Liar Dan and the fine art of casuistry

This is the front page of the Oz: Andrews letters: PM’s offers met by silence. And then see precisely what Silent Dan says:

Revelations of the Prime Minister’s offers of help to Mr And­rews came as the Premier said on Wednesday that he stood by his statement to a state parliamentary committee hearing last month that it was “fundamentally incorrect to assert that there was hundreds of ADF staff on offer and somehow someone said no”.

Get it. No one said no. What a disgusting weasel. Responsible for hundreds of deaths and he wants to start defending himself by parsing the meaning of words. Will accept no responsibility for the catastrophe he has overseen and largely caused by his incompetence.

As for casuistry, perhaps he learned it when studying the classics, one of the fine arts of dishonest politics:

the use of clever but unsound reasoning, especially in relation to moral questions; sophistry.
“the minister is engaging in nothing more or less than casuistry”

I wonder if he was crossing his fingers when he said what he said. I also notice that on the new citizenship test there is this question:

Should people’s freedom of speech and freedom of expression be respected in Australia?

I wonder how Dan would go with that.

LET ME ALSO ADD THIS: Despite 10,000 new cases a day, the French are embracing life – not imposing new rules.

The cafes of Paris are packed

No one is dying from the Covid any longer. The contrast between Melbourne and Paris is incredible. This is Melbourne, and note the masks in both photos.

Melburnians have been put back under Stage 3 restrictions, but what would Stage 4 look like?

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28 Responses to Liar Dan and the fine art of casuistry

  1. John A

    This is my latest missive to the local member:

    Dear XXXX,
    What has happened to this once-great State and the concept of a social contract between the government, the Police and the governed?
    I refer to this ABC report: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-16/coronavirus-police-patrol-regional-victoria-borders-5000-fine/12669434 and an analysis here: (originally posted at https://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/09/16/police-threaten-melbourne-residents-news-at-11/#comment-3587574:

    1. VicPol cannot create offences. Nugent’s quote (if correct) is a very sloppy way of describing what has just happened with the new offence.

    2. The new offence was created today (16 September) not by VicPol but by the Governor in Council (the Governor of Victoria acting on the formal advice of the Ministers). The Minister for Health, Jenny Mikakos, is named as the responsible minister (!) in the regulation.

    3, The regulation creating the offence is the Public Health and Wellbeing Amendment (Further Infringements) Regulations 2020, under power conferred by section 232 of the Public Health and Wellbeing Act 2008.

    4. The name of the new offence is, “An offence against section 203(1) of the Act constituted by a contravention of directions given under section 200(1) of the Act by refusing or failing to comply with a requirement in relation to leaving a restricted area in Victoria without a reasonable excuse or other valid reason or excuse”.

    5. As has been widely reported, the penalty prescribed for the offence is stated to be 30 penalty units, equivalent to $4,956.60.

    Every new measure seems to be based only on one idea – that the people of Victoria are such terrible offenders that they need to be restrained with great force and that fines need to be so heavy that they cause financial ruin.
    Yet the actions now defined as offences are things which a few months ago were being encouraged by Tourism Victoria.
    The government and especially the Premier seem to have a low and contemptuous view of the people because the coronavirus is apparently so potent. Yet, the evidence from other jurisdictions (around Australia and around the world) is that it is waning, just like other flu viruses in previous years. 
    Meanwhile the government’s actions and posture have resulted in Victoria Police enforcing draconian laws in such a way that the people no longer trust them to be protectors of the populace but rather, its enemies. They are perceived to no longer “Uphold the Right” but only to do the distorted bidding of the Premier.
    This raises the spectre of serious reactions similar to Ned Kelly and Peter Lalor (refer this article for more detail: https://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/09/17/mark-hornshaw-zac-gorman-australias-violent-enforcement-of-lockdowns-sparks-memories-of-the-eureka-rebellion/), and I am sure that when this government is consigned to the dustbin of history, none of the members will want to be remembered in that way.
    For the good of this State, I urge you and your fellow backbenchers to stop this, depose the Premier and remove the “Gang of Eight.” Then repeal all these crazy regulations and restore some sanity to life in Victoria.


    Regards

  2. exsteelworker

    Dan Andrews and his whole government should be charged with workplace manslaughter. He and his ministers caused 100s of deaths because of their use of union affiliated security instead of the offered ADF, if this was a private CEO they’d be in jail NOW. Why are public servants protected species!

  3. vlad

    Why doesn’t he wear a mask in his press conferences? The journalists talking to him have to, but he answers them without a mask.

    It almost looks like one rule for him and other rules for you, like in a tinpot banana republic.

    Almost, yeah.

  4. Mullumhillbilly

    Should people’s freedom of speech and freedom of expression be respected in Australia?

    If that’s true, I should be able to answer ‘no’

  5. Kingsley

    Right up the there with Clinton’s “I did not have sexual relations with that woman “ and whether oral sex constitutes sexual relations or not.

  6. mem

    I’ll swear that every time he lies his ears grow bigger. Anyone else notice this?

  7. Delta

    Should people’s freedom of speech and freedom of expression be respected in Australia?

    I wonder how Dan would go with that?

    Well the answer to that question has to be a Lay Down Misère.

    Next thing he’ll be up to no doubt will be a border fence – but where will the border be and how many of then will be needed in Dan’s world?

  8. min

    His eyes grow bigger as he stares you down however what he did was to ignore all offers of help and said early in the piece “ Noone will tell me what to do ( maybe correct wordage was order) I manage this State “ Perhaps someone can find this on past presser.

  9. cuckoo

    Why doesn’t he wear a mask in his press conferences?

    Don’t worry. Every single night, as they cover the presser, Nein news tops and tails the segment with footage of Andrews entering the building with his mask on, then leaving and resuming his mask. Just for anyone who dares to ask such a question.

  10. MatrixTransform

    both Maximum Leader and Van Diemen …

    they seem to have taken a strategic view from Foucault’s views on power

    The first precaution relates to Foucault’s argument that the analysis of power should not be concerned with power in its central location, for example the sovereign, but rather in its extremities where power overcomes the rules of right. Foucault, rather than questioning who has the right to wield power, questions how power is embodied in the institutions at a local and regional level. Thus, Foucault argues that power should no longer be viewed as a force exercised from above based on universal right but rather we should concern ourselves with where the exercise of power becomes less and less juridical; where power becomes “capillary” (Foucault, 2003:94).

  11. cuckoo

    So yesterday, confronted with the emails that show he was lying, Andrews continues to maintain his statements were ‘accurate’. I wish one of these tools would give him 1/100th of the monstering that Leigh Sales or Emma Alberici routinely hand out to any conservative politician.

  12. John64

    confronted with the emails that show he was lying, Andrews continues to maintain his statements were ‘accurate’

    I have been wondering for some days about what sort of logic pretzel Chairman Dan would come up with for the judicial enquiry to get out of this one and I think Kates might have nailed it.

  13. mem

    I have dedicated this little poem to Dan the Dictator.

    The Liar.

    Lies, lies, alibis,
    For past acts and future facts,
    Aberrations and false revelations,
    That conceal the part tween fact and fiction,
    His addiction to dreams and themes,
    That absolve his conscience
    Aim to destroy the essence of all that is and was and shall be,
    But will commit he and his fellow travelers
    To lasting political purgatory.

  14. Robbo

    Andrews is a disgusting and disgraceful liar and those people in Victoria who proclaim that he is doing a great job dealing with the Chinese virus are he allowed to spread are moronic zealots who refuse to face the facts. This putrid Premier has failed so badly that he has caused the premature deaths of many hundreds of people, he has then closed down Victoria in a lockdown that is tighter than any other country in the world and in doing so has destroyed countless hundreds of businesses. The economy of Victoria is ruined due to his actions. He has turned the Victoria Police into a politically controlled army of goons who now happily trundle around searching for soft targets to harass and arrest. Elderly women and pregnant women are their preferred targets because they will rarely resist unlike large gatherings who make it clear that any strong arm tactics by the coppers will be resisted and initiate property damage, looting and bashings. They are left alone by our wimpy law enforcers.. Once upon a time, not all that long ago, Victorians depended on their police force to protect them from thuggery and other violence. Now we are searching for a group to protect us from the police. Daniel Andrews has nothing to be proud of as he continues to turn Victoria into a shambles from which it might never recover. His government does not deserve respect or obedience and he will go down in history as the worst Premier this State has ever had. He is an incompetent, lying and despicable individual.

  15. Delta

    John 64… what sort of logic pretzel Chairman Dan would come up with?

    Take you pick from this smorgasboard:

    The 20 traits of a psychopath
    The Hare Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R) is composed of 20 salient traits that a psychopath may have:
    1. Pathological lying
    2. Glib and superficial charm
    3. Grandiose sense of self
    4. Need for stimulation
    5. Cunning and manipulative
    6. Lack of remorse or guilt
    7. Shallow emotional response
    8. Callousness and lack of empathy
    9. Parasitic lifestyle
    10. Poor behavioural controls
    11. Sexual promiscuity
    12. Early behaviour problems
    13. Lack of realistic long-term goals
    14. Impulsivity
    15. Irresponsibility
    16. Failure to accept responsibility
    17. Many short-term marital relationships
    18. Juvenile delinquency
    19. Revocation of conditional release
    20. Criminal versatility

    The Hare Psychopathy Checklist categories four major traits. These traits are Interpersonal, Emotional, Lifestyle, and Antisocial. Here are the discussions of each trait.

    1. Interpersonal Traits
    Pathological lying is one of the most salient characteristics of psychopaths. They use lies to cover up their true purpose. By using the charm that they have, psychopaths win over their target victim.

    Their high self-worth makes them crave for more power. As a result, they want to maintain the authority and power they have.

    2. Emotional Traits
    Psychopaths lack remorse and guilt. Consequently, it is easy for them to manipulate or inflict pain on their victims. They will simply get away with the crime they commit.

    The lack of empathy makes the psychopaths unaware of their victims’ emotional or physical turmoil. They never hold the responsibility of their acts.

    3. Lifestyle Trait
    Psychopaths are impulsive and irresponsible. They typically have no long-term and realistic goals.

    4. Antisocial Traits
    Psychopaths always have difficulties in controlling their behaviour. As a result, developing a social relationship is a constant and huge challenge for them.

    Although psychopaths are rare, they are difficult to spot. You have no idea whether one of your co-workers, classmates, or friends is a psychopath. The 20 traits of a psychopath listed in the scale (PCL-R) will help you assess the suspected person.

    The help of a mental expert may aid the assessment process. Like other psychological disorders, diagnosing psychopathy is also a tricky thing to do. It requires expertise and experience.

  16. Damon

    “Once upon a time, not all that long ago, Victorians depended on their police force to protect them from thuggery and other violence. Now we are searching for a group to protect us from the police”
    How about trying African gangs? The police won’t go near them.

  17. min

    Ethically one can only make a diagnosis through interview , however I will agree that he demonstrates many of those traits . However not sure about relationships , childhood behaviour , and what about life term goals?
    Surely to retire on a huge pension and be offered big paying jobs by Labor mates.

  18. Hay Stockard

    There are other states besides Victoriastan. This whining from the Mexicans is starting to become jejuene.

  19. BULLDOG44

    As I posted on another site – many moons ago I studied Organisanional Theory and one point remained in my mind and seems relevant to our Premier. Many believe that power begins at the top and runs down an organisation, but that is wrong because they mistake authority as power. In fact power begins at the bottom and rises upward. For example if the public refuse to recognise orders from the “authorities “ and ignore them, eventually the public must assume control. A Labor Premier should understand this as it is the basis for all Union strike action. Also it is why Politicians must face elections to assume office. In this case if enough people decide to ignore the Government directions, there will have to be a successful Motion of no confidence, or a new election to resolve any impasse. That is, ultimately in our system, the voters have the power, not the authorities who ultimately serve at our discretion.

  20. Dinky

    if enough people decide to ignore the Government directions, there will have to be a successful Motion of no confidence, or a new election

    That ain’t gonna happen.

  21. The BigBlueCat

    John A
    #3587918, posted on September 17, 2020 at 11:52 am
    This is my latest missive to the local member:

    No use sending this to my local member (Jill Hennessy) – as AG she’s up to her neck in complicity.

  22. Roger

    s “fundamentally incorrect to assert that there was hundreds of ADF staff on offer and somehow someone said no”.

    I happen to know that there were hundreds of ADF personnel advised to prepare for local deployment from Melbourne’s Simpson Barracks who were subsequently told they wouldn’t be needed.

    Someone said no.

  23. incoherent rambler

    Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance.
    Part of a speech that I am working on.

  24. Squirrel

    I distinctly recall a media appearance involving Andrews and Neville in which the Commonwealth offer – and I feel strongly certain it was about the ADF – was brushed off.

    It reeked of parochial hubris and smugness (we’ve got it under control, we don’t need any help) and there was a strong impression that Vic Pol probably saw the offer as an implied insult (fairly sure it was Neville who did the brushing off) – but whatever the vibe, it was a distinct “no”.

  25. min

    He did not say no just did not answer although one public servant replied thanks to an offer.

  26. IR:

    Part of a speech that I am working on.

    I think someone has beaten you to the punchline. By several hundred years….

  27. maman

    Squirrel @ 17.09.20, 6:21pm
    I also remember that appearance – was it at a daily press conference? It was very early on, but as you say it was the attitude that came across that really hit home. The idea that Vic Pol wouldn’t be doing that type of work, no way, they weren’t going to touch it, beneath them. The impression I had at that media event was that the refusal came from the Police Union and not from the top.

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