Open Forum: November 28, 2020

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2,640 Responses to Open Forum: November 28, 2020

  1. It is just another ephemeral political stunt, that will just as quickly be forgotten by its instigators, perpetrators and beneficiaries alike. The serving and former-serving victims will not forget, nor those whose burden it will inevitably be to pick up the pieces and reforge the Army 5 years from now.

    It will not be forgotten by the families of 39 Afghans.
    Ever…

  2. Roger

    Check out the pics of Donnelly’s models.

    Well done.

    Would have been nice to know what scale they are in.

    Lady journalist evidently didn’t think to ask.

  3. Makka

    It will not be forgotten by the families of 39 Afghans.
    Ever…

    They should have thought about that before allowing their shithole country harbour terrorists and drug dealers then letting them thrive. No sympathy whatsoever for them or their country . A handful less moozlims to worry about is not a terrible outcome.

  4. Makka

    And before you rant on about your Nam experience ad-nauseam yet again numbnutz, I want hard men manning my Defense Force outposts at night. Not whingeing whiney turds like you.

  5. Boambee John

    If this Anger possessed the power, he would be culling from the top down, to ensure that FORCOMD was like SOCOMD, I.E. run by warriors and competents and adults. At every level.

    Very many years ago, a new GOC was appointed to whatever Forces Command was then called (possibly Field Force Command). He looked around his HQ staff, and decreed that too many were unfit. Each day would therefore start with a run, led by the GOC. Not too many days into this regime, while leading from the front, he collapsed and died from a heart attack. The next GOC might not have been so enthusiastic, but the dirt strip at Holsworthy was named for the deceased GOC.

    Reminds of a similar decree by Montgomery (the soldier, not the fat fascist fool) when he took over a new command in the UK in late 1940. His Chief MO advised that many of the staff officers could be killed by such a policy. Monty’s reaction? Better that they die in training than at a crucial moment during a battle.

  6. Dr Faustus

    The banks join volunteer religious educators in being banned from Comrade Andrews’ social engineering Wen’s:

    “Victorian students deserve high-quality financial literacy free from commercial interests — that’s why we’re banning financial institutions from delivering school banking programs,” Mr Merlino said in a statement.

    “The Victorian curriculum sets our expectations for financial literacy and that must be our focus,” Mr Merlino said.

    Nice Chinese men give very free money for all Victoria.
    Pay for road, not get road, consultant get paid, all OK.

  7. Entropy

    Makka
    #3674831, posted on November 29, 2020 at 3:09 pm
    And before you rant on about your Nam experience ad-nauseam yet again numbnutz, I want hard men manning my Defense Force outposts at night. Not whingeing whiney turds like you.

    quite effing so.

  8. Makka

    PM tells top brass to share the scandal blame
    Scott Morrison has warned the Chief of the Defence Force Angus Campbell that he expects senior officers to be held accountable for war crimes identified in the Brereton inquiry.

    Ever the windsock, Scummo is picking up on a lot of public blowback directed at the Inquiry and it’s gutless top brass for throwing the hard boys under the bus. Good but he needs to follow through to count the heads on the pikes.

  9. I want hard men manning my Defense Force outposts at night.

    These would be more your style.

  10. Makka

    These would be more your style.

    You’re such an old commo bore, numbnutz.

  11. Terry Pedersen

    Once the My Lai bad deeds became known it took only 18 months for the US to successfully prosecute the perpetrators. Given the amount of work that has already been done on the Australian SAS bad deeds it should be possible to bring the alleged offenders to justice here at least as quickly.

  12. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Once the My Lai bad deeds became known it took only 18 months for the US to successfully prosecute the perpetrators

    How long did it take to successfully prosecute the perpetrators of the Hue massacres of 1968?

  13. DrBeauGan

    ***In relation to behavior the nature vs nurture frame is hopelessly misleading***
    Why is that, Mitch?
    Can you explain your reasons for your claim?

    Nature versus nurture suggests that some of our behaviour is explained by biological mechanisms and some by social conditioning, or in a slightly more sophisticated version that we can give a percentage for each contribution, so some behaviour might be 70% nurture and 30% nature.

    This is not a sensible way to think of it, trying to determine the percentage involved in, say, your response to a painting is fatuous. Compare the attempt to apportion the percentage contribution of hardware versus software to the output of a computer program. The whole attempt to make such a determination is misconceived.

  14. Nick

    It will not be forgotten by the families of 39 Afghans.
    Ever…

    Didn’t you have a gun in Vietnam? What were you doing there, handing out lollies and flowers ?

  15. Once the My Lai bad deeds became known it took only 18 months for the US to successfully prosecute the perpetrators.

    Perpetrators?
    Calley was the only one convicted.
    His penalty for the slaughter of more than 500 people was three-and-a-half years under house arrest.
    He is 74 and lives in Atlanta.

  16. Bruce of Newcastle

    Numbers loses the argument.
    Godwin’s Law sonny.
    And it ain’t the Right which is saying 75 million Americans should be sent to re-education camps.

  17. bespoke

    Compare the attempt to apportion the percentage contribution of hardware versus software to the output of a computer program. The whole attempt to make such a determination is misconceived.

    Software gets developed to overcome faulty or limited hardware. Never the other way around. When new hardware is developed the proses is starts again.

    So your analogy isn’t straightforward, DrBG.

    A lot of neurological disorders can be managed (nurture/software).
    The discussion about nature vs nurture should always revolve around the individual nature of the person and there influences not about blanket assumptions of percentages.

  18. Top Ender

    To understand Calley and the My Lai situation is quite difficult. I will post some analysis.

  19. kaysee

    Yesterday I mentioned a gathering of ALL my grandkids in one place post lockdown ..

    shatterzzz,
    What a cute bunch. Spotted the identical twins in there.

  20. Dot

    Once the My Lai bad deeds became known it took only 18 months for the US to successfully prosecute the perpetrators. Given the amount of work that has already been done on the Australian SAS bad deeds it should be possible to bring the alleged offenders to justice here at least as quickly.

    Having no evidence is a tiny problem.

  21. Nick

    Lol

    ‘Unnecessarily provocative’: Dons backpedal after player pay email
    Essendon have been forced to backpedal after upsetting their players with an email on Friday night telling them the club was planning to withhold nine per cent of their wages this month.

  22. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘prosecute the perpetrators.’

    Seppo bullshit. What would Alan Alda say?

  23. Knuckle Dragger

    Unbelievable.

    The midget cheating ranga walked. He was out by two feet, but still.

  24. Nick

    Policies? Analysis by the media of appointments ? No, the media report about Biden’s pets

    A kitty in the White House as Bidens bring back pets
    After an absence of more than a decade, a cat is set to call the White House home.

  25. Terry Pedersen

    Yes, perhaps I should have left the “s” off “perpetrator”. The time it took to get to trial was the crux of my comment. Politicians and others here are talking 10 years.

  26. Top Ender

    The Calley massacre

    Lieutenant William Calley, the US Army 2nd Lieutenant officer who was held responsible for the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, put his experience into his own words after his trial. The account is significant.

    Calley’s troops were sniped at from Vietnamese villages, but they hardly made any contact with the enemy. They searched hamlets; found friendly villagers, but then found Vietcong flags. Calley was constantly asked what his unit’s body count was. They took reprisals for being sniped at, burning villages down. He interrogated civilians for the locations of the VC, and got nowhere.

    Calley took a VC prisoner; sent him to the military police, who got nothing out of him, and Calley took the same prisoner again three weeks later. On querying this with the MPs he was told: “…So why didn’t you go and shoot him? I can’t,” the MP said. “I’m at headquarters with the Geneva people on me.” The MP complained about having to house and feed prisoners, and accept their word that they were not VC. He finished up by advising Calley to shoot his prisoners if he didn’t want to see them released.

    This frustration was commented upon by Second Lieutenant Robert Ransom Jr, an infantry platoon commander in Vietnam. He noted that:

    …more than once we have captured or killed people with weapons whom we recognized as one of those smiling faces we had picked up and released earlier. It’s maddening because we know damn well that they’re dinks but we can’t do anything to them until we catch them with a weapon or actually shooting at us.

    Despite these sort of difficult situations for himself and his men, Calley did not execute “suspected VC” or civilians in the field. He says however, that: “Everyone said eliminate them. I never met someone who didn’t say it”. Then his troops lost a squad leader to a booby trap set in a village; killed an injured Vietnamese woman in reprisal, and then planned their response. According to the court-martial record, Captain Medina told the preliminary briefing that the women and children would be out of the hamlet and all they could expect to encounter would be the opposition. The soldiers were to explode brick homes, set fire to thatch homes, shoot livestock, poison wells, and destroy the enemy. The soldiers, approximately 75 in number, would be supported in their assault by gunship pilots.

    Medina later said he did not give any instructions as to what to do with women and children in the village. Some soldiers agreed with that recollection, others thought that he had ordered them to kill every person in the village. It does seem that Medina intentionally gave the impression that everyone in My Lai would be their enemy. As we have seen, women, children, and old people in Vietnam sometimes could be.

    On 16 March, 1968, when landing from helicopters, the troops took ground fire. They began killing civilians; at first one by one in different ways, and in different areas; then more, and then many together in a ravine. Several soldiers testified they killed the civilians: in one case the witness said he regarded them as Viet Cong, and added during testimony, that he still did. Calley was in tactical command on the spot, and it seems he took part in the shooting of around 500 civilians, executed by single shots; and bursts of automatic gunfire. By lunchtime, there was no-one left alive.

    With the operation over, Calley and his men returned to normal operations. In Calley’s account, there was developing a casual attitude towards death, and the general feeling was to

    …kill every man, woman and child in South Vietnam. GIs said to use napalm, or low-yield atomic bombs…or to line up along the China sea and say, “Prepare to shake hands with your ancestors. We are rolling through….a GI became a quick philosopher and would say, “God, if I go and kill everyone here, I could leave”.

    Some while later, after two of the men present had complained of the actions, Calley was transported back to the United States and tried. He was found guilty, and served a period – under three years – in an Army prison, and was then released. He is still alive, and works in his father’s jewelry business.

    During the trial, and after it, he received considerable support from around America, which included letters from numerous veterans. This was for a variety of reasons, perhaps partly because in Richard Holmes’ words, with the advent of television beaming the conflict into lounger-rooms “War has become moving wallpaper, and its familiar pattern no longer horrifies us” , but also because, in summing up many arguments, such procedures were acknowledged as being the norm. In His Own Story, Calley recounted that he had received around “5000” letters during the period of his trial. He listed some of the statements in which some recounted events similar to the massacre:

    I served in Korea from June 1953 to August 1954. I heard of many similar incidents.

    I’m a retired marine. I spent twenty years in the service of God and Country. I was in two operations in Korea where women and children were killed.

    In 1943, 1944, 1945, and 1946 I was a first lieutenant with 45th Infantry Division. I was witness to many incidents similar to the one you’re being held for.

    I served in combat in the German war. My fellow soldiers and I did on occasion kill enemy soldiers, civilians and children. Marquess of Queensbury rules do not prevail in war.

    During my duty in Africa we were under orders to shoot the Arabs to keep them from taking our clothes.

    I was given the order to seal a cave where a mother and her eleven or twelve children were holed up. This took place in 1944 on the island of Ie Shima.

    On Okinawa, I saw men throw grenades on old men and women, figuring what the hell – they’re the enemy…

    Many years ago I had a platoon, and we went through the villages as you and your people had to.

    Calley recounted that he was amazed that he had been charged when it was common practice to target civilians:

    I couldn’t understand it. An investigation of Mylai. Why not Operation Golden Fleece? Or Operation Norfolk? Or Operation Dragon Valley? Or why not Saigon itself? We had killed hundreds of men, women and children there in February and March, 1968: in Tet…simply read it in Stars and Stripes. Or the New York Times.

    His allegation that such massacres were carried out is supported by others. Cherokee Paul McDonald said of his Vietnam experience: “Both sides had their My Lais – ours were rare and highly publicized, theirs were continuous throughout the war and after and largely dismissed, ignored, defended, or rationalised by brave intellectuals.”

    David Hackworth, who commanded Tiger Force, although not in the period covered by The Toledo Blade, supported this scenario:

    “Vietnam was an atrocity from the get-go,” Hackworth said in a recent telephone interview. “It was that kind of war, a frontless war of great frustration. It was out of hand very early. There were hundreds of My Lais. You got your card punched by the numbers of bodies you counted.

    The US Army today refers to these incidents as “misconduct stress behaviour” and notes without ironical inflexion that: “…overstressed human beings with loaded weapons are inherently dangerous”. Its Handbook gives examples of such frustration in the field and also orders:

    Commission of murder and other atrocities against noncombatants must be reported as a war crime and punished if responsibility is established. This must be done even though we may pity the overstressed soldier as well as the victims.

    A central point of this work though is that if infantry are placed in a situation where civilians may be identified as combatants, then those soldiers will doubtless make mistakes and kill civilians who are not combatants. The politicians – and behind them the people – who make the decisions to send warriors into such situations need to accept their part of this responsibility. The worst consequences of these situations may be seen as we proceed.

    and from the end of that chapter:

    This is the nature of war, and trying to educate troops that it is not so, or it is not to be done, is pointless. In modern times, senior commanders will try and get things done the political way if they are so directed. If the politicians tell them to observe the rules of engagement and ensure their troopers cannot kill at will, then they will post soldiers on guard with unloaded weapons:

    Even though the members of the security detail on the Cole were at their posts on high alert – in an extremely dangerous port where they’d already been warned that a terrorist attack was highly probable – not one of their weapons had a round in the chamber….The Rules of Engagement had stated that our weapons were to have no rounds in the chamber.

    When rank rules, people say “Yes Sir” when they should say “no fucking way”. I wanted to instil a particular sort of insubordination, but don’t get me wrong – when I told the men to do something, I wanted it done. But I also wanted an atmosphere where no one would be afraid to sound off and speak the truth.

    The consequences of this are manifold. First, the cost to the soldier is often their life. That may be self-evident, but it is notable in many cases they are easily manipulated and coerced. Second, what of the cost to the morale of the troops forced into firing at targets which most people would identify – until they knew the reality – as non combatants. Third, what of the psychological effect on the troops.

    If infantry are placed in a situation where civilians may be identified as combatants, then those soldiers will doubtless make mistakes and kill civilians who are not combatants.

    If these soldiers are classically trained infantry it is difficult for them not to react the way they have trained: by pouring massive firepower into their target.

    If soldiers are placed in situations where they get shot at constantly and cannot effectively return fire, they will become frustrated, and as their friends are wounded and killed, they will naturally seek vengeance. These are soldiers, not automatons.

    It is easy and convenient to blame the soldier on the front line. However, in his situation, where his life is given to him by his reaction time, his situation is difficult, and unique. It is important to remember that much training of infantry and of armed forces in general accepts their use is to deliver maximum force, not, as police do, minimum force. If less than the maximum is wanted, then soldiers must be equipped with training and equipment to deliver that.

    The politicians, and behind them the people of a country, who make the decisions to send warriors into such situations need to accept their part of this responsibility. My Lai was inevitable, and it was not alone.

    Source: Lethality in Combat

  27. cohenite

    It will not be forgotten by the families of 39 Afghans.
    Ever…

    The old bastard troll is a traitor; believing RoP goat fuckers over Australians and before it’s been tested in court. In a just world the old treasonous bastard would catch the chunk virus and die.

  28. kaysee

    All the facts you need to know about GOODBYE GOOGLE

    Ready to say “Goodbye Google”? Find alternatives for email, browsers, search engines, and more.

  29. Terry Pedersen

    ‘prosecute the perpetrators.’

    Seppo bullshit. What would Alan Alda say?

    Just write “Alan the Alda”. He won’t notice the interrupted alliteration.

  30. Dot

    It depends if Alanaldabot was on either the “Maudlin” or “Irreverent” setting.

  31. Yes, perhaps I should have left the “s” off “perpetrator”. The time it took to get to trial was the crux of my comment. Politicians and others here are talking 10 years.

    Drawing the process out will simply destroy more people.
    If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well
    It were done quickly:

    (Macbeth: Act 1: Scene 7.)

  32. cohenite

    A Full-Auto Beltfed .22LR demonstrated by a gun nut; with big foot strolling in the back ground:

    https://www.facebook.com/TopShotDustin/videos/387432135912364

  33. believing RoP goat fuckers over Australians and before it’s been tested in court.

    The whistleblowers were Australians – members of the units involved.

    The RoP goat fuckers (as you call them) were the people Australians were deployed to protect.

  34. Nick

    The RoP goat fuckers (as you call them) were the people Australians were deployed to protect.

    What were you deployed to do to the people of Vietnam, Bob ?

  35. Top Ender

    The Calley massacre

    Lieutenant William Calley, the US Army 2nd Lieutenant officer who was held responsible for the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, put his experience into his own words after his trial. The account is significant.
    Calley’s troops were sniped at from Vietnamese villages, but they hardly made any contact with the enemy. They searched hamlets; found friendly villagers, but then found Vietcong flags. Calley was constantly asked what his unit’s body count was. They took reprisals for being sniped at, burning villages down. He interrogated civilians for the locations of the VC, and got nowhere.

    Calley took a VC prisoner; sent him to the military police, who got nothing out of him, and Calley took the same prisoner again three weeks later. On querying this with the MPs he was told: “…So why didn’t you go and shoot him? I can’t,” the MP said. “I’m at headquarters with the Geneva people on me.” The MP complained about having to house and feed prisoners, and accept their word that they were not VC. He finished up by advising Calley to shoot his prisoners if he didn’t want to see them released.

    This frustration was commented upon by Second Lieutenant Robert Ransom Jr, an infantry platoon commander in Vietnam. He noted that:

    …more than once we have captured or killed people with weapons whom we recognized as one of those smiling faces we had picked up and released earlier. It’s maddening because we know damn well that they’re dinks but we can’t do anything to them until we catch them with a weapon or actually shooting at us.

    Despite these sort of difficult situations for himself and his men, Calley did not execute “suspected VC” or civilians in the field. He says however, that: “Everyone said eliminate them. I never met someone who didn’t say it”. Then his troops lost a squad leader to a booby trap set in a village; killed an injured Vietnamese woman in reprisal, and then planned their response. According to the court-martial record, Captain Medina told the preliminary briefing that the women and children would be out of the hamlet and all they could expect to encounter would be the opposition. The soldiers were to explode brick homes, set fire to thatch homes, shoot livestock, poison wells, and destroy the enemy. The soldiers, approximately 75 in number, would be supported in their assault by gunship pilots.

    Medina later said he did not give any instructions as to what to do with women and children in the village. Some soldiers agreed with that recollection, others thought that he had ordered them to kill every person in the village. It does seem that Medina intentionally gave the impression that everyone in My Lai would be their enemy. As we have seen, women, children, and old people in Vietnam sometimes could be.

    On 16 March, 1968, when landing from helicopters, the troops took ground fire. They began killing civilians; at first one by one in different ways, and in different areas; then more, and then many together in a ravine. Several soldiers testified they killed the civilians: in one case the witness said he regarded them as Viet Cong, and added during testimony, that he still did. Calley was in tactical command on the spot, and it seems he took part in the shooting of around 500 civilians, executed by single shots; and bursts of automatic gunfire. By lunchtime, there was no-one left alive.

    With the operation over, Calley and his men returned to normal operations. In Calley’s account, there was developing a casual attitude towards death, and the general feeling was to

    …kill every man, woman and child in South Vietnam. GIs said to use napalm, or low-yield atomic bombs…or to line up along the China sea and say, “Prepare to shake hands with your ancestors. We are rolling through….a GI became a quick philosopher and would say, “God, if I go and kill everyone here, I could leave”.

    Some while later, after two of the men present had complained of the actions, Calley was transported back to the United States and tried. He was found guilty, and served a period – under three years – in an Army prison, and was then released. He is still alive, and works in his father’s jew elry business.

    During the trial, and after it, he received considerable support from around America, which included letters from numerous veterans. This was for a variety of reasons, perhaps partly because in Richard Holmes’ words, with the advent of television beaming the conflict into lounger-rooms “War has become moving wallpaper, and its familiar pattern no longer horrifies us” , but also because, in summing up many arguments, such procedures were acknowledged as being the norm. In His Own Story, Calley recounted that he had received around “5000” letters during the period of his trial. He listed some of the statements in which some recounted events similar to the massacre:

    I served in Korea from June 1953 to August 1954. I heard of many similar incidents.

    I’m a retired marine. I spent twenty years in the service of God and Country. I was in two operations in Korea where women and children were killed.

    In 1943, 1944, 1945, and 1946 I was a first lieutenant with 45th Infantry Division. I was witness to many incidents similar to the one you’re being held for.

    I served in combat in the German war. My fellow soldiers and I did on occasion kill enemy soldiers, civilians and children. Marquess of Queensbury rules do not prevail in war.

    During my duty in Africa we were under orders to shoot the Arabs to keep them from taking our clothes.
    I was given the order to seal a cave where a mother and her eleven or twelve children were holed up. This took place in 1944 on the island of Ie Shima.

    On Okinawa, I saw men throw grenades on old men and women, figuring what the hell – they’re the enemy…

    Many years ago I had a platoon, and we went through the villages as you and your people had to.
    Calley recounted that he was amazed that he had been charged when it was common practice to target civilians:

    I couldn’t understand it. An investigation of Mylai. Why not Operation Golden Fleece? Or Operation Norfolk? Or Operation Dragon Valley? Or why not Saigon itself? We had killed hundreds of men, women and children there in February and March, 1968: in Tet…simply read it in Stars and Stripes. Or the New York Times.

    His allegation that such massacres were carried out is supported by others. Cherokee Paul McDonald said of his Vietnam experience: “Both sides had their My Lais – ours were rare and highly publicized, theirs were continuous throughout the war and after and largely dismissed, ignored, defended, or rationalised by brave intellectuals.”

    David Hackworth, who commanded Tiger Force, although not in the period covered by The Toledo Blade, supported this scenario:

    “Vietnam was an atrocity from the get-go,” Hackworth said in a recent telephone interview. “It was that kind of war, a frontless war of great frustration. It was out of hand very early. There were hundreds of My Lais. You got your card punched by the numbers of bodies you counted.

    The US Army today refers to these incidents as “misconduct stress behaviour” and notes without ironical inflexion that: “…overstressed human beings with loaded weapons are inherently dangerous”. Its Handbook gives examples of such frustration in the field and also orders:

    Commission of murder and other atrocities against noncombatants must be reported as a war crime and punished if responsibility is established. This must be done even though we may pity the overstressed soldier as well as the victims.

    A central point of this work though is that if infantry are placed in a situation where civilians may be identified as combatants, then those soldiers will doubtless make mistakes and kill civilians who are not combatants. The politicians – and behind them the people – who make the decisions to send warriors into such situations need to accept their part of this responsibility. The worst consequences of these situations may be seen as we proceed.

    and from the end of that chapter:

    This is the nature of war, and trying to educate troops that it is not so, or it is not to be done, is pointless. In modern times, senior commanders will try and get things done the political way if they are so directed. If the politicians tell them to observe the rules of engagement and ensure their troopers cannot kill at will, then they will post soldiers on guard with unloaded weapons:

    Even though the members of the security detail on the Cole were at their posts on high alert – in an extremely dangerous port where they’d already been warned that a terrorist attack was highly probable – not one of their weapons had a round in the chamber….The Rules of Engagement had stated that our weapons were to have no rounds in the chamber.

    When rank rules, people say “Yes Sir” when they should say “no fucking way”. I wanted to instil a particular sort of insubordination, but don’t get me wrong – when I told the men to do something, I wanted it done. But I also wanted an atmosphere where no one would be afraid to sound off and speak the truth.

    The consequences of this are manifold. First, the cost to the soldier is often their life. That may be self-evident, but it is notable in many cases they are easily manipulated and coerced. Second, what of the cost to the morale of the troops forced into firing at targets which most people would identify – until they knew the reality – as non combatants. Third, what of the psychological effect on the troops.

    If infantry are placed in a situation where civilians may be identified as combatants, then those soldiers will doubtless make mistakes and kill civilians who are not combatants.

    If these soldiers are classically trained infantry it is difficult for them not to react the way they have trained: by pouring massive firepower into their target.

    If soldiers are placed in situations where they get shot at constantly and cannot effectively return fire, they will become frustrated, and as their friends are wounded and killed, they will naturally seek vengeance. These are soldiers, not automatons.

    It is easy and convenient to blame the soldier on the front line. However, in his situation, where his life is given to him by his reaction time, his situation is difficult, and unique. It is important to remember that much training of infantry and of armed forces in general accepts their use is to deliver maximum force, not, as police do, minimum force. If less than the maximum is wanted, then soldiers must be equipped with training and equipment to deliver that.

    The politicians, and behind them the people of a country, who make the decisions to send warriors into such situations need to accept their part of this responsibility. My Lai was inevitable, and it was not alone.

    Source: Lethality in Combat

  36. cohenite

    If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well
    It were done quickly:
    (Macbeth: Act 1: Scene 7.)

    What an ignorant, pretentious old bastard you are; you foul up the place with your gutless treason and then you misquote Shakespeare; Macbeth is planning a cowardly, treasonous act and decides on haste. On reflection it probably is appropriate since other old bastards in the upper echelons of the military are planning to betray their troops and want it done quickly to cover their own bony arses. In any event you’re a shit stain of a human.

  37. Dot

    Eyewitnesses to murders.

    Not a single arrest or indictment.

    2 – 5 more years of investigations.

    Does this pass the pub test? Does it pass the credulity test for anyone who is legally trained?

  38. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well
    It were done quickly:
    (Macbeth: Act 1: Scene 7.)’

    Perfectly quoted. It’s about treason.

  39. What were you deployed to do to the people of Vietnam, Bob ?

    You’d could ask Bob Menzies, but he’s dead.
    I think it was to keep the debil debil Commies out.
    You know, to tell them who they should support and how they should run their own country.
    He face planted on that one…

  40. Knuckle Dragger

    Snap, cohenite.

  41. Dot

    Anikin Skywalker was the Law and Order candidate.

    He just wanted a fair trial and presumption of innocence for the Chancellor.

  42. Dot

    Trump turns up to the CIA after the electoral college Meetup:

    Spooky kid: Master Trumpykins…

    Trumpykins: …primes lightsaber.

  43. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘What were you deployed to do to the people of Vietnam, Bob ?’

    Making the most of his white privilege, he had an old noggie woman on hand at all times to wipe his face for him, whereupon they would both silently ruminate on the broader issues surrounding the conflict he briefly attended to obtain later benefits – but in which he scarpered at the first opportunity leaving his ‘mates’ to do all the work.

    Then made sure he wouldn’t be sent back by putting a round through someone else’s tent.

    Stunning and brave.

  44. Knuckle Dragger

    Anakin was bullied as a callow youth.

    The rest of his life was just lashing out. Someone else’s fault.

  45. cohenite

    The RoP goat fuckers (as you call them) were the people Australians were deployed to protect.

    You walk around in a self generated pile of shit; as if that was the mission statement. Australia went to pig fucker country as a response to 9.11 and to head off the taliban mongrel dogs. Weasel words about introducing democracy to this hell hole and protect the locals were for domestic and UN consumption. Now the ADF heads are going to these same goat fuckers, requesting evidence (as they did with Pell) to prosecute their own soldiers; and apologising and offering money. The goat fuckers will be lining up.

    Seriously, FOAD.

  46. Top Ender

    The Calley massacre

    Lieutenant William Calley, the US Army 2nd Lieutenant officer who was held responsible for the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, put his experience into his own words after his trial. The account is significant.

    Calley’s troops were sniped at from Vietnamese villages, but they hardly made any contact with the enemy. They searched hamlets; found friendly villagers, but then found Vietcong flags. Calley was constantly asked what his unit’s body count was. They took reprisals for being sniped at, burning villages down. He interrogated civilians for the locations of the VC, and got nowhere.

    Calley took a VC prisoner; sent him to the military police, who got nothing out of him, and Calley took the same prisoner again three weeks later. On querying this with the MPs he was told: “…So why didn’t you go and shoot him? I can’t,” the MP said. “I’m at headquarters with the Geneva people on me.” The MP complained about having to house and feed prisoners, and accept their word that they were not VC. He finished up by advising Calley to shoot his prisoners if he didn’t want to see them released.

    This frustration was commented upon by Second Lieutenant Robert Ransom Jr, an infantry platoon commander in Vietnam. He noted that:

    …more than once we have captured or killed people with weapons whom we recognized as one of those smiling faces we had picked up and released earlier. It’s maddening because we know damn well that they’re dinks but we can’t do anything to them until we catch them with a weapon or actually shooting at us.

    Despite these sort of difficult situations for himself and his men, Calley did not execute “suspected VC” or civilians in the field. He says however, that: “Everyone said eliminate them. I never met someone who didn’t say it”. Then his troops lost a squad leader to a booby trap set in a village; killed an injured Vietnamese woman in reprisal, and then planned their response. According to the court-martial record, Captain Medina told the preliminary briefing that the women and children would be out of the hamlet and all they could expect to encounter would be the opposition. The soldiers were to explode brick homes, set fire to thatch homes, shoot livestock, poison wells, and destroy the enemy. The soldiers, approximately 75 in number, would be supported in their assault by gunship pilots.

    Medina later said he did not give any instructions as to what to do with women and children in the village. Some soldiers agreed with that recollection, others thought that he had ordered them to kill every person in the village. It does seem that Medina intentionally gave the impression that everyone in My Lai would be their enemy. As we have seen, women, children, and old people in Vietnam sometimes could be.

    On 16 March, 1968, when landing from helicopters, the troops took ground fire. They began killing civilians; at first one by one in different ways, and in different areas; then more, and then many together in a ravine. Several soldiers testified they killed the civilians: in one case the witness said he regarded them as Viet Cong, and added during testimony, that he still did. Calley was in tactical command on the spot, and it seems he took part in the shooting of around 500 civilians, executed by single shots; and bursts of automatic gunfire. By lunchtime, there was no-one left alive.

    With the operation over, Calley and his men returned to normal operations. In Calley’s account, there was developing a casual attitude towards death, and the general feeling was to

    …kill every man, woman and child in South Vietnam. GIs said to use napalm, or low-yield atomic bombs…or to line up along the China sea and say, “Prepare to shake hands with your ancestors. We are rolling through….a GI became a quick philosopher and would say, “God, if I go and kill everyone here, I could leave”.

    Some while later, after two of the men present had complained of the actions, Calley was transported back to the United States and tried. He was found guilty, and served a period – under three years – in an Army prison, and was then released. He is still alive, and works in his father’s jew elry business.

  47. Arky

    55. First, while it might be thought that the presence of intelligence, surveillance, and
    reconnaissance (ISR) assets, particularly in the air, would provide ongoing observation and imagery
    of events on target, the ISR was typically pushed ‘off target’ once the FE was there. Various
    legitimate reasons were given for why this was so. One – and perhaps the least persuasive – was so
    that others with access to the ISR would not be able to observe tactics, techniques and procedures.
    Others, which are entirely reasonable, were that once the FE was on target it was a better use of
    the ISR to monitor escape routes for potential ‘squirters’, and approaches for potential threats.
    However, the result was that the ISR did not provide visibility of what happened on target. The
    Inquiry has confirmed this in its review of many hours of Heron UAV [Unmanned Aerial Vehicle]
    imagery.

    ..
    Serious?
    You had the ability to monitor the fuckers, but never saw a goddamn thing?
    I suspect you really, really didn’t want to see.

  48. Dot

    “We see what we see but only when we wanna see it”

  49. Top Ender

    The Calley massacre

    Lieutenant William Calley, the US Army 2nd Lieutenant officer who was held responsible for the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, put his experience into his own words after his trial. The account is significant.

    Calley’s troops were sniped at from Vietnamese villages, but they hardly made any contact with the enemy. They searched hamlets; found friendly villagers, but then found Vietcong flags. Calley was constantly asked what his unit’s body count was. They took reprisals for being sniped at, burning villages down. He interrogated civilians for the locations of the VC, and got nowhere.

    Calley took a VC prisoner; sent him to the military police, who got nothing out of him, and Calley took the same prisoner again three weeks later. On querying this with the MPs he was told: “…So why didn’t you go and shoot him? I can’t,” the MP said. “I’m at headquarters with the Geneva people on me.” The MP complained about having to house and feed prisoners, and accept their word that they were not VC. He finished up by advising Calley to shoot his prisoners if he didn’t want to see them released.

    This frustration was commented upon by Second Lieutenant Robert Ransom Jr, an infantry platoon commander in Vietnam. He noted that:

    …more than once we have captured or killed people with weapons whom we recognized as one of those smiling faces we had picked up and released earlier. It’s maddening because we know damn well that they’re dinks but we can’t do anything to them until we catch them with a weapon or actually shooting at us.

    Despite these sort of difficult situations for himself and his men, Calley did not execute “suspected VC” or civilians in the field. He says however, that: “Everyone said eliminate them. I never met someone who didn’t say it”. Then his troops lost a squad leader to a booby trap set in a village; killed an injured Vietnamese woman in reprisal, and then planned their response. According to the court-martial record, Captain Medina told the preliminary briefing that the women and children would be out of the hamlet and all they could expect to encounter would be the opposition. The soldiers were to explode brick homes, set fire to thatch homes, shoot livestock, poison wells, and destroy the enemy. The soldiers, approximately 75 in number, would be supported in their assault by gunship pilots.

    Medina later said he did not give any instructions as to what to do with women and children in the village. Some soldiers agreed with that recollection, others thought that he had ordered them to kill every person in the village. It does seem that Medina intentionally gave the impression that everyone in My Lai would be their enemy. As we have seen, women, children, and old people in Vietnam sometimes could be.

    On 16 March, 1968, when landing from helicopters, the troops took ground fire. They began killing civilians; at first one by one in different ways, and in different areas; then more, and then many together in a ravine. Several soldiers testified they killed the civilians: in one case the witness said he regarded them as Viet Cong, and added during testimony, that he still did. Calley was in tactical command on the spot, and it seems he took part in the shooting of around 500 civilians, executed by single shots; and bursts of automatic gunfire. By lunchtime, there was no-one left alive.

    With the operation over, Calley and his men returned to normal operations. In Calley’s account, there was developing a casual attitude towards death, and the general feeling was to

    …kill every man, woman and child in South Vietnam. GIs said to use napalm, or low-yield atomic bombs…or to line up along the China sea and say, “Prepare to shake hands with your ancestors. We are rolling through….a GI became a quick philosopher and would say, “God, if I go and kill everyone here, I could leave”.

    Some while later, after two of the men present had complained of the actions, Calley was transported back to the United States and tried. He was found guilty, and served a period – under three years – in an Army prison, and was then released. He is still alive, and works in his father’s j e w elry business.

    During the trial, and after it, he received considerable support from around America, which included letters from numerous veterans. This was for a variety of reasons, perhaps partly because in Richard Holmes’ words, with the advent of television beaming the conflict into lounger-rooms “War has become moving wallpaper, and its familiar pattern no longer horrifies us” , but also because, in summing up many arguments, such procedures were acknowledged as being the norm. In His Own Story, Calley recounted that he had received around “5000” letters during the period of his trial. He listed some of the statements in which some recounted events similar to the massacre:

    I served in Korea from June 1953 to August 1954. I heard of many similar incidents.

    I’m a retired marine. I spent twenty years in the service of God and Country. I was in two operations in Korea where women and children were killed.

    In 1943, 1944, 1945, and 1946 I was a first lieutenant with 45th Infantry Division. I was witness to many incidents similar to the one you’re being held for.

    I served in combat in the German war. My fellow soldiers and I did on occasion kill enemy soldiers, civilians and children. Marquess of Queensbury rules do not prevail in war.

    During my duty in Africa we were under orders to shoot the Arabs to keep them from taking our clothes.

    I was given the order to seal a cave where a mother and her eleven or twelve children were holed up. This took place in 1944 on the island of Ie Shima.

    On Okinawa, I saw men throw grenades on old men and women, figuring what the hell – they’re the enemy…

    Many years ago I had a platoon, and we went through the villages as you and your people had to.
    Calley recounted that he was amazed that he had been charged when it was common practice to target civilians:

    I couldn’t understand it. An investigation of Mylai. Why not Operation Golden Fleece? Or Operation Norfolk? Or Operation Dragon Valley? Or why not Saigon itself? We had killed hundreds of men, women and children there in February and March, 1968: in Tet…simply read it in Stars and Stripes. Or the New York Times.

    His allegation that such massacres were carried out is supported by others. Cherokee Paul McDonald said of his Vietnam experience: “Both sides had their My Lais – ours were rare and highly publicized, theirs were continuous throughout the war and after and largely dismissed, ignored, defended, or rationalised by brave intellectuals.”

    David Hackworth, who commanded Tiger Force, although not in the period covered by The Toledo Blade, supported this scenario:

    “Vietnam was an atrocity from the get-go,” Hackworth said in a recent telephone interview. “It was that kind of war, a frontless war of great frustration. It was out of hand very early. There were hundreds of My Lais. You got your card punched by the numbers of bodies you counted.

    The US Army today refers to these incidents as “misconduct stress behaviour” and notes without ironical inflexion that: “…overstressed human beings with loaded weapons are inherently dangerous”. Its Handbook gives examples of such frustration in the field and also orders:

    Commission of murder and other atrocities against noncombatants must be reported as a war crime and punished if responsibility is established. This must be done even though we may pity the overstressed soldier as well as the victims.

    A central point of this work though is that if infantry are placed in a situation where civilians may be identified as combatants, then those soldiers will doubtless make mistakes and kill civilians who are not combatants. The politicians – and behind them the people – who make the decisions to send warriors into such situations need to accept their part of this responsibility. The worst consequences of these situations may be seen as we proceed.

    and from the end of that chapter:

    This is the nature of war, and trying to educate troops that it is not so, or it is not to be done, is pointless. In modern times, senior commanders will try and get things done the political way if they are so directed. If the politicians tell them to observe the rules of engagement and ensure their troopers cannot kill at will, then they will post soldiers on guard with unloaded weapons:

    Even though the members of the security detail on the Cole were at their posts on high alert – in an extremely dangerous port where they’d already been warned that a terrorist attack was highly probable – not one of their weapons had a round in the chamber….The Rules of Engagement had stated that our weapons were to have no rounds in the chamber.

    When rank rules, people say “Yes Sir” when they should say “no fucking way”. I wanted to instil a particular sort of insubordination, but don’t get me wrong – when I told the men to do something, I wanted it done. But I also wanted an atmosphere where no one would be afraid to sound off and speak the truth.

    The consequences of this are manifold. First, the cost to the soldier is often their life. That may be self-evident, but it is notable in many cases they are easily manipulated and coerced. Second, what of the cost to the morale of the troops forced into firing at targets which most people would identify – until they knew the reality – as non combatants. Third, what of the psychological effect on the troops.

    If infantry are placed in a situation where civilians may be identified as combatants, then those soldiers will doubtless make mistakes and kill civilians who are not combatants.

    If these soldiers are classically trained infantry it is difficult for them not to react the way they have trained: by pouring massive firepower into their target.

    If soldiers are placed in situations where they get shot at constantly and cannot effectively return fire, they will become frustrated, and as their friends are wounded and killed, they will naturally seek vengeance. These are soldiers, not automatons.

    It is easy and convenient to blame the soldier on the front line. However, in his situation, where his life is given to him by his reaction time, his situation is difficult, and unique. It is important to remember that much training of infantry and of armed forces in general accepts their use is to deliver maximum force, not, as police do, minimum force. If less than the maximum is wanted, then soldiers must be equipped with training and equipment to deliver that.

    The politicians, and behind them the people of a country, who make the decisions to send warriors into such situations need to accept their part of this responsibility. My Lai was inevitable, and it was not alone.

    Source: Lethality in Combat

  50. Knuckle Dragger

    I think I’ve got the passage from Liability Bob’s Book of Malleable Political Points here somewhere. Ah, yes:

    ‘Shortly after identifying the B52s bombing another country 150 miles away, I had a bit of a rest on my own. After all, it sat well with my major goal of getting home in one piece.

    ‘I awoke with nervous sweat coursing over me. I was, by any proper analysis, moist.

    ‘Suddenly an old Vietnamese woman, fresh from the paddy appeared, waiflike in the mist. She looked up at me silently, then produced a cloth I later discovered was a family heirloom. She said nothing, but wiped my face clean of my sweat. And my shame.

    ‘I asked her, looking at her weather-wizened visage: “You must have been in the sun for a very long time.”

    ‘She said, “I’m not a flamin’ pot plant.”‘

  51. Spurgeon Monkfish III

    Bluddee hell – there’s nothing like existing in an oven … 🤬

  52. C.L.

    Dot makes the killer point that’s being ignored by the likes of Andrew Bolt.

    Why aren’t all these SAS “murderers” already under arrest – indeed, remanded in custody as canny, dangerous flight risks?

  53. Knuckle Dragger

    “Both sides had their My Lais – ours were rare and highly publicized, theirs were continuous throughout the war and after and largely dismissed, ignored, defended, or rationalised by brave intellectuals.”

    Yup.

  54. cohenite

    Top Ender
    #3674943, posted on November 29, 2020 at 5:13 pm

    A very good account. Things like the troll, indeed, all the left, if they aren’t actively supporting the enemy, and many do, are supporting values which are so impractical, so self indulgent, that they are lethal to their armies and police, the very people who defend the system in which the left can peddle their self-indulgent clap-trap. The left are massive hypocrites and this persecution of army troops exemplifies that.

  55. Rockdoctor

    Bluddee hell – there’s nothing like existing in an oven … 🤬

    Same here in Hunter Valley and an annoying roaring gale. Dry change expected tonight sometime…

  56. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    “Both sides had their My Lais – ours were rare and highly publicized, theirs were continuous throughout the war and after and largely dismissed, ignored, defended, or rationalised by brave intellectuals.”

    Hue?

  57. Arky

    So, if I have this right:
    For at least some of the alleged incidents there were UAVs used.
    Investigators look at the footage.
    Watching the target as the patrol approaches.
    Then, cuts to looking off into the blue yonder.
    They ask why this is and there must be a bunch of procedures whereby the operator doesn’t watch the operation, but some points off in the distance in case some randos rock up out of nowhere.
    Fuck off.

  58. Rex Anger

    Why aren’t all these SAS “murderers” already under arrest – indeed, remanded in custody as canny, dangerous flight risks?

    And the best they’ve done is effectively throw out 13 operators who have been identified as ‘undesirable’ characters, based on alleged peripheral involvement.

    The whole debacle stinks harder, the more ‘administrative actioms’ are carried out in lieu of actual justice…

  59. jupes

    A central point of this work though is that if infantry are placed in a situation where civilians may be identified as combatants, then those soldiers will doubtless make mistakes and kill civilians who are not combatants. The politicians – and behind them the people – who make the decisions to send warriors into such situations need to accept their part of this responsibility.

    This.

    Excellent comment from an excellent book TE.

  60. Knuckle Dragger

    Smith, 100 from 62 deliveries.

    Great innings, the fucking cheat.

  61. Rex Anger

    They ask why this is and there must be a bunch of procedures whereby the operator doesn’t watch the operation, but some points off in the distance in case some randos rock up out of nowhere.

    I call bollocks, Arky.

    Nobody miraculously retasks a point surveillance tool at the instant your people conduct he hard knock. Unless it is about to fall out of the sky due to lack of fuel, or someoneis so deeply in the sht their death is imminent without the help.

    How the hell else do you note and track the squirters for your people to chase down?

    You have sniper and backup patrols providing persistent overwatch on all likely avenues of approach and escape. Standard procedure.

    But the flying ISR (UAV, Spectre or helo) gives you the instant commentary for the commanders on the ground, and allows the control and siuational awareness you might otherwise lack.

    Someone best get onto the Corps RSM for the Royal Australian Artillery- The Head Sheds have stolen all his units’ stores of whitewash, and are frantically dousimg themselves in it…

  62. Arky

    Rex Anger

    I don’t have the required experience to know if it makes sense or not, but to me it’s strange.

  63. MatrixTransform

    Macbeth is planning a cowardly, treasonous act and decides on haste

    no doubt he rang numpty first for advice

  64. Rex Anger

    I don’t have the required experience to know if it makes sense or not, but to me it’s strange.

    Even the dimmest dig picks up enough through osmosis to learn about basic military planning, the utility and employment of assets and resources, and how to appreciate a situation.

    That is why it feels strange. And I think your feeling is quite correct.

    I add in my wider readings on the subject, plus videos I have seen plus convos and other interactions with Afghan and Iraq vets, etc.

    It all paints a mightily weird picture against the claims Brereton et al have made. Which is why I called bullshit two weeks ago when the first threads appeared.

    This is is most heavily micromanaged and legalistic war yet conducted in Western military history. To say that there were breakdowns in oversight and surveillance onsite in order to localise and limit culpability to mere Patrol Commanders screams of dodgy conduct amd blame shifing.

  65. Arky

    Offering three or four bullshit excuses isn’t better than one bullshit excuse.
    It looks like you are looking for bullshit excuses.

  66. Ed Case

    The issue with Sapolsky saying Nature vs Nurture is an outdated idea and human behaviour
    is ‘complicated’, is that, apart from the Social Sciences, the argument is over.
    Separated Twin studies proved that, Nurture can’t trump Nature, and you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
    The apple also doesn’t fall far from the tree, being born in a stable doesn’t make you a horse, and if The Queen had balls, she”d be The King.
    A lefty Professor in California isn’t going to challenge the PC doctrines that have made the Universities and the Government Sector into gold mines, but he doesn’t get a pass to reanimate the corpse either.

  67. Knuckle Dragger

    4/398.

    By jiminy crikey.

  68. Arky

    Op sec is the worst excuse.
    You don’t want your UAV pilot watching infantry tactics?
    As if SAS have some special Karma Sutra moves that they can’t let on.
    Like a swirl with their palm, and George Kostanza’s going to screw it up if he uses it.
    Seriously, fuck off.

  69. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘The issue with Sapolsky saying Nature vs Nurture’

    If Trading Places has taught us anything, it’s that nurture beats nature, and also that strippers have hearts of gold, fantastic cans and will put out for a sob story.

  70. Knuckle Dragger

    Oops.

    4/389. Terrible by comparison.

  71. Albatross

    Ed Case
    #3674989, posted on November 29, 2020 at 6:30 pm

    Drivel, full of soaring generalisations and trite aphorisms. Give yourself an uppercut.

  72. Mitch M.

    Ed Case
    #3674989, posted on November 29, 2020 at 6:30 pm
    The issue with Sapolsky saying Nature vs Nurture is an outdated idea and human behaviour
    is ‘complicated’, is that, apart from the Social Sciences, the argument is over.
    Separated Twin studies proved that, Nurture can’t trump Nature, and you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

    Obviously you’ve never looked closely at separated twin studies and ignored the obvious fact that even for psychiatric conditions with a strong genetic component the rate is nowhere near 100%, closer to 50\50. There are plenty of critiques on twin studies that raise lots of interesting questions, not the least being that adoption agencies have very strict criteria for adoptees hence the twins are typically moving into remarkably similiar environments. Of course genes are important but it is also true that Nature cannot trump Nurture, just look at the famous Winter Famine and Romanian orphanage studies.

    The argument is over? What, you’ve decided the truth already have you? You’re qualified to make that judgement. Go and look at some GWAS studies, single gene effects often come in at less than 1%. On the other hand don’t bother, GWAS studies are ridiculous.

  73. Herodotus

    The evidence continues to pile up that Numbers is only here to degrade the site, which he is succeeding in doing.

  74. Herodotus

    He’s not the only one, but should be first in line to walk the plank.

  75. zyconoclast

    Breastfeeding charity sparks outrage by allowing men who identify as female to attend meetings for mothers struggling to feed their babies
    -La Leche League offer breastfeeding support to transgender women born male
    -Charity runs 80 local groups across Britain, said extending help to be inclusive
    -Chestfeeding term used to avoid offence to women who’ve transitioned to men

    from their home page

    We are committed to serving everyone – mothers, parents, families – in a way that is inclusive of all races, ethnicities, religions, sexes, national origins, ancestries, ages, marital statuses, physical or mental abilities, socio-economic statuses, political views, gender identities, sexual orientations, family structures, cultural values and beliefs.

  76. vlad

    Dave Prowse, star of A Clockwork Orange and Star Wars, has died aged 85.

  77. Some History

    We are committed to serving everyone – mothers, parents, families – in a way that is inclusive of all races, ethnicities, religions, sexes, national origins, ancestries, ages, marital statuses, physical or mental abilities, socio-economic statuses, political views, gender identities, sexual orientations, family structures, cultural values and beliefs.

    Except smokers. 🙂

  78. Rex Anger

    Op sec is the worst excuse.
    You don’t want your UAV pilot watching infantry tactics?
    As if SAS have some special Karma Sutra moves that they can’t let on.
    Like a swirl with their palm, and George Kostanza’s going to screw it up if he uses it.

    Everybody wants a good clip for funker530 or LiveLeak, after all.

    And the best clips are from overwatch of Tier 1 or other SF doorkickers.

    Closely followed by IED crews suffering from that terrible scourge, premature detonation.

    My personal favoirite came out of Kosovo. A bunch of Serbs in a Lada decided to do some roll-by shootings of German Army checkpoints.

    All went well up to the point where they ran into a checkpoint that just happened to have a Leopard 2A5 reinforcing it. You see the thing come to a screeching halt, as the first spray of MG3 fire punches a neat lttle line of holes in the windscreen.

    The schutzarschen did a lot of cowering behind the engine decks and popping shots off at gunmen unseen off-camera. But the Leo’s Crew Commander was having none of the Slavs’ shit.

    4 or 5 belts of coaxial MG3 later, the car was an absolute mess. The 7.62mm rounds have even done in the engine block. Remarkably, the dudes in the car survived.

    Don’t mess with panzertruppen. Whether they speak German or not…

    Offering three or four bullshit excuses isn’t better than one bullshit excuse.
    It looks like you are looking for bullshit excuses.

    And the more you spout, the more suspect your audience thinks you are.

    Silly Head Sheds…

  79. bespoke

    Cheers Mitch M glad I waited.

    I had (one deceased) identical twins and personalities couldn’t be more different.

  80. kaysee

    Why people believe they can’t draw – and how to prove they can (15:03)

    Why is it that so many people think they can’t draw? Where did we learn to believe that? Graham Shaw will shatter this illusion – quite literally – in a very practical way. He’ll demonstrate how the simple act of drawing has the power to make a positive difference in the world.

  81. Rex Anger

    Dave Prowse, star of A Clockwork Orange and Star Wars, has died aged 85.

    Sinc, please ban 2020 for being, well, 2020-ish…

    ☹️

  82. Albatross

    I’d Ed’s to be believed he’s got a retarded twin out there somewhere.

  83. Ed Case

    *** adoption agencies have very strict criteria for adoptees hence the twins are typically moving into remarkably similiar environments. ***
    That’s probably true where both Twins were adopted out, but the instances where one twin was adopted and one wasn’t, the environments weren’t similar, but the life paths, choices of the Twins were remarkably similar.

  84. zyconoclast

    New rules treat religious activities by foreigners as espionage

    The new regulations require total separation between foreign and Chinese religious groups. They demand total submission to China’s laws, regulations, and policies. Membership (names, visa, residence), materials (books, brochures, audio-visual), and meeting places must be closely monitored. No external religious symbols are allowed.

  85. Runnybum

    Numbers has ruined this site, aided & abetted by the people who keep replying to the dimwit.
    It was a good blog once, no more.
    Sinc, you screwed your own blog.
    Goodbye.

  86. Top Ender

    The Guardian reports on the Green Dream – that isn’t.

    A couple from Kent have described how it took them more than nine hours to drive 130 miles home from Bournemouth as they struggled to find a working charger capable of producing enough power to their electric car.

    Linda Barnes and her husband had to visit six charging stations as one after another they were either out of order, already had a queue or were the slow, older versions that would never be able to provide a fast enough charge in the time.

    While the couple seem to have been “incredibly unlucky”, according to the president of the AA, Edmund King, their case highlights some of the problems that need ironing out before electric car owners can rely on the UK’s charging infrastructure.

    The couple, who love their new fully electric Porsche Taycan 4S, which has a range of about 250 miles, contacted the Guardian to describe how difficult it is to recharge a car away from home. Their journey would have taken two and a half hours in a conventional car, they say.

    The pair are not the first owners who love their electric cars to complain that the UK’s charging network is poorly maintained, complicated and hugely difficult to navigate via its various apps and payment systems.

    The latest electric cars require fast 50kW-100kW chargers to refill on the go but they are hard to find and are often out of action.

    Their journey shows the scale of the challenge the government faces if it is to have a working infrastructure in place ahead of its ban on new petrol and diesel cars in 2030.

    Read on for lots of whinging….

  87. stackja

    Runnybum
    #3675035, posted on November 29, 2020 at 7:20 pm

    Tom toons. I ignore the usual suspects.

  88. Bruce of Newcastle

    Darth Vader is dead?
    Maybe he’s just become more powerful than we can possibly imagine.
    Thanks for your work Mr Prowse.

  89. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Goodbye.’

    Oh bugger. That’s banana-related commentary done. Outsourcing may be required.

  90. stackja

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #3675038, posted on November 29, 2020 at 7:24 pm

    James Earl Jones (born January 17, 1931) is an American actor.
    Although many people contributed to the voice of Darth Vader, James Earl Jones made the most impact. He is so closely associated with Darth Vader that most people forget that he is an actual person and not just a machine-programmed voice.

  91. Leigh Lowe

    Runnybum

    #3675035, posted on November 29, 2020 at 7:20 pm

    Numbers has ruined this site, aided & abetted by the people who keep replying to the dimwit.
    It was a good blog once, no more.
    Sinc, you screwed your own blog.
    Goodbye.

    Fuck off Ted (the very similar one) and don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

  92. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘The pair are not the first owners who love their electric cars to complain that’…….

    It’s not the car. it’s not the charging speed or capacity. It’s not how it feels, deep inside. It’s not the shit infrastructure that can’t support the shit car or it’s ability to move around.

    That it’s someone else’s fault, and that free stuff will fix it.

  93. Knuckle Dragger

    Oustanding news.

    Midget ranga cheat has a soft-tissue injury, is off the ground and is most likely fucked for the season.

    C’mon young Pucovski. It’s yours! Take it! TAKE IT!!!

  94. Nick

    Goodbye here is like hello

  95. Nick

    Midget ranga cheat has a soft-tissue injury, is off the ground and is most likely fucked for the season.

    I bet he rang his PR agent first

  96. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    Darth Vader is dead.

  97. Rockdoctor

    Darth Vader, aka David Prowse gone. RIP and may the force be with you…

  98. Rex Anger

    It was a good blog once, no more.
    Sinc, you screwed your own blog.
    Goodbye.

    Ooo! Oooo!

    Flounce?! 😃

    Is it a flounce?😃😃

    Please say it’s a flounce… ☹️

  99. Knuckle Dragger

    It’ll be a flounce. Nothing surer.

    Flounce rating: D+. Could have smiled a bit more, didn’t quite details everyone else’s faults to the requisite detail.

    I expect better on the next attempt, after his return.

  100. Knuckle Dragger

    *detail everyone else’s*

    Poor sentence construction. That’ll get him back.

  101. kaysee

    Here’s Why You Should Skip the Covid Vaccine

    The new Covid vaccines will make billions of dollars for the big pharmaceutical companies, but here’s what they won’t do:

    1. The vaccines will not cure Covid
    2. The vaccines will not prevent people from contracting Covid
    3. The vaccines will not prevent Covid-related hospitalizations
    4. The vaccines will not prevent Covid-caused deaths

    Now, I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking, “If the vaccine does not protect me from getting Covid (or dying from Covid), then why should I take it?”

    And the answer is: “You shouldn’t. It makes no sense at all, especially in view of the fact that new vaccines pose considerable risks to one’s health and well-being.

    “Risks,” you say? “No one said anything about risks. I thought this wonderful new Covid cure was entirely risk-free; just take the jab and– Presto– life goes back to normal.”

    Wrong. There are risks, significant risks that the media and the medical establishment have papered-over with their ridiculous Happy Talk about “miracle” vaccines. But all of this is just public relations hype designed to hoodwink people into injecting themselves with a dubious substance that does NOT do what it’s supposed to do, and which DOES pose serious long-term risks to one’s health.

    Like we said earlier, the real issues are being cleverly concealed by the people in charge who are hyping the “95% effective” nonsense to hoodwink people into cooperating. It’s blatantly dishonest.

    And here’s something else to think over: What do we really know about these miraculous vaccines that are supposed to lead us out of our “public health crisis”?

    Not much. We know that they’re being rushed to market. We know that they were delayed for political reasons. We know the science is being shaped by the politics. We know that vaccine development typically takes 10 years, and that “rushed” vaccine development takes 3 years, and that the upcoming batch of dubious vaccines will have taken roughly 8 months.

    8 months!

    Do you find that reassuring? Does that make you want to push your way to the front of the line on Vaccine Day? And are you surprised that a large sampling of medical professionals has decided they aren’t going to take the vaccine until it’s been out for at least a year??

    It is a long article. Read it if you want more details.

  102. Bruce of Newcastle

    Stack – I liked James Earl Jones in Strangelove and Conan. He’s a trouper. It must be hard doing an acting gig when you are the voice and someone else is the body. Combining body language with verbal language would be a challenge.

  103. Nick

    Flounce rating: D+.

    Agree. An A grade flounce requires insults relating to a mouldy dildo and I hate you all.

  104. Arky

    Flounce rating: D+.

    ..
    Take the princess and the wookie to my ship.

  105. H B Bear

    I wouldn’t bother with a flounce unless accompanied with a half tuck.

    Piss weak.

  106. Rex Anger

    It’ll be a flounce. Nothing surer.

    I am a happy Anger (contradictory as this sounds).

    I have witnessed my.first flounce. 😊

  107. H B Bear

    Points for a gratuitous whack at Snic though.

  108. Knuckle Dragger

    I love the Golden Flounce pic.

    Tells a thousand words. Mostly words of complaint.

  109. calli

    Or, there’s always … Drama!

    An excellent fallback position.

  110. Nick

    Rex, I’m sad your first time was so disappointing.

  111. Knuckle Dragger

    Snort.

    Warner’s being carted off to hospital.

    In a Kia people mover. No Lambo for some time for you, you defective little cack-handed houso.

  112. Mitch M.

    kaysee
    #3675056, posted on November 29, 2020 at 7:42 pm
    Here’s Why You Should Skip the Covid Vaccine

    Except that many won’t be given a choice.
    It’s too easy to fudge data. Biomedicine has huge statistical problems and just today a friend told me he is amazed at how often researchers ignore data.

    It can take years for problems to emerge with new treatments.

    I won’t be rushing to the front of the line but nursing home residents and staff, medical staff, and emergency workers will not have a choice.

    Huge conflict of interest: so much money to be made so vaccine manufacturers will be rushing and cutting corners to be on the market before the rush of vaccines comes along by all the others.

  113. Rex Anger

    @ Nick-

    Rex, I’m sad your first time was so disappointing.

    I am surprisingly easily pleased.

    This is a factor in why I frighten some people, easily irritate others and get on like a house on fire (the pyromania helps 🤪) with more…

  114. min

    Re Nature / Nuture debate when I started in Psychology, Burt’s theory was still the Vogue , that is 30% Nature 70% Nurture until it was falsified ( made up the number of separated at birth identical twins . ) Percentages changed to 30% nuture / 70% nature as science of genetics gained more knowledge . However it was still said Nature was still only a predisposition. Thinking was as more genetic research discovered the higher Nature percentage would go up . It was not that long ago for instance that hording was found to have a genetic component . In what I have noticed that even identical twins are not treated identically and that the first born seemed to be more competitive not enough numbers for evidence tho’.

  115. Rockdoctor

    LOL, not long after I was legal drinking in one of the pubs in rural Victoria where they used to have a happy hour every Friday night. Free pots from 6-6:15, one of these Fridays 2 old codgers took issue with each other but had better form than these blokes…

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8997681/Bizarre-road-rage-brawl-two-men-trade-blows-middle-Perth-road-minor-prang.html

  116. Ed Case

    Everyone will be getting it, no exceptions.
    The spin is now “some coercion may be involved”. You can say that again.
    For some reason it’s in the arse rather than the arm, must be incredibly painful.
    Read a while ago that WA is hiring Special Constables, or similar, have given them powers to remove underwear in order to insert the needle.
    Scotty will be toast once that happens, no wonder every man and his dog is after the hapless Albo’s job.

  117. kaysee

    I won’t be rushing to the front of the line but nursing home residents and staff, medical staff, and emergency workers will not have a choice.

    Same here, Mitch. I have read enough on this topic to know that the vaccine is a risk, not a benefit, to my health.

    I would like all those advocating the vaccine, starting with the leaders: Gates, Soros, Fauci, Tedros, Guterres and politicians to line up with their families and take the shot in public. Then, we wait for six months and observe how they are coping.

    After that, we’ll decide.

  118. Arky

    It is neither nature nor nurture.
    It is will.
    A man can will in himself whatever he wants.

  119. Steve trickler

    The bloke behind the wheel just lost his daughter to C. The moment he hits the accelerator, all care to the car is lost in the wind.



  120. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Read a while ago that WA is hiring Special Constables, or similar, have given them powers to remove underwear in order to insert the needle.’

    Where and when, you gibbering fool? No? Thought not.

    What you’re talking about is the use of force to facilitate a medical procedure. Are they making the ‘Special Constables’ medical practitioners as well for the purpose of the relevant Acts so this can happen?

    No? Thought not.

    Shorter Ed, and from earlier: ‘I tell a lot of lies, mh.’

  121. Terry Pedersen

    Seemed like an impromptu, out of the blue, totally unexpected flounce to me. B+ at least.

  122. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Shatterzzz, what a terrific pic of your grandchildren, no wonder you are proud as punch about them. It’s so good when you can manage to get a whole bunch like that together, especially if they don’t live close by. And no-one is looking away, or grizzling, or picking their nose, which is rare to achieve with a crowd.

    You beat me by one, for I have six not seven of them and I am hoping to get them all together for a big photo next Christmas; can’t manage it this one. I have a fairly good pic on a side table which shows me and five of mine, but there is another one to add now. Seeing him soon in Queensland and can’t wait.

  123. kaysee

    December 2020, the 250th anniversary of the birth of Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827).

    Moonlight Sonata (Full) (17:25)

  124. cohenite

    Nature provides a variety of potential responses to a variety of environments. For instance I was born with a propensity to eat cheesecake. My nurturing exposed me to a vast variety of cheesecakes to which I could either prioritise, ignore or eat with cream and/or ice-cream. The interaction of these variables which change in themselves as well as relative to each other has produced this current overwhelming nurtured and natural longing for this:

    https://norecipes.com/burnt-basque-cheesecake/

  125. Leigh Lowe

    “Both sides had their My Lais – ours were rare and highly publicized, theirs were continuous throughout the war and after and largely dismissed, ignored, defended, or rationalised by brave intellectuals.”

    I’ll see your My Lai and raise you a Khmer Rouge.

  126. Maj

    Louisiana gov speaks out on SCOTUS declining to hear case of pastor who defied coronavirus orders

    After the Supreme Court declined to hear the case of a Louisiana pastor facing criminal charges for defying coronavirus restrictions, the state’s governor weighed in.

    Louisiana Gov. John Bel Edwards, a Democrat, said Saturday that he has “let science and data inform” the decisions he has made on crowd sizes and other restrictions.

    “I am thankful that the United States Supreme Court denied this effort to overturn these mitigation efforts,” Edwards said in a statement.

    “For months I have spoken and prayed with leaders of many faiths as we have navigated this pandemic together. I know how difficult this time has been for them and I am deeply appreciative of their commitment to practice their faiths even under trying circumstances and with the health of their congregations in mind.”

    Life Tabernacle Church pastor Tony Spell filed an emergency petition with the Supreme Court earlier this month, seeking relief from the nine criminal charges currently pending against him.

    Spell’s filing argued that Louisiana’s restrictions on large gatherings violate “one of the First Amendment’s most precious guarantees: the right of a church, which by definition is an assembly, to decide whether to assemble or not.”

    Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito denied Spell’s request Friday night without asking for information from Louisiana officials or referring the case to the full court.

    Spell also sued local and state officials in May, but lower courts ruled against him.

    According to the latest filing, Spell has been charged with several misdemeanors for violating coronavirus restrictions and one felony count for allegedly trying to hit a protester with his vehicle.

    The decision by Alito comes after the Supreme Court ruled against capacity restrictions Wednesday at religious services in certain parts of New York.

    The high court also ruled 5-4 to leave in place coronavirus-related restrictions in California and Nevada.

    Worrying sign. Maybe Alito isn’t the rock-solid pro-Trump Justice we thought he was.

  127. wivenhoe

    A man can will in himself whatever he wants.

    I learned it as. .Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve. Unfortunately at the moment, I can not recall whom to h/t.

  128. Tintarella di Luna

    shatterzzz what a beautiful family photo such blessings – thank you made my day

  129. Rex Anger

    Read a while ago that WA is hiring Special Constables, or similar, have given them powers to remove underwear in order to insert the needle.’

    Where and when, you gibbering fool? No? Thought not.

    What you’re talking about is the use of force to facilitate a medical procedure. Are they making the ‘Special Constables’ medical practitioners as well for the purpose of the relevant Acts so this can happen?

    No? Thought not.

    Edgy now extends his list of things he has problems with to arses…

    It’s alright Edgy. Stay away from the carbs, drink lots of milk, and if you focus on your Buteyko breathing hard enough (and think about lots and lots of Naz-eee traffic paddles) you will be able to destroy all the vaccine particles with the nitrous oxide you generate in your nose…

    At least it might take your mind off hating policemen for a time…

  130. Mitch M.

    wivenhoe
    #3675092, posted on November 29, 2020 at 8:28 pm
    A man can will in himself whatever he wants.

    I learned it as. .Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve. Unfortunately at the moment, I can not recall whom to h/t.

    Schopenhauer put it differently …

    “A man can do what he wants, but not want what he wants.”

  131. Roger

    It is neither nature nor nurture.
    It is will.
    A man can will in himself whatever he wants.

    History is littered with the corpses of men who thought as much.

    Romans 7 is nearer the mark:

    So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

  132. Dot

    A man can will in himself whatever he wants.

    Rev Arky Crowley?

    Very luciferian.

  133. Leigh Lowe

    Knuckle Dragger

    #3675045, posted on November 29, 2020 at 7:31 pm

    Oustanding news.

    Midget ranga cheat has a soft-tissue injury, is off the ground and is most likely fucked for the season.

    C’mon young Pucovski. It’s yours! Take it! TAKE IT!!!

    Go for it, young Will.
    I reckon he should call a presser, announce that you don’t break up a winning combo and insist that Marcus Harris be added to the squad.

  134. Mitch M.

    min
    #3675073, posted on November 29, 2020 at 8:03 pm
    Re Nature / Nuture debate when I started in Psychology, Burt’s theory was still the Vogue , that is 30% Nature 70% Nurture until it was falsified ( made up the number of separated at birth identical twins . ) Percentages changed to 30% nuture / 70% nature as science of genetics gained more knowledge . However it was still said Nature was still only a predisposition. Thinking was as more genetic research discovered the higher Nature percentage would go up . It was not that long ago for instance that hording was found to have a genetic component . In what I have noticed that even identical twins are not treated identically and that the first born seemed to be more competitive not enough numbers for evidence tho’.

    Two huge risk factors for shizophrenia and ASD are maternal immune activation and difficult birth; though I think genetic components is an essential but not sufficient pre-requisite. It is not a specific genetic component, it could be a number of genomic configurations.

    I heard a psychiatrist say that emigration is a bigger risk factor for schizophrenia than genes. He argued that the stress of emigration and of being an outsider in the new country was the big driver. I read a fascinating alternative hypothesis regarding that. Mothers who emigrated from poor beginnings had a small birth canal due to lack of good nutrition during growing years but the developing fetus received optimal nutrition in the first world(British study) so there was a mismatch between fetus size and birth canal size leading to birth complications. That’s a testable hypothesis but I don’t know if the tests were done.

    In IQ studies the higher the SES the stronger the association with genetics. In lower SES it largely washes out and anyone familiar with neurodevelopmental trajectories can see why that happens(think “enriched environment” and “synapse pruning”). That is one big reason why I become angry when I hear about indigenous disadvantage. Single biggest variable in the psychological and physical health, and cognitive potential, is the home environment. NEVER do I see that referenced by all those bleeding hearts because then they have to speak about domestic violence, alcohol and drug abuse, the lack of books in the home, the lack of emphasis on work and education, the need to work for their children’s future.

  135. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘insist that Marcus Harris be added’

    Oho. The double down.

  136. DrBeauGan

    A man can will in himself whatever he wants.

    Try willing to fly like superman. See where it gets you.

    Or do you only will.what you figure you can get?

  137. Leigh Lowe

    Knuckle Dragger

    #3675054, posted on November 29, 2020 at 7:40 pm

    It’ll be a flounce. Nothing surer.

    Flounce rating: D+. Could have smiled a bit more, didn’t quite details everyone else’s faults to the requisite detail.

    I expect better on the next attempt, after his return.

    Yeah.
    That was no permanent flounce.
    The Big One will go like this:-
    1. An accomplice will announce (at least thrice) that there is an alternative site over at the furniture store “just in case” SS Catallaxy hits an iceberg;
    2. There will be then a solid wall of insult trolling and defamation/18C baiting for 12-18 hours;
    3. If the bait is not taken there will be a glorious flounce or Sinc will sink him.
    .
    I predict this.
    On or about the Ides of Christmas.

  138. Leigh Lowe

    Knuckle Dragger

    #3675100, posted on November 29, 2020 at 8:35 pm

    ‘insist that Marcus Harris be added’

    Oho. The double down.

    This week the appropriate question is …
    “What would Diego Maradona do?”

  139. Colonel Crispin Berka

    As much as I do not want Australia or any of the people in it to be carrying out war crimes (whether they are discovered or not)… there’s no such thing as a polite and respectable war.
    When exemplar promotion fails, then explicit expectation fails, then reason fails, then litigation fails, then intimidation fails, then drone and cyberops fail, you are down to using force with actual bombs and bullets to neutralise an incubating terrorist threat to multiple western nations. All the nicey-pie has failed. There is no nicey-pie any more.
    The actual context matters. I don’t know what happened. Exactly what the circumstances were is important to deciding whether the “blooding” claim is true. I do not want a “warrior culture” in the ADF, I want a professional fighting force. That’s why the blooding claim is disturbing. But as bad as that is, it may not be the final deciding factor.

    All I know is, if we want all the nicey-pie options to succeed in the future, surely that prospect is raised, and the prospect of war is lessened, when adversaries know that the nasty options are really nasty and we won’t be holding the threat of court marshal over our own troops heads every time the action heats up. That is part of maintaining a credible defense force. The ADF must act on behalf of the public, but the public’s support will be flimsy and inauthentic until they are educated about some awkward realities and thereby made complicit in the deal.
    The bottom line is that the purpose of soldiers is not to be liked by our public but to be feared by the enemy.

  140. Knuckle Dragger

    Fake teachers? Never (the Hun):

    ‘Bethany Stilo, 37, made fake qualifications by copying templates from the teaching watchdog website, changing the name to her own and inventing a registration number, a court heard.

    ‘Ms Stilo pleaded guilty to one count of holding herself out to be a registered early childhood teacher and received a fine without conviction on November 6.’

    And:

    ‘Ms Stilo, through her lawyer, claimed she didn’t know she needed a teacher registration for the practitioner role in early childhood early intervention. But after 18 months in the job, she was asked for proof and “she really panicked”.

    After claiming her registration card was at Chisholm Institute, where she taught a class one day a week, the court heard Ms Stilo sought to create one. “She took a snapshot of the VIT (Victorian Institute of Teaching) card on the website and changed the name and number,” Ms Roodenburg said.

    ‘She then searched on the internet how to create a fake card, found Officeworks sold a printer that made them, bought the printer and presented the card to her employer the next day.’

    Apparently PhDs are $250 at Officeworks as well.

  141. Ed Case

    Poor old Rex, Diggers have been going public on our blokes doing the wrong thing in Afghanistan for ten years, he’s still in denial, and if it did happen, it’s some shiny arses fault in Red Hill, he blusters.
    What about the toll on blokes who are forced to witness atrocities, Rex?
    Here’s the Wiki entry on Audie Murphy, the psychological effects his war service had on the remainder of his life: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy#Post-traumatic_stress

  142. cohenite

    Apparently PhDs are $250 at Officeworks as well.

    Yep, buy 3 and they’ll throw in a couple of Masters in gender studies.

  143. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘our blokes doing the wrong thing in Afghanistan for ten years’

    With no apparent recriminations against the people supposed to be responsible, in the most highly visible and micromanaged conflict in history. As has been said, and much better by others. Yeah righto.

    Take your traffic paddles and your crystalline salt hysteria somewhere else, because your vagina is clearly giving you trouble.

    To recap: ‘I tell a lot of lies, mh.’

  144. Entropy

    Why do you need professional qualifications for advanced sandcastle construction and monkey bar supervision (although I suspect monkey bars might be banned)?

  145. Nick

    Apparently PhDs are $250 at Officeworks as well.

    In Sinoville they are given out, usually to wealthy business figures, which galls the odd few who have a real one.

  146. Leigh Lowe

    Perfect crickit scenario.
    1. The cheating ranga does his rehab by playing X-Box and pushing the ankle-biters around in a pram because recent SAS graduate Candice “doesn’t do that shit anymore”.
    2. The ranga turns up to the First Test about 63.1% fit, but gets his way and has Burns opening with him.
    3. In the second or third over, Burns dabs one to point and calls for a quick single. The ranga makes it half-way before his dodgy groin explodes and he is run out. In other words, Burns burns him.
    4. The Aussies go on to make 4/600 (dec) on a flat-track-bully deck.
    5. Pucovski Tweets … “I would never have called that single on an old man before he was warmed up”.

  147. Mitch M.

    cohenite
    #3675111, posted on November 29, 2020 at 8:51 pm
    Apparently PhDs are $250 at Officeworks as well.

    Yep, buy 3 and they’ll throw in a couple of Masters in gender studies.

    A friend sent me this earlier today:
    Going in Through the Back Door: Challenging Straight Male Homohysteria, Transhysteria, and Transphobia Through Receptive Penetrative Sex Toy Use

    http://www.rationalskepticism.org/social-sciences/7-hoax-articles-accepted-for-publication-in-various-journals-t55525.html

    Come on Cohenite, you could get that Masters over a weekend and a few reds. 😛

  148. kaysee

    Ponderable Points 🐻
     
    One
     
    Two

  149. candy

    A man can will in himself whatever he wants.

    Can a lady do that too Arky?
    If so how?

    Just joking. But sounds like new age psychological claptrap, to my mind. One simply cannot change reality.

  150. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Biden dreams of being the new Roosevelt. He’ll have 100 days do it

    Sarah Baxter
    Columnist, The Times
    The Sunday Times
    An hour ago November 29, 2020
    29 Comments

    Joe Biden could hear Donald Trump supporters chanting “Stop the steal” beyond the perimeter as he stepped into the White House as the 46th US president. Let them deny reality all they liked, he reflected. Even Trump, the one-term loser, had turned up, scowling, to Biden’s inauguration, after leaving everybody guessing about his intentions for weeks. Hillary Clinton was there too, with her husband, Bill, wondering what might have been.

    No more playing second fiddle to Barack Obama either. Nearly 50 years after being sworn in as one of America’s youngest senators, middle-class Joe from Scranton, Pennsylvania, was now Mr President. The Oval Office was his, along with the marine in crisp white uniform stationed outside the door. The bright gold curtains, a brash reminder of Trump’s four years in power, would have to go, Biden mused, as well as the painting of Andrew Jackson, the populist 19th-century president to whom Trump liked to compare himself.

    Is this how it will be in the heady few hours after Biden’s inauguration on January 20, as he sets out on his first 100 days in power — when reality hits home for every new American leader?

    Biden could well replace Jackson’s image with a portrait of Franklin Delano Roosevelt — FDR — the Democratic president whose triumph over personal suffering in the form of polio and bold record of reform had inspired him on the campaign trail. In his Thanksgiving address last week, the president-elect said: “Looking back over our history, you see that it’s been in the most difficult circumstances that the soul of our nation has been forged.”

    Roosevelt tackled the Great Depression with gusto, enacting a series of laws fixing the banks, relieving poverty and putting Americans back to work in his first 100 days of office. Biden faces his own daunting challenges, with a soaring number of COVID-19 cases, looming personal and corporate bankruptcies and 11 million unemployed. Unlike his hero, he must deal with a hostile, divided congress and a seething former president who has managed to convince an astonishing number of followers that “Sleepy Joe” must have cheated his way to power.

    Michael Beschloss, one of America’s foremost presidential historians, once said that every president “hated” being measured by the “almost unreal standard” set by Roosevelt in those first 100 days. Yet Biden became vice-president in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis and prides himself on having helped to pull America out of the Great Recession. He is convinced he can do so again.

  151. kaysee

    It’s Sunday. So ………..
     
    Four
     
    Five
     
    Six

  152. cohenite

    Not bad; one of my favourites was this little ripper:

    Termination of intractable hiccups with digital rectal massage

    Practical too.

  153. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Dot at 8:39 pm:

    “Steve Smith almost took flight!”

    Smith is a cheat. He was appointed to the most important public position in the country and used it to cheat. The other ugly little mong who was appointed vice captain is also a low grade dishonest cheat.

    Why either of them is anywhere near an Australian team is a travesty.

  154. kaysee

    The Spaminator ate up the first lot. It didn’t like one word.

  155. Vic in Prossy.

    When did batsmen become batters?

  156. camdy

    Biden dreams of being the new Roosevelt

    Did Roosevelt sniff and touch up little girls?

  157. Stimpson J. Cat

    Two huge risk factors for shizophrenia and ASD are maternal immune activation and difficult birth; though I think genetic components is an essential but not sufficient pre-requisite. It is not a specific genetic component, it could be a number of genomic configurations.
    I heard a psychiatrist say that emigration is a bigger risk factor for schizophrenia than genes. He argued that the stress of emigration and of being an outsider in the new country was the big driver. I read a fascinating alternative hypothesis regarding that. Mothers who emigrated from poor beginnings had a small birth canal due to lack of good nutrition during growing years but the developing fetus received optimal nutrition in the first world(British study) so there was a mismatch between fetus size and birth canal size leading to birth complications. That’s a testable hypothesis but I don’t know if the tests were done.
    In IQ studies the higher the SES the stronger the association with genetics. In lower SES it largely washes out and anyone familiar with neurodevelopmental trajectories can see why that happens(think “enriched environment” and “synapse pruning”). That is one big reason why I become angry when I hear about indigenous disadvantage. Single biggest variable in the psychological and physical health, and cognitive potential, is the home environment. NEVER do I see that referenced by all those bleeding hearts because then they have to speak about domestic violence, alcohol and drug abuse, the lack of books in the home, the lack of emphasis on work and education, the need to work for their children’s future.

    The vast majority of what psychologists and psychiatrists think about “Mental Illnesses”
    like “Schizophrenia” and “Autistic Spectrum Disorder” is very very wrong.

    Trust me on this.

    The secret to successfully dealing with such things is discipline of the self,
    will(it is a finite resource and must be renewed and replenished),
    insight,
    and most important of all,
    humor.

    Intelligence does not even rate a mention,
    I’m afraid.

    😁

    **Denim shorts are also helpful**

  158. Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)

    More than a million angry fans have signed a petition urging Hollywood honchos to boot Amber Heard off the movie “Aquaman 2” — saying she “ruined” ex-husband Johnny Depp’s career.

  159. JC

    The rude little black dude is Beetle Juice, who Howard Stern used to have on his program. I don’t know if this is a stunt or whatever, b ut it’s shit like this that made America great.

    https://twitter.com/Rmfc7712/status/1332941224370552832

  160. Leigh Lowe

    Entropy

    #3675113, posted on November 29, 2020 at 8:52 pm

    Why do you need professional qualifications for advanced sandcastle construction and monkey bar supervision

    If only they saw themselves that way.
    But the useless fuckers get their Cert IV in sandcastles and then go all Sigmund Freud on steroids.
    Wildly diagnosing all sorts of disorders before morning tea day one.
    Any slight sign of shyness, a little aggression in boys, any form of non-compliance and it is off to the psych.

  161. Nick

    Back in the old days, the types who now work in child care would be called ‘a bit simple’ and would have worked in a factory somewhere.

  162. Mark A

    Ƶĩppʯ (ȊꞪꞨV)
    #3675138, posted on November 29, 2020 at 9:22 pm

    Amber Heard
    saying she “ruined” ex-husband Johnny Depp’s career.

    I think Johnny had a fair bit to do with that himself.

  163. calli

    Lol. Frank Thring makes an appearance on Ben Hur.

    Nice toga.

  164. Arky

    DrBeauGan
    #3675101, posted on November 29, 2020 at 8:36 pm
    A man can will in himself whatever he wants.

    Try willing to fly like superman. See where it gets you.

    ..



    ..
    A man can will in himself whatever he wants.

  165. Arky

    A man can will in himself whatever he wants.

    Can a lady do that too Arky?

    ..
    No.

  166. Leigh Lowe

    Nick

    #3675142, posted on November 29, 2020 at 9:29 pm

    Back in the old days, the types who now work in child care would be called ‘a bit simple’

    They still are.
    The thing is, they now have a certificate and are wannabe clinical psychologists.
    They are now perfessionals and will become more heavily unionised, with increasing salaries for less work (reduced minder/brat ratios)

  167. candy

    The secret to successfully dealing with such things is discipline of the self,
    will(it is a finite resource and must be renewed and replenished),
    insight, and most important of all,
    humor.

    No. The secret is properly tested psychotropic medication, regular follow-up with the treating psychiatrist, and supervised living arrangements if the mentally person has trouble functioning.
    And if the person suffering with that mental illness has children in their care, good psychiatric treatment is uppermost. In my opinion. People with schizophrenia have visual and auditory hallucinations. You can’t let them be in charge of kids.

  168. Top Ender

    Audie Murphy was a bit of a terror.

    As was our own Ben Roberts-Smith VC, who hopefully won’t get damaged any further:

    Audie Murphy recalled after the D-Day landings:

    As I round a slight bend in the gully, I run head-on into two Germans. For an instant they recoil in surprise; and that is their mistake. My combat experience has taught me the value of split seconds. Before the Germans can regain their balance, I kill them both with a carbine.

    Murphy, the most highly-decorated soldier of America’s armies in WWII, was by his own account, and of others, a most efficient despatcher of the enemy. In one battle, where he and his squad encountered heavy resistance, he stormed two positions, one after the other, and killed at least nine German soldiers. He despatched, by one estimate, 241 of the enemy, and in one engagement led an assault where he personally killed 50 soldiers.

    There are other, albeit rare, examples from other armies. The Australian soldier Albert Jacka was thought so effective by his Brigadier that “A company under his lead was as good as an extra battalion to me”; testimony to Jacka’s extreme aggression in combat and the spirit it imbued in his men. US soldier David Rubitsky was estimated by the US Army to have killed over 500 of the enemy when fighting in New Guinea, and thought of himself “I was completely an insane man”.

  169. Mitch M.

    The vast majority of what psychologists and psychiatrists think about “Mental Illnesses”
    like “Schizophrenia” and “Autistic Spectrum Disorder” is very very wrong.

    Trust me on this.

    I won’t trust you because a friend of mine who is not a psych has written two books on ASD and I will trust him because he is an Aspie who specialises in helping autists. I’ve read hundreds of studies on ASD and a dozen or so books so I advise that the issue is frustratingly complex and beyond my ability to comprehend.

    If you know how to help those people then hop to it because the savings in suffering, lives and money will be incalculable. You’ll be famous, you’ll be off to Sweden, and think of the schadenfreude you’ll enjoy showing up all the psychs.

  170. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘perfessionals’

    Educators, thank you. All bearing Certificates of Attendance for local requirement-to-change-gender-at-four-years-of-age courses.

    There’s more biting each other in the staff room than outside.

  171. I had occasion to have a look at the Age front today. In 2020 Summit Mark II News comes this shit stain:

    ‘Industry groups, unions, universities and sporting organisations are set to join forces to generate policy and project ideas that would power Victoria’s economic recovery and define the state’s post-pandemic recovery.
    Talks are underway involving the AFL, companies including KPMG, leading universities and Victoria’s peak union body to join the Victoria Summit, which is being organised by the Victorian Chamber of Commerce and Industry.
    The Andrews Government welcomed the formation of the summit and VECCI chief executive Paul Guerra, backed by Trades Hall secretary Luke Hilakari, said it would harness trust formed between government, business and unions during the pandemic.
    ” It’ll be one of those ones where you drop the ego at the door and bright minds around the state come together,” Mr Guerra said, adding the group will collaborate on ideas for key growth sectors such as renewable energy, artificial intelligence and medical research.’

    I almost choked when I read that there was trust fomented between the government and business. At why the AFL are on board with this is beyond any rational thought. Victoria, the place to be for carpetbaggers and spivs. FMD

  172. Arky

    To will is not the same as to wish.

  173. Rex Anger

    Poor old Rex, Diggers have been going public on our blokes doing the wrong thing in Afghanistan for ten years, he’s still in denial, and if it did happen, it’s some shiny arses fault in Red Hill, he blusters.
    What about the toll on blokes who are forced to witness atrocities, Rex?

    That’s a pretty spectacular, almost Numbers-esque unrelated overreaction to my suggestion you don’t like arses, Edgy.

    Some childhood or young adult trauma involving cheeky needles?

    Poor bastard. At least it isn’t as awful as Carbohydrates and policemen…

  174. Speaking of which, has anything from Rudd’s gabfest come to pass?

  175. MatrixTransform

    a little aggression in boys

    The does tut-tutt while the bucks rut

    proper pronouns and antler-removal will probably change how things really are.

    but, the fuck would I know eh?

  176. DrBeauGan

    Intelligence does not even rate a mention,
    I’m afraid.

    Aren’t you lucky!

  177. Rex Anger

    Speaking of which, has anything from Rudd’s gabfest come to pass?

    More and ever more funding for the yartz.

    Ever-increasing quantities of ‘free’ money for mendicants to engage in spurious patronage for their favored mates to ‘create’ infantile-grade ironmongery, chewed crayon shits and communist propaganda ‘plays’ so awful Communists themselves would purge the writers…

  178. Pedro the Loafer

    Well, the wheat harvest is in and my final day as a chaser bin driver has arrived.
    Another para added to the CV. 🙂

    It has been an eye opener, long hard and hot days, sweaty and itchy work clothes, and mind numbingly boring at times, but working with a bunch of “true blue” people full of good humour, generosity and a genuine concern for the land made it all worthwhile.

    I volunteered to take this on to help out because of the shortage of harvest workers in WA due to border closures and Covid quarantine rules. Wages were supposed to be daily lunch, a BBQ dinner and a ride home from the farm after being shouted a few cold beverages. Bonus was a few bags of local sheep meat for the freezer.

    To my very great surprise my “boss” presented me with a substantial cheque this afternoon telling me I had saved him from big crop losses and wages he would have had to pay a contractor. He also told me I was possibly the worst chaser bin driver he had ever seen and that his 14 year old son would run rings around me. He would accept no argument over me accepting the cheque.

    Pondering recent events, I have decided the cheque will go to the SAS Resources Fund.

  179. Rex Anger

    @ Zippy-

    A couple of mates with a flat-bed truck and a Hiab crane are no doubt pissing themselves laughing. Both at the “Ermagerd! Am not saying it Aliumses, but… Allans from spehsss!” conspiracy theory crowds, and the poor Project Manager who has spent the last few weeks panicking about the missing Mirrored Steel decorative column from his build site, only to suddenly find it sitting innocently back in the yard, in he exact place itndisappeared from.

  180. Boambee John

    Audie Murphy recalled after the D-Day landings:

    Different D-Day. Murphy landed in the south of France in Operation Dragoon, not at Normandy.

  181. C.L.

    Roosevelt tackled the Great Depression with gusto, enacting a series of laws fixing the banks, relieving poverty and putting Americans back to work in his first 100 days of office.

    He didn’t ‘tackle’ anything.
    Roosevelt was an idiot who worsened the Depression and took advantage of it to aggrandise himself.

  182. Knuckle Dragger

    Good work Pedro.

    Getting a crop in, or assisting in the process I found to be one of the most satisfying things I’ve ever done.

    Never got a cheque though. Massive thumbs up for putting yours in the place you did.

    *applause*

  183. Rex Anger

    He didn’t ‘tackle’ anything.
    Roosevelt was an idiot who worsened the Depression and took advantage of it to aggrandise himself.


    Are you suggesting FDR was Kevin’ before it was popular? Obama!

    How Rudd-y typical!

  184. Stimpson J. Cat

    the issue is frustratingly complex and beyond my ability to comprehend.

    Well, yes.

    This shows you have insight Mitch.

    😁

  185. cohenite

    The secret to successfully dealing with such things is discipline of the self,
    will(it is a finite resource and must be renewed and replenished),
    insight, and most important of all,
    humor.

    The secret is cheesecake.

  186. Stimpson J. Cat

    No. The secret is properly tested psychotropic medication, regular follow-up with the treating psychiatrist, and supervised living arrangements if the mentally person has trouble functioning.

    Imagine actually believing in chemical imbalance theory in 2020.

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ja ha!!!!

  187. MatrixTransform

    The secret is cheesecake

    … with a dash of what Pedro did

  188. MatrixTransform

    The secret is cheesecake ouzo.

    …dammit

  189. Knuckle Dragger

    Criminy.

    Mitch Starc’s having his arse handed to him.

  190. Stimpson J. Cat

    If you know how to help those people

    Look just so we are crystal clear,
    I am “those people”.

    Stop reading “genius” nerds with
    “groundbreaking studies of 20 participants.”
    😂

    If you would like to read something actually practical and useful,
    start with:
    The Heartland by Nathan Filer.
    Email Sinc for a copy, he has it.

    It’s very educational.

  191. Helen

    Well done Pedro. You are now a true local.

  192. Knuckle Dragger

    In fact, there’s a massive argument now for dropping* him for the third match.

    This over – NB(with a catch), 6,2,6,0,1,2. 0/82 from nine overs. Seeya.

    *’Resting’

  193. Top Ender

    Chief of the Defence Force Angus Campbell is working through a list of dozens of senior officers who led special forces soldiers at the centre of war crimes allegations to determine which commanders should be held accountable and how they will be punished.

    It includes former army chiefs, special operations commanders, task group leaders, Special Air Service Regiment commanding officers, and troop and squadron commanders.

    Those on the list received command medals and other awards, including Orders of Australia, for their leadership of special forces soldiers allegedly involved in the murders of 39 Afghan civilians and prisoners identified in the Brereton war crimes inquiry.

    Defence declined to comment on the document, saying it was working on “a comprehensive implementation plan” to act on the Brereton inquiry’s recommendations. But it has left open the possibility of demotions, sackings and the stripping of honours.

    There is growing urgency to the process, amid a backlash over the stripping of Meritorious Unit Citations from 3000 special forces soldiers, and a warning from Scott Morrison that he expects senior officers to be held to account.

    Former SASR commanders and those who held the role of Special Operations Commander Australia (SOCAUST) are likely to come under heavy scrutiny, Defence sources said.

    Senior Defence leaders continued to authorise honours and awards for special forces commanders even after serious problems were uncovered in the elite military units, The Australian can also reveal.

    General Campbell and Chief of Army Rick Burr — in their former roles as chief and deputy chief of army — approved a June 2015 Order of Australia for Lieutenant Colonel Greg Daley, who led SASR from 2012 to 2014.

    The award — to “Lieutenant Colonel G” due to his protected identity at the time — said his “visionary leadership” of SASR “has directly led to the special operations community being viewed as the force of choice by government for sensitive and strategic missions”.

    This was despite a March 2015 directive from then-Major General Burr acknowledging: “A series of recent notifiable incidents at SASR have demonstrated shortcomings in governance, security, safety and administration within SOCOMD (Special Operations Command)”.

    Multiple sources have confirmed that when incoming SOCAUST Jeff Sengelman queried Perth-based SASR soldiers in June 2015 over the poor state of the regiment, one sergeant replied: “Sir, why are you kicking us in the arse when our former (commanding officer) just got a gong?”

    Colonel Daley’s former commander from September 2013 to December 2014, Major General Daniel McDaniel, was promoted in 2019 to serve as deputy commander of the US Army’s Indo-Pacific Command.

    The Australian is not suggesting Colonel Daley or General McDaniel had knowledge of alleged war crimes committed by Australian soldiers in Afghanistan, only that they were in senior command roles during periods of identified cultural failings.

    The Inspector General of the Australian Defence Force inquiry undertaken by NSW Supreme Court judge Paul Brereton found the alleged murders involving 25 current or former ADF personnel did not take place in “the heat of battle” and were instead the result of a perverted “warrior culture”.

    While there was no credible information that troop, squadron and task group commanders knew or suspected that a particular alleged war crime was occurring, Justice Brereton concluded they should “bear moral command responsibility and accountability for what happened under their command and control”.

    The report notes that “some domestic commanders of (the) SASR bear significant responsibility for contributing to the environment in which war crimes were committed” by allowing a “warrior culture” to develop.

    At least 30 senior officers occupied command roles over the course of the war, either in Afghanistan or in Australia as SOCAUST or SASR commanders. The Brereton report found responsibility for the alleged war crimes he identified “does not extend to higher headquarters”, including the position of Middle East commander held by General Campbell from 2011-12. Defence last week issued “show cause” notices to 13 SASR soldiers implicated in alleged war crimes identified in the Brereton report — a right of reply before they are sacked.

    But a Defence spokeswoman on Sunday said it would take time to deal fully with the complex matters set out in the report. “Where the inquiry report identifies credible information of alleged misconduct, disciplinary or administrative action may be taken,” she said.

    “This may include actions to address command responsibility, culture, leadership and accountability at all levels in the chain of command.”

    A spokesman for Defence Minister Linda Reynolds said the process “requires comprehensive consultation across government and relevant agencies”.

    The now-retired Major General Sengelman, who declined to comment, identified cultural and command problems in SASR soon after he took the role of SOCAUST in December 2014 and relayed them to Lieutenant General David Morrison, the then-chief of army.

    In an email to General Morrison in May 2015, General Sengelman warned of “serious endemic problems” with SOCOMD.

    “This exposes Defence to a risk of not being able to undertake the range of special operations missions required to support Australia’s national interests,” General Sengelman wrote.

    In a September 2015 letter to General Campbell, General Sengelman noted a longstanding culture of alcohol abuse in SASR had been tolerated by commanders. It included anonymous comments volunteered by soldiers detailing “systemic” consumption of alcohol on operations by soldiers and senior officers, and revealed the existence of an on-base pub known as the Fat Lady’s Arms.

    One soldier said: “I drank alcohol contrary to army policy … I witnessed this behaviour at all levels of command and therefore was not of the opinion that what I was doing was wrong.”

    The ADF has already abolished the SASR’s troubled 2 Squadron — one of four — after it was singled out amid.

    But the Prime Minister said last week he wanted accountability not only for individual alleged war crimes “but also in the chain of command”. “That’s what I’ve made very clear through the Defence Minister, who has made that point to both the Chief of the Defence Force as well as the oversight panel,” Mr Morrison said.

    Oz entire article

  194. Chief of the Defence Force Angus Campbell is working through a list of dozens of senior officers who led special forces soldiers at the centre of war crimes allegations to determine which commanders should be held accountable and how they will be punished.

    Is the list by current rank or alphabetical?
    Just wondering if he’s near the top at “C-Campbell” or right at the top, coz now Chief of Defence Force.

  195. Mark A

    An pro-blond tale?

    Two Irishmen were standing at the base of a flagpole, looking up.
    A blonde walks by and asked them what they were doing

    Paddy replied, ‘We’re supposed to be finding the height of this
    flagpole, but we don’t have a ladder..’

    The blonde took out an adjustable spanner from her bag, loosened a
    few bolts and laid the flagpole down.
    She got a tape measure out of her pocket, took a few measurements
    and announced that it was 18 feet 6 inches.
    Then, she walked off.

    Mick said to Paddy, ‘Isn’t that just like a blonde!’
    We need the bloody height, and she gives us the length

  196. Old School Conservative

    wivenhoe
    #3675092, posted on November 29, 2020 at 8:28 pm
    .Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve. Unfortunately at the moment, I can not recall whom to h/t.

    “Think and Grow Rich”, Napoleon Hill.

  197. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Pondering recent events, I have decided the cheque will go to the SAS Resources Fund.

    Well done, Pedro. I found seeding and harvest the most rewarding times of the year.

  198. Pedro, Well done. Downright decent of you, all round.
    I’m almost jealous.
    Only ‘almost’ – coz the memory is strong of the itch of [insert crop type here] dust.

  199. Knuckle Dragger

    Multiple sources have confirmed that when incoming SOCAUST Jeff Sengelman queried Perth-based SASR soldiers in June 2015 over the poor state of the regiment, one sergeant replied: “Sir, why are you kicking us in ‘the arse when our former (commanding officer) just got a gong?”’

    Brilliant. Never ask the top knobs, always ask the sergeants.

  200. Stimpson J. Cat

    Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve.
    Unfortunately at the moment, I can not recall whom to h/t.

    “Think and Grow Rich”, Napoleon Hill.

    Unfortunately this is not true.

    If it was, I would have published:

    Think And Grow Hair, by Stimpson J. Cat.

  201. Dot

    I think Johnny had a fair bit to do with that himself.

    No.

    Heard is a lying, unfaithful, perjuring, physically abusive whore who ruined a man who genuinely loved her.

    His drug abuse never stopped his career beforehand.

    Her “case” and getting away with it are absolute travesties.

    This is why you hope there is a god and eternal judgment.

  202. Dot

    The West is fucked

    The word is spreading!

  203. C.L.

    Life goes on…
    A Benedictine monastery is founded and under construction in Tasmania.
    They’re well short of their funding goal but they’ll get there, I’m sure:

    https://www.notredamemonastery.org/aid-main

    And to think we ‘give’ a billion a year to the ABC.

  204. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    These would be more your style.

    Good Lord. He’s at it again. Pictures of the SS.
    I thought Sinc gave him a warning about this sort of thing.
    I think any argument he has to make is lost.
    Get outa here, Numbers. You are a sad case.

    I don’t want the SS in my army.
    But I do want some hard men there, soldiering.
    Not dithering idiots and communists at heart.

  205. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Heard is a lying, unfaithful, perjuring, physically abusive whore’

    Who shit in the bed of the man that loved her, paid all her bills and put up with her D grade wannabe A grade celeb bullshit.

    She can get fucked.

    I was going to say this earlier but forgot.

  206. C.L.

    Not a big fan of Depp, sorry.
    They deserved each other.

  207. Leigh Lowe

    C.L.

    #3675202, posted on November 29, 2020 at 11:05 pm

    Not a big fan of Depp, sorry.
    They deserved each other.

    If you are looking for honesty, integrity and faithfulness in that household, it was a bobbing finish between Pistol and Boo, with daylight third.

  208. Knuckle Dragger

    From an earlier theme – 18 days to Day 1 of the First Test, and (Focks):

    ‘Warner hurt himself diving to field a ball early in India’s chase, immediately grabbing at his groin before attempting to walk the injury off. It quickly became clear that would not be possible, with the team physio called on to escort him of the field for a more thorough examination. He was taken for scans during the game although the results may not be known until Monday.

    ‘Groin strains typically take within two to six weeks to recover from depending upon the severity of the injury, which would put him in serious risk of missing the first Test of the Border-Gavaskar series on December 17.

    “Not good signs there for David Warner,” Adam Gilchrist said on Fox Cricket. “He is in a bit of trouble here. This is a big moment here for the summer really because a bad groin strain can take a long time to heal.

    ‘Former fast bowler Brett Lee, who battled groin injuries in his career, had serious concerns. “Without pre-empting things it doesn’t look good at all. He could have even potentially ripped it off the bone the way he is walking.”’

    Happy fucking days.

  209. Knuckle Dragger

    ‘Good Lord. He’s at it again. Pictures of the SS.’

    Yep. He gets more demented when painted into corners.

  210. Leigh Lowe

    Johnny Depp will be doing Jack Sparrow appearances opening shopping centres and theme parks at $500 a throw until he dies.

  211. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    “Think and Grow Rich”, Napoleon Hill.

    Unfortunately this is not true.

    If it was, I would have published:

    Think And Grow Hair, by Stimpson J. Cat.

    The think-yourself-slim movement seems to be growing apace though Stimpy, if the ads I see on TV for things like Noom (whatever that is) are what it is all about.

    A very stern Doc (not my old faithful O’Oirish) has said to me I have to lose five kilos and weigh in by January in order to earn my oestrogen script. I am busy thinking myself out of the Covid/Fracture avoirdupois.

    Red wine doesn’t count, does it? Especially at Christmas.

    I have a lunch next week for which we had to pre-order. I took the seafood salad and the sorbets to follow. Now that is not $50 worth in anyone’s book. I would usually take the stuffed roulette of lamb on creamed potato mash and the sticky date pudding. So I am making sacrifices already. And where’s my medal for all the thinking slim that I am already doing? Beats Dr. BG’s 600 calorie including wine diet.

    Good to see you back here helping things along, Stimpy. At Christmastide it is all hands on deck.

  212. Leigh Lowe

    Good Lord. He’s at it again. Pictures of the SS.
    I thought Sinc gave him a warning about this sort of thing.

    Makes you wonder why Sinc doesn’t arsehole him.
    Cuts him too much slack because he once outsmarted himself and got a tropical blanket-folding holiday.

  213. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    I think any argument he has to make is lost.
    Get outa here, Numbers. You are a sad case.

    Do try and understand his plight. He fell for the Party line, hook, line and sinker fifty years ago, and hasn’t read anything written in the past twenty years, with access to the North Vietnamese archives, to discover how completely he was fooled.

  214. Mark A

    Leigh Lowe
    #3675207, posted on November 29, 2020 at 11:14 pm

    Johnny Depp will be doing Jack Sparrow appearances opening shopping centres and theme parks at $500 a throw until he dies.

    I can’t recall watching any of his movies but that goes for all movies so means nothing, but he must have been popular with movie goers.

    Depriving him of a livelihood is a cruel punishment.
    I’m not aware of the charges but, what is he being accused of?

  215. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Pondering recent events, I have decided the cheque will go to the SAS Resources Fund.

    Good on you, Pedro. Consider yourself an honorary member of the Retired Persons Keep Yourself Busy Club. My rewards for effort get plowed back into Quadrant for which I accept no payment (like most other contributors I suspect) and I find funds for a few other minor donative activities I have.

    Hairy’s British rellies have asked that all presents this Christmas should be put into charities, which by agreement we will do. Funny though, about ten years back when I sent their two teenagers certificates saying I had purchased a World Vision goat and pig for them respectively, they didn’t seem to pleased so I went back to joolery and wallets the next year, wrapped for excitement and committed to Australia Post. Glad they have finally come round at last to spreading the good cheer more widely.

    At coffee the other day, all the grandma girls were of one mind – all of the grandkid teens want money, or at the least, itune cards or similar, whether they are earning a little or not. I still buy each grandkid one big present, although I ask the older ones what they would like to get. Other kids in ambit get itune cards.

  216. Leigh Lowe

    ‘Former fast bowler Brett Lee, who battled groin injuries in his career, had serious concerns. “Without pre-empting things it doesn’t look good at all. He could have even potentially ripped it off the bone the way he is walking.”’

    Happy fucking days.

    Indeed.
    Couldn’t happen to a nicer cheating ranga.
    As I say, I hope he bullies his way into the First Test side and promptly blows up, preferably via a sharp single called by Burns.

  217. Leigh Lowe

    Depriving him of a livelihood is a cruel punishment.
    I’m not aware of the charges but, what is he being accused of?

    Domestic violence.
    As far as livliehood goes, that’s Hollywood.
    A brilliant actress who is too short, or whose tits are too big, or too small, or whose ‘look’ is so last year doesn’t get work.
    If producers think Depp is no longer bankable at the box office, it is game over.
    A lot of actors are shelved for a lot less.
    Truth is, he will probably re-invent himself as a stage actor and work his way back that way.

  218. EvilElvis

    has said to me I have to lose five kilos and weigh in by January in order to earn my oestrogen script.

    I hate it when the doc goes down that road. Blackmailing bastards!

  219. Leigh Lowe

    has said to me I have to lose five kilos and weigh in by January in order to earn my oestrogen script.

    I hate it when the doc goes down that road. Blackmailing bastards!

    Phhht.
    Ignore him.
    They are saying that to everybody.
    Passing fad.

  220. jupes

    Chief of the Defence Force Angus Campbell is working through a list of dozens of senior officers who led special forces soldiers at the centre of war crimes allegations to determine which commanders should be held accountable and how they will be punished.

    It includes former army chiefs, special operations commanders, task group leaders, Special Air Service Regiment commanding officers, and troop and squadron commanders.

    Anyone recall who was the commander of JTF 633 in 2011/12?

    That would be the gormless twit Angus Campbell himself. Right about now, he would be starting to realise the seriousness of what he foolishly unleashed. Sure, it’s unlikely that he will be in serious trouble, or even have his DSC stripped but he is unlikely to leave the ADF in a blaze of glory and will have to tap-dance to keep his gong. Hopefully he is reflecting on the craven stupidity of accepting the Brereton report as gospel before any allegation has been proven.

  221. Leigh Lowe

    Anyone recall who was the commander of JTF 633 in 2011/12?

    That would be the gormless twit Angus Campbell himself. 

    Gosh.
    This is getting awkward.

  222. stackja

    I gather the angry private is posting this Sunday evening. Scrolling, scrolling, scrolling…

  223. stackja

    Regarding Afghan events. Certain people make allegations about the past. Little if any real proof. Reminds of Lindy and GP.

  224. Cold-Hands

    Has Betfair closed the books on the US Presidential result in Australia? I tried to get on (again) tonight to take advantage of the 20-1 on offer & received the following message:

    The following bet(s) could not be placed: Most likely this is due to you being located in a country where we currently can’t offer our services. If you have questions please contact our Helpdesk at [email protected].

    Tried a couple of different browsers which didn’t help… anyone else have this problem?

  225. Mitch M.

    If you would like to read something actually practical and useful,
    start with:
    The Heartland by Nathan Filer.
    Email Sinc for a copy, he has it.

    It’s very educational.

    I don’t buy books anymore so I’ve ordered it from the library.

  226. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
    #3674848, posted on November 29, 2020 at 3:34 pm
    Once the My Lai bad deeds became known it took only 18 months for the US to successfully prosecute the perpetrators

    How long did it take to successfully prosecute the perpetrators of the Hue massacres of 1968?

    Longer than you might think.

    The extent of the massacre of everyone in the City of Hue who had the slightest connection to the RVN government took a long time to validate. Ironically, it was the school teachers who were the first to have their hands wired behind their back and taken to the ditch…

    By the time the ARVN 1st Division had retaken the city. With some assistance from the US Army and Marines, everything was broken. The immediate priority was to re-establish essential services.

    The mass executions that took place by the communists in February and March 1968 were still being investigated into 1969 as the mass graves were discovered. Much of the grim accounting for Hue was passed to Australian Officers of the AATTV. Given the media backlash and hostility immediately following Tet Offensive (The Cronkite effect) involving Australians in that process was thought at the time to add to ‘transparency.’

    There are a series of photographs in the AWM collections that feature AATTV’s Major Gordon Brown watching as Vietnamese women say prayers over the remains of clothing found in a mass grave many months later, in 1969. Brown was responsible for co-ordinating the search for the mass graves of communist victims.

    In this photo Brown can be readily identified by his slouch hat. About 250 communist victims of the 3-6,000 killed were found just in that one mass grave. By the time that an authoritative Australian guestimate of the murders in Hue could be made Seymour Hersh had broken Mai Lai story. The appalling crimes committed by elements of the US 23rd Division in Mai Lai occurred in January 1968. It wasn’t until November 1969 Hersh informed the world of this terrible event.

    There was a lag between the reporting of the massacre at Mai Lai just as there was with the reporting of the massacre at Hue.

    Up until Hersh broke the Mai Lai story, the biggest scandal story pushed was the prosecution of the US Sergeant Major of the Army William O Wooldridge Wooldridge, learnt his scamming practice as a penny ante arbitrage operator during the Korean War. He developed this into an operation worth $150 million annually by 1969. (I come to Cat as an economist but stay for the Vietnam ;)) It was an epic rort.

    My Lai knocked William O Wooldridge off the front pages in the same way news of the Hue massacre was overshadowed by the tragic events of Mai Lai.

    As an aside and because it is somewhat connected and relevant. As far as I’m aware only one Australian was stripped of his awards for malfeasance of any kind for service in Vietnam. It was a 6RAR Sergeant on their first tour that lost his BEM when he got sprung for the similar sort of arbitrage rort Wooldridge was pulling in Korea. I always thought it was tad harsh.

    There is at least one precedent for withdrawing a minor individual award but withdrawing a Unit Commendation? Never happened before. A bold concept. A bold and very stupid ‘collective punishment’ concept…

    Now that we have completely established that there is lag between bad things that happen during war and the reporting of those events. Let’s examine another Vietnam War Crime that the Brereton Commission tells us absolutely, 100%, take it to the bank, this definitely happened and it was a war crime…

    In October 1966 an Australian Intelligence Corp Warrant Officer Ken Borland interrogated a captured Viet Cong soldier. Her name was To Thi Nau, she was the head of the communist Military Proselytising Committee in Hoa Long. It is claimed, without any evidence that Borland tortured To Thi Nau with water at the 1ATF base at Nui Dat. It was not until March 1968 in the aftermath of the great Tet offensive media reset that journalist Martin Russ alleged that To Thi Nau was subjected to water torture by Borland.

    What fearless reporting the world received from Martin Russ. 18 months after the event…

    The Brereton report maintains that Borland’s interrogation of To Thi Nau constituted a war crime. The Brereton report includes this episode because it’s authors have been given the brief that they need to establish a narrative that ‘this has been going on for years’. Extraordinary claims by the likes of Martin Russ require extraordinary standards of evidence. Martin Russ merely alleges.

    Russ was literally “outside the tent”.

    The authors of the Brereton Report took Russ’s belated water torture claims and turned them into war crimes gospel. This is wrong.

    The authors of the Brereton Report have made extraordinary claims. The authors of the Brereton Report need to demonstrate extraordinary standards of evidence.

    From all I’ve seen that they have produced so far, it’ll be a struggle

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