“It is a principle of our law that fundamental freedoms cannot be invaded or overruled unless the law specifically allows it”

Both videos are found on an American post titled ‘I couldn’t breathe’: Aussie woman dragged from car in dramatic altercation with police at lockdown checkpoint (VIDEO). And no matter how you look at it, it is impossible to defend the police. It would not have mattered had they arrested her for some reason associated with CV-19, but madly that was not even why.

An officer had told her that it was illegal to have a mobile phone mounted on a windscreen and that the device was obstructing her view.

This tweet contains footage similar to the original video which has already been widely seen with commentary by Rita Panahi.

This is an extended video of the aftermath at the “scene of the crime”.

This is more than just an Australian story, although it is shameful just as it is. Peter Hitchens writes with regard to the UK: How the Government is wading into the swamp of despotism – one muzzle at a time. What he writes applies to Australia as much as it does to the UK.

The Government has no legal right to impose the severe and miserable restrictions on our lives with which it has wrecked the economy, brought needless grief to the bereaved and the lonely and destroyed our personal liberty.

This is the verdict of one of the most distinguished lawyers in the country, the retired Supreme Court Judge Lord Sumption.

He said last week in a podcast interview: ‘I don’t myself believe that the Act confers on the Government the powers that it has purported to exercise.’He was referring to the Public Health Act of 1984, the basis for almost all the sheaves of increasingly hysterical decrees against normal life which the Health Secretary Matt Hancock has issued since March. I promise you that it is not usual for a retired senior judge to use such language in public.

This 1984 Act was drawn up mainly to give local magistrates the power to quarantine the sick.

Nothing in it remotely justifies these astonishing moves – house arrest, travel restrictions, harsh limits on visiting family members, interference with funerals and weddings, closure of churches, compulsory muzzles, bans on assembly and protest.

English law just does not allow an Act of Parliament to be stretched so far.

Lord Sumption was referring to the Public Health Act of 1984, the basis for almost all the sheaves of increasingly hysterical decrees against normal life which the Health Secretary Matt Hancock (above) has issued since March. I promise you that it is not usual for a retired senior judge to use such language in public.

Lord Sumption was referring to the Public Health Act of 1984, the basis for almost all the sheaves of increasingly hysterical decrees against normal life which the Health Secretary Matt Hancock (above) has issued since March. I promise you that it is not usual for a retired senior judge to use such language in public.

Magistrates are never given such powers. It is a principle of our law that fundamental freedoms cannot be invaded or overruled unless the law specifically allows it.

We seem to have found a very important flaw in how our laws are drafted and applied. The elections to come will be about little else but remedying these major flaws in our legal systems.

In the meantime, read the whole of Hitchens’ article. There’s much much more about Melbourne in his story that should be read by us all.

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91 Responses to “It is a principle of our law that fundamental freedoms cannot be invaded or overruled unless the law specifically allows it”

  1. nb

    The A4-sized permits required to be stuck onto windscreens are a far greater obstacle to vision than an appropriately placed phone holder. Arbitrary rule-enforcement.

  2. NoFixedAddress

    We seem to have found a very important flaw in how our laws are drafted and applied. The elections to come will be about little else but remedying these major flaws in our legal systems.

    It turns out that there is no democracy in The Australian Public Service Government ™

  3. Megan

    We seem to be powerless to stop it. It’s clear this is total overkill. The ninja turtle outfits at Vic market are completely ridiculous.
    And Chief Wiggum wouldn’t know ethics or integrity if it bit him on his not inconsiderable arse.

  4. Dusty

    >Fundamental freedoms cannot be invaded or overruled.
    He could have said this. Doesn’t matter what everyone else says, you have the right to life, liberty, and property. It’s actually hilarious reading about a magistrate who sees all the things that could have gone wrong with the powers he has suddenly realizing “BUT NOT LIKE THIS!”.
    This is the bed you made, you statist prick.

  5. John Comnenus

    I don’t understand why anyone would remain in VICPOL unless they are a fascist. And what was that riot pack assault into the Victoria Markets about?

  6. John Comnenus

    Unfortunately, Lord Sumption, fundamental rights can be taken quite easily just like we have seen in Victoria. It is way past time for the Federal Government to step in, but alas, that would require a Federal Government with principles. The Federal Government won’t even criticise Victoria or their evil police.

  7. Herodotus

    The coming election should be one about clubbing all ALP and greens jerkoffs at the ballot box and electing anyone but them, regardless. But we are talking about Victorians, who have learnt nothing from the recent past, and voted out the Kennett government by a small margin just like the nongs in QLD did Newman, and got a bunch of mindless jerks and corrupticons whose only tactic is to bloat the PS and the welfare dependent vote herds.

  8. PB

    The “naughty schoolboy” analogy sums up the Daniel Andrews over-compensation to a tee. He and his Party screwed up royally, and are now abusively trying to undo the damage that they did with their reckless incompetence and plain malfeasance.

  9. Crossie

    The Federal Government won’t even criticise Victoria or their evil police.

    Wait, wait, ScoMo hasn’t started yet pleading with Dastardly Dan.

  10. PB

    Do the Vicpol stop and assault Uber drivers for obscuring their view with Uber (and Lyft) labels on their windscreen?

  11. Chris

    This is not a serious criminal matter.
    It is a minor traffic matter punishable by a fine.
    Complete over reaction by all involved including the driver.
    She did however refuse to provide her drivers licence details, which is an offence, and meant she was then unable to be issued an infringement notice.
    While she has contributed to what happened, dragging her out of the car and handcuffing her cannot be justified. The police had her registration and COVID permit details so could have (indeed should have) de-escalated the situation and proceeded by way of summons. Depriving a person of heir liberty by arrest, especially when it involves the application of force, is always the last resort and is one of the first things taught at Australian police academies. I am certain it would also be in VICPOL Policy documents and standard operating procedures.
    Unfortunately the policy message coming from the government and police executive is so extreme that there will inevitably be more of these situations as operational police come to believe they no longer have the discretion to act in the manner expected in a civilised country.

  12. Mother Lode

    Cornelius – the logo for Corn Flakes.

    I remember that.

    Another famous Cornelius. Remember Planet of the Apes – the original one.

    There is something telling pithecoid about the behaviour of the Vikplod.

    And I would say so, except our elites have decreed the word ‘ape’ being applied to human can only have racist meaning, and since they look white, and it being impossible to be racist against white people, it would be like saying ‘they are poasidapsojcpio’.

  13. TPL001

    I do not understand why there is such surprise. Although I am dismayed by what is happening now, with the corona virus as the vehicle, and the politicisation of the police is the tool, I saw this years ago when looking at certain legislation, as it arrogates supreme power in the hands of the appropriate minister under certain conditions.

    I understand that Victorians get what they vote for (i.e. the tyrannical response of the ALP masquerading as justice), but there must be more. The poor sods at the Queen Victoria Market do not do themselves any favours by denying corona-virus, but they are entitled to believe what they want. This is social control. It is ironic that it comes from those on the left, who tout a social justice view of the world. It is always the same: socialism is just a front for tyranny. The posts here (on the Cat) paint a particular view of the Premier, which is not good.

    As this situation now applies in Victoria, Paul Murray on Sky quite correctly articulated what happened two weeks ago in the Legislative Council, that those who voted with the ALP handed them a blank cheque. And the ALP have banked it. It is no surprise that we have State of Emergency extended another four weeks.

    The test will be this week, though, true to form, I believe that there will be a reason(s) why Premier Daniel Andrews will not release regional Victoria, certainly not two steps but possibly also not even one step. The cynical corollary is that there will be reasons why, under “Victoria’s roadmap for reopening,” the third-step transition on October 26 for metropolitan Melbourne will not be possible.

    A different perspective: I recall one oral exam, years ago at Monash. Some may recall Assoc Prof Ian Ward, as socialist as they come, but noble minded. I presented my oral spiel (instead of writing an essay) on Mises’ decimating argument on why socialism (in the Marxist-Leninist sense) could not work. It comes down to having no price mechanism: prices serve as signals to producers and consumers on capital allocation. Under a socialist commonwealth, without prices signals indicating profit opportunities — the one thing they want to eliminate — the state cannot correctly allocate financial capital to the most needed and urgent capital investments:
    https://mises.org/library/economic-calculation-socialist-commonwealth
    (That is why government should not create so much legislation to control prices.) After the oral, Ward’s comments were striking: he did not believe that Australia could become a socialist state. There is too much in the Australian psyche that adheres to Western principles of private property, freedom of choice, movement, etc. It only took the USSR 70 some years after Mises’ 1920 essay to realise that he was right. As an side, the same notion of economic control by the state in a socialist state is prevalent in Keynes’s approach to macroeconomics.

  14. Robber Baron

    The experiment with Marxism always ends the same way.

    Our choice is to fight or run.

  15. Bribiejohn

    I’m not sure who said it,Chairman Dan or Joseph Goebels,
    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
    Hard to tell but the quote is Joseph Goebells

  16. Up The Workers!

    The last VicPol ‘Assistant Commissioner for Police Integrity’ was sacked when it was discovered that he didn’t possess any.

    The current clods in Farce Command evidently decided to continue the Patton.

  17. Ceres

    That cop went from zero to ballistic in 5 seconds. Because he can, such is the appalling climate in Victoriastan under Dan and Commandant Wiggum.

  18. Philby


    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    Hearing that Iran is looking to execute a great and popular wrestling star, 27-year-old Navid Afkarai, whose sole act was an anti-government demonstration on the streets. They were protesting the “country’s worsening economic situation and inflation”…

    Looks like we don’t have far to go hey

  19. cuckoo

    Got very excited on Saturday when Nein News led the evening bulletin with “Premier gives ground”. FINALLY, I thought. Turns out ‘giving ground’ means allowing pet groomers to re-open one stage earlier.

  20. H B Bear

    It would be helpful if these videos featured someone other than complete fruitcakes. But even fruitcakes have rights at law.

  21. MatrixTransform

    allowing pet groomers to re-open one stage earlier.

    this is what happens when animal rights loons are elected to the upper house

    Queensland … take note

  22. Rex Anger

    Turns out ‘giving ground’ means allowing pet groomers to re-open one stage earlier.

    Fur real?! :\

    The Groomers’ Union must have finally had enough…

    Maybe the regular citizens of Victoria need to unionise, appoint some suitably ‘deplorable’ and head-kicky ‘heads’ and ‘representatives’ and get stuck into Trades Hall.

    Viktoristani Cats, Assemble! 😉

  23. Chris M

    I don’t understand why anyone would remain in VICPOL unless they are a fascist.

    Exactly John. Anyone with integrity and moral decency would have bailed out by now, the remainder are degenerated to an armed gang roughing up people for money in accord with the dictates of the dictator.

  24. MatrixTransform

    Victoria has a Poodle Economy now

  25. Rural

    Just as an aside I hope the boot featured above doesn’t get thrown out. With the sole glued back on and the leather suitably dressed, it will last another 20 years! Speaking from experience.

  26. Rex Anger

    @Marrix Transform-

    That must be the mythical 5th reason to be outside. “Getting your Pet Professionally Groomed”

    How long until we have mass dog walks, with guerilla baristas and hairdressers posing as ‘pet groomers’ in the middle of [Insert name of significant Melbourne/Regional Viktoristani-Town-That-Is-Nor-Seymour-Ballarat-Swan-Hill-Or-Echuca-Cos-These-Are-The-Ones-That-I-Know-Of public space/square here]?

  27. lily

    I wonder how these fully armed men (if you can call them that I could think of better names) treat their wives and partners?

  28. Rural

    The Public Health Act of 1984! A bit Orwellian is it not?

  29. Rex Anger

    Not sure where you are going with that, lily.

    Are you defaming police as potential abusers because they carry firearms?

    If so, you risk tarring many organisations and law-abidng firearms owners with the same generalising brush, and damning people rather than ibstiutions.

    It is a dangerous precedent as theirs…

  30. Diogenes

    Are you defaming police as potential abusers because they carry firearms?

    I read that as they are thugs in public, what must they be like at home ?

  31. Rex Anger

    I read that as they are thugs in public, what must they be like at home ?

    I might too, Diogenes, but regardless of how awful Vikpol might be, I would personally not.like to see this replicated in any Australian state. Even one as far gone as Viktoristan.

    It starts with general contempt for policemen, over the shitty direction they are given
    Then institutional (theirs) and personal (their victims’) delay in calling out unlawful behaviour.

    I will not defend Vikpol. Not once. But I will express caution over personalising the contempt at theor actions. We all still need to live together once this is over. Same as America does…

  32. Mother Lode

    What does not make sense to me is the unrestrained aggression of these police. We are seeing people immobile, pinned to the ground, and some cunstable will walk up and belt them with a baton.

    The guy in the above clip is on the ground, in a daze, lifting himself slightly more out of instinct, completely in the power of the amassed cunstables, no threat to them at all, and they stomp on his head?

    Where is all this rage coming from?

    And they do it in public where they can expect people to be filming them.

  33. Mustapha Bunn

    The Plod involved in that road block at Wallan was a Highway Patrol “officer”,obviously pissed off that he is no longer chasing motorists for being 5 Kms over the limit. There is a T.V. programme here in Victoria that features the Highway Patrol. All the times that I have watched it I have never seen anyone pulled from a car like that young lady was. In fact I can’t recall any driver being asked to get out and there have been many Potty mouths featured. After seeing the Ninja Turtles in action yesterday at the Queen Vic. market I expect that assault by the police will become the norm unless,of course,your politics are on the correct side.

  34. incoherent rambler

    what must they be like at home ?

    And they surely park in they disabled car parking places.
    Once people break one (civil) law, the other laws are easy.

  35. Major Elvis Newton

    Heavily armed riot police and the mounted branch in Melbourne for a group of unarmed protesters exercising their democratic right to protest.

    A thoroughly over-the-top and disproportionate response to a non-existent threat.

    No wonder the rest of the world is horrified at the draconian tactics for compliance under the Victorian government.

    I expect the flight out of Victoria to more favourable jurisdictions to accelerate as a result of this heavy handedness.

  36. Rex Anger

    What does not make sense to me is the unrestrained aggression of these police. We are seeing people immobile, pinned to the ground, and some cunstable will walk up and belt them with a baton.

    The guy in the above clip is on the ground, in a daze, lifting himself slightly more out of instinct, completely in the power of the amassed cunstables, no threat to them at all, and they stomp on his head?

    Where is all this rage coming from?

    Lack of training? Lack of appropriate training in de-escalation, even.

    Maybe combined with some sort of unofficial directive to project power and cow the punters who might be watching.

    Maybe the attitude adopted is that anyone out of doors is a de facto felon until confirmed as inmocent?

    I’d like to know where the quiet, clued-in older and more emotionally mature coppers are. Who spot the puffed-out pregnant lady on the park bench, for example, and engage in a conversation, before declaring “Hang the Code and Hange the Rules! before offering said lady a ride home. Leave the others to keep patrolling on foot.

    It just seems that they are not the ones being filmed. It is a shame, as they wear the disgrace of their arsehole colleagues and their decency is forgotten.

  37. Joanna Smythe

    It has been very easy to turn Victoria into a totally Socialist State. Practically no push back, only a few vocal journalists moaning about it, which in effect means nothing. AP in Queensland now seems to be following in his footsteps and soon that State will be the same. The socialist disease will probably spread because that’s the plan. China doesn’t have to start a war, our politicians seem to be doing the job for them.

  38. candy

    It’s just a stunt for social media, for attention, perhaps some modelling work or money.

    Childish and stupid. Claimed four policeman put their knees on her back and she could not breathe.
    Ridiculous stunt.

  39. Rob MW

    I stopped watching the second video at about halfway through when the balaclavaed copper that pulled the lady out of the car started justifying his wrongful actions to the lady by putting words into her mouth to get some sort of agreement from her. Obviously the armed and fully trained copper experienced exhilaration at his own actions, not so much for the lady victim.

    Looks to me that Victoria is lost and that the Murray River should be renamed the 38th Parallel except that it is the North that is free and the South under the thumb of the communist dictator Dan Kimurallfucked.

  40. Mother Lode

    I can sort of understand the image of the riot police with their plastic hoplons*: They wanted to intimidate anyone else considering standing up to the current regulatory regime.

    Add to that reports of numerous arrests and the deliberately exorbitant fines.

    * Hoplon is the word commonly used for the large round shield that the Greek hoplites used to use – although the Greeks called their shield an ‘aspis’ – I had to look up the last bit.

  41. Hay Stockard

    Rob MW,
    Same here. You can tell that some last skerries of humanity has let it dawn on them they had done the wrong thing..
    VicPol should be shunned the same way one would shun a rabid skunk. Nothing redeeming about them at all.

  42. I understand that Vicpol is seeing unprecedented resignations from its ranks.
    So what will replace them, and from which section of society will they come from?
    Considering the quality of the state politicians decisions, we need to give this question considerable thought.

  43. rickw

    What function does a Right to Keep and Bear Arms have in a Modern Society?

    None. It’s for when Modern Society takes a great leap backwards.

    Everything is meaningless unless it is backed up with real power and force.

    Rights of Citizens are merely vapour unless they have a means by which they might be enforced.

  44. John A

    PB #3584152, posted on September 14, 2020, at 7:06 am

    The “naughty schoolboy” analogy sums up the Daniel Andrews over-compensation to a tee. He and his Party screwed up royally, and are now abusively trying to undo the damage that they did with their reckless incompetence and plain malfeasance.

    No, PB, they are trying only to hide the damage, avoid responsibility and justify themselves after the fact.

  45. cuckoo

    Heavily armed riot police and the mounted branch in Melbourne for a group of unarmed protesters exercising their democratic right to protest.

    The robocop outfits were not for the mostly middle-aged, middle-class protesters at the Queen Vic market, they were for the TV cameras. It’s theatre to warn the ‘citizens’ who are watching on the 6pm bulletin, in case they were getting any ideas.

    “Do you have any advice for the kids here today, Robocop?”
    “Stay-out-of-trouble”

  46. PB

    “No, PB, they are trying only to hide the damage, avoid responsibility and justify themselves after the fact.”

    You are right and you said it perfectly. Thank you.

  47. Chris M

    But I will express caution over personalising the contempt at theor actions

    Rex you seem to be not quite getting it. Police in Australia are incomparably different to police in the USA where they actually and primarily fight crime and are – for the most part – not themselves the perpetrators of injustice. I know it varies between states but overall the intent and operation is a very, very different affair like London Bobby vs Gestapo different.

  48. Frank

    I don’t understand why anyone would remain in VICPOL unless they are a fascist.

    Roids, meth and tatts don’t come cheap you know.

  49. Rex Anger

    Chris M-

    When I refer to personalising contempt, I mean dehumanising and hating the man under the blue suit and body armour.

    If state police forces need a damn good cleaning out or outright institutional replacement, I do not achieve this by fostering a personal hatred of the man, and maybe attempting to.mrder him in cold blood, a la Compton.

    As previously stated, it seems the decent people in Vikpol are expreasing their vote of confidence in.the institution and its policies by voting with their feet. That is the principle that shpuld be cheered by Cats, not whether I get why the police are treated with such disdain and suspicion (Trust me, I get that bit very much, and do not disagree…)

  50. Philby

    Disturbing account on 3AW by father whose son was allegedly run down by a police car then pepper sprayed and head stomped by police. The man’s crime according to the father was his son is bipolar voluntarily checked into hospital to seek medical help but after a day and a half in emergency decided to leave . The result is he has apparently been charged with damaging a police vehicle, I kid you not and according to his father he was returned to hospital and was in an induced coma in ICU supposedly due to the kicks to the head. Neil Mitchell claims 2 witnesses have come forward and he has videos.

  51. Rex Anger

    The robocop outfits were not for the mostly middle-aged, middle-class protesters at the Queen Vic market, they were for the TV cameras. It’s theatre to warn the ‘citizens’ who are watching on the 6pm bulletin, in case they were getting any ideas.

    Visual/psych deterrents can only be used sparingly and for a limted time.

    The USMC commander in Somalia in 1993 found that his M1A1 Abrams MBTs had a remarkable claming effect when rolled out in front of riotous or rioting Somalis, but their presence was soon ignored once the locals figured out the Marine tankies were not going to hose them down.

    This lesson is lost on Chief Wiggum and Vikpol, as the increasing unrest and chatter on sites like the Cat demonstrates.

    One wonders of the show of force is actually for the LockDrones like our very own mUnted, and blow-in paid enforcers like Matt the ‘front-line’ ‘medical worker.’ You know, to keep the morale up…

  52. Fair Shake

    My dog died last week. This week Chairman Dan brings in relief for Poodle Groomers. I’m offended. Where is my woke safe place to find sanctuary? And don’t say Qld cos I do not own a super yacht to get me there.

  53. VICPOL riot gear is a bit over the top to say the least. Don’t recall seeing anything quite like it in US police departments and they have a far more serious problem.

    It all started when they decided to adopt full black even for their top officers.

    ” The ninja turtle outfits at Vic market are completely ridiculous”.

  54. duncanm

    H B Bear
    #3584264, posted on September 14, 2020 at 9:26 am
    It would be helpful if these videos featured someone other than complete fruitcakes. But even fruitcakes have rights at law.

    first they came for the fruitcakes..

  55. Graeme McC

    Up until now the only people dressed in black with their faces covered and causing mayhem were the Antifi crowd. Are these ‘police’ actually Antifa thugs recruited by Andrews? How would you know? I would like to add that while I may or may not agree with the protesters the heavy handed behaviour by the police is totally unacceptable. I have had calls from friends in 5 different country’s who are concerned for our safety after seeing what is happening here. They see it as martial law in what they thought was a democracy. Andrews and your henchmen… you do not scare me.

  56. duncanm

    Where is all this rage coming from?

    What’s instructional in that video.. is that bystanders are stopping and telling the police off.

    That didn’t used to happen. Average Joe has lost respect for them.

  57. Richard

    The degradation of the police is astonishing. They degrade themselves. As far as I was aware, the Police are not our betters. They are equal to us. THeir job is to enforce the law, and that can be a tough gig at times. But there’s this particularly ugly Aussie MALE attitude (and I write this as a man) that “because I have some degree of power, I am superior to you, and therefore YOU will respect me (or else I’ll get 4 more similarly authoritarian policeMEN to come and reinforce my authority over you). ” We see this all through the video. She disagrees and his voice drops DOWN an octave and he barks orders at her. At this point it doesnt even matter what she did wrong. Who does he think he is to interact with another human being like that that.

    I totally understand the attitude of pother posters who ask the question “what are these thugs like with the other women in their lives”. They’re almost certainly NOT domestic abusers, but the attitude is all pervasive.

    And what’s with the bloke essentially wearing a balaclava? You know its come down to US vs THEM when you get to that stage. And did you hear him announce that he wasnt “……going to allow her to drive until she calmed down”. You little tyrant.

    The police have reached the point where they consider themselves to be our parents and we are their naughty 2 years olds. That’s how they treat us now. I start to wonder if Defund The Police might be the way to go………

  58. Kneel

    “As previously stated, it seems the decent people in Vikpol are expreasing their vote of confidence in.the institution and its policies by voting with their feet.”

    Doing that should be their last resort – before they get to that, they should be exercising their discretion and not doing stuff to citizens that they wouldn’t be comfortable having done to them. If police won’t stand up for what’s right, they shouldn’t be police. If they want respect, they should show it to others. And so on…

  59. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From candy at 10:41 am:

    “It’s just a stunt for social media, for attention, perhaps some modelling work or money.

    Childish and stupid. Claimed four policeman put their knees on her back and she could not breathe.
    Ridiculous stunt.”

    I do not know if you are being fair dinkum or facetious, Candy, but I will assume the former.

    I found within a minute or so that I was viewing the same scene as you can find on YouTube, any time in the last decade, acted out in the USA or Britain with the same props and using precisely the same script. There are numerous sites available for you to witness this. For whatever reason it suits some, whoever they are, to create this type of mini-documentary to support their cause, whatever it may be.

    Similarly the the circumstances in Victoria are perfect for any number of anarchist mobs to pursue their agenda – a viewing of the weekend markets unfortunate unhelpful urban disturbance event events showcases familiar looking rioters keeping their skills nicely honed in time for the next G12 world leaders visit or an illegals outbreak. They are not all victimised wymminses barbers and fingernail painters.

    It is difficult to break through the fierce agreement about affront to Victorian we-the-peopleses’ First Amendment Rights under the Constitution to put the point that they are missing some of the plays out there on the field.

  60. lily

    Rex Anger
    You don’t have to carry a firearm to act like a thug, these cops are acting like thugs. If I thought my partner could treat women like he did (dumb she may have been). He wouldn’t get his foot in the door again.

  61. Rayvic

    ““If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
    A real-life example post-Goebbels is ‘man-made climate change”. This fraud will continue to be promoted, unless we get more of the likes of Donald Trumps to shout ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

  62. candy

    I do not know if you are being fair dinkum or facetious, Candy, but I will assume the former.

    Not being facetious, Mick. I believe it’s a stunt by a gal to get a desired result, which is probably attention and youtube video fame.
    Not showing your licence when requested and driving with something hindering view. Basic stuff everyone knows not to do.

  63. Major Elvis Newton

    According to Daniel Andrews:

    “Everyone’s got a responsibility to make the job of police easier, not harder. “

    Really? Why were we not informed of this clear reversal in actual roles.

    If that’s the current attitude in Spring Street and Chief Wiggum’s Command Central then the only thing missing in Victoriastan is droning clomp of jackboots and the clanging of riot shields in the streets deployed against the citizenry.

    Oh, wait.

  64. a reader

    Candy…it doesn’t matter if she was trying to get a rise or not. The behaviour of the police is 100% unacceptable

  65. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Winston Smith at 11:18 am:

    “I understand that Vicpol is seeing unprecedented resignations from its ranks.
    So what will replace them, and from which section of society will they come from?
    Considering the quality of the state politicians decisions, we need to give this question considerable thought.”

    You will recall Winston that Bracks appointed chubbster Nixon a decade ago to imprint her incompetence, so we are well past the point of pondering the quality of what might replace the current lot. They are already the bottom of the barrel. The organisation has had ten years of degradation of every characteristic and it is left with nothing to be proud about.

    Historically the police took in the lower end of society’s classes and the least educated, put them in the hands of older boofheads, cynics and corrupt crooks in uniform who set about keeping the pedigree pure. Now they take in inexperienced young know-alls who will not deal with anything which might soil their hands.

    I cannot think of a single police minister since George Paciullo (’86) and Peter Anderson (’81) – I’m from NSW – who had any interest in police integrity. Along came Premier Carr in the mid ’90s, he appointed a Commissioner who saw himself more like the male lead on Neighbours, and that was the end of that.

    Former Victorian coppers I met 20 years ago, attached to extended family around Yarrawonga, did not impress me – they were big, fat, alcoholic, unfriendly and gruff (to conceal their lack of education) who remained in touch with each other as they ran their stolen car/goods insurance scams.

    As I write this I realise I have no solution. How does anyone of moment take on building a credible police force when the politicians insist on retaining complete control of criminal opportunity?

  66. Major Elvis Newton

    Let’s hope Dan Andrews hasn’t pledged all this fine money elsewhere. The lawyers will no doubt be readying their dismissal arguments citing various violations of liberty under the Victorian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006. Specifically, sections:

    12 Freedom of movement
    Every person lawfully within Victoria has the right to move freely within Victoria and to enter and leave it and has the freedom to choose where to live.

    14 Freedom of thought, conscience, religion and belief
    (1) Every person has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, religion and belief, including—
    (a) the freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his or her choice; and
    (b) the freedom to demonstrate his or her religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching, either individually or as part of a community, in public or in private.

    (2) A person must not be coerced or restrained in a way that limits his or her freedom to have or adopt a religion or belief in worship, observance, practice or teaching.

    15 Freedom of expression
    (1) Every person has the right to hold an opinion without interference.
    (2) Every person has the right to freedom of expression which includes the freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, whether within or outside Victoria and whether—
    (a) orally; or (b) in writing; or (c) in print; or (d) by way of art; or (e) in another medium chosen by him or her.
    (3) Special duties and responsibilities are attached to the right of freedom of expression and the right may be subject to lawful restrictions reasonably necessary— (a) to respect the rights and reputation of other persons; or (b) for the protection of national security, public order, public health or public morality.

    16 Peaceful assembly and freedom of association
    (1) Every person has the right of peaceful assembly.
    (2) Every person has the right to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and join trade unions.

  67. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From candy at 1:09 pm:

    “…

    Not being facetious, Mick. I believe it’s a stunt by a gal to get a desired result, which is probably attention and youtube video fame.
    Not showing your licence when requested and driving with something hindering view. Basic stuff everyone knows not to do.”

    We agree then.

    As I noted they are at it often in the US, many go unlicensed and many do not pay their equivalent of third party insurance. All of that puts the victim of their lousy driving at a severe disadvantage financially, if they survive physically, yet viewers see only uniformed brutes and poor set upon innocents … until a drunk collides with and kills one of their brats.

  68. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Major Elvis Newton at 1:31 pm:

    “Let’s hope Dan Andrews hasn’t pledged all this fine money elsewhere. The lawyers will no doubt be readying their dismissal arguments citing various violations of liberty under the Victorian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 …”

    That is where a lot of this is headed, yes.

  69. The BigBlueCat

    If anyone is asking how did we Victorian’s get here, the Victorian Parliament website has a pretty good summary here.

    But none of this explains the gross breach of trust shown by Police Command in their unequal treatment of protesters and others during the last couple of weeks. The actions of the police are not a result of directions from the Chief Health Officer, they are clear directions from Chief Commissioner Patton and his offsider, Assistant Commissioner Luke Cornelius. My personal view in that neither are acting in the best interests of Victoria, but only in the best interests of how the government sees them during this current “state of emergency” (which if we are not out of soon, we should be asking “why not?”)

    That someone can be violently wrenched from their vehicle when they are clearly distressed by the situation which should only have resulted in a warning (if it is indeed the police position that the mobile phone was incorrectly located) and when it is clear that these people go through this roadblock on a daily basis. It is another bad look for a police force with a history of bad looks when it comes to suppressing what would otherwise be lawful (or at worst warning) behaviours.

    While I accept that playing stupid games win stupid prizes, much of the stupidity seems to be being displayed by individuals within Victoria Police. I can only hope they are in the minority, and that as we come out of restrictions, there will be the required reviews of pandemic management and an examination of roles and behaviours of various government agencies. This is where the LNP in Victoria needs to be placing their emphasis – holding the government to account, if not now then later.

    BTW – despite Liberty Victoria being your usual “bleeding heart” leftist organisation, they certainly side with the position that our lockdowns and curfews in Victoria are a serious challenge to our human rights (a view not shared by Julian Burnside, who as we know is as left-wing as they come and has declared support for Dan Andrews despite Burnside himself being a member of The Greens). Burnside isn’t broken clock – he just tells the wrong time.

  70. Chris M

    …individuals within Victoria Police. I can only hope they are in the minority

    Mate, face up to reality it’s the entire force gone rogue against civilians. Except maybe a secretary, horse groomer and some cleaners.

    How do you think Pol Pot managed to kill 25% of the people, using just a mere handful of bad military? Pay them well and even better convince them they are doing right and people will do almost anything, it’s a fundamental flaw of mankinds fallen sinful nature.

  71. The BigBlueCat

    Chris M
    #3584662, posted on September 14, 2020 at 2:36 pm
    …individuals within Victoria Police. I can only hope they are in the minority

    Mate, face up to reality it’s the entire force gone rogue against civilians. Except maybe a secretary, horse groomer and some cleaners.

    How do you think Pol Pot managed to kill 25% of the people, using just a mere handful of bad military? Pay them well and even better convince them they are doing right and people will do almost anything, it’s a fundamental flaw of mankinds fallen sinful nature.

    No – I know members who disagree. We’re a long way from Pol Pot.

  72. Chris M

    No – I know members who disagree.

    So they’ve left the force then right?

  73. The BigBlueCat

    candy
    #3584529, posted on September 14, 2020 at 1:09 pm
    I do not know if you are being fair dinkum or facetious, Candy, but I will assume the former.

    Not being facetious, Mick. I believe it’s a stunt by a gal to get a desired result, which is probably attention and youtube video fame.
    Not showing your licence when requested and driving with something hindering view. Basic stuff everyone knows not to do.

    She wasn’t trying to get a rise, but she was anxious about the police touching her property without just cause. To my viewing, it was the arrogance of the officer that prevented her from presenting her licence, which she was about to do when she noticed his hands on her car. The cop then got uppity and grabbed her, giving a false impression that she was not providing her identification when it’s clear she was about to.

    If, as she has stated, she has been through this roadblock on multiple occasions, presented her details and went on her way without detention, there is a case to say that it is the officer who is at fault, not the individual (who has willingly followed to the law on multiple occasions). This incident was clearly escalated by the officer. Anything to do with the placement of her phone should have been a warning without any need for identification – a reasonable cop would have taken that approach, and a reasonable cop would have kept their hands off the car and given the opportunity to produce a licence.

    It’s not a stunt, but an anxiety-led reaction to an overt threat to property and personal safety and fueled by a lack of trust in those who should know better. Hell, I’d tell a cop not to be touching my car too before providing name and address, and any continuance on his part would be subject to a formal complaint. She was quite polite about it albeit assertive.

    In the case in point, the police officer did not have a reasonable suspicion that an offence requiring arrest had occurred – she had a properly-signed Permitted Workers Permit as required under current restrictions and it was shown to him (he wanted to take it – I don’t believe that’s permitted; it only has to be shown). Later on, another officer confirms it is in order. The incident all stems from the time he puts his hands on the car (which he shouldn’t do). Chief Wiggum needs to instruct his officers properly.

  74. The BigBlueCat

    Chris M
    #3584683, posted on September 14, 2020 at 2:57 pm
    No – I know members who disagree.

    So they’ve left the force then right?

    No, working from within, like all good fifth-columnists should.

  75. The BigBlueCat

    @candy – I should add that a Permitted Workers Permit has the individual’s name, address and date of birth on it – I would argue that she has provided her name and address as required by the police. That the officer didn’t record it is his error. All he had to do was ask her the question “is that you?” and warned her about the location of her phone and job done.

    (Mind you, I don’t understand the issue of the phone charger – she’s driving a late-model VW Golf R that has charging capability along with the 9″ LED screen – was it broken? Not especially relevant since a warning should have been enough.)

  76. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From candy at 1:09 pm:

    “…

    Not being facetious, Mick. I believe it’s a stunt by a gal to get a desired result, which is probably attention and youtube video fame.
    Not showing your licence when requested and driving with something hindering view. Basic stuff everyone knows not to do.”

    I suspect, Candy, you might be righter than those here who are convinced that they are right!

    You will see the fingernail painting professional / eyelash plucker came well prepared for media coverage with a varied portfolio of personal shots available for inclusion in the piece, a strategically placed video for when they come to visit, and equipped with the obligatory unique struggle in life – “autoimmune disorder and anxiety” which, presumably, is fashionable.

  77. Rex Anger

    @ Cat-

    No, working from within, like all good fifth-columnists should.

    I posted upthread, that it is a terrible shame these guys are not the ones getting filmed. Small bt leavening doses of humanity amongst the LockDrones…

  78. kraka

    Candy, so what if she is-you have to admit the policeperson (sarc) went from 0-dickhead in about 3 seconds and the dragging out of the car is ridiculous especially, if as suggested above, the document she showed had all the identification he needed.

  79. rickw

    No – I know members who disagree. We’re a long way from Pol Pot.

    Historically people always think they’re a long way from bad things, then suddenly they’re not.

    Vicpol consider themselves to be the true protectors of Victorians, charged with mopping up a few loons at a time of national crisis. What does that license them to do? What they’re doing now and more.

    They will soon shoot people and they will consider it at an individual and organisational level as being completely justified.

  80. The BigBlueCat

    rickw
    #3584776, posted on September 14, 2020 at 4:09 pm
    No – I know members who disagree. We’re a long way from Pol Pot.

    Historically people always think they’re a long way from bad things, then suddenly they’re not.

    Vicpol consider themselves to be the true protectors of Victorians, charged with mopping up a few loons at a time of national crisis. What does that license them to do? What they’re doing now and more.

    They will soon shoot people and they will consider it at an individual and organisational level as being completely justified.

    Well, until they actually do shoot people, then we’ll know. I understand the frog being boiled slowly analogy … maybe that’s true, but it would take a whole country to turn, not an individual state (a state doesn’t control the army, for instance). But despite obvious thugs who hide in the ranks of the police force, there are decent people there as well. Let’s not get too paranoid … though we should be on our guard. Perhaps we inundate Q&A with some questions tonight ….

  81. Some History

    Where is the Vic Police Minister, Lisa Neville?

  82. Professor Fred Lenin

    Some history ,who? Is there a minister of Stasi?

  83. Some History

    Where is the Vic Police Minister, Lisa Neville?

    Probably sourcing more “RoboCop” gear.

  84. Louis

    It won’t. Why? Because they have come about because of lazy politicians and public servants looking to create ever easier ways for them to make their job easier.
    Such laws pass Parliament well under the radar of any level of proper scrutiny. If you want evidence, simply look at the passing of the relevant amendments of laws that introduced these powers in the various Parliaments.
    Acts of Parliament have to be debated. Regulations can be disallowed by Parliament but Ministerial notices, officials’ directions and all other manner of administrative rules (given force of law by one or more Acts of Parliament) are quick to create, don’t need to be debated nor justified and are rarely subject to Parliamentary over-sight.

    You are going to need a politician with a much higher level of awareness of legislative detail.

  85. nilk

    Quoting the Human Rights and Responsibilities Act is useless because it can be overridden any time with little fuss.

    Given that the restrictions seem to come at us under the guise of public health and wellbeing, I don’t think you can use the HRRA to combat anything.

    I might move to Scone. It’s a long way from Danograd.

  86. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Some History at 5:09 pm:

    “Where is the Vic Police Minister, Lisa Neville?

    Probably sourcing more “RoboCop” gear.”

    No, I do believe she is on Air Force One en route to Canberra. Scott Morison sent for her.

    Someone on the other thread demanded the Prime Minister “do something”.

    It appears he is unhappy with the Victorian Branch of the Federation and he has summoned her to appear before him to explain herself. He is the Prime Minister, boss of ministers and such. He might suspend her, I don’t know.

  87. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    I err, “Morrison” has two are’s.

  88. MatrixTransform

    We’re a long way from Pol Pot.

    are you measuring in units of time, or distance?

  89. Nighthawk the Elder

    Has anyone heard from the white ribbon or #metoo mob, or any other branch of the sisterhood for that matter?

    Is violence against women OK in some circumstances now, or is it only plod that has special exemptions to beat women?

    As was pointed out much earlier, plod had a number of other ways to obtain her identity and could have managed the whole incident by summons, instead of acting like complete ar**holes.

  90. Tacitus

    Australian Police Powers

    Print this out and keep a copy on you and one in the car.

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