Is it worth it? Is it working?

TAFKAS just received a new year’s wishes call from one if his oldest friends who lives in New York.  Having been in essential near lock down for 9 months, she and her family got it.  This is TAFKAS’ first first person exposure.

In her house, TAFKAS’ friend lives with her husband, her 15 year old daughter, her 20 something son and the son’s girlfriend.  The son and girlfriend had a swanky apartment in Manhattan but moved back home for their voluntary lock down.  TAFKAS’ friend is in her mid 40s and the husband in his late 40s.

They live in New York, the state governed by close to the worst Governor (Cuomo) and close to the worst Mayor (De Blasio).

In these last 9 months, they went everywhere in masks and gloves.  Took no visitors into their home and visited no one.  They were extremely cautious, yet they got Covid.

The whole house got it, except the 15 year old.  Think on that.

They did not go to the hospital and were not in the ICU.  They had bad symptoms for between 2-4 days, the worst of which were 2 of the people having migraines.  They lost the sense of taste and smell which has been the last thing to return.

But now, without vaccine or hydroxychloroquine or bleach or Remdesivir, they are back to almost full health.  And are about to go travelling … outside the US in an airplane.  Think on that.

In Australia, with less than 100 infections in a country with 25% less land area than the US and 7-8% of the population, our governments want to imprison us, impoverish our children and demand that we surrender our natural rights.

Our international borders are effectively closed, the state borders are partially closed and the public and private debt flows freely.  The Charlatans of Martin Place have the monetary printing presses working hard.

So TAFKAS asks, is it worth it? Is it working?

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208 Responses to Is it worth it? Is it working?

  1. entropy says:

    No, but the fear it dominates. At my fathers house atm. The poor bugger has been on his own since Mum died with nothing but ABC24 on at high volume. Needless to say he is very, very frightened of COVID.
    That said at his age and risk factors it would probably do him in.

  2. Old School Conservative says:

    So TAFKAS asks, is it worth it? Is it working?

    Depends on for whom it is working.
    Politicians – yes.
    Billionaires – yes.
    Public servants – yes.
    Average Australians – no.

  3. Snirtus says:

    What is the end game here?
    Do they think they can stop a virus?
    In the beginning we agreed to flatten the curve so the health system could cope.
    Where is the scientific evidence that lockdowns & mask wearing achieve anything?
    If 99% survive the damn thing and the health system is not overwhelmed (it appears to be less used than in normal years), what is all this panic about.
    These same fear mongers are those that think the can change the temperature of the planet.
    Surely there must be some sane people somewhere?

  4. thefrollickingmole says:

    is it worth it? Is it working?

    For whom?

    Old School Conservative has it about right.

  5. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    So will your friend and their family/hangers on stop voting for the dumbocrats?

  6. calli says:

    Nevah! For behold, they are Safe!

  7. They are Australians. They don’t get to vote.

  8. H B Bear says:

    The most politicised disease since AIDS. Not sure what the end game is here. Suspect we are not there yet.

  9. David says:

    Goals: popularity, re-election, membership of the political establishment and lifelong pension.

    Until one of these is threatened, nothing will change.

  10. Bruce says:

    It is essentially incitement.

    The idea is to stress the peasants out to the point that, probably with a little “nudging”, some lost soul goes “postal”.

    Then it will get a WHOLE LOT more “interesting” in a Chinese Curse sort of way. Blackly ironic, because a biological Chinese Curse is the ostensible reason for all this official sociopathy.

    Can’t happen? Two words:

    Horst Wessel.

    2020 rolls on, as planned.

  11. WX says:

    The Truth is whatever message is communicated most effectively to the receiver. There are various elements to that, including: repetition (from the same or other sources); reference to past, similar messages; appeal to authority and/consensus; etc. The point, however, is that the effective delivery of a message is a pre-requisite for it being considered truthful. The content comes second.

    As one of the stars of the television show Mythbusters occasionally stated: “I reject your reality, and substitute my own.” It reads and sounds like a glib retort and a perfect merchandising opportunity, however it also provokes an examination of why messages are tailored to differing audiences or markets: People want to have their values/belief system validated, and to feel as though they are acceptable to whatever tribe they identify with. They will accept a certain level of coercion and discomfort as a trade-off.

  12. Snoopy says:

    They are Australians. They don’t get to vote.

    WTF? Salvadoran’s do.

  13. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    They are Australians. They don’t get to vote.

    WTF? Salvadoran’s do.

    Not to mention the dead.

  14. JC says:

    The Charlatans of Martin Place have the monetary printing presses working hard.

    Presumably you don’t believe this is working. Can you explain why and where you see the problems. Itemize them please.

  15. Natural Instinct says:

    No it’s not – because there is no end that will satisfy the beast.
    The bar has been set at 0.
    And assuming an asymptomatic function the inputs can be upped and extended adfinitum and still one case will pop up.
    So the farce must continue and if you dont toe the line you are a selfish cold hearted barstard who deserves to be doxed
    .
    I cannot see a circuit breaker.

  16. entropy says:

    It works until the reckoning comes JC. You and I will be handing a country where its citizens are less free and independent, more censorious and with less discretionary incomes than we had. And with an enormous personal and public debt which will end up constraining whatever else they try to do.

    While I have been plagued with ABC24 all day at Dad’s, there was a segment on the year 2000. A true high point and it has been downhill ever since.

  17. Ragu says:

    Key statistics

    116,345 doctor certified deaths occurred before 27 October. Deaths have been lower than average during the winter months in 2020.Respiratory disease deaths have been lower than historical minimums since June.

    https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release

  18. min says:

    Covid normal a post further down is a pictorial presentation of what lockdown did to Melbourne . It is very confronting and it still has not recovered . March , when jobkeeper etc finishes, there will be more devastation.

  19. MACK says:

    Big dilemma for the theoreticians – everything the academic “experts” have recommended has been tried in the developed world and there is no correlation between government interventions and outcomes. The fact is that structural issues are much more important than government interventions.
    Varying approaches to masks and lockdowns in US states show nothing makes any difference: “This study suggested that Stay-At-Home and long-term Mandatory Face Mask probably have limited effects in lowering transmission and fatality”
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219279v2.full

    Structural issues are fundamental: “This analysis shows that higher Covid-19 mortality rates are mostly found in countries with ….aging societies….higher GDP and chronic diseases levels (e.g., CardioVascularDisease and cancer) and major metabolic risk factors (e.g., inactive lifestyle, sedentarity, and obesity). High temperature and UV levels are associated with low death rates”
    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.604339/full

    Don’t expect to see or hear any of this in the mainstream media any time soon. It’s just too complicated for the average modern journalist.

  20. Ragu says:

    Where’s Numberwang when we need some rock solid statistical inference?

  21. @JC

    Presumably you don’t believe this is working. Can you explain why and where you see the problems. Itemize them please.

    TAFKAS does believe it is working. But TAFKAS does not believe the benefit exceeds the cost.

    Notwithstanding, the burden of proof is not on TAFKAS. The burden of proof is on the Charlatans to demonstrate that the bloating of the their balance sheet through money printing, they can call it whatever they like, QE, QE2, MMT, Lemonade, is in the interests of all Australians – and will they put their INDEXED DEFINED BENEFIT PENSIONS PAID FOR BY TAX PAYERS on the line.

    When you are on a government guaranteed indexed pension linked to your last near $1m annual salary, you don’t tend to be too sensitive to inflation risk.

    Perhaps you might itemize why you think it is working. Please disclose also if you are on or will be on a government guaranteed indexed pension. Conflicts of interest you know.

  22. Helen says:

    The thing is we are now conditioned to lock down as a response to an emergency. In this case it was covid – what will it be next time?

    The pollies will be addicted, how easy to reach for the red switch next time, the power, the thrill of it all.

  23. JC says:

    Spart

    We’ve been through this before, I think, but no matter.

    Our entire economic system is sticky … ie sticky prices. Our labor market is so sticky it ought to be considered as solid as glass. Our goods and services markets are also sticky to the labor markets. We had (seriously) significant deflation heading our way without QE. All QE has done is perhaps go someway towards stabilizing nominal income/ GDP though this mess.

    Food for thought. You don’t want significant deflation in sticky economy as the consequences are 1929/32 where the US economy was sawed in half.

    Are there costs? Yea. Assets prices are generally inflated and return on capital is stretched. We can live with that.

  24. EllenG says:

    Anecdotes don’t cut it.

  25. @JC

    We can live with that.

    Who is this we Kemosabe? You must have assets and capital.

    Can you please, for the benefit of transparency, advise whether you are the beneficiary of or eligible to be a beneficiary of a government guaranteed indexed defined benefit pension.

  26. Bones says:

    A nation of lions led by donkeys?

  27. JC says:

    Can you please, for the benefit of transparency, advise whether you are the beneficiary of or eligible to be a beneficiary of a government guaranteed indexed defined benefit pension.

    Yea , hugely so.

    Just kidding, no I’m not.

    Now have a go at the questions I asked you.

  28. Damon says:

    No. Lacking any co-morbidities, elders should be no more susceptible than anyone else, in which case, they should take whatever precautions they deem necessary to protect themselves. That’s not a function of government.

  29. nb says:

    Tim Poole: Mayor Resigns In Fear As Backlash Erupts Over COVID Lockdown, America Near Full Revolt Over Lockdown.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhTvw3LPDj4

  30. Entropy says:

    Are there costs? Yea. Assets prices are generally inflated and return on capital is stretched. We can live with that.

    If you have accumulated assets all your life, or better inherited them, it sure is easy to live with that. Try being someone from the wrong side of the tracks trying to make something of themselves.

    What all this money expansion does is make the rich asset holding class richer at the expense of the great unwashed.

    The class that would love nothing better than to have the masses renting apartments in city towers built and owned by the asset class, driven in subscription based electric car services, eating at franchise restaurants and buying their goods and services from major corporations. An UBI would be just the thing to keep the unwashed busy and under control too.

  31. nb says:

    I love the lockdowns because they protect people from colds. They also have the benefit of destroying the economy, and that will lead us to the dream of totalitarian state socialism, with China at the helm. I guess the only question I have is just how many Australians will the Chinese decide to kill. I mean, they killed 100 million of their own and still worship Mao, so I guess destroying the entire population of Australia would only result in hero status for those carrying out the work. Well, we all die in the end, and keeping us alive for later slaughter is all in a day’s work for a communist.

  32. JC says:

    If you have accumulated assets all your life, or better inherited them, it sure is easy to live with that. Try being someone from the wrong side of the tracks trying to make something of themselves.

    Okay, let’s try the opposite. The central bank leaves policy alone, deflation takes holds and sends asset prices reeling downwards. Mr. Wrong Side of the Tracks of course not only holds onto his his job, but receives lot’s of overtime and big wage increases. Or perhaps he doesn’t and loses his job 🙂

    What all this money expansion does is make the rich asset holding class richer at the expense of the great unwashed.

    Not always. Again look at a real estate boom in Texas. Booms in Texas don’t reflect through prices increases, but through increased supply.

    The class that would love nothing better than to have the masses renting apartments in city towers built and owned by the asset class, driven in subscription based electric car services, eating at franchise restaurants and buying their goods and services from major corporations. An UBI would be just the thing to keep the unwashed busy and under control too.

    That’s one big storyline there Ent.

  33. MatrixTransform says:

    Mr. Wrong Side of the Tracks of course not only holds onto his his job, but receives lot’s of overtime and big wage increases

    Oh, JC …

  34. MatrixTransform says:

    with my last wage increase, I bought a jetski

  35. John A says:

    The Artist Formerly Known As Spartacus #3705639, posted on January 1, 2021, at 6:50 pm

    They are Australians. They don’t get to vote.

    Ask them who is casting a vote “on their behalf” and get him/them to stop.

    Maybe they could apply some pressure, say by telling the miscreants that they have had Covid and could infect the felons. 🙂

  36. Ben says:

    Maybe we need to think bigger about the true purpose of lockdowns, what are the advantages and to whom, and for what purposes?

    What could make governments (well… politicians) capitulate to this level? Some might believe it’s in their own interests, but are they just useful idiots being manipulated?

    COVID is just not that scary.

  37. mh says:

    Australia spent 2020 in economic recession, and the federal debt is forecast to peak at 1.7 trillion AUD after being nil in 2007.
    Great work RBA.
    Really excellent stuff.

  38. Joanna Smythe says:

    The State Premiers are loving every minute of their power and popularity. The media are loving every minute of the power and fearmongering they are piling on us day after day, so of course it’s working. That’s the plan. Total compliance of the population.

  39. Boris says:

    And yet as bad as it is, economic impact of all this in Australia pales in comparison with that in the US and all European counties. I agree Australia overreacted but it is better to be safe than sorry.

    In WA we basically live normal life (with the exception of travel), while in most other places they mostly work from home. I think on balance our situation is far better. At least all my friends say so, inluding those who just returned from Canary Islands back to Germany.

  40. jupes says:

    In WA we basically live normal life (with the exception of travel), while in most other places they mostly work from home. I think on balance our situation is far better.

    You have to apply for permission to leave the fucking state! That is communist level tyranny.

    At least all my friends say so

    Fuckwits.

    You live in a state where the government grants you permission to go to pub. They can withdraw that permission at any time. They have before and will no doubt do it again as soon as one person catches a bug that in 99% of cases is mild and that the average age of death is 85. For people to accept that shit is the reason why they do it.

    Give yourself and your friends an uppercut. FMD

  41. Fair Shake says:

    I live in Melbourne and caught up with friends yesterday. To a person that all felt the nsw border shutdown had not been quick enough. They seriously feel threatened by this flu.
    Dandrews will romp it back in. We are doomed.

  42. MarcH says:

    Rejected at The Oz…
    The ABC and it’s squad of Karen’s, lead by head nanny Norman Swan, harangue the NSW Premier to make masks mandatory. If you are so scared of catching the virus you feel the need to wear an ineffective mask every waking minute then stay at home. Don’t impose your irrational germaphobia on the rest of us.

  43. rickw says:

    Look at this fucking stupidity. Every bloody stupid pig on the border should have been shot for their complete disregard for commonsense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9t_KKfOr_s

  44. Texas Jack says:

    Was the slip into media-initiated authoritarianism worth it? Someone mentioned Cuomo and De Blasio. Their political stocks have actually been boosted despite their Andrews-like bumbling. None of this is worth the risk that COVID-19 is just the first rung on a big ladder to some kind of mass Stockholm Syndrome.

  45. EllenG says:

    A confluence of robust intellects all completely satisfied they know better than medical science, which has been clear as a bell on this issue. You can all entertain your conspiracy thoughts to your hearts content but the reality is that people will typically follow expert advice. Right now the citizens of the US and UK are experiencing the consequences of political decisions that ignore the science.
    I’m sure many of you think you’re conservatives, but this sort of thinking belongs in he Ganja induced haze if nimbin circa 1970.

  46. jupes says:

    … medical science, which has been clear as a bell on this issue.

    Sure it has, first medical science was for masks, then against them, then for them again.
    Medical science says social distancing should be 1.5 meters in Australia, but only one meter in France.
    Medical science says restrictions are required for everything except BLM rallies.
    Medical science says any more than 10 people at a funeral will spread the virus, unless you are Aboriginal then 80 people can attend safely.
    Medical science says that 30,ooo people at Optus Stadium is safe but 30,001 is dangerous.
    Medical science says crossing a border to attend a funeral is dangerous but crossing a border to deliver goods is safe.
    Medical science says that being outside is safe between the hours of 6 am to 8 pm is safe but from 8 pm to 6am is dangerous.

    You idiot.

  47. flyingduk says:

    at my fathers house atm. …… Needless to say he is very, very frightened of COVID…That said at his age and risk factors it would probably do him in.

    Make sure he is taking vitamin D and plenty of it, at least 1000 U/d, and gets his levels checked. He needs to be on the high end of the ‘normal range’ – ie around 125nmol/l …. there have been ZERO covid deaths amongst people with high vitamin D levels, regardless of age and co- morbidities. It is a crime that our wise medical masters are not telling us this. Japan, with the oldest population in the world, has few deaths and very high vitamin D levels. In northern Italy, 75% of the elderly population has catastrophically low levels.

  48. 1735099 says:

    So TAFKAS asks, is it worth it? Is it working?

    Yep.
    US – deaths per million = 1072
    Australia – Deaths per million =35
    US economy stats.
    Australian economy stats.

  49. OldOzzie says:

    Is is Worth It? Is It Working?

    No – Previously posted on Thread below.

    The Following Johannes Leak Cartoon from The Australian Editorial December 30 2020 sums up my feelings.

    Australia has been cowered through the Pandemic Panic Media to destroy our Economy

    In my own Family of Wife, 2 Daughters, Son and their Spouses and 9 Grandkids, I am an outlier against lockdowns – All Grandkids have suffered, especially the Melbourne ones, from fear and social isolation thorugh school lockdowns and not being able to have friends over to play.

    As a 75+ with Comorbidities and regularly at RNSH for Cancer Treatment, I feel that I am responsible for my life, and it is my responsibliity to take any precautions with respect to Covid-19, not the State

    https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/2e1933d83acd88c2b4122cdb764af90d?width=1024

    The Following Comment from the above The Australian Editorial sums up my thoughts precisely

    From the Comments in The Australian Editorial with the Johannes Leak Cartoon

    Mandy
    2 hours ago

    The nominees for Coronavirus comment of the year are:

    > Gladys Berejiklian
    We need to live with COVID. Everytime there’s an outbreak you can’t shut down borders, disrupt lives, disrupt businesses, and we need to have confidence not just in our own system but the system in other states to be able to get on top of the virus.

    > Steve Waterson
    We’ve handed control of our lives to a clown car packed with idiots who have wasted billions trying to defeat this virus. They will never admit it was all for nothing.

    > James Allan
    Want to bet whether the response would have been less draconian had every politician and bureaucrat had to take a 20 per cent pay cut if businesses were shut down?

    > Peta Credlin
    For most Australians, I suspect, one of the big discoveries of 2020 would have been the extent to which our country is still a collection of separate states. Despite the slogan of being ‘all in it together’ and the creation of the so-called National Cabinet, an ineffectual PR exercise if ever there was one, when it came to dealing with the pandemic it was every state (and territory) for itself.

    > Henry Ergas
    It is, for instance, a fact that 92,000 Australians have died since the virus first hit our shores; but although COVID-19 accounts for only some 890 of those deaths, and for an even lower share of the total years of life lost, every new case leads the evening news, reinforcing its image as the grim reaper.

    > Tony Abbott
    For me, the recent 75th anniversary of the end of World War Two prompted this reflection: that generation: ready to risk life to preserve freedom; this generation: ready to risk freedom to preserve life.
    Yet we don’t think of our parents and our grandparents as too brave, do we; I wonder what judgment history will pass on us?

    The winner?

    An editorial in this newspaper nailed it recently –
    It is time for our elected leaders to take back the reins and accept responsibility for their actions.
    That is what responsible government means.

  50. OldOzzie says:

    flyingduk
    #3706042, posted on January 2, 2021 at 9:02 am

    at my fathers house atm. …… Needless to say he is very, very frightened of COVID…That said at his age and risk factors it would probably do him in.

    Make sure he is taking vitamin D and plenty of it, at least 1000 U/d, and gets his levels checked. He needs to be on the high end of the ‘normal range’ – ie around 125nmol/l …. there have been ZERO covid deaths amongst people with high vitamin D levels, regardless of age and co- morbidities.

    I would add Thorne Research Zinc Picolinate, 30 mg, Quercetin, NAC and Chewable Sugarless Vitamin C Tablets

  51. Kneel says:

    “…there have been ZERO covid deaths amongst people with high vitamin D levels, regardless of age and co- morbidities.”

    Yep, and most transmissions are indoors too.
    That’s why it’s important to stay inside, locked down.
    Obviously.
    </sarc>

  52. Twostix says:

    Right now the citizens of the US and UK are experiencing the consequences of political decisions that ignore the science.

    The UK is prison state in perpetual lockdown.

    You are insane, we’re not going to live in your selfish deranged open air prison camp.

  53. 1735099 says:

    The nominees for Coronavirus comment of the year are:

    Here’s mine –

    It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.

    Trump – Whitehouse briefing 27th February, 2020.

    The “disappearing” comment can be appropriately applied to Wednesday, 20th January 2021, when a much more insidiously dangerous virus will become irrelevant.

  54. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    jupes
    #3706038, posted on January 2, 2021 at 8:45 am

    Excellent work. The “medical science” is a complete crock of shit. Why idiots are still erupting into paroxysms of hysteria over a virus that has barely killed anybody is just embarrassing and ridiculous.

    But this was never really about “medical science” was it? Looks suspiciously like an excuse for braindead incompetent and arrogant politicians to give the plebs a taste of good ol’ totalitarianism (for the latter’s own good, of course).

    Now that the former have seen the almost total compliance by the latter with the most obscene restrictions on their rights and liberties, we’ll be forced to endure such totalitarian stupidity again and again, ad infinitum.

    When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  55. Twostix says:

    In WA we basically live normal life (with the exception of travel), while in most other places they mostly work from home. I think on balance our situation is far better. At least all my friends say so, inluding those who just returned from Canary Islands back to Germany.

    Sounds you’re feeling happy it’s just like back home behind the iron curtain ole boris “my uncle was a prominent bolshevik party member” g then.

  56. Twostix says:

    Qld has few restrictions and never wore masks.

    Christmas shopping period was jam packed shipping centres everywhere.

    No testing = No cases.

    The testing regime is broken.

  57. Brian Boru says:

    I detest the actions of Vic Pol like in handcuffing a compliant pregnant mother in her home in front of her children and taking her to a station when she could easily have been charged on summons.
    But I also go with Boris and Ellen G.

  58. Chris M says:

    But I also go with Boris and Ellen G.

    Enjoy; I imagine great fun to go out with.

    Make sure he is taking vitamin D and plenty of it, at least 1000 U/d, and gets his levels checked.

    D pills are a poor substitute for the real thing – it’s summer time so grab a little mid-day sun each day. Many many times more potent and effective. The reason the studies have not all been conclusive is that there are multiple other health benefits (immune, arterial, mental etc) from sunshine than just vit D (vD?)

  59. Twostix says:

    The maker of the PCR test stated it should never be used for clinical diagnoses.

    In communities where prevalence of a virus is low it will have a high rate of false positives.

    How many of the NSW “cases” actually got sick after their test?

    Why do they withhold these numbers?
    Qlders all know :
    May 27

    Nathan Turner death: race to find how young Queensland man contracted coronavirus in small town

    May 28:

    Nurse with coronavirus didn’t reveal trip to Malaysia, investigators work to ‘untangle changing story

    May 29:

    Blackwater coronavirus death sees nurse’s union accuse Queensland Government of witch-hunt

    June 2:

    Coronavirus false positive result for Blackwater man Nathan Turner prompts apology from Queensland Premier

    The poor nurse who was falsely “contact traced” to that false positive was getting death threats on the street from insane Karens like Ellen and BorisG here.

  60. OldOzzie says:

    Chris M
    #3706138, posted on January 2, 2021 at 10:33 am

    D pills are a poor substitute for the real thing – it’s summer time so grab a little mid-day sun each day. Many many times more potent and effective. The reason the studies have not all been conclusive is that there are multiple other health benefits (immune, arterial, mental etc) from sunshine than just vit D (vD?)

    Get Sun as often as possible, though not supposed too – Bit hard in Sydney at the moment with La Nina

  61. Twostix says:

    But I also go with Boris and Ellen G.

    Boris G comes from a bolshevik party aligned family and only left Russia after it stopped being a communist shithole.

    “Go with him” at your peril.

    Oh and we have a “Boris G” and an “Ellen G” posting here now, both karens in the same thread.

    Nobody ever accused russian communists of being imaginative.

    😂

  62. OldOzzie says:

    Pandemic reveals ugly Aussie is not an isolated case

    GEMMA TOGNINI

    COVID has shown us that voters will excuse an astronomical level of incompetence, excused by collective amnesia, and the subsequent human toll as long as they believe they’re being kept safe. Fear really is the opiate of the masses.

    The Victorian and West Australian governments again slammed the doors shut as the New Year arrived. No policy, no planning and no clue. The worst of decision making that threw tens of thousands of lives into chaos, a revolving state of turmoil. With the notable exception of NSW, nobody wants a national standard, because I’m guessing there’s no votes, no leverage in consensus. At times, it felt like some weird, continuous version of State of Origin, Hunger Games Style. No Australia, just faux nation-states and their leaders, beating their chests.

    It appears to be all about bread and circuses aka JobKeeper right now, but let me propose that it may be a different story come March when the bread runs out and the circus moves on.

    Changing one word in our National Anthem is well intentioned cosmetic surgery. Right now, we are anything but one and we are certainly not free.

  63. Struth says:

    The insanity does not abate with time, facts and what they can see with their own eyes. Fear kills reason and logic.
    There has not been an overall increase in deaths in any nation on earth this year.

    Numbers quotes the reclassification of deaths by socialists, as can only be the case if there have been no overall increase in deaths.
    Get that fucking fact through your thick fucking heads.
    Millions of oldies die every year, and the socialists are reclassifying some of them in the western countries they wish to destroy, it is that simple.
    Australians are simpletons who deserve all that is coming their way, and are now getting only the start of.
    26 million cases of a non lethal virus is still no justification for tyranny.
    Cases are irrelevant and if you have allowed yourself to be brainwashed by this insanity , you need to be smacked in the mouth, and treated like the compliant traitor you are.
    There is no acceptable reason for you to be brainwashed by such idiocy. You have a duty to your nation to stop being a fuckwit immediately, and help change this situation.

  64. Matt says:

    Struth

    There has not been an overall increase in deaths in any nation on earth this year.

    USA has had more deaths per 100,000 people (966) than any year since the 1940s (and the data is still not in yet for all of December). They are currently about 15% higher than the 5 year average. Sorry, but you are just wrong.

  65. 1735099 says:

    Sorry, but you are just wrong

    If you want “wrong”, you’ve come to the right blog.

  66. Mark M says:

    How can the government reduce ChiCom flu jobseeker/jobkeeper payments whilst simultaneously ramping up lockdown and useless mask wearing?

    Either the epidemic is over and payments ends or borders open up and the theater of the mask ends along with CCP flu payments.

  67. Bad Samaritan says:

    One more time for anyone still trying to convince themselves that Covid19 is a real thing…and dangerous too….Brett Sutton tells you how Victoria does it””

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQFRUzYMEyA&feature=youtu.be

  68. Struth says:

    Bullshit Matt, the problem with you buggars is you believe everything you are told by corrupt arseholes with vested interests. I suppose you’ll use the word “official” next because that’s always correct and totally uncorruptable.
    Here’s the clue……the USA was always going to get it bad and so was Brazil, I wonder why, do you?
    Well I don’t, but maybe you should have a think about it, you brainwashed pillock.

  69. OldOzzie says:

    Lampooning politicians and authority figures

    For a cartoonist, the COVID-19 pandemic was a rich vein of material when the surreal went mainstream.

    By JOHANNES LEAK

    Our political masters did their best to make cartoonists’ lives easy by providing us with ample displays of opportunism and hypocrisy not to mention an endless array of madcap policies often incompetently but brutally enforced. With little choice to accept these new decrees, people’s lives and livelihoods were thrown into disarray. Throw in politicians spraying eye-watering sums of money in every direction, 2020 gifted cartoonists with surreal and previously unimaginable scenarios.

    Best of Johannes Leak for 2020

  70. Matt says:

    And the problems with your ilk is that you pick and choose facts to suit your story. That way you can never be wrong about anything. If the data doesn’t suit your worldview, well then it must be corrupt data.

  71. 1735099 says:

    The USA was also going to get it bad, and so was Brazil? I wonder why?

    Because the USA and Brazil are led by populist narcissists who don’t give a stuff about their citizens.
    That’s about all they have in common.

  72. Struth says:

    The USA was also going to get it bad, and so was Brazil? I wonder why?

    Because the USA and Brazil are led by populist narcissists who don’t give a stuff about their citizens.
    That’s about all they have in common.

    There you go Matt, they even tell you why they fudge the figures.

  73. Struth says:

    And let’s skip to the real question here Matt, the figures whoever is right does not justify the tyranny or does it in your view?

  74. Bad Samaritan says:

    EllenG (8.19am) and all others in awe of medical practicioners: I can understand your fear….and also your hope that medical science will save you from one day dying of something…..

    My problem with medical science and medical experts is…..

    MODERN MEDICINE (CNBC)
    The third-leading cause of death in US most doctors don’t want you to know about
    PUBLISHED THU, FEB 22 20189:31 AM EST

    “A recent Johns Hopkins study finds more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
    Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.
    Advocates are fighting back, pushing for greater legislation for patient safety.”

    As you now know the actual reality of medicine (similar stats in Oz) you’ll now be a little less obedient.

    Nowhere near so clever as they claim to be, eh what?

  75. Struth says:

    To anyone with half a brain you can see exactly why the USA had to get it worse than other places. It’s people are more independant, understand and cherish their freedom, are generally more Christian, and are armed.
    They had to dial this up to eleventy for them. Australians are compliant hi viz morons, unarmed and looking to the government as their church already, a godless sheeple of fuckwits, they just have to be told there are cases….cases…..seriously, and they will do whatever they are told.

  76. Matt says:

    BadS

    My problem with medical science and medical experts is…..

    I could do a Struth and just say your data is corrupt. But that’s not new, and it applied to everything – humans (except apparently some Cats and economists) are fallible. Wouldn’t you know it, doctors sometimes make mistakes and people die. Pilots make mistakes and crash planes – and people die. Advocates are right to push for improvements (although I don’t know that legislation is the answer).

  77. Struth says:

    Australians have given away their freedoms and liberty and everything our forbears fought and died for…………for fear of catching a cold.
    That is the sickening reality.

  78. Matt says:

    Struth

    the figures whoever is right does not justify the tyranny or does it in your view?

    Define tyranny? At what point would you ever accept some of the measures that have been in place – when excess deaths reach 10%? 25%? 100% Never?

  79. A reader says:

    Well Gladys ‘ICAC’ B just threw away the last vestiges of liberalism in NSW. Full face nappies. In two days our Liberal PM has tried to appease the woke with the National Anthem bullshit and now our Liberal Premier has tried to appease the woke with mandatory masks. Neither of them are going to shut the twats up. They will just get louder. Don’t feed the fucking beast

  80. Boambee John says:

    Matt

    Wouldn’t you know it, doctors sometimes make mistakes and people die. Pilots make mistakes and crash planes – and people die.

    Doctors bury their mistakes, pilots are buried with theirs.

  81. rickw says:

    Dear Victorians,

    2021 can be different if you make it different.

    Stop wearing your stupid masks.

    Stop getting tested.

    Stop complying with complete BS.

  82. Struth says:

    Never.

  83. Matt says:

    Doctors bury their mistakes,

    And live with them too.

  84. Matt says:

    Thanks Struth

  85. Struth says:

    Quarantining is restricting the movement of the sick when they are contagious.
    Tyranny is restricting in any way shape or form the lawful rights and freedoms of the healthy.

  86. Struth says:

    This is pure tyranny Matt, and to accept any of it, indeed support it, is traitorous behaviour.

  87. Epicurious says:

    I live in hope that in my rapidly dwindling lifetime Charles Mackay’s claim that “Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one”.

    In the meantime I rely on the observations of 2 intellectual giants herein, rather than the low-IQ plotters in governments and the WEF.

    Vaccination is the greatest of all the modern illusions – Gandhi
    There is no vaccine against stupidity – Einstein

    and let’s never forget we have a vaccine so safe you need to be threatened to take it, for a virus so deadly you need to be tested to make sure you have it. Evil feeds on fear, fear feeds on mass manipulation.

    I can see the headlines next year:
    World hit with virus of stupidity.
    Einstein says there will never be a vaccine
    We’re all doomed!

    Wake up world or you really are doomed.

  88. Struth says:

    Supporting this, in my view, makes you an enemy of western civilisation, it really is that clear cut to me.
    This is communist/ old eastern block style tyranny, and to support any of it and not fight against it is traitorous behaviour in my view.
    We have a duty to fight it.

  89. Lee says:

    jupes

    #3706038, posted on January 2, 2021 at 8:45 am

    +1000

    You are correct, she is an “idiot,” following the government line, like a sheep.
    For someone so keen on following the experts, there are a great many who have disputed or demolished her so-called “experts.”

    … medical science, which has been clear as a bell on this issue.

  90. Entropy says:

    The class that would love nothing better than to have the masses renting apartments in city towers built and owned by the asset class, driven in subscription based electric car services, eating at franchise restaurants and buying their goods and services from major corporations. An UBI would be just the thing to keep the unwashed busy and under control too.

    That’s one big storyline there Ent.

    JC, I suggest you read CSIRO’s Australian National Outlook. It is exactly the future the boffins wish on everyone. Although they see it as a positive.

  91. 1735099 says:

    You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts.
    Struth has a plethora of both.
    Let’s check just one of them, though God knows, there are plenty more that don’t stand up –

    Struth writes (#3706164, posted on January 2, 2021 at 10:53 am) –

    There has not been an overall increase in deaths in any nation on earth this year.

    Let’s look at just one – the USA –

    Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths occurred from late January through October 3, 2020, with 198,081 (66%) excess deaths attributed to COVID-19. The largest percentage increases were seen among adults aged 25–44 years and among Hispanic or Latino persons.

    “Excess deaths” is a measure comparing average death rates (all causes) with 2020 death rates to date.
    Note – there is no reference to cause of death – just a listing. You can come to your own conclusions as to why an additional 198,081 Americans have died so far in 2020.

    The sources are the US Bureau of statistics and the CDC.

  92. Matt says:

    Numbers – apparently that data is corrupt and not to be believed.

  93. Joanna Smythe says:

    I live in WA. Life here is as normal as it was before the virus struck. The only difference is we can’t get in or out but that applies to the rest of Australia too. WA is a huge state. If you didn’t need to get in or out of the State, you really wouldn’t know there was anything wrong. We have the freedom to move around, unmasked, in groups, sit together, dance together, dine together, anywhere in the State. Ok, the rest of Australia is suffering but it is unfair to throw names at us over here just because the rest of Australia is in a mess. We are vilified because our border is closed. So what should we do. Should we open our borders and risk the continuous restrictions that are being stopped, started, stopped, started on the rest of Australia. This virus is not going anywhere but we over here have found a way of living with it while keeping our freedoms. I know where I’d rather be at the moment. And yes, there is an election coming up in March and if the current Government is returned and they probably will, then I hope they haven’t got plans to start acting like the rest of the States just because they won’t need us any more.

  94. Boambee John says:

    Matt
    #3706287, posted on January 2, 2021 at 12:02 pm
    Doctors bury their mistakes,

    And live with them too.

    Plenty of abortion doctors seem able to live with their deliberate actions.

  95. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    The pollies will be addicted, how easy to reach for the red switch next time, the power, the thrill of it all.

    I agree, Helen. This will not just be a one-off. They are intending to use it for the own leftist purposes concerning shutting down our energy systems in favour of things that don’t work.

    And pity us all if a really dangerous and high-mortality virus does hit the general population. They will have run out of money to help then. And will not have enough energy to supply urgent manufacturing.

  96. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    I know where I’d rather be at the moment

    In a fools’ paradise, Jo, that’s where you are. You have no herd immunity and the vaccines are by no means perfect. So this virus will get into WA unless you want to live with years of the tyranny of distance and the economic decline that unpreparedness will bring.

    Sounds nice now, but not so good in the longer term.

  97. Lee says:

    I know where I’d rather be at the moment.

    Me too, and that’s definitely not in WA under McGowan, of all people.
    You can’t hide under your beds forever in WA, as Lizzie implied.

  98. Ian of Brisbane says:

    I refuse to spend the rest of my life runnung from a virus.

  99. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Life here is as normal as it was before the virus struck

    Life in NSW, even in Sydney, is not all that changed if you aren’t hiding out scared. Shopping centres are full and maskless mostly. People are getting sick of the panic and over-reaction and unnecessary and capricious rules re interacting.

    We can do most things. I’ve been to lots of parties, smaller numbers, but still fun. We dance.
    We hum (sing maybe). We hear music played and not just recorded stuff. We visit with other Cats at a CBD pub. Other Cats come to our place for a BBQ, and our Christmas wasn’t much changed, except by decisions made without strong personal pressure. We hug our friends.

    I’m 78 and Hairy is 68 and we get about a bit, maskless. We both have co-morbidities. We drove around the US a bit in March and tackled a cruise until panic set in and we were dumped ashore in Mexico: no Covid on board and an older population feeling very much like us; knowing that life carries risks. Now that ICU’s are available and not overwhelmed, we should expand our interactions, remove barriers, and worry less; that’s my opinion.

    Gladys has done fairly well avoiding sheer panic, but is still too impressed by the Labor Premiers crying constant wolf.

  100. thefrollickingmole says:

    California has had the strongest measures in the whole USA vs Covid.

    How are they tracking.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/california/

    Ina word, shithouse

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/18/us/california-covid-surge-alarming-rise/index.html

  101. Lee says:

    I refuse to spend the rest of my life running from a virus.

    Same here.
    I am not going to let it define my life.

  102. Visiting American says:

    I am astonished that people are willing to ignore reality. This virus is a truly dangerous hazard that does incredible damage to many who survive infection. The situation in many parts of the US right now is dire. It has been politicised by fools and desperates who have wreaked havoc.
    I was very lucky to be visiting Australia when this virus appeared and I will certainly be staying until a vaccine or other option emerges. What many here fail to understand is the simple fact that Americans have had freedoms taken from them by those who trivialised the virus for their own purposes. In many places it’s simply unsafe to go about usual business. In fact many downtown areas are largely shut. That’s reality and the sad fact is that medical folk derided by some here are the ones who are dying.

  103. Struth says:

    Numbers – apparently that data is corrupt and not to be believed.

    You are a delusional cock head.
    Even if those numbers were as accurate and as reliable as our own incorruptible government departments like the temperature record changing B O M , it’s still admitted to by these fuckwits that these people are counted as dying “with ” not “From” covid.
    If you get shot in the head in any western country and especially the United states but have a cold, it was the cold that is killed you……give me a fucking break you dense c…nts.

    Matt I have given you an answer, and my interpretation of what tyranny means.
    Are you in agreement with this government behaviour?
    Do you actually support it?

    What is it with you dick head western Australians who think your border is closed.
    You phenomenal fuckwits , thousands of humans have been crossing your border from hotspots on the East coast every month since the border was proclaimed to be closed.
    They’re called truckies.
    Proof of this, comes from the fact that although you can’t seem to grasp the realities of the world and it’s supply system and think you can support yourselves, you can’t ,and yet you are not starving.
    No border is closed.
    Your’s especially.
    And here’s another concept for you to grapple with, as part of Australia and a taxpayer who’s taxes have benifitted governments from every state, and a former Western Australian property owner who lived in Perth, and have many friends there, who gives you the fucking right to keep me, a healthy person, from going there?
    WA is my country to, and if the tourism resumes and I don’t have to play the vaccination game, I’ll be working in WA next season.
    So tell me why I should be kept out of my country that I pay taxes toward, when you allow thousands in every week to supply you.

    Honestly, you can’t be that thick, so you must be evil and compliant with evil.

  104. Struth says:

    I was very lucky to be visiting Australia when this virus appeared and I will certainly be staying until a vaccine or other option emerges.

    But you know the reality …………………………………………………………..FMD.

  105. Struth says:

    The fact WA has no covid proves covid does not exist, at all………….

    Your borders have never been closed and the amount of people coming from the east coast every week into WA means you’d have had it get in by now.
    Nearly a year has past of this bullshit.
    You don’t have it because he isn’t looking for it, but he’ll find it when it suits him, you idiotic cretins.
    And if it ain’t found until you go looking for it, that means it’s all boogaloo.
    There are no closed borders so if you think a politician grabbing power by force of arms and putting those guns on the borders while waving through the thousands of people that supply you every month is saving you, you deserve all that is coming to us.

  106. Matt says:

    Struth

    counted as dying “with ” not “From” covid

    Are we really back here again? If you die from a gunshot wound and happen to have COVID, you will not be listed as a COVID death. If you genuinely believe that, well …
    USA is currently 400,000 deaths over last year’s total, so something is killing all those people – and it’s not gunshots and its not lockdowns.

    my interpretation of what tyranny means.

    There is always going to be tension between individual rights and community obligation in any society. Not all individual rights are absolute. I agree that people should be free to pursue their own lives within the extent of lawful rights so long as they respect the equal rights of others. The problem in a pandemic such as this with the spread of an infectious disease is that the actions of others can and do impact on the health of individuals. So when you say (for example) it is your right to visit granny in the nursing home without wearing a mask and having not taken any other precautions to prevent becoming infected (the measures imposed by government), then granny (and then by extension others in the home including staff and their families) are placed at risk by your individual behaviour – Granny (and the others) also have the right to good health. So whilst I don’t agree with every measure that has been introduced, I do believe that some measures that have been taken (and have been supported by the majority of the community) are necessary to prevent COVID from getting out of control – that’s the obligation of people living in a society.

    1 in 1000 Americans have now died from COVID – and that’s with various restrictions on freedom in many parts of the country. In contrast, 1 in 7,200 Victorians died from COVID. Would you rather be free and dead in the USA, or slightly less free and alive in Australia?

  107. Struth says:

    Good lord, they’ve admitted it time and time again, and the readers here know it.
    This very thread has video of them saying that very thing yet you say it’s bullshit.
    Matt…..
    First you want to believe all these types tell you, all their figures, but when they tell you what you don’t want to hear, you ignore them.
    Go up to Bad Samaritans video, you drooling cretin.
    We can safely put you in the looney left bin, especially when it comes to government tyranny, as you have expressed above.
    You are an enemy of the western world and an enemy of freedom.

  108. Struth says:

    1 in 1000 Americans have now died from COVID – and that’s with various restrictions on freedom in many parts of the country. In contrast, 1 in 7,200 Victorians died from COVID. Would you rather be free and dead in the USA, or slightly less free and alive in Australia?

    The idiocy and evil of this statement is that it is asked as if I have a choice.

  109. Boambee John says:

    Matt

    Are we really back here again? If you die from a gunshot wound and happen to have COVID, you will not be listed as a COVID death. If you genuinely believe that, well …

    Check back on the coroner in a Colorado county who had five deaths recorded as COVID. On checking, she found that two who had tested positive, had actually died from gunshot wounds.

  110. Joanna Smythe says:

    My point about where I’d rather be at the moment. If I lived anywhere else in Australia, the U.K, Most of America, Europe, I’d be waking up each day to continuous restrictions, lockdowns, masks, being denied access to family etc. Never knowing what is going to happen, literally from day to day. Here in WA none of that applies. The virus is a weapon being used to keep everyone in check. Some States are more in check than others. At the moment we are not being kept from doing anything. That is the only reason I would rather be here. McGowan has an agenda at the moment to keep us sweet so he can win the election. We are aware of that but we are also wary of what might happen after the election.

  111. Kneel says:

    “Define tyranny? At what point would you ever accept some of the measures that have been in place – when excess deaths reach 10%? 25%? 100% Never?”

    The initial restrictions were to “spread it out” because we couldn’t stop it, right? It was here, we needed to manage the spread so that hospitals weren’t overloaded and people didn’t get treatment.
    So maybe a bit of perspective then – if hospitals are not even close to overloaded with COVID cases, then we have gone too far and need to relax a little bit. Slowly, because it may take a while for changes to result in changed hospital loads. Not easy, but we need to allow this disease to spread as much as possible as quickly as possible without exceeding hospital capabilities so that we have herd immunity as quickly as possible and we can open up both internally and externally.

    It’s been, what, nine months? Have we increased our hospitals capabilities to deal with such patients at all in that time? Not that I know of – certainly no politician appears to be claiming they have done so. They created new rules, had lots of meetings and so on, but the one thing that unequivocally would have saved lives – more available health care – hasn’t been done.

    Just something to think about…

  112. rickw says:

    1 in 1000 Americans have now died from COVID – and that’s with various restrictions on freedom in many parts of the country. In contrast, 1 in 7,200 Victorians died from COVID. Would you rather be free and dead in the USA, or slightly less free and alive in Australia?

    Most deaths in Australia are due to one dickhead. Most deaths in the USA are due to a couple of dickheads. The comparison is pointless.

    Regardless, I wouldn’t ever trade my freedom for safety.

  113. rickw says:

    The initial restrictions were to “spread it out” because we couldn’t stop it, right? It was here, we needed to manage the spread so that hospitals weren’t overloaded and people didn’t get treatment.

    Fuck I’m glad someone remembers the reasonable initial objective. Where are we now?

    When profoundly stupid people are running things, they tend to forget what the fuck the objective was.

  114. twostix says:

    It appears to be all about bread and circuses aka JobKeeper right now, but let me propose that it may be a different story come March when the bread runs out and the circus moves on.

    Jobkeeper is not going to end. It’s going to morph into a weird UBI / indefinite payment to ‘small businesses’ thing.

  115. Vicki says:

    The current polarisation of opinion on the most important issues in contemporary society is unsettling. It is very apparent in this thread on the issue of COVID-19.

    I would like to think that the contributors to this blog value freedom of speech and the right of others to hold contrary positions. It is disappointing to read the sort of venom and cavalier inventive that characterises social media in general.

    I will no doubt be mocked for this quaint opinion. But there it is.

    Incidentally, some should reflect upon the comment of “Visiting American” (at 1.51pm) that”

    the sad fact is that medical folk derided by some here are the ones who are dying.

    Pour scorn on that one.

  116. WX says:

    Struth.

    Think of your health, sir. I mean that seriously.
    As I noted on another thread recently, I share your frustrations. However I wonder if this is the forum to initiate change? Catallaxy certainly has its uses, and some of the commentary can be informative and even witty. It confirms there are others with similar value systems and passions. Individuals – such as Rafe, for example – make consistently valuable analytical contributions. Beyond ‘raising awareness’ however, it seems to be a forum for theorising, rather than implementation. I make this observation not as a criticism, for it is probably the simplicity of purpose of the site that attracts many who would otherwise not publicly participate in the discussion of such issues.

    For some such as you and I who are keen to push further, this is probably not the place. For the question ‘Where is the place/opportunity?’ I have no answer. Hence my own frustration, and why I continue to lurk here.

    Take care of yourself, Struth.

  117. Arky says:

    The initial restrictions were to “spread it out” because we couldn’t stop it, right?

    ..
    All we heard for about three straight weeks early in the year was “Flatten the curve”.
    Everyone was parroting this phrase.
    Politicians, talking heads on the box, everyone.
    Then it slyly shifted to elimination in Australia, and whatever the hell it is they think they are doing in blue US states, which makes even less sense than the stupid cul-de-sac we have driven into here and which every bastard is desperately hoping the vaccine will airlift their arses out of.
    It won’t.
    THE VACCINE WON”T DO SHIT.

  118. Kneel says:

    https://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/safety
    “During the 12 months ended November 2020, there were 1,132 road deaths.”

    My God! This is a higher number than COVID!

    Since I “have the right to good health”, I insist that we do everything to stop this carnage – let’s start with a complete road transport ban until we have:
    1) fully divided road everywhere
    2) all vehicles fitted with collision avoidance systems
    We must treat this no differently to COVID, it seems to be a worse problem going by deaths and that’s not counting the serious injuries, life-long disabilities and so on, which are quite significant as well. If it saves one life, it’s worth it.

    What? You object? MURDERER! Denier. Heartless fiend. How dare you infringe on my right to good health. This is something WORSE than COVID! It must be stopped. We can’t afford to wait or people will die. To even question this is morally wrong, you must be in the pay of Big Transport and care more about your stock investments than peoples lives. Get thee away from me, heathen devil – we will not listen to you, lives are at stake.

  119. Arky says:

    Visiting American
    #3706407, posted on January 2, 2021 at 1:51 pm
    I am astonished that people are willing to ignore reality. This virus is a truly dangerous hazard that does incredible damage to many who survive infection. The situation in many parts of the US right now is dire. It has been politicised by fools and desperates who have wreaked havoc.
    I was very lucky to be visiting Australia when this virus appeared and I will certainly be staying until a vaccine or other option emerges. What many here fail to understand is the simple fact that Americans have had freedoms taken from them by those who trivialised the virus for their own purposes. In many places it’s simply unsafe to go about usual business. In fact many downtown areas are largely shut. That’s reality and the sad fact is that medical folk derided by some here are the ones who are dying.

    ..
    Jesus wept.
    Early on, we didn’t know the mortality rate so this type of comment was maybe understandable and encapsulates my view at one time.
    But you now know this thing is NOT lethal to anyone under 55- 60 to any great degree.
    At this point expecting young people to lose another year of living because of selfish bedwetting idiots is criminally stupid.

  120. 1735099 says:

    Even if those numbers were as accurate and as reliable as our own incorruptible government departments like the temperature record changing B O M , it’s still admitted to by these fuckwits that these people are counted as dying “with ” not “From” covid.

    Go back and read my post.
    The excess deaths were not attributed to any cause.
    That’s the whole point, which has sailed straight over your head.
    It looks as if I’ll have to explain it in words you might (if you work at it) understand.
    An additional 198,081 Americans above the average (so far) have died since the beginning of 2020.
    Care to explain the anomaly, or are you too busy abusing reality to spare the effort?
    Or do you simply lack the cognitive capacity to understand the basic maths involved?

  121. jupes says:

    So what should we do. Should we open our borders and risk the continuous restrictions that are being stopped, started, stopped, started on the rest of Australia.

    No, WA and Australia should indeed open its borders, state and national, but have only one policy for the Chicom flu – hygene standards at nursing homes.

    The rest of us can then get on with our lives and take any precautions that we decide, not some tyrannical dickhead in the government.

  122. Ragu says:

    How can the government reduce ChiCom flu jobseeker/jobkeeper payments whilst simultaneously ramping up lockdown and useless mask wearing?

    Rebranding. Jobkeeper becomes a UBI

  123. Kneel says:

    Oh no! This is even worse:
    https://www.aihw.gov.au/suicide-self-harm-monitoring/data/deaths-by-suicide-in-australia/suicide-deaths-over-time
    “In 2019 there were 3318 suicide deaths”

    We must do something!
    Clearly, suicide needs to be illegal – that’ll help.
    Just as clearly, we need to send a message to potential suiciders – we need the death penalty for attempted suicide.
    There – fixed it! Phew!

  124. Lee says:

    “In 2019 there were 3318 suicide deaths”

    I would like to know how many there were in 2020.
    Whatever, I would bet there would be considerably more than a few suicides resulting from state governments’ actions and policies in dealing with Covid.

  125. Ragu says:

    From numbers report

    Summary
    What is already known about this topic?
    As of October 15, 216,025 deaths from COVID-19 have
    been reported in the United States; however, this might
    underestimate the total impact of the pandemic on mortality.

    That’s a little dishonest as the numbers of deaths could be an overestimate. They can not claim one and dismiss the other. Fags

  126. twostix says:

    USA is currently 400,000 deaths over last year’s total, so something is killing all those people – and it’s not gunshots and its not lockdowns.

    Excess deaths in the US has increased for almost all classifications except the flu and pneumonia.

    The correct number of ‘excess’ Cov19 deaths, age and population adjusted is around 265,000 out of nearly three million deaths in the US this year.

    That you don’t know these basic facts but are absolutely certain we should become permanent concentration camps based on your bad data would worry a normal person.

  127. Alex Davidson says:

    There is always going to be tension between individual rights and community obligation in any society.

    No, There is always going to be tension between individual rights and community obligation in any SOCIALIST society.

    In a society that respects individual rights – those that extend logically from the axiomatic right of self-ownership, including property rights – much of that tension is absent, because there isn’t the wholesale plunder and complete subjugation of ownership rights by the government we see here in Australia today.
    The right to self-ownership means that each individual has the right to control their own actions, and defend themselves against actions of others that might harm their physical integrity or property. It does not mean that each or any individual has the right to control the behaviour of others because of fear or any other reason.

    Those who believe they have the right to control the behaviour of others don’t belong in a free society. Their declarations of ‘community obligations’ are a socialist concept that presumes elites have the right to determine those obligations, and the rest of us, whether we consent or not, must obey.

    Humans, along with all other living things, carry pathogens, many of which are infectious. Attempting to outlaw the spread of such pathogens is like attempting to control the weather – it’s a part of nature, and if we don’t want to live with it we can take steps to avoid it, as long as doing so doesn’t violate the right of other individuals to do the same.

    If masks were effective, then all it would take to protect those who Matt contends have a right to good health (which they don’t – it’s another of the positive rights that socialists confuse with the only legitimate individual rights, which are negative) would be for those individuals to wear them. Furthermore, those who believe they may become infected from someone else are free to isolate themselves.

    What we have now is an outrageous situation where healthy individuals are subjected to draconian restrictions, all because a relatively small number of relatively unhealthy individuals have died with a newly-identified flu strain. No-one can argue that these restrictions – forcing healthy individuals to quarantine; banning travel; forcing the wearing of masks; selectively forcing businesses to close; and running up huge government debt – represent anything other than a massively-disproportionate government response and the very antithesis of a free society.

  128. Matt says:

    Lee

    I would like to know how many there were in 2020.

    Victorian suicides YTD to 30 Nov
    2016 – 595
    2017 – 623
    2018 – 652
    2019 – 654
    2020 – 645

  129. twostix says:

    The real ‘excess deaths’ story, is that non-cov19 excess deaths in under 65’s due to heart disease and diabetes have skyrocketed:

    By appropriately adjusting for the aging of the U.S. population, our analysis of excess non–COVID-19 deaths revealed several new findings. We found that most excess non–COVID-19 deaths occurred in persons younger than 65 years. In this group, heart disease and diabetes were the most common causes of excess deaths (on the basis of available causes released by the CDC).

    Hundreds of thousands of totally savable young people have been killed by lockdown maniacs and their ghoulish mental illness shutting down civil societies across the world.

  130. twostix says:

    There is always going to be tension between individual rights and community obligation in any society.

    If community ‘obligation’ – whatever that is – has transmogrified into the ‘community’ (who is that – may I speak to its leader?) demanding people accept unilaterally being imprisoned in our houses, our suburbs, placed under mass arrest indefinitely, the complete abolition of our ideas and simple right to exist and go about our business in our own individual way, to now, open talk of us being forced to physically have medical procedures done to us or we will be starved out of existence, because some other people have the flu somewhere within a thousand km of them, then that ‘community’ – which sounds daily more like an aggressive mindless barbarian mob, deserves to and will come down.

  131. Matt says:

    Twostix – from the same paper:

    After the growth and aging of the U.S. population were taken into account, the 2020 COVID-19 pandemic resulted in an estimated 218 000 excess deaths between March and August, 80% of which had COVID-19 as the underlying cause.

    Most of the difference between the 2 estimates of non–COVID-19 deaths (−82,100) occurred in the groups aged 65 years and older, in which population growth has been greatest and death rates are highest.

    our estimates of excess deaths are probably too low

    The tremendous loss of life directly or indirectly due to COVID-19 over such a short period should not be understated. As of 30 November 2020, an estimated 265 000 COVID-19 deaths occurred in the United States, currently increasing by more than 10 000 deaths each week. In addition, as hospitalizations climb and intensive care units reach capacity, the number of non–COVID-19 excess deaths are likely to increase. Continued efforts to reduce COVID-19 infections and deaths remain an urgent priority.

  132. duncanm says:

    There is always going to be tension between individual rights and community obligation in any society.

    at which point did the community get to vote for the current impositions ?

  133. Struth says:

    WX, I am abusive for a very good reason.
    People must be held responsible for their positions and something as disgusting and evil as supporting this tyrannical coup d e’tat is unacceptable, traitorous behaviour, and decency toward them is optional at best.
    They need to be told and people have a right to be furious with them. If they do not expect it, when their traitorous behaviour and comments warrants it, bigger fool them. This is not some political debate where civility should be observed, these people are at war with me, my civilisation and the values that have allowed for it’s freedoms and prosperities. They are purposefully destroying the civilisation I brought my children into.
    I despise them.

    This is not a civil political discussion about the benefits or not of a 12%GST, this is people being traitors to this nation , supporting tyranny, the dividing up of the nation, and the destruction of western civilisation it is part of, and they need more than telling, truth be known.

    If you agree with the unlawful, unconstitutional criminal behaviour of our State Premiers and PM, and all those including the police supporting it and enforcing it, unfortunately you made that call, and you are my enemy.
    As you should be.
    This is serious shit.

    Take for example Johanna Smythe up above.
    Seems like the poor woman is just dopey, intellectually lazy, and doesn’t understand how her freedom came about or how socialists take it away, knows nothing of the constitution, or the rule of law, …..well I’m sorry, but she is an adult, and has civic responsibility as one, so being thick doesn’t pass muster.
    Right now, unfortunately she is supporting tyranny, by just being ok with it.
    She, like Matt and Numbers, have picked their side.

  134. Matt says:

    at which point did the community get to vote for the current impositions ?

    Every 4 years at elections. What do you propose?

  135. Struth says:

    An additional 198,081 Americans above the average (so far) have died since the beginning of 2020.
    Care to explain the anomaly

    A population in excess of 300 million people that is a mere blip that , even if correct, (which was my point about BOM) is very likely to be due from the extra suicides of people ruined by this socialist coup d’etat, and your own argument negates you opposing that conclusion. You are a space cadet, you old commy POS.

  136. Ragu says:

    our estimates of excess deaths are probably too low

    Where is the methodology for this scientifical conclusion?

  137. twostix says:

    After the growth and aging of the U.S. population were taken into account, the 2020 COVID-19 pandemic resulted in an estimated 218 000 excess deaths between March and August, 80% of which had COVID-19 as the underlying cause.

    Yes. 20% of the ~265,000 population age adjusted ‘excess deaths’ (basically half of your completely made up Big Number! 400,000!) are young people who have been banned from getting medical treatment for heart disease and diabetes thanks to ‘lockdown’ fetish by sadomasochistic lockdown cultists.

    Also you’ll note the paper says that 28% of non-covid deaths hadn’t even been classified and released yet so are missing from that data entirely.

  138. Ragu says:

    Every 4 years at elections. What do you propose?

    You dickwad, matt. Nobody had a chance to vote for or against the rushed changes to the health act.

    I’ll note also, that of late cops are using the mental health act to enter a private residence for any reason they like. Like standing out the front door of a home videoing the street.

    Fucking fascist

  139. Struth says:

    So let’s look at other nations who have been or now are under socialist, tyrannical control, and you will find very low life expectancy, especially for men, as they succumb to alcohol and drug related self destruction due to the hopelessness of their situation.
    As soon as socialists take over, the deaths start, and that is exactly what is happening now.
    Socialism controls aboriginal communities too, and without hope or any future to look forward to, life expectancy is way down.
    It’s just like Socialists to start killing people and claim something else is doing it.

  140. mh says:

    My hairdresser told me last time I went for a haircut that loads of her customers committed suicide in 2020.

  141. Matt says:

    Twostix – your paper reports March-August, so only 6 months. YTD it is 400,000 more than 2019.

  142. twostix says:

    Every 4 years at elections. What do you propose?

    lol. reduces community to 60 people who meet in parliament 12 times a year.

    Sad.

  143. Kneel says:

    “An additional 198,081 Americans above the average (so far) have died since the beginning of 2020.
    Care to explain the anomaly”

    Explain it? More people died, obviously.

    Perhaps a bit of context:

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate

    Looks like it is about 1.1% higher than average.
    You will notice plenty of 1% or so changes since 1950, so it seems to be inside normal variation, or if not, then barely outside it. Sure doesn’t look like airborn ebola or anything, just a particularly bad year that, if we didn’t have a name for it and hadn’t panicked about, might have gone relatively unnoticed. From the deaths/1000 on that graph, looks like we haven’t exceeded most years in the 1960’s yet, nor a good part of the 1970’s. Perhaps it’s actually the last 40 years or so that are anomalous?

  144. Matt says:

    Nobody had a chance to vote for or against the rushed changes to the health act.

    But that’s generally the case for anything. Sure, parties take issues to elections, but don’t always deliver. Are you suggesting that for any change of legislation either a referendum or that it must have been an election promise?

  145. twostix says:

    Matt in Germany 1932: it’s the will of the community, if you don’t like what the ‘community’ wants, just vote the NSDAP out in four years!

  146. Matt says:

    Kneel – from the link:

    ‘NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.’

    It’s not clear that it is reporting actual 2020 data.

  147. twostix says:

    Twostix – your paper reports March-August, so only 6 months. YTD it is 400,000 more than 2019.

    Are you literate?

    The 400,000 number is not adjusted for the boomer-getting-old issue.

    Geezuz christ.

    If you really, really, do want to go with the 400,000 number, which is not adjusted for boomers getting old, then according to the data only 67% of those deaths are covid-19 related and a hundreds of thousand young people died from lockdown fetishists actions in the US alone.

    It’s worse for you!

  148. Struth says:

    covid related……….language is everything.

  149. Struth says:

    Socialist countries like Russia in the day had life expectancy for men down to about 65 if I remember correctly.

    With a socialist coup d’etat occuring like this, we should expect to see a massive and increasing death count, especially amongst men.

  150. twostix says:

    So get this straight: according to the CDC over 30% of ‘excess deaths’ in the US this year were mostly heart disease and diabetes deaths.

    AKA people unable to get timely medical care.

    The lockdown fetishist calls you a covidiot murderer as you die locked in your home from a heart attack his lockdown has caused you to die from.

  151. 1735099 says:

    So let’s look at other nations who have been or now are under socialist, tyrannical control, and you will find very low life expectancy, especially for men, as they succumb to alcohol and drug related self destruction due to the hopelessness of their situation.

    Yes, lets…
    Is Cuba socialist enough for you?
    Life expectancy – 78.8 (USA – 80.0)
    Infant mortality rate – Cuba – 4.40 (USA – 5.80)
    Vaccination rate (all diseases) – Cuba – 99.9% (USA – Between 74% and 97% Average = 84%)

  152. Matt says:

    Twostix – yes, I get that the paper you linked is reporting age-adjusted rates given the increase in older people (said to be 10% in people 65+ yrs; but the difference between 2019 and 2020 is not that great as to affect the comparison I’ve made), but it’s also comparing to a 5 year average. They report a crude excess compared to 5-year average of 301,400 for 6 months, and age-adjusted 217,900 (about 72% of the crude excess) – for 6 months.
    For 2020 YTD to 12 Dec compared to the 3 year average (I don’t have the data for 2015 & 2016), the crude excess is 423,000. If you use the same ~72%, that give an estimated age-adjusted excess of 304,000. No matter how you slice it, there has been a significant increase in excess mortality in 2020 – which is exactly the conclusion of the paper that you linked to.

  153. mh says:

    Less destructive than any government response

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JPRvxTjfOk

  154. 1735099 says:

    Socialist countries like Russia in the day had life expectancy for men down to about 65 if I remember correctly.

    Why do you post such arrant bullshit?
    Russia, by the way, hasn’t been Socialist since the fall of the Berlin wall.
    Like the USA, it’s a plutocracy.
    Life expectancy in Russia is currently 71 and has been for over a decade.
    Now let’s examine your allegation that socialist countries have lower life expectancies.
    Iceland, Sweden, Norway, and Ireland all have greater life expectancies than the USA.
    They all have socialised medicine.
    So does Australia, for what it’s worth.
    The USA is one of the few developed countries that doesn’t.
    There’s a connection between that fact, and the fact that they have one of the highest Covid-19 death rates worldwide.

    The Scandinavian countries have highly socialised health and welfare provisions.

    You should do a small reality check before you post anything.
    It can prevent you making a goose of yourself.

  155. Rex Anger says:

    The Jack Hunt assumes that Socialist Workers’Paradise Cuba would never doctor their medical statistics to promote themselves in the world stage

    Surely…

  156. 1735099 says:

    No matter how you slice it, there has been a significant increase in excess mortality in 2020 – which is exactly the conclusion of the paper that you linked to.

    Reality is not always well accepted here Matt, but go for it.

  157. 1735099 says:

    The Jack Hunt assumes that Socialist Workers’Paradise Cuba would never doctor their medical statistics to promote themselves in the world stage

    The figures quoted are provided by the CIA.
    You remember the CIA?
    The same organisation that spent 50 years attempting regime change in Cuba.
    Remind me, how many times did they attempt to assassinate Castro.
    Of course, they would be trying to doctor the figures to make Cuba look good….of course.
    Only on Catallaxy…

  158. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “Why do you post such arrant bullshit?”

    Good question racist….why do you post such arrant bullshit here everyday?

  159. Rex Anger says:

    Of course, they would be trying to doctor the figures to make Cuba look good….of course.
    Only on Catallaxy…

    And?

    You really think they would waste good spying time on statistical bullshit they can collate from other ‘agencies?’ Like the WHO?

    You lose again, Bobby Boy…

  160. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “Only on Catallaxy…”

    And yet, day after day, the racist is here on Catallaxy!

  161. 1735099 says:

    You lose again, Bobby Boy…

    Aha – It’s now a conspiracy between the CIA and the WHO.
    Strange bedfellows.
    Still, on Catallaxy, absolutely anything is possible.
    The Koolaid is always on tap…

  162. Struth says:

    Socialist countries like Russia in the day had life expectancy for men down to about 65 if I remember correctly.

    5 seconds of googling

    What is the average lifespan of a Russian man?
    65.1 years
    As of 2013, the average life expectancy in Russia was 65.1 years for males and 76.5 years for females. The average Russian life expectancy of 71.6 years at birth is nearly 5 years shorter than the overall average figure for the European Union, or the United States.

    Bloody hell, I was point one orf, I do feel ashamed.

  163. Ragu says:

    Why do you post such arrant bullshit?

    I wasn’t deferred
    Never darkened the door of an RSL since evaluating

  164. Rex Anger says:

    Still, on Catallaxy, absolutely anything is possible.

    Indeed.

    A rabid Communist actively defending a generational Class Enemy.

    These truly are strange times…

  165. Struth says:

    Today, on this thread, idiots who can be told any amount of crap as long as it comes from their church, which of course is government, have shown us the level of thickness needed to be that gullible.

    The dumb bint who can’t leave WA is happy to be there because she’d hate to be where she hasn’t been anyway and therefore has no idea……..except for what she has been told by the MSM and other lying socialists, as to what is going on there.

    The other socialist traitors here rabbit on about facts but when one is shown to them that doesn’t suit the narrative and is on this thread on video, from the horses mouth, they leave that alone and try to push other government fabricated nonsense down everybody’s throat.
    The fact is that the actions of government is tyrannical, illegal as far as the constitution is concerned, therefore criminal. Your numbers are irrelevant, because no matter what they are, government needs to act under the rule of law, and nothing justifies imprisoning the healthy. Nothing. That is not quarantining, that is tyranny. Criminal behaviour, and the longer it’s let go, and not challenged the more blood will need to be spilled (probably by our children) to regain our freedoms.

  166. Matt says:

    Struth

    Your numbers are irrelevant, because no matter what they are

    I think that says it all – the facts don’t matter to you

  167. Lee says:

    “Only on Catallaxy…”

    Good question racist….why do you post such arrant bullshit here everyday?

    The commie has a staggering lack of self-awareness, Cassie.
    He is the epitome of old age not always bringing wisdom with it.

  168. Struth says:

    The fact that the government are operating criminally should be a fact that supersedes all others to you Matt.
    You’re a joke cherry picking like that.

  169. Struth says:

    COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT – SECT 117
    Rights of residents in States
    A subject of the Queen, resident in any State, shall not be subject in any other State to any disability or discrimination which would not be equally applicable to him if he were a subject of the Queen resident in such other State.

    Section 109 of the Constitution of Australia provides that: When a law of a State is inconsistent with a law of the Commonwealth, the latter shall prevail, and the former shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be invalid.

    Section 51(ix) of the Constitution provides that the Commonwealth can pass laws for the peace, order and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to quarantine.

    (it says nothing about concurrency with state governments and because nothing can be changed without a referendum, allowing States TO MAKE LAW regarding quarantine is unconstitutional and criminal)

    Do any of these facts concern you Matt?

  170. Struth says:

    Restriction of movement due to disease is quarantining, and is to be done by federal law.
    It has nothing to do with state health departments.
    Now all of a sudden, Federal government, obsessed with regulating everything and controlling everything, somehow, mysteriously, wants to wipe it’s hands of all quarantine obligations except for preventing us leaving the tyranny that it has illegally sub contracted out to the States.
    Funny that.

  171. Matt says:

    IIRC, the High Court disagrees with you Struth

  172. Struth says:

    To still have people pretending to believe the bullshit this far down the line, with all the lunacy and tyranny so blatant, is proof they need to be considered traitors. They have another agenda and a fighting a cold virus is not part of it.

  173. Struth says:

    IIRC, the High Court disagrees with you Struth

    I’m sure they do, so what?
    What do you expect?

  174. Struth says:

    Can you read Matt?
    Read it.
    It is written in plain English for times like these, when those who twist the law for the advantage of government and are part of government can be seen to be the tragic elite partisan hacks they have become.
    You just need to read the simple sentences, and have faith in your eyesight.

  175. Matt says:

    Um, you’ve just been banging on about restrictions being unconstitutional, and the High Court says you are wrong. It kind of calls into question much of what you have to say.

  176. Struth says:

    The constitution says I am right.
    Read it.

  177. Struth says:

    The high court decided people who have never even been to Australia cannot be booted out if they claim being indigenous Australians. Seriously. They have, long ago, been captured.
    Sad but true.

  178. Struth says:

    They have left Australians languishing in tyranny postponing for months a challenge against this major crime against our freedoms. What more important business did they have?

  179. Matt says:

    So the High Court – correct in the matter of Pell, but wrong on an issue that you disagree with. Got it.

  180. Struth says:

    The Elites, including the Queen and the GG, have gone AWOL on this, the high court is a government department of elites, and we are people who agreed to be governed under that constitution and no other.
    And we can read the bloody thing, and it’s straight forward.
    What’s so hard for you here?

  181. Struth says:

    Not correct on Mabo either, but that’s irrelevant to this coup d e’tat.
    This is black and white, there is no wriggle room here for the high court, sect 117 is too straight forward, and elites with guns can call black as white, knowing you can do diddly squat about it.
    But the simple wording of the constitution lets us clearly know what we are dealing with.

  182. Struth says:

    There are some facts you should be concerned about Matt.

    Not fabricated bullshit from government departments with an agenda.

  183. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    we have a vaccine so safe you need to be threatened to take it, for a virus so deadly you need to be tested to make sure you have it

    HoP Time has finally commenced, following the incessant screeching of staggeringly stupid hysterical morbidly obese cellulite laden feminayzee fascist fuckwits in NSW demanding that an equally stupid cellulite laden VD ridden staggeringly ugly vulturous corrupt collectivist slag impose a face nappie mandate, which the latter piece of shit has duly and very stupidly done.

    You do not get to say you were not warned. You will suffer for this and you will not live to regret it.

  184. EllenG says:

    I’d just like to mention that Arky stares as fact that the virus doesn’t hurt anyone under 65. To which I’d say two things. So what? And: utterly wrong.

  185. Dot says:

    Please state all of the young dead people from this virus in Australia.

    Actually sereologically tested, not “suspected”, and who were not obese.

    Hey guys:

    1. Only two weeks of hard lockdown to flatten the curve.
    2. We’re all in this together.
    3. At least we’re not speaking German.

  186. MatrixTransform says:

    hey matt,
    when did the last aussie covid death occur?
    what was their name and circumstance?
    where did they live?
    what hospital ward did they pass in?
    what did their family say when interviewed?
    when was the funeral?
    who signed the death certificate?
    performed their last rites?
    dug the grave?
    who tells their story?

    now there’s a question

  187. a reader says:

    I asked my local liberal MP today what part of liberalism she and her party actually believe in. Funnily enough she ignored my genuine inquiry. However some local busybody asked me what country I would prefer to live in. I’ve bitten my tongue so far because I think it’s self explanatory. But this is the sort of stupid we live with. A society conditioned to fear everything. What did the former US president say, the only thing we need to fear is fear itself?

    As for Gladys’ Freedom Muzzles, I’d take her more seriously if this had been the response when the outbreak occurred, not weeks later when it’s almost done! Notice how she’s pissed off on holidays after dropping that bombshell today?

  188. MatrixTransform says:

    To which I’d say two things. So what? And: utterly wrong.

    and for EllenG

    https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers#covid19-summary-statistics

    in Australia, apparently 15 deaths

    you retard

    utterly, retarded

    with emphasis on utterly

  189. Rockdoctor says:

    As for Gladys’ Freedom Muzzles, I’d take her more seriously if this had been the response when the outbreak occurred, not weeks later when it’s almost done! Notice how she’s pissed off on holidays after dropping that bombshell today?

    In a pub at Rooty Hill Sat, all there have gad enough. General consensus, protect the elderly & let the virus rip with the rest of us. Seemed to be the consensus across NW Sydney wherever we went and people were talking about it. Don’t think Gladys is going to win any friends with this.

  190. 1735099 says:

    Don’t think Gladys is going to win any friends with this.

    Suggest you recall the results of the recent Queensland state elections, and the current polling for Morrison and McGowan.

  191. Rockdoctor says:

    Suggest you recall the results of the recent Queensland state elections, and the current polling for Morrison and McGowan.

    Yup you obviously missed the part about NSW…

  192. 1735099 says:

    Yup you obviously missed the part about NSW…

    This part?

  193. Struth:

    Australians have given away their freedoms and liberty and everything our forbears fought and died for…………for fear of catching a cold.
    That is the sickening reality.

    + mega lots.

  194. Dot says:

    Please state all of the young dead people from this virus in Australia.

    Actually sereologically tested, not “suspected”, and who were not obese.

    No answer.

    This pandemic is utterly facile and the woefully destructive & disruptive public policy response has been worse than useless and sent our civil liberties back to the reign of the bloody Stuarts.

  195. Rockdoctor says:

    She may be for now but watch that support erode if pushes the face nappies on everyone. There has been a relentless media campaign here to push them on to everyone the Gladys to her credit has resisted till now, why start now unless the plan is to go down that path in a softly softly way at first. As I said the proles are getting restless at least in NW Sydney where I spent New Year, though NSW IMO has been the best of a worse bunch…

    As for Queensland, well Freckless made a selfish and poor decision to stay on despite a tap on the shoulder. If Chrisifulli or Mander was in the job I’m sure the poll would have been much closer.

  196. duncanm says:

    1735099
    #3707071, posted on January 3, 2021 at 8:41 am

    Yup you obviously missed the part about NSW…

    This part?

    give it time. She’s been handling this the best of a very bad lot so far.. but its to be see how the face mask mandate is received.

  197. Dot says:

    Yes Winston, I couldn’t agree more.

  198. duncanm says:

    snap – Rockdoctor.

  199. 1735099 says:

    give it time. She’s been handling this the best of a very bad lot so far.. but its to be see (sic) how the face mask mandate is received.

    The mask mandate in Victoria doesn’t seem to have done Dan Andrews much harm.

  200. Dot says:

    1735099
    #3707751, posted on January 3, 2021 at 6:17 pm

    Answer the fucking questions.

    Please state all of the young dead people from this virus in Australia.

    Actually sereologically tested, not “suspected”, and who were not obese.

    GO!!!

  201. 1735099 says:

    Answer the fucking questions.

    Look it up yourself.
    I could have said “Look it up your fucking self”, but I’m here to help, not to abuse….

  202. Dot says:

    So in other words, a negligible number in RAW terms, but you’re too stupid and dishonest to answer the question – how many young people with PROVEN COVID-19 positive serology and were NOT morbidly obese have died???

    GO!!!

  203. 1735099 says:

    So in other words, a negligible number in RAW terms

    Yup – we’ve done a great job in Oz.
    Unfortunately, that’s not the case in other dispensations.

  204. Dot says:

    You still can’t answer the question. You are such a useless jerkoff, Whittaker.

Comments are closed.