It’s like the argument of an environmentalist trying to create some imaginary scenario to try and counter a position you don’t actually have any counter to.

    That’s your so-called “analogy”, comparing my argument to environmental or Green filth?

    Send me your address, and I’ll move into your house.
    Otherwise you’re denying me my “liberty.”

    That’s not analogous to immigration.

    Because you say so?
    LOL
    Funny how an analogy or comparison is only valid if you say so.
    It’s far more analogous than the negative one you make of me above.

    This is what I mean when I said you don’t know what the fundamentals at play are. You don’t even have any political arguments for your positions and don’t even know where to begin.

    Who died and made you supreme arbiter, oh Great One?

    Bottom line is that you’re a statist, even though you don’t realize it because you don’t know what you’re talking about, so your claim to not be one is incorrect.

    Even if that were true (I actually believe in absolute minimum government interference in individuals’ lives, despite your desperate attempts to paint me as what I am not – to quote your own words from a couple of months back to someone else here “you don’t know what I think”), at least I am not a follower of a fruitcake, selfish political ideology like Randism.

    By the way, nearly every country in the world has tariffs; get used to it!

  102. Rex Anger

    You’d be quite happy for, say, a billion Chinese to just come into Australia and there is nothing we can do about it, because that’s what you’re essentially saying.

    That’s not a description of anything. It’s like the argument of an environmentalist trying to create some imaginary scenario to try and counter a position you don’t actually have any counter to.

    Send me your address, and I’ll move into your house.
    Otherwise you’re denying me my “liberty.”

    That’s not analogous to immigration

    IamNotSelf-Aware at his very finest. Well done, trolly-kins! 👍

    . This is what I mean when I said you don’t know what the fundamentals at play are. You don’t even have any political arguments for your positions and don’t even know where to begin.
    Bottom line is that you’re a statist, even though you don’t realize it because you don’t know what you’re talking about, so your claim to not be one is incorrect.

    Another No, U! there, Lee. He’ll wind up and flounce at you soon enough…

    And again with the use (but without clarification) of ye word ‘fundamentals’ there, IamBugman. Why will you not teach us whatnthese ‘fundamentals’ are, so we can at least understand how badly we beclown ourselves relative to you?

    Or is it just a new and better-sounding buzzword for Y0oz DuNnO NuFFinK ‘BoUt P0liTiKz!

    Which is funny coming from someone who has nothing but mindless blather (my description which you’ve copied from my posts) instead of any actual arguments. In fact, aside from supporting embarrassingly clueless fools, you personally have NEVER posted ANYTHING resembling ANY kind of argument. That makes you even worse.

    Well done Mem! That is one troll-flounce to you. Talk about Petey Projections…

  103. Iampeter

    Well, I know you are, but what am I?

    Seems to be at about your level…

    Uh-huh. Classic Cat. Your clueless nonsense has been explained, you have no more mindless talking points left, so just fall back on projection.
    Insert roll-eyes here.

  104. Rex Anger

    Uh-huh. Classic IamPeter. Your clueless nonsense has been explained, you have no more mindless talking points left, so just fall back on projection

    Fixed your latest eructation of appalling wrongology for you, my dear trolly-kins…

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