Tuesday Forum: September 15, 2020

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3,002 Responses to Tuesday Forum: September 15, 2020

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  1. johanna

    Link fail there (his site is a bit ratty). That’s a good one, though.

    I’ll try again:

    Oh dear, the hilarious story about how he comes out wearing cowboy boots and six guns and a hat to his lady, just as a song about chunky somethings comes on (from Madagascar) and she collapses in fits of laughter, has been disappeared.

    A sense of humour is a good antidote to pron.

  2. Roger

    So not just our very own Dr Young, we are controlled by the science of a coven of CMO’s.
    Where the fucking fuck did that come from?

    The National Cabinet.

    The CMOs/CHOs meet as the health committee thereof.

  3. Davey Boy

    A shorter summary of the threat to not deliver mail from PHON:

    In June, Hanson went too far for the Nine Network, which dumped her from its breakfast television show after she described public housing tenants in lockdown in Victoria as “drug addicts” and “alcoholics” who didn’t speak English and didn’t follow social distancing guidelines.
    In July, Hanson apparently sent the tenants stubby holders accompanied by a note “No Hard Feelings”.
    Complaining that people are alcoholics but then sending them a beer holder is classic trolling, particularly when many residents of the affected buildings are Mueslims.
    Because the buildings were in lockdown, Australia Post delivered the addressed items from Hanson to Melbourne city council officers who were overseeing the lockdown and delivery of goods to the residents. After discovering the contents of the Hanson letters, they decided not to distribute them, eliciting legal threats from Australia Post.

  4. feelthebern

    After discovering the contents of the Hanson letters, they decided not to distribute them, eliciting legal threats from Australia Post.

    This should result in many, many sackings.

  5. Helen

    Stubby Holders also keep cool drink cool, such as coke and fanta. Doesnt have to be grog.

  6. Dr Faustus

    The National Cabinet.
    The CMOs/CHOs meet as the health committee thereof.

    So, if Annastacia Dr Young decides to relax the 28-covid-free-day ‘rule’, any one of the State or Territory CMO’s can over-ride her science? Is that really how it works?

  7. custard

    Tucker Carlson had a guest on his program earlier claiming she had the proof of the WhuFlu being manufactured in a lab.

    Her Twitter account is now suspended.

    https://twitter.com/LiMengYAN119

  8. Boambee John

    He knows he would get his bum kicked in a fair election.

    m0nty’s definition of a fair election: One in which the Demorats are allowed to harvest votes, vote on behalf of the dead, and use household pets and non citizens as voters.

  9. johanna

    cassie keeps reflecting on the sexual proclivities of her opponents and gets away with it, again and again.

    I agree with the Doomlord about this, but for some reason she is protected.

  10. dover_beach

    Setting aside the language barrier, if what she alleges can be independently verified, what next? What potential repercussions could follow?

  11. johanna

    Oh, and Lizzie, don’t keep milking your brother’s death as though it was the first time anyone here had a close relative die.

    As usual, you are at the centre of the Grief Circle. In tasteful weeds.

    Plenty of people here have been bereaved without even mentioning it, let alone making themselves the centre of attention.

  12. incoherent rambler

    Unbelievable.
    Rusted on ALP young couple have “have had enough of the lunatic Andrews”.
    “Voting for Lib now” – they say.

  13. Cassie of Sydney

    “cassie keeps reflecting on the sexual proclivities of her opponents and gets away with it, again and again.

    I agree with the Doomlord about this, but for some reason she is protected.”

    LOL…I wonder who is the “Queen Narcissist” here…again and again and again.

    Stay classy Johanna…oh that’s right, you can’t.

  14. Cassie of Sydney

    “incoherent rambler
    #3587014, posted on September 16, 2020 at 2:40 pm
    Unbelievable.
    Rusted on ALP young couple have “have had enough of the lunatic Andrews”.
    “Voting for Lib now” – they say.”

    Yes but the Victorian election is two years away.

  15. feelthebern

    Rusted on ALP young couple have “have had enough of the lunatic Andrews”.
    “Voting for Lib now” – they say.

    Careful rambler.
    It’s a trap !

  16. “Unbelievable.
    Rusted on ALP young couple have “have had enough of the lunatic Andrews”.
    “Voting for Lib now” – they say.”

    The Global Luke-warming Party.

    They’ll give Dan a job reviewing the superannuation regulations.

  17. duncanm

    Melbournians.. you are now in a Kurt Russell movie.

    Anyone caught trying to flee Melbourne’s lockdown will face $4957 fine

  18. incoherent rambler

    Yes but the Victorian election is two years away.

    Yep. But Herr Reichsfuhrer may have poisoned the well for the lab feds.

  19. duncanm

    Where’s Snake Plissken when you need him?

  20. Gab

    Rusted on ALP young couple have “have had enough of the lunatic Andrews”.
    “Voting for Lib now” – they say.

    Election is not for two more years. By they they’ll have changed their tiny little minds.

  21. incoherent rambler

    It’s a trap !

    Yeah maybe.

  22. feelthebern

    Anyone caught trying to flee Melbourne’s lockdown will face $4957 fine

    Gunner = Snake Plissken.

  23. Cassie of Sydney

    “Election is not for two more years. By they they’ll have changed their tiny little minds.”

    That’s what I think Gab..these people have short memories.

  24. ““Election is not for two more years. By they they’ll have changed their tiny little minds.”

    That’s what I think Gab..these people have short memories.”

    Especially once the CCP loan cash starts flowing.

    You’ll have Alan Kohler banging on about how fast the Vic economy is growing.

  25. Bear Necessities

    I see Biden flew down to Florida for a “rally” of spicks. Cisco and Pancho showed up with a dog but that was about it. So he was assisted back to the plane and flown back to Scranton. His campaign is using lockdown to mask a total lack of enthusiasm and a total inability to perform under questioning. Biden loves that mask – it’s like a security blanket. Protecting Joe from the impertinent is the only remaining reason for coronavirus – and, from the left’s perspective, the most important one.

    Trump did a Townhall on the US ABC network on Tuesday night. He took unscripted questions from “undecided” voters for an hour and a half. The US ABC asked the Biden campaign if he would have a similar TownHall but the campaign said Biden’s schedule was too busy!

  26. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Makka at 1:09 pm:

    “… Shorter Mick; Please stop denigrating my cop mates. If only idiot commenters here could realise just how courageous they are, doing their thankless job of beating up mental patients …”

    Oh you do get shrill – quite emotional – when people don’t say what you want to hear!

    While you are so focused on inventing your distorted version of my opinion on police do please work your way through this – slowly now, sound out the longer words and move your finger along each line to help you understand what you are reading – you can read?

    “Mick Gold Coast QLD posted right here, at Catallaxy:

    You will recall Winston that Bracks appointed chubster Nixon a decade ago to imprint her incompetence, so we are well past the point of pondering the quality of what might replace the current lot. They are already the bottom of the barrel. The organisation has had ten years of degradation of every characteristic and it is left with nothing to be proud about.

    Historically the police took in the lower end of society’s classes and the least educated, put them in the hands of older boofheads, cynics and corrupt crooks in uniform who set about keeping the pedigree pure. Now they take in inexperienced young know-alls who will not deal with anything which might soil their hands.

    I cannot think of a single police minister since George Paciullo (’86) and Peter Anderson (’81) – I’m from NSW – who had any interest in police integrity. Along came Premier Carr in the mid ’90s, he appointed a Commissioner who saw himself more like the male lead on Neighbours, and that was the end of that.

    Former Victorian coppers I met 20 years ago, attached to extended family around Yarrawonga, did not impress me – they were big, fat, alcoholic, unfriendly and gruff (to conceal their lack of education) who remained in touch with each other as they ran their stolen car/goods insurance scams.

    As I write this I realise I have no solution. How does anyone of moment take on building a credible police force when the politicians insist on retaining complete control of criminal opportunity?”

    You are an idiot Makka, and pig ignorant with it. Go away, I am done with you.

  27. feelthebern

    The US ABC asked the Biden campaign if he would have a similar TownHall but the campaign said Biden’s schedule was too busy!

    No way.
    A DNC operative said via twitter that Biden will be doing one next week.
    If you can’t believe a DNC operative’s twitter, who can you trust?

  28. Roger

    So, if Annastacia Dr Young decides to relax the 28-covid-free-day ‘rule’, any one of the State or Territory CMO’s can over-ride her science? Is that really how it works?

    I don’t know.

    Their meetings aren’t minuted and published, which used to happen in days of yore with the Premiers’ Conferences.

    But it does sound like there is a veto power of sorts.

  29. Rex Anger

    m0nty’s definition of a fair election: One in which the Demorats are allowed to harvest votes, vote on behalf of the dead, and use household pets and non citizens as voters.

    Wot, just like last time?

    Where they lost anyway, despite every conceivable wngineered advantage?

    Oh mUntz. Poor, dear, sweet little mUntz. The French were beautifully prepared for the events of 1914 in 1940, and would have won convincingly too. But for a pack of uppity arseholes from the other side of the German border, with a better understanding of the lessons learned from that time, a stronger appreciation of geography, and being prepared to fight the mext war instead of the last one.

    2016 was 4 years ago, mUntz. And your chosen side is still trying desperately to win it.

    Heaven help them in their efforts to win in 2020, whe we get to the end of Pence’s or DJT Jr’s second term in 2032…

  30. Leigh Lowe

    The Labor agenda becomes clear.

    Bring “Aussies” back from overseas.
    Oh, and empty Christmas Island to accommodate them.

    And this is coming from Sneakers McGowan.
    Perfect response from the Feds (which won’t happen):-

    We will bring back as many people as each state or territory can guarantee quarantine positions for. The default state for quarantine will be the last Australian home address of the applicant.

    If Sneakers jacks up, it means no WA applicants can be repatriated.
    Over to you, Big Swinging Dick.

  31. Roger

    Qld’s public health emergency declaration expires on 2 October; it will be very interesting to see if an extension is sought given that nobody is actually sick.

  32. Cassie of Sydney

    “Rex Anger
    #3587048, posted on September 16, 2020 at 3:07 pm”

    Excellent comment RA.

  33. feelthebern

    McGowan wants to string this shit out until 13th March.
    QLD will open post 31st Oct, just like NT has done post their election.
    Good luck with that McGowan.
    How’s that WA/Bali bubble idea going too?

  34. Mother Lode

    The problem with the right is that they phoned it in re the culture over the last 50 years.

    In fairness, 50 years ago the government didn’t think it ‘owned’ culture and was not responsible for engineering outcomes.

    Culture was just what people did. It was handed down from generation to generation, it was encountered at the shops, in classroom, the workplace, at barbecues, and so on. No one was in charge. Everyone was in charge. People in government were expected to act in accordance with it.

    It was tested in the real world, tweaked in the light of experience, and subject to the approval of everyone according to how changes meshed with the organic whole.

    The left, as part of their grander strategy, took that over. They saw culture to be delivered from above by their more enlightened selves, because for them culture was meant to serve a political end. Time and again they sought to impose changes thought up in a committee or in an echo chamber far from the lives of ordinary people, trying to tinker one thing after another without any sense of what else would be affected – the genesis of all their ‘unintended consequences’ – and each cock-up driving them to greater presumption and more draconian methods.

    When they fiddled with the family, making single-parenthood and divorce almost heroic, making access to ever proliferating social security as easy as possible, they had no idea it would create wastelands of the multi-generational unemployed. They may have wanted an army of the feckless and discontented but now they have to deal with them too.

  35. feelthebern

    WA punters must be gagging for some time in North Perth.

  36. Leigh Lowe

    Sutton said something interesting at the enquiry.
    He said in an email to Murphy (Fed CMO) in early June that the security guards were drawn from “the wrong cohort”.
    Initially this was about casuals who were likely to turn up to work if sick.
    But today he also talked about “socio-economic groups”.
    Whatever could he mean?
    Murphy offered up ADF support but he doesn’t know if it was passed on.
    That was up to … Captain Cook van Diemen.
    Look out!!
    Incoming bus!!!

  37. Leigh Lowe

    Oh, and some hotel security guards wouldn’t use hand sanitiser “for religious reasons”.
    Presbyterians?

  38. Makka

    Mick, still bloviating and deflecting. It’s not working. Your comments here recently, which is what I am referring to not some swathe of historical histrionics you posted, are simply being summarized and clarified. So the essence is clear and not in your laborious meandering condescending waffle wherein you keep making excuses and pander to the thugs in VikPol these days while they brutalize citizens by virtue of their badge. Clearly I’m over the target, so fk off with the but but buts. They are as thin as gossamer.

  39. bern, gunner

    A match made in heaven.

    I could get behind a musical like this.

    Tony Soprano as Biggie Smalls.

  40. feelthebern

    God bless you dot.
    That is the Lord’s work.

  41. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Makka at 3:16 pm:

    “Mick, still bloviating and deflecting. It’s not working. Your comments here recently, which is what I am referring to not some swathe of historical histrionics you posted …”

    … that I posted just 48 hours ago, September 14 at 1:30 pm. 😁

  42. Cassie of Sydney

    There seems to be a new fred.

  43. Makka

    More stuff on Epstein , his island and the women.

    I’ve seen the doco and many of the articles with pictures etc. Funny, what I’m not seeing is any sign of distress or fear at the time the footage or images were taken. In fact they show the opposite. Happy people having fun.Yes he plied the girls with money and they kept coming back. So he should be up for carnal knowledge of underage teens for sure. From what the docco shows, none of those were virgins when he started cavorting with them. He used his money to help many with their education etc. If the girls were being roped, they did a very good job hiding their ill will. At the time.

    No doubt Epstein was an evil bastard, Maxwell also. I’m thinking though that his evil went much much further , far and wide. Honey traps ensnaring the great, powerful and useful would be my guess. Using that leverage viciously. In which case , the coming US election takes on a whole different complexion . If DJT loses, there will be great sighs of relief heard from over here I suspect.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8736113/Jeffrey-Epstein-watched-topless-teens-Girls-Gone-Wild-inspiration.html

  44. johanna

    Doomlord says, in caps, that he hates the attribution of sexual perversion to people.

    Yet Cassie does it again and again. It’s a fetish of hers, political opponents are probably perverts.

    She gets away with it with again and again – not even a slap on the wrist – apparently the DoomLord’s hates are selective.

  45. Rex Anger

    It’s a fetish of hers,

    Hmmm….

    This Anger appreciates that a comment of this nature, while it tickles his finely tuned sense of irony, is perhaps a good example of the aphorism about people in glass houses should not be throwing stones at each other.

    I am sorry to be such a pane…

  46. William the Conjuror

    From Mick GC:

    Go away, I am done with you.

  47. Cassie of Sydney

    “Yet Cassie does it again and again. It’s a fetish of hers, political opponents are probably perverts.

    She gets away with it with again and again – not even a slap on the wrist – apparently the DoomLord’s hates are selective.”

    Oooh….someone is angry. Actually Johanna..I haven’t used that word since Sinclair asked me not to. You see, I heed what he asks..it isn’t hard. Sinclair has also asked that people be civil to each other so why don’t you heed his request? Your comments to Lizzie, particularly last weekend, are vicious and vindictive. Oh and I don’t have any fetishes…but you clearly do…and one of your fetishes is to get off on being nasty to Lizzie.

    You’re a hypocrite….a nasty one at that.

  48. harrys on the boat

    Our next question comes from Diane, she’s the president of the Delaware Valley Young Socialists Club and is an undecided voter…

    Fucking hilarious!!

  49. Cassie of Sydney

    “This Anger appreciates that a comment of this nature, while it tickles his finely tuned sense of irony, is perhaps a good example of the aphorism about people in glass houses should not be throwing stones at each other.

    Touché

  50. incoherent rambler

    Dear Scotty and Herr Reichsführer Andrews,

    Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance.

    up yours
    IR

    h/t Oliver

  51. dover_beach

    In fairness, 50 years ago the government didn’t think it ‘owned’ culture and was not responsible for engineering outcomes.

    Culture was just what people did. It was handed down from generation to generation, it was encountered at the shops, in classroom, the workplace, at barbecues, and so on. No one was in charge. Everyone was in charge. People in government were expected to act in accordance with it.

    It was tested in the real world, tweaked in the light of experience, and subject to the approval of everyone according to how changes meshed with the organic whole.

    Granted, there is something to this, but it also underestimates the extent to which culture normally does come ‘from above’. The attitude was that no stewardship was required of an existing inheritance. We can let various cultural actors do as they pleased, in the movies, on TV,etc., we could allow educators to lower standards, linguistic, moral, and intellectual, etc., allow corporations and advertisers to market all manner of vice, and it would have no effect on cultural, moral, and intellectual standards; it would all come out in the wash. The other truly galling thing here is that we entrusted our inheritance to its enemies. The alumni of that generation which was pathologically critical of Western culture is the one now ‘cancelling’ Western culture.

  52. Top Ender

    Your taxes at work – where else but in Viktoria!

    An award-winning drug support worker from Richmond’s controversial injecting room dished out heroin to his clients — even taking them back to his home to share the drugs.

    Matthew Honey, 50, was meant to be encouraging drug users to get off the streets and use the North Richmond Community Health centre to inject drugs safely.

    But instead the community outreach worker would source drugs for his desperate clients, doing 108 deals on Richmond’s streets between September 5 and October 24 last year.

    He fronted Melbourne Magistrates Court on Wednesday where he pleaded guilty to trafficking heroin.

    A second charge of conspiring with others to traffic the drug of dependence was dropped.

    His lawyer Nadia Giorgianni told the court Honey should not face jail, but instead be placed on a community-based order.

    She said this was not a case where he was profiting from the drug trade and that he was simply trying to help his mates.

    “He buckled under pressure,” Ms Giorgianni said.

    “They are all his friends and have been for many, many years. They are all people he knew before he commenced working there.

    “When they were so desperate to purchase heroin some of them would sit there all day long hounding him. He found that part of the role particularly difficult.

    “Sometimes he would succumb to their requests and purchase heroin for them, or for them to use together.”

    Once the users had the drugs, she said some would take it away, others would use the facility, while “some of them would use it at Mr Honey’s home with them”.

    She said Honey had been a drug addict for three decades and that the clinic knew of his drug history.

    “The reason he was put in this role was because all of his friends were drug users,” she said.

    “There were a lot of overdoses occurring in that area.

    “These people didn’t want to use a safe injecting room. He was well trusted by the users. He was there to encourage the users to use the room safely.”

    She conceded Honey — who was named Alcohol and Other Drug Worker of the Year in 2018 — used drugs while employed at the clinic, but never used the rooms himself to inject.

    The father of two was arrested in October following a three-month undercover police sting, dubbed Operation Sievers.

    His plea comes after he last month successfully argued his case should remain in the lower court where penalties are less.

    Pushing for jail time, prosecutor Lachlan Cameron said it was serious offending that did not just involve Honey’s friends.

    He said Honey dealt drugs to a covert officer who he had never met before.

    Magistrate Keiran Gilligan said Honey’s offending was a “gross breach of trust”.

    He will sentence him later this month.

    Herald-Sun

  53. For years we have heard that “diversity” is a good thing. The quarantine has shown what can go wrong when diversity over rides the importance of the job itself. Human Resources type department heads should be using this as an example of the damage that can be done.

    You have to wonder if CMO, Police, Emergency Management, Health, Dept of Jobs, State Controller ever got senior guys together in same room and brain stormed the many issues that might arise.

    Leadership courses can use this for years on how to organise a disaster. The final report should be a best seller for this alone. However NY and Chicago Mayors might use is a plan to be followed.

    “Oh, and some hotel security guards wouldn’t use hand sanitiser “for religious reasons”.

  54. Bruce of Newcastle

    An award-winning drug support worker from Richmond’s controversial injecting room dished out heroin to his clients

    Heroin does actually turn people bonkers.

    Heroin-addicted individuals have unique brain disturbances resembling those of Alzheimer’s (15 Sep)

    Essentially, heroin ‘opened up’ the DNA at the FYN gene, which encodes a protein called tyrosine kinase FYN, that is strongly linked to synaptic plasticity and which directly results in production of Tau. Too much Tau in the brain is associated with neurodegenerative diseases.

    I wonder if Joe has been hitting the good stuff?

  55. Speedbox

    Prime Minister Scott Morrison will be banned from entering Queensland for the duration of the state election campaign unless he is prepared to pay $2800 to quarantine for 14 days in a government facility.

    Nearly seven weeks after he last entered the sunshine state, there is no sign that the Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk will lift the border bans before the October 31 election.

    Just reading the above on news. Don’t know whether it is a media beat-up or fair dinkum. Same would apply to Albenese.

  56. Des Deskperson

    ‘For years we have heard that “diversity” is a good thing.’

    In the APS, the line was – and maybe still is – that ‘diversity’ is not only fairer but actually improves efficiency and effectiveness, since different cultures can bring different perspectives to problem solving and innovation.

    It’s a classic example of ‘plausible wishful thinking’. It seems not an unreasonable proposition, there is just no evidence that it is actually true or that it works.

    And from a quick survey of M****m website on the issue, it’s clear – and supported by M****l scripture – that the use of alcohol as a disinfectant is not haram.

  57. Bruce of Newcastle

    Haha, Steve Keen, who has predicted the last 57 of the zero housing price crashes which have actually occurred, is now a climate nutter. I suspect a bad case of RDS.

  58. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    ScoMo could take a 14 day power break in a Qld compound guarded by the ADF just to make the point of who’s boss. She can’t keep him out of Qld. He could take trusted advisors in with him. It would be just like the football set up and Jeanette Young should be very happy about it because if Scottie did his work well, with cross overs to the Qld nightly news, it could be very rewarding indeed for Queensland. The Libs there need help to boot Anaesthesia out.

  59. Mark A

    RA

    Sorry to be such a pane

    I like. 👍😂

  60. cohenite

    So if the security guards fiasco were RoP then this would be their best terrorist attack in the West since the Twin Towers. Aided and abetted by the hunchback and his woke minions.

  61. P

    Mother Lode
    #3587059, posted on September 16, 2020 at 3:13 pm

    Thank you for your excellent comment.

    It had me thinking again of this article I read yesterday:

    Catholics say religious ed plan defies doctrine, while diocese defends curriculum

  62. kaysee

    Saying No to Vaccines (5:41)

    Children’s Health Defense is proud to stand with organizations and countries as we work together to pushback on medical mandates, unsafe vaccines, and increasingly totalitarian governments.
     
    In the coming months, these issues will be front and center in discussions around the world as people decide whether to cling tightly to their freedoms or blindly follow whatever edicts are put in place by corrupt government officials and profit-driven corporations.
     
    The making of this video was accomplished through the teamwork of organizations and individuals who will not stand by and watch liberty be stripped away from citizens little by little until total tyranny reigns.

  63. rickw

    It’s a classic example of ‘plausible wishful thinking’. It seems not an unreasonable proposition, there is just no evidence that it is actually true or that it works.

    Racial diversity doesn’t equate to intellectual diversity. What you want is intellectual diversity. Basically an all white team or all brown team can be incredibly diverse in the right way, whilst all appearing and sounding pretty much the same.

  64. Bar Beach Swimmer

    Struth, a bit more…

    Farewell to Australia forever
    Farewell to it’s freedoms as well
    For a small bunch of socialist nutters
    Hold the power to send us to hell.

    CH

    We’ve a despotic arsehole in Canberra
    Who along with his Premier mates,
    Is funding the taking of freedoms,
    As the putsch rolls all over the states

    CH

    He’s denied us our Document’s freedoms,
    While funding these coup d’etat corps
    As his words seek to coax our agreement,
    While the jackboots enforce all these laws

    CH

    His lies stand before all Australians
    As the Premiers hold out their hands
    While the people remain under curfew
    The poor country will never withstand

    Alternate Chorus:
    Singing, nothing and nothing forever,
    Singing sounds that sound shit in a mask
    No dancing, no lunching together,
    As the jacks take us a-all to task

  65. The Joe Rogan Experience for America, Mom and Apple Pie.

    One of these things I believe.

    Semper Fi and John Brown marches on.

  66. calli

    Sorry. We’ve already been singled out for tyrannical government Safety Love.

    Get in the queue.

  67. kaysee

    Vatican Academy Tweets Image of Virgin Mary Holding Black Jesus

    The Pontifical Academy of Life has tweeted out a photoshopped version of Michelangelo’s statue of the Pietà, making the body of Jesus black.
     
    In its tweet, the Pontifical Academy, headed by Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, calls the photo “An image that is worth a speech.”

  68. Siltstone

    Calli, Australia “singled out” for having one species extinction in the last decade (along with Brazil and Cameroon). Great news! We are usually told hundred or thousands of species become extinct yearly. Rejoice.

  69. Roger

    Dan Andrews rejects calls from Monash Uni medical perfessers to cancel daylight saving.

    It seems everything from car accidents to heart attacks shows a c. +20% spike when the clocks are turned forward. Or is it backwards? Thank God I’m in Queensland.

    Anyway, it seems some experts can be safely ignored by Dan, especially if their advice interferes with his new beaut plans for slow lockdown release.

  70. cohenite

    Joel fitzgibbin on kenny spruiking about gas; what a hypocrite; he got the scare of his useless life from the PHON coalminer and now he’s pretending his pro-coal. PHON have to really concentrate on his federal seat because he’s the only liar even making a token effort to support fossils.

  71. Leigh Lowe

    From Top Ender’s link at 4:14 on the Richmond injecting centre dealer :-

    She said this was not a case where he was profiting from the drug trade and that he was simply trying to help his mates.

    Pushing for jail time, prosecutor Lachlan Cameron said it was serious offending that did not just involve Honey’s friends.

    He said Honey dealt drugs to a covert officer who he had never met before.

    Someone is engaging in truthiness here.

  72. Nick

    LL, , I saw that Faulty was predicting a date that has already been gazetted. Too funny.

  73. Leigh Lowe

    kaysee

    #3587187, posted on September 16, 2020 at 5:18 pm

    Saying No to Vaccines (5:41)

    RFK Jnr is a certifiable nut-job.
    If it wasn’t for Uncle Ted, he would be the worst ever Kennedy.

  74. Bruce of Newcastle

    Pizza is amazing.

    Her work at this field site in rural Nuñoa, Peru, began in 2012. Nuñoa, with its extreme climate and at elevations 3,850 to 5,500 meters above sea level, sits about 150 miles southeast of Cusco, a frequent starting point for tourists before they climb Machu Picchu. Twenty-five years ago, Cusco had few pizzerias, and those that were around catered solely to visitors. “As tourism around the region continued to grow, pizzerias started popping up all over,” Hoke says.

    With an increased demand for pizza came an increased demand for cheese, spurring a nascent dairy industry where one hadn’t before existed. “Local governments, NGOs, and communities started pushing dairying as a rural-development strategy,” Hoke says. “Farmers there produce cheese and yogurt. All of this economic change was sparked by pizza.”

    Free market capitalism at its best. Prosperity, better child health and a whole new industry, all because of pizza.

    Pizza, a nascent dairy industry, and infant health in the Peruvian highlands (14 Sep)

  75. Bar Beach Swimmer

    Struth, finished.

    If I had the wings of a turtledove
    Away from this country, I’d fly
    Straight into the arms of The President
    And await Trumpy’s re-ectify

  76. Cassie of Sydney

    kaysee
    #3587187, posted on September 16, 2020 at 5:18 pm”

    Robert Kennedy Jnr is a complete nut case. He is anti all vaccines and he supports and spruiks the totally discredited Andrew Wakefield.

  77. Siltstone:

    Calli, Australia “singled out” for having one species extinction in the last decade (along with Brazil and Cameroon). Great news! We are usually told hundred or thousands of species become extinct yearly. Rejoice.

    Most of these ‘extinctions’ are reversed when a mine wants to drill in an area.
    As with everything they touch, the creatures that are being saved are of no consequence or we would be able to buy them as pets. I’d like a few spotted quoll or similar for a cage where they have little chance of being predated on, and every generation or so swap with another owner to prevent inbreeding.
    But no, Greenies would rather they went extinct raher than let some poor old pensioner have a pet.

  78. vlad

    Dan Andrews rejects calls from Monash Uni medical perfessers to cancel daylight saving.

    That cause has a strange hold upon the weak minded. It’s all I’d expect of the Little Dictator to kowtow to it.

  79. Well

    It seems everything from car accidents to heart attacks shows a c. +20% spike when the clocks are turned forward. Or is it backwards? Thank God I’m in Queensland.

    It’s just warmer weather and more daylight. Property crime goes down in colder months as well.

  80. Philby

    Mick why don’t you just apologise to the young father for your uninformed comments and to cats for the shit you posted and kept posting despite knowing you were totally wrong.
    “Deranged nutter” ? Try looking in the mirror🤪
    Enough paragraphs for you.

  81. Siltstone

    Winston, yes, environmental surveys for mining and gas projects are confirming continued presence of “threatened” species regularly. The Commonwealth environmental act listing “extinct” species had 115 plants and animals on it when it started in 1992. Today the relevant act has 93 species on it. Greenies cannot cope with this fact.

  82. Leigh Lowe

    Nick

    #3587220, posted on September 16, 2020 at 5:47 pm

    LL, , I saw that Faulty was predicting a date that has already been gazetted. Too funny.

    Yeah, I understand what’s happened here.
    He’s gone through a box of balls and hasn’t hit a fairway.
    I get it.
    Time to put the driver away and use a mid iron off the tee.
    But he’s packed it in and gone back to mini-golf.

  83. Roger

    IT, words fail me.

    Is that real?

    (Serious question.)

  84. Shy Ted

    Struth, for Botany Bay you could use this long forgotten classic from the football terraces, it nearly fits –
    If I had the wings of an eagle
    If I had the arse of a cow
    I’d fly over federal pollies
    And shot (with an i) the bustards (with 2 a’s) below

  85. Helen

    Babies on formula fed meat as their protein source were longer with lower BMI than those fed cheese and dairy – interesting.

  86. vlad

    Is that real?

    (Serious question.)

    No. Sleepy Joe played Despacito on his phone. The original was bizarre enough; I think the DJT team here has over-egged the pudding.

  87. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    What sort of mosquito became extinct in Oz this year? And only one?

  88. Roger

    Thanks vlad.

    I see Trump’s point, but mmm…

  89. calli

    Far better to stick with the truth. That is disturbing – gilding it is just dishonest.

  90. Delta A

    We are witnessing greatness:

    We can laugh or cringe or ‘WTF!’, but the truth is that Joe Biden is very unwell and is being used shamelessly by the Democrats.

    My grandfather died with dementia. In the last year he was confused, rambling, exasperating and frankly, ridiculous. But we didn’t shove him into the public limelight to make a fool of himself again and again. We protected him, tolerated his outbursts and clung to the memory of the wonderful man he used to be.

    The democrats and the Biden family should be ashamed for exploiting this poor man.

  91. Cassie of Sydney

    “The democrats and the Biden family should be ashamed for exploiting this poor man.”

    Yep…you can hear the senility in his voice when he speaks……it is very disturbing. I just can’t believe that there is even a chance he will be elected. If he is I doubt whether he will be inaugurated.

  92. notafan

    Some regional Victorians, well at least one, are horrified they are going back to stage three

    Only Dan can save us.

  93. Mark A

    Why do meteorites always land in craters??

    🤔

  94. Infidel Tiger

    Fuck tha Police is one of the all time great tunes.

    I’d vote for Biden if he had actually played it.

  95. Roger

    Yep…you can hear the senility in his voice when he speaks……it is very disturbing. I just can’t believe that there is even a chance he will be elected. If he is I doubt whether he will be inaugurated.

    Both Kamala and Joe are now talking of a “Harris-Biden administration.”

    That probably has to do with Joe’s lack of appeal to young voters rather than his mental condition, which, frankly, is declining faster than Obama’s legacy.

    But there it is, the Dimocrats are now pinning their hopes on failed nominee Harris.

  96. Leigh Lowe

    Serious question.
    Obviously those clips have been over-dubbed, but what the fuck is Sleepy Joe doing?
    Is this the latest dodge?
    Wander up to the podium and press “play” on his Walkman?

  97. mh

    Donald J. Trump Retweeted

    thebradfordfile™
    @thebradfordfile
    ·
    6h
    President Trump had a historic event for world peace today, and the only thing the media reported on was who was wearing masks.

  98. Cassie of Sydney

    “That probably has to do with Joe’s lack of appeal to young voters rather than his mental condition, which, frankly, is declining faster than Obama’s legacy.”

    I don’t think that Comma-lah Harris is popular among young progressives…..it will be interesting to see if they bother voting.

  99. Bruce of Newcastle

    Very sad to see the Left doing this. ‘Whatever it takes’ in its full brutality.

    I actually hope Joe Biden loses for his own sake. He would be spared being a marionette, a slave, to his wife and to the Left. He could then enjoy at least a little peace before he’s called before God.

  100. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Fuck tha Police is one of the all time great tunes.’

    Sure is.

    I’ve been marking my goff [email protected] with ‘FTP’ since 2009 or so.

    Before it was cool.

  101. Delta A

    Why do meteorites always land in craters??

    Why do lost items always turn up in the last place you look?

  102. Delta A:

    The democrats and the Biden family should be ashamed for exploiting this poor man.

    Shame? The Collectivists don’t know what shame is!
    Exploit and discard, move onto the next object for similar treatment.

  103. mh

    Both Kamala and Joe are now talking of a “Harris-Biden administration.”

    What about ‘HarriDen’. Sounds almost right.

  104. Roger

    What about ‘HarriDen’. Sounds almost right.

    Well played, sir!

  105. Roger

    I don’t think that Comma-lah Harris is popular among young progressives…..it will be interesting to see if they bother voting.

    Kind of painted themselves into a corner, eh?

    Tulsi would have been a better choice.

    But that was never going to happen.

  106. Leigh Lowe

    Delta A

    #3587290, posted on September 16, 2020 at 6:28 pm

    Why do meteorites always land in craters??

    Was it WiP last week or so?
    Picture of a huge crater from the air with a building on the rim …

    Wow! Just missed the visitor centre!

  107. Tim Pool reports a leaked DHS email proves AntiFa is an organised terroristic group.

    RICO, PATRIOT Act, Mr Trump, do your best.

  108. vlad

    This is what actually happened and, as I said, sufficiently bizarre in itself, but just another day in the Biden campaign.

  109. custard

    I’m speechless!

    #theirABC just reported about the Grand Solar Minimum

    They denied we were in one….hard to predict. (apparently)

  110. Cassie of Sydney

    “Tulsi would have been a better choice.”

    Tulsi would have been an excellent choice.

  111. mh

    The Age

    Elective surgery to restart as 60,000 Victorians wait for operations
    Premier announced that if road map targets are hit in Melbourne, surgery capacity will move to 75 per cent on September 28 and scale up to 85 per cent in late October. Victoria has recorded 42 new coronavirus cases and eight more deaths.

    How many Victorians are dying while they wait for operations?

  112. notafan

    Dan faltering under pressure?

  113. Roger

    Tulsi would have been an excellent choice.

    I still think Trump should bring her into his cabinet if he wins.

    Veterans’ Affairs.

  114. Bruce of Newcastle

    Why do meteorites always land in craters??

    Fun fact: quite a lot of the stainless steel knives and forks you use came from one ginormous meteorite.

    A meteorite that slammed into Earth 1.85 billion years ago at the present site of Sudbury, Ontario …

    University of Toronto geology professor James Mungall, who has researched and written about the Sudbury meteorite for the scientific journal Nature, said the meteorite was probably traveling between 12 and 37 miles per second when it hit Earth with a force equal to several billion Hiroshima-sized atomic bombs. Temperatures soared above 10,000 degrees, 6,500 cubic miles of rock melted and the huge crater formed.

    “The object was probably between 10 and 20 kilometers in diameter, and some of us think it was more likely to have been a comet than an asteroid, but there is no definitive evidence,” Mungall said.

    Ancient Meteorite Debris Found In Minn. (2007)

    I’m fairly sure it must’ve been a nickel-iron bolide seeing that the Sudbury nickel mines have been some of the richest in the world. The idea that a comet just happened to land on a bit of crust especially rich in nickel seems unlikely.

    Here’s a wiki:
    Sudbury Basin

  115. custard

    News drop at 9.00am tomorrow morning

  116. kaysee

    RFK Jnr is a certifiable nut-job.
    If it wasn’t for Uncle Ted, he would be the worst ever Kennedy.
     
    Robert Kennedy Jnr is a complete nut case. He is anti all vaccines and he supports and spruiks the totally discredited Andrew Wakefield.

    So, LL and Cassie, you disagree with this statement?

    We will never allow liability-free, poorly tested products to be injected into ourselves or our children.

  117. vlad

    Someone asked Avi whether it’s good or bad news and he says “Good!”

    We could use some of that right now.

  118. Cassie of Sydney

    “So, LL and Cassie, you disagree with this statement?

    We will never allow liability-free, poorly tested products to be injected into ourselves or our children.”

    Kaysee……I am pro-vaccination as I’m sure more than a few people here are. The jury is out as to whether there will even be a COVID vaccination and I will make up my mind when it happens and when it is available. But I would steer clear of anything to do with Robert Kennedy Jnr…he is anti-science, he has a long history of fear mongering about all vaccinations…he is trying to stoke fear about vaccination.

  119. calli

    The Biden Dementia Dance is the moral consequence of a lifetime of manipulation and duplicity.

    Now it’s being acted out upon him by his handlers.

    That we get to see it should be a warning to us all. Sowing and reaping and all that.

  120. Roger

    Fun fact: quite a lot of the stainless steel knives and forks you use came from one ginormous meteorite.

    Mine are all from Sheffield.

    It says so on the blade.

  121. Roger

    The Biden Dementia Dance is the moral consequence of a lifetime of manipulation and duplicity.

    Now it’s being acted out upon him by his handlers.

    That we get to see it should be a warning to us all. Sowing and reaping and all that.

    Human beings have always been but a means to an end for the Left.

    We shouldn’t be surprised.

  122. calli

    Roger, I don’t think it’s just “the Left”. I’m a bit Treebeard-ish when it comes to moral failure and “sides”.

  123. dover_beach

    Haven’t read the books but if the movies, No Country for Old Men and The Road are faithful adaptions of each they must be masterpieces. The latter was haunting and captured in a way nothing else I’ve seen the self-sacrifice involved in fatherhood. This interpretation of No Country is I think very well done:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKyp9rGzZ20

  124. Bar Beach Swimmer

    Just on Credlin – Terry McCrann and Adam Creighton.
    It seems that the HC has deigned not to expedite whether The Constitution allows for the States to close the borders and whether Australians have free movement.

    The case will not be heard before November. I think that effectively means that there won’t be an answer until next year, when the Court returns.
    What’s going on here? The HC not interested in the bondage of Australians?

  125. kaysee

    What is transverse myelitis? The illness that halted AstraZeneca vaccine trial

    The illness results in inflammation of both sides of the spinal cord.

     
    German doctor: COVID-19 vaccine ‘could prove to be the biggest mistake’

    The risk is rising of a half-finished and ineffective product causing massive damage to health.
     
    Usually, the development of a new vaccine takes six to ten years. First the vaccine must be produced in cell cultures, in chicken eggs or by means of molecular biological processes. However, this production represents only a small part of the overall development. Particularly demanding is the testing, which takes place in a pre-clinical phase in the test tube and in animal experiments, followed by three clinical phases in test subjects. In the first clinical phase, the tolerability of the vaccine is usually tested on fewer than one hundred people. Questions are answered such as: Does redness or pain occur at the injection site? Does it lead to inflammation? Are there deaths?
     
    If the vaccine survives this phase, which lasts from weeks to months, the second phase will involve up to 1,000 test persons to determine whether the vaccination causes an immune reaction at all. If this is the case and the vaccine does not show any serious side-effects, the third and longest test phase follows. In most cases, 30,000 to 50,000 test persons are divided into two groups, one of whom receives the new vaccine, the other a placebo. Both groups are then usually exposed to an infection with the target pathogen for four to six years. After this period, it is investigated whether the vaccine group has fewer or at least milder infections than the placebo group. The long-term observation of many people also serves to detect rare, serious side-effects.

  126. dover_beach

    Oh, I’ll add that I never noticed the absence of a soundtrack and yet the mood of the scenes was palpable. As Goethe said of Beethoven: Only in limitation is the master manifest.

  127. Roger

    Roger, I don’t think it’s just “the Left”. I’m a bit Treebeard-ish when it comes to moral failure and “sides”.

    There’s the accidental, and there’s the essential, calli.

    Exploitation is accidental to most philosophies.

    With Leftism it’s of the essence.

  128. Helen

    Kaysee the condition comes from using monkey cells to m/f the vaccination. non monkey cell m/f does not carry the risk, in reports I read a few days ago.

  129. Crazyoldranga

    Okay, tin foil hats at the ready? Good. Apparently both Japan and USA have decided on rules of engagement regarding extraterrestrials. Yes, you read that correctly. Their militaries have been ordered not to engage any alien craft or soldiers.

    It all makes sense now. 👽

  130. Roger

    Oh, I’ll add that I never noticed the absence of a soundtrack and yet the mood of the scenes was palpable. As Goethe said of Beethoven: Only in limitation is the master manifest.

    Dover, I don’t think you understand the magisterial Reformation doctrine of sola scriptura aright.

    For another day.

  131. kaysee

    Helen, for a vaccine to be safe, the testing process is supposed to take 5 + years. There is a race to have a vaccine available. This could mean bypassing the required rigorous testing.

  132. Bruce of Newcastle

    The logical approach with the bat crud vaccine is to vaccinate the elderly over 70, particularly those with additional health problems. In their circumstances a bit of spinal inflammation is an acceptable risk, especially since old spines are pretty suss anyway (mine isn’t bad yet fortunately).

    The trouble is the pollies are hoping for the vaccine to be a magic amulet they can invoke to give them an excuse to overturn the stupid lockdown crap they’ve flooded us all with. So I can’t see them doing the logical thing.

    Humans can be awesomely dumb when they’re challenged by a danger which is beyond their control. I suppose we should be thankful that Dan hasn’t yet built a pyramid in Yarragrad and isn’t cutting hearts out of political opponents to placate the gods of Covid.

  133. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    At last. Recognition that we have had some antibody testing (on Bolt) but the bad news that a cheap ten minute antibody test is banned here. Hopeless public health policies. Glad to see some mention too of alternatives to hotel quarantine being mooted.

    Not impressed with the attack on Cassie upthread. Cassie is one of the most straight-shooting commenters here and always on target.

    My brother’s funeral is next Wednesday. Calli, thank you for the song you put up of two little children moving along on a pathway to the tune of ‘he ain’t heavy’. It moved me to gentle tears. He and I shared a lot when I was 8 and he was 6.

    He wasn’t heavy.

  134. mh

    The Oz: lets all look fvcking stupid again like 2016

    COMMENTARY

    Does Donald Trump have a re-election strategy?
    Donald Trump won’t win re-election without broadening his base of support, but that doesn’t seem to interest him.
    By JASON L. RILEY

  135. calli

    No, Lizzie. Neither is my brother.

    But he can be a real pain in the neck! 😃

  136. Dr Faustus

    What’s going on here? The HC not interested in the bondage of Australians?

    Hoping for a vaccine to take the edge off whichever way the decision bounces.

  137. Bar Beach Swimmer

    Egg,
    I read up-thread – it’s a beautiful beach for swimming…and for ice cream/coffee/cake 😁

  138. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Bruce of Newcastle at 6:28 pm:

    “Very sad to see the Left doing this. ‘Whatever it takes’ in its full brutality.

    I actually hope Joe Biden loses for his own sake. He would be spared being a marionette, a slave, to his wife and to the Left. He could then enjoy at least a little peace before he’s called before God.”

    Biden has been a willing, enthusiastic participant in the deceitful, corrupt, ugly world of US politics all his life. His evil manipulation of that system for extraordinary financial advantage is well known. His family has benefited greatly and his constituents have been unimportant victims of his failure to focus on their interests, which was his job.

    The system, and his family, is acting now in the very same callous manner he has acted out all his adult life. he deserves everything that he is getting – especially when one considers how he deals (with impunity) with the vulnerable young in public.

    I have no doubt Biden will be revealed in time as being as dissolute as the hideous Edward Kennedy.

  139. Bar Beach Swimmer

    Mick,
    over on the other thread (Nimbin)

  140. kaysee

    The trouble is the pollies are hoping for the vaccine to be a magic amulet they can invoke to give them an excuse to overturn the stupid lockdown crap they’ve flooded us all with.

    And therein lies the problem.
    Thanks to the media, a great part of the population believe that a vaccine (developed in one year) is the solution.

  141. Bar Beach Swimmer

    Mick Gold Coast QLD
    #3587363, posted on September 16, 2020 at 7:26 pm

    +lots

  142. Okay, tin foil hats at the ready? Good. Apparently both Japan and USA have decided on rules of engagement regarding extraterrestrials. Yes, you read that correctly. Their militaries have been ordered not to engage any alien craft or soldiers.

    That doesn’t bother me.

    Triffids and cat sized rats do.

  143. Bruce of Newcastle

    For Victoriastanis, if in doubt there’s always cake.
    Or something…drinkable, which the Phoenicians rather took to.

    Iron Age wine press yields clues to Phoenician building techniques (15 Sep)

    Tell el-Burak was bordered to the southwest and southeast by a 2.5-meter-wide terrace wall. “South of one of these walls we discovered a well-preserved wine press. It had been built on the slope of the hill,” the authors report.

    Phoenicians were great sailors, and all great sailors like a drink. But cake likely predates even Phoenecian booze merchants, if you take this pair as gospel:

  144. egg_

    We’ve already been singled out for tyrannical government Safety Love.

    Ahead of their time?

  145. Bar Beach Swimmer

    Hoping for a vaccine to take the edge off whichever way the decision bounces

    Am happy to be corrected, but I presume that, on their elevation to the HC, all Judges would have to take an oath. Something to do with upholding the law, The Constitution, serving the people of Australia, springs to mind. By stalling on this case, it would seem that they are not upholding their sacred duties.

  146. Makka

    And therein lies the problem.
    Thanks to the media, a great part of the population believe that a vaccine (developed in one year) is the solution.

    There’s another problem. Laws are being passed in Vic that will allow VikPol to detain people for being conspiracy theorists ie having a dissenting opinion , such as refusing to be vaccinated. If you resist or protest, there’s more charges against you.

  147. vlad

    Am happy to be corrected, but I presume that, on their elevation to the HC, all Judges would have to take an oath. Something to do with upholding the law, The Constitution, serving the people of Australia, springs to mind.

    Yes, they are required to by law. The text is:

    I, , do swear that I will bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law, that I will well and truly serve Her in the Office of Chief Justice [or Justice] of the High Court of Australia and that I will do right to all manner of people according to law without fear or favour, affection or ill-will. So help me God!

    or

    I, , do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that [as above, omitting the words “So help me God!”].

  148. egg_

    In Dan’s case:

    Safety Dance by Men without Hats Brains

  149. Megan

    My brother was 2 years younger than me as well, Lizzie. He died of a massive heart attack at 51. His excess heaviness was part of the problem along with his inability to give up the smokes.

    I miss him every day.

  150. Bar Beach Swimmer

    So, Vlad, what can be done? Write to the HC expressing concern that the case will not be heard before November?

  151. vlad

    So, Vlad, what can be done? Write to the HC expressing concern that the case will not be heard before November?

    You could do that. It wouldn’t achieve anything, but you could still do it.

  152. Joanna

    Hillary Clinton has tweeted “we deserve a president who cares whether his fellow Americans live or die”. Talk about leaving yourself so open to be utterly smashed. The vast majority of replies are reminding her of Benghazi. That tragedy alone made her unsuitable for the presidency.

  153. 132andBush

    Wife just received this via FB.
    Brilliant!

  154. stackja

    THE CORONAVIRUS AND MINORITY YOUTHS (NOT A PARODY)
    The Washington Post reports on statistics released today that show “the coronavirus is killing Hispanic, Black and American Indian children at much higher numbers than their White peers.” According to the stats, more than 75 percent of children killed by the virus are Hispanic, Black and American Indian children. Yet, these groups represent only 41 percent of the U.S. population [note: in that age category].

    What about genetics? The CDC apparently isn’t citing it as a possible explanation, either. However, John Williams, chief of pediatric infectious diseases at UPMC Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh, says the racial gap in fatalities suggests genetic or biologic factors could be at play. He notes that some diseases have been shown to affect certain races more severely than others.

    For example, before a vaccine was developed, pneumococcal meningitis disproportionately affected Black children even after accounting for social determinants. Similarly, Haemophilus influenzae type b (also known as Hib) was known disproportionately to affect Native Americans.

    I don’t think we know whether or to what degree genetics and underlying health conditions like obesity are playing a role in the racial disparity at issue. Maybe we should find out before we “mobilize” in the hope of saving up to 31 young lives during a period of half a year.

  155. rickw

    The risk is rising of a half-finished and ineffective product causing massive damage to health.

    Well duh!

  156. Leigh Lowe

    So, LL and Cassie, you disagree with this statement?

    We will never allow liability-free, poorly tested products to be injected into ourselves or our children.

    Yes, Kaysee, but you need to get to what RFK Jnr really means by testing and liability.
    Simple question.
    Which commonly used vaccines does he support?
    Like all the Kennedy clan, happy to ride on the backs of others.
    Usually it is just financial carpet-bagging, but in this case it is riding on the coat-tails of herd immunity.
    And also a horrid human being.
    The circumstances around the suicide of his previous wife are sickening.

  157. Tel

    The Biden Dementia Dance is the moral consequence of a lifetime of manipulation and duplicity.

    Now it’s being acted out upon him by his handlers.

    The merciful thing is that he won’t remember what he’s going through.

    Poor old corrupt bastard.

  158. egg_

    The risk is rising of a half-finished and ineffective product causing massive damage to health.

    Sounds like something cobbled together by a bunch of Socialists.

  159. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    Hi-Alan Jones has reported that a contributor here, Sanjeev Sabhlock, has resigned from his position as a government economist in Disasterstan has he can’t in all conscience continue in their employ due to their unrelenting stupidity, pig-headedness and staggering destructive incompetence.

  160. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    “as he can’t …”

  161. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Wife just received this via FB.
    Brilliant!

    Pay that one – brilliant, indeed!

  162. egg_

    And also a horrid human being.
    The circumstances around the suicide of his previous wife are sickening.

    To quote Lady Bracknell: To lose one wife might be careless..

  163. Knuckle Dragger

    Night 2. School music event, so naturally it’s FB scrolling and the odd look in.

    ABC News post on this new $5K blister for trying to escape from Melbourne. 400 odd comments. About 90% for it.

    Crikey.

    There’s no shortage of opposition to this, as evidenced here but geez there’s an awful lot or regional/rural Vics completely in favour of this latest lunacy.

    Staggering.

  164. feelthebern

    Polio vaccine has been in the works since the 1940’s.
    Very safe.
    Corona virus vaccine been in the works – realistically – since Feb.
    Not safe.

  165. Cassie of Sydney

    Good…no doubt Miranda Devine’s article about the double standards of allowing a mosque gathering yet barring a church gathering helped.

    “St Mary’s Cathedral, Sydney, to host 300 at priest ordination

    Hundreds of people will be allowed to attend the ordination of four priests at St Mary’s Cathedral on Saturday, after NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard granted a temporary exemption from coronavirus restrictions.

    Hundreds of people will be allowed to attend the ordination of four priests at Sydney’s St Mary’s Cathedral on Saturday, after NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard gran­ted a temporary exemption from coronavirus restrictions.

    The move came after NSW Health was accused of “double standards” for granting Auburn Gallipoli Mosque a special exemption to allow 400 worshippers to attend Friday Eid al-Adha prayers six weeks ago while twice rejecting requests from St Mary’s Cathedral to relax the 100-person cap.

    In an email earlier this month, NSW Health claimed that “a specific exemption for St Mary’s would create a precedent that could lead to widespread relaxation of the gathering rule”.

    NSW Health said the exemp­tions were only considered under “exceptional circumstances” and the mosque had developed a comprehensive COVID-19 safety plan.

    Previous applications from the mosque, similar to one of the requests made by St Mary’s Cathedral, had also been rejected, according to NSW Health.

    “In light of the importance of the priests’ ordination at St Mary’s Cathedral on Saturday, the NSW Minister for Health has granted an exemption to the Public Health Order for the day of the ordination,” a NSW Health spokesman said.

    “St Mary’s Cathedral has ­developed a comprehensive COVID-19 safety plan for the ordination that comprehensively addresses the wellbeing of participants, their physical distancing, hygiene and cleaning, and record keeping.

    “An extensive list of ­requirements is in place to ­ensure the maximum number of people in the congregation does not exceed 300 and ­people do not gather before and after the ceremony.”

    Strict rules will be enforced throughout the three-hour service, with the cathedral ensuring the one person per four square metre rule is complied with and that attendees sign in and socially distance.

    A spokesman for the Catholic Archdiocese of Sydney said ll attendees would be ­required to wear a face mask, including clergy.

    The mosque’s government relations adviser Enver Yasar said they had to “demonstrate” extensively how they were going to adhere to the COVID safe standards.

    Attendees were spread out across “four zones” including two levels of the mosque, an adjoining function hall and carpark.

    “It would surprise me if NSW Health were not consistent in the way they provide ­exemptions. It is a difficult time for people of faith, and we are sympathetic to their (the church’s) situation,” he said.

  166. feelthebern

    Went to a pub this evening.
    To gain access, I had to QR read at entry.
    The pub says they hold that data for 30 days.
    Who knows.
    Schooners 10 bucks a pop.
    What a hellscape Sydney has become.

  167. feelthebern

    Hard to say no to St Mary’s when they’ve just said footy stadiums can be 50% capacity for the finals.

  168. Infidel Tiger

    So is an Australian passport now null and void?

    How is it possible that Australians are being refused entry to their own country.

    We are entering uncharted territory.

  169. BrettW

    From The Oz. We know she is lying as it is all Captain Cook’s fault.

    Former deputy chief health officer Annaliese van Diemen says she “don’t believe any one individual” is responsible for the failures of the hotel quarantine program that unleashed Victoria’s coronavirus second wave, inquiry hears.

    Dr van Diemen, who signed the hotel quarantine detention orders, said the second wave was the result of a “large number of small actions”.

    “I don’t believe any one individual is responsible for what occurred,” she said.

  170. Nick

    Schooners 10 bucks a pop.

    I know. Lol

  171. How is it possible that Australians are being refused entry to their own country.

    This is just bizarre.

    It is almost hilarious how silly we’ve become, as part of a global effort – to make Donald Trump look bad.

  172. Frank

    Dr Dalrymple brings it again.

    Under Mr. Blair, for example, £12 billion was spent in an alleged attempt to unify the medical records of every person in the country, so that, wherever he happened to be, his medical records were available to the doctor who was treating him. The attempt failed, except in the sense that, predictably, it made many people or companies very rich. Civil servants in Britain are now best thought of as pre-consultants to enterprises in search of lucrative contracts, that serve the country in the way a tapeworm serves its host.

  173. dover_beach

    Alan Jones really loves Cat Mcgregor doesn’t he.

  174. dover_beach

    Roger, let’s discuss it in Heaven. You can tell me I was right for all the wrong reasons and I can explain to you that you were wrong for all the right reasons.

  175. kaysee

    The Billionaire Who Wanted To Die Broke . . . Is Now Officially Broke

    It took decades, but Chuck Feeney, the former billionaire cofounder of retail giant Duty Free Shoppers has finally given all his money away to charity. He has nothing left now—and he couldn’t be happier.
     
    Over the last four decades, Feeney has donated more than $8 billion to charities, universities and foundations worldwide through his foundation, the Atlantic Philanthropies. When I first met him in 2012, he estimated he had set aside about $2 million for his and his wife’s retirement. In other words, he’s given away 375,000% more money than his current net worth. And he gave it away anonymously. While many wealthy philanthropists enlist an army of publicists to trumpet their donations, Feeney went to great lengths to keep his gifts secret.

  176. cohenite

    I hope biden wins and becomes the first POTUS who has to wear adult nappies. It will be of immense interest as to how long he is allowed to wander naked, hairy legs akimbo, in the rose garden.

  177. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    Schooners 10 bucks a pop.

    Not where certain Sydney Cats drink on a Friday night. $5.

  178. MatrixTransform

    said the second wave was the result of a “large number of small actions”.

    she’s overdosed on Foucault

    happens

  179. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    It will be of immense interest as to how long he is allowed to wander naked, hairy legs akimbo, in the rose garden.

    Very briefly, just prior to a “mysterious fatal accident”.

  180. Rex Anger

    There’s no shortage of opposition to this, as evidenced here but geez there’s an awful lot or regional/rural Vics completely in favour of this latest lunacy.

    Staggering.

    Or an element of “Keep your stupidity, your pathogens and your bloody fines to yourselves, city slickers!”

    If I were in Swan Hill, Seymour or Benalla, I certainly would not want the spectres of Spring Street crashing over my town and re-imposing Maximum LockDan. Not after just getting some privileges re-instated.

    Collective punishment and classic abuse responses, KD?

  181. cohenite

    In other completely unsurprising news, the chunk virus was made deliberately by the chunks and deliberately released according to Dr Li-Meng Yan a top former chunk virologist who has defected and must have a huge bulls-eye on her back:

    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/chinese-defector-virologist-dr-limeng-yan-publishes-report-claiming-covid19-was-made-in-a-lab/news-story/36decb0c2bca253b696dec0cb665c970

  182. kaysee

    LL,
    Governments, organisations and big pharma have formed a very strong collective to dictate to mere mortals how they should live their lives. And while our freedoms are taken away from us, we will debate about the motives of anyone protesting against the Covid vaccine.
     
    Other vaccines in use for many years have gone through the necessary testing processes. If anyone is against those vaccines, one can go to the scientific data to discuss that. My concern is the way in which this vaccine is being developed. There are too many unknowns. Do we have the guarantee that any Covid vaccine will truly not be mandatory? Those who choose not to have it, will not be penalised in any way?

  183. Went to a pub this evening.
    To gain access, I had to QR read at entry.
    The pub says they hold that data for 30 days.
    Who knows.
    Schooners 10 bucks a pop.
    What a hellscape Sydney has become.

    We need a firm date when this ends.

    This will not be permanent you jug eared, private school educated communist turds.

    Dan: No friends.
    Beryl: Too ugly to get a date.

    I’m seeing pattern here, we’re through the looking glass here people!

    So why TF aren’t normies voting these shit brained imbeciles out of office?

  184. MatrixTransform

    if Maximum Dan or the press start talking about some 40-something bloke the succumbed to Covid today.
    it’s bull shit
    just putting it down on the page before/in-case they do.
    not saying anymore about that right now

  185. vlad

    I just now uninstalled MS OneDrive. I wish I’d known sooner that it was there; I’d have uninstalled it on day one.

  186. rickw

    Wife just received this via FB.
    Brilliant!

    +100

  187. Helen

    Rex

    If I were in Swan Hill, Seymour or Benalla, I certainly would not want the spectres of Spring Street crashing over my town and re-imposing Maximum LockDan

    Yep, keep your pox!

  188. MatrixTransform

    why TF aren’t normies voting these shit brained imbeciles out of office?

    apparently, normie is a fascist

  189. Eyrie

    Okay, tin foil hats at the ready? Good. Apparently both Japan and USA have decided on rules of engagement regarding extraterrestrials. Yes, you read that correctly. Their militaries have been ordered not to engage any alien craft or soldiers.

    I sincerely hope then that the aliens aren’t KZIN.

    The late Hal Colebatch wrote a nice set of stories for the Man-Kzin Wars series.

  190. Rex Anger

    @ Helen-

    Yep, keep your pox!

    Indeed. Happy to watch from Sandgroperstan, and figure out how to smuggle Puffing Billy out, rivet by rivet…

  191. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Bar Beach Swimmer at 7:28 pm:

    “Mick,
    over on the other thread (Nimbin)”

    Saw that young lady, yes, and responded. 😁

  192. Eyrie

    Australians stuck O/S. OK . Fly to Indonesia, buy boat, sail to Australia. When intercepted by Navy hold up Aussie passports.

  193. vlad

    Scientific American has endorsed Joe Biden; the first time in its 175 year history it has endorsed a presidential candidate.

    What a candidate to break that tradition with!

  194. Leigh Lowe

    feelthebern

    #3587425, posted on September 16, 2020 at 8:17 pm

    Went to a pub this evening.
    To gain access, I had to QR read at entry.
    The pub says they hold that data for 30 days.
    Who knows.
    Schooners 10 bucks a pop.
    What a hellscape Sydney has become

    What’s a pub?
    What’s a schooner?

  195. Leigh Lowe

    dover_beach

    #3587438, posted on September 16, 2020 at 8:23 pm

    Alan Jones really loves Cat Mcgregor doesn’t he.

    Effusive overcompensation.

  196. mh

    Dan: No friends.
    Beryl: Too ugly to get a date.

    I’m seeing pattern here, we’re through the looking glass here people!

    So why TF aren’t normies voting these shit brained imbeciles out of office?

    Deb Frecklington. Married with 3 kids.

  197. notafan

    Fin review article by Sanjeev Sabhlok if not already shared is ‘why I quit rather than be silenced: Vic Treasury insider

  198. kaysee

    132andBush
    #3587396, posted on September 16, 2020 at 7:56 pm

    Locked Down Matilda. Good one.
    Protest anthem.

  199. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Legalise Sedition at 8:33 pm:

    ” …

    We need a firm date when this ends.

    This will not be permanent you jug eared, private school educated communist turds.

    Dan: No friends.
    Beryl: Too ugly to get a date.

    So why TF aren’t normies voting these shit brained imbeciles out of office?”

    Sometimes, Dot old mate, you come up with the most thoughtful, persuasive reasons to vote this way or that! 😜

  200. Bruce of Newcastle

    I sincerely hope then that the aliens aren’t KZIN.

    More likely Darhel.
    Darhel are complete bastards.
    Passive aggressive in the worst way.

  201. Bar Beach Swimmer

    Mick,
    I first went to Byron Bay with my parents on holidays – aged 10. Dad, a keen blackfish fisherman, promptly moved us the following year to Ballina where the swimming and fishing were better.

    There was really nothing at Byron in those days – we stayed in a holiday flat (there were two of them – duplex-like) around the corner from the main street opposite the beach, and that’s all I can remember of the place. I was too young to go to the pub with Dad and my grandfather, who used to go with us on holidays.

    Dad had a friend who’d been a Benz dealer from Hay who retired and then bought a house at Byron – about the same time we first went up that way – but sold it because the beach was fast encroaching his house.

    Ballina became our annual holiday destination – for years and years and years. Afterwards, the other half and I continued the yearly de-camp. Only in the last few years have we given up going there – too many sharks because of too many greenies.

    (I just watched 132andBush’s video – Australia, the lives we had, now fast going).

  202. William the Conjuror

    On 7.30 tonight. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the perennial sourpuss, didn’t like her interview with Leigh Sales.

  203. Watching some show on Roger Rogerson. Was he ever jailed during his policing tenure?

  204. MatrixTransform

    her interview with Leigh Sales

    ambushed
    now she knows who the ABC IS

  205. Bruce of Newcastle

    Scientific American has endorsed Joe Biden; the first time in its 175 year history it has endorsed a presidential candidate.

    Hehe!

    Scientific American Would Like to Remind You It’s Not “Scientific” or “American” (15 Sep)

    Yet another subscription you might want to cancel if you’re still subscribing to dead tree lefty publications that have little to do with their original histories or names.

    If you recall Popular Mechanics publishing a guide on how to topple statues, you probably already know that the old popular science publications are little more than warehouses of lefty rants written by cultural studies bloggers. That’s also been the case with Scientific American, which, like the Holy Roman Empire, is neither Scientific nor American, but is, like much of American publishing, a subsidiary of a giant billion dollar German corporation.

    I love that they’re now Germans. Dropped my subscription somewhere in the nineties, they had gotten so bad even then. Which is a shame as they’d been an icon for a long time. Gramsci, like rust, never sleeps.

  206. mh

    Dot, did you view the pinned tweet?

  207. Bruce of Newcastle

    Sarah Huckabee Sanders … didn’t like her interview with Leigh Sales.

    Well duh, stop the presses!
    Sales is somewhat to the left of Lenin.
    Of course she’d dislike Sanders.
    Quite mutual I suspect.

  208. Rafe Champion

    A brilliant short Prager video by Mills on the fallacies of RE. Only five minutes, a miracle of compression with vivid pictures to make the points clear.

  209. vlad

    Dropped my subscription somewhere in the nineties, they had gotten so bad even then. Which is a shame as they’d been an icon for a long time.

    I haven’t seen a copy in 20 years.

  210. Well mh they’ve kept it up for 3.5 years so they’re committed to the lie.

  211. Rex Anger

    @ LS-

    They allow that?!

    I thought leftists were a pack of libertine prudes, but those Blue Checkmark people…Damn!

    I am off to find myself something to try and unsee all that… whatever-the-hell-that-was. With some real porn. 😉

  212. kaysee

    Fin review article by Sanjeev Sabhlok if not already shared is ‘why I quit rather than be silenced: Vic Treasury insider

    It is a subscriber article. Here it is for anyone interested.
     
    Why I quit rather than be silenced: Vic Treasury insider
    Sanjeev Sabhlok
     
    Last week I quit my job as an economist in the Victorian Department of Finance and Treasury so that I would be free to speak out against the state’s management of the COVID-19 infection.
     
    I had made a number of criticisms of the state government on social media. The head of human relations at Treasury asked me to remove them. I considered deleting the few direct criticisms, but they wanted all indirect criticism removed too. I resigned on the same day, the only honourable course for a free citizen of Australia. I never dreamed I would see some of the tactics being used to defend the state’s health.
     
    The pandemic policies being pursued in Australia – particularly in Victoria – are the most heavy-handed possible, a sledgehammer to kill a swarm of flies. These policies are having hugely adverse economic, social and health effects, with the poorer sections of the community that don’t have the ability to work from home suffering the most.
     
    Australia is signalling to the world that it is closed for business and doesn’t care for human freedoms. This will dampen business investment but also impact future skilled migration, the education industry and tourism.
     
    The whole thing hinges on the scare created by politicians and health professionals. For instance, Victoria’s Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton claims this is the “greatest public health challenge since the Spanish flu”.
     
    But this is no Spanish flu – we can verify that easily.
     
    The Spanish flu killed at least 50 million people worldwide in 1918 when the global population was 1.8 billion. Proportionately, to be as lethal as Spanish flu, a virus would have to kill at least 210 million people today. Instead, only around 0.9 million have died so far (compare this also with the 60 million who ordinarily die each year).
     
    What about a second wave? There has never been a second wave hundreds of times bigger than the first. We can be reasonably certain that while this virus may create further ripples, its ultimate magnitude will end up in the range of the 1957 Asian flu.
    The need for good policy process does not disappear just because we face a public health crisis.
     
    But even if the pandemic had been as big as the Spanish flu, lockdowns could never have been justified. There are strong scientific arguments against lockdowns too.
     
    So what should the government have done? The data were clear from February itself that the elderly are many times more vulnerable to a serious outcome than the young. It was necessary, therefore, to work out a targeted age-based strategy and start aggressively protecting and isolating the elderly, even as the rest of the population was advised on relevant precautions. But that wasn’t done.
     
    The need for good policy process does not disappear just because we face a public health crisis. In fact, it gets even more urgent.
     
    The Victorian Guide to Regulation notes that “It is not possible for governments to provide a completely ‘risk free’ society, or to prevent every possible event that might cause harm”. Further: “The direct and indirect costs imposed by regulatory approaches may not be … immediately obvious. Risk regulation that is poorly targeted or costly will divert resources from other priorities.”
     
    Governments back in February needed to commission a cost-benefit analysis of alternative policy options that took into account different scenarios (such as with and without a vaccine). Thereafter, the best option had to be picked given the uncertainty, but consistent also with the need to intrude minimally into human freedoms. This cost-benefit analysis and policies needed then to be updated as new information emerged (such as the fact that epidemiological models have badly exaggerated the risk).
     
    Governments should have also realised at the outset that they are hostage to chronic groupthink and actively sought alternative advice. I attempted repeatedly to raise my voice within my public sector role, but my attempts were rebuffed. The bureaucracy has clamped down on frank and fearless, impartial advice, in a misplaced determination to support whatever the government decides, (instead of performing its taxpayer-funded duty of providing forthright analysis of alternatives).
     
    While there is scientific argument against lockdowns, there are divergent views on matters such as the effectiveness of masks. I am a mask fanatic but there was never any reason to mandate these debatable requirements. Voluntary, performance-based rules would allow the private sector to innovate, leaving people with the power of agency, to determine their own fate – thereby minimising economic harm, and harm to mental health and general well-being.
     
    So what happens now? Billions of dollars in income and wealth have been wiped out in the name of a virus that is no worse than the Asian flu and which can (even now) be managed by isolating the elderly and taking a range of voluntary, innovative measures. All the border closures, all the lockdowns, all the curfews in Melbourne will not eradicate the virus from planet Earth.
     
    The problem for politicians now is to reverse course without losing their job. I don’t know how they plan to do it but if they don’t do it sooner rather than later the damage to Australia’s future would have become so great it would undo the good work of decades of reform.

  213. Leigh Lowe

    Black Ball

    #3587490, posted on September 16, 2020 at 8:59 pm

    Watching some show on Roger Rogerson. Was he ever jailed during his policing tenure?

    Look.
    Roger just got “caught up in situations”.

  214. I too was a little shocked Rex, it’s heresy and Progress.

    After reviewing the data, it may not be a troll after all.

  215. Leigh Lowe

    Thanks Kaysee.
    No sub and I only saw a bit of it on AJ.

  216. rickw

    Australians stuck O/S. OK . Fly to Indonesia, buy boat, sail to Australia. When intercepted by Navy hold up Aussie passports.

    Why the fuck would you come back? More like hire boat, sail to Indonesia, New Caledonia, Fiji, PNG etc.

  217. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Joanna at 7:51 pm:

    “Hillary Clinton has tweeted “we deserve a president who cares whether his fellow Americans live or die”. Talk about leaving yourself so open to be utterly smashed. The vast majority of replies are reminding her of Benghazi. That tragedy alone made her unsuitable for the presidency.”

    I followed that closely Joanna, former servicemen Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty sacrificed their lives attempting to protect US Ambassador Stevens, who had loyally served Clinton.

    She knew the compound attack was taking place and could have ordered substantial military intervention to save them, but did not. I saw their parents recount that she would not look them in the eye when she met them.

    When questioned at one of those useless parliamentary type hearings into their deaths afterwards, the witch retorted “What does it matter?”

    She should have been immediately dragged out into the street and summarily shot. What she did was unforgivable.

  218. notafan

    Thanks Kaysee
    Should be a teensy bit embarrassing

  219. feelthebern

    I won’t say what pub it was, but it was one of Sydney’s roof top establishments.
    Heaving.
    Great couple of hours drinking Stone & Wood and having a few laughs.
    Funny stuff.
    No standing allowed.
    But groups of people bunched around tables, sitting is apparently COVID safe.
    It’s a scam people !

  220. dover_beach

    Good article.

    We need to track down the chain of command that led to this public policy failure which can’t be limited to the Victorian government and public service given all the other public services and governments sang from the same song sheet until August.

  221. Top Ender

    Former deputy chief health officer Annaliese van Diemen says she “don’t believe any one individual” is responsible for the failures of the hotel quarantine program that unleashed Victoria’s coronavirus second wave

    Check the mirror tomorrow morning.

    There that person will be!

  222. A few too many Leigh Lowe. I had heard of the name but ‘caught up in situations’ is an understatement!

  223. twostix

    The whole “Cate McGregor” thing – where he’s paraded around by Australia’s tame old man conservative figures like a trophy bull, is what killed that whole thing stone cold dead five years ago.

  224. notafan

    Groupthink in a Dan Andrews government; who’d have thunk it.

    As someone I know said ‘if D and I applies only to appearance not thought, this is what you get ‘

    And it’s what Dan recruits for.

  225. Leigh Lowe

    One minor outfall of the Maskist state.
    My elderly neighbour was lamenting that her deafness had got worse.
    I asked if the problem might be muffled speech through masks and that she might have underestimated how reliant she was on lip-reading.
    She seemed happy with that.
    Pro-bono audiology.

  226. feelthebern
    #3587526, posted on September 16, 2020 at 9:34 pm

    I won’t say what pub it was, but it was one of Sydney’s roof top establishments.
    Heaving.
    Great couple of hours drinking Stone & Wood and having a few laughs.
    Funny stuff.
    No standing allowed.
    But groups of people bunched around tables, sitting is apparently COVID safe.
    It’s a scam people !

    I got chipped at dinner two weeks ago by some “COVID marshall” fuckwit at a pub for standing and talking.

    So I went back to me table and got even closer to other confederates and kept on talking.

  227. MatrixTransform

    sitting is apparently COVID safe.

    wot, no stand up protests ?

  228. notafan

    The Irish government are asking over 70s to stay home as much as possible.

    Better infection control this year has reduced aged care deaths in Australia.

    Brett Sutton mumbles something about if we get down to ten cases and eight of them are in aged care something something different.

    Meanwhile Dan sticks his fingers in his ears and says I can’t hear you and the #IStandWithDanAndrews losers bow and scrap to the one man who is keeping them alive.

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