The world is laughing at us

Johannes Leak Letters Cartoon for 29-08-20 Version: Letters Cartoon (1280x720 - Aspect ratio preserved, Canvas added) COPYRIGHT: The Australian's artists each have different copyright agreements in place regarding re-use of their work in other publications. Please seek advice from the artists themselves or the Managing Editor of The Australian regarding re-use.

That’s from Johannes Leak in The Oz today, reminding me of my post on August 6: The Melbourne Syndrome. As I wrote then:

The Covid pandemic has brought on our modern version of The Stockholm Syndrome: “feelings of trust or affection felt in many cases of kidnapping or hostage-taking by a victim towards a captor.” We now have the Melbourne Syndrome, which I come across versions of every day:

Feelings of trust or affection felt during a lockdown by its victims towards their most authoritarian political leaders.

Since Melbourne has now implemented the hardest lockdown at the hands of the dumbest and most incompetent political leader in the world, I believe that Melbourne should have the honour of bearing the name of this widely observed form of insanity.

Was asked to leave the park today sitting in the sun with a friend. Very friendly and all, but still. And not only do we have the hardest lockdown possibly anywhere in the world, we also have the most incompetent since things have only managed to get worse and we are far and away the state with the worst record in Australia. And just a reminder of what we are being asked to endure (this may be a bit old, but if so, they have only been tightened):

  • The “state of emergency” in Victoria has been upgraded to a “state of disaster”, meaning police can now enter your home to carry out spot checks even if you don’t give them permission and they don’t have a warrant.
  • Between the hours of 8 p.m. and 5 a.m., you’re not allowed to leave your homes except for work, medical care and caregiving.
  • Outside those hours, you may only leave your home for four reasons: shopping for food and essential items, care and caregiving, daily exercise and work. “We can no longer have people simply out and about for no good reason whatsoever,” said Kim Jong Dan.
  • Daily exercise can only take place within a 5km radius of your home and cannot last longer than an hour.
  • You cannot exercise in groups of more than two, even if they’re members of the same household.
  • Apart from daily exercise, you are only allowed to leave your home once a day for essential supplies and food.
  • In the whole of Victoria, you cannot buy more than two of certain essential items, including dairy, meat, vegetables, fish and toilet paper.
  • Schools have closed again, with all Victoria school students returning to remote learning from Wednesday (except for vulnerable children and children of permitted workers). Childcare and kindergarten will be closed from Thursday.
  • Golf and tennis venues, which were open, have now been closed.
  • Weddings will no longer be allowed from Thursday, and funerals will be limited to 10 people.
  • Face nappies anywhere outside your home have been mandatory for people in metropolitan Melbourne since July 22nd, but that rule has now been extended to the entire state of Victoria.
  • You cannot have visitors or go to another person’s house unless it is for the purpose of giving or receiving care. However, you can leave your house to visit a person if you are in an “intimate personal relationship” with them, even during curfew hours. So no “bonk ban”.
  • If you have a holiday home or were planning a holiday outside Melbourne, tough cheese. You must remain in the city for the next six weeks.
  • The maximum fine for breaching a health order currently stands at $1,652, but Kim Jong Dan said he would have more to say about penalties later today, i.e. he’s going to increase them.

Meanwhile in Sweden …

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132 Responses to The world is laughing at us

  1. a reader

    East Berlin on the Yarra. Dictator Dan is horrific and must go. However Marshall Law and Gutless Guttwein aren’t doing things well for Team Blue either

  2. squawkbox

    I used to annoy Russians of my acquaintance for fun by saying they were a nation of slaves who always licked the boots of whoever kicked them hardest. Now extended to Victorians.

  3. Matt

    Meanwhile in Sweden …
    – they have more than 7 times the deaths of Victoria
    – their economy is struggling
    – they aren’t remotely close t0 herd immunity

    But sure, let’s hold them up (still) as the success story.

  4. Crossie

    Matt
    #3564710, posted on August 30, 2020 at 7:12 am
    Meanwhile in Sweden …
    – they have more than 7 times the deaths of Victoria
    – their economy is struggling
    – they aren’t remotely close t0 herd immunity

    But sure, let’s hold them up (still) as the success story.

    Their economy doesn’t have a ScoMo giving them other people’s money.

  5. notafan

    Where did you get the food rationing from?
    That’s not in the legislation. I’ve read it.

    Some chains have limits on some food items. Others do not.

    No limits at independent groceries, butchers and greengrocers.

  6. Craig Strange

    And in Queensland, the elite privileged control freaks continue to drive up costs for the poor and encourage use of reusables that increase the spread of infectious diseases.

    First they came for the incredibly efficient thin plastic bags, now they move on to straws and cutlery

    https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/proposal-to-ban-the-single-use-plastics-gets-green-light/news-story/2cc941abd73c28685445cea5274be94e

  7. MACK

    Buy a horse – you’re still allowed to travel to feed it, and in fact you have to, or get charged with animal neglect.

  8. Carpe Jugulum

    But sure, let’s hold them up (still) as the success story.

    Damn site more successful than Mogadishu on the Yarra

  9. Ladyredneck

    Meanwhile, the CDC released a report this week, quietly. It states that only 6% of deaths in the USA can be attributed to covid only. Thats something a little over 9200 people.

  10. mareeS

    MACK, there is still a law against riding furiously on a public thoroughfare. Even horses and riders are under the whip hand of the law.

  11. duncanm

    Matt
    #3564710, posted on August 30, 2020 at 7:12 am

    Meanwhile in Sweden …
    – they have more than 7 times the deaths of Victoria
    – their economy is struggling
    – they aren’t remotely close t0 herd immunity

    Uh huh. Yep, they’re really struggling less than 1 death/day from Covid at the moment.

  12. Mother Lode

    Has there been even the slightest hint, from anyone, of the slightest of the grimmest regret for stripping freedoms away?

    All I have seen is people knitting their brows while announcing now restrictions as if to impress us with their determination.

    Without the former they will adorn themselves with more and more power at the cost to an increasingly powerless populace – they will not see the problem as long as they tell themselves it is for the people’s’s own good.

    Nor will they feel it so pressing to restore the freedoms taken, especially once they start to see ‘dangers’ elsewhere to save us from.

  13. Matt

    Yep Duncan, we normally just focus on today and ignore the past around here. So by your logic, when we are back to 1 death/day in Victoria we’ll be a success like Sweden too.
    For the record, Sweden has had 320 deaths since 1 July, Victoria had 490 over the same period.
    But Sweden had 5,500 up til then compared to Victoria’s 20.

  14. Boxcar

    Here’s a link to the Victorian Wuflu Enquiry.
    That’s Jill um Hennessey, Attorney General, clearing up just a bit.
    She was forced to acknowledge that the government not taking any of its illegal fines to court.

    Go for it.

    If the link doesn’t work, don’t worry, it will be in the papers one day.
    https://youtu.be/ANo7zJK2-BA

  15. KartiyaReality

    “The most logical, the most prudent thing to do, is to simply accept the fact that we have a need for rules … they’re not about individual liberty, they’re about public health.”

    Daniel Andrews

    “The goal and the way have to be determined by the care for the preservation of our people’s health in body and soul. The right of personal freedom steps back in the face of duty of the preservation of the race.”

    Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, p.348 New York: Reinel and Hitchcock, 1940

    And the band plays on ….. and on

  16. Matt

    Yep Duncan, we normally just focus on today and ignore the past – that’s pretty standard around here. So by your ‘logic’, when we are back to 1 death/day in Victoria we’ll be a success like Sweden?
    For the record, Sweden has had 320 deaths since 1 July, Victoria has had 490 over the same period.
    But Sweden had 5,500 up til then compared to Victoria’s 20.

  17. Ceres

    Thanks Lady Redneck for the link. Very interesting indeed. Andrews and Sutton need to release data here in Vic showing comorbidities but it doesn’t fit their narrative of hysteria.

  18. min

    Steve , As I am a vulnerable oldie living in an upmarket retirement apartment, I have been in a lockdown since March. Apart from a couple of weeks of relief in July? that has meant no visitors , thus social isolation. Fortunately tech savvy enough to keep in touch and able to observe the psychological manipulation of the public ,the majority of whom cannot understand the statistics and who just accept what has been dished up on a daily basis . With plenty of time , I did the research and wrote up some findings . I do not access to a computer because of lockdown thus all done on IPad , easy for the research but frustratingly slow to type on one .
    I think that there are other factors as those I am in contact with via blogs . zoom etc are “ not happy Dan” but follow the instructions in the belief this will keep their families and themselves safe. The doctors in my family let me know what is happening on the frontline re DHHS and tracing that are still not 100% up to date which means numbers will go up once restrictions lifted .
    During my career I was in a position of visiting people in their homes and unless standards have improved , there is a percentage of households where the hygiene was not of a standard to avoid viruses . In fact one thing that women friends noticed at meetings was that old men did not wash their hands after using the bathroom . Hopefully advertising has changed this behaviour but will it keep up when restrictions are lifted ?
    I can also see that there will be problems keeping us oldies ‘safe ‘ although it would be helpful to know what even Brett Sutton does not know that is died of it or with it or in fact other illnesses .
    Dan , therefore , has a huge problem if numbers go up again once restrictions are lifted .

  19. duncanm

    Matt,

    like almost every country in Europe which was hit, including the ones with lockdowns, Sweden has max’d out at approx 600 deaths/million.

    To say there is no herd immunity effect is bullshit.

    The only question is why it is kicking in with such a low (apparent) infection rate. Either the infection rates are bogus – and mortality rates are much lower – or something else is going on.

  20. duncanm

    Why am I not surprised the Victorian AG is a burlesque dancer with clown glasses?

  21. Perfidious Albino

    Matt – The difference is that Sweden accepted the harsh reality that the virus would (mostly) shorten the lives of those who were going to die from influenza/pneumonia this/next year anyway. In contrast, we are still trying to hold back the tide, at enormous cost, but it will wash over us too eventually. Arguably we are giving the most vulnerable a few months more – but is there genuine quality of life locked down in isolation, no visits, sedated and given palliative care if they get sick?

    If you look at the Swedish influenza data for 1993-1994, which was their last particularly bad flu season, the COVID season is not materially worse.

  22. duncanm

    “um um umm.. challenge somefink in court” – Jesus, where did they find this bird?

  23. Matt

    Except the facts don’t support your argument Duncan.
    Deaths per million:
    Ireland – 359/m
    Switzerland – 231/m
    Portugal – 178/m
    Germany – 112/m
    Denmark – 108/m
    Austria – 81/m

    I could continue, but I think you get the point that the majority of Europe, sorry ‘almost every country in Europe’ maxed out at 600 deaths per million.

    Point me to any evidence that they have herd immunity in Sweden. Best estimates are that 20% have been infected, but that’s unlikely. And >60% would be required for herd immunity.

  24. Matt

    Perfidious Albino – it might wash over us eventually, but it might not based on the measures in place. Certainly other than Victoria the mortality rate in Australia is very low, and there’s no indication that we will reach the 600/million seen in Sweden.

  25. Entropy

    The only way we won’t end up wth Sweden’s death rate in the end anyway is if the disease is burnt out in other countries before we start letting people travel internationally again. Otherwise as soon as we do infection rates will spiral.

    So apparently the strategy is to keep us operating like a hermit kingdom a long as possible. That will work out well said nobody ever.

    I keep thinking of that Slim Dusty song, the red back in the toilet seat, with the memorable line:

    I’ve got a feeling that your cure is worse than the disease.

    When it comes to deaths and reduction in quality of life for the next fifty years there are two sides to the ledger.

  26. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    It is astonishing really, most unexpected and very disappointing – I mean, really, who voted for this palooka … ummm … 5 times in 18 years, twice as the State’s leader?

    How could they have known what they were going to get? 😁 😂 🤣

    As for the persuasive value of the claim that “the World is laughing at us” – if you asked Mugabe’s grandchildren, or Castro’s, the locals from the nearest neighbour in Djakarta or the highly educated kiddies on the grounds of any university in the USA they couldn’t tell you where Australia is, let alone Victoria.

  27. incoherent rambler

    The world is laughing at us

    That ain’t news.
    The laughing has been non-stop since federation.

  28. yarpos

    “And not only do we have the hardest lockdown possibly anywhere in the world”

    It seems we get very short memories when we get bound up in our own little parochial dramas.

  29. mem

    Steve
    The research quoted by Janet Albrechtsen in her otherwise excellent article in the Australian this weekend needs a great deal of explaining. Some of the issues that need to be teased out with this survey are highlighted below.
    Firstly, how were the respondents selected bearing in mind this was a survey conducted by sms. Perhaps there were many more people contacted who didn’t respond. No details given.
    Perhaps more responded but were screened out? No details given.
    The use of sms will automatically create a bias towards younger people. We are only told that the respondents were 18+ in age but they could all be uni students or members of Get-Up for all we know. No details given.
    How respondents were recruited makes a big difference to the sample.How did research company actually obtain the mobile numbers? No details given.
    There were 6 questions with half of the respondent each being asked only 3 questions. How were the questions divided up? Some of the questions related to child care so if not relevant then completely skews results. How was this dealt with in the interpretation of results. No details given.
    The survey has , in effect been divided in half by the methodology so really only a survey of 1055 so the level of confidence in the results drops significantly and I would maintain cannot be used with any confidence to extrapolate to the broader population of Victoria (6.49 million), indeed to do so is very dangerous. Or perhaps this was a means to achieve the desired outcome?
    I would like to know who commissioned this research. Whomever it was would have had a big influence on the methodology and interpretation of results. Given the timing I would suspect that it was commissioned by someone associated with the state government or ALP. No details given.
    I must repeat that to assume that the people of Victoria are supportive of this draconian lock down based on this poll is irresponsible and dangerous. But as I say it may have served the purpose of propping up the meme that Victorians are happy with their overlords.
    “Roy Morgan has published an SMS poll conducted in Victoria, which finds strong support for the state’s lockdown measures: 89-11 in favour of compulsory face masks, 76-24 against reopening schools and day care centres to all, 71-29 against relaxing the 5km travel restriction, 75-25 against allowing table service at pubs, restaurants and cafes, and 72-28 against lifting the curfew. The closest result to dissent was a relatively narrow 57-43 against allowing visits to immediate family members, currently allowed only for delivering care or essential services. The poll was conducted Tuesday and Wednesday from a sample of 2110.”

  30. mh

    The extent of the world’s knowledge of Australia is kangaroos and the syphilitic koalas.

  31. Professor Fred Lenin

    The health people need to release figures stating the situation of the deceased ,like how many were aged care residents and how many health workers who are continually exposed to the Chinese virus . This would put the situation into perspective . Another usefull contribution would be pre existing medical condition of the deceased . Surely such information would be usefull to the medical profession ?
    They would of course upset the political narrative ,but who gives acshit about those political liars .
    We are entitled to know these things ,its our health we are talking about ,not party politics .

  32. notafan

    Dhhs has much of that information on daily media updates.

    I am betting zero health care workers have died. Would be all over news.

    Vast majority over 70 ‘associated’ with aged care.

    Info on young people is clearly fudged.

    Eg

    Twenty year apparently terminal cancer.

  33. Roger

    How’s that diversity working out?

    Melbourne academic says the hardest hit suburbs in the citiy’s second wave of infections are populated by non-English speaking immigrants from low trust societies who regard government employees as potential spies and government messaging as propaganda.

    On second thoughts, perhaps they have a point?

  34. Matt

    Prof Lenin – that data is all publicly available.

  35. MatrixTransform

    For the record, Sweden has had 320 deaths since 1 July, Victoria has had 490 over the same period.
    But Sweden had 5,500 up til then compared to Victoria’s 20.

    Best Own Goal Ive seen for a while Matt.
    I bestow upon you the official title of Rake Bearer

    yr not real good with numbers are ya?

  36. Entropy

    mh
    #3564835, posted on August 30, 2020 at 9:27 am
    The extent of the world’s knowledge of Australia is kangaroos and the syphilitic koalas

    Overseas visitors definitely need greater awareness of the dangers of drop bears.

  37. notafan

    Matt
    Got a link for that also their age and comorbities?

    Not to mention even if this was otherwise fit and healthy person it doesn’t justify the last seven months of mayhem in Victoria.

  38. duncanm

    Except the facts don’t support your argument Duncan.

    I can cherry pick, too.

    Spain – 620
    UK – 610
    Italy – 590

    btw – many of these countries are kicking into a second wave of infections, but the deaths are not following.

  39. notafan

    I did see a report that health care workers aged in 70s and 80s had covid19.

    Could only be doctors stupid enough to still be working.

    Or was it health care worker, now retired and living in aged care?

  40. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    To say there is no herd immunity effect is bullshit.

    The only question is why it is kicking in with such a low (apparent) infection rate.

    I have seen some epidemiological modelling that puts the immunity effect rate at circa 20%. There is also the issue of antibodies – apparently T cells can kill off this virus without antibodies even being produced, so population exposure rates may be much higher than is thought. As with all to do with this virus, much is uncertain.

    Viruses come and go in nature, and humans have developed useful defence mechanisms. Death of some of the population is one way of naturally coping with a new virus, and is the time-honoured way in the past, allowing the virus to take easy pickings and run out of easy hosts, thus forcing it to attenuate to survive. A new virus picks off the most vulnerable for whatever manifold reason: those with lowered immunity due to age or co-morbidity or genetic stock or lack of a level of previous exposure to this virus or similar ones, etc. Well-nourished, well-slept and well-rested populations have much less to fear than undernourished and overworked ones. Their T cells can get busy. Sometimes though, the reaction amongst the well-nourished can be extreme, their bodies are too clever for their own good, causing a cytokine storm and heart failure.

  41. notafan

    Disability nurse.

    No suggestion contracted covid19 in medical setting either.

  42. Matt

    Not cherry picking Duncan – clearly geography not your strong point – you said most were around 600, I just highlighted a handful that weren’t. There’s only 6-7 higher than those I mentioned, the rest of Europe well below those numbers.

  43. Matt

    Duncan – I didn’t say there was no herd immunity, just that Sweden hasn’t reached the level of infection yet to have herd immunity.

  44. Roger

    Co-morbidities listed in the Dept of Health Epi Report –

    Of those comorbidities specified
    within the NNDSS, the most common was
    cardiac disease (2.8%). Of the COVID-19 cases
    reported to the NNDSS where comorbidity data
    were available (n = 8,845), 24.8% reported at
    least one comorbidity. This proportion increased
    to 47.2% of hospitalised cases; 56.1% of patients
    admitted to ICU; and 67.1% of cases that died
    due to COVID-19. The most common comorbidities reported included cardiac disease (7.4%
    of all cases with data available), diabetes (6.9% of
    all cases with data available), and asthma (5.9%
    of all cases with data available)

  45. mem

    The Roy Morgan research represented views of 1055 people (2110 divided by 2 as per its methodology). This petition represents the views of nearly 30,000 Victorians. Who do you believe? https://www.change.org/p/daniel-andrews-resign?redirect=false

  46. MatrixTransform

    lets try another metric like … $ppm
    or how about we see what Pareto has to say

    yr problem Matt, is that ‘da numbers’ that youre crowing about cannot ever speak for themselves.

    no matter which way you turn it, it is uni-demensional and essentially useless

  47. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Could only be doctors stupid enough to still be working.

    My doctor cousin in Louisiana bayou country, a staunch Catholic and a very civilised man, is in his 70’s but kept working during the start of the Covid epidemic there, even though he had inadequate PPE, because he was deeply caring about his patients in the small city where he worked near the small town where he grew up. He had long-term relationships and commitments to the people he had known life-long, to their families and their children and children’s children. He was a pillar of his community and saw himself as obligated to it. That’s the way things work around there.

    He has not yet succumbed to Covid, I am happy to say. His God has sent him many tests of faith, including the death of his beloved first wife and his fine adult son from a hideous degenerative brain disease. I hope he has developed an immunity by now. If faith can work wonders, then it has done so here.

  48. Lizzi55

    I noticed considerable numbers of people are still debating the “pandemic” using the quoted bogus statistics, using them to compare different countries etc. This is pointless there are too many variables and differences, eg different test rates, different criteria for getting testing, different test protocols, different test kits being used, each with their own varying error rates, not to mention varying competencies of the operators, the varying pass/fail threshold of the pcr test that is applied by the operator (depends on the signal to noise ratio), then you have varying number of tests applied to each person (avg = 3 tests per person in uk) and varying criteria for which deaths go into the covid column. If this approach was being used to solve any real world problem it would be guaranteed to fail. I suggest people compare total mortality instead, against previous years, remembering that lockdown would have added to the death toll, and remembering that mortality has never been documented to this extent before. Otherwise you are not comparing apples with apples. Then ask yourself, is there a public health emergency

  49. Matt

    I don’t disagree Matrix, it’s always about more than just the numbers. But it doesnt help when people misrepresent the numbers that we do have. To say the numbers are useless leaves us where? What does our measure then become? Even Pareto is about numbers.

  50. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Nor will they feel it so pressing to restore the freedoms taken, especially once they start to see ‘dangers’ elsewhere to save us from.

    Climate change, anyone?
    Suspension of democracy and quashing of freedom of speech, all for our own good?

  51. Megan

    I get it, Matt. Hand in your drivers licence to VicPol immediately and sell your car. The risk of killing or being killed driving or suffering permanent injury from a motor vehicle accident is higher than getting C19. And there is no herd immunity at all, ever.

  52. notafan

    Well good for your cousin Lizzie a complete family of super humanitarians

    If your trying to suggest that 80 year olds still working in Melbourne bulk bills are doing it for love spare me.

    Twice I’ve had elderly doctors hurt my children because of incompetence.

    One of them I had to actually intervene to stop the stupid fool though Too late to stop her giving my son a permanent scar that had nothing to do with his medical issue.

    I should have lodged a complaint to the AMA.
    I did complain to receptionist and she did disappear.

  53. Matt

    Not really Megan – COVID deaths in Victoria already double the annual road toll.
    I presume you don’t wear a seat belt when you drive?

  54. notafan

    Matt

    Nah not wading through that

    Did Victorian health care worker have comorbities and did he contract covid19 at work.

  55. Roger

    Nah not wading through that

    I’ve posted the pertinent part above, nota.

    Odds are the health worker had co-morbidities as the available figures indicate 67.1% of those who died did. If I were a betting man I’d wager the actual figure is higher.

  56. Cumborah Kid

    Ah Roger, you do not understand. The primary reason we import the useless and the lame and the unassimilable is to create lots of worthy recipients of our love and care using your money. Just think of all the government jobs we now require in the form of special needs teachers, psychologists, language teachers, doctors and nurses and, yes, police. All of which are disposed to voting to the left side of politics, not to mention that the imported are supposed to vote Labor as well. That’s why the left get so shitty when the recently arrived have the temerity to vote Liberal.

  57. Matt

    Nearly everyone who dies in Australia of any cause has co-morbidities – I don’t understand the obsession with co-morbidities and COVID.

  58. MatrixTransform

    To say the numbers are useless leaves us where?

    to say the numbers are useless doesn’t leave us anywhere.
    simply stating a fact
    garbage in, garbage out.
    just the way it is

    I have ex-wife in hospital right now and she’s been there for 2 weeks because encephalitis
    she was basically dead on the kitchen floor because tele-health works so beautifully

    VikGov already stated that the numbers are a complete cockup.
    True to their word VikGov would have tipped her into the covid total as well if she hadn’t made it.

    here’s the rub.
    In effect she is also a covid victim no matter which bucket they would have decided to put her in if the worst happened.

    A close shave and right now she’s a victim of a failed health response by the best and brightest.
    Ironically, she’s also luckiest mole in melbourne in that that the health system managed to repair her.

    further, because she is a survived ‘victim’ and uncounted … that also skews useless numbers into yet another useless dimension

    VikGov are bunch of ham-fisted retards

  59. notafan

    Thanks Roger
    So there is at least a 67.1% chance the deceased health worker had a comorbities..

  60. MatrixTransform

    I don’t understand the obsession with co-morbidities and COVID

    yes, clearly

  61. Roger

    So there is at least a 67.1% chance the deceased health worker had a comorbities..

    Not to be impolite, but the photos indicate he was also obese, which would have put him at risk of diabetes and heart disease.

  62. Ozman

    Matt
    #3564889, posted on August 30, 2020 at 9:59 am
    But it doesnt help when people misrepresent the numbers that we do have.

    Deaths in Italy from COVID were 35,473, according to the WHO reports.

    But tabled in the Italian Parliament 99% of people who died from COVID-19 in Italy had other illnesses, according to Italian officials Average age of decedents was around 81 years old.

    As in Italy, extrapolate this worldwide. The truth is people are dying from other diseases, which are being reported as COVID. Every positive test is being announced, as if a death, to scare the imbeciles who believe what they hear and see on TV. This is a hoax!

  63. HT

    Ladyredneck
    #3564730, posted on August 30, 2020 at 7:45 am
    Meanwhile, the CDC released a report this week, quietly. It states that only 6% of deaths in the USA can be attributed to covid only. Thats something a little over 9200 people.

    Don’t want to sound like a pedant, but in this case expression is important. The CDC are reporting that just 6% of all reported Covid deaths had only Covid as the cause of death. That is to say, 94% of all reported Covid deaths had pre-existing co-morbidities.

  64. Roger

    I don’t understand the obsession with co-morbidities and COVID.

    Matt, it goes to the government’s approach and messaging.

    Think back to AIDS and the ad featuring the grim reaper in the bowling alley knocking down citizens of all ages, as though all were equally susceptible to the disease. We know now that was false messaging.

    If the chance of a healthy person dying from covid is ridiculously low, locking down entire state economies is a disaster of greater proportion than the disease, the effect of which will persist for years. That will destroy more lives than covid will.

  65. Roger

    We know now that was false messaging.

    I.e. a lie told told instil fear into people to make them easier to control.

    That is not how democratic governments ought to interact with their citizens.

    Democratic governments ought to convey accurate information to their citizens that is untainted by political agendas, make sensible & practical recommendations and trust citizens to act rationally.

    The question, then, is are governments reporting deaths with covid as deaths from covid (when the actual cases are much more complex than that) and if so why?

  66. pat

    the attacks on Sweden by MSM were relentless, trying to shame them into lockdown. deaths in Sweden should be EXPONENTIALLY higher than in rest of Europe without one.

    according to Prof Lockdown, Sweden would have 80-90,000 deaths by May:

    3 Jun: Daily Mail: Neil Ferguson whose grim warnings prompted Boris Johnson to order TOTAL LOCKDOWN admits Sweden may have suppressed Covid-19 to the same level but WITHOUT draconian measures
    •Professor admitted there is lessons to be learned from Sweden moving forward
    •Sweden dodged major crisis without locking down and seeing economy implode
    •Professor Ferguson’s team predicted staggering amount of UK deaths in March
    •Modelling thought to have single-handedly shocked UK into imposing lockdown
    by Connor Boyd

    Professor Ferguson admitted he was stumped as to why Sweden had recorded just 4,000 Covid deaths when some calculations estimated the country would suffer 90,000 without the measures…
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8379769/Professor-Lockdown-Neil-Ferguson-admits-greatest-respect-Sweden.html

    similarly, how often have you heard MSM claims that US/Brazil/India are the top covid basket cases? (MSM hates their so-called Nationalist govts).

    however, BELGIUM – HOME OF THE EUROPEAN UNION – has been #1 until it was just overtaken by PERU, and CHILE is also ahead of Brazil.
    when did you ever wake up to BELGIUM/PERU/CHILE COVID HYSTERIA ON THE NEWS?

    Statista: Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths worldwide per one million population as of August 28, 2020, by country (ignores San Marino pop. 33,000 which was #1)
    #1 Peru 883.95
    #2 Belgium 865.34
    UK, Spain, Chile, Italy…
    #7 Sweden 571.53
    #8 Brazil
    #9 USA
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

  67. John snowy Bowyer

    But wait! The choco ration has been increased to twenty grams a week! Double plus good?

  68. min

    If you look at the Covid info put out daily at the top of this blog page you will see that some numbers are no longer put out by DHHS . There used to be a map of Melbourne with coloured dots for clusters in suburbs . One thing that was noticeable was it was aged care homes in North Western suburbs with high death rates , it too many un South Eastern suburbs . Just like Covid positive cases there seems to be a correlation .
    BTW nursing homes is wrong terminology I believe aged care more accurate.

  69. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Roger at 9:35 am:

    “How’s that diversity working out?

    Melbourne academic says …”

    Long ago, before 2020, an “academic” would pass on his objective analysis and findings, based on dispassionate observation. Now if he is not lying with “I reckon …” to push some profitable line for himself or for his institution he would not have a job.

    I read the reports on better results from gentler, superior, more enlightened places and note the continuing theme about our stubborn aged who aren’t getting out of the way quickly enough for the kiddies to get back out there to play on their jet skis, which they plan to upgrade when they get their mitts on the capital gain from their parents’ home.

    A young man from my wife’s country recounted to me how, as a newcomer teenage student in western Sydney, his class visited a retirement home. This big strong fella told me how he left in tears, distressed that so many people had no family. He grew to understand that it was family who stuck them there and remained disparaging about the Australian way, as he should be.

    Her lot typically house three generations under one roof. Every child has numerous mentors, family and neighbours, who monitor their safety as they move about the village. Each conversation with an older person is invariably peppered with common words of salutation, recognising their respected status.

  70. Hay Stockard

    I have a little bit of schadenfruede on the occasion I am reminded of Victoria. But laugh at them? No. Not all . Democracy in action, as they understand it in the deep h.

  71. cuckoo

    Great cartoon by Johannes, and the perfect touch is the ‘stand with dan’ posters in the dank dripping basement. We actually had someone letterboxing the neighbourhood with professionally printed ‘We [heart] Dan’ flyers. Now I understand how Jonestown happened.

  72. cuckoo

    when did you ever wake up to BELGIUM/PERU/CHILE COVID HYSTERIA ON THE NEWS?

    Exactly. I was floored when I first learned about the Covid death rate in Belgium, given the otherwise total media silence on this subject. And the one thing you can count on is that whenever they mention Bolsonaro, they frame him as ‘the Trump of the Tropics’. Indeed, if you google that phrase you currently get over 12m hits.

  73. Matt

    Matrix – best wishes for a full recovery for your ex – that’s not a great situation to be in.

  74. slackster

    Is the truth finally coming out:

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

    “Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death”

  75. Rob MW

    Judging from some of the replies here that suggests that notion of ‘herd immunity’ is to some degree a fallacy seems to fly in the face of the science of “Therapeutic Plasma” donated by recovered patients.

    From my understanding, a large part of the mortality rate has to do with the amount of virus load a person receives initially. It would appear that therapeutic plasma controls the amount of virus load that a person receives therefore subduing the more serious effects of the virus. It would follow that people locked in confined spaces with infected people have a greater risk of receiving a higher virus load in the first instance that people in less confined spaces.

    Just saying.

  76. MatrixTransform

    best wishes for a full recovery for your ex – that’s not a great situation to be in.

    thanks, we are all in this together

    … here’s the empathic pavlov award for posturing

    now go back to the shallow end

  77. Tim Neilson

    Matt,
    For about the last fortnight Sweden has averaged about 1 death per day attributed to COVID 19. I say “attributed” because, as has been pointed out above, if a 95 year old with terminal cancer happens to be COVID 19 positive when they die that’s not necessarily evidence that COVID 19 is the new Black Death.
    It’s over. Sweden has beaten it. Move on.

  78. Robber Baron

    They know their policies won’t stop the spread. They also know there are not enough people prepared to demontrate in the streets demanding a change in government.

  79. Matt

    Tim – for 2 months from May/June Victoria averaged 1 death per month.
    But guess what, we didn’t ‘beat it’
    It remains to be seen, but when this is finally all over its likely that Sweden will have had more deaths per million than Victoria, unless we experience a massive surge in cases and subsequent deaths.

  80. Beachcomber

    Lizzi55 #3564888, posted on August 30, 2020 at 9:59 am

    I noticed considerable numbers of people are still debating the “pandemic” using the quoted bogus statistics, using them to compare different countries etc. This is pointless there are too many variables and differences, eg different test rates, different criteria for getting testing, different test protocols, different test kits being used, each with their own varying error rates, not to mention varying competencies of the operators, the varying pass/fail threshold of the pcr test that is applied by the operator (depends on the signal to noise ratio), then you have varying number of tests applied to each person (avg = 3 tests per person in uk) and varying criteria for which deaths go into the covid column. If this approach was being used to solve any real world problem it would be guaranteed to fail. I suggest people compare total mortality instead, against previous years, remembering that lockdown would have added to the death toll, and remembering that mortality has never been documented to this extent before. Otherwise you are not comparing apples with apples. Then ask yourself, is there a public health emergency

    Lizie55 gets it. There is no public health emergency! What we really have is an emergency of vicious police-state repression by the idiots and bureaucrats who govern Australia; fully supported by their Ministry of Truth media.

    Covid-1984 has nothing to do with controlling a disease and public health. It is pure politics. Vicious leftist totalitarian politics.

  81. notafan

    Yes Roger

    I had noticed.

  82. Whalehunt fun

    Aked to leave the park. If you left all identifi ation at home you can say you are a homeless person and this park is your home at the moment.

  83. Tim Neilson

    Tim – for 2 months from May/June Victoria averaged 1 death per month.
    But guess what, we didn’t ‘beat it’

    Of course we didn’t beat it, because we were going about it totally the wrong way. Sweden is now reaping the benefits of not panicking about the inevitable progression of the virus through the community. We’re reaping the detriments of having gone hysterical about a few cases of people arriving back from overseas diagnosed with the virus, when there was next to no community transmission at all, but we decided to destroy our economy anyway.

    If we’d gone the Swedish approach (but with better protection for the elderly and other vulnerable) we would already have had the current “second wave” (really the first wave) without a lockdown and now wouldn’t need to be even thinking of introducing one.

    It remains to be seen, but when this is finally all over its likely that Sweden will have had more deaths per million than Victoria, unless we experience a massive surge in cases and subsequent deaths.

    More deaths directly attributed to the COVID 19 virus perhaps. More deaths taking into account those caused by anti-virus measures, that could well be a different story.

  84. Matt
    #3564927, posted on August 30, 2020 at 10:29 am

    Nearly everyone who dies in Australia of any cause has co-morbidities – I don’t understand the obsession with co-morbidities and COVID.

    You probably also don’t understand that you’re a sucker.

  85. Leo G

    Point me to any evidence that they have herd immunity in Sweden. Best estimates are that 20% have been infected, but that’s unlikely. And >60% would be required for herd immunity.

    Epidemiologists have been suggesting for some time that over 40% of the population appears to have had some kind of acquired immunity to CV-19. If 20% of a population have subsequently been infected, then that population has reached the nominal threshold for herd immunity.

  86. Matt

    What I do understand is that most of the people opining here have very little idea of what they are talking about other than to recite something they read on a blog somewhere that supports their preconceived views. I’m happy to engage in the science, but it seems that’s beyond you.

  87. A reader

    They’re carrying on about the Rona like it’s Novachok

  88. incoherent rambler

    I’m happy to engage in the science …

    You may go and your education any time.
    Don’t let us stop you.

  89. incoherent rambler

    You may go and start your education any time.

  90. sfw

    Matt you must know everything after all you know ‘frontline people’.
    As for your science, all you do is blather on about vague things. You haven’t told us why hydroxychloroquine and zinc is bad and why they’re are banned in Australia but used lots of other places with good results.
    Explain why having other serious diseases that will kill you or are killing you, and then you die having tested for wuflu or perhaps the attending doctor thought you may have it, is good science, especially when it comes to compiling statistics. Surely our death stats are deeply flawed?
    The CDC in the US has just stated that deaths where only covid was the factor is just 6% of the total US deaths attributed to wuflu. It seems obvious that those people were already dying from their other diseases and that influenza or even a cold would have finished them off, to claim them as covid deaths is bad science but good PR for those who like that sort of thing. The 6% figure is probably closer to the mark world wide probably lower than that.
    Go ask your ‘frontline’ friends about it.

  91. Matt

    Insults about education don’t really have the impact when they are so incoherent.

  92. Matt
    #3565357, posted on August 30, 2020 at 3:20 pm

    What I do understand is that most of the people opining here have very little idea of what they are talking about other than to recite something they read on a blog somewhere that supports their preconceived views. I’m happy to engage in the science, but it seems that’s beyond you.

    Start whenever you like.

    Don’t flounce, complain and lie like last time.

  93. Tel

    You haven’t told us why hydroxychloroquine and zinc is bad and why they’re are banned in Australia but used lots of other places with good results.

    Even weirder … the science of why HCQ can be banned as a “poison” in Australia by the same health authorities wringing hands and saying how important it is to keep it for those who really need it, like the Lupus patients who take it every single day.

    I would love to hear the scientific explanation of that one, from some who really knows science n at.

    Perhaps Schrödinger’s cat could be involved for the drug that both is and isn’t poison at the same time … with sufficient quantum theory you can finally understand the sciency science of Australian healthcare regulations.

  94. Leo G

    Nearly everyone who dies in Australia of any cause has co-morbidities – I don’t understand the obsession with co-morbidities and COVID.

    Serious illness associated with COVID is overwhelmingly a geriatric condition. COVID mortality risk for healthy “under 65s” is less than 1% of that for “over 65s”.

  95. Matt

    I’ve never talked about hydroxychloroquine and zinc, and I’ve certainly never said that it’s bad – but point me to the credible studies that show that it is effective.
    On the issue of co-morbidities – if you are obese or have diabetes, and then get a cancer diagnosis and die, do you think the obesity/diabetes or the cancer killed you? What do you think goes on the death certificate?
    Around half the Australian population has 1 or more chronic diseases – so they are at increased risk of premature death. But you would expect us to ignore that another disease then increases the risk of death.
    Do you even understand what you are talking about with the 6% figure?

  96. notafan

    Matt

    In Australia the dying cohort are typically in aged care with what that implies.

    Most deaths seem to be in the over 80 category with what implies about immune systems let alone other pre existing conditions.

    Last year and the years before this cohort would likely have succumbed to flu.

    We already know some testing positive were already in end stage palliative care and were not transferred to hospital.

    What really is your point?

  97. notafan

    Someone I know in late eighties died a few weeks ago, stroke then pneumonia.

    If their nursing home had covid19 outbreak then that might have finished her of.

    With frail elderly it can be anything, any time.

  98. notafan

    Personally I don’t think those treatments would make any difference to extremely frail elderly.

    And whatever existing medical treatments there are seem to be pretty successful unless you have other major health issues.
    The point really is that people under 70 in reasonable health are extremely unlikely to succumb to covid19 even if they get very sick like the 34 year old doctor at Northern Hospital.

    Why are we all being locked up?

  99. Matt

    About 10% of deaths in Australia are <70 years, and 20% in 70-79 years. Average life expectancy is greater than that, so its doing more than just taking a few months from a handful of people in palliative care.

  100. John A

    min #3564987, posted on August 30, 2020, at 10:57 am

    BTW nursing homes is wrong terminology I believe aged care more accurate.

    Not sure about that. “Aged care” includes independent-living retirement units, doesn’t it? Or are you saying that people in independent-living units are those NOT requiring any kind of medical care?

  101. Leo G

    BTW nursing homes is wrong terminology I believe aged care more accurate

    Nursing homes really just refers to the circumstance of people in longer-term care who are allocated beds as if in a hospital general ward. They are not necessarily geriatric cases.

  102. Squirrel

    The BLM protestors are being remarkably coy……

  103. Megan

    Not really Megan – COVID deaths in Victoria already double the annual road toll.
    I presume you don’t wear a seat belt when you drive?

    Way to miss the point, Mr Science is King.

    I’ll make it simple for you. 1200 road deaths in Australia in 2019. Including babies, children and families. As many or more with serious, permanent injuries. Roughly that number each and every year. No vaccines, no herd immunity, no running about screaming ‘We’re all gunna die”

    Total Covid deaths this year, 611.

    The seatbelt comment? Large and decomposing red herring.

    Hand in your licence, you moronic hypocrite. Just think how many lives you are saving.

  104. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    The BLM protestors are being remarkably coy……

    They are fast being exposed as the pack of ar$eholes they really are. Win/win!

  105. Matt

    Megan – not valid to compare Australian road toll to Australian COVID deaths when they are disproportionately in Victoria – hence my Vic to Vic comparison with COVID deaths already double the road toll. And the seatbelt comment is completely pertinent – we do things to make sure the road toll isn’t worse.

  106. MatrixTransform

    not valid to compare

    Matt, this isn’t faceBook and yr bullshit won’t work here.

  107. —However, you can leave your house to visit a person if you are in an “intimate personal relationship” with them, even during curfew hours. So no “bonk ban”.—

    Cant you just lie and say that you are screwing everybody?

  108. Matt

    You’re right, it seems like people here have a real aversion to simple things like facts and science.

  109. nb

    In the latter days of the Cain/Kirner calamity that Victorians foisted upon themselves, around 3,000 people per week were leaving the state, many migrating to Queensland. I can’t keep up with the rules, but is it true that Victorians are this time around imprisoned within their state? If so, neat solution!

  110. notafan

    Matt what is the average age of people dying of covid19?

  111. notafan

    And if they aren’t being transferred to hospital but are dying in the nursing home is there any reasonable conclusion to draw?

  112. min:

    In fact one thing that women friends noticed at meetings was that old men did not wash their hands after using the bathroom

    Min, what’s the difference between University trained nurses and hospital trained nurses?
    University trained nurses are taught the necessity of scrupulous hand washing after using the toilet, Hospital trained nurses were taught to not piss on their hands.

  113. Notafan:

    I am betting zero health care workers have died. Would be all over news.

    Probably the same amount as Checkout Chicks – both very high transmission risk categories.

  114. Anne

    Australia is a private Corporation registered in Washington, DC.

    All State Governments are private Corporations.

    All Councils are Corporations.

    The Courts are a private Corporation operating under Maritime Law.

    The Police Force is a private Corporation.

    Because of the Birth Certificate System, YOU ARE A CORPORATION!

    Please watch this. I don’t know what we can do about it but it’s important people understand how they’ve come to own us and everything we have, legally.

    https://youtu.be/h4vNnRhabOs 30 mins

    I disagree with his opinion of Trump. I think Trump understands the system perfectly and his job is to take it down.

  115. Anne

    It’s all a scam.

    There is no pandemic.

    BIG STORY – PLEASE SHARE: PCR test that is producing the ‘virus cases’ triggering the new lockdowns worldwide is testing for genetic codes that every human has and NOT THE ‘VIRUS’ – David Icke talks with Dr Andrew Kaufman about the astonishing hoax transforming human society.

    https://banned.video/watch?id=5f43d224df77c4044ef43e91

  116. Leo G

    PCR test that is producing the ‘virus cases’ triggering the new lockdowns worldwide is testing for genetic codes that every human has and NOT THE ‘VIRUS

    If that were true then the only PCR negative test results would be false negatives (ie test error). Yet the majority tested are found to be true negative.
    The rates of false negatives and false positives in the normal sense are mostly in accord with the claimed precision of the PCR tests.

  117. MatrixTransform

    a real aversion to simple things like facts and science.

    Matt, your firm grip on facts and science make you sound pretty much like a year 11 schoolgirl

  118. Morant

    How do they test what an intimate relationship is?
    How far can I travel for this intimate relationship?

  119. A reader

    If you believe a word that David Icke says then I’m afraid we can’t help you

  120. egg_

    Meanwhile in Sweden …
    – they have more than 7 times the deaths of Victoria

    Seasonal Flu in freezing Scandinavia vs Melbourne?
    Apples and oranges, retard.

  121. mem

    Daniel Andrews and his health policy police do it again.Yep, they have just loaded in more aged care deaths that for some reason have been either reclassified as covid or held back until now.
    “Despite 11 confirmed deaths yesterday, the Department of Health said Monday’s deaths included 22 people who died in the weeks leading up to August 27 and were only reported to DHHS by aged care facilities on Sunday.

    Premier Daniel Andrews is expected to be grilled for extra detail on the additional reported deaths when he fronts the media at 11am.” https://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyle/health/victoria-records-73-new-coronavirus-cases-and-41-deaths/news-story/9972b19b2e21db05e0173c77c798cbfb

  122. egg_

    I noticed considerable numbers of people are still debating the “pandemic” using the quoted bogus statistics, using them to compare different countries etc.

    Whose regimes are rewarding the reporting of co-morbidity of CV-19 the most?

  123. egg_

    I’m happy to engage in the science

    Farr’s Law?

Comments are closed.