Death to marijuana

That is what New Zealand voters prefer:

Voters in New Zealand have overwhelmingly opted to legalise euthanasia but have rejected the decriminalisation of marijuana.

Of the 2,415,547 people who cast ballots, 65.2 per cent voted to support the End of Life Choice Act, which will come into effect on November 6 next year.

However, the move to legalise recreational cannabis and allow it to be grown and sold under controlled circumstances was defeated. The “yes” vote had 46.1 per cent support while 53.1 per cent of people voted “no”.

The proposed laws would have allowed anyone over the age of 20 to buy up to 14g of cannabis per day at a price of NZ$20 (£10.24) per gram.

Opinion polls had predicted that New Zealanders would vote in favour of the new euthanasia laws and that they would not support the decriminalisation of marijuana use.

That is an interesting result. I would expect a lot of people to support euthanasia laws and decriminalisation of marijuanaPerhaps not the same people but a winning coalition for both should be attainable.

Marijuana is already legal for medicinal purposes in New Zealand, a protection that remains unchanged.

Aaron Ironside, the spokesman for the victorious “Say Nope to Dope” campaign, said that New Zealanders had voted no because the country already had a relatively high level of marijuana usage and people were “reluctant to do anything to increase that”.

“Younger voters were more concerned about being able to use cannabis in peace. But older voters, even those who had tried it, realised and knew about the damage that it can cause so they swung towards no,” he told The Sydney Morning Herald.

Explained in those terms this does look like an intergenerational dispute.

Update: Jim Rose with a New Zealand perspective on the referendum and debate.

This entry was posted in Cultural Issues, Ethics and morality, Freedom. Bookmark the permalink.

47 Responses to Death to marijuana

  1. Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus

    I don’t mind legalising cannabis, but it is more dangerous than tobacco and best avoided. Medicinal marijuana is a load of horse shit – there has never been shown to be any efficacy for treatment from its use and labelling it as medicinal marijuana should be banned under the CCA as misleading and deceptive. Just call it marijuana, and note that it leads to long term negative health impacts. But if someone wants to use marijuana in their home, I don’t care.

  2. Dot

    Medicinal marijuana is a load of horseshit

    Just shut up and never vote again you dishonest, scientifically illiterate, misinformed imbecile.

  3. No wonder they voted it out!
    Man, somebody was sure going to make a killing out of that.
    NZ$20 per gram.
    Back in 1975 it only cost AUD30 an ounce ….. umm, so I heard from a friend at the time!
    That’s the equivalent of $145 in today’s money.
    This NZ cost comes in at AUD540 per ounce. (28.35 grams)
    Just sayin!
    Tony.

  4. Biota

    LQC there is a lot of other stuff in marijuana other than THC. Medicinal marijuana doesn’t just involve smoking joints.
    https://www.elixinolglobal.com/site/content/

  5. Andre Lewis

    Properly controlled medical use where the product is not addictive has a place but using it off the street or sold ‘legally’ as a mind altering drug causes major psychological problems and leads users into harder drugs over time.

  6. areff

    Kiwis aren’t as silly as they look (all that nose-rubbing and tattooed beards on girls).

    At the prices mentioned above an ounce (28 grams) would run a doper $560 — twice the current black market price (or so I’m told by a bong artist of my acquaintance).

    So legal weed would be vastly more expensive, plus there would doubtless be limits imposed on potency, perhaps the obligation to register as a user and, inevitably, a supervising bureaucracy to sustain in its inexorable expansion.

    If one assumes grass is easily available already — consumers’ needs well serviced by an untaxed entrepreneurial class free to experiment, cross-breed and enjoy the rewards of their efficiency — then Kiwis did the right and logical thing.

    Were they to legislate anything in regard to the Devil’s Weed from Hell it should have been to set a standard for impairment behind the wheel, as with alcohol. My THC-soaked informant lost his licence for six months after a roadside drug test the morning after sharing a number with his missus. He wasn’t bent, just carrying residual indications that he had been. As THC metabolites are said to remain in the system for up to three months, this clearly needs addressing, not least because the increasing embrace of ‘medicinal’ marijuana will mean an awful lot of positives down the road.

    Compulsory ‘education’ classes followed, plus a fine and, while off the road, a reduced income.

  7. Petros

    Wouldn’t be the selfish baby boomers dominating politics again would it?

  8. Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus

    There is no genuine (as in a randomised controlled trial double blind) scientific evidence of the efficacy of marijuana. Therefore you, Dot, are the anti-scientific clown. Until there is such evidence, marijuana cannot be called medicine – it is no different to the myriad of homeopathic products that should never be sold in pharmacies.

  9. candy

    I don’t think intergenerational in the sense of just being about age. More about experience and seeing the harm done by drug addicts to themselves and families and economically over an extended period of time and saying do we need this to get worse.

    I understand this is about personal choice but there’s people around who simply cannot make proper choices maybe because of genetics and drug use simply takes over their life. They simply don’t have the wherewithal and need protection of sorts.

  10. Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus

    Biota – you’re right that THC can be taken in other forms other than smoking. But it is not medicine.

  11. Dot

    Medical marijuana has been known about since at least the 1970s.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1159836/

    Antineoplastic activity of cannabinoids
    A E Munson et al. J Natl Cancer Inst. 1975 Sep.

  12. Dot

    There is no genuine (as in a randomised controlled trial double blind) scientific evidence of the efficacy of marijuana.

    Bullshit.

    You utter clown, there are literally mountains of evidence, but you refuse to look for it.

  13. Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus

    Cite the evidence Dot you clown. Otherwise go away

  14. Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus

    It’s like medicinal mercury. Utter bullshit

  15. Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus

    Dot – I know you like taking marijuana. That’s fine I don’t care and don’t begrudge you getting high. But keep your unscientific views to yourself please

  16. areff

    Surely the key element in any drug legalisation debate is that, ultimately, the State has no right to ordain what free citizens can and cannot do if no one else is harmed. Why not ban sky diving, motorcycles and, while we’re surrendering our rights to engage in risk, alcohol as well?

    I’m not inclined to salty language, but this is the only way to put it: Fuck the State and all the bloodsuckers who sail in her.

  17. stackja

    areff
    #3638556, posted on October 31, 2020 at 11:27 am
    Surely the key element in any drug legalisation debate is that, ultimately, the State has no right to ordain what free citizens can and cannot do if no one else is harmed.

    Cannabis and psychosis: Neurobiology

    Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases.

  18. JC

    Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases.

    Which doesn’t explain a thing as you don’t know if it’s a chicken or egg situation.

  19. Dot

    Gee that was hard. Notice that marijuana and its derivatives can minimise the use of opioids. But hey, it’s only about getting high, right, you dullard?

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0885392409007878

    Journal of Pain and Symptom Management
    Volume 39, Issue 2, February 2010, Pages 167-179

    Original Article (cited by 432)

    Multicenter, Double-Blind, Randomized, Placebo-Controlled, Parallel-Group Study of the Efficacy, Safety, and Tolerability of THC:CBD Extract and THC Extract in Patients with Intractable Cancer-Related Pain

    Johnson et. al., 2010, DOI: https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0885392409007878

    Abstract

    This study compared the efficacy of a tetrahydrocannabinol:cannabidiol (THC:CBD) extract, a nonopioid analgesic endocannabinoid system modulator, and a THC extract, with placebo, in relieving pain in patients with advanced cancer. In total, 177 patients with cancer pain, who experienced inadequate analgesia despite chronic opioid dosing, entered a two-week, multicenter, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled, parallel-group trial. Patients were randomized to THC:CBD extract (n = 60), THC extract (n = 58), or placebo (n = 59). The primary analysis of change from baseline in mean pain Numerical Rating Scale (NRS) score was statistically significantly in favor of THC:CBD compared with placebo (improvement of −1.37 vs. −0.69), whereas the THC group showed a nonsignificant change (−1.01 vs. −0.69). Twice as many patients taking THC:CBD showed a reduction of more than 30% from baseline pain NRS score when compared with placebo (23 [43%] vs. 12 [21%]). The associated odds ratio was statistically significant, whereas the number of THC group responders was similar to placebo (12 [23%] vs. 12 [21%]) and did not reach statistical significance. There was no change from baseline in median dose of opioid background medication or mean number of doses of breakthrough medication across treatment groups. No significant group differences were found in the NRS sleep quality or nausea scores or the pain control assessment. However, the results from the European Organisation for Research and Treatment of Cancer Quality of Life Cancer Questionnaire showed a worsening in nausea and vomiting with THC:CBD compared with placebo (P = 0.02), whereas THC had no difference (P = 1.0). Most drug-related adverse events were mild/moderate in severity. This study shows that THC:CBD extract is efficacious for relief of pain in patients with advanced cancer pain not fully relieved by strong opioids.

    Anyone against the use of this from the final finding is a real c*nt.

  20. areff

    Stackja: Am I my brother’s keeper? Nope, not unless I want to be. It’s not my, or yours, or the State’s responsibility to stop a small number of the feeble-minded making their conditions worse by ill-advised drug use.

  21. JC

    Lucius/ Dot

    Just stop it with the abuse. You’re both on the side of God 99.999999% of the time.

  22. JC

    Stackja: Am I my brother’s keeper? Nope, not unless I want to be. It’s not my, or yours, or the State’s responsibility to stop a small number of the feeble-minded making their conditions worse by ill-advised drug use.

    And consequences are life learning experiences for others especially.

  23. Dot

    Schizophrenics self medicate with marijuana and tobacco.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6678854/

    J Clin Med. 2019 Jul; 8(7): 1058.
    Published online 2019 Jul 19. doi: 10.3390/jcm8071058
    PMCID: PMC6678854
    PMID: 31330972
    The Potential of Cannabidiol as a Treatment for Psychosis and Addiction: Who Benefits Most? A Systematic Review
    Albert Batalla,1,*† Hella Janssen,1,† Shiral S. Gangadin,1,2 and Matthijs G. Bossong1

    In particular, we examined possible profiles of patients who may benefit the most from CBD treatment. CBD, either as monotherapy or added to regular antipsychotic medication, improved symptoms in patients with schizophrenia, with particularly promising effects in the early stages of illness.

  24. areff

    I’m off to Bunnings (Yippee! Free at last, Lord God Almighty free at last!) but a final word: The worst thing about pot is the profoundly boring company of most who smoke it, man.

  25. Eddystone

    In my work as a paramedic I come in contact with a lot of long term heavy pot smokers.

    Most of them are xunts.

    Mind you, they are nearly all on the dole, which I think is the underlying problem.

  26. Dot

    That’s no different to pissheads on the dole, really.

  27. Entropy

    I cannot fathom how you can Call something medicinal if you don’t have a clue as to the actual dose. Why not identify the relevant chemicals and produce them artificially, so the correct amount can be applied?

    Why this almost religious aspect to a medical treatment?

  28. Dot

    I cannot fathom how you can Call something medicinal if you don’t have a clue as to the actual dose.

    Because the drug has little chance of side effects and the goal is pain relief of (often) dying people.

  29. Dot

    You can also work out a dose of a joint for example. The idea you can’t quantify that is a bit off.

    The concentration of CBD oil can be quantified too.

  30. Zatara

    If anyone has the time and interest there are 100+ clinical studies and case reports regarding medical use of marijuana here to read through.

    Anecdotally, a friend and employee of mine was having a horrible time tolerating chemo for his chest cancer. A treatment would wipe him out for days making working for a living prolematic. At one point his nephew talked him into smoking a bowl after treatment and the results were excellent. He was able to go back to work consistently, although obviously not the same day, and eventually the chemo did it’s job as he is now in remission.

    So yeah, I believe that medical marijuana has its uses because I have seen it work. But I wouldn’t allow anyone to work for me who I knew or suspected was under its effect. The potential liability is just too high. So I’d vote no on general legalization until someone figures out a way to prevent operating a vehicle or equipment while stoned.

  31. Dot

    What’s stopping us from driving after sculling a bottle of Benadryl?

  32. Zatara

    What’s stopping us from driving after sculling a bottle of Benadryl?

    Dunno.

    But I know what happens when a cop pulls over a rolling cloud of dope with roaches in the ashtray.

    Are you suggesting that since we can’t prevent one we shouldn’t prevent any?

  33. Dot

    Are you suggesting that since we can’t prevent one we shouldn’t prevent any?

    Yep, I certainly am Ms Whattaboutism. Here, have a lobster courtesy of JP.

  34. Zatara

    Nah, that wasn’t whattaboutism.

    This is:

    Do you have a problem with a bunch of stoners conducting 100 hour maintenance on the engine of the jet you are getting ready to fly to Bali on?

    How do you propose to prevent that if marijuana is legalized?

  35. JohnJJJ

    Shame. I was looking forward to New Zealand turning into a version of a village in Dahomey circa 1800. We could visit the villagers in grass huts, stoned out their brains, grinding gruel for the next meal, hunting… well may be not hunting as they will all be vegans. The occasional scream as a zonked out old person i.e. over 35 and past their vegan use by date, is whacked on the head with a rock. The dirt roads lined with the upright rotting bodies on poles. With the young NZ version of Idi Amin or Charles Taylor playing hide a seek around the bodies. ya man.

  36. John Bayley

    How do you propose to prevent that if marijuana is legalized?

    How do you propose to prevent that if marijuana is illegal?

    How do you propose to stop drink driving? — Maybe if we banned alcohol, it would stop, right? /s

    And here I was, thinking this was a libertarian-leaning website.

  37. Dot

    Zatara the “problem” is that the rules on driving stoned cannot be objective thus far unlike alcohol related rules.

    Which in turn means the rules for marijuana are therefore much, much more harsh and therefore you have nothing to worry about.

  38. Dot

    JohnJJJ
    #3638635, posted on October 31, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    Shame. I was looking forward to New Zealand turning into a version of a village in Dahomey circa 1800. We could visit the villagers in grass huts, stoned out their brains, grinding gruel for the next meal, hunting… well may be not hunting as they will all be vegans. The occasional scream as a zonked out old person i.e. over 35 and past their vegan use by date, is whacked on the head with a rock. The dirt roads lined with the upright rotting bodies on poles. With the young NZ version of Idi Amin or Charles Taylor playing hide a seek around the bodies. ya man.

    Jesus christ, what is this idiocy?

    Did you forget your manners, Ayatollah?

  39. Dot

    There is no genuine (as in a randomised controlled trial double blind) scientific evidence of the efficacy of marijuana.

    DOES ANYONE WANT TO WALK THIS BACK NOW IT HAS BEEN THOROUGHLY DISPROVEN?

  40. Zatara

    Dot, I’m not worried about anything thanks.

    As I said, I am pro legalized marijuana in principle as I’ve seen it work.

    And I repeat: “So I’d vote no on general legalization until someone figures out a way to prevent operating a vehicle or equipment while stoned.”

  41. Up The Workers!

    Good choice.

    New Zealand already has far too many dopers in Parliament.

    Euthanise them and you’ll be killing two stoners with the one bird.

    (And Mr. Ed still wants his dentures returned!)

  42. A reader

    Goes with the Kiwi character. They leave people to die all the time, Pike River and White Island come to mind immediately

  43. A Lurker

    Euthanasia – kill off the old, the infirm, those suffering from dementia, and the clinically depressed; which leaves only the sheep and goat shaggers, and the mentally deficient Left.

  44. Squirrel

    Aside from the shrewd points about pricing which have already been made, the marijuana result might also be to do with the numbers of New Zealanders who would have supported the change but didn’t bother to vote because they’re living overseas (and are unlikely to return).

  45. Eyrie

    Zatara the “problem” is that the rules on driving stoned cannot be objective thus far unlike alcohol related rules.

    The rules on alcohol aren’t objective. Some tolerate it it far better than others but we assume everyone is the same.
    Ought to be possible nowadays to devise a computer based cognition/response program to provide an objective test of impairment no matter what substance has been ingested.

  46. Dot

    You’re right Eyrie. Intoxication is a vague concept and compare tolerance and processing of codiene between individuals, genetics matters.

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