Perhaps it’s because of our penal colony roots

There were two articles in the Australian today discussing more or less the same issue. First from Adam Creighton: The COVID-19 panic is unnecessary — it is much less threatening than we think. And then from Nick Cater: Founded on risk and reward, now too scared to go out. I will just quote from Nick:

The chance of contracting COVID-19 in Victoria at the moment is less than 0.002 per cent. If Victoria were a country, it would be the 90th least dangerous place on the planet in which to shelter from the pandemic.

In the light of these reassuring facts, it seems surprising so few Victorians are protesting at their government’s gross over-reaction to the virus.

The severity of the spread in Victoria is roughly similar to Canada, which is also experiencing a second wave. Yet there are no reports of Canadians receiving six-month prison sentences for crossing a state provincial border or being wrestled to the ground by police for exposing naked faces.

There is, perhaps, this one extenuating circumstance to explain our craven submission to authority, and particularly Victoria’s, that Australia was founded as a penal colony, so there may remain an overlay of a marshal-law mentality that lies very near the surface within Australian governments, with a matching tendency to submit to this authority within the community. But we were also an English colony with a legal foundation built on the English common law, so that one can hope there is still somewhere within our national DNA a love of freedom and a hatred of dictatorial restraint.

Just remember, Daniel Andrews is the kind of guy who if he gets to take your freedom from you will be very reluctant to give it back.

And to provide some perspective

NED-1434 Pandemics over time - 0

Not saying it definitely won’t kill you, but it is still very unlikely.

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75 Responses to Perhaps it’s because of our penal colony roots

  1. Rossini

    But But Dan the man sings a different song!

  2. Penny

    Stop calling this a second wave !!
    They never had a first wave because of lockdown

  3. H B Bear

    I would not read much into Australia being a former penal colony. Until Dan Andrews, Australians have not had to deal with a truly malevolent ideologue, just the merely corrupt like Neville Wran or Joh Bejlke-Peterson. The concept is completely foreign to us all.

  4. Chris M

    this one extenuating circumstance to explain our craven submission to authority

    You don’t think the outrageously punitive fines have anything to do with it? A large police force trained to despise the citizens and act as a bouncer squad?

  5. paul

    Not saying it definitely won’t kill you, but it is still very unlikely.

    But it is likely to kill if you are elderly and with morbid conditions.

    So why aren’t we allowed the freedom of choice of a safe cheap medication like Hydroxochloroquine or Ivermectin treatments with anti biotics and zine, prescribed under doctors supervision?

    Our expert political class will have some explaining to do with this death count and the economic damage, and so to the CCP.

  6. H B Bear

    Until DanAndrews I would have said the idea of a State Premier doing a deal potentially against the National interest was laughable. Not any more.

  7. Bruce

    There is, of course, a song. 1978, no less

  8. Roger

    There is, perhaps, this one extenuating circumstance to explain our craven submission to authority, and particularly Victoria’s, that Australia was founded as a penal colony…

    I rather think the problem is excessive deference to public health officials.

    For a common sense alternative medical opinion, see Quadrant Online.

  9. duncanm

    Now scale those nice colourful blobs by the world population at the time.

    Black Death – up to half of Europe perished.
    Spanish flu – 50M on 2B – 2.5%.
    Asian flu ’57 – 1.1M on 3B – 0.04%
    Covid – 900k on 8B – 0.01%

    AIDS ~ 36M on 5B – 0.7% .. Odd we didn’t isolate the male gay population, isn’t it ?

  10. H B Bear

    Our expert political class will have some explaining to do with this death count and the economic damage, and so to the CCP.

    If HCL is safe and effective (I do not profess to know one way or another) you can guarantee we will never find out.

  11. H B Bear

    AIDS was the first politicised disease. Covid seems likely to be the second.

  12. Frogger

    It’s a bit hard to co-ordinate dissent when Faceborg as an example, probably prompted by state based authorities takes down groups advocating protest and dissent against our current quasi totalitarian rule. “Millions Rise for Australia” which garnered 110k users within a matter of weeks was taken down today. Probably to throw a spanner in the works for the upcoming CBD protest. Sure, there were a few crackpots in the group but what do you expect with such large numbers. But the main drive was to protest and rage against this creeping Australian/Victorian totalitarianism. There are a number of offshoots of this group still around and moves to take the group onto platforms more conducive to free speech and thought but the forces of state and tech censorship, media duplicity, still serve to drive a stake into any sprouting of dissent.

  13. notafan

    It’s the fines and the constant police patrols.

    Even at the park in the leafies.

    Nothing to do with the convicts of 170 or more years ago.

    How many people in Victoria have convict ancestry?

    I have a great great uncle by marriage. That’s it.

  14. Peter Smith

    Better Steve to put deaths from pandemics as a percentage of the population. Covid-19 would look even more trivial in the historical scheme of things.

  15. min

    My ancestors came out for the gold rush one was an assayer from Cornwall , another listed as a ship’s passenger as a midwife and literate In 1800s . I would think not too many here came as convicts . Andrews has put out misleading information to cover his incompetence , plus the police patrolling and fining those breaking rules . Many unemployed so struggling with finances however I expect there to be angry backlash if lockdown extended.

  16. Watch Your Back

    Governments and the police in Australia have the authoritarian gene. You are seeing this now, but it’s always been there, a mindset based on control, illegal edict and harsh punishments. The police are simply bullies.

  17. Terry

    ‘Governments and the police in Australia have the authoritarian gene.’

    Absolutely. Which is why both should be given a very, very short leash and be answerable directly to the public.

    The size of government and its bureaucracies has now become dangerous to the average citizen, whether it is their health, wealth, freedom, or happiness.

    Until this is fixed (and it is only the people that can choose to fix this) we are destined doomed to live under the jackboot, and the illusion that Australians are actually free will remain just that.

  18. sfw

    Didn’t someone say that the problem with Australia is not that we have too many people descended from convicts but too many descended from prison guards?

    Notafan, no convicts on mums side, but all of my dads gg grandparents (men and women) all transported here.

  19. John A

    Chris M #3567694, posted on September 1, 2020, at 3:10 pm

    this one extenuating circumstance to explain our craven submission to authority

    You don’t think the outrageously punitive fines have anything to do with it? A large police force trained to despise the citizens and act as a bouncer squad?

    It’s not even the $1652 fines but rather the fines on businesses of $20,000 plus. Those are the real killers. Their effect is to turn the employer into a local policing force because the impact on the business is too massive to contemplate any kind of civil disobedience.

    I wear a face-covering at work but I have signed the workplace consent form “Under Protest” and my employer knows that I do it for their sake. If my civil disobedience only resulted in my own penalties that would be OK but I don’t want my employer shut down because of me – that would kill their business and put lots of my work colleagues out of a job.

    And that is why I insist on calling the Premier evil and malevolent, rather than incompetent.

    I have just launched another fiery riposte in the specific direction of my local member whose reply was full of platitudes and misinformation, carefully avoiding the points I made previously, holding out hope for a vaccine (“in a few months”) and disingenuously saying nothing about HCQ. I concluded with the warning that this government is on notice to pull up its collective socks because it has consumed whatever political capital it may have had.

  20. Rohan

    A lot of people are unable to risk imprisonment due to their position. Such as firearm owners or senior managment. Of most people I know, very few people who agree with the lockdown. Most are those who aren’t, are livid.

    Dickhead Dan has done his dash. The silent majority are not happy.

  21. Mustapha Bunn

    “Australians all let us rejoice
    For we are young and free”.
    Here in Melbourne,at least,we are not Australians.
    Can’t leave our house for 23 of the 24 hours per day and not at all during curfew.
    Can’t leave the suburb we live in.
    Can’t leave the city we live in.
    Can’t ;eave the state we live in.
    Can’t leave the country we live in.
    Time to change,at least, the first two lines of the National Anthem …

  22. mem

    Rohan
    #3567755, posted on September 1, 2020 at 4:21 pm
    A lot of people are unable to risk imprisonment due to their position. Such as firearm owners or senior managment. Of most people I know, very few people who agree with the lockdown. Most are those who aren’t, are livid.
    Dickhead Dan has done his dash. The silent majority are not happy.

    Daniel Andrews has blocked every avenue for an ordinary citizen to protest legitimately other than by posting on a blog. Letters to the paper are binned. I would love to protest but live a long way out of city and by even saying I would like to protest I am liable to get a knock on the door. It is a truly horrific experience to realize that Daniel Andrews has taken all our rights and liberties away and turned Victoria into a police state. Most Victorians are, I think, still in shock. We have been used to respecting and on the whole abiding by the law. Even before the virus the signals were clear that Andrews has no respect for breaking the law. He cheated indeed stole victorians money to get into office and having got away with slap over the wrist has proceeded to do what he likes including corruption of the police force and judiciary. The anger however is now building and Mr Andrews and his maates might be in for a big shock when the denizens realize what he has done to them and their state.(All for their benefit of course)

  23. incoherent rambler

    “Australians all let us recall
    When we were young and free”.
    OR
    “Australians all let us revolt
    Until we’re truly free”.

  24. Wyndham Dix

    Not saying it definitely won’t kill you, but it is still very unlikely.

    QED.

    As of yesterday, Australian deaths from COVID-19 since 22 January 2020 by age group and sex (M/F). Many, doubtless, with co-morbidities:-

    30-39 Two / zero
    40-49 Two / zero
    50-59 Seven / three
    60-69 18 / seven
    70-79 65 / 37
    80-89 107 / 120
    90 and over 72 / 103
    https://www.health.gov.au/resources/covid-19-deaths-by-age-group-and-sex

    Out of a population of more than 25 million, 543 deaths to date from COVID-19 if in fact the influenza virus is correctly reported as the primary cause of death.

    The number of registered deaths in Australia in 2018 was 158,493. Of these, 3,102 resulted from influenza and pneumonia, ranked twelfth of the 20 major causes of death in this country that year. The median age at death in this category was 89.3 years.

    https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/mf/3303.0

  25. Exit Stage Right

    “There is, perhaps, this one extenuating circumstance to explain our craven submission to authority, and particularly Victoria’s, that Australia was founded as a penal colony…”

    Steve, I would have thought that the opposite was true.
    Australians with a colonial background are more likely to be anti-authoritarianism, think Ned Kelly and the Eureka Stockade. I think that still survives within the descendants of those with that heritage.

    Perhaps the resolve of Victorians has been weakened by the multi cultural influx over the past 50 years. Whilst not wanting to single them out, I would think Asian immigrants in particular would be more likely to comply with Government directives and Dickhead Dan’s nonsensical Covid policies than those with a strong colonial link..

  26. Matt

    So much wrong with that infographic – I’m not surprised you’ve jumped all over it.

  27. pat

    behind paywall:

    31 Aug: Australian Financial Review: Exclusive: Andrews faces multibillion-dollar COVID-19 class action claim
    by Patrick Durkin, BOSS Deputy editor
    The Andrews Labor government (IN VICTORIA) is facing a multibillion-dollar COVID-19 bill from businesses shut down during the stage four lockdown for failures in hotel quarantine, in a landmark class action that names Health Minister Jenny Mikakos, Jobs Minister Martin Pakula and their department secretaries.

    The man who successfully sued the Queensland government for as much as $1 billion following the 2011 floods is launching one of the country’s largest claims, expected to be worth billions of dollars and potentially crippling to…
    https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/andrews-faces-multibillion-dollar-covid-19-class-action-claim-20200830-p55qmy

    31 Aug: Yahoo Australia: Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews hit with multi-billion dollar class action claim
    by Jessica Yun
    The Victorian government is facing a potential class action expected to be to the tune of several billion dollars brought by the businesses that have been shut down during the state’s stage four restrictions.
    The class action is open to all Victorian-based businesses that were shut down after 1 July, according to an AFR report, and thousands are expected to take part.

    The lawsuit is being launched by Sydney-based law firm Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan, who are known for successfully winning a class action against the Queensland Government after the November 2011 floods.
    The class action also names Victorian Ministers Jenny Mikakos, Martin Pakula as well as their department secretaries…
    https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/vic-class-action-233952091.html

  28. pat

    1 Sept: news.com.au: Victorian doctors pen desperate letter to Dan Andrews about controversial State of Emergency Bill
    Thirteen top Victorian doctors have united to slam Dan Andrews’ lockdown strategy, saying it has “caused unprecedented negative outcomes”.
    by Anthony Piovesan
    Senior doctors across Melbourne are urging politicians not to support a state of emergency extension, saying the move threatens to “destroy” the health and wellbeing of fed-up Victorians…
    They say it is “vital” stage four restrictions are lifted on September 13, believe “an alternative medical response” is required and highlight key data they think is being “excluded”…
    “When I see my patients and ask them how they’re coping, the number one response is the sadness at not being able to see their grandchildren for three, four or five months and the ones who live on their own are extremely isolated,” he said.
    “The mood of the population has changed dramatically in the past two weeks – there seems to be one half that is getting angrier and angrier and the other half which has just lost all hope – these policies are effecting the general psyche of the community…
    “We now know that whilst COVID-19 is highly contagious, it is of limited virulence.”…

    “We are told that since March 2020, 565 Victorian patients have died either with or from the virus (31st August numbers). This compares with annual Victorian deaths of approximately 10,000 patients with cardiovascular disease and 11,000 with cancer…
    “Accordingly, the COVID-19 deaths are a relatively small proportion of the 114 deaths per day that are normally seen in Victoria. In comparison, since the start of March COVID-19 has been associated with 3 of the 114 deaths per day.
    “Most of the 565 deaths have occurred in nursing homes which according to doctors currently working in this environment have described causal factors related not only to the virus but to other care related issues, including isolation, loneliness, and related diminished nutritional intake.”…

    The doctors go on to write about how Victoria has seen 541 fewer flu deaths this July than last year.
    “In Australia last year, 2019, in the month of July alone we had 71,000 new laboratory-confirmed cases. And a total of 313,000 laboratory confirmed cases of influenza for the year.
    “This is only a fraction of the actual total cases of influenza, as many cases go untested. In August 2017 we had 99,000 new laboratory confirmed cases of Influenza and a total of over 250,000 cases for the year…

    The state recorded 70 new infections overnight, and five more deaths.
    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/victorian-doctors-pen-desperate-letter-to-dan-andrews-about-controversial-state-of-emergency-bill/news-story/477352005ec852b6dd4b0e8f31f97441

    31 Aug: ABC Australia: Victoria has recorded another 41 coronavirus deaths, by far the largest daily increase. So why was the death toll so high?
    By Nicole Mills
    Premier Daniel Andrews said only eight of the deaths reported this morning actually occurred yesterday.
    The other 33 deaths happened in previous weeks.
    At least 37 of the 41 coronavirus deaths reported today were linked to aged care outbreaks.

    Victoria’s Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton said the delay in adding 33 of those to the total was largely due to a change in the way aged care facilities reported coronavirus deaths.
    “There is a reconciliation that we needed to go through,” he said.
    “These are deaths that have happened over previous weeks, including going back to late July.”…

    About three quarters of the state’s 565 deaths are linked to aged care outbreaks.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-31/why-was-victorias-coronavirus-death-toll-so-high-today/12612106

  29. Nob

    But it is likely to kill if you are elderly and with morbid conditions.

    “More likely” but still not terribly likely.

    Give the “convict” argument a rest will you?
    The majority of Victorians alive now are descended from people who arrived in Australia after 1945.
    They have very little connection with Australian history.

    The Dan-Fans see the low numbers as evidence of success , and will not be shaken from their belief. In fact they’re shouting for more extreme measures.

    They cannot see why anyone is criticising, except MurdocKKK. It would take the arrival of a Cortez to shake their faith in daily human sacrifice.

  30. Fin.

    About 1/3 of Australia was never a penal colony. SA et NT. It shows.

  31. Bela Bartok

    All the talk of them silent majority’ and ‘we’re all livid’, ‘we won’t take it’ etc. doesn’t mean squat to Dan… he’ll skulk away when the time is right, to a nice-feather-bedded existence and not give any of us, or the complaints, a minute’s thought.
    Lose the election? So what – he’s got Labor/Union sinecure for life…
    Bring back piano wire.

  32. Nob

    Fin.
    #3567846, posted on September 1, 2020 at 5:37 pm
    About 1/3 of Australia was never a penal colony. SA et NT. It shows.

    So what?

    Australia’s free population has been very mobile from Day 1, and it just went haywire after the gold rush.
    More free settlers arrived in one year in the 1850s than all the convicts of 80 years transportation put together.

    People crossed borders a lot more easily before Federation than they do in 2020!

  33. notafan

    SA and NT

    Up there with Tasmania as medicament states.

  34. Nob

    medicament

    Nice word. Whatever it means.

  35. PB

    The intensity of the Victorian lockdown correlates with Daniel Andrews desire to cover himself against his and Labor’s incompetence in treating Hotel quarantine as a slush for Labor hacks. This is not happening in any other State, so that means he is politically, and personally, responsible for what has happened to Victoria.

    Incompetence that has even exceeded that of the Kirner administration. A hard act to follow, but follow it he has. Makes one yearn for the firm, guiding hand of “Snappy” Tom Roper.

  36. PB

    “SA and NT

    Up there with Tasmania as medicament states.”

    Mendicant. beware the spellcheck.

  37. PB

    “Victoria’s Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton said the delay in adding 33 of those to the total was largely due to a change in the way aged care facilities reported coronavirus deaths.
    “There is a reconciliation that we needed to go through,” he said.
    “These are deaths that have happened over previous weeks, including going back to late July.”…”

    Which isn’t how the trash media reported it.

  38. David Brewer

    I agree with Steve about the penal colony heritage. It’s not how many of us are descended from convicts, what counts is the mentality of government here since Day 1. Notice that just about the only other country with absurdly high penalties for not wearing useless face nappies is Ireland – 2500 euro fine and 6 months jail. No coincidence it was also run by the Poms for many generations against the sullen resentment of most of the native population.

  39. Iain Russell

    Overwhelmingly Vics are pubes, bureaucrats and/Or union goons. Why rebel against the coffers that fatten their arses?

  40. PB

    BTW, did you all know that the Vic government laid off all the casual nurses employed for COVID testing? They blame the people for not coming forward, but in actuality they are working to reduce the numbers tested to reduce the numbers found while pretending otherwise. Part of the Andrews cover-up I suspect.

    This is active goss from within the Nursing community.

  41. The Sheriff

    The problem isn’t convict descendants or non-convict descendants. It’s mostly white females brainwashed by a useless uni degree at a fake uni who then go and get fake jobs in the public service or, if at a corporate, something equally rubbish like “CSR Advisor” or “Communications” or “Stakeholder Management” or “Diversity & Inclusion Bitch”

  42. Ed Case

    The problem is that somewhere in the recent past we started believing women were serious people.
    For all of History prior to that, beliefs about women corresponded to reality, i.e., were evidence based.

  43. Chris M

    Andrews faces multibillion-dollar COVID-19 class action claim

    Unfortunately they are not suing Andrews, how won’t pay anything – they are suing the taxpayers, their own customers and neighbours.

    Andrews needs to be hit with criminal charges and tried interstate. Then sue every single member of the Vikpol that was active in breaking Australian constitutional law.

  44. John snowy Bowyer

    Few people died, massive labour incompetence and a dark green CMO. Now extended by two independants and a green. Dan has promised each of them something that will further cost us.
    The real villains are the Main Stream Media. Vacuous, lazy and stupid. I have visited the various Royal Commissions and the courts. If these scum actually turn up then it is for no more than ten minutes blocks and then off to goodness knows where.
    We should trump the media and do our own reporting such as the revelation that Hawk had an affair with Gratten let’s have more of this.

  45. nb

    ‘Andrews faces multibillion-dollar COVID-19 class action claim’
    Victorians sue themselves for being so stupid as to elect Andrews. Hopeful for a big win.

  46. Petros

    It’s worth remembering that Melbourne was once called Batmania.

  47. Nob

    Petros
    #3568050, posted on September 1, 2020 at 8:00 pm
    It’s worth remembering that Melbourne was once called Batmania.

    It was never called Batmania.
    The name was suggested by some wags, was shot down at the time, then picked up by various bullshitters , the Bruce Pascoes of their times, as a historical fact.

  48. Lee

    Victorians sue themselves for being so stupid as to elect Andrews.

    Not this Victorian.
    Never.

  49. Nob

    TIL that “medicament” is an actual word.
    Usage peaked in 1891.
    mdicament graph

    I thought it was a portmanteau for a predicament brought on by letting medical officers run government.

  50. Squirrel

    Convict ancestry or not, compliance of/tolerance for arbitrary restrictions is greatly assisted by the disbursement of large amounts of Magic Pudding money – when the magic wears off, and the money starts to run out, so might the patience of larger numbers of punters for restrictions which make no obvious sense.

  51. Empire 5:5

    It’s how foreign elites perceive the general populace.
    Complacent, passive and malleable.

    It’s why social engineering campaigns get road tested on Australians before global release.
    Critical and independent thinking aren’t culturally pervasive.
    We’re a bellwether for sycophantic submission to sociopaths.

    The virus is real.
    The threat is fictional.
    The response is despotic.

  52. Steve

    Spread the word……

    94% of deaths “from covid” are actually due to pre-existing medical conditions.

    Oh dear Comrade Dan…there goes all your fun. If Vic had 524 “covid deaths” on 30/08/2020, then applying the
    formula of 524/100*6 = 31.44 deaths actually *from* covid itself. The rest…diabetes, heart issues…etc.

    Official US CDC report here :

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR3-wrg3tTKK5-9tOHPGAHWFVO3DfslkJ0KsDEPQpWmPbKtp6EsoVV2Qs1Q

    Good summary here :

    https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/new-cdc-report-shows-94-of-covid-19-deaths-in-us-had-underlying-medical-conditions/

    Covid isnt about the disease – its about imprisoning a whole population in some sick, sadist fantasy. The sooner these sickos running it are removed legally from power, the better.

  53. Neville

    … “martial” law …

  54. The virus is real.
    The threat is fictional.
    The response is despotic.

    Yep.

  55. Empire 5:5

    Consider ministerial (and perhaps public officer in this instance) scope and qualified immunity.

    The objective of the next generation of asymmetric lawfare is to use the ambulance chasing infrastructure created by the enemy against them, to personally bankrupt every despotic parasite culpable for this act of war by the state, against the citizens it is bound to serve.

  56. Matt

    Can’t believe that people here are still mis-interpreting the 6% CDC report.

  57. Hmmm …

    https://pushingrubberdownhill.com/2020/08/30/the-convict-stain/

    Steve, if you are still reading my site then a H/T would be nice.

  58. Bruce in WA

    Can’t believe that people here are still mis-interpreting the 6% CDC report.

    Matt, here’s a bit of friendly advice.

    Fuck off before you truly regret posting here.

  59. Empire 5:5

    Matt
    #3568119, posted on September 1, 2020 at 8:55 pm
    Can’t believe that people here are still mis-interpreting the 6% CDC report.

    Could be as low as 6%. Happy now?

    The substantive issue is all cause mortality/ excess deaths. That is, the issue the self-declared body-politic of bureaucrats, j’ismists, lobbyists, pro-trolls, cadres and MPs have avoided at all cost.

    It is unclear if the CDC dataset is of much value at this point. The method was intentionally muddled.

  60. Matt

    Doesn’t sound particularly friendly Bruce – and it’s way too entertaining for me to leave.

  61. Dinky

    Leave Matt alone Bruce, every village needs its idiot.

  62. Matt

    This village is full already.

  63. Rex Anger

    This village is full already

    That’s because there’s just so much of you, doc…

  64. Bruce in WA

    Doesn’t sound particularly friendly Bruce – and it’s way too entertaining for me to leave.

    No, Matt, not meant to be friendly at all.

    Leave Matt alone Bruce, every village needs its idiot.

    Well I wish they’d give him a call …

  65. Tel

    Matt could you just link to anything of any value that you have contributed?

    Where you have explained something, or put forward a logical argument … thanks in advance.

  66. Matt

    Read the CDC report – for the majority of deaths where COVID-19 is reported on the death certificate (approximately 95%), COVID-19 is selected as the underlying cause of death. For the others, COVID-19 may have contributed to the death, but the underlying cause of death was another cause, such as terminal cancer.
    So to claim that only 6% of deaths were caused by COVID-19 and the remaining 94% died of other causes is simply not correct.
    It also shows excess deaths, which have been significantly higher in the USA since the end of March. This is consistent with data from Europe where all cause mortality is reported.

  67. Ed Case

    Lifted this directly from another site:
    73,500 are listed as “all other causes”. That’s 40% of the total of 185,000, which is a huge amount of
    fudge. But I guess OLD AGE fits into this category. It also means they are admitting they don’t know
    why most of these people died, only that they did. But if they don’t know why these people died, then
    they can’t know that they died of Covid, right? Logic.

  68. Matt

    Do you have the link to that quote Ed?

  69. Ed Case

    Do you dispute the gist of the quote, Matt?

  70. Matt

    I’m interested in actually reading the whole document. What does ‘73,500 listed as other causes’ refer to.

  71. Ed Case

    The CDC Report, the document you read and are commenting on, remember?

  72. Matt

    You’re referring to this in relation to contributing factors:
    All other conditions and causes (residual) A00–A39, A42–B99, D00–E07, E15–E64, E70–E90, F00, F02, F04–G26, G31–H95, K00–K93, L00–M99, N00–N16, N20–N99, O00–O99, P00–P96, Q00–Q99, R00–R08, R09.0, R09.1, R09.3, R09.8, R10–R99

    COVID-19 is listed on the death certificate as the underlying cause in ~95% of deaths – that is the primary cause that led to death. For example, COVID-19 infection leads to pneumonia leads to death. Without COVID-19, the person wouldn’t have pneumonia and wouldn’t have died.

    There are also things listed on the death certificate that are considered to contribute to the cause of death but are not involved in the chain of events that resulted in the underlying cause of death.

    As an example, from the list above of items that are listed as contributing to but not causing death:
    R00 Abnormalities of heart beat
    R01 Cardiac murmurs and other cardiac sounds
    R03 Abnormal blood-pressure reading, without diagnosis
    R04 Hemorrhage from respiratory passages
    R05 Cough
    R06 Abnormalities of breathing
    R07 Pain in throat and chest

  73. Os

    Steve, Australia was not founded as a penal colony, New South Wales and Tasmania were. South Australia and Western Australia were founded as free settler colonies. WA asked for convicts in 1850, 21 years after establishment. My father’s family got to SA in 1836, my mother’s family to Swan River in 1830, all free settlers.

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