Open Forum: November 21, 2020

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2,915 Responses to Open Forum: November 21, 2020

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  1. JC

    Drillsie

    You remind me so much of Napoleon Dynamite.

    People just want to randomly push you around.

    See here:

  2. egg_

    I’ve grown feed 2 metres high… on far worse country than in that video.

    Not in the dry season.

    My family have run stations for over a century – I believe my family and Armadillo’s are intermarried, whatever.

    Even Canberra shiny @rses may have their roots in the bush.

    Chip-on-shoulder.

  3. miltonf

    I know of Wrotham Park. West of Cairns right?

  4. BrettW

    Just spoke to somebody who is in Royal Queensland Regiment which is a reserve unit. Their annual ball is at Southbank Brisbane tomorrow. He says they have been told not to wear medals when normally at such a function they would wear them. He says there is much discussion that the reason may be due to fall out of the SF inquiry.

    If this is true then it is a major over reaction by senior officers who don’t understand the great majority of the public still supports the troops no matter what a few may have done.

  5. Infidel Tiger King

    Some knobhead anti-Adani protestor invades the pitch at the SCG.

    In a righteous country his bullet ridden carcass would now be hanging from the Ladies Stand.

  6. Some knobhead anti-Adani protestor invades the pitch at the SCG.

    Did they pause to kneel?

    i.e. are they are ‘righteous protester’ or a disrespectful racist trespasser?

  7. Snoopy

    Predictions from the Bureau of Meteorology and the top US forecaster, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, indicate water temperatures off north-eastern Australia will be above average in December and January. Should those warm conditions persist, NOAA sees an elevated risk of a fourth mass bleaching in six years.

    “There is a good chance of bleaching on the Great Barrier Reef, especially inshore reefs, as well as bleaching of reefs along the northern coast including offshore islands,” Mark Eakin, co-ordinator of NOAA’s Coral Reef Watch program, said. “While this can certainly change depending on weather patterns, the outlook indicates a need for enhanced readiness.

    “enhanced readiness” for what? A mass evacuation of coral polyps? Air drops of water cooling bundles of taxpayers money?

  8. Gab

    A live petition has attracted more than 40,000 signatures since going live this week after ADF chief General Angus Campbell announced the Special Operations Task Group Afghanistan citation would be taken off up to 3000 current of former soldiers.

    Would someone please link to this petition?

  9. miltonf

    At the party meeting of NSW Coalition MLCs earlier this week, their Leader, Don Harwin, said, “There is the obvious enemy in our chamber (meaning Labor) and then there is the Real Enemy, One Nation and the Shooters.”

    So be it.

    Latho yesterday.

  10. cohenite

    It only takes 165 kVA to power this resort

    It looks like the top paddock on my grandfather’s property; minus the crocs.

  11. bespoke

    Bushkid
    #3672818, posted on November 27, 2020 at 1:40 pm
    bespoke
    #3672391, posted on November 27, 2020 at 5:45 am
    Before I go , I don’t it’s entirely a morality issue eating human meat. What if supply runs short for some reason? People will have been conditioned that it’s OK.

    Isn’t that their point?

    The scientist can think they aren’t promoting cannibalism but I believe in Murphy’s Law.

    Get people over the icky ness of eating artificially grown human meat, supply get interrupted, cannibalism is no longer the last resort.

  12. It only takes 165 kVA to power this resort

    Handy to know.
    All ten rooms + a storeroom & kitchen that cooks for twenty five.

  13. C.L.

    Petition:

    Voice of a Veteran.

    This is the name of the petition mentioned in news reports.
    Not sure what the difference is between this one and the change.org one.

  14. Top Ender

    HMAS Australia saw a murder committed on board in WWII.

    Strangely, it didn’t lose its battle honours.

  15. P

    ‘A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19’ – The Johns Hopkins News-Letter

    I’ve been trying to trace this newsletter but everywhere on twitter it has been wiped like here –
    https://twitter.com/DavidLeyonhjelm/status/1332077754603368449

    Controversy (Wiki)

    Here is the article from a twitter a/c that will no doubt be removed shortly.

  16. egg_

    All ten rooms + a storeroom & kitchen that cooks for twenty five.

    A total of 330 kVA available, if required.

    Mine site accommodation in the WA desert: 60 dongas* with a/c running 24/7 plus the central canteen/entertainment area: 3 x 105 kVA, but usually 2 online max at any given time.
    Minesite offices and workshop: 2 x 105 kVA, but usually only 1 online max at any given time.

    *With room for expansion to 100.

  17. P

    Further to my above comment on covid-19:

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    2h
    For purposes of National Security, Section 230 must be immediately terminated!!!

  18. egg_

    All ten rooms + a storeroom & kitchen that cooks for twenty five.

    IIRC typical load near completion was c. 55 kW, likely higher than the operational phase.

  19. bespoke

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    Nov 28, 2013
    Happy Thanksgiving to all–even the haters and losers!

    😎

  20. calli

    Trump has the most pathetic twitter trolls on the planet.

    But he loves them. A little bit. 😀

  21. egg_ : This electrical stuff, while doubtless fascinating to some (& mind boggling to me, someone raised on 3.5KVA & you could hear it for a few miles) could be enhanced with some videos of running generators.

    The cattle handling video = very good & one of the better ones I’ve seen. Similar standard for power generations please. 😎

  22. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    I crawled into the physio’s surgery this arvo to get my left foot ligaments and back muscles beaten back into shape after a grueling dance class. I fear, Tinta, that I kicked a few too many too high, enthused as I was to do a few for you as well. Truth to tell, it is the sideways quicksteps, the chasses, that do me in most. Keep up wit’ da dance classes, says my Irish physio (so many Irish medical people in Australia now). I am sure he has my best interests at heart, but I am not bad for business either with this advice.

    When I arrived home, no longer clutching my back nor hobbling, Hairy had a tale of great drama to tell. One of the fledglings had got stuck on the verandah outside our bedroom, which also has a glass balustrade, but a higher one than on the terrace. He tried to get the little thing up and over with a broom as I had done with the one on the terrace but this one was less co-operative, shrieking and flapping in a corner vainly trying to fly through the glass. Mum Currawong, he says, was going absolutely ballistic flapping and calling until the little one finally realised if he flattened himself he could squeak out underneath the glass balustrade if he moved closer to mum, which he did, flying away with mum hotly behind him to check on his welfare. None of them have been back yet. I will go out and do normal feeding things and hope they are hungry enough to risk us again. Attapuss apparently watched it all with great interest, through a glass door.

  23. twostix

    This.

    Is the bugman class who rules you.

  24. Roger

    This.

    Is the bugman class who rules you.

    Tsk…tsk…not much social distancing happening there.

  25. Bruce of Newcastle

    Attapuss apparently watched it all with great interest, through a glass door.

    My mum calls them lunch birds, because when the currawongs come to the window her two cats watch them with great fascination and hope. Cat television!

    I’m hopeful for the kookas, who are still going into the nest box, which means something is happening. But this morning Mrs Kooka had an irate crested pigeon beating on her. The crested pigeons also are nesting…one metre above the kookas. The male crested pigeon nearly followed Mrs Kooka into the nest box in outraged outrage. How dare someone else nest in our tree!

  26. egg_

    The cattle handling video = very good & one of the better ones I’ve seen.

    +1

    Some serious money went into that one, obviously.

    EE (4SRKT) DEMU “Thumpers” showing infrasound for a cynical Sinc posted many times.

  27. egg_

    This electrical stuff, while doubtless fascinating to some…

    They were anecdotal ballpark accommodation figures for your benefit.

  28. Dr Faustus

    The Chief of the Army has cut short a press conference after he was grilled over the decision to issue 13 elite soldiers their marching orders over alleged war crimes in Afghanistan and he was asked if he plans to resign.

    “We have seen generals in Japan hanged for war crimes that they had no knowledge of,’’ the reporter asked. “Can you tell me why you shouldn’t resign?”

    Apparently not.

  29. They were anecdotal ballpark accommodation figures for your benefit.

    Kind of you.
    Though I’ve barely a layman’s interest in electrickery type stuff.

  30. rickw

    Canada, but would all look very familiar to Victorians. Same script.

  31. “We have seen generals in Japan hanged for war crimes that they had no knowledge of,’’ the reporter asked. “Can you tell me why you shouldn’t resign?”

    This is going to be popcorn worthy. 🤣🤣🤣

    I’ve a feeling Generals will now become very publicity-shy.

  32. rickw

    Meanwhile back in Victoria:

  33. rickw

    I’ve a feeling Generals will now become very publicity-shy.

    But seriously, how fucking retarded are they? They’re shocked and surprised that the blame game has reached them? Not worthy of commanding a heard of goats.

  34. Roger

    They’re shocked and surprised that the blame game has reached them?

    I won’t be satisfied until it reaches the political level.

  35. MatrixTransform

    dear Grill’d

    not happy.
    Stood in line to get a table … then nothing
    Got up asked how I order and the stupid boy (apparently the manager) says get it line, or use the web. Standing beside an empty cash register while he said it too.

    Line was about 5 people deep so tried the web.
    Paid up front.
    Paid premium for abysmal service

    meanwhile the couple beside us stood there for 5min waiting for their table to be cleared.
    They ended up doing it themselves.
    Yes, they got the spray bottle and cloth from the empty cash register and cleaned their own table.
    about 1 minute later their burgers and chips landed.
    Yep, they stood for 5min, cleaned their own table and were unceremoniously delivered their premium burgers without so much as a smile.
    Premium price, abysmal service.

    Concurrently I watch another woman dutifully line up 3 times to negotiate her order.
    waited in the line 3 times!
    while a cash register remained idle and ‘the manager’ looked soooo busy.
    Abysmal.

    So yeah, I was vocal about it to my wife at the time and your passive-aggressive, backward baseball cap wearing manager was not happy.

    Amazingly my burger …
    … not the burger the chips and the drink
    … not my burger AND the wife’s burger and chips.
    … just my burger
    was plopped in front of me with a saccharin sweet condescension by ‘the manager’

    I looked at it and knew that burger was ‘special’

    I was livid and my wife recommended I leave (and I did)
    She remained and tried to reason with ‘the manager’
    asked for her money back
    was told, “no” and given a whole stream of bullshit.
    She walked out too.

    My family spent decades in hospitality,.
    My wife worked in hospitality for many years
    We know what goes on
    I know when I’m being screwed.

    I will never ever as long as there is breath in my body, darken your doorstep again.

    So listen, stick the $40 up your arse

  36. Knuckle Dragger

    Hmm. 6/374.

    Probably 25 shy of the mark on a belter of a pitch.

  37. kaysee

    Thanksgiving. A beautiful testimony.

    Religious cloistered vocation is “a beautiful gift from God” (6:25)

    Rebekah Siegler is an aspirant nun to the Carmel of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph in Fairfield, Pennsylvania who will be entering the monastery on December 4.

  38. miltonf

    The Chief of the Army has cut short a press conference after he was grilled over the decision to issue 13 elite soldiers their marching orders over alleged war crimes in Afghanistan and he was asked if he plans to resign.

    “We have seen generals in Japan hanged for war crimes that they had no knowledge of,’’ the reporter asked. “Can you tell me why you shouldn’t resign?”

    Apparently not.
    Thanks for posting. Good to see journos doing their job for a change. Class warfare from above. Despicable.

  39. Bruce of Newcastle

    MT has been Drill’d.

  40. Albatross

    MatrixTransform
    #3673068, posted on November 27, 2020 at 6:43 pm

    Any “restaurant” where you pre-pay for your food is no such thing.

  41. Albatross

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #3673080, posted on November 27, 2020 at 6:56 pm
    MT has been Drill’d.

    Sinc can you please get Sal to refund MT’s dinner?

  42. MatrixTransform

    MT has been Drill’d.

    they always bothered me
    only went because the Crazy Old Mole likes it

    today p!55ed me off

  43. egg_

    Grill’d

    HFC (Healthy Fried Chicken) Nuggets?
    Someone has a sense of humour.

  44. Albatross

    MatrixTransform
    #3673068, posted on November 27, 2020 at 6:43 pm

    MT name the joint.

  45. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    They’re back. All four fledglings, definite teenagers now except the smallest youngest one who is only just approaching adolescence, all of them growing daily, plus mum and dad; the whole family simply took over the Jacaranda, chased off the Lorikeets and settled down to their rightful fare. Like a day out at MacDonalds, it was, with bits being dropped, mum and dad insisting on them eating certain choice bits they’d personally selected by stuffing them down opened beaks, even though this lot were all gathered around the food at first helping themselves. A lot of jostling for position amongst the young, and mum and dad taking five on a branch to enjoy it all together at the end watching their brood hop around and do a bit of preening. Has everyone gone to the toilet? I can imagine mum asking, for a couple are clearly doing so now.

    Why yes, yes they have, and not on our front path either.
    All good, as the family takes off for the night.

  46. Albatross

    Oh. Grill’d. Get it. Thought you’d got a pub feed at Driller’s joint.

  47. Yep, they stood for 5min, cleaned their own table and were unceremoniously delivered their premium burgers without so much as a smile.
    Premium price, abysmal service.

    The inevitable outcome of a system in which employers are taken to court for sacking anyone, the base wage (in Grill’d) is $27 p hr for base level staff, with escalating penalty rates for work outside 9-5 Mon-Fri.

    There’s a lot to be said for fire-at-will, with a robust tipping culture.

  48. kaysee

    1918 Spanish Flu

    Quick snippet

    The paper

    What caused the bacterial pneumonia? Was it masks?

  49. egg_

    Teh Great Reset – “ride the unicorn!”

  50. kaysee

    A Personal Statement from General Flynn to America: Faith, Family, and Friendships

    By Almighty God’s grace and with the love and courage of my wife Lori, the strength and fortitude of our families, and the inspiration of our friends and every single patriot who circled me with their prayers, wisdom, and kindness, I say thank you from the bottom of my heart. For the first time in more than four years and because of my fearless attorney, Sidney Powell, the Guardian Angel of American Justice, and thousands of good people with endless energy rallying together on my behalf, I breathe freedom and liberty today.

    We are a nation founded by leaders who fought tyranny and oppression to ensure that all American citizens be treated fairly and equally across this land. These constitutional and God-given rights should never be denied or disguised behind false prosecution or political persecution out of fear, hate, or an opposing voice. Those who scowl at the very core of our Republic and act from vengeance or revenge against one of us, threaten the safety and security of all of us.

    Never again should any family or individual be so viciously targeted, maligned, smeared, and threatened such has been the experience of my family and I. Not you and your loved ones, not me nor President Trump, our First Lady, and the Trump children. Stand with me today in renouncing this betrayal of trust that has burdened our nation and proclaim with one united voice across this land that we will never again allow the rightful power of the citizens of this country to be uprooted, undercut, usurped, or held hostage by a coup against our nation, a duly elected President or any future president of these United States.

  51. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Today I visited two large shopping centres, one on the north side of Sydney and one in the eastern suburbs. Flight Centres in both of these locations were roaring, doing a great trade in local Christmas flights interstate.
    Because it was a big retail push day – Black Whatever – the traffic was horrendous and the shops in both shopping centres were doing great business. Not much was closed.

    It seemed like Covid-19 wasn’t going to make it to Covid-21 in NSW anyway.

    Just keep protecting those in nursing homes and most of the rest can take care of themselves. It is generally a mild disease, but we could get burnt if vaccines prove ineffective or difficult to get to a whole population, for we probably have very little herd immunity against it when it comes in, as it will. We’ll be relying on improved treatments.

  52. kaysee

    AstraZeneca’s ‘mistake’ in COVID-19 vaccine trials could halt approval

    AstraZeneca’s coronavirus vaccine is coming under intense scrutiny after its UK scientists made a major “mistake” during trials — one that could even halt it from getting approved, according to reports.

    The UK drugmaker and its partner, Oxford University, admitted — after reporting its vaccine tested up to 90 percent effective — that the promising results came after a batch of volunteers were accidentally given half doses. The efficacy of the vaccine was significantly lower at 62 percent for those who received the correctly administered two full doses.

    Lead researcher Mene Pangalos insisted it was “serendipity,” but the error, which was not reported in the initial findings, has brought the vaccine under intense scrutiny from scientists and industry experts.

    The half-dose group was just 2,741 volunteers — and all were under 55, raising questions as to whether the relative youth of the participants created the positive results, not the size of the dose.

    “It pains me to say this, but… I think the claims made for the Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine are on *very* shaky ground. We should wait for a solid large trial,” scientist Hilda Bastian tweeted after the testers’ confessions.

  53. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Parking was a nightmare in both Centres. In one of them I must admit that in order to get to my physio appointment I slotted backwards into a just vacated space for Parents with Prams Only. I’ve had four children and have six grandchildren and know a lot about struggling with prams, but I pulled out the old ‘you’re a grandmother with a sore back and mending broken foot and life owes you’ stunt to calm my trepidation at my own daring and selfishness. I made my appointment.

  54. shatterzzz

    On a bus today .. sans mask, as usual, & realised that not only were 95% of the passengers wearing masks but NONE were wearing those, original $3 a pack blue ones, this lot all looked the height of designer fashion in both shape, colour & material ….. seems there is lotza money being made in the, nouveau, mask industry … competition for the bottled water mob money ……

  55. BrettW

    Personally I find the whole comparison with what the Japanese did in WW2 irritating. The use of the Yamashita case is not a good reference point. His trial is hardly an example of justice we should be following. He was found guilty of things he definitely had no command or control over. The level of atrocities committed by the Japanese were widespread and in many cases involved tens of thousands of civilians or long term mistreatment of POW’s etc. Even if every case in the SF inquiry is proven in court they are nowhere near the magnitude of what the Japanese committed.

    People are pointing out nobody has been convicted of anything yet but at the same time expecting or demanding senior officers resign. So if the “inquiry” is a witch hunt should we now have a witch hunt of senior officers ? Can’t have it both ways. By the time trials are finished I doubt Campbell will still be CDF but do we “convict” him now ?

    If the Yamashita level of accounability applies in Oz then what about the Americans ? I don’t recall any senior officers standing down when their soldiers have been convicted of unauthorised killings in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan. If people want to compare how about forgetting about Yamashita.

    I would rather Campbell step down due to the fact he is “woke”. As far as I can see CDF, Chief of Army and MAJGEN McDaniel are ex SAS. The later two commanding the unit. Just my opinion but aren’t Generals who have served in or commanded the SAS a good thing ? I presume it means they were selected over others of their rank. Or is the LTCOL commanding SAS rated equally with a LTCOL in logistics ?

    I don’t think the high command anticipated the backlash to the report. From my opinion the decision to withdraw the unit citation is causing the most flak and from that follows the comparison with medals for Generals like Campbell and Burr for being in command of them Task Force. Their citations mention leadership in action when obviously they were far from any bullet flying. Their medals were earned partly through the work and good results on the ground acheived by the Special Forces. Same applies to the lower level medal and commendations awarded for leadership to those below MAJGEN.

    If a bravery medal was earned around the time that soldier committed a “war crime” and if it was related to the recommendation then it should be re-considered after any conviction. I emphasise conviction and after any appeals. However if the bravery medal was awarded for a totally unrated encounter then should stand,

    “We have seen generals in Japan hanged for war crimes that they had no knowledge of,’’ the reporter asked. “Can you tell me why you shouldn’t resign?”

  56. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Parking was a nightmare in both Centres.

    I’ve noticed that a great deal of those using “Seniors” parking spots drive black utes with “P” plates…

  57. Oh come on

    Time to put a 200% tariff on shitty Chinese cars. Oh you were hoping to build a market here, “MG”? Sorry about that! You can’t dump your rubbish cars here. Please make them better, like the Japanese and Koreans do.

  58. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    It was kill or be killed in those carparks. People were ducking and weaving everywhere, tempers were fraying, horns were being blown, some people double parked in an aisle waiting to spring on the next person who was walking towards their car there and claim them like a trophy – mine! blinker’s on and the rest of you can go away. Sometimes two lurkers were stalking the same walker. Battles were won by inches. Some just gave up and went home. It was all made more difficult in the Westfields Bondi Junction maze of caverns, plateaus, slopes and secret underground niches because the green signal system indicating empty spaces was turned off months ago due to Covid and hasn’t been reinstated.

  59. jupes

    Just my opinion but aren’t Generals who have served in or commanded the SAS a good thing ?

    Clearly no. Former SAS squadron commander and CO of Commandos, Jeff Sengelman as Special Operations Commander, invited a feminist academic to review the culture of both units. Why would he do that? Former CO of SASR, Rick Burr is Chief of the Army and has done nothing to stop the persecution of his former soldiers. Former SAS squadron commander Angus Campbell is now Chief of the Defence Force and is leading the persecution of his former soldiers. And let’s not forget, former CO of SASR, Duncan Lewis as head of ASIO, was partial to blasphemy laws for M*sl*ms and recommended that we needed more M*sl*m immigration so he would have more informants!

    Worse than useless, the lot of them.

  60. kaysee

    Parents playing around with the lives of their children.

    New Documentary On ‘Transkids’ Accidentally Tells Disturbing Truth (12:48)

  61. Mater

    If a bravery medal was earned around the time that soldier committed a “war crime” and if it was related to the recommendation then it should be re-considered after any conviction. I emphasise conviction and after any appeals. However if the bravery medal was awarded for a totally unrated encounter then should stand,

    Not necessarily, IMHO.
    I caveat this comment by saying IF the cases are proved.
    In this case, the individual recommending and the witnesses of said awards should be compared against those found wanting (again, if that happens).

    If such individuals were capable of lying about and covering up such actions, it would seem to me that they would capable of other feats of dishonesty, including embellishment of award recommendations. Everything they’ve signed their name to comes into question, be it directly related to the acts in question, or otherwise.

    Just my opinion from a purely hypothetical perspective.

    I get the feeling a fine tooth comb might be run over ALL awards from that period.

  62. johanna

    Imagine if you joined the ADF 20+ years ago under the illusion that you were joining the military. Now, you find yourself in an organisation driven by divisive identity and ‘woke’ politics, where being a soldier, sailor or airman is secondary to ticking boxes created by people who are using the ADF as a leftist social experiment.

    Our allegedly ‘conservative’ political leaders are doing nothing to stop the rot – indeed, they are up to their necks in it.

    We are probably more likely to be taken over by economic, political and social subversion anyway – no need to try to invade. But the destruction of the military is a handy card to have, as they do input into decisions about national security.

  63. Bruce of Newcastle

    All four fledglings, definite teenagers

    Small win at Cafe Bruce has been the latest batch of noisy miner kids. Two of them – they were deposited on the hard cold ground some weeks ago when a storm destroyed their nest. My neighbour rescued one and I the other, they could barely cling onto a branch but held their own in a bottlebrush bush. The family fed them and fed them and fed them (mainly spiders, wasps and bits of Coles bread). I picked them up off the ground several times.

    So this week they fledged. Like veteran pilots they’re now going from tree to tree with family members following them and feeding them bread bits and unfortunate insects. I am chuffed.

  64. Roger

    I get the feeling a fine tooth comb might be run over ALL awards from that period.

    Let’s start with the top brass.

  65. Mater

    Let’s start with the top brass.

    I could not agree more, Roger.

  66. Dot

    The raison d’etre of the military is to kill our foreign enemies.

    Everything else is mission creep, failure or both, erring on failure.

  67. Top Ender

    I’ll give this one a run again…

    A Defence Force slowly dying

    Top Ender
    The Spectator

    13 April 2019

    The Australian Defence Force is shooting itself in the foot over political correctness. But venturing opinions on PC is reminiscent of complaining in the old Soviet Union. It’s a glance over each shoulder before saying a word – to see if the Thought Police are listening; a ‘career-limiting move’.

    The recent announcements by both Air Force and Navy that they will consider ‘gender’ in offensive operations is merely the latest bit of virtue-signalling foolishness. Announcements such as ‘The Royal Australian Navy Deputy Fleet Commander has ordered that “all operations and exercises” be conducted with consideration of a “gender perspective”’ are ridiculous. For it’s obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge of military operations that there is always consideration of the target before offensive operations commence.

    I spent a while some years ago in Baghdad being shot at by various groups who hated us. We had large pieces of artillery linked up to radar which saw the rockets the second they launched. Did we indiscriminately fire back? We did not. We conducted an assessment – in a moment – of the target area where the enemy had launched from. If it was, as it often was, a primary school playground, or a hospital roof, we did not fire back. It was ever thus. Did the British use their nuclear weapons in the Falklands War? These recent announcements are merely a way to show how much in tune with the screaming minority ADF ‘leaders’ can be. But it’s not helping the armed forces – it’s damaging them.

    Anyone who’s served for years in the forces knows what it used to be like. Opinions were forthright, sometimes with salty language. But one of the best aspects was that it was a big family – and family fights are common. But it was shoulder to shoulder against the enemy. Serving in a combat zone with the ADF then made you realise how good they were: united with the best in Aussie ingenuity and mateship. That cohesion is disappearing.

    Political correctness is setting one member against another. A small coterie have determined to use PC agendas to advance their careers, a habit becoming all too common. One male general decided to wear women’s high heels so he could experience walking a woman’s mile.

    Their argument has often been that to meet recruiting targets the forces has to be ‘fully inclusive’ of the community. This is rubbish. Armed forces always have attracted a small part of the communities they represent: people who can cope with the physical and mental demands of deployment to harsh environments, where they will be subject to fierce mental and physical needs. You simply take anyone who can do the job.

    One irony of the present PC situation is that traditionally the armed forces have been the place where everyone was treated equally. It didn’t make any difference whether you were Aboriginal, Greek or short. You were expected to soldier. When society allowed females to be recruited, then they were gone after with enthusiasm. Why not expand your recruiting base by 50 per cent? But Western society then went too far: it insists that there is no difference between females and males in demanding trades such as the infantry – when there clearly is.

    Years ago, the Australian Defence Force Academy used to be one of the jewels in the Defence crown. It was everything you expected a university-level entrance to being a young officer to be. Squads of students marched everywhere, heads held high. No officer-instructor was safe from an ‘eyes right’ from the class and a salute from the squad leader. Even though the ranks held all sorts of multinational types: they’d all made the decision to serve their country.

    Now, insiders report this university campus is more interested in recruiting students from China and the Middle East; from countries that do not share Australian values – ironically against the ‘inclusion’ mentality of PC. Uniformed staff report habits such as spitting on the formerly sacrosanct grounds, or in the military-manned pools, is now normal. Civilian students talk in overseas languages, walking on the grass in whatever shoddy clothes they like, whilst young officers wear uniform and march on the pavement.

    The university has lost its way, coming to be disinterested in Defence and fascinated by the $32 billion international education market. The university is distancing itself from Defence in word and in deed. Where once the slogan was ‘The University of New South Wales at the Australian Defence Force Academy’, now it is ‘UNSW Canberra’.

    Outside, the PC madness continues. Recent obsessions include making all toilets on defence bases ‘gender-free’. This actually costs money, with buildings altered and new signage installed. The money of course, comes at the expense of military hardware, operations, and training. As do gender reassignment operations, and breast enlarging and reducing. Muslim advisors are needed; when for a hundred years we never had such people. Then again, nor did we have the ridiculous situation where the 40-year veteran at general rank does the same compulsory ‘awareness’ training in relation to suicide, or that you really shouldn’t use a Defence credit card for a holiday to Vanuatu – as one soldier did – as the newest recruit.

    We hear of bans on the wrong words, or badges, which might suggest that the business of Defence is to kill the enemy. I assume the RAAFs new C-27J ‘Spartan’ aircraft will have to change its name therefore, and the winged dagger of the SAS will be re-designed.

    The expense of all of this foolishness is the destruction of unit cohesion, with the force splintering into groups, with many resentful of what some get at the expense of others. Time was when essential words in the ADF were ‘teamwork’ and ‘leadership’. Now, to get promotion, or cushy jobs, such concepts matter much less. And so the all-important morale, what Napoleon said was the equivalent in power as three is to one, is cast aside.

    Most of the public are no fools. They see such attitudes are traitorous. Many see our country as being unable to fight if war comes: we will be too under-equipped, and too lacking in fierce warrior types. So when you want an aggressive focused leader like the American General Patton, or our own WWll Navy’s Harry Howden, or the Air Force’s Clive Caldwell, they will have been hounded out – and it will be too late to get them back.

  68. Top Ender

    I’ll give this one a run again…

    A Defence Force slowly dying

    Top Ender
    The Spectator

    13 April 2019

    The Australian Defence Force is shooting itself in the foot over political correctness. But venturing opinions on PC is reminiscent of complaining in the old Soviet Union. It’s a glance over each shoulder before saying a word – to see if the Thought Police are listening; a ‘career-limiting move’.

    The recent announcements by both Air Force and Navy that they will consider ‘gender’ in offensive operations is merely the latest bit of virtue-signalling foolishness. Announcements such as ‘The Royal Australian Navy Deputy Fleet Commander has ordered that “all operations and exercises” be conducted with consideration of a “gender perspective”’ are ridiculous. For it’s obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge of military operations that there is always consideration of the target before offensive operations commence.

    I spent a while some years ago in Baghdad being shot at by various groups who hated us. We had large pieces of artillery linked up to radar which saw the rockets the second they launched. Did we indiscriminately fire back? We did not. We conducted an assessment – in a moment – of the target area where the enemy had launched from. If it was, as it often was, a primary school playground, or a hospital roof, we did not fire back. It was ever thus. Did the British use their nuclear weapons in the Falklands War? These recent announcements are merely a way to show how much in tune with the screaming minority ADF ‘leaders’ can be. But it’s not helping the armed forces – it’s damaging them.

    Anyone who’s served for years in the forces knows what it used to be like. Opinions were forthright, sometimes with salty language. But one of the best aspects was that it was a big family – and family fights are common. But it was shoulder to shoulder against the enemy. Serving in a combat zone with the ADF then made you realise how good they were: united with the best in Aussie ingenuity and mateship. That cohesion is disappearing.

    Political correctness is setting one member against another. A small coterie have determined to use PC agendas to advance their careers, a habit becoming all too common. One male general decided to wear women’s high heels so he could experience walking a woman’s mile.

    Their argument has often been that to meet recruiting targets the forces has to be ‘fully inclusive’ of the community. This is rubbish. Armed forces always have attracted a small part of the communities they represent: people who can cope with the physical and mental demands of deployment to harsh environments, where they will be subject to fierce mental and physical needs. You simply take anyone who can do the job.

    One irony of the present PC situation is that traditionally the armed forces have been the place where everyone was treated equally. It didn’t make any difference whether you were Aboriginal, Greek or short. You were expected to soldier. When society allowed females to be recruited, then they were gone after with enthusiasm. Why not expand your recruiting base by 50 per cent? But Western society then went too far: it insists that there is no difference between females and males in demanding trades such as the infantry – when there clearly is.

    Years ago, the Australian Defence Force Academy used to be one of the jewels in the Defence crown. It was everything you expected a university-level entrance to being a young officer to be. Squads of students marched everywhere, heads held high. No officer-instructor was safe from an ‘eyes right’ from the class and a salute from the squad leader. Even though the ranks held all sorts of multinational types: they’d all made the decision to serve their country.

    Now, insiders report this university campus is more interested in recruiting students from China and the Middle East; from countries that do not share Australian values – ironically against the ‘inclusion’ mentality of PC. Uniformed staff report habits such as spitting on the formerly sacrosanct grounds, or in the military-manned pools, is now normal. Civilian students talk in overseas languages, walking on the grass in whatever shoddy clothes they like, whilst young officers wear uniform and march on the pavement.

    The university has lost its way, coming to be disinterested in Defence and fascinated by the $32 billion international education market. The university is distancing itself from Defence in word and in deed. Where once the slogan was ‘The University of New South Wales at the Australian Defence Force Academy’, now it is ‘UNSW Canberra’.

    Outside, the PC madness continues. Recent obsessions include making all toilets on defence bases ‘gender-free’. This actually costs money, with buildings altered and new signage installed. The money of course, comes at the expense of military hardware, operations, and training. As do gender reassignment operations, and breast enlarging and reducing. Mooslim advisors are needed; when for a hundred years we never had such people. Then again, nor did we have the ridiculous situation where the 40-year veteran at general rank does the same compulsory ‘awareness’ training in relation to suicide, or that you really shouldn’t use a Defence credit card for a holiday to Vanuatu – as one soldier did – as the newest recruit.

    We hear of bans on the wrong words, or badges, which might suggest that the business of Defence is to kill the enemy. I assume the RAAFs new C-27J ‘Spartan’ aircraft will have to change its name therefore, and the winged dagger of the SAS will be re-designed.

    The expense of all of this foolishness is the destruction of unit cohesion, with the force splintering into groups, with many resentful of what some get at the expense of others. Time was when essential words in the ADF were ‘teamwork’ and ‘leadership’. Now, to get promotion, or cushy jobs, such concepts matter much less. And so the all-important morale, what Napoleon said was the equivalent in power as three is to one, is cast aside.

    Most of the public are no fools. They see such attitudes are traitorous. Many see our country as being unable to fight if war comes: we will be too under-equipped, and too lacking in fierce warrior types. So when you want an aggressive focused leader like the American General Patton, or our own WWll Navy’s Harry Howden, or the Air Force’s Clive Caldwell, they will have been hounded out – and it will be too late to get them back.

  69. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Well done there with the fledglings saved, Bruce.

    By little things do we make our lives happier. Enjoying every day of it as we should.

  70. Old Lefty

    Maybe I’m slow on the uptake, but I have just noticed that the Coate inquiry into the Victorian quarantine bungle is to report on 21 December. Perfect timing for burying it?

    Of course it was only ever going to.ne a redwash to protect Andrews, just as the Gillard-McClellan royal commission was only ever going to be a redwash to discredit a carefully selected group of institutions identified as enemies by the Socialist Left.

  71. Old Lefty

    The link being that Coate was on Gillard’s royal commission leading the charge against Pell. She goes back to the Monash University Labor Club.

  72. Top Ender

    The egotistical criminal Mehajer booted again:

    Disgraced former Auburn deputy mayor Salim Mehajer has been thrown back behind bars and will spend Christmas in jail.

    The controversial property developer will spend the festive season in prison on remand after a District Court judge revoked his bail on Friday over perverting the course of justice charges he was found guilty of in October.

    His father and one of his sisters watched on as he emptied his pockets, rapidly emailed important files from a laptop to his lawyers and was led away to the cells by court sheriffs.

    It marks the latest chapter in the spectacular downfall of Mehajer from a colourful deputy mayor to a convicted criminal who has spent recent years in and out of jail.

    Mehajer had been found guilty of two counts of perverting the course of justice and one of making a false statement under oath at a judge-alone trial in October and has spent the last two months waiting to learn his fate.

    District Court judge Peter Zahra described that period as “shambolic” as the court was told Mehajer’s legal aid was recently cancelled and he no longer had a solicitor.

    The court heard Mehajer was in a dispute with his legal representatives after paying them an extra $10,000 above what legal aid had granted him.

    Both the Crown and his barrister Ertunc Ozen SC told the court on Friday that he will likely have to spend another stint in jail when his sentence is handed down next year.

    Mehajer was released last May after spending 11 months in prison on electoral fraud charges.

    Mr Ozen argued Mehajer was not a flight risk and needed to stay in the community to prepare for his sentencing next year.

    He told the court Mehajer paid his solicitors to arrange to see a psychologist but they had not transferred the money in time and left him without an appointment.

    “He will forfeit the surety (if he flees) he has a quarter of a million dollars riding on that,” he said.

    “Given the publicity this matter has received it would be difficult to engage in a deceptive practice.

    “He couldn’t be that naive that if he were minded to do this it would have any chance of success.

    “He has a record that probably everyone in Sydney knows.”

    Mehajer had also been listed on Friday to appear in a civil case against SC Lowy Primary Investments in the Supreme Court.

    Judge Zahra said Mehajer has a history of “manipulating the court” was a risk of committing more crimes because his current case occurred when he was on both bail and parole.

    He will return to the District Court next February for sentencing.

  73. Knuckle Dragger

    Signed the petition C.L. put up on the main page not long ago, and apropos of the abomination of a decision to strip decorations from units.

  74. areff

    Time to put a 200% tariff on shitty Chinese cars

    The latest LDV twin-cab 4WD ute, the T60, has received good reviews all over. At $29,000, I was tempted, but the stick of Xi has stayed my hand and cheque book.

    Seems to me it would be a good idea to draw up a list of Chinese-owned assets — companies, farms, dairies etc — and legislate to hold them for potential recompense for the lobster men, vinters etc who are out of pocket as a consequence of Beijing’s bullying.

    Meanwhile, next year will be lotsa fun: no foreign students, biggest export market closed, and the stumungous debts run up while the Chow Virus hanging over everything.

    Fortunately, we have the Man of Titanium to guide us.

  75. Rex Anger

    People are pointing out nobody has been convicted of anything yet but at the same time expecting or demanding senior officers resign. So if the “inquiry” is a witch hunt should we now have a witch hunt of senior officers ? Can’t have it both ways. By the time trials are finished I doubt Campbell will still be CDF but do we “convict” him now ?

    BrettW, you have missed a point by assuming there is a criminal case to answer.

    Even if, as freuently and incesntly ad salaciously alleged, here had been a truly superb effort to cover up dodgy activity by low-ranking NCOs for so long, enough detail would have got out by now that IGADF and ADFIS would have had actual scalps. Perhaps even as early as 2009-10.

    If it were real, people would already be in jail, and none of what we are seeing now would have happened.

    The rank and file, every officer below MAJGEN and the general public know when they are being dudded with show trials and executions. There has been a very steady stream of them since the Skype Scandal at ADFA in 2010. And even more outside the ADF, as Cats well know…

    The last time we saw a group of SOCOMD members being arbitrarily dismissed and having their careers murdered for political purposes was in 2012, after the ‘Jedi Council’ affair. A single pornographic email, sent by a civilian contractor with a record of breaching the Defence Email Codes of Conduct and Terms of Use, cost seven SASR and Commando officers their professional lives. Some reported the email up. One had never even opened the damned thing. But Dave Morrison and the Defence Department had to look ‘strong’ and ‘tough.’ It was another legalistic overreaction by a pack of peacetime generals and civilian bugmen more frightened of leftwit activists and the ABC, than of failing their charges.

    13 SASR Operators are now being sacrificed for the same reasons. Just as was 2 SQN and potentially the Meritorious Unit Citation will yet be. They are even guning for Ben Roberts-Smith’s VC, if I have read the media cues correctly…

    The Yamashita standard is being sneeringly invoked, by people who have seen straight through the posturing and institutional bastardry of the Defence Department and its uniformed, script-reading sock-puppets in the CA and CDF.

    Remember that the most senior Generalships (and Triservice equivalents) are all political appointments. I do not think a warrior has been appointed since the time of Peter Cosgrove.

    Certainly his successor, Kenneth Gillespie, was a fuckwit who embarrassed his old Royal Australian Engineers with his Beret Ban in 2010. He pissed off Armour, Infantry and everyone who was not SF (who were allegedly immune to skin cancers, unlike the rest of us Slouch Hat-eschewing oiks). The only decent thing David Morrison did as CA was to reinstate berets in 2012, but only after the embarrassing revelation that the report Kenny G had used to justify his beret ban never existed.

    David Morrison was a garrison infantryman, who was reputedly not well respected within the Royal Australian Regument, because of his carryon as a Company and then Battlion and then Brigade Commander in Townsville. However, Julia’s lot liked him, so CA he became.

    Angus Campbell no doubt had a decent career within Infantry and then SASR, but he likely came to the position because of a reputation for unquestioningly getting the bloody job done. He did well at Op. Sovereign Borders, so up he went.

    He is simply continuing to play out somebody else’s agenda. Some unelected amd unnacountble Bureaucrat arsehole (or pack of same) who hates soldiers, no doubt.

    But since the hive of scum and villainy remains inviolate and unburned, and officially ignored, we can only give our death stares and hard questions to their sockspeople. Generals Campbell and Burr.

  76. H B Bear

    I used to regard “seniors” and “parents with prams” parking spaces as merely suggestions.

  77. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From BrettW at 7:50 pm:

    “…

    People are pointing out nobody has been convicted of anything yet but at the same time expecting or demanding senior officers resign. So if the “inquiry” is a witch hunt should we now have a witch hunt of senior officers ? Can’t have it both ways. By the time trials are finished I doubt Campbell will still be CDF but do we “convict” him now ?”

    One can theorise all day long BrettW however these toy soldiers at the top have sat silent – Cosgrove included – while the hyenas have moved in and roamed freely about, devouring the military at will. They deserve to lose their jobs today, before any legal mumbo jumbo gets going, for their enthusiastic betrayal of the men for whom they are responsible and for their failure to accept any responsibility for anything.

    Call that a “witch hunt”, call it what you like but it is dead set wrong.

    “aren’t Generals who have served in or commanded the SAS a good thing ?”

    Clearly not, especially those who swanned around the diplomatic cocktail circuit near their command headquarters in Cairo or Paris or wherever they were safely tucked away while icky, horrid war things were happening a thousand miles away.

  78. calli

    I’d never park in a “Seniors” spot.

    People might think I was old! 😀

  79. Ƶĩppʯ (President Elect)

    interesting news about apple

  80. Tel

    They deserve to lose their jobs today, before any legal mumbo jumbo gets going, for their enthusiastic betrayal of the men for whom they are responsible and for their failure to accept any responsibility for anything.

    Mick, I’ve disagreed with you on a lot of things, but that point is absolutely correct.

    Australia has excellent natural resources, quite a lot of talent, diversity of perspectives, and no shortage of determination and ingenuity. We have always been let down by poor leadership, and in some cases I guess there were a bunch of different reasons … but all things considered the biggest problem is people who happily accept the perks of having power over others, while also abdicating the gravity and responsibility of their position. Risk should be linked to potential reward … and also rewards should imply accepting some of the risk.

  81. Arky

    Everyone who has had anything to do with army knows you are there at their convenience, not yours.
    It’s shit, but it’s reality.
    Do your job, do it well, then get shafted, and there are twenty other blokes lining up for it after you have been disposed of.
    Stupid to expect anything else, really.
    Officers who stay around are by definition careerists.
    Wouldn’t have missed out on my time doing it (part time) for anything in the world, even if I didn’t get what I personally hoped to get out of it.

  82. Tel

    He is simply continuing to play out somebody else’s agenda. Some unelected amd unnacountble Bureaucrat arsehole (or pack of same) who hates soldiers, no doubt.

    But since the hive of scum and villainy remains inviolate and unburned, and officially ignored, we can only give our death stares and hard questions to their sockspeople. Generals Campbell and Burr.

    And if those guys knew there backsides were hanging in limbo, they would either be more willing to front up in a court of law and explain exactly what happened with said “unelected Bureaucrat arsehole” or else they would be cautious about following any instructions that do not have a very clear and documented pathway back to Parliament. Bribery with promotions and head-pats is no different to bribery with cash in the pocket … we want promotion based on competence and good character … not based on loyalty to person or persons unknown.

  83. johanna

    kaysee, I do not click on links that have no explanation. Never. Life is too short.

    I know that this is your preferred mode of communication, but you lose me and no doubt others.

  84. Arky

    Kaysee’s links are good.

  85. vlad

    I can recommend Kaysee’s links.

  86. Rex Anger

    And if those guys knew there backsides were hanging in limbo, they would either be more willing to front up in a court of law and explain exactly what happened with said “unelected Bureaucrat arsehole” or else they would be cautious about following any instructions that do not have a very clear and documented pathway back to Parliament.

    Yep. The bugmen protect their own. At least until they too are deemed ‘undesirable.’

    … we want promotion based on competence and good character … not based on loyalty to person or persons unknown.

    + Eleventy

    In the vast majority of cases in the ranks up to Major, that is exactly what happens.

    Or the good ones find themselves somewhere new and interesting to be by Corps or Trade Transferring, applying for SF, etc.

    It is very rare to find a digger or NCO or even junior officer bounced up because somone liked the…

  87. vlad

    Life is too short not to click on Kaysee’s links.

  88. Bruce of Newcastle

    Life is too short not to click on Kaysee’s links.

    The first one is especially good. 😀

  89. Old School Conservative

    kaysee, I do not click on links that have no explanation.

    IIRC she explained from the beginning that her links were to jokes.
    Being doing it for long enough now to remove the need for further explanation.
    It’s like reading a real book.

  90. Rockdoctor

    Evening.

    indicate water temperatures off north-eastern Australia will be above average in December and January.

    Yup you get that in a La Nina year. As a weather enthusiast but layman, I used to prefer La Nina as they had less monster Cyclones than El Nino years where the sea had time to stew in the sun.

    Yasi excepted as it was an Atlantic style Hurricane storm unusual to the Coral Sea.

  91. Mark A

    Old School Conservative
    #3673229, posted on November 27, 2020 at 9:44 pm

    It’s like reading a real book.

    Read a book once, green it was.

  92. C.L.

    Ad for men’s Remington razors just seen on tele showed a young bloke shaving his chest hair.

    Seriously.

  93. vlad

    The latest abomination from Australia’s worst ever premier – bar none – is a bill that would (it says this explicitly) outlaw exorcisms in certain circumstances and voluntary psychological treatments.

    If you’re gay or trans or whatever and for whatever reason you decide you don’t want to be and want professional help to meet that goal, Dan says you have to stay what you are.

    The exorcism ban is scarier. Happily it will be ignored where necessary, as exorcists won’t be cowed by Dan Andrews, that’s for sure.

  94. Gab

    Thank you, C.L. Always the gentleman.

  95. C.L.

    For you, Gab – anything. 🙂

  96. MatrixTransform

    exorcisms are overrated

  97. DrBeauGan

    I’ve been exorcised, many times. It didn’t work.

  98. C.L.

    Re egg’s video (above) – “Birds of a Feather” (re Biden and Bergoglio on the Great Reset)…

    Yes. I see Francis has a new book out that argues TEH VIWUS means we must change the world entirely – especially in the realm of economics. He means socialism, basically.

  99. Ƶĩppʯ (President Elect)

    About fucking time!
    Foxconn begins Chinese decoupling
    Musk needs to follow suit, they only want his factory so they can steal his IP.

  100. Dot

    Banning exorcisms means nothing except the communists of the ALP are attacking the Catholics in and out of the party.

  101. Gab

    So much for their oft-mentioned ”separation of Church and State”.

  102. egg_

    The latest abomination from Australia’s worst ever premier – bar none – is a bill that would (it says this explicitly) outlaw exorcisms

    Self protection by Dan-of-the-undead?

  103. Ƶĩppʯ (President Elect)

    Makers 46 on the rocks. got a tooth extracted yesterday, not happy Jan

  104. Knuckle Dragger

    The commentary just now about ADF officers being promoted on merit to roundabout Major rank, and thereafter becoming suckholing contest winners strikes a chord, as does former SASR commanders becoming Head Sheds.

    There are dual parallels here, I believe, and both concern the jacks in various Australian states.

    In JackLand, if you want to be a honcho then it’s extremely beneficial to have spent some time in the ‘heavy’ squads. Neil Comrie in Vicpol stands out here – he was identified early on as a prospect to be a highly paid wanker and was consequently parachuted into the Armed Robbery Squad, where other actual working detectives spend years trying to get to.

    Word is, Comrie was put in a corner and told to shut his trap until his time was up – and then he went on to his next CV building role.

    I have zero experience in SASR matters (or other SF for that matter) but from looking at the recent performances of these ADF cretins, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to find certain people (not all) were similarly ‘chuted in to these units, and out again as soon as practicable. Just for cred, when they apply in later years for these roles.

    In JackLand, once you get to a certain rank you stop being a jack and start being a ‘manager’, or worse – a politician. It would be a damn shame if this was proven to be the case with our military.

  105. min

    Wondered where Leak had been. He has become the daddy of twins aboy and girl .

  106. MatrixTransform

    after Grill’d debacle I went to the sushi joint a few shops up.
    got a few prawn katsu.
    squatted on the floor of the shopping centre
    because seating will kill the nanna’s

    the funny thing is … I wasn’t the only person squatting there and eating like a dog off the floor

    fecking retarded

  107. DrBeauGan

    So much for their oft-mentioned ”separation of Church and State”.

    Expect it to get worse. Much worse.

  108. Dot

    That’s some crazy shit Zippy.

    These NRL blokes should just fuck hookers.

  109. MatrixTransform

    Makers 46 on the rocks.

    der .. what’s the problem?

  110. BrettW

    Rex and Jupes,
    I believe both of you are serving or ex ADF members and I totally understand your dislike of the whole inquiry.

    Years ago stories started to appear in the press about AWU union head ratbag Mike Williamson. I followed the news closely as early on I could see it involved very significant money over many years that he had ripped off. Approx $20m over nearly 20 years. Despite very detailed information in the press I think it was not until about two years later that police executed warrants. I think it was probably 4 years from time first mentioned until he pleaded guilty. Even then many of his crimes were not charged and it looks like there was a plea bargain as only $1m was mentioned in final offences. That was with plenty of documented evidence. Incidentally it was ridiculous to believe others high up were not aware as they would have noted strange transactions.

    The SF inquiry is very complex with many features that dont appear in normal criminal cases. Firstly, and this is very significant, the most important witnesses are going to be their own team members. If you portray this as a witch hunt then are you taking the view those witnesses are making allegations up ? I dont think they do it without very serious consideration as to the consequences. What makes them get to that point ? Whatever it was is not good from the SF point of view.

    Then you have the fact all the incidents took place years ago on foreign soil. There will be limited physical evidence such as autopsies, gun residue or even possibly the weapon used etc. Then you have the “integrity” of local civilian witnesses who may or may not be Taliban or their supporters. The inquiry showed that, in some cases, there had been interference by SF command to prevent outside investigations. Then you have the fact SAS operators are trained to resist questioning.

    We dont know how many were in the inquiry team as you will note all the assistants names are redacted. However we know they interviewed hundreds and in some cases for days (one said 2 days). I believe a couple of hundred responded to an initial request for information. What started off small clearly grew as time went by. The more SF guys talked the more the inquiry may have had to go back to look at incidents again.

    Also remember there were a number of incidents investigated that were unsubstantiated. Just as a matter of interest there are two incidents (I think in 2010) that are totally redacted with not one word mentioned about them. That is odd to say the least.

    Plus you have the fact they were considering accountability issues and having to look at whatever happened in previous investigations.

    My point is that if it took 4 years to get Mike Williamson then 4 years is not surprising in this case. Cant think of any Australian police investigation in last 20 years that comes close to how complex this one would be.

    The report gives us no idea of how much evidence there might be in each case that might go to court. Could be one team member or 2 or 3 going against alleged culprit.

    Jupes, I do assume there will be some cases to answer. If you can read that report and conclude no “crimes” took place then good for you. Keep in mind they have cleared some of the cases or said not enough evidence so we are presumably left with the worst cases with the most evidence. Even then how a civilian juror might look at the evidence (against a SAS member) might be different compared to a judge.

    Rex seems to think former SAS officers happy to persecute members from their own units. What were they supposed to do when soldiers from those units were stepping forwards with allegations, some on national TV? Do you just write off their stories about what they say were abuses ? I have seen a couple on TV and clearly something untoward happened as far as they are concerned.

    However having said that each trial is going to be unique as offers of immunity are involved and there is the angle that some of the stuff discovered cant be used at trial. Were suspects questioned under caution or did they have to respond simply because the regulations were that they should ? How that all works I dont know.

    “BrettW, you have missed a point by assuming there is a criminal case to answer.

    Even if, as freuently and incesntly ad salaciously alleged, here had been a truly superb effort to cover up dodgy activity by low-ranking NCOs for so long, enough detail would have got out by now that IGADF and ADFIS would have had actual scalps. Perhaps even as early as 2009-10”.

    “Former CO of SASR, Rick Burr is Chief of the Army and has done nothing to stop the persecution of his former soldiers. Former SAS squadron commander Angus Campbell is now Chief of the Defence Force and is leading the persecution of his former soldiers”.

  111. C.L.

    Wondered where Leak had been. He has become the daddy of twins aboy and girl .

    Nice. Lucky man.

  112. Knuckle Dragger

    It’s bullshit Dot.

    They need to adopt the Tiger Woods model. Pay someone $1.50 an hour to approach hot chicks in pubs on your behalf, and screen them for nuffiness before handing out directions to a rendezvous point. BYO coke.

    As it is, every skank looking for a payday is on the prowl for these blokes. Find your own money you greedy bitches.

  113. Dot

    False accusers must be zealously prosecuted to the full extent of the law, the harshest penalties must be sought.

  114. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Do you just write off their stories about what they say were abuses ? I have seen a couple on TV and clearly something untoward happened as far as they are concerned.’

    I’ll tell you what you don’t do. You don’t announce their guilt in front of the nation before due process has been completed, and you certainly don’t apologise to an entire country that prides itself on rooting boys and less advanced members of the animal kingdom.

    And nobody – no one ever – should take either still shots or footage in isolation as absolute proof of X, because there’s no context and absolutely none of the background and nuance that can only be obtained from detailed eyewitnesses.

  115. Dot

    Keanu is based and red pilled.

    He’s on TV ads for Cyberpunk 2077.

    That game is making game journalists (SJW weirdos who hate gamers, casual or hardcore) go apeshit.

  116. Dave in Marybrook

    Meh. I’m a twin, ie part thereof.
    Never seemed to make my dad especially enamoured of life.
    Mind you, he never got on particularly well with the firstborn either.

  117. Top Ender

    In JackLand, once you get to a certain rank you stop being a jack and start being a ‘manager’, or worse – a politician. It would be a damn shame if this was proven to be the case with our military.

    The old maxim in the ADF was that all colonel-rank equivalents across the services were politicians. (In naval ranks that’s four-ring captain and in air forces it’s group captain.)

  118. Knuckle Dragger

    Appalling over rates from the Australian bowlers.

    I reckon they might have played this match for free. Mucho fines for this sort of thing.

  119. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    This one’s for Top Ender – he’s posted the James Thurber parody about “If Grant had been drinking at Appomattox. ”

    There’s a very good biography of Robert E Lee, in Michael Korda’s book “Crowds of Glory” – it seems George Custer never stole the table the surrender was signed on at Appomattox, after all.

  120. Rex Anger

    @ KD and BrettW-

    On he subject of.meritorious promotion and senior, senior officers:

    To make SF in any fighting role, you need to pass the appropriate Selction and Cadre training. That.goes for the Special Ops Engineering Regiment, too.

    You are then (much like the wider Army), in a pool of like-minded individuals of generally broadly similar physical ability, skill and potential, with a limited number of Troop/Platon, then Company/Squadron andRegimental posts to fill. This pool gets gradually smaller as you go.up, unless/until you complete the Staff courses necessary for Major and LTCOL and up.

    Whether you land a Regimental CO gig, a staff billet or get out starts to very much depend on what courses you’ve dome, what experience youight have and whom you have networked with previously.

    The firther up you go, the less time and loyalty you have to your old unit and/or Corps. Ou are on the Staff now. And unless you are a senior posting wthin your Corps (e.g. Head Of Corps fo.Armour, Infanty, etc.), what the Staff wants is now priority if you wish to progress.

    If your former Regiment has been alleged to have done smeying nasty, then it may be personally distasteful and discomforting but your loyalty is first and foremost to the Staff.

    If the Staff and the Department it takes its orders from want a Regiment ornCorps or other organisation scrutinised, policy’d and procedure’d to death, then if you do not want a ‘Show Cause’ notice about or appointment, you comply. Else, you resign. No resignations noted.

    My biggest Red Flag over the whole matter is the mad rush to punish, publicly condemn and coercively ‘correct’ faults and arsehole soldiers. And Veterans and the families of the deceased. Over actions not even criminally investigated yet.

    As I said before, this is a pattern of unique political contrivance, that has been going on since I still wore a Black Beret in 2010. The ADFA cadet responsible was finally tried, convicted, discharged and jailed somewhere around 2012-13. But every serving ADF member since 2010 has been made to suffer the consequences of his actions alone. CDRE Bruce Kafer lost his job as Commandant ADFA, with the acquiesece of ADF Commanders, because the Staff was afraid of Steve Smith, that soldier-hating Union headkicker appointed to Defence Minister.

    I will not reiterate the Jedi Council Scandal again. But same thing. Insane rush to punish and ‘correct.’ At the cost if more lives and livelihoods.

    If something somehow makes it to Court, I will change my mind.

    But the entire pattern of leaks, ‘cultural’ observations, statements compelled under oath and/or duress, Administrative Action (if you have ever worked in the Public Servive anywhere, you will know exactly what abusive bosses can do with such actions to staff they dislike or do not want. You don’t need a clearly proven act of misconduct to arsehole someone as log as you have followed procedure. And unless you are sued or your victim goes to a Public Service Administrative Tribunal, you will never be made accountable) as a substitute for transparency, and triumphant/righteous initial media reporting screams that this is anything other than a proper and honest investigation of wrongdoing.

    I will reiterate that some of these allegations wth ‘credible’ evidence are between 8 and 15 years old. That has been more than enough time for a suitably zealous investigatory office to start digging about after ‘rumours.’ There was never any need to wait until said rumours were passed to sociologist Dr Samantha Crompvoets, who then wrote about them in 2015 or so. And then prompted another inquiry. Of which we have heard all the salacious details drip-fed to us by a ‘leaky’ Defence Department.

    TL;DR- BrettW, however you wish to approach these events, this is no way to approach something as significant as a warcrimes trial. The public have beem programmed to think that people are guilty without trials having even been arranged, and soldiers, sailors andairmen have been put in no doubt whatseover that their superiors and self-appointed ‘betters’ think they are tainted and suspicious.

    They also now know that nobody has their backs in the combat zone.

    As an act of public subversion and demoralisation, it is unrivalled.

    As an act of transparency and accountability, it is an utter catastrophe.

    And the silent majority is beginning to say so. Loudly.

  121. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Steve Smith, that soldier-hating Union headkicker appointed to Defence Minister.

    He was my local member at one stage. I’m only too proud to say I despised that douche nozzle, with every fiber of my being!

  122. C.L.

    Dear oh dear.

    And yet Andy Ngo calls him “she”.
    Why?

  123. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    George Pell ‘vulnerable, ­spied on’ in Vatican cash battle
    exclusive
    ByPaola Totaro andJohn Ferguson
    An hour ago November 27, 2020

    Opponents of Pope Francis’ push to clean up Vatican finances ­applied unprecedented psychological pressure and created a ­climate of fear in their attempt to stop George Pell and his allies ­investigating Swiss bank ­accounts which allegedly held more than $300m, according to a book chronicling events preceding the Australian cardinal’s downfall.

    Senior officials working for the Vatican’s financial oversight body set up to examine misconduct concluded one break-in at the ­organisation’s headquarters was meant as a warning, after little was stolen except documents relating to a murdered banker.

    Anxiety levels were so high that officials involved in the financial reform process felt “vulnerable, ­observed, spied on”, Italian journalist Gian Luigi Nuzzi — who has covered decades of financial intrigue in Rome — writes in The Vatican’s Black Book.

    “The theory that this was an ­intimidatory act was also ­accepted at the most senior levels when the news was relayed to the Pope and to Pell who had only been in his new post a couple of weeks,” Nuzzi writes in his book about the months after Cardinal Pell took over the role of reforming the Vatican’s finances in 2014.

    The internal workings of the Vatican have come under close scrutiny in recent months after Italian newspapers and The Times of London reported on the lavish lifestyles by high-ranking officials including Cardinal ­Giovanni Angelo Becciu, a well-known rival of Cardinal Pell.

    Cardinal Becciu, who was sacked earlier this year, has strongly denied those reports.

    Breaking, from the Oz.

  124. Thank you Kev. I shall inform my informant. In any event I can confirm that the check didn’t bounce 😉

    I generally love your work. What is your opinion and also your Battalion Association’s position on a member who publicly and wilfully conflates the Battle of Binh Ba with the massacre at Mai Lai?

    My own. I thought that what I have seen posted here by one of your own here in the last few days was disgusting and disgraceful.

    I’m sure you’ve had a long hard think about it. I’m seriously interested in your thoughts. At what point do you cut the seriously loose, loose?

    Back to Binh Ba

    At the bare minimum at least two “civilians” were killed during the battle of Binh Ba.

    The first was the resident CIA officer. The tracks of B Squadron, 3rd Cav were sent to rescue the mostly US civilians at the CORDS compound in Binh Ba.
    (Civil Operations and Revolutionary Development Support)

    Successfully rescued, on the way out the “civilian” in the Hawaiian Shirt was hanging out of the roof hatch of the M113, getting some, with a Swedish K, when he was unfortunately and fatally shot in the head.

    This is important to note.

    The occupation of Binh Ba by PAVN 33rd Regiment and elements of the VC D440 Battalion made no military sense whatsoever. Binh Ba was only 5 Kilometres from massive military resources the Task Force Base at Nui Dat could bring to bear on that town. It was barely an hours walk away for Johnno and his M60. Johnno and his mighty M60 of righteousness was actually the least of their problems. The Task Force could summon Air Strikes at will. Sensationally accurate RAAF helicopter gunship support was constantly available because of the close proximity to refuelling and rearming at Nui Dat or Vung Tau. At only 5,000 metres away the massed artillery at Nui Dat could put a 105mm round on a sheet of A4 paper, and they did. The whole exercise was absolutely doomed to failure. At Binh Ba the PAVN and VC were on a hiding to nothing. They were going to get flogged.

    Militarily, the only choice worse for the soldiery of 33 PAVN and D440 from doing what they exposed themselves to at Binh Ba was to form up in orderly lines at the gates of Nui Dat holding a great big banner saying “Please machinegun us all now.” At least at Binh Ba they got to duck, weave and hide among the shantys.

    In early June 1968 Binh Ba was selected to be occupied by elements of the NLA military dau tranh vu trang struggle by the “civilian” leaders of the political dau tranh chinh tri struggle. It was hoped that a massive military over-reaction by the Australians would consequently result in massive civilian casualties and turn the populace of Binh Ba against the SVN government.

    The restraint of the Australian reaction and the subsequent Australian sapper effort to make good the damage in the following months actually had the opposite outcome. Which is why the Battle of Binh Ba does not feature heavily in the official NLA history…

    Another reason why it is not a highlight in the NLA history books is because of another “civilian” casualty.
    Once the tracks and tanks turned up, the leader of the VC cadre, who had made the political decision to instigate the battle in that place, decided that it was time to leave town. His choice of getaway vehicle was probably a poor one. On the way out his Citroen 2CV met an Australian Centurion Tank. No ammunition was wasted. The tank rolled over it and did a little bit of a left track – right track grind over the wreckage. Unfortunately when the stain in the road was examined after the shooting had stopped, it was determined that the incident had resulted in fatalities.

    These two casualty examples, do illustrate the fact that in any war there are civilians and then there are “civilians” Also, the fact even in the worst of battles, justice can sometimes can be poetic…

    In my view, the most controversial aspect of the Battle of Binh Ba is not the fact that there were civilian casualties. A situation categorically impossible to eliminate should your enemy make the political choice to fight where their own people live. (Binh Ba, wasn’t the first time the NLA decided to make political points in populated areas. The ambush that resulted in the death of Cpl Ian Brown in Hoa Long 21 June 1966, was the first.)

    The most controversial aspect of Binh Ba was actually the denial by 1ATF to UK boffins to inspect the Centurions that had been hit by RPG fire during that battle. In 1968 the Centurion was the UK Main Battle Tank facing down the Soviet hordes in Europe. Binh Ba was the first time that a Centurion had sustained fire from the most numerous Warsaw Pact anti-tank weapon – the RPG. The poms really needed the technical analysis but the Aussies said no. Really inexplicable given the close defence co-operation between the UK and ANZAC’s at that time. I’ve never been able to figure out why.

  125. Rex Anger

    @ Prismatic-

    The most controversial aspect of Binh Ba was actually the denial by 1ATF to UK boffins to inspect the Centurions that had been hit by RPG fire during that battle. In 1968 the Centurion was the UK Main Battle Tank facing down the Soviet hordes in Europe. Binh Ba was the first time that a Centurion had sustained fire from the most numerous Warsaw Pact anti-tank weapon – the RPG. The poms really needed the technical analysis but the Aussies said no. Really inexplicable given the close defence co-operation between the UK and ANZAC’s at that time. I’ve never been able to figure out why.

    Knowing that the Cent Mk5/1 was allergic to RPG-7s probably didn’t help matters. Bruce Cameron of the 1 ARMD Regiment Association (whom I sadly only know by his postings elsewhere and his book) would probably know better.

    As far as I know, he spent a lot of time trying to get even the AWM to acknowledge that the Cent could take RPG-2 hits, but not RPG-7s as their display information claimee. I think he gave up in annoyance…

    In the end, Coral-Balmoral probably provided far more useful data on RPG and RCL hits amd survivability…

  126. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    I generally love your work. What is your opinion and also your Battalion Association’s position on a member who publicly and wilfully conflates the Battle of Binh Ba with the massacre at Mai Lai?

    Prismatic, if I may, your thoughts on a National Serviceman who may, or may not have had the option of six years service in a “special conditions” unit of the Citizens Military Forces, and may, or may not have had the option of not being posted to the “fun factory?”

  127. jupes

    My point is that if it took 4 years to get Mike Williamson then 4 years is not surprising in this case. Cant think of any Australian police investigation in last 20 years that comes close to how complex this one would be.

    My point is that the whole fucking thing is a waste of time and money. Nothing good can or will come out of it. We have already seen just how destructive it is.

    I don’t give a fuck if Afghan fighting age males sometimes refered to as “civilians” were killed. That is what the diggers were there to do. Investigating them for years, then prosecuting them is morally wrong.

  128. Rex Anger

    Furious agreement from this Anger, Jupes…

  129. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    What jupes said.

  130. Prismatic, if I may, your thoughts on a National Serviceman who may, or may not have had the option of six years service in a “special conditions” unit of the Citizens Military Forces, and may, or may not have had the option of not being posted to the “fun factory?”

    Not sure what you want from me on the various ways that Vietnam service as a National Serviceman could have been swerved. There were many. Particularly if you were a trained school teacher. Given the high demand for those quality applicants to train the Pacific Islands Regiment.

    The final word on this probably belongs to the scholarship of Ben Morris and Noah Riseman. “Volunteers with a legal impediment: Australian national service and the question of overseas service in Vietnam” Published last year. I have seen that this work selectively quoted on this very forum recently.

    The first thing to understand is that Ben Morris states categorically that “one myth is that national service meant automatically being sent to Vietnam, when in reality only 17,424 of the approximately 63,000 men drafted for national service in the period from 1965 to 1972 were deployed.”

    That established, Ben Morris makes the point early that “while one cannot say that all national servicemen freely volunteered to go to Vietnam, neither can one say that they were all compelled.”

    Avoiding active service in Vietnam was the easiest thing to do, for two out of three people called up for National Service. That was the reality in the 1960’s and nothing has changed since then. The point that Morris and Riseman completely miss was that of the 30% of National Servicemen who did serve in Vietnam, many were actually volunteers for National Service.

    Some of those National Service volunteers have been previously canvassed at this place. They include:

    Gilbert Green
    Ian Cavanaugh
    Oh damn. Forgotten his name. The bloke with the eyeglasses. Larson? Anyway the “author” Frank Walker made a big deal about it and tripped over his dick on that one.

    The whole race to get the ultimate thesis published on Vietnam Conscription has been run and won. It’s too late. It’s already been done. Ben Morris and Noah Riseman did it last year.

    It’s done it’s dusted. It’s busted. Quality work. There’s a few things I’d quibble around the edges about and a few things that I’d outright dispute. That’s to be expected. Overall; Morris and Riseman – excellent scholarship. Undisputed. Too late for some. How sad.

    Ben Morris was fair scholar.

    But, by his own admission he was a damaged person.

    Ben Morris was a platoon Commander who verballed his 2RAR Company Commander Peter White with respect to “throw down weapons” in 2014 – 47 years after the fact. That was low. Very low.

    Make your own enquiries. Use your lived experience. Was it likely that anyone would carry an extra 4Kg of AK47 just on the off chance that you might accidently brass up some civilians and need an excuse? In any event it was war and a coronial enquiry was not in the offing? I’d appreciate your input.

    The reason why I ask is that in the Brereton report, White’s 2RAR accidental contact was offered as prima facie evidence that the use of “throw down weapons” was an established practice since the 1960’s in Vietnam.

    I know that not to be true.

    What have you got?

  131. 2dogs

    And yet Andy Ngo calls him “she”.
    Why?

    He is not going to give his opponents anything they would use to justify their violence against him.

  132. Dot

    It’s “complex” because there is no real evidence.

    Eyewitnesses to murder and no one is being questioned under caution at an AFP facility?

    Get outta here!

  133. Dot

    Kitchener went down with a lot of seamen.

    If you’re one of his descendants, come at me bro!

  134. The point that Morris and Riseman completely miss was that of the 30% of National Servicemen who did serve in Vietnam, many were actually volunteers for National Service.

    Because they didn’t look at it.
    Having said that, Ben Morris didn’t miss much. He was one of our most accomplished oral historians.
    He was also a man on a mission – to set the record straight.
    The “many” estimate is doubtful. It’s looking more like 15%. Identifying them is difficult.
    Many who weren’t volunteers, say they were – which becomes obvious when you check birthdates.
    Some who did volunteer keep that decision hidden for all kinds of reasons. Motives are fascinating.

    There are two opposing myths.
    The first is that every national serviceman who went to Vietnam was a volunteer.
    That was written as history in material used by schools.
    It has by now (and fairly recently) been thoroughly debunked by Dapin et al.

    The second myth is that all Nashos were forced to deploy to Vietnam.
    That is also mythology.
    What remains to be discovered is what choices they were given, and in what circumstances, always remembering that any commander actually giving them choices would have been in breach of the NS act.
    This was why the Stan Larsson case was pursued by Peacock.

    The deeper you dig, the more interesting it becomes.
    For example, the “join the CMF and no worries” story is replete with mythology.
    There’s still a long way to go…

  135. Dot

    Look Numbers, you write an awful lot and I will be an honest broker.

    Back some of that up with citations and I will ease up and even apologise to you.

  136. Tel

    I don’t give a fuck if Afghan fighting age males sometimes refered to as “civilians” were killed. That is what the diggers were there to do. Investigating them for years, then prosecuting them is morally wrong.

    Jupes, you have to come to grips with the idea that the purpose of the Afghan War is to soak up time and resources, grant supposedly exceptional “War Powers” to the political class on a permanent basis, and maintain a substantial budget stream (both legal via the tax system, and illegal via the drug trade on the side).

    None of the important people were ever intending to win this thing. Those diggers are there to march up and down doing patrols, so that reports come back, so public servants can be occupied Doing Something (TM) … and if anyone questions it they can jump up and point to those diggers and scream, “Support the troops! Shut up!!”

  137. Mater

    The deeper you dig, the more interesting it becomes.
    For example, the “join the CMF and no worries” story is replete with mythology.
    There’s still a long way to go…

    You’ve recently run the “I didn’t have that option” line of late.

    I think this post is more accurate:

    1735099
    #2986155, posted on April 12, 2019 at 4:14 pm

    As to answering your question, I wouldn’t have run the risk of being sent to the ‘fun factory” by exercising a perfectly legal option, doing six years part time, and not being conscripted in the first place.

    Unsurprisingly, very few took that option.
    Who would want to play weekend warriors for six years, when you had a 2 in 100 chance of the six years being completely unnecessary?
    The odds of being sent to Vietnam, in a combat posting, were even longer.
    In the end, you would have conscripted yourself.

    You ran the odds, and lost.

    Additionally, If you’d have sat down on the parade ground and refused to pick up a rifle, no body could have, or would have, forced you to go to Vietnam. The bonus of this being, your teaching career would have been safe. You’d fulfilled your obligation to turn up and sign on.

    Your service record would have been ugly, but that basically goes nowhere, and you don’t seem to care about it anyway.

  138. 1735099

    Back some of that up…

    Be patient.
    All in the fullness of time.
    There’s years of work to do.
    So far …so good.

  139. 1735099

    You ran the odds, and lost.

    Wrong.
    I ran the odds (after being ballotted in, when 11/12 of my age peers didn’t) and won.
    Bottom line is, I never had any choice about being in the army in the first place, and no real choice about deployment once in my unit.
    I came back, and 50 years on enjoy debunking the many myths extant about this episode.
    The CMF was never a real option.
    The enlistment rates into the CMF at the time reflect that.

  140. Kev

    Prisatic
    What is your opinion and also your Battalion Association’s position on a member who publicly and wilfully conflates the Battle of Binh Ba with the massacre at Mai Lai?
    The Association, and I’m on the executive, must remain apolitical although if I pointed it out to the others they would be disgusted. Personally, I can’t imagine what he was thinking when he wrote the words. If he penned the words in a frustrated rage based on the fact that no one is ever converted by his ridicule of almost everything decent men hold dear, then it’s stupid. If he penned them as a cold clear statement of belief, then despicable.

  141. Arky

    What?
    We’re reliving one silly git’s Vietnam experience again for the numpteenth thousandth time.
    Fuck me.
    Davidson, when are you going to flush this loser like every other site has years ago.
    For fuck’s sake.
    Enough is enough.

  142. Bruce of Newcastle

    TE – This is the old fred, try the new one here.

  143. Rex Anger

    Bottom line is, I never had any choice about being in the army in the first place, and no real choice about deployment once in my unit.
    .
    The CMF was never a real option.

    Of course you didn’t, Jack Hunt. That would have spoiled your whole dramatis personae, wouldn’t, it?
    You can’t be a poor, strapping victim of Bob Menzies’ anti-Comunist Roger-sausage if you chose a different branch of the Service or other means of discharging your National Service without overses deployment, can you?

    And you can’t look down haughtily upon all we lesser men and women who chose or chose not to serve their country, while hiding behind the ‘shield’ of your Returned Serviceman status (while const tly shitting all over it), if it turned out you actually had the same choices, but refused them because you were impulsive and stupid and throwing a big old tantrum at the time…

    I came back, and 50 years on enjoy debunking the many myths extant about this episode
    With your own Narrative and myths.

    Go away Jack Hunt. Even the Vietnamese agree the War is over.

    And practically their entire recorded history about their war is Propagandised myths.

    Anyway, if you get to live a little longer, you’ll get to see your Communist paradise visited upon this here Peoples’ Republic of Australia.

    You can revel in queueing forever for a slice of stale bread and a mouldy potato. You can celebrate seeing all your class enemies on your liet ‘disappeared.’ You can even join undesirables like me on the cattle train to the Gulags…

    So direct your bitter old cuss energy elsewhere for a time. Bread lines, non-existent poverty and 4AM NKVD raids await us! You wouldn’t want to miss that, would you Jack Hunt?

  144. Terry Pedersen

    I will be an honest broker

    Damn. Spilled my coffee.

  145. The Association, and I’m on the executive, must remain apolitical although if I pointed it out to the others they would be disgusted.

    I’ll leave this on the old Thread, Kev, because it’s intended for you.
    Let’s examine the issue of your assumption of the Association’s “disgust“ at a remark addressed to an abusive anonymous individual who basks in lying and smearing a member for effect. That remark, and hundreds of others similar have for a time now been appearing here. I have no problem with the routine abuse I receive here, and I’m happy to give as good as I get. It’s all part of the game. Holding opinions at variance to the majority who read this blog will always attract that. Lying about someone’s service is another matter entirely, and is indeed “disgusting”, especially when the person being smeared is an identifiable member.
    You frequent this site, and am aware enough of my service, to note his lies about it. Yet you let it through to the keeper. That says a great deal about your integrity, and the alleged apolitical stance that you claim within the association.
    I was an accidental and unwilling soldier, but once marched into 7 RAR developed a pride in the unit which I maintain, and many associations with men in my subunit that I value. Many others of us were also accidental soldiers, but we have as much right to be valued as career members. Sometimes I doubt whether some in the Association embrace all its membership, especially after my unsuccessful attempt to have one member honoured at his passing. At least he was honoured on my blog.
    Have a quiet think about the hats you wear and ensure that you keep them separate.

  146. Arky

    Holding opinions at variance to the majority who read this blog will always attract that.

    ..
    Not really.
    See https://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/11/27/help-stop-angus-campbells-plan-to-rat-on-afghanistan-heroes/#comments
    ..
    Notice I disagree with all the comments.
    But I’m not trolling and therefore there is an exchange of views, not abuse.
    You don’t cop it because you disagree. You cop it because you troll the blog.

  147. bespoke

    And yet Andy Ngo calls him “she”.
    Why?

    He has never claimed to be a social or economic conservative so no surprise.

  148. Rex Anger

    Sometimes I doubt whether some in the Association embrace all its membership…
    Have a quiet think about the hats you wear and ensure that you keep them separate.

    Get your hand off it, Jack Hunt. You’ll only forget yourself and UD in your own nest again…

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