Kim Beazley and Tony Abbott on saving Western Civilisation

Just posted by the Ramsay Centre: Peta Credlin speaks to two Rhodes Scholars on a reset worth backing:

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40 Responses to Kim Beazley and Tony Abbott on saving Western Civilisation

  1. EllenG

    Abbott needs to go back to school. Somehow missed the fact that quite a lot of the civilising influence was in languages other than English. I fail to see why the contributions of Greece, Italy, Germany, France or indeed the Chinese, Persians and Mughal India don’t get any credit. China was printing books when Europe was emerging from caves.

  2. exsteelworker

    Ellen, MODERN Western Civilisation is indeed the creation of the English speaking world. The Modern world, not ancient world.

  3. Perfidious Albino

    Christ, if the future of Western Civilization rests on those two milquetoasts were in a lot of trouble…

  4. Roger

    if the future of Western Civilization rests on those two milquetoasts were in a lot of trouble…

    I note the Ramsay Centre’s next marquee speakers are Ita Buttrose & Noel Pearson.

    Free speech and all that, but hardly inspiring choices given Ramsay’s purported mission.

  5. egg_

    if the future of Western Civilization rests on those two milquetoasts were in a lot of trouble…

    Amen.
    Abbott was a fair way down the batting order of Howard’s First Eleven, and as for “small target” Beazley…

  6. EllenG

    Exsteelworker: you’d really have to have a narrow definition of modern to exclude, for example, German speaking contributors. I dare say the French and Spanish would have something to say and Italy only misses out if you completely exclude the 19th century. And even then….

  7. Howard Hill

    These two have done nothing but make democracy a joke in this country.

    Abbott, the great back flipper who doesn’t believe in free speech.
    Beazley. Trump is a menace who’s going to blow up the world.
    Well I guess, Beazley is part right 🙂

  8. egg_

    German speaking contributors.

    German was virtually the official language of Science during the 19th and early 20th century.

  9. Roger

    German was virtually the official language of Science during the 19th and early 20th century.

    And theology, which turned out not to be such a great thing.

    Be that as it may, I recently read that de Gaulle once said “One speaks French to a man, Italian to a woman, German to horses and Spanish to God, but English…who speaks English?”

  10. Mother Lode

    Roger,

    I heard (not attributable to de Gaulle):

    French for diplomats
    Italian for lovers
    German for dogs.

    As for de Gaulle, well, twice in his own cantankerous puffed up lifetime the British and Americans had to intercede to save the French and bring the Germans to heel.

    I have not seen the clip because I am waiting for Guinness but civilising is such a multi-faceted idea. In modern history the French and Italians developed and possessed beautiful cultures, but did they really export them, did they proselytise civilisation or just leave it in their wake?

    The British had some sense of responsibility – the nations left as the tide of empire receded fared pretty well. But far and away the most devoted carriers are the Americans.

    And it is not just about power. China has power, but it is a reflection of America. Some things are the same (colour, shape, vertical orientation) but some the opposite (like left-right orientation). But without America they would have no idea. Just replicating tyranny over and over again.

    In the modern world, as in right now, America transmits culture including its take on French, German and Italian culture.

    The rest of the Anglosphere are associate members.

  11. Roger

    The British had some sense of responsibility – the nations left as the tide of empire receded fared pretty well.

    Indeed, they did.

    I once heard a Cambridge educuated Indian gentleman rubbishing British colonialism…in perfect English while nursing a glass of scotch and watching the cricket.

  12. harrys on the boat

    Does Sinc have all these sock puppets to pile in when Abbott is mentioned?

  13. one old bruce

    Modernity in thinking and reasoning are often said to have begun with Rene Descartes.

    His influence is still felt in our western legal system:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_judgment

  14. Roger

    I once heard a Cambridge educuated Indian gentleman rubbishing British colonialism…in perfect English while nursing a glass of scotch and watching the cricket.

    I listened patiently and thought for a moment when he looked to me for a response – after all, I didn’t want to get into an argument with my prospective father in law.

    “But then”, I ventured, “there would be no India without the British.”

    The focus shifted back to the cricket.

  15. Cassie of Sydney

    “EllenG
    #3665716, posted on November 20, 2020 at 4:25 pm
    Abbott needs to go back to school.”

    It’s not Abbott who needs to go back to school….Da EllenG

  16. one old bruce

    Nirad Chaudhuri was a fanatical defender of English civilisation:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirad_C._Chaudhuri

  17. one old bruce

    The reason the CCP says it can dispute the border with India is because that border was created by the British without consulting them. It’s kind of an insult to Indians, implying that while they got independence they are still in effect British lackeys defending colonial borders. I’ve never heard Indians admit this, but Chinese really rub it in.

  18. Roger

    It’s kind of an insult to Indians, implying that while they got independence they are still in effect British lackeys defending colonial borders.

    The irony being that the border was negotiated with Tibet, which Communist China has subsequently invaded and suppressed as a colonial power.

  19. one old bruce

    Oh yes CCP is acting like a colonial power I agree. And I’ve always taken India’s side, especially as it’s familiar – with its British traditions. But I did spend some time among Chinese including some CCP folks in the 1990s and was surprised at how they have their own take on everything and complex counter-explanations. The implication seems to be that anywhere ‘Chinese’ people have settled, including parts of NW India such as Manipur and nearby states, are ‘part of China’. But then we could say why not Thailand too?

    In fact I’m beginning to question the whole ‘Han Chinese’ designation (back at you CCP!) as a bit of a myth. One ‘Han’ friend told me he actually has Manchu ancestry and you can see it right away – tall warrior like the Terracotta Army statues. Then there are the Hakka who are a major influence. What does ‘Han’ really mean anyway? (Usually defined by surname and legal status).

  20. one old bruce

    Sorry – North East India, not NW.

  21. John snowy Bowyer

    Roger, the British also invaded Tibet. Redcoats and Martini Henry self loading rifles against a Tibetan army with wooden clubs. They extracted a peace from the Dalai Llama at the barrel of British guns but did march back out again.
    Unlike the CCP!

  22. NuThink

    Roger,
    I once heard a Cambridge educuated [sic ] Indian gentleman rubbishing British colonialism…in perfect English while nursing a glass of scotch and watching the cricket.

    Has he ever given an opinion on the Dalits?

    Dalit – Wikipedia
    Search domain en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalithttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit
    Dalit (Sanskrit: दलित, romanized: dälit), meaning “broken/scattered” in Sanskrit and Hindi, is a name for people belonging to the lowest caste in India characterized as “untouchable”. Dalits were excluded from the four-fold varna system of Hinduism and were seen as forming a fifth varna, also known by the name of Panchama. Dalits now profess various religious beliefs, including ..

    Under India’s caste system, Dalits are considered …
    Search domain http://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/asia/india-coronavirus-lower-castes-hnk-intl/index.htmlhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/asia/india-coronavirus-lower-castes-hnk-intl/index.html
    Apr 15, 2020Dalits are forced to take up the jobs such as cleaning, manual scavenging, working at brick kilns and leather-crafting — occupations considered “filthy” or “dishonorable” for higher-caste…

    In my experience the Dalits are not just the untouchables but also the unmentionables.

  23. Roger

    Has he ever given an opinion on the Dalits?

    He thought the caste system was an unjustifiable relic.

  24. Roger

    Like most of the Indian elite, whether at home or in the diaspora, he was leftwards leaning.

    However he had his children baptised and educated in church schools, although his English wife may have had some say on that.

  25. Fin.

    ” and Martini Henry self loading rifles..”.

    Really? Who knew.

  26. John A

    Roger #3665829, posted on November 20, 2020, at 5:34 pm

    German was virtually the official language of Science during the 19th and early 20th century.

    And theology, which turned out not to be such a great thing.

    Indeed, nineteenth-century German theology did a great deal to undermine the Christian message. About the only spiritual benefit we have received from central Europe and the Germanic tribes has been the export of the Reformation to the UK, and thence to the New World. After Luther and Calvin (Swiss), only heresy.

  27. Rex Anger

    Roger, the British also invaded Tibet. Redcoats and Martini Henry self loading rifles

    I wish!

    Beautiful weapons, elegantly simple and a strong action for the time. I handled some (ostensibly) innoc’d Federation-era Martini-Henry cadet rifles at my Squadron’s armoury many moons ago. I say ‘ostensibly’ as the actions still worked just fine, though the muzzle and chamber were plugged.

    But self-loading? Only if carried by a competent and quick-handed rifleman…

  28. Fin.

    “But self-loading? Only if carried by a competent and quick-handed rifleman…”.

    No. Never, no matter how quick, competent, or whatever.

  29. Rex Anger

    No. Never, no matter how quick, competent, or whatever.

    The lack of any magazine will do that to you… 😉

    (Ditto the lack of any return springs or gas system).

  30. egg_

    I once heard a Cambridge educuated Indian gentleman rubbishing British colonialism…in perfect English while nursing a glass of scotch and watching the cricket.

    You’d probably enjoy Art Malik in Dean Spanley starring Sam Neill.

  31. ProEng

    Neither Abbott or Beazley mention democracy in Switzerland where they have citizen initiated referendum (CIR) and recall of parliamentarians and government officials. Switzerland has prospered with CIR and democracy has been enhanced. In comparison democracy has reduced in Australia and Australia relative to Switzerland and many other countries such as Singapore has gone financially backwards. I worked in Switzerland many years ago when the exchange rate was $A1.00=SwF 4.80

  32. Scott Osmond

    After the damage and inaction of these 2 when they were in office I have no interest in anything they have to say. Arsonists should not be asked their opinion on fire fighting and prevention.

  33. jupes

    I love how they portray Beazo as some sort of statesman, when in fact he is the worst sort of Labor grifter still sucking off the government teat. Let’s not forget that he was on the board of the Pirate’s stupid Republican push when he was asked to represent the Queen in WA.

    Of course, he accepted.

  34. one old bruce

    Hilarious nutty comment John A. Gave me a chuckle.

  35. Mother Lode

    I don’t know about Martinis (except that you should never shake them because it bruises the gin) And if they were ‘self-loading’, but if they were ‘lock-and-loading’ then one of our resident experts would assure us they were fated to a quagmire that could only have been redeemed by deployment of more projectionists and blanket-counters.

    I expect the crazy British sent soldiers instead.

  36. Mother Lode

    Oh, and Abbott? The hated ogre of the left that some on the right seek to have adopted as an ogre also?

    You should really ask yourself why the left hate him so much.

    Looking at his record as PM you can’t use the record of the LNP as a proxy – the relation between the two entities being more complex than mere identity.

    When he got in he dealt with the big issues (the CO2 tax and open borders) at once. Every day his name and his family were dragged through the mud by Fauxfacts and Teh ABC. His treacherous party was happy to use the left wing MSM against him – as if they would respond with loyalty. Idiots.

    Finally the LNP decided Abbott was too much an impediment to their News Corp style flirtation with the left and dumped him and replace him with that spoilt brat child care Trumble.

    So what do we know:
    Abbott made progress (and easily overlooked progress because he was responding to relatively recent problems when they were alarming but had not yet matured into full-fledged disasters yet).
    Everything he did had to be a compromise with a party itself compromised by Trumble-ite wets.
    He wanted to rescind s18C of the RDA but was scuppered by the wet Brandis who made freedom of speech sound like something only raaaaacists and bigots wanted and many of the people who should want it were suddenly opposed to it.
    The LNP finally pushed him aside. Many of their base obligingly despised Abbott, and others believed the ‘polls’ believing they should not oppose the will of the pollsters.
    In his absence the LNP veered ever further left unimpeded.

    But yeah. Let’s blame Abbott for where we are now.

  37. Mother Lode

    Spoilt brat child Trumble.

    No idea where ‘care’ came from.

    Probable Apple trying to rehabilitate the legacy of failed, but leftist, leaders.

  38. Mother Lode

    The hated ogre of the left that some on the right seek seem to have adopted as an ogre also?

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