Tuesday Forum: September 15, 2020

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3,002 Responses to Tuesday Forum: September 15, 2020

  1. dover_beach

    I think it is quite acceptable to be perjorative about Is lam, green-progressivism, Marxism, Aztec sacrifice, Moloch and Dagon worship, and Satanism. The latest green-progressive religion is just as abhorrent as Mo’s effort.

    The left loves to invoke science. What they call science is actually religion. What else might I call it?

    Why not criticize them as Is lam, as green-progressivism? As wrong for this or that reason. To say that they are a ‘religion’ is to say that they ( and by implication, Christianity) are wrong simply because they are a religion; whereas, given what we both believe that Christianity is true, good, and beautiful, there is nothing wrong about religion per se. What is wrong is false religion, or what Roger called ersatz religion. Moreover, the fact that secularists often fall into false or ersatz religion, i.e. green progressivism, communism, wokeism, this suggests that religion, properly understand, is an indelible part of any healthy culture, and therefore that any attempt to expunge religion always involves the establishment, deliberately or inadvertently, of false/ ersatz versions.

  2. Arky

    We are doing what they do, it helps people think they are not alone in their thoughts, that’s all.
    I’m not asking for acknowledgement on anything.

    👍

  3. Bruce of Newcastle

    Dan Andrews’daily lecture begins at noon.

    Is he fining people for not watching yet?
    Kim Jong-Un uses antiaircraft guns on people who fall asleep during his missives.
    Can’t be far off for Victorians.

  4. feelthebern

    Sweden called it correctly. This will only become clearer the longer this goes. The only people that will studiously avoid this conclusion are Leftist zombies like number, monty, and the like.

    2021.
    I plan on popping in to check it out.

  5. egg_

    I note that His Lowness* hasn’t paid tribute to Struth.

    Not sure WhaT you Are oN about, but this isn’t Jonestown.
    We* don’t direct people to “pay tribute” to others here abd bag them out for not doing so.
    I genuinely have no idea WTF you are talking about.
    Struth hasn’t been here this morning as far as I can tell.

    Sure, Lowlife – Struth’s song and direct upthread references to it passed you by.
    *The Royal We of the Clown Posse?

    Don’t be late for your funeral.

    Obfuscating Clown.

  6. mh

    Palace Chook thinks it’s all a game

    Gladys Berejiklian said she had effectively stopped talking to her Queensland counterpart, Annastacia Palaszczuk, after the pair traded barbs through the media on several occasions during the pandemic.

    “With Queensland, the door is locked, bolted and no conversations are continuing, unfortunately,” Ms Berejiklian said.

  7. Bruce of Newcastle

    What is wrong is false religion

    Good that we agree they are religions. False ones.

  8. egg_

    ‘If only Marcus Adonis were captured in CCTV footage at the servo.’

    Went through the footage. It only shows a big truck.

    And a little red car. And a jelly man. And someone with 91kg of lean muscle.

    The latest iteration was “rolls” of fat, retard.

  9. Arky

    Trump: “The me two generation”.
    Gold.

  10. Cassie of Sydney

    “Fuck ’em, they can get a bit back.”

    Agree Struth.

  11. egg_

    Knuckle Dragger
    #3588969, posted on September 18, 2020 at 7:29 am
    Ah geez.

    Morning eggster!

    16 posts this morning – do you live here?
    /Meth binge

  12. Struth

    Up until covid , I did music for a living , so it’s nothing more for me to do a song than it is for a plumber to unblock a shitter or an electrician to install a neon sign saying “F” Dan.
    Almost felt obliged.
    As long as we all bring our different skill sets to the table to fight this, all is well.

  13. Arky

    “Utah, the state of our worst senator”!

  14. Delta A

    The left loves to invoke science.

    Unless they’re discussing how many genders there are, or men giving birth.

  15. egg_

    A few more scattered Capital letteRs would be appreciated

    As in “HiLux”, first used by another poster?

    How about “LiteAce”?

    /Randomness

  16. Struth

    Also, like a good guitar solo, never over estimate your Audience.
    You don’t play Beethoven to children, you play the Wiggles.

  17. egg_

    The shiny @rse’s Outback repair kit of cable ties and gaffer tape would be interesting – it sounds more like a sheila’s outfit.

  18. Herodotus

    Queensland tool discovery excites scientists.
    What was it? Ancient? Something Pascoe could conceivably have described, like a wheel balancing device for Fred Flintstone’s car?
    Joining Pasco-esque fantasy to Calli’s nostalgia for the classics makes me think of that township in Dark Emu, which might even have had a library on whose shelves the itinerant explorer could discover contemporary works, like Aunty Gone! by John-On-Wheel.

  19. Cassie of Sydney

    “You don’t play Beethoven to children, you play the Wiggles.”

    Not necessarily…my mother used to play for us Bach and Mozart when we were children.

  20. Arky

    You listen to Trump, how he combines the obvious easy lines against the current leftist idiocy, with humour and warm banter, and you have to wonder: How did we get so psyched out by the left that no one else could do it?
    On some level, conservatives and conservative politicians had to accept and believe the slanders against them. Against us. The “racism” “sexism” “homophobia” “meanness” etc.
    It was always a giant psychological head fake against common sense and decency. Against ordinary people.
    It only works if, on some level, you accept their stupid premises.

  21. 🎜 I started a joke,
    🎜 That set VikPol on me…

  22. egg_

    Toyota:

    “LiteAce”
    “Town Ace”

    How’s that randomness, Ace?

  23. Cassie of Sydney

    “What is wrong is false religion”

    What is wrong is religions that focus solely on “social justice” to the exclusion of everything else. It is destroying mainstream Christianity and Progressive and Conservative Jooooodaism.

  24. duncanm

    mh
    #3588995, posted on September 18, 2020 at 7:52 am
    Thanks, Tom ⬆️

    This is incredible

    Is Julian Burnside finally realising who the real enemy to liberty is?

    Submitted by Liberty Victoria on Thu, 09/17/2020 – 13:21
    Liberty Victoria is very concerned about the new powers sought to be introduced by the COVID‑19 (Emergency Measures) Bill.

    In particular, we are concerned about how the new powers of what seems to be preventative detention will affect vulnerable people. We have previously publicly discussed these concerns in the media.

    There are already powers to detain in the Public Health and Well-being Act (PHW Act) and the Government has not explained why these additional powers are needed. We are deeply concerned about how the existing detention powers have already been exercised, in particular at the housing commission towers, as noted in our submission to the COVID-19 inquiry.

    Liberty Victoria is opposed to police officers automatically becoming authorised officers under the PHW Act. The approach to COVID‑19 should be a health approach and not a policing approach. We are of the view that only health workers or those with an expertise in health should be appointed authorised officers.

    We are particularly concerned by cl 16 of the Bill, which seeks to expand police powers and introduce a preventative detention regime under the Public Health and Wellbeing Act. Little (if any) evidence has been put forward which justifies these power.

    Proposed sections 250 and 253 have the effect of permitting police to exercise public health powers and emergency powers without the direction of an authorised officer. Police are not public health officials and do not have the expertise to determine whether action is necessary to eliminate or reduce a serious risk to public health. Further, we have seen that a lot of fines for breaching the directions have been issued erroneously and at times, it seems, capriciously. With the increased arsenal of powers, Liberty Victoria is concerned that we may see an increase in the severity of consequences (beyond substantial fines) flowing from similarly erroneous or capricious decisions – including arrests and restricting a person’s movement.

    Even more worryingly, proposed s 252 introduces a preventative detention regime which appears to have little protections or oversight, and provides far too much discretion to people who may lack the necessary expertise to determine risk, including police officers. The Bill does not specify what conduct may give rise to a “reasonable belief” that a person “is likely to refuse or fail to comply with” a direction. Again, police officers are not trained public health officials and will not have the expertise to determine the likelihood of a person’s conduct presenting a public health risk.

    Further, the period of detention is not specified in the Bill and there is no oversight regulation built into this power. It is to be determined based on what the designated authorised person, including a police officer, considers and if they reasonably believe the person remains a ‘high risk person’.

    The indefinite nature of these powers is exceptional and unlike other preventative detention regimes which contain fixed detention timeframes and strict oversight requirements. While these people have not committed any offence, they do not appear to have the right to challenge a decision to detain them – unlike people accused of criminal offences. Although they could seek judicial review of a decision, that is a costs jurisdiction which would make it difficult for people to challenge their detention.

    The number of new COVID-19 infections have been coming down, with only 28 today. Those numbers have decreased without the recourse to any of those powers, so it is unclear why the increased powers are now considered necessary.

    Julian Burnside

    President
    Liberty Victoria

  25. John Comnenus

    The Princeton debacle is hilarious. Princeton boss tells the world Princeton suffers from institutional racism. US Dept of Education puts them under investigation for violating civil rights and wants to know if it lied when it claimed $75 mil in Federal funding that was contingent on complying with civil rights law. They also note that Princeton has provided false and misleading info to the student market. They want the boss under oath within 28 days and he has to provide a spreadsheet of all the people who have been discriminated against.

    Superb piece of work by De Vos at the Dept of Ed. This blow hard has to find a bunch of people Princeton has discriminated against and risk up to 5 yrs in jail and a massive fine and the Uni handing back $75 mil OR admit that he was just virtue signalling and pandering to the left. Hilarious dilemma for the idiot head of Princeton. Clearly Princetonians ain’t real bright.

    If only SCOMO would take the long handle to some of our Universities. You would only have to defund one to scare the lot because you never stand between an academic and a funding grant.

  26. feelthebern

    Worth reposting.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/cuomo-covid-new-york-coronavirus-de-blasio-shutdown-timing-11599836994?mod=djemalertNEWS

    Shows what a cluster fuck the NY city/NY state response was.
    If Cuomo & de Blasio weren’t so busy fighting & playing politics, the state would have had an outcome as low as Florida.
    Florida is/was the benchmark for COVID19 response.

  27. dover_beach

    Good that we agree they are religions. False ones.

    No, the qualifier ‘false’ suggests otherwise. This would be like me saying, Cate McGregor is a false/ ersatz/ trans-woman, and then you replying with, Good that we agree that he is a woman. A false one.

  28. egg_

    Sure, Lowlife – Struth’s song and direct upthread references to it passed you by.

    Let’s see if the little turd even acknowledges it.

    /Zoom funeral bulldust

  29. Bruce of Newcastle

    C’mon Herodotus, you know First Nations people invented the shifting spanner 20,000 years ago.

  30. Bruce of Newcastle

    Dover – If Is lam isn’t a religion what is it? There’s this sort of need of a noun to describe a bunch of beliefs, even when they are wrong beliefs. Woke green-progressivism is a bunch of beliefs which are wrong. I need a noun for the clunky term “bunch of beliefs”. Most people use the word “religion”, and add the adjective “false” as befits.

  31. feelthebern

    Next time there is one of these pandemics all flights & boats have to stop.
    None of this one week to get home.
    It all stops, immediately.
    If Trump didn’t stop flights from China, there would be a lot more dead.
    He should have stopped all flights into the country, like Sept 11 2001.
    That’s on him.
    The rest is on the Governors of each state.
    Cuomo should hang.
    His nursing home response that criminal.
    As were the actions of the NJ governor.
    He should hang too.

  32. Struth

    How did we get so psyched out by the left that no one else could do it?
    On some level, conservatives and conservative politicians had to accept and believe the slanders against them. Against us. The “racism” “sexism” “homophobia” “meanness” etc.
    It was always a giant psychological head fake against common sense and decency. Against ordinary people.
    It only works if, on some level, you accept their stupid premises.

    We let them get away with calling Hitler right wing.
    It’s a simple as that.
    Look what they’ve done with it, and are still doing.
    Right wingers, probably 60 percent of ordinary people haven’t stopped to say, hang on a sec, he called himself a socialist and acted like an extreme socialist.
    These same people so ingrossed in their immediate lives would now still be thinking Victoria has a deadly pandemic.
    The right always stuffs up by never actually believing how evil the left is.
    If you point it out, oh no, you are a conspiracy theorist.
    You can’t just have a quiet life when the left is not controlled.
    Either you or your children will pay dearly.

  33. Bar Beach Swimmer

    Cassie,
    “Social justice” now seems completely connected with green-leftism. It’s surprising and alarming at the same time that the “leaders” of the congregation have such little understanding of their own holy texts and the message contained therein.

    One example will suffice: – in the sense that the person displayed a complete ignorance of the religion he represents; for the Christian, Christ is the hope of the world.

    On Twitter a couple of years back McTiltyHead tweeted the following:
    ‘Very hard to understand a nation who, through its own willful ignorance, will cause our grandchildren to abandon all hope #ClimateCrisis #auspol.

  34. egg_

    It must be unsettling for Huck’s passengers when he alights from the drivers cab with his Thomas the Tank Engine lunch box.

  35. Geriatric Mayfly

    If only SCOMO would take the long handle to some of our Universities.

    Even the word needs redefining. Many institutions took on airs and graces above their station, calling themselves Universities in the process and awarding degrees in veggie disciplines. They appear to attract staff in legion few of whom ever startle the world with their research.

  36. dover_beach

    Dover – If Is lam isn’t a religion what is it?

    I was going to add that Is lam is a religion, but wokeism, communism, green-progressivism, and the like are not. They are clearly ersatz religions.

    There’s this sort of need of a noun to describe a bunch of beliefs, even when they are wrong beliefs. Woke green-progressivism is a bunch of beliefs which are wrong. I need a noun for the clunky term “bunch of beliefs”. Most people use the word “religion”, and add the adjective “false” as befits.

    Try ideologies.

  37. Makka

    There are already powers to detain in the Public Health and Well-being Act (PHW Act)

    In that case, why are DHHS not acting in Casey, where the known spreaders refuse testing?

  38. egg_

    The signature Marcus Adonis condescending sigh.
    Always worth a repeat.

    Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC
    #1240355, posted on March 26, 2014 at 8:31 pm
    Sigh.

    Hot. Heavy. Nosewheel fire an hour after t/o.

    Aviate, navigate, communicate.

    The pilot aviated and boresighted on the diversion runway at Langkawi. Meanwhile the copilot’s popping the electrical busses to siolate the fire and work out if it’s nosewheel or electrical.

    The pilots are then incapacitated/killed by the smoke. The third priority does not happen.

    The flight computer then sets to default mode while screaming the cockpit alarms.

    And she flies on until fuel exhaustion.

    It has happened before, it will happen again.

  39. miltonf

    The alliance is pushing the Democrat assumption that election results will be illegitimate absent a huge Biden victory.
    Leading Democratic figures have followed suit, laying the ground for chaos and mass unrest.
    Former First Lady Hillary Clinton urged Biden not to concede the election “under any circumstances,” while the Democratic presidential candidate said he is confident that Trump is “going to try to steal this election.”
    With a well-funded coalition of anti-Trump groups prepping the battlefield for post-election anarchy, such statements are hardly trivial.

    That dirty old clinton woman is not going away. These people more evil than I believed possible.

  40. Bruce of Newcastle

    They are clearly ersatz religions.

    Adjective and noun. QED.

    Try ideologies.

    I point out from time to time that Is lam is the original fascism, but most people on Earth still call it one of the Abrahamic religions.

    I was hoping you’d put up the “c” word, as befits a Jim Jones or et al. Basically woke green-progressivism is a cult, and should be treated as one. The believers need to be deprogrammed. But a false religion is effectively just a cult which has gone mainstream, and green-progressivism has sure gone mainstream.

    I get this stuff all the time in my field. What do I call stuff which people say is science but which is wrong? It’s fake science, false science, wrong science. There’s need for a noun which means science-which-isn’t-science. Right now there’s an awful lot of it about. Ditto religion-which-isn’t-religion.

  41. incoherent rambler

    Has anyone, who is alert and not alarmed, phoned ASIO to report the incarceration of people against their will by CCP sympathizers in Viktoristan?
    Probably should mention the destruction of any industry that might cause future difficulties for the CCP.
    Methinks ASIO should investigate.

  42. Peter Vlandys the NRL commissioner was asked about the possibility of Qld fans turning to AFL due to the grand final being here. Great reply :

    “It is like getting tickets to an ABBA concert when you are an AC/DC fan”.

    Ok gotta zip as I know there are quite a few ABBA fans here !

  43. Roger

    I’ve just watched Dan Andrews’s press conference as it was on at the doctor’s.

    He’s a master of dissembling.

    It would help if viewers could hear the press’s questions clearly.

  44. feelthebern
    #3589303, posted on September 18, 2020 at 12:40 pm
    Next time there is one of these pandemics all flights & boats have to stop.

    Like I called for about 16 January. Trump was the fastest to respond, but he was still quite late.

    There’s no getting around the fact that the same people who wanted the borders open which made the pandemic hitting here certain, want unlimited powers to Dan Andrews to eliminate the virus.

    This will go down in history as historical lunacy alongside Caligula making his horse a senator; medieval Europe killing all the cats because witchcraft, heralding the bubonic plague; Hitler turning on the Soviet Union and Muttley claiming Custer died at The Alamo.

  45. Cassie of Sydney

    “Bar Beach Swimmer
    #3589306, posted on September 18, 2020 at 12:45 pm
    Cassie,
    “Social justice” now seems completely connected with green-leftism. “

    Absolutely…and it is destroying mainstream religions. People want dogma in religion.

  46. K2

    There is no such thing as “Right Wing”. There is only the Left; and those not of the Left.

    An axiom such as “99% of the time, 99% of the Left agree with 99% of the ideology” could never be used to describe the “Right”, right?.

  47. Roger

    There’s need for a noun which means science-which-isn’t-science.

    Pseudo-science.

    Right now there’s an awful lot of it about. Ditto religion-which-isn’t-religion.

    Ersatz religion, i.e. a poor substitute for the real thing.

    Religions posit the existence of a God or gods; clearly wokeism doesn’t do that, ergo it is not a religion.

  48. Roger

    People want dogma in religion.

    + mystery, meaning & ritual.

  49. Diogenes

    “It is like getting tickets to an ABBA concert when you are an AC/DC fan”.

    IIRC the awful became really big when the Brisbane Lions were at their peak. When they didn’t get their 4-peat the interest waned quite quickly

  50. Cassie of Sydney

    “Roger
    #3589333, posted on September 18, 2020 at 1:30 pm
    People want dogma in religion.

    + mystery, meaning & ritual.”

    Absolutely…and rules.

  51. Cassie of Sydney

    “Knuckle Dragger
    #3589337, posted on September 18, 2020 at 1:33 pm
    Sigh.”

    “Sigh” seems to be the word of the week.

  52. K2

    Looks like the Brisbane Broncos will be getting the no.1 draft pick.

  53. Knuckle Dragger

    ’16 posts this morning – do you live here?
    /Meth binge’

    15 for you in the same timeframe, 91kgOLM.

    Plus you get extra points for putting a clip up. It wasn’t of a Moke, but you can’t have everything.

  54. dover_beach

    People want dogma in religion

    Nothing wrong with it. But this again simply is another instance of the long shadow cast by ‘the Enlightenment’ across the modern world.

  55. vlad

    It would help if viewers could hear the press’s questions clearly.

    The journalists have to wear masks.

    The Leader does not.

  56. win

    The gate might be locked and b0lted to day but as sure as God made little fishes the Queensland boarder will magically open for registration and v oting purposes just before the QLD election.

  57. Gab

    the ”enlightenment” produced the ”me, me, me” society.

  58. notafan

    Yes struth my thoughts exactly; you’re a professional musician. I expect you to be pretty good if people are prepared to pay to hear you.

  59. Fisky

    I fully support a ban on Critical Theory. Anyone who teaches it should have their licence or tenure canceled.

    Alex Turnbull
    @alexbhturnbull
    ·
    21m
    It is not an overstatement to see Critical Theory and its fundamental indifference and hostility to objective truth as a national security threat. It opens the ideological door, autocracy steps through. ⁦
    @AreoMagazine
    ⁩ ⁦
    @HPluckrose
    https://a.co/dLrr4vP

  60. Leigh Lowe

    Good work on the songs Struth.
    (And not just saying that because I’ve copped some egg_ravation over it. Probably egged him on enough.)

  61. P

    I saw a quote on the www an hour or so ago by Charles Seymour, in his inaugural address as incoming president of Yale in 1937 –

    There he called upon “all members of the faculty, as members of a thinking body, freely to recognize the tremendous validity and power of the teachings of Christ in our life and death struggle against the forces of selfish materialism.”

    God and Man Everywhere
    Jack H. Burke The American Conservative May 24, 2019

  62. calli

    People want dogma in religion

    I want life and beauty and goodness.

  63. Makka

    Soros and what he has been up too. Gingrich calls him out (8.42)

  64. Colonel Crispin Berka

    Heard via Tim Pool that yet another systemic political bias in Big Tech has been confirmed:

    @JenniferJJacobs · 4h
    Twitter’s public policy director has left the company to join Biden’s team, @StevenOverly reports
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/17/twitter-public-policy-director-decamps-for-biden-transition-team-417293

    I was once told years ago that “Twitter is infrastructure”. And you know what tends to happen with “infrastructure”, yep, it gets controlled by public policy. It all makes sense in an awful way.

  65. Makka

    I want life and beauty and goodness.

    The TdeF is showing off a good deal of that atm. Glorious panoramas and plenty of dangerous action.

  66. Mark from Melbourne

    Somewhere miles above, someone suggested that a COVID test was mandatory for elective surgery.

    Having just refused a date for cataract surgery part deux on the basis that a COVID test was required, I think I can fact check that as True.

    It *may* depend on the surgery’s “level”… cataracts are level 3, boob jobs are level 4, as I understand it.

  67. DrBeauGan

    Religions posit the existence of a God or gods; clearly wokeism doesn’t do that, ergo it is not a religion.

    Not necessarily. A distinguishing feature.of religion is believing things on faith rather than evidence.

    It’s not necessary to derogate religions, most of them historically have been vile. BoN gives some examples, but there are plenty of others. Insisting that religion means Catholicism isn’t useful. The non-vile religions are probably a minority.

    And the adherents of a religion, ranging from those who absorb mainly the morality, if any, to the fanatics who are insane, tell you a lot about the religion.

    There are other distinguishing marks, but the crucial one is the dependence on faith. And people can have faith in all sorts of things, some plainly lunatic.

  68. Arky

    boob jobs are level 4

    ..
    For God’s sake man, don’t get a boob job.

  69. Arky

    Faith isn’t anti- reason.
    All maths begins with faith that there might be a solution.
    You aren’t going to plow through pages of calculations unless you first take it on faith that the end result tells you something meaningful.
    i.e: You have faith that the universe is a place of logic and meaning.
    Imagine the leap of faith required to be the first person to posit something along those lines.

  70. Mark from Melbourne

    For God’s sake man, don’t get a boob job.

    And see, right there, you’ve trashed me day. I was sooooo looking forward to a set of double-Ds!

    How come you can have your (admirably tidy) shed AND a car wreck well on the way to being not-a-wreck and I can’t have me boob job?

    Have you no empathy?

  71. Arky

    Have you no empathy?

    ..
    Lots…and a too vivid imagination.
    [shudder]

  72. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Jeanette Young is MBBS and that’s it medically? Wow. Epidemiological methodology, its statistical analysis and critique, is not really taught to undergraduate medicos. She is less qualified in epidemiology than even me. I did a year full-time of post-grad epidemiology at SU Faculty of Medicine, in lectures tutorials and exams with a heap of MBBS graduates as my fellow students. I am not MBBS but these starters had no better grounding than I did for this complex statistical scientific study and I topped them in the final exam. So Dr Young would be at the MBBS starting base of my peers there too, and would have much to learn, as I did. Hmmmmmm.

    Absolutely astounding that she is running the Qld epidemiological show. Explains some of the erratic decisions though. She has a Masters in Business Administration and ran a non-major hospital? Still not good enough, imho.

  73. Fat Tony

    Arky
    #3589397, posted on September 18, 2020 at 3:13 pm
    Have you no empathy?

    ..
    Lots…and a too vivid imagination.
    [shudder]

    Arky – Have you considered the “boob job” may be to get rid of a rather large set of man boobs??
    It’s not always about making them bigger…

  74. Tintarella di Luna

    Professor Henry Ergas’ article today in the Australian really is a masterpiece:
    with this photo accompanying the text – half-baked Kabuki theatre

    Here is the article sorry if it’s been posted already haven’t been upthread yet:

    We face a plague of Creons
    Annastacia Palaszczuk and Daniel Andrews are exhibiting all the cynicism of Sophocles’s legendary tyrant.

    Almost 2500 years after it was first performed, Sophocles’s Antigone has seemed more relevant — ever since Queensland refused Sarah Caisip, a 26-year-old Canberra-based graduate nurse, permission to attend her father’s funeral.

    Of course, unlike Antigone — who, in Sophocles’s tragedy, refuses to obey the order given by Creon, the recently crowned king of Thebes, to let the body of her brother, who died a traitor, rot in the open, where it will be consumed by vultures, wolves and rats — Caisip did not breach the prohibition, much less face horrendous punishment for doing so.

    But no one expressed better than Sophocles the clash between the demands of the state on the one hand, and the human imperative to properly honour the death of those we love on the other.

    Despite his apparent indifference to Antigone’s sense of duty, Creon, as Sophocles portrays him, was neither a tyrant nor a monster. Rather, at least initially, he simply believed in the need to respect the rules, because the failure to do so could lead to even more suffering than the pain they cause.

    And since time immemorial, Thebes law, like that of the other Greek city-states, had condemned traitors to the humiliation and torment of being denied the funeral rites.

    The fact that violating that law might pollute the polis, rekindling the devastating plague which destroyed the reign of Creon’s predecessor, Oedipus, only made the stakes all the greater.

    Former speaker of the house Bronwyn Bishop says Annastacia Palaszczuk has one strategy to win the upcoming election and it purely involves convincing Queenslanders, “I have sa…
    Yet faced with mounting pressure to relent — and to respect Antigone’s appeal to a moral law, even higher than the city’s, which, in the name of piety and fidelity, obliged her to ensure and attend the decent burial of her beloved brother — Creon showed himself to be supremely political, imbued with the cynicism and casual ­ruthlessness of those whose craft is power.

    Fearing that making concessions under pressure would compromise his authority, and with it his grasp on the throne, he took refuge behind the rules, which, far from reducing cruelty, served only to redirect and formalise his ferocity.

    When he ultimately told Antigone — in refusing to compromise — that “You may love the dead and die, I live for life”, the ­future he was protecting was really his own, not that of Thebes’s ­citizens. And while he could claim, with some validity, to have restored security and preserved the city’s health, the moral nihilism into which he descended could only survive amid the ruins and debris of Thebes’s spiritual fabric.

    None of that means that Creon lacked popular support. On the contrary, in Jean Anouilh’s masterly retelling of Antigone — which the French playwright composed in the closing days of World War II — Creon, who seized the day, made the hard ­decisions and trounced his opponents, unceasingly manipulating those he referred to as the “brutes that I govern”.

    Victorian shadow Police Minister David Southwick says the opposition hopes to convince Labor Party members to realise Daniel Andrews is “taking a sledgehammer to a nail” on CO…
    As things turned out, with the threat of pestilence still looming, the plebs were scarcely interested in ethical dilemmas, so long as their own concerns were met. Even more importantly, Creon’s tough stance entrenched and emboldened the city’s ubiquitous guards, who emerged from Anouilh’s retelling of the tragedy as its greatest, if not only, winners.

    At the end of the day, it was the thugs and cronies who profited, while Antigone, whose spirit was doomed to wander forever without finding peace, met her fate.

    There are, in the story of ­Antigone, truths that have given it almost unique resonance over the millennia, with a recent study identifying more than 100 significant adaptations and variations of Sophocles’s account in 20th century literature alone.

    Almost all of those, Maria de Fatima Silva finds, are set in long-established dictatorships; but now the truths Sophocles’s story tells seem to be playing themselves out on our shores.

    It is not simply the appalling heartlessness that was shown to Caisip — who could, for example, have been required to attend her father’s funeral wearing personal protective clothing — which is at issue here.

    Rather, with Annastacia Palaszczuk exploiting the threat of contagion to prevent Scott Morrison, who is very popular in Queensland, entering the state during its election campaign, and Daniel Andrews doing whatever he can to avoid public accountability and shield his own guards from the scrutiny they need and deserve, we face a plague of petty Creons, drenched in the moral ­nihilism that distinguishes the breed.

    There is, for sure, a chance that they will succeed; the gods, who in Greek tragedy could always be counted on to mete out harsh justice, having long left the scene, little stands between us and the ancients’ presumption, amply justified by every page of political history, that some agents of government will use all the scope they have to entrench their position — including by acting brutally and immorally — unless they are prevented from doing so.

    With the crisis removing many of those constraints, our democracy appears to have slipped closer to the edge of the precipice than one might have thought possible. And while it may be that we will edge back once the crisis abates, it is surely critical to revisit the lessons liberalism’s greatest thinkers drew in reflecting on the Sophoclean drama.

    Judith Shklar, the Harvard professor whose lectures on ­Antigone and political obligation were recently published post­humously, captured them brilliantly. The liberalism we inherited from the 19th century, she wrote, was a “liberalism of hope” — the hope, most of all, that one could create the basis for human flourishing.

    But these dark times, which offer so much room for manipulation and deceit, demand a renewed emphasis on the “liberalism of fear” that instead of concentrating on how to bring about the greatest good, focuses on averting the greatest ills.

    Rather than striving for the utopian perfectibility of mankind, the liberalism of fear seeks to limit the damage, so that we can feel free because the government does not, indeed cannot, terrorise us — be it by handcuffing pregnant women for organising innocent protests or by denying to grieving families the solace of farewelling the dead.

    In Australia, we have always assumed that those freedoms were so deeply rooted in custom and culture as to be inextinguishable. Today we realise otherwise.

    But we also realise there are no simple, much less foolproof, recipes that can balance the need for governments that are effective, even in crises, with the absolute imperatives of liberty.

    That is the debate we must have in the months ahead. The alternative is yet more Creons, with all their ambition and venom, in an Australia that seems as remote from what we know and cherish as Antigone’s wandering and inconsolable ghost.

  75. Arky

    to get rid of a rather large set of man boobs??

    ..
    Otherwise known as “the full Monty”.

  76. miltonf

    Favourable coverage to follow?
    Or funding the enemies of the people?

    Newswire service Australian Associated Press has been handed a $5 million lifeline, as the federal government says its existence was vital for maintaining regional news and media diversity.

    Not surprising- the political establishment and the media are both enemies of the people. Fletcher, I assume, is just another Photios bot. Look at all those Lieberal MHRs from northern Sydney- you wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire.

  77. Tom

    Even my Trump-hating liberal stepdaughter in Nashville hates this prick: the Democrat mayor of Nashville (who has just hiked municipal rates by 30%+) has surpressed the low prevalence of Kung Flu in the city’s bars and restaurants — which he has locked down, destroying the city’s huge tourism industry.

    Tucker Carlson has called on the city to impeach him.

    Lowlife scum.

    Watch it before it’s censored later today when Google/Youtube deep-sixes the video (which won’t exist this time tomorrow).

  78. DrBeauGan

    Faith isn’t anti- reason.
    All maths begins with faith that there might be a solution.
    You aren’t going to plow through pages of calculations unless you first take it on faith that the end result tells you something meaningful.
    i.e: You have faith that the universe is a place of logic and meaning.
    Imagine the leap of faith required to be the first person to posit something along those lines.

    I never said it was. But it can be. Depends on the faith.

  79. Arky

    Cool!
    My DVD of Laurence Oliviers Richard the Third has just arrived.
    Perfectly in time for the little girl’s Friday movie night.

  80. Tom

    Arky
    #3589386, posted on September 18, 2020 at 2:58 pm

    Great post!

  81. Arky

    “Now is the winter of thy discotheque
    Made glorious something something son of York

  82. Fat Tony

    Arky
    #3589409, posted on September 18, 2020 at 3:22 pm
    to get rid of a rather large set of man boobs??

    ..
    Otherwise known as “the full Monty”.
    Ohhh Arky – that was cruel 😂 🤣

  83. Arky

    Tom
    #3589416, posted on September 18, 2020 at 3:28 pm
    Arky
    #3589386, posted on September 18, 2020 at 2:58 pm

    Great post!

    ..
    Not really.
    Beaugan’s reply was mild,
    If I was making a really good point the result from him would have been:


  84. Arky

    Speech: “Now is the winter of our discontent”
    BY WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE
    (from Richard III, spoken by Gloucester)

    Now is the winter of our discontent
    Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
    And all the clouds that lour’d upon our house
    In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.
    Now are our brows bound with victorious wreaths;
    Our bruised arms hung up for monuments;
    Our stern alarums changed to merry meetings,
    Our dreadful marches to delightful measures.
    Grim-visaged war hath smooth’d his wrinkled front;
    And now, instead of mounting barbed steeds
    To fright the souls of fearful adversaries,
    He capers nimbly in a lady’s chamber
    To the lascivious pleasing of a lute.
    But I, that am not shaped for sportive tricks,
    Nor made to court an amorous looking-glass;
    I, that am rudely stamp’d, and want love’s majesty
    To strut before a wanton ambling nymph;
    I, that am curtail’d of this fair proportion,
    Cheated of feature by dissembling nature,
    Deformed, unfinish’d, sent before my time
    Into this breathing world, scarce half made up,
    And that so lamely and unfashionable
    That dogs bark at me as I halt by them;
    Why, I, in this weak piping time of peace,
    Have no delight to pass away the time,
    Unless to spy my shadow in the sun
    And descant on mine own deformity:
    And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover,
    To entertain these fair well-spoken days,
    I am determined to prove a villain
    And hate the idle pleasures of these days.
    Plots have I laid, inductions dangerous,
    By drunken prophecies, libels and dreams,
    To set my brother Clarence and the king
    In deadly hate the one against the other:
    And if King Edward be as true and just
    As I am subtle, false and treacherous,
    This day should Clarence closely be mew’d up,
    About a prophecy, which says that ‘G’
    Of Edward’s heirs the murderer shall be.
    Dive, thoughts, down to my soul: here
    Clarence comes.

  85. Struth

    Thank you LL.
    Those recordings are rough, but as explained on the thread, I thought live with crowd was better for politics,, and I wasn’t going to get it with an audience again.
    No gigs anymore, that was a private piss up in an industrial shed, to negate having to practice “covid Normal” by going to a pub.
    Some people like to stand and drink, I know, the cheek of it.

    Guitar low in mix so words can be heard was more important than musicality, and I was reading on Ipad as I went, because I had only just written it.
    It’s just politics.

    Here’s one of my songs I wrote and recorded when I just started in music, done in a studio.
    All vision is from my working life trucking or tour driving.
    It’s very “CW”.
    Arnhem Land to Maree and the first truck I still have, and was the lead truck in the convoy.

  86. Farmer Gez

    What a disgusting sight!
    The supposed Attorney General of Victoria, Jill Hennessy, putting forward legislation to trash Habeas Corpus.
    Needs striking off immediately.
    Where are the the heroes of precedent now? We’re relying on Julian Burnside to speak up for the common man.

  87. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Bruce science which isn’t science is scientism.

    Don’t know about religions that aren’t. Perhaps beliefism? Believing in something that is about fake beliefs. Doesn’t quite parallel scientism though because beliefs have no absolute truth except to believers in some other belief, who are thus beliefists too beyond their own paradigm.

    And so we come to paradigms. Whoops. Even scientists have them but science goes it’s own way, always towards empirical truth in the end.

    I’m getting out of this mess before I go any further 😎

  88. Roger

    Bruce science which isn’t science is scientism.

    Scientism is the promotion of science as the only valid epistemological method and the panacea for all human ills.

    As an example, putting medical doctors in charge of an economy.

  89. feelthebern

    131 MTA employees died in New York State.
    Cuomo banned MTA employees from wearing masks because he was still on the Trump is racist for stopping flights from China bandwagon.
    Cuomo must hang.

  90. jupes

    Absolutely astounding that she is running the Qld epidemiological show.

    No Lizzie, she is running Queensland.

    She’s busy with the budget as we speak.

  91. Roger

    Jeanette Young is MBBS and that’s it medically? Wow.

    Oh no…she has an MBA too.

    “Highly qualified” in the words of the QLD AMA.

  92. Arky

    Time to expand the social media presence there Struth.

  93. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Bernie, total immediate isolation can be a useful stalling device in a pandemic with an unknown vector to assess virulence and gather medical forces. It is not a viable way to proceed after that for an interconnected world. Judging when to unlock and where and when is an applied science and should be put to rigorous social and medical cost-benefit analysis.

    Epidemics have a curve and a herd response. Useful medically to consider both.

  94. vlad

    Catholicism is based on evidence – eyewitness testimony, historical records and so on – and reasoning on top of that.

    You can say you need faith to believe that stuff got handed down correctly, but then one gets into word games.

  95. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Scientism- yes, well put Roger in one epistemological sense. But it also has a meaning of using valid science to make invalid claims, or improperly claiming something to be scientifically valid when it is demonstrably not.

  96. vlad

    The supposed Attorney General of Victoria, Jill Hennessy, putting forward legislation to trash Habeas Corpus.

    I am hoping that will have a harder time getting past the cross-benchers.

  97. Delta A

    Here’s one of my songs I wrote and recorded when I just started in music

    That’s really good, Struth!

    Thanks for posting it.

  98. Cassie of Sydney

    “I am hoping that will have a harder time getting past the cross-benchers.”

    Don’t bet on it Vlad….Andrews will probably do a deal with the Animal Justice party to enforce veganism on Victorians..and you thought things couldn’t get worse.

    Where’s Morrison speaking up against this?

    Where’s Christian Porter speaking up against this?

  99. Roger

    Scientism- yes, well put Roger in one epistemological sense. But it also has a meaning of using valid science to make invalid claims, or improperly claiming something to be scientifically valid when it is demonstrably not.

    Yes, I see what you mean, Lizzie.

    Stretching the epistemological validity of science to an absolute level – including the social and economic life of human beings – will inevitably result in what you mention. I was thinkin gopf psychology and Kinsey immediately came to mind.

  100. Struth, if you produce more anthems for a lockdown population, we’re all sure to be able to give them some publicity!

  101. Cassie of Sydney

    Struth…what about cutting “Lockdown” CD?

  102. Mater:

    Lock down forever, Bob?
    The thought kinda makes ya feel warm and fuzzy, doesn’t it?

    To numbers, it does. And that warm fuzzy feeling will continue right up until he is marched into the tiled room with the drain in the centre.

  103. Makka

    They are hiding Cassie. As they have been all along. Scummo gets to the National Cabinet and rolls over for a tummy rub. I’ll never vote Federal LNP again in my life.

  104. vlad

    .and you thought things couldn’t get worse.

    Things can always get worse.

  105. 🎜 let’s meet and have a protest now!*

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvCng7-za1Y

    *Not a Demonstration Solicitation!

  106. DrBeauGan

    Good stuff, Struth. You’re a good bloke.

  107. jupes

    Arnhem Land to Maree and the first truck I still have, and was the lead truck in the convoy.

    Mate, what happened to the Long Way There clip? They cut you off while you were cutting sick on the solo!

  108. Struth

    Well I’m out now, NKP.

    I’m not going to be here arguing anymore, life’s too short.
    I came here in breaks from rehearsals and when by myself on the road, for discussion.
    It’s been good to get my political ideas challenged, but what we could all see coming has arrived.
    Not much point in arguing about the GST percentage or bracket creep, now!

    Doesn’t mean I’m leaving.
    I’m just too tired of all this commo takeover for months now.
    In the hands of god, are we all.
    And god help us.

  109. incoherent rambler

    Stretching the epistemological validity of science …

    the bolded word – is that the strip of skin between the front and the back?

  110. maman

    Struth @ 3:34pm Arnhem Land to Maree
    This song’s pretty cool, and the “Lock Down” ones are terrific – but it’s your videos and photos that really bring home what it is we have lost here in Victoria, locked in our suburban homes not able to travel more than 5klm in any direction.
    Australians think nothing of driving huge distances just to share time, to celebrate together with family and friends. 14hr days shared driving to get across to Perth to meet a new grandchild, easy. The same hours for a Mt Isa Birthday, I won that bet. 24hrs down from Alpha for the wedding. It’s no big deal. The open space and the long road ahead 🙂 I reckon the land itself does something to us, and just as the tribal Aborigines go “Walkabout”, can suffer and die if they are locked up; the latest arrivals also feel that pull from the land and are suffering deeply from their unending incarceration here in Victoria.
    The song and the video left me grinning, thank you.

  111. Makka

    Cops can harass grannies, choke small women, arrest pregnant women, stomp on the heads of mental patients, break down doors for dissenting Fb posts, but they cannot detain and test known carriers spreading the virus when their names and addresses are all known. The state stays in lockdown because Dan won’t act against 5 moozlim families in Casey.

    That is how fkd up Victoria is.

    Victoria’s largest coronavirus cluster outside of aged care is centred around five households whose residents broke the stay-at-home rules to travel outside their 5km radius and visit each other, Victorian health authorities say.

    Key points:
    Jeroen Weimar, from the health department, said that “limited” and “relatively infrequent contact” had already resulted in 34 cases
    The five households are in Hallam, Clyde, Narre Warren South and Cranbourne North
    Premier Daniel Andrews said it was a reminder to follow the rules because there was often no infection control in relaxed settings
    The first positive test in the Casey cluster was recorded two weeks ago, on September 4, and it has since grown to 34 cases

  112. Struth

    Jupes, I just set up a bit here and there Jupes, but someone will say “fuck” or similar ,nothing surer.
    They’re always fucking swearing in the pubs I play in and so it gets recorded until there is an obscenity.
    I hate people swearing in my fucking videos.

  113. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Cool!
    My DVD of Laurence Oliviers Richard the Third has just arrived.
    Perfectly in time for the little girl’s Friday movie night.

    There’s a very good alternate version, set in 1930’s England, starring Ian MacClellan, worth watching.

  114. Feelthebern:

    Imagine when Dan shuts down the roads at Christmas & New Year and starts holding press conferences for the deaths caused by car accidents.

    These bastards have already stuffed up my Christmas.
    I’m in no mood to put up with their bullshit.

  115. jupes

    I hate people swearing in my fucking videos.

    Too pissed to appreciate the quality of the performance.

  116. Struth

    Van Morrison has been among the UK artists performing at socially distanced venues that have opened up in the last weeks, which were recently shut down again after coronavirus cases rose. Last month, Van Morrison posted a public statement about “pseudo-science” and socially distanced shows.

    In his statement that announced the songs (via BBC), Van Morrison said: “I’m not telling people what to do or think, the government is doing a great job of that already. It’s about freedom of choice, I believe people should have the right to think for themselves.”

    Thanks P.

    One singer I have always admired.

    I gave the few gigs I had this year away because playing in a covid normal pub is soul destroying.

    Because people have to seated and lights left up, and a thousand other stupidities, it’s quite surreal and insane to be a musician playing in them.
    Tables up to your stage, playing early so they can close hours early so no one gets drunk and attempts to touch someone else, you are down so low you really are only there for the visuals , and as you can now see , my visuals no one will pay for!

    But just this post P, has inspired me, and good on Van Morrison.
    For the moment there is no musical future in pubs, and I’m getting too old anyway.
    But a better recorded anti commo group of songs might be just the ticket.

  117. Bundyrum

    Slomo & the LNP are nowhere in sight anywhere & the liars are doing their usual lying about everything.
    Again I will say if the duck gets voted in again in Qld, that will tell you how dumbed down Australian voters have been edumacated.
    The media is a massive enemy to this country but don’t expect any pushback from the LNP, Abbot was a massive failure on the ABC, the poms can have him.
    My advice is every Australian parent to get their children educated in real subjects, no BS gender shite…. & tell them to get the fk out of this shithole as it will take many years to recover from the shit politicians have given us for the last 50 years, we are too deep in bullshit for this to change soon.
    What a mess & still there are knobheads who push for more shit.

  118. Struth

    Mamam, they deserve locking up.
    They deserve more than that, but I’ll settle for life in prison for all these Premiers and Sco Mo.

  119. calli

    Not being free doesn’t suit us.

    No, Struth. You remind me strongly of my supervisor. Old Australia.

  120. vlad

    They deserve more than that, but I’ll settle for life in prison for all these Premiers and Sco Mo.

    No, I’d put them on community service for life; no pension of course. They’d have to work mowing everyone’s lawns for free for the next 40 years. It would bring them down to size.

  121. P

    Cheers Struth. Good to see you inspired are by a young 75yr old!

  122. DrBeauGan

    “The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.”

    Gloria Steinem.

  123. John Comnenus:
    Where’s ya bin?
    No, where’s ya really bin?

  124. incoherent rambler

    The truth will set you free

    Not in Afdanistan.
    There it gets you indefinite imprisonment.

  125. Bundyrum

    I would like to see a full inquiry into the wealth of each & every politician & their staff have acquired since election, no holds barred, we already know they are paid outrageously.
    Past ones too, Rudd & Juliar come to mind.
    I would put all these traitorous politicians in prison & remove their wealth, a good hanging comes to mind.
    I am in a good mood today.

  126. Struth

    Again I will say if the duck gets voted in again in Qld, that will tell you how dumbed down Australian voters have been edumacated.

    There has not been enough attention put toward the Chinese being in control of the election data.
    Can you believe it?
    Not a question from a journalist since it was brought up.

  127. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Onya, Struth. A CD as Cassie suggests would be good.

  128. Struth

    No, Struth. You remind me strongly of my supervisor. Old Australia.

    I resemble that remark.

  129. P

    Van Morrison’s anti-lockdown protest songs: ‘Don’t need the Government cramping my style’
    Youtube clip

  130. Cassie of Sydney

    I’ll buy your CD Struth.

  131. Leigh Lowe

    One of the very few things we have left now is taking the piss out of Dan Xi-Man via verse, song and satire.
    Showing him up for the fool he is.
    I think notafan linked to this from the Shovel earlier today.

    Daniel Andrews Refuses To Scrap 9pm Curfew But Agrees To Let Melburnians Read In Bed Until 9:30

    Journalist Chip le Grand re-tweeted it, but apparently the lemon-sucker #IstandwithDan mob are all over him for not clearly tagging it as satire.
    Hellooooo!
    If Joe Public can’t distinguish satire from Dan Xi-Man’s real directives, maybe the problem is with their Dear Leader.

  132. Leo G

    For that reason a part of my brain tells me to support him. My whole brain then kicks in and I return to sanity.

    Does that mean he still supports Trump, but without hearing the voices?

  133. Helen

    he’s trying!

    Makes me think of an old joke.

    School Report:
    Term one: Daniel is trying.
    Term two: Daniel is still trying.
    Term three: Daniel is even more trying.

    LOL

    Three Ages of Man

    Tri Weekly
    Try Weekly
    Try Weakly

  134. DrBeauGan

    I’ll buy your CD Struth.

    #MeToo.

    I think a bunch of anti-commo songs with an alternative to lefty hell and an emphasis on freedom and hope might do very well.

  135. Leigh Lowe

    Bwah, ha, ha, ha.
    Another gold nugget from the Shovel.
    Totally nails the Melbourne inner-city hipster.

  136. notafan

    Yes LL and then one of #IStandWithDanAndrews morons said erg arg LNP supporters are the real dumb ones.

  137. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    the latest arrivals also feel that pull from the land and are suffering deeply from their unending incarceration here in Victoria.

    Yes, we have a free-wheelin’ heritage – shearers, drovers, land workers, truckies and the more recent followers of the seasons and harvesters. It’s put into us deeply somewhere, it’s what all human beings do. Paul Devereaux wrote a book called ‘The Sacred Place” about it – ‘a complex interaction between physical location and human mental processes, which are framed by cultural beliefs and perceptions’. In places of our heritage and upbringing there is what he calls an ‘aura of sanctity’ about some of the places we can feel somehow in our bones, what he calls ‘a cultural and mental archive’. I have it about the vista looking down from where I lived as a child in St. Marys in Western Sydney, that outline cut and dip in the blue mountains rising above Penrith, and which has now vanished from in front of the old fibro house where we lived which still stands there, for trees over the road completely obscure it these days. I felt I had lost a part of my soul when Hairy took me there recently and I found it gone. Still, I have taken the views from the Dorrigo Plateau where we explored on our recent trip down from Qld during the great week of ‘the opening’ and that is mine now, cherished as still the Old Australia I grew up in. We will go west soon on another road adventure; poor people in Victoria are pining for that free-wheeling Aussie chance.

    Rotten, rotten, Dan.

  138. notafan

    Have the five families been fined?

    I bet not.

  139. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    I’ll buy your CD Struth.

    As will I, Struth!

  140. Franx

    Scientists

    “Many human scientists are are trying to ride the bandwagon of the physicists and chemists, and a science of man is pursued as though man were just another electron or atom.

    As long as human science is of that type, as long as it is carried out in that manner, we shall have creeping socialism.

    For if the scientific knowledge of man is is in terms of the types of knowledge that are possible of electrons and atoms, then there is no question of developing a science of man that can speak to man.

    Rather, we simply develop scientists who are consultants to government, thereby giving government more power to control man”

    (Bernard Lonergan, 1958, putting the case for integrating philosophy and theology into the sciences)

  141. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I will get Hairy to buy your CD too, Struth.
    Promise.
    We won’t pirate it from Cassie’s copy. 🙂

  142. Terry Pedersen

    For old Mimi upthread who questioned Dr Jeanette Young’s qualifications

    I am currently the Chief Health Officer & Deputy Director-General, Prevention Division of
    Queensland Health. I have been in this role since 11 August 2005. My qualifications
    include MBBS(Syd), MBA, DUniv(Griffith), DUniv(QUT), FRACMA, FFPH,
    FCHSM(Hon). I have specialist qualifications as a Fellow of the Royal Australasian
    College of Medical Administrators and as a Fellow by Distinction of the Faculty of Public
    Health of the Royal College of Physicians of the United Kingdom. l am also an Adjunct
    Professor in the Centre for Environment and Population Health at Griffith University, an
    Adjunct Professor in the School of Public Health and Social Work at the Queensland
    University of Technology and an Adjunct Professor at the University of Queensland.

    A bit more that an alleged short course in medical stats at the home of Honi Soit.

  143. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Have the five families been fined?

    I bet not.

    Is there any way to find out? If not fined, why not?

    ‘We’re all in this together’ etc.

  144. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Phew. That link back thread to Vicplod McLeod losing his cool shows just what this insanity is doing to people tasked with objectionable controlling who are probably normal in non-despotic times.

  145. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Shepparton man sues Goulburn Valley Health after losing penis to flesh-eating bacteria

    Madi Chwasta, The Goulburn Valley News
    Subscriber only
    |
    September 18, 2020 4:20pm

    A Shepparton patient who lost his penis to flesh-eating bacteria is suing Goulburn Valley Health for allegedly failing to treat him “adequately”.

    In a writ filed to the Supreme Court on Monday, Wayne Grundy claimed he developed a “severe bacterial infection” and “necrotising fasciitis” – or flesh-eating disease – on his penis and scrotum area during a week-long stay at the Graham St hospital in April and May of 2018.

    The now 70-year-old alleges Goulburn Valley Health “failed to adequately or properly assess the penis adequately or at all” when he presented to the hospital with swollen genitalia.

    Among the claims, the public hospital allegedly “failed to administer antibiotics for the first 1.5 days of the treatment” did not “immediately” transfer Mr Grundy to the “Royal Melbourne Hospital or a similar such specialist hospital when the diagnosis of sepsis was made”.

    The alleged botched treatment lead to the amputation of his penis, the loss of his left testes and repositioning of his right testes.

    Mr Grundy now suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and “psychological upset together with depression and anxiety”, according to the writ.

  146. Anne

    The conspiracy to enslave humanity is no longer a theory. You’re living it.

    AFL legend Gary Ablett Sr. has uploaded a lengthy face-to-camera video in which he claims the coronavirus was “deliberately made and designed, and deliberately released” by the Illuminati and other secret societies.

    https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/deliberately-made-gary-ablett-snrs-shares-radical-coronavirus-conspiracy-theories/news-story/0fa2b3c0208fb291dda20df31cc7666b

  147. jupes

    A bit more that an alleged short course in medical stats at the home of Honi Soit.

    Still a brain-dead fuckwit.

    Dumb as a box of hammers.

  148. Makka

    If not fined, why not?

    RoP. That’s why not.

  149. jupes

    The conspiracy to enslave humanity is no longer a theory. You’re living it.

    Can’t say I agree with all of Ablett Snr’s rant Anne, but he has nailed this bit:

    “I’m not normally one to come out and do videos like this but I feel that angry at what’s going on, the corruption, the high level corruption,” Ablett Sr. said.

    “We need to wake up Australians. We need to wake up and rise up and stand against this stuff.”

  150. Bruce of Newcastle

    Tastes like chicken.

    McDonald’s is selling a $90, 3-foot-long Chicken McNugget body pillow

    Hopefully they’ll bring out a Big Mac shaped beanbag too.

  151. JC

    Annie

    You need to calm down and focus on one theory at a time.

  152. incoherent rambler

    You need to calm down and focus on one theory at a time.

    Has anyone seen JC and Annie in the same room?

  153. Cassie of Sydney

    I never click on Anne’s links.

  154. Cassie of Sydney

    Barilaro is taking mental health leave…for four weeks.

  155. Herodotus

    Kamala, Kamala,
    We’re all in a daze,
    The nature of politics
    Has gone in the haze.
    But you are young,
    And everything is new,
    Impatient to do things you shouldn’t do.
    Oh, Kamala, Kamala,
    You’ve started to throw
    Your weight on the side of extremists, you know?

  156. vlad

    I am currently the Chief Health Officer & Deputy Director-General, Prevention Division of Queensland Health. I have been in this role since 11 August 2005. My qualifications include MBBS(Syd), MBA, DUniv(Griffith), DUniv(QUT), FRACMA, FFPH, FCHSM(Hon).

    I don’t take seriously people who claim honorary doctorates as qualifications.

    And she’s another “junk professor”. Adjunct this, adjunct that.

  157. Tim Neilson

    Terry Pedersen
    #3589522, posted on September 18, 2020 at 5:18 pm

    MBBS(Syd),
    As was said.
    MBA,
    Not a medical qualification. Query it’s relevance here, any more than if she used AMusA as a qualification.
    DUniv(Griffith), DUniv(QUT),
    Honorary awards, not qualifications.
    FRACMA,
    “Administration” – see below, i.e. not medical.
    FFPH, “Fellow by Distinction” – see below; does that mean honorary?
    FCHSM(Hon). “((Hon)”, i.e. honorary.
    And a few “Adjunct Professor” appointments.
    Real qualifications of relevance, MBBS. Like people said.

    I have specialist qualifications as a Fellow of the Royal Australasian
    College of Medical Administrators and as a Fellow by Distinction of the Faculty of Public
    Health of the Royal College of Physicians of the United Kingdom. l am also an Adjunct
    Professor in the Centre for Environment and Population Health at Griffith University, an
    Adjunct Professor in the School of Public Health and Social Work at the Queensland
    University of Technology and an Adjunct Professor at the University of Queensland.

  158. Bundyrum

    Cassie, would you click on Anne’s links if it was from the Oz?

  159. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘AFL legend Gary Ablett Sr. has uploaded a lengthy face-to-camera video in which he claims the coronavirus was “deliberately made and designed, and deliberately released” by the Illuminati’

    Yup. Ablett Snr. Massive credibility.

    Great footy player. No question. Also a junkie, kept getting caught with hookers in his car off Grey Street in St. Kilda two at a time whilst born again Christianing his way through the gutter, and should have done a very decent stretch for leaving an overdosing younger junkie to die in his hotel room.

    No surprise the Illuminati gets a mention.

  160. Anne

    Just shopping for merch on the VicPol website.

    Plenty of Freemason masks but they seem to be out of “Hail Lucifer” coffee cups.

    https://copshop.com.au/product/freemasons-mask-navy/

  161. Leigh Lowe

    notafan
    #3589518, posted on September 18, 2020 at 5:14 pm
    Have the five families been fined?

    I bet not.

    Snort, cackle.
    Mrs L just got off a phone hook-up with family.
    Her “doctor’s wife” type sister went all head-tilty saying there needs to be more effort put into getting the message out to multi-cultis.
    Mrs L : “What! They’d have to be living under a freakin’ rock not to know about it. Even if they were watching Al Jazerah or Turkish news on SBS they couldn’t miss it. And guess what? They haven’t been living under a rock. They’ve been happily wandering around all over the place. Didn’t it occur to them to ask why everyone was wearing masks and why the mosque had been shut for eight freakin’ weeks?”
    Silence on the line.
    Me … quietly humming away in the next room.

  162. Tim Neilson

    vlad
    #3589539, posted on September 18, 2020 at 5:36 pm
    Snap!

    Yes, but you were more succinct!

  163. Cassie of Sydney

    “Bundyrum
    #3589540, posted on September 18, 2020 at 5:36 pm
    Cassie, would you click on Anne’s links if it was from the Oz?”

    Runnybum…why are you so obssessed with the Oz?

  164. Roger

    A bit more that an alleged short course in medical stats at the home of Honi Soit.

    The doctroates are honorary.

    Her only earned academic qualifications remain an MBBS & MBA, as stated.

    She would have sat exams to enter the professional colleges.

    I have specialist qualifications as a Fellow of the Royal Australasian
    College of Medical Administrators…

    Who does that entitle her to treat in her “speciality”? Absolutely nobody.

  165. Makka

    I have specialist qualifications as a Fellow of the Royal Australasian
    College of Medical Administrators…

    Who does that entitle her to treat in her “speciality”? Absolutely nobody.

    Yes, a glorified data entry clerk.

  166. vlad

    “With a self-described short attention span, she decided to go into fast-paced emergency medicine, where patients are treated quickly then moved on.”

    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/jeannette-young-who-is-the-woman-leading-queensland-s-fight-against-covid-19-20200406-p54hmd.html

    I wonder if that’s the answer she memorised in case the interviewer asked what’s an area of weakness?

    “Well, I have a short attention span.”

    Thinking to myself “Okay, you’re stupid, is what you mean”, I’d say: NEXT!!!

  167. jupes

    Plenty of Freemason masks but they seem to be out of “Hail Lucifer” coffee cups.

    Anne are Freemasons evil?

  168. JC

    Has anyone seen JC and Annie in the same room?

    Rambler. She put up a pic of herself one time and Annie’s quite cute looking. She therefore gets a pass.

    It’s a way of not being sexist.

  169. Bundyrum

    Lassie, I am not obsessed with the Oz, I don’t have a sub, do you?

  170. incoherent rambler

    So mean, Rambler.

    Forgive me Anne.
    Sometimes I can’ t control my Freemason genes.

  171. miltonf

    Very telling picture on Spiked of bLIAR and Major palling it up. The political class is the enemy of the people. Demonrats are also trying to wreck Brexit which is not surprising.

  172. Roger

    “With a self-described short attention span, she decided to go into fast-paced emergency medicine, where patients are treated quickly then moved on.”

    However, that wasn’t for her in the long run, so she went into medical administration.

    At best she’s a mediocrity, at worst…well, her decisions on Blackwater & school closures suggest she’s an incompetent harridan.

  173. cohenite

    Avi over $80K and heading for new target of $100K; obviously he wants Bret Walker SC for a day.

  174. jo

    Winston Smith
    #3589496, posted on September 18, 2020 at 4:52 pm

    John Comnenus:
    Where’s ya bin?
    No, where’s ya really bin?

    I’s tell everyone I’s bin up north but I’s really bin in gaol. If I’s in twoomba I’s bin chicken.

  175. calli

    Shake hands with Anne, Rambler. 😁

  176. Arky

    I’s bin chicken.

    ..
    It’s: Ich bin ein chicken.

  177. Helen

    I liked your Maree song, Struth. Good on you. Loved the pic of the boabs in the sunset reflected. Brilliant.

  178. Bruce of Newcastle

    I like how Honi Soit is now a distinctive description. Pretty accurate. Used to browse it lunchtimes in the Uni cafeteria in the early eighties. Many trees died unjustly to give a medium to print such crud onto. Inane and indigestible. Coles catalogues would’ve been more interesting even then.

  179. Struth

    We can pull each other apart on what part of the swamp, if not all og it, is doing us in.

    They are playing us at this right now in my opinion.

    It’s not Sco Mo, it’s the states.
    It’s not Global socialists, it’s local idiot bureaucrats that is all.

    It’s not Liberal. it’s Labor.

    Blah blah.

    It’s unaccountable and unelected government swamp whether it’s international or national.

    Do we not act against them until we find who exactly we can all agree on, is the culprit.

    Funny, but when it came to covid, that swamp doesn’t want to wait to see who has it and who doesn’t, they just imprison the whole population.
    Probably time for us to take a whole of government approach to the blame.

  180. Bundyrum

    We should change the rules in this country, we should have recalls for the political class, also we should vote for judges & police chiefs, if the shits don’t perform , boot the useless bastards out.
    Look at this place (Qld) we have an ex fire chief is now chief cop & surprise surprise a female, these people are given high positions purely for having a vagina.
    Meritocracy should be the qualifying reason, Qld has too much political correctness, same as that fat bag in Vic, useless as all fk.

  181. miltonf

    Similarly Bruce, Tharunka was left wing lezzo muck. Mental vomit.

  182. MatrixTransform

    Me … quietly humming away in the next room.

    **chuckles

    I been having a few moments like that myself

    they’re nice

  183. dover_beach

    A distinguishing feature.of religion is believing things on faith rather than evidence.

    Not at all. Faith depends upon trust. See the terms faithful and faithless which make no sense using your definition. Faith as trust makes sense of religio, to bind.

  184. Leigh Lowe

    lad
    #3589537, posted on September 18, 2020 at 5:35 pm
    I am currently the Chief Health Officer & Deputy Director-General, Prevention Division of Queensland Health. I have been in this role since 11 August 2005. My qualifications include MBBS(Syd), MBA, DUniv(Griffith), DUniv(QUT), FRACMA, FFPH, FCHSM(Hon).

    I don’t take seriously people who claim honorary doctorates as qualifications.

    In fact, most universities don’t permit you to use it as a “CV padder”.
    They don’t do a lot to police those who mis-use the honour, but it is usually a condition of award that you don’t.

  185. MatrixTransform

    Who does that entitle her to treat in her “speciality”?

    I bet she’s really nice to the accountants

  186. Roger

    Faith depends upon trust. See the terms faithful and faithless which make no sense using your definition. Faith as trust makes sense of religio, to bind.

    Actually, faith in the Biblical/NT sense [Πίστις] is trust.

  187. Crossie

    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
    #3589519, posted on September 18, 2020 at 5:14 pm
    I’ll buy your CD Struth.

    As will I, Struth!

    Struth, what about marketing it on iTunes?

  188. Leigh Lowe

    vlad
    #3589552, posted on September 18, 2020 at 5:43 pm
    “With a self-described short attention span, she decided to go into fast-paced emergency medicine, where patients are treated quickly then moved on.”

    Translation :-

    Upon graduating they told me I would be OK at stitches, band-aids and mercurochrome and maybe setting broken bones, but open-heart operations or neuro-surgery probably wasn’t for me.

  189. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Righto, Terrence. Just spotted you. Nothing ‘alleged’ about my MPH. Epidemiological methods and stats 25 hours weekly for 50 solid weeks was not really a ‘short course’ in the distinguished Faculty of Medicine at SU as it was in my day of studying there. We worked 8.30 to 5.00, also covering other public health issues. This was NOT a Micky-Mouse piece of study but a solid training – my endocrinologist, who charges $500 for an initial consultation, is happy to have MPH in his qualifications. I then spent a further year of my higher degree on original individual epidemiological research for a thesis. So I do know a little about the field and, as a Lecturer and Senior Lecturer for many years in top uni’s, its academic aspects. I know how things are done in academia and am well-versed on numerous Selection Committees in reading CV’s.

    Thus, re Dr. Young:

    “I have specialist qualifications as a Fellow of the Royal Australasian
    College of Medical Administrators”

    Yes, she was a Medical Administrator in a hospital. Obviously, with a good network in academia.

    ” and as a Fellow by Distinction of the Faculty of Public
    Health of the Royal College of Physicians of the United Kingdom.”

    Hospital Administration is a Speciality in Public Health. So are areas other than epidemiology.
    I had to study hospital administration, infection control, and do a 3 week stint in a rural hospital. Piece of cake. Not epidemiology though.

    “l am also an Adjunct Professor in the Centre for Environment and Population Health at Griffith University, and Adjunct Professor in the School of Public Health and Social Work at the Queensland
    University of Technology and an Adjunct Professor at the University of Queensland.”

    Let’s be quite clear here. Adjunct Professorships are not professorships. They draw on certain competences and are not necessarily – in fact not very often – based on research and publications in the manner of full professorial appointments. As a Head of a university department prior to retirement I have fostered Adjunct relationships myself. I know how loose and tenuous they can be unless carefully chosen and monitored. Without further qualifications, I’d expect Dr Young would have been drawing upon her administrative history here too.

    “I have specialist qualifications as a Fellow of the Royal Australasian
    College of Medical Administrators and as a Fellow by Distinction of the Faculty of Public
    Health of the Royal College of Physicians of the United Kingdom.”

    Ditto – for administrative experience I would expect unless Dr. Young comes with a solid publication record beyond administration. I do not doubt her capabilities in hospital administration, by the way, but is that what is required for her current position?

    “l am also an Adjunct Professor in the Centre for Environment and Population Health at Griffith University,”

    Again, Adjunct and in what capacity? ‘Environment’ in any title also raises a few issues with me. Perhaps she has published in this field?

    “Adjunct Professor in the School of Public Health and Social Work at the Queensland
    University of Technology and an Adjunct Professor at the University of Queensland.”

    Adjuncts once more, one with a Social Work banner attached, and no academic area mentioned for UQ.
    Finally, how recently were some of these relationships forged and appointments made?

    Dr. Young is no doubt doing her best, but not just in my eyes has she been found wanting as an effective adviser. She is advising concerning medical issues for a whole State, not a hospital. There is a great deal of epidemiological publication around Covid19 that Dr. Young seems not to have read or if she has read it she has seen no need to act upon it, nor even to reassure the people whom she makes rules for that she has considered a range differing opinions before arriving at her own judgements and determinations. Nor has she justified some of her dictates with epidemiological support for them.

  190. Bundyrum

    Unless the Australian voter comes to the understanding that the politicians have fkd us over for years there will be no change, it will only get worse.
    The media is our enemy & until people really understand that, you can forget any meaningful change.
    Lift the international travel ban so I can make the choice of whether I want to live in this far left socialist shithole or let me go.
    I wish nothing but hate for you bastards & hope karma really fucks you over.

  191. Tim Neilson

    However, that wasn’t for her in the long run, so she went into medical administration.

    Well done. Very tactful way of saying “she couldn’t make the cut in it”.

  192. Entropy

    Griffith is a foreign student farm masquerading as a Dawkins Uni in the scrub south of Brisbane CBD. It is best not to take anything seriously that comes from there.

  193. calli

    It’s a Fiskorama!

    To be expected after a Socknado.

  194. Nick

    Congratulations to Vincent Namatjira, who has been announced as a finalist in the 2020 Archibald Prize!
    This is Vincent’s fourth consecutive year as an Archibald Prize finalist. ⚡️

    This year he has painted Adam Goodes, who he describes as “a proud Aboriginal man who stands strong for his people. Goodesy makes a strong stand against racism. I stand strong with you too, brother.”

    The ‘artwork’

    https://static.ffx.io/images/$zoom_0.378%2C$multiply_1.9259%2C$ratio_1.5%2C$width_756%2C$x_0%2C$y_0/t_crop_custom/q_62%2Cf_auto/aa83ef6930cdb7ec2c3fc012364212501aedbaec

  195. Anne

    Anne are Freemasons evil?

    You haven’t got a very good memory, Jupes.

    I told you that four years ago.

  196. Anne

    You’re quite forgiven, Rambler.

    No one can stay mad at you.

  197. Herodotus

    Adam Goodes was a sporting hero until he became an unsporting bully against a kid.
    Did the portrait show any doubts?

  198. Sweden called it correctly. This will only become clearer the longer this goes.

    Another way of saying – “What Sweden has done has made SFA difference to the actual economic result, but hey, I’ll just kick the whole thing down the road….”

    If Sweden’s less restrictive policies had worked, we wouldn’t be seeing this

    Sweden, which had much less severe COVID-19 containment measures compared to other countries, recorded an 8.3 percent contraction in the June quarter and 0.2 per cent growth in the March quarter.

    Australia has done better.

    In fact, international comparisons indicate no tight correlation between lighter restrictions and less severe economic impacts. There are simply too many variables.

    But this is Catallaxy, where the issues have to be reduced to glib simplicity so that the usual suspects can get their snake brains to the point where they can understand them.

  199. Bruce of Newcastle

    Only a lefty could manage to do this.

    Washington Gov. Jay Inslee gives maggot-infested apples to wildfire victims (17 Sep, via Instapundit)

    Washington state is known for its apples — but Gov. Jay Inslee didn’t appear to do the popular fruit any public-relations favors last week.

    The Democrat, in an effort to bring comfort to communities in Eastern Washington devastated by recent wildfires, unknowingly and illegally gifted baskets of apples from his orchard in Olympia that were later found to be infested with apple maggot larvae, according to reports.

    Thurston County, where Inslee lives, is an apple maggot quarantine area –meaning it was illegal for Inslee to bring homegrown apples from that area to a non-quarantine area like Douglas County, according to Q13 FOX in Seattle.

    Have an illegal maggot and like it, peasant.

  200. MatrixTransform

    you are so very retarded, Numpty

  201. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    “Well, I have a short attention span.”

    Ye gods.

    Focus is everything in medicine and science.

  202. Roger

    There are simply too many variables.

    Doesn’t stop him from making a comparison between Sweden & Australia in the very same comment though.

  203. Jo:

    I’s tell everyone I’s bin up north but I’s really bin in gaol. If I’s in twoomba I’s bin chicken.

    I was hoping someone would pick up on it…

  204. cohenite

    I reckon the hunchback is mad:

    Daniel Andrews’ plan for indefinite detention – and more
    Ian Hanke The Spectator Australia 18 September 2020
    The Victorian Labor government has introduced a bill to parliament that coupled with other measures is one of the most egregious attacks on civil liberties seen in war or peacetime. The Bill would allow people to be detained indefinitely and give sweeping powers to untrained people to become “authorised officers” with sweeping powers to arrest and detain fellow Victorians.
    Called the COVID-19 Omnibus (Emergency Measures) Amendment Bill, it overrides all other laws and legislation with the exception of the Charter of Human Rights (which the government ignores as it is not binding), the State Constitution Act 1975 and the laws created by the Bill itself.
    The Bill confers and extraordinary power to the Secretary of the Department of Health to appoint public servants as “authorised officers” with the same powers as police.
    However worse than that is a provision which allows the secretary to appoint any of the following as an “authorised officer”:
    [A] person the Secretary considers appropriate for appointment based on the person’s skills, attributes, experience or otherwise…
    This will expand the persons who may be appointed as authorised officers. It is intended to include additional public sector employees from Victoria as well as such employees from other Australian jurisdictions, and individuals with a connection to particular communities to ensure that certain activities, such as contact tracing, can be conducted in a culturally safe manner.
    This sweeping power means the Secretary could appoint anyone as an “authorised office”; a member of the ADF who already patrols Melbourne streets with police or even a member of the Hell’s Angels.
    The Bill is mute on the specifics of who could be appointed. The Secretary has been given carte blanche to appoint anyone who has the “skills, attributes, experience or otherwise”.
    The word “otherwise” so broad and non-specific it gives rise to real concerns about who the Secretary could or would appoint.
    Critically there is no mention in the Bill of what sort of training these “authorised officers” would be given or the equipment they would be issued with.
    If you thought the hotel quarantine scheme was a fiasco image the damage and drama that could be wrought by this proposal.
    The Bill also “provides that an authorised officer may be assisted by any person in exercising a public health risk power under an authorisation given by the Chief Health Officer.”
    That’s right. An untrained “authorised officer”, be they a public servant, a member of the ADF, or a Hells Angel would be able to co-opt any unsworn citizen in their duties.
    The Bill outlines some of the roles and powers these “authorise officers” may able to exercise under the State of Emergency powers.
    They include being able: to detain any person or group of persons in an emergency area for the period reasonably necessary to eliminate or reduce a serious risk to public health; to restrict the movement of any person or group of persons within an emergency area; to prevent any person or group of persons from entering an emergency area; and, to give any other direction that the authorised officer considers is reasonably necessary to protect public health.
    These powers given to untrained “authorised officers” could lead to shocking outcomes, particularly if citizens can be co-opted to assist.
    We have already seen examples of police heavy handiness in Victoria with police raids on housewives, the busting down of doors and so on simply because people have promoted on social media protests against the current health regime.
    Under the Bill designated authorised officers may be able to detain if “a direction has been given in the exercise of an emergency power” or if the officer “reasonably believes that a person who is required to comply with the direction is a high-risk person and is likely to refuse or fail to comply with the direction.”
    A high-risk person is someone the person has been “diagnosed with COVID-19 and has not been given clearance from self-isolation or they have been notified that they are in close contact with a person diagnosed with COVID-19.
    The Bill provides an emergency power to detain any person or group of persons in an emergency area for the period reasonably necessary to eliminate or reduce a serious risk to public health.
    Once detained you have no rights under law and can be detained for an indefinite period:
    Section 200(6) of the Public Health and Wellbeing Act 2008 requires an authorised officer to review, at least once every 24 hours during the period that a person is subject to detention under section 200(1)(a), whether the continued detention of the person is reasonably necessary to eliminate or reduce a serious risk to public health.
    Put simply, this means you can be locked up and detained indefinitely at the whim of a designated officer.
    There is no provision whatsoever for a review of the detention. Ultimately a person may have to apply to the Supreme Court to grant an order of Habeas Corpus for release.
    These extraordinary powers are arbitrary and extreme.
    They are a draconian attack on civil liberties the like of which Australia has never seen before.
    Further because all laws are overridden there would appear to be little recourse to any excesses by an authorised officer or their civilians co–opted by them. These laws are so broad and ill-defined that you could be detained for almost anything.
    Remember the emergency powers give “authorised officers” power to “detain any person or group” or “restrict the movement of people” or “prevent a person or group from entering an emergency area” or “give any other direction”.
    Nowhere in the Bill or its Explanatory Memorandum is a reason or justification given for the introduction of these extraordinary sweeping and ill-defined laws.
    These laws will operate side by side with the powers that already have Melburnians locked in their own homes for 22 hours a day; where the first-ever curfew in Australia’s history is in place; where freedom of movement is banned; where police and ADF personnel patrol the streets to enforce mask-wearing; where $5000 fines are handed out if you attempt to breach internal state borders and so on.
    These proposed laws are unjust, unnecessary and unjustified. They are a direct attack on citizens’ civil liberties.
    Even if this Bill is not passed it says much about the mindset of the Victorian government that it is prepared to assail its citizens’ rights.
    This Bill is a direct assault on our democracy.
    It should be rejected by the parliament

  205. Carpe Jugulum

    Lift the international travel ban so I can make the choice of whether I want to live in this far left socialist shithole or let me go.

    As an expat my advice is to leave. You will never regret it.

  206. Crossie

    I see Barillaro has taken four weeks off to get his mojo back. What’s the point? When he comes back Andrew Constance will still be there to get at him again.

    Didn’t Andrew Constance announce shortly after the fires that he will leave politics? It seems he found that making life difficult for Barillaro has given him a new lease of life though he seems very bored when making any transport related statements.

  207. Herodotus

    Mozart’s wonderful opera (or Singspiel if you prefer) The Magic Flute would never have seen the light of day or candles in the theatre but for freemasonry.
    Many pillars of the community right here in Australia have been masons. They were good men, not in any way evil.
    I know it is a matter of theology or doctrine that makes the Freemasons beyond the pale, and history might reveal instances or periods (long or short) of such things that no longer pass muster, but there are many things in the past that are similarly dodgy, including not a few Popes.
    To tar all those good men and true that I have known in my lifetime (second half of the 20th century to present) as evil is just wrong. I’m not a member now, nor in the past, but I have family members who are or were, and here we’re talking Methodists who were/are very straight people. This sort of broad-brush denigration is counter-productive unless you are a doctrinal extremist.

  208. Mater

    Terry Pedersen
    #3589522, posted on September 18, 2020 at 5:18 pm
    For old Mimi upthread who questioned Dr Jeanette Young’s qualifications

    Gee, Terry, that worked out well for you!

  209. vlad

    “Well, I have a short attention span.”

    Lizzie, just so you know, I made that quote up. I thought that would be clear. It’s a guess.

    The original article attributes something along those lines to her without quoting her directly.

  210. incoherent rambler

    these people are given high positions purely for having a vagina.

    I have one.
    She also cleans and cooks.

  211. “With a self-described short attention span, she decided to go into fast-paced emergency medicine, where patients are treated quickly then moved on.”

    Watching Jeannette Young at press conferences suggests she may be on the edge of the Autism spectrum, or possibly high functioning Aspergers..
    Many excellent doctors are – hence the development of the Doc Martin character.
    It has something to do with the capacity to block out all the extraneous social stuff, and concentrate laser-like on physical symptomatology.
    My brother is the same – socially obtuse, but an excellent diagnostician.
    Aspergers runs in the family.
    His hobby is also emergency medicine.

  212. Bundyrum:

    Unless the Australian voter comes to the understanding that the politicians have fkd us over for years there will be no change, it will only get worse.

    Australia has to – like the alcoholic – wake up one day in the gutter, covered in vomit/shit /piss and blood before it realises it has a problem.
    There is no point in trying to cushion the blow.
    The lesson that life is free and easy must be learned the hard way or it is not learned at all.

  213. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    However, that wasn’t for her in the long run, so she went into medical administration.

    Well done. Very tactful way of saying “she couldn’t make the cut in it”.

    I’m trying to imagine arriving in Emergency to meet Dr. Young’s tactical dither.
    Best not though. Lives at risk.

    Put her in charge of life and death in the State of Queensland instead.

  214. Roger

    Lizzie, just so you know, I made that quote up. I thought that would be clear. It’s a guess.

    The reporter used “self-described”, vlad.

  215. notafan

    Great people with little capacity for empathy deciding to close schools to teach people a lesson.

    Can see why so many compassionate requests were refused or delayed til pointless.

  216. calli

    Vomit.

    Where? I’ll fetch the Karcher.

  217. vlad

    The reporter used “self-described”, vlad.

    Thanks, Roger, yes, exactly.

  218. Mitch M.

    In fact, international comparisons indicate no tight correlation between lighter restrictions and less severe economic impacts. There are simply too many variables.

    The Swedish approach has been interesting and while Sweden if far from achieving so called herd immunity, a problematic concept in the absence of vaccines, it does appear to have the virus under control; albeit at the cost of 5,800 lives. The problem is the per capita metric. There needs to be a way to incorporate the population density.

  219. JC

    Unreal.

    On Monday, Kamala Harrisreferred in public to something she called the “Harris administration.” In a speech the next day, Mr. Biden himself referred to “a Harris-Biden administration.” If that’s how they want it, fine by me. From now on, it’s “the Harris-Biden campaign.”)

  220. calli

    Apparently Mt Panorama is too dangerous for crowds.

  221. Mitch M.

    Bundyrum:

    Unless the Australian voter comes to the understanding that the politicians have fkd us over for years there will be no change, it will only get worse.

    For decades Chomsky has been warning about the dangers of State power.

  222. incoherent rambler

    There needs to be a way to incorporate the population density.

    Th Dannograd population is very dense.

  223. Nick

    Chinese racism has been progressively airbrushed from this story

    According to the Hollywood Reporter, Boyega was not made aware of the recasting of the ad and only found out about it on Twitter.

    Tianwei Zhang, of Women’s Wear Daily, believes the recasting of Boyega was not racially motivated but purely a marketing decision.

    “I don’t think it’s fair to criticise brands wanting to engage deeper with the local audience and show respect to the market, which may appear odd to the mainstream Eurocentric views,” he said. “[Jo Malone] appointed Liu [for] the same reason they worked with Boyega: to acquire new customers, whether Chinese or Black.”

    It is not the first time Boyega has been erased from Chinese marketing materials. In 2015, Chinese posters for Star Wars: The Force Awakens sparked controversy after fans spotted that Boyega’s character Finn had been significantly reduced in size from the original poster.

  224. Roger

    His hobby is also emergency medicine.

    I do hope they don’t let him indulge his “hobby” at Toowoomba Base.

  225. Bundyrum

    Winston/ Carpe, as long as the younger generation understand that a big TV, means fk all we are fkd.
    There is no coming back from this political shit in the next decade or two unless the education system & the media are told to tell the truth…..good luck with that.

  226. Farmer Gez

    calli
    #3589631, posted on September 18, 2020 at 6:48 pm
    Vomit.

    Where? I’ll fetch the Karcher.

    Nausea by numbers.

  227. vlad

    Griffith University also gave an honorary doctorate to Rubin “the Hurricane” Carter, who was in all probability guilty of the triple murder he was accused of.

    After he was cleared on procedural grounds – and it was too late historically to put him to a third trial, although the DA wanted to – the case officially remains unsolved.

  228. notafan

    Queenslanders will be pleased to know one Victorian family have made the switch to permanent residency in their fair state.

    Died in the wool Dan fans they did a runner before the border slammed closed.

  229. Mitch M.

    incoherent rambler
    #3589639, posted on September 18, 2020 at 6:53 pm
    There needs to be a way to incorporate the population density.

    Th Dannograd population is very dense.

    Canaries in the gold mine. If any good is to come out of this it will involve constitutional changes to limit the power of pollies but what pollie will support a proposal to limit their power?🤣

  230. Geriatric Mayfly

    Herodotus
    Adam Goodes was a sporting hero until he became an unsporting bully against a kid.
    Did the portrait show any doubts?

    Went back and had another good look at it. I thought she may have been part of the symbolism somewhere, but buggered if I can find it.

  231. Roger

    Unreal.

    Harriden for short, JC.

  232. calli

    Time for the water cannon.

    Deep cleaning.

  233. vlad

    albeit at the cost of 5,800 lives.

    A grown-up society would accept that diseases kill people; you ameliorate that by medical means as best you can, not by shutting down the entire society.

  234. Bruce of Newcastle

    Meandering through the EPG with some dinner and nothing worth watching moviewise on free to air. Sad. But the SBS Kriol Kitchen ladies were doing serious damage to a kangaroo, any PETA people would throw up at the sight of a disjointed kangaroo tail on the barbie and a kanga stomach filled with stuff. Pop it in a hole in the ground on some hot coals, cover with corrugate iron and there we are! A fine lunch.

    And then the Forged in Fire guys had a real challenge. Make a Viking war axe from a train spring and coconuts. Who writes this? But any decent smith could do it. Carbon is carbon and steel is steel. You just put them together on a smithing furnace and hammer it a lot until what you want emerges, like Michelangelo did with marble.

  235. Mater

    My brother is the same – socially obtuse

    A family trait, I see.

  236. Roger

    If any good is to come out of this it will involve constitutional changes to limit the power of pollies…

    And CMOs.

  237. calli

    I thought she may have been part of the symbolism somewhere, but buggered if I can find it.

    It’s there.

    The “portrait” depicts “the face of racism in Australia”.

  238. Bruce in WA

    Many pillars of the community right here in Australia have been masons. They were good men, not in any way evil.

    My brother, father, grandfather and godfather were all Masons.

    A copper, a printer, a coachwork painter, a flower nursery owner — not a trace of evil among them. And every one of them a damn good man.

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