Open Forum: August 29, 2020

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3,393 Responses to Open Forum: August 29, 2020

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  1. zyconoclast

    “Black-on-Black Crime” Is a Dangerous Myth

    This op-ed addresses how white supremacists have long promoted the idea that Black people are inherently more violent.

  2. feelthebern

    There should be a statue of Kennett that all Victorians should have to give thanks to once a year.
    Kennett to Victoria was the same as Kerry Packer to the Australia cricket team.

  3. mh

    He cries every day

    Michael Moore
    @MMFlint
    Someone needs to pull the fire alarm NOW. Where are the stories about Trump gaining on Biden? Below’s a poll from Fri in Michigan. Last week Trump pulled within 4 pts of Biden. Now in one poll Trump is AHEAD of Biden in MI 47-45. Yet so many Dems convinced Trump’ll lose. DANGER!

  4. Roger

    “Black-on-Black Crime” Is a Dangerous Myth

    Are the victims mythological too?

  5. zyconoclast

    The NFL is planning extensive content around social injustice for Week 1 of the regular season, sources told ESPN.

    Among options discussed by the league and players union, according to a source involved: Players reading personalized poems and delivering first-person vignettes based on experience with social injustice. These stories could be incorporated into game-day broadcasts.

  6. Nick

    I’ll give credit to Moore, he at least isn’t blind to the obvious in this case.

  7. Bruce of Newcastle

    Kennett sold some of those assets at 20x EV/EBITBA.
    A nose bleed valuation.
    Simply amazing that price.

    A bloated, padded state government corporation filled to the gills with bruvvers and maaates?
    I think anyone with a brain would work out the E bit in the P/E had a lot of upside.
    I also mentioned the State Bank of SA this morning.
    But Numbers ignored me, sigh.
    It was a mystery.

  8. notafan

    Try to remember that you are birdie.

    Three weeks from what date?

  9. Nick

    based on experience with social injustice.

    Yeah, an unjust society that pays a black man millions to play football.

  10. Leigh Lowe

    Kennett sold some of those assets at 20x EV/EBITBA.
    A nose bleed valuation.
    Simply amazing that price.

    Yep.
    Jeff got several Alan Bonds in that little episode.
    OK, a multiple of 20 might fly if you had some upside.
    But a utility being squeezed between top-line price controls and a heavily unionized workforce which is almost impossible to restructure?
    The only upside is growing the size of the pie via, say, immigration ponzi schemes … no, wait.

  11. bespoke

    Steve trickler
    #3567956, posted on September 1, 2020 at 7:01 pm
    LAST WEEK IN CULTURE #9 21:47

    You’ll shake your head in disbelief at some of the clowns featured here.

    Stuff the idiots the fish and and racetrack is what matters.

  12. feelthebern

    Bruce, the assets have been passed around a lot since then.
    Even with interest rates a lot lower, they have never changed hands at the price Kennett sold them at.
    Packer got a bill out of AB.
    Kennett got about 10bill more out of the original buyers than he really should have.

  13. Roger

    “Because so many members of Victoria Police from the upper ranks to the lower have been involved in those departures, over such a protracted period of time, it is apt to look for reasons why.”

    Because they’re a corrupt bunch of arseholes. Shut it down, Fire the lot. Local shire police forces.

    With their comanding officers subject to public election.

  14. feelthebern

    Totally snap Leigh Lowe.
    Totally.

  15. Leigh Lowe

    BoN, I worked in close contact with one of those privatised utilities.
    The old government work practices were almost impossible to break down.
    Example below ..

  16. mh

    Michael Moore says he cries every day of the Trump presidency.

    He should post it online. I’d watch.

  17. Makka

    So a bit of charity should be extended here. Its not that they locked down in a situation of total ignorance

    No, it was willful ignorance and arse covering with lies, come what may. From the very outset. This path has led to Dan out of control in Vic with Scummo smiling in the background.

  18. feelthebern

    The key with buying regulated assets, is you need to buy them at a huge discount to their replacement value.
    Never happens in Australia for obvious reasons.
    Uncle Warren got the call post Enron to buy chunks of their network for about 50% of their net asset value.
    Nice work if you can get it.

  19. Arky

    Michael Moore says he cries every day of the Trump presidency.

    ..
    You’d cry too if you couldn’t reach around far enough to wipe your own arse.

  20. JC

    mh
    #3567961, posted on September 1, 2020 at 7:03 pm

    He cries every day

    Afford him some respect. The obesity worked out early in 16 Trump could very well win that and was warning Crooked.

  21. vlad

    There should be a statue of Kennett that all Victorians should have to give thanks to once a year.

    He did some good things and the state would be in much better shape if he had stayed Premier uninterrupted to the present day.

    But I kneel and give thanks to no politician.

  22. zyconoclast

    Ron Jeremy Charged With 20 More Counts of Sexual Assault
    Amended complaint includes accusations that span 14 years, from alleged victims aged 15 to 54

    Adult film star Ron Jeremy is facing 20 additional sexual assault charges involving 13 women, the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office announced Monday.

  23. Graeme M Bird

    Perhaps an apology is in order before you post here?

  24. I can’t believe some left wing concern troll elsewhere on this esteemed blog defending the dead sex offenders in Kenosha and attacking the kid.

    No wait, I can.

  25. Zatara

    The NFL is planning extensive content around social injustice for Week 1 of the regular season, sources told ESPN.

    The results are going to be uglier than they can imagine. You’d think ESPN, who has experience in watching their ratings tank when they went woke, would have warned them.

    It’s dead simple. The kind of person who loves professional football despises having wokeness shoved into their faces.

    Expect fans to turn off the NFL and find something better to do on Sunday afternoons.

  26. calli

    But, but…Kennett was arrogant! The unforgivable sin for a politician.

    Forget lies, incompetence, corruption. Mere bagtelles.

    Confidence will get you nowhere.

  27. Cassie of Sydney

    “There should be a statue of Kennett that all Victorians should have to give thanks to once a year.”

    I think Kennett’s arrogance led to his demise. Also, he left a vacuum that the Victorian Libs have never managed to fill. You could argue that since Kennett’s defeat over twenty years ago the Liberals in Victoria have turned into timid little grey mice.

  28. Cassie of Sydney

    “calli
    #3568002, posted on September 1, 2020 at 7:26 pm
    But, but…Kennett was arrogant! The unforgivable sin for a politician.

    Forget lies, incompetence, corruption. Mere bagtelles.

    Confidence will get you nowhere.”

    True…but the same thing happened to Newman in QLD a few years back. The problem for “confident” Liberal leaders is that they go up against..not just Labor but also the unions and the MSM.

  29. Leigh Lowe

    BoN.
    Example.
    Bloke answers an after-hours call-out.
    Falls off his ladder and breaks his leg.
    Phone in truck.
    Laying there for hours.
    Eventually discovered and hospitalised in a bad way.
    Finally a couple of nuisances in HO management tumble to it … “Where was his mate? All these call-outs are supposed to be two man ops. WTF was going on?”
    Lots of shuffling of feet and looking at the floor.
    The practice everywhere was an unofficial roster. The minor callouts would be answered by one bloke, but two would get paid, and they would take it in turns.
    But everyone in that office held the line. Just shrug and say “dunno” until it goes away.
    I could quote scores of these bullshit practices.
    What stinks is, that if the same thing happened today and the bloke bled out on the ground, they will go after the CEO who lives 200 kms away and is being told that all ops have multiple staff attending.

  30. Shy Ted

    And on a complete change of subject, had my first go on an electric bicycle today. After the first few confusing minutes and running over a bunch of oldies whose deaths will be from Covid19 and bicycle collision, but mostly Covid19 to keep up the statistics, it was fun. It was faster, easier and a lot more fun. Hills were no longer hard. You do have to pedal to keep the electrics pumping and that’s the exercise but in a few minutes I was sold. Now got to go shopping for a blokey e-bike. Prolly dispense with a helmet, the cops will never catch me, I’ll just take to the pavements.

  31. Makka

    dotty, they were advertising for volunteers for vax trials on the Vic tellie yesterday. Made a point of saying you would be paid. Can’t recall exactly the mob.

  32. kaysee

    Catallaction Club 📝
     
    Supporting Individuals and Groups via Donations (Update 1)
     
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    Listing in alphabetical order.
     
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    Rite ON!
     
     
     
     

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  33. notafan

    One old boomer Jesuit. This video all over twitter

    Hardly surprising. I’m sure he’s not the only Christian being a monumental blm prat.

  34. notafan

    Shy Ted.

    The ones with a big basket at the back are the most manly.

  35. Bruce of Newcastle

    Shy Ted – You can’t compete in the Tour on an electric bike.
    Frogs are unhelpful like that.

  36. rickw

    There should be a statue of Kennett that all Victorians should have to give thanks to once a year.

    If he hadn’t of rolled over on the NFA, definitely.

    But seeing as he did. Fuck him.

  37. Knuckle Dragger

    NBA ratings, whilst falling over themselves to out-hand-wring everyone else: Tanking.

    MLB ratings, whilst falling over themselves to out-hand-wring everyone else: Tanking.

    NFL: ‘This is an industry best-practice business model worth following.’

  38. zyconoclast

    NBA ratings, whilst falling over themselves to out-hand-wring everyone else: Tanking.

    MLB ratings, whilst falling over themselves to out-hand-wring everyone else: Tanking.

    NFL: ‘This is an industry best-practice business model worth following.’

    Sportsball must die.

  39. Shy Ted

    If wymmins were cats… It’s a gif, click on it to make it move.

  40. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Its one thing to sell this stuff. But we ought to have been smart enough to get a lot of it back at bargain basement prices when the time was right.’

    I think we’re all forgetting, amid the confusion, that the melting temperature of the SEC was 91.3 degrees Kelvin.

  41. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Sportsball must die.’

    You monster.

  42. Knuckle Dragger

    Ha.

    The City of Churches tardathon is beating up Horeforn.

  43. Farmer Gez

    Nick
    #3567932, posted on September 1, 2020 at 6:41 pm
    Isn’t Sept 1 the plague of rabbits according to the Faulty Calendar of Doom ?

    Farmers around here had to spray to kill a plague of Army Worms.
    The prophesy is fulfilled.
    “Yea did they come from the depths of the earth and feed upon the living.”

  44. vlad

    Graeme M Bird

    Perhaps an apology is in order before you post here?

    Is that shmuck back? What’s he calling himself this week?

  45. notafan

    I’m trying to remember.

  46. rickw

    Donut, intense, great work, staying in the fight:

  47. rickw

    TooBob takes up welding.

    Lucky the grinder was within reach!

  48. Bruce of Newcastle

    Sportsball must die.

    Wokeball oddly hasn’t been the attraction that the networks expected.
    The advertising dollars are wandering off elsewhere.
    RA could tell them about that.

    Rugby braces for $15m in cuts (Paywallian, today)

    Rugby Australia is bracing for $15m in cuts following the appointment of Adam Foulsham, a man described as “tough as old boots” to the role of Chief Operating Officer.

    Someone should give Raelene an AO for services to sport.
    Then explain to her afterwards what that service was. 😀

  49. jupes

    I normally wait until round 6 before picking multis, but this year I have waited until round 15.

    Go Hawks, Eagles and Tigers!

    LOL. Idiot!

  50. Arky

    they will go after the CEO who lives 200 kms away and is being told that all ops have multiple staff attending.

    ..
    Well maybe the CEO should get off his arse and put in place a system of checking.
    Someone needs to go on random inspections and physically eyeball the number of persons on a callout.

  51. Herodotus

    Respect someone just because they went to Vietnam to peel spuds?
    Fuck off.
    There are real soldiers, highly decorated, doing it tough now because of dodgy political machinations.
    If the government can’t give robust ROE, don’t send our best anywhere. If they are sent, don’t do this to them later when those they are up against have no compunction about rules, no uniforms, no government who can be held responsible for their actions, and in the final analysis are just terrorists.

  52. Leigh Lowe

    Knuckle Dragger

    #3568029, posted on September 1, 2020 at 7:44 pm

    Ha.

    The City of Churches tardathon is beating up Horeforn.

    What rule changes will Clarko need next week?

  53. rickw

    Epoch Times, 12:05, Australian traitors identified:

  54. Knuckle Dragger

    Awaiting Clarko’s presser.

    McPoloPony on Zoom.

  55. Leigh Lowe

    Well maybe the CEO should get off his arse and put in place a system of checking.
    Someone needs to go on random inspections and physically eyeball the number of persons on a callout.

    Arky.
    What would have happened in that scenario would have been a series of tip-offs, threats against the internal auditor, yada-yada.
    Then you have to pay some dick from KPMG a shitload to run audits.

  56. Knuckle Dragger

    Great clip rickw. Saw it this morning.

    Not only stayed in the fight, led it and finished it.

  57. I think we’re all forgetting, amid the confusion, that the melting temperature of the SEC was 91.3 degrees Kelvin.

    Very droll.

    Bird bait.

  58. Knuckle Dragger

    So the Thunder Thighs RC said Mokbel may not have gotten a fair trial. Duh.

    And that Fatty Ashton perpetuated the culture allowing a bunch of know-nothing, never-caught-a-crook ex-Fed entire top rung of Vicpol management to let a practising barrister run as a gig on her clients. Duh.

    But they’re all about personal accountability. Here’s the Police Minister, Lisa Neville and current big dog Shane Patten reading a statement to the assembled media in person before taking questions:

    ‘“It was an indefensible interference in the lawyer/client relationship, a relationship that is essential to the proper functioning of the criminal justice system and to the rule of law.”’

    Wait, wait. Hang on. That was a ‘Victoria Police spokeswoman’ in a media release.

    Fuckwits. Fuckwits.

  59. Leigh Lowe

    Knuckle Dragger

    #3568053, posted on September 1, 2020 at 8:06 pm

    So the Thunder Thighs RC said Mokbel may not have gotten a fair trial. Duh.

    Do you reckon Mokbel will go the full OJ Simpson and release a book …
    if I DID IT!

  60. stackja

    Voters keep electing ALP to government expecting a different outcome. Victoria Cain, Kirner, NSW Wran, Carr, WA Burke, Lawrence, Queensland Goss, Beattie, AP, Gough, Rudd, and so on…

  61. Arky

    What would have happened in that scenario would have been a series of tip-offs, threats against the internal auditor, yada-yada.

    ..
    This is the mentality that conceded our society to thugs.
    Oh, you don’t have to tell me. I have worked in dozens of different places and they were all corrupt.
    On the waterfront it was rampant drugs and theft.
    In aluminium it was rorting government schemes.
    In army it was recording diggers who hadn’t turned up on parade.
    In teaching it was Principals employing people they were rooting, skimming funds and kickbacks.
    Security? Don’t get me started.

  62. Knuckle Dragger

    More, from the Hun:

    ‘In his proposed findings Counsel Assisting Chris Winneke QC said Mr Ashton suggested the ‘pub test’ is a more acceptable standard of police conduct than the rule of law during a series of media interviews broadcast in the wake of the High Court’s 2018 judgment which blasted the force’s use of Nicola Gobbo as “reprehensible”.’

    Never locked up a crook, therefore never been inside a court or tribunal, and therefore never given evidence in anything – which was plainly evident. Which also meant he could say astoundingly stooopid things like that in the box and think nobody would draw a negative inference.

    Fuckwit.

  63. Leigh Lowe

    KD at 8:06.
    Not one fucking adult in the room to say, “OK, guys. Let’s just back the truck up a bit here. Is there just a vague chance that this could go tits-up, not least of all because the lag is a fucking egotistical coke-fuelled nutcase with a big mouth?”
    I still remember the disconnect the day I first heard it.
    “Oh a criminal lawyer has informed on a few crooks. Maybe shit they overheard in chambers or at Friday drinks. Might be a tad untidy.”

    Then it dawned on me.
    Not a lawyer.
    The lawyer.
    The crooks own defence lawyer paid to get them off is putting them in.

  64. Huck

    Rosenbaum eh?
    What’s the origin of that name? I don’t think it’s Italian

  65. Leigh Lowe

    This is the mentality that conceded our society to thugs.

    Yep, I know.
    Even if you caught these blokes rorting the system no-one was getting fired.

  66. Rose Tree? Must be German. Aryan or something.

  67. 132andBush

    A reasonable response had the public been given all the honest facts would have been int’l border closures/sea ports and robust quarantine/isolation of the elderly, then make use of effective treatments already known. Yes to social distancing and a major hygiene drive through the nation. Then, learn as we go and respond as new information comes in but no lockdowns or internal border closures needed. By embracing lockdowns our Govts set out on a path that relied on lies for the justifications to destroy the economy. It continues today.

    + 100

  68. mh

    Ricky Glazer was much better than this guy.

  69. Arky

    I still can’t decide which environment was the most corrupt, the docks or schools.

  70. Mater

    This is the mentality that conceded our society to thugs.

    Yep, I know.
    Even if you caught these blokes rorting the system no-one was getting fired.

    If you haven’t received a death threat from the union rep or shop steward, you aren’t doing your job.

  71. Huck

    A three-year funding freeze totalling $84 million,

    Just read this quote in this story in the Age.
    Which stream of mathematics puts a value on a freeze?
    How does something that never happened and was never planned to happen have any value?

  72. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Not one fucking adult in the room to say, “OK, guys. Let’s just back the truck up a bit here. Is there just a vague chance that this could go tits-up, not least of all because the lag is a fucking egotistical coke-fuelled nutcase with a big mouth?”’

    One. Ron Iddles, who said ‘This has got Royal Commission written all over it’ and stayed right the fuck away from anything to do with it until he retired.

  73. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘He’s from the Rosenbaum’s of County Cork.’

    Descended, of course, from the Black Prince.

  74. vlad

    I’m hoping Fat Tony walks. Teach the filth a lesson.

  75. Knuckle Dragger

    According to Blue Heelers Season Four, the number one, golden and unbreakable rule of dealing with a gig is knowing what its motivation is for telling you things.

    If you’re not a million percent positive, sack it and move on.

    But no.

  76. vlad

    Soros is Ashanti. And the Democrat mayors and governors promoting the violence are Soros loyalists. Now I must be wrong about one of these facts. Which one could it be?

    Piss orf, you pretentious shmuck.

  77. Huck

    Watched the Whorethorn game.
    Is there, or has there ever been a softer, more ladylike captain than Ben Stratton?
    No, didn’t think so.

  78. kaysee

    This month marks the first anniversary of a memorable speech given at the UN. In the lead up to that day (23 September), this section will be named:
     
    How daahh you? 😺
     
    One
     
    Two
     
    Three

  79. stackja

    Arky – Schools didn’t sabotage the war effort. Schools now? From what is known. Rivals wharves of the past.

  80. Knuckle Dragger

    Ben Stratton will make someone a wonderful wife one day.

  81. stackja

    I gather the VFL are playing somewhere.

  82. Huck

    Schmuck. What’s the origin of that word, I wonder?

  83. vlad

    Maybe Boris has an identity crisis going on here?

    You’re the one with a new name every week, chum.

  84. Leigh Lowe

    One. Ron Iddles, who said ‘This has got Royal Commission written all over it’ and stayed right the fuck away from anything to do with it until he retired.

    Sorry.
    Yes, Ron.
    I was talking about the Plastic Paddies in the exec suite and their meeja advisors.
    Using the logic of some here, Ron would be accused of “causing the RC” because he warned of it.

  85. Arky

    stackja
    #3568084, posted on September 1, 2020 at 8:32 pm
    Arky – Schools didn’t sabotage the war effort. Schools now? From what is known. Rivals wharves of the past.

    ..
    I suppose at least with a school, you don’t have to run a gauntlet of the world’s most ugly and clapped out whores to get to work.
    You should see what turns up when a ship docks.

  86. zyconoclast

    How did they refuse?

    ‘Scrap foreign aid!’ Britons REJECT eye-watering £20bn tax hike to fund COVID-19 recovery

    AFTER Rishi Sunak announced his proposed bombshell tax hikes on the wealthy in order to help curb the looming recession caused by the coronavirus pandemic, the British public has refused to hand over their hard-earned cash.

  87. Leigh Lowe

    Fuck.
    What is with Joe Daniher and the half-arsed round the corner goal kicking?

  88. vlad

    Its actually a new word that Boris/Vlad invented after he tried to get fellow Australians killed with anti-HCQ activism.

    Got a link to where I did that?

    And, by the way, it’s “it’s”.

  89. Huck

    No nibbles outside off.
    Well played Sir, all the discipline of an old fashioned opener.
    Might try again in an hour or so once the mania sets in.

  90. Steve trickler

    Check out Olga with that watermelon. Jesus!



  91. Leigh Lowe

    OK.
    The Gobbo RC.
    Who is going under the bus?
    .
    Christine “I had to eat” Nixon … 500/1.
    Fatty Ashton … 100/1
    Planet Cornelius … 33/1
    Simon Underhand … 10/1
    The chick from records who found Underhand’s diaries … 6/4.

  92. notafan

    Old Ozzies

    Can you release 8.03

    Please?

  93. Sinclair Davidson

    Smite – bye Graeme.

  94. Knuckle Dragger

    Diaries? What are you on?

    Those, I’ll have you know, are journals.

  95. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Smite – bye Graeme.’

    Who’s Graeme?

  96. feelthebern

    After his performance this week, I’d love oestrogen Cornelius to get a whack or 10.

  97. vlad

    Smite – bye Graeme.

    I saw that coming, though not so fast, I’ll admit.

  98. Solomia Maievska.

    Cor blimey and swoon.

    Donald Trump is making anime real.

    Those proportions belong in 2D.

  99. Leigh Lowe

    vlad

    #3568116, posted on September 1, 2020 at 8:51 pm

    Smite – bye Graeme.

    I saw that coming, though not so fast, I’ll admit.

    Bombers getting a pasting.
    Eggshells, people.
    Eggshells.

  100. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From calli at 6:49 pm:

    ” You gotta love him
    [The President] tips the bell boy.

    Looked reflexive.”

    and the third commenter says he “Called the guy by his name.”

    Some of these fellas are naturals, they know how to make the ordinary people feel good, with their innate class, style and sincerity.

  101. Knuckle Dragger

    Ahem.

    Time to move on, people.
    <==

  102. rickw

    David Hoffman, 10:20, Chicago Prudential Building – 1976 – a day in the life of the building and its occupants. (maybe peak civilisation?):

  103. calli

    What is this eggshells malarkey?

    Licepaper, glasshoppers. Do not disturb!

  104. Boambee John

    Shy Ted
    #3568027, posted on September 1, 2020 at 7:42 pm
    Public transport in Toowoomba ain’t what it used to be

    Photo of the bin chicken?

  105. vlad

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with kings—nor lose the common touch …

  106. feelthebern

    Ladbrokes leads the way !
    Trump 1.83.
    Biden 2.00.

  107. Leigh Lowe

    The committal hearing will continue tomorrow, when it is expected body camera footage of the alleged shooting will be played to court.

    That could be interesting viewing.
    You can bet that if it was damaging to Rolfe it would have been leaked by now.

  108. feelthebern

    Tope Ender, do we expect the body cam of the fatal incident to be released?

  109. Leigh Lowe

    feelthebern
    #3568114, posted on September 1, 2020 at 8:49 pm
    After his performance this week, I’d love oestrogen Cornelius to get a whack or 10.

    What a donut munching deadshit.
    “Come down hard … batshit crazy … yada, yada”.
    When tall yoofs in singlets were doing agg-burgs and carjackings at the rate of 5-6 a night, what did we get:-
    “Not much we can do … don’t get antsy … hand over the keys.”
    The fucking arseholes were setting the scene to hook into the first one who defended their home with a baseball bat and caved in one of the yoof’s skulls.

  110. dover_beach

    The biological principle holds – if it’s not growing or changing, it’s dead.

    Decomposition involves change and yet the organism is dead. Oxidation involves change and yet the object is not an organism and therefore has never been alive. The same applies to a coastline too. And so on. On the other hand, although organisms change in size, weight, and the like, there is an important sense in which they maintain their integrity over time, retain the same morphology over time, internal structure, same processes, and so on. Therefore, it’s safe to conclude that your premise and conclusion are codswallop.

  111. Leigh Lowe

    Two more very interesting lines from TE’s link:-

    The court heard Sergeant Frost had spoken with Mr Walker’s grandparents following the botched arrest attempt and agreed to allow Mr Walker to attend a funeral and memorial concert in Yuendumu if he handed himself in to police afterwards.

    The court also heard Sergeant Frost had a “challenging” conversation with a member of the Immediate Response Team, who she said she felt was “trying to take over” the operation.

    I wonder what that conversation was.
    Frost doing the cultural sensitivity bullshit, and the team not wearing it?

  112. OldOzzie

    Shy Ted
    #3568010, posted on September 1, 2020 at 7:32 pm
    And on a complete change of subject, had my first go on an electric bicycle today. After the first few confusing minutes and running over a bunch of oldies whose deaths will be from Covid19 and bicycle collision, but mostly Covid19 to keep up the statistics, it was fun. It was faster, easier and a lot more fun. Hills were no longer hard. You do have to pedal to keep the electrics pumping and that’s the exercise but in a few minutes I was sold. Now got to go shopping for a blokey e-bike. Prolly dispense with a helmet, the cops will never catch me, I’ll just take to the pavements.

    Shy Ted

    The best eMTB of 2020: We’ve compared 25 eMTBs in our biggest group test ever

    Read and Drool!

  113. Fat Tony

    vlad
    #3568079, posted on September 1, 2020 at 8:30 pm
    I’m hoping Fat Tony walks. Teach the filth a lesson.

    Oi ! Leave me out of it….

  114. The biological principle holds – if it’s not growing or changing, it’s dead.

    Not even correct.

  115. Steve trickler

    Enjoy the flight. 4:18



  116. Huck

    Geez LL, Heppel’s effort on Cole rivalled Stratton’s worst limp writer efforts.
    WTF?

  117. Candy

    Great video of Olga and the other critters, Steve T.
    Really enjoyed it.

  118. OldOzzie

    notafan
    #3568109, posted on September 1, 2020 at 8:46 pm
    Old Ozzies

    Can you release 8.03

    Please?

    Apologies for the Delay – watching Lost in Austen on You Tube

    Tony Abbott: Learning to live with coronavirus risk

    Tony Abbott, The Daily Telegraph

    This is the text of a speech delivered by former Prime Minister Tony Abbott on Tuesday at the Policy Exchange think tank in London.

    How to deal with a potential pandemic was often on my mind during four years as health minister in the Australian government of John Howard.

    In those days, hundreds of people – nearly all in East Asia and living in close contact with poultry – contracted bird flu; and about a half died.

    The fear back then was that a pandemic variant could become an even more deadly form of the Spanish flu that killed up to 50 million people, mostly between 20 and 40, in the wake of the Great War (including over half a million from a then-US population of just on a hundred million), or a supercharged version of the Asian flu that killed upwards of a million people world-wide in the late 1950s, or the Hong Kong flu that killed another million or more in the late 1960s.

    As things worked out, there was no pandemic on my watch as minister – but there was one, swine flu, in 2009, that’s thought to have killed about 300,000 people worldwide, including 191 from just under 40,000 cases in Australia.

    Perhaps surprisingly, that pandemic barely rippled the public’s consciousness.

    Still, as the minister who would have been blamed for any deficiency in Australia’s pandemic preparedness, I beefed up the National Medicine Stockpile (including one of the world’s largest holdings of anti-viral drugs), established the Australian Health Protection Committee, and made formal speeches laying out the initial plan to deal with any crisis.

    Essentially, this involved close screening at the national border (as soon as there was a widespread outbreak anywhere), strict quarantine of incoming travellers, the establishment of mobile testing and treatment teams, and designated pandemic hospitals with extra ventilators.

    I certainly envisaged the compulsory wearing of masks on public transport, and the temporary closure of places where large crowds were in close contact – like theatres, concerts and nightclubs.

    KEEPING PEOPLE AT THEIR POSTS

    But not for a moment did I ever contemplate ordering people to stay home. That would have struck me as contrary to our nature and just adding to the worries of a dire time.

    In any serious pandemic, people would naturally avoid going out unnecessarily. And where they did, it would be for some vital reason: work that couldn’t be done from home, essential supplies, and compassionate visits.

    The way I saw it, in any pandemic, the focus would be to get people to stay at their posts to keep the economy going, not to lock everything down lest disease spread, because people would be taking precautions anyway. My general view was, that avoiding as many risks as reasonably possible, people should get on with their lives even in the presence of death.

    This pandemic is not quite the one we had planned for, back then. This virus is certainly more infectious than the seasonal flu, and more deadly, but it mostly has the same victims: the very old and the very sick.

    A highly infectious and potentially deadly coronavirus was always going to be very difficult for governments to respond to, because leaders’ normal focus is both to keep people safe and to make people prosperous; yet here, for once, saving lives and protecting livelihoods did not quite go hand-in-hand; and minimising a pandemic’s risk to health could easily maximise its damage to economies.

    When reports started to emerge out of Wuhan of a surge of deaths from a strange new virus, and especially when footage emerged of people dying on trolleys in the corridors of northern Italian hospitals, a degree of panic was understandable.

    No decent government could allow its hospitals to be overwhelmed, or contemplate with equanimity a new disease predicted to kill over two million people in the United States, up to half a million in Britain, and 150,000 in Australia.

    Faced with the prospect of death on such a scale, of course governments were going to ban travel, to close places of gathering, and to order people to stay at home as far as possible.

    And with the economy in an induced coma, governments really had no choice but to subsidise wages, freeze foreclosures and scrap rules about seeking work.

    But with a coronavirus incubation of up to a fortnight, lockdown could have been for a few weeks, as opposed to a few months, while isolation and quarantine arrangements; testing, tracking and treating facilities were put in place; and suitable precautions were recommended, especially for older people; so that the health system wasn’t swamped, the economy didn’t become dependent on government support, and people were reassured that they were as safe as they reasonably could be.

    With the wisdom of hindsight, not enough attention was given to keeping the virus out of nursing homes and how to respond once cases were present. Whole societies were locked down, essentially to protect the elderly, yet the elderly were still very vulnerable once the infection was among them.

    STOPPING THE STOP-START LIFE

    Six months into the pandemic, the aim in most countries is still to preserve almost every life at almost any cost; with renewed lockdown most governments’ instinctive response to any increase in the virus.

    The New Zealand government has locked down Auckland after just four new cases, and postponed the national election with under 100 active cases.

    When new cases peaked at about 700 a day, the Victorian government put five and half million Melburnians under virtual house arrest, under curfew from 8am to 5pm, and banned at other times from leaving home for more than an hour a day, or from travelling more than five kilometres.

    For more than six months now in Victoria, under disaster and emergency declarations, homes can be entered, people can be detained, and the ordinary law of the land suspended; and the Premier now wants to extend this health dictatorship for at least another six months.

    As with the Spanish Flu state border closures, only worse, it’s been every jurisdiction for itself, in a form of “pandemic protectionism”. One Australian state with virtually no corona cases won’t admit people from another state with virtually no corona cases. States that want to admit foreign students, because they need the money, don’t want to admit Australians from another state.

    And every day, premiers and their chief health officers front the media with casualty lists, and stern warnings that it could easily get worse unless people stay in their homes and avoid each other.

    It’s a bad time, obviously, for anyone with the virus.

    It’s also a bad time for anyone who would rather not be dictated to by officials, however well-meaning; or who instinctively chafes under a policy that’s clearly unsustainable yet may be kept up indefinitely in the absence of an effective vaccine.

    Given that lockdowns can reduce disease but not eliminate it, the result is not just a stop-start economy, but a stop-start life.

    In this climate of fear, it was hard for governments to ask: “how much is a life worth?” because every life is precious, and every death is sad; but that’s never stopped families sometimes electing to make elderly relatives as comfortable as possible while nature takes its course. Likewise, people anticipating serious health problems sometimes elect not to be resuscitated.

    When a trauma victim comes into an emergency department, almost no effort is spared to keep that person alive. But when a cancer patient wants access to very expensive new drugs, governments normally ask tough questions about how much good life will be gained before making it available; and what the alternative might be.

    MAKING HARD CALLS

    So far, with Sweden the most notable exception, governments have approached the pandemic like trauma doctors; instead of thinking like health economists, trained to pose uncomfortable questions about a level of deaths we might have to live with.

    Australia’s national government has spent some $300 billion to soften the economic consequences of state governments’ enforced social distancing. Even if mandatory shut-down really was all that avoided the initially-predicted 150,000 deaths, that still works out at about $2 million per life saved.

    If the average age of those who would have died is 80, even with roughly 10 years of expected life left, that’s still $200,000 per quality life year – or substantially beyond what governments are usually prepared to pay for life-saving drugs.

    Once it was clear that a 60 per cent infection rate and a 1 per cent death rate was unlikely, shouldn’t we have started to ask whether the cure was proportionate to the disease?

    Based on the antibodies present in blood tests, the NSW Chief Health Officer has recently said that up to a half million Australians could already have been infected, most of them asymptomatic. On that basis, while our case fatality rate is close to two per cent, our infection fatality rate, would be more like one in a thousand, or zero point one per cent.

    Of course, there is still much that we don’t know (like why infections haven’t increased that much in Europe as restrictions have eased; why deaths haven’t ticked up as infections have; and why death rates seem to have fallen everywhere despite little agreement on the most effective treatments).

    And it’s sensible to err on the side of caution.

    Sometimes though, officials get trapped in crisis mode longer than they need to, especially if the crisis adds to their authority or boosts their standing.

    TOWARDS A BETTER WAY OF LIVING

    One of the surprising features of this pandemic has been the lack of published modelling from government and the dearth of officially-accepted epidemiological data, after the daunting initial predictions from the Imperial College team in London changed most governments’ strategy from herd immunity to preventing infections via drastic, compulsory social distancing.

    Along the way, official objectives have shifted from “flattening the curve”, so hospitals wouldn’t be overwhelmed, to “suppression”, to “zero-community transmission”.

    Governments have justified it as following “the expert advice”, as if this has always been clear; or as if we should be ruled, rather than merely guided, by unaccountable experts.

    Inevitably, much of the media has indulged virus-hysteria with the occasional virus-linked death of a younger person highlighted to show that deadly threat isn’t confined to the very old or the already-very-sick or those exposed to massive viral loads.

    As Sweden demonstrates, you can cop both the corona deaths and the economic costs even without the government-imposed lockdowns as people choose to travel less, to go out less and to spend less.

    But for a free people, there’s a world of difference between a course of conduct that individuals choose for themselves and one that government orders them to adopt, even if turns out to be much the same.

    There’s no doubt that lockdowns, at least initially, reassured worried populations that governments had their well-being at heart.

    A recent poll showed that only 7 per cent of Australians thought that COVID restrictions were “too tough”, while 33 per cent thought them “too lenient”. Only 11 per cent thought that “getting the economy moving” was more important than “stopping the virus’ spread”, hence most governments’ tendency to make rules rather than let people make their own judgments.

    Faced with an unprecedented challenge, governments were always going to be damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. Or perhaps: damned now if they didn’t lock down and damned later if they did.

    Because it’s clearly not possible indefinitely to keep 40 per cent of the workforce on some kind of government benefit, and to accumulate debt and deficit on a scale not seen since the Second World War, while the world goes into a slump not seen since the great depression – caused as much by governments’ response as by the virus itself.

    Almost a million people in Victoria, close to 20 per cent of the workforce, still technically have a job but aren’t actually working due to the lockdown.

    In the absence of effective treatment or a vaccine that may never come, at some point, we just have to learn to live with this virus, in ways that can be kept-up more or less indefinitely: with borders managed but open; businesses vigilant but otherwise fully operational; and normal life continuing, with more precautions, more humane ones, for the sick and elderly.

    Most of the elderly victims have died alone – without the solace of family and friends – because of the measures put in place to protect them.

    It’s the psychic damage, I fear, that will be at least as bad as this pandemic’s toll on health and wealth: people once sturdily self-reliant looking to government more than ever for support and sustenance, a “something for nothing” mindset reinforced among young people spared the need of searching for jobs, and magic pudding economics entrenched under the guise of “modern monetary theory”.

    Governments paying businesses’ wages bill for them, borrowers freed from mortgage repayments, and tenants no longer having to pay rent: none of this can last, yet every day it goes on risks establishing a new normal.

    The sooner citizens don’t have to offer police an explanation for their movements, the less anxious we will feel. The sooner the airwaves are not filled by officials telling us not to go out, not to see people, and not to shake anyone’s hand, the more resilient we will be, even if there may be some modest uptick in corona cases.

    From a health perspective, this pandemic has been serious; and from an economic perspective it’s been disastrous; but I suspect that it’s from an overall wellbeing perspective that it will turn out worst of all: because this is what happens when, for much more than a mere moment, we let fear of falling sick stop us from being fully alive.

    Now that each one of us has had six months to consider this pandemic and to make our own judgments about it, surely it’s time to relax the rules, so that individuals can take more personal responsibility and make more of their own decisions about the risks they’re prepared to run.

    For me, the recent 75th anniversary of the end of World War Two prompted this reflection: that generation: ready to risk life to preserve freedom; this generation: ready to risk freedom to preserve life.

    Yet we don’t think of our parents and our grandparents as too brave, do we; I wonder what judgment history will pass on us?

  119. Huck

    *wristed, not writer. Stupid, stupid autocorrect

  120. Tel

    Most of the elderly victims have died alone – without the solace of family and friends – because of the measures put in place to protect them.

    In many ways that’s both the saddest statement of 2020 and an excellent summary of our government health programs.

    From approx March onwards we all had a very good idea this virus was nonlinear and hit very hard against certain vulnerable groups … while being not too bad for anyone young and in good health. Medical staff, bus drivers, and other people who got higher than average doses were also hit hard. The conclusion could only be that it’s better for young people to get a low dose, get sick and get over it ASAP, while protecting vulnerable groups and ensuring medical staff get good protection. What happened was the opposite: medical staff got themselves sick and passed it on to the elderly, while young people were locked at home and prevented from building up any immunity.

    Almost every part of the official response to this virus was wrong.

    The only thing I agree with was closing the schools and putting the lessons online … but then, school should be voluntary and lessons should be online all the time … which is another issue I suppose.

  121. zyconoclast

    OldOzzie
    #3568185, posted on September 1, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    And people hassle me for not giving trigger warnings

  122. zyconoclast

    Transgender woman, 61, who gave a girl, 14, four Valium tablets at a Hungry Jack’s says she should be spared jail because her gender identity will put her at risk behind bars

    Susan Willan, 61, formerly known as David Willan, on Tuesday pleaded guilty in Geelong Magistrates Court to supplying a drug of dependence to a child.

    But Willan’s defence lawyer Thomas Edwards described the offence as a ‘momentary’ judgement lapse and argued for a community correction order, as his client would be at risk in jail due to being transgender.

  123. Farmer Gez

    Only ten thousand tested in Vic today and Soy Latte Sutton is not a happy hippy.

    It seems people are waking up to that fact that feeding the beast only makes them want more.

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