How many is enough

TAFKAS knows that the Cat attracts a discerning reader.  And occasional influential reader.  They may not comment, but they know who they are.  TAFKAS is also a citizen of NSW so the following is from a NSW citizen’s perspective.  There maybe similarities in other states and territories, but TAFKAS does not have sufficient knowledge about them.

Ok then.

TAFKAS recently got pinged with a speeding fine for travelling 50 kmh in a 40 zone.  The signage was there, but not exactly clear.  Worse, it was a transition from a 50 to 40 zone without clear transition markings but accompanied with a well functioning speed camera.

This is crap.

NSW has at least 9 speed limits on public roads – 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 and 110.  The transition markings between speeds are very poor and are often accompanied by speed traps – cameras and/or physical police with radars.

There cannot be an evidence supported basis for this many speed zones.  This must be a system to extract optimal fine revenue more than managing and mitigating road incidents.

Can someone please ask the NSW roads minister why NSW has so many speed limits and what evidentiary basis is there to support road safety outcomes with this number of road speed limits.  And if such evidence does exist (TAFKAS doubts it), there should be improved standards around driver signage and alerts.

This is crap.

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70 Responses to How many is enough

  1. Petros says:

    My new car reads the speed limit on the side of the road and displays it on the dash. So useful to check if I’m doing the right speed. Another shafting for those that can’t afford the new technology.

  2. Art Vandelay says:

    Can someone please ask the NSW roads minister why NSW has so many speed limits and what evidentiary basis is there to support road safety outcomes with this number of road speed limits. And if such evidence does exist (TAFKAS doubts it), there should be improved standards around driver signage and alerts.

    I’m willing to be there isn’t any supporting evidence.

    The evidence produced by the bureaucracy to justify lower speed limits is, unsurprisingly, of very poor quality. For example, check out the cost-benefit analysis for a nationwide 50km/h urban speed limit.

    The only reason that the lower 50km/h limit leads to a net benefit is because they chose to ignore the costs arising from longer travel times. I kid you not.

    Bizarrely, throughout the document they refer to ‘costs’ as ‘disbenefits’ as if that makes them appear less negative. Orwell would be proud.

  3. RobK says:

    Sorry to hear that you got pinged Sparty. It’s happened to me a couple of times over the years. A few k over near transition points. It’s a sure revenue winner.

  4. Professor Fred Lenin says:

    My mates wife used to say “how many cans are enogh”? When he got a slab of beer he could never answer the question .

  5. Karabar says:

    And what of the judiciary?
    Surely a situation such as this shoudl be challenged in court?
    We the people must begin refusing to take this crap lying down.

  6. Squirrel says:

    If it truly was about safety, and safety alone – rather than revenue raising masquerading as safety – limits, other than a small number of commonly understood and accepted limits, would be used sparingly.

    Likewise, changes in limits in circumstances where there are no very obvious changes in the nature of the road/driving conditions etc. would be made sparingly and would be very clearly sign-posted. On busy roads, where there may well be quite a bit of visual clutter, expecting drivers to keep an eagle eye out for a sign showing a reduced speed limit could very well be argued to reduce safety, not promote it.

    If we don’t already have national guidelines on the setting of speed limits, clearly we should, so National Cabinet should get on to this a.s.a.p. – when they get the borders open…….

  7. Roger says:

    My new car reads the speed limit on the side of the road and displays it on the dash.

    Ditto, Petros; just be aware that it’s not always accurate though.

  8. Woolfe says:

    Its pure revenue raising.

    WA used to be the only state in Australia where radar detectors were legal, now thanks to Mr McClown they are not, safety of course. The $2,000 fine if caught with one has nothing to do with revenue.

  9. HD says:

    I get the impression that senior members of the RMS/ Transport NSW have a daemonic possession prerequisite for employment thing going on since the days they were the RTA. I recall waiting in lines for the automatons with soulless eyes, decades ago in a place that if only for the air conditioning seemed somewhere between purgatory and hell.

    Given this esoteric management aspect, I have found you can drive at 10 or over the speed limit anywhere in NSW though the cameras and Highway Patrol only seem to notice during periods of extreme low traffic flow or if your “vehicle cramps their style”. Say driving an atomic green Holden signature V8 versus something infinitely less aesthetic as such though same balls like a dual V4 engine white Toyota Hilux. The more mud on it the less attention is attracted. Upsets them as they lurk, sitting in piss-poor “hiding” spots in those brand new BMWs or Audis being microwaved by sun, grazed by flies, tapped by mosquitoes and abraided/ desiccated by dust and gales. Watching people drive cars they want for themselves.

    Never ceases to amaze me the idiots that have never got a speeding ticket in their lives. That drive for example champagne colour Mazdas or a circa 2000’s white XR-6 that see the number ’50’ with a red circle around it and think that means ’80’. Conversely seeing ‘100’ and tear along in a grinding manner at 70.

  10. PB says:

    Speed cameras were first introduced by the bankrupt and incompetent Kirner Government in Victoria at the same time as they permitted pokies in Victorian clubs. They waited conspicuously for a wet weekend and rolled them out the Monday after. That’s about the total science of speed cameras.

    never forgot or forgave it.

  11. bruce says:

    Everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE in this country we are overgoverned to billyio.
    How do you change it? Can’t. The uniparty rules.

  12. Buccaneer says:

    30 and 50 km speed limits do nothing more than confuse people. As speeds get higher stopping times increase but most 90 km zones could be 100. Of more concern is the importation of hidden speed cameras from vic into nsw. This government campaigned against them when Bof was in charge, its arrogance amplified to bring this in.

  13. Rockdoctor says:

    I got my first licence in Victoria. We had 60, 75, 90 and 100 or the derestricted sign (which was 100 anyway). 4 limits and you knew there was generally only 1 in built up areas being 60. The rest generally to transition out of town. Completely agree the system is a dogs breakfast and my last trip to Melbourne proved that with the same vague setup on Whitehorse road around Ringwood.

    As for NSW jack sitting at the bottom of hills etc… My dad used to whinge abouty that and the scalys. NSW cops used to have a reputation for it, one of my relatives in the 1980’s was pinched bottom of the hill coming into Jugiong on Hume Hwy by the jacks sitting at the bottom. They couldn’t wash off speed quick enough. However they wrote a letter of complaint to the Police somewhere in Sydney with that reason and asked for leniency due to a 20 year spotless driving record. The fine was rescinded but I don’t think they are that fair these days.

    Long been a well repeated lie that speed cameras save lives. Police cars with lights do something I have noticed NSW do well with presence. It’s instinctive you look at the speedo as soon as you see them.

  14. Nicholas (Unlicensed Joker) Gray says:

    Someone makes those signs! Without zones, these people would be out of a job. Do you want to create unemployment?

  15. David Brewer says:

    Dunno about the “flash cars get flashed” theory. My mother drove one of a long line of very modest vehicles just about every day for 70 years, always safely, only had one minor ding at low speed in a pile-up on a greasy road once, but she used to get tickets all the time. The main problem was that the authorities were constantly reducing the speed limit on the same roads, even though the state of those roads was gradually improving.

    There used to be a rule, not sure if it exists any more, that if the road was unmarked and you were driving more that 50mph (i.e. 80kms/h), you had to “be able to prove you were driving safely at that speed”. The same should really apply across the board, especially if they are going to set the limits at roughly what an 80-year old should be doing in heavy traffic in the rain. Typically, 10kms over, in good conditions with little traffic, is actually the correct speed at which to be driving.

  16. Lee says:

    If some of the left/Green councils (fortunately I don’t live in one of them) in Melbourne had their way, their speed limit would be 30 kmh throughout.
    I would like someone to explain to me how being at least twice as long on the road, with even more constant accelerating/decelerating and stopping/starting than before, will be of any net benefit?

  17. Gilas says:

    bruce
    #3710493, posted on January 5, 2021 at 7:17 pm

    Everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE in this country we are overgoverned to billyio.
    How do you change it? Can’t. The uniparty rules.

    When Victoristanis’ support for Andrews is at an all time high, despite the abuses he carried out, you know this country is fucked.
    Victoria is not alone.

    The uniparty is a consequence of this cowardice, not its cause.

  18. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    It is almost impossible to avoid being pinged by speed cameras in NSW nowadays – and this is from someone who’s not had a speeding fine since October 1987. That one for being 30 kms over the limit on the Sydney Gosford expressway in the trusty ol’ gemini – $100 fine and six demerit points – nowadays you’d probably get a gaol sentence and lose your license 4evah.

    My tips for avoiding those good ol’ voluntary taxes:

    – On long trips, use cruise control wherever practical, including in built up areas if the 40 kms zones are on a break. If you drive a manual, fourth gear in 60 zones is fine, the cruise control is useless in 40 and 50 zones
    – Drive before, between or after the school zone limits apply – and brush up on when the school holidays are on
    – Limit your driving to an absolute minimum. I now hate driving in Sydney so much that in the last 12 months between registrations, I drove the grand total of 481 kms – and yes, since moving back, I’ve replaced my battery every 12 months
    – Drive on weekends
    – Limit your driving during holiday periods, as the parasitic fascist arseholes double both the fines and demerit points during those periods
    – Use taxis/uber wherever practical (hideously unpleasant as they almost invariably are)
    – Employ your passengers as spotters, so you’re not continually watching your speedo

    Good luck, Milch Cows! I won’t be seeing you out on the roads. 🙂

  19. Arky says:

    Stop paying the fines and cop the prison sentences and they’ll stop levying these fines because prison costs them.
    A roof over your head, three squares and a root.
    What more could you want?

  20. Lee says:

    Stop paying the fines and cop the prison sentences and they’ll stop levying these fines because prison costs them.
    A roof over your head, three squares and a root.

    A “root”, presumably by another man, is enough to put me right off risking prison!

  21. louis says:

    The better cars have become mechanically over the decades, the lower the speed limit has come.

    It’s about revenue. In most States that money doesn’t go to general revenue, it goes to a special fund that Ministers and/or police road command and/or Department of transport get to choose how it is spent. So it gets spent on pet projects.

    I’m not opposed to speed cameras. What I am opposed to is speed limits and placement of cameras being designed to maximize catching people out.

    Also, the justifications for particular speed limits in places should be available to the public, after all, someone had to come up with a reason for making the limit that at a stretch of road, all I am asking is that reason (justification) be recorded and publicly available.

  22. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    What more could you want?

    Permanent brain damage – see the Jamie Partlic case in NSW. Which is why going to prison for fine defaulting is no longer an option here.

  23. JohnJJJ says:

    Yawn. The same as the suburbans talking about property prices. Here is your solution. Get rid of your car. HORROR! Not once has my bus driver been fined.
    Think of it as the risk incremental of driving. It is called fuzzy logic.
    Put money aside and count yourself lucky to travel at any speed beyond walking.

  24. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    count yourself lucky to travel at any speed beyond walking

    And make sure your face nappie is firmly in place, peon.

  25. Pedro the Loafer says:

    You don’t get put in prison for non payment of speeding fines. You have your drivers licence cancelled, your car number plate goes into Plod’s ANPR car mounted spy cameras, you then get pinged for unlicenced driving, car impounded, more fines. Rinse and repeat until the beak gets sick of you and throws you in the clink.

    “For we are one and free”. Hohohoho.

  26. Pedro the Loafer says:

    Not once has my bus driver been fined.

    some fool above.

    Because everybody in Oz lives in a city with a nice convenient taxpayer subsidised bus service running past the the front door of the trendy little apartment block.

    Sheesh.

  27. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    Get this upya The Artist Formerly Known As Spartacus

    Angelina, 12, Sienna, 9, Antony, 13, and Veronique, 11 are dead. 100% dead. Four from the seven children of an extended family who were walking to buy an ice cream.

    I understand you are busy being ever so entitled and philosophically correct but who in your perfect world is looking after their interests?

    Everyone is a moron but you?

  28. Bones says:

    From the eastern side of Wellington NSW to the western side, from recollection speed zones are;

    100 to 80.
    80 to 60.
    60 to 50.
    In school zones times;
    50 to 40 and vice versa.

    All in about 3 to 4 kilometres. This is not policing, this is persecution of law abiding citizens.

  29. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    46 Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them. – Luke 11:46

    Same old.

  30. Tel says:

    – Limit your driving to an absolute minimum. I now hate driving in Sydney so much that in the last 12 months between registrations, I drove the grand total of 481 kms – and yes, since moving back, I’ve replaced my battery every 12 months

    Besides collecting revenue, getting drivers off the road is partly the objective.

    The state government sees roads as an expense and fines as income … not building a new road is just as valuable as hitting more drivers with fines. As they make driving more impossible for everyone it hits an equilibrium point where those people who really have no bloody choice will sufficiently pay for the next round of upgrades. Obviously the other option would be throttle immigration, but waaacist you know.

  31. Angelina, 12, Sienna, 9, Antony, 13, and Veronique, 11 are dead. 100% dead. Four from the seven children of an extended family who were walking to buy an ice cream.

    They were on the footpath, on the other side of the road.

    I hope Mick, you’re not of the belief that a poorly sited 50kph sign was the governing factor?

    There were many factors contributing to that tragedy, however devious posting of signage in a manner that will entrap a motorist with a sudden switch from 50 kph to 40 kph was not a contributing factor.

  32. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    getting drivers off the road is partly the objective

    The bat flu hysteria has worked wonders for traffic volumes in Sydney.

  33. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    There were many factors contributing to that tragedy

    The main ones being the imbecile “driving” was completely whacked out on drugs and alcohol – and driving even more recklessly as he was headed the “short distance” home with some newly purchased stash.

  34. Tel says:

    With regards to the battery replacement every 12 months because you only drive occasionally.

    https://www.ozcharge.com/collections/battery-chargers/products/12-volt-6-amp-pro-series-battery-charger-and-maintainer

    Those are gooood … easily they pay for themselves in battery maintenance and simply having a fully charged battery when you need to use the bugout-mobile at short notice. They come with a stub cable and one of those DC hermaphrodite plugs that guarantees you can connect it up quickly, even when tired and not paying attention, and you cannot get the polarity wrong. I keep the crocodile clips in case I need them but generally avoid using those. The smart charger takes care of everything, leave it connected as long as you like and use it any time you remember.

    The only trick is getting the correct voltage and current settings, and there’s three voltage modes to choose from, then three different current modes (making 9 permutations). All slightly different variations on nominally 12V battery chemistry. It remembers the settings from last time … if you get it right when you first use it, then fine ever after that.

    If you are lucky enough to have a shed, there’s some mounting holes and you can tie a string to it and hang it up.

  35. K2 says:

    I have noticed recently around rural Vic that 80 signs have disappeared approaching some small towns. 100 straight to 60.

  36. Terry says:

    Mick Gold Coast QLD
    #3710546, posted on January 5, 2021 at 8:19 pm
    ‘Drunk driver Samuel Davidson’

    Yup! Must’av been speedin’!
    If only there’d been a speed camera to click him being +1 over, all would be still here and you’d have no reason to be smug as fuck. Good job! FFS.

  37. Terry says:

    Karabar
    #3710451, posted on January 5, 2021 at 6:34 pm
    ‘We the people must begin refusing to take this crap lying down.’

    And what? Demand it from behind in a public place?…how kinky.

  38. Dot says:

    A rare epic fail by Mick GC.

    There should be four speed limits, 60, 80, 110 and 130, then unrestricted.

    School zones are an utter joke.

  39. Rockdoctor says:

    K2 same NSW but usually 110 to 50km/h. Newell Hwy is probably the worst for it. Guess it saves money on signs for other things like more useless public servants or kickbacks to AGL or something.

  40. MACK says:

    The fact that thousands of people drive for decades without ever having an accident – in old cars, in bad weather, on bad roads and amongst drug and alcohol-addled drivers – tells you accidents, while always multi-factorial, also have a massive component related to driving skill. That’s why standards for commercial pilots are so high. However a similar approach for road drivers would be hugely expensive and disruptive. If more than a few people failed, there would be outrage, especially in rural areas where a licence is important to get to work and most other things. So politicians resort to other means which are not only less controversial, but appeal to the uninformed and also conveniently don’t cost much but actually raise revenue (about a million dollars a day in Victoria). Meanwhile they ignore the massive but imperceptible indirect costs of slowing down commercial traffic.
    They are using a similar approach with The Virus, implementing easy house arrest and state border closures rather than the more difficult contact tracing and managing hot-spots, aged care, large migrant families and hospitals.

  41. Walter Plinge says:

    In Victoria if you write a grovelling letter to the authorities and you’re not a regular offender you will likely get the penalty waived. It’s deep in the VicRoads website. I’ve done it twice in a couple of decades and had the fines waived both times. The wording is —

    The Officer In Charge
    Traffic Camera Office
    GPO Box 1916
    Melbourne Vic 3001

    Dear Sir

    Infringement Notice xxxxxxx
    Registration No. xxxxxx

    I wish to apply for a caution in respect of the above notice (copy enclosed). In support of this I can state that —

    1. I have not had a speeding or traffic offence in the previous three years.
    2. I have held a full driving licence for a minimum of three years (xx years)
    3. I admit that I was exceeding the speed limit by 7 kmh
    4. I have not had a caution in the past three years

    Your favourable consideration would be greatly appreciated.

  42. feelthebern says:

    Considering the advances in breaking systems, speed limits should be going up.
    Not down.
    Anything else is lacking logic.

  43. H B Bear says:

    Could be worse. Try driving in Victoriastan.

    Periodic roadside camera fines are just a cost of doing business if you have a car.

  44. Perplexed of Brisbane says:

    Drive a white car so the cops can’t play radar snooker. Sorry if you have a red, black, blue, green, brown, yellow or pink car.

    Or drive an RAF Tornado with anti radar missiles and a jammer as the apocryphal story goes.

  45. Snoopy says:

    In Amnesia’s Queensland every ‘K’ over is a killer. The next time you notice your speed has drifted 5km/h over the limit take the time to glance behind and observe the bodies strewn in your wake.

  46. Des Deskperson says:

    The ACT has blanket 50 kph road speed limit except when where otherwise specified. This is imposed with little regard to traffic flow or the condition of the road. The CBD and other major centres of commerce and business have speed limits of 40 kph. Despite this, road deaths – small overall, 7 last year but up from 5 in 2017 – are increasing. The answer is, of course, stricter speed limits.

    The ACT uses manned speed camera vans with no advance warning signs. There are many urban legends about the vans, one involving the stealthy removal of the back number plate from a stationary van, screwing it on to a miscreant’s car and then driving past the van at speed. The ACT authorities have denied this ever happened. Since the vans pick cars at random, there would have been no guarantee that the joke would have worked.

    A friend of mine claims she once encountered, on Mugga Lane one evening, a van with all its panels and windows battered in, as well as about a dozen cop looking for the person or persons who had apparently attacked it. That never made the media.

    I’m also told that the guys who man the vans are regularly pestered by passers by who want their fines reviewed or who want to pay their registration fees or have their licences renewed. People see them as a sort of shop front.

  47. MikeS says:

    Snap TAFKAS. Found one just off Gardners Rd Mascot last month. Didn’t see the sign because of the fat arse truck next to me obscuring it.

    For a while, a few months ago patrol cars could often enough be found sitting mid way down very short on ramps to motorways e.g. Beecroft Rd onto the M2 at Beecroft, Silverwater Rd onto M4. 60kmh at the top, 100kmh at the bottom. Not a great idea to attempt the merge conspicuously slower than everyone else. Apparently not ok to be going 80k half way there.

  48. Never had a speed camera fine.
    Mum got about a half dozen in one morning.

    Down to the shops (drove about 1 k over the limit or something) (Bing!)
    Forgot purse! Slipped home to get purse (Bing!)
    Back to shops (Bing!)
    Forgot shopping list or something, back home to get it (Bing!)
    Back to shops (Bing!)
    Back home (Bing!)
    Forgot to buy bread or milk some somesuch, back to shops (Bing!)
    Back home (Bing!)

    Quite expensive when the series of photos arrived in the mail a few weeks later.

  49. duncanm says:

    Its lazy policy and camera are lazy policing.

    When did you last see a dangerous driver pulled over? They’re all over the shop, but the coppers ignore them.

    It would be much safer to pull over speeding and dodgy drivers and give them a good talking to.

    How do you even know you were speeding until two weeks later? So that’s two weeks when you would have been driving more circumspectly.

  50. yarpos says:

    ah stop sooking, you weren’t paying attention and got caught out

    I once asked VicRoads why there were so many speed transition on a bit of road I used often (something like 18 transitions in 50kms. I got back a long winded 2 page response. I summary they have no big picture view, no common sense and no sense of making it easy for drivers to comply. They just assess arbitrary bits of road and shove in speed signs. Hopeless bureaucrats.

  51. roman says:

    How many is enough?

    I think 12 is a nice number.
    29, 33, 41, 57, 58, 60, 81, 84, 89.5, 93, 112 and 144

  52. a reader says:

    It’s even worse in NSW and SA where the camera cars aren’t even owned or run by law enforcement but by private companies. Gladys’ mob quietly did away with the warning signs for camera cars (they used to show the prevailing limit on them). In SA they tell you on the news which streets they will be on tomorrow :-/

  53. roman says:

    Dot.
    School zones are an utter joke.

    So, not a fan of children ey?

  54. Bruce in WA says:

    Never had a traffic infringement of any sort (well, a parking fine in 1968).

    BUT … in WA, unless marked otherwise, the speed limit is 50 km/h. NOW … they are literally tearing out all the “50 km/h” speed signs. Why? Obvious … BUT … there is a concerted push to lower that 50 to 40 km/h. So of course, the 50 signs would be “wrong”.

    I use cruise control a LOT. Used to set it at 5 km/h over the limit, until I found from the GPS that my speedo is dead on … if it says 110 km/h, then that is what I’m doing.

  55. Lazlo says:

    I get it TAFKAS. A legitimate issue, but minor in the scheme of things.

    Maybe you are over-utilising the position you have been granted here?

  56. Fair Shake says:

    They are not speed cameras they are safety cameras
    No one can argue with safety. Refer WHS requirements and anything COVID.
    The letters are only useful if the officer in charge got one away the night before.
    You need to a accept the fines are a tax and there is f all you can do about it.
    Come visit Victoria sometime we’ll give you safety good and proper.

  57. flyingduk says:

    I used to work in a University Crash Lab. The history of speed limits is surprisingly sensible – they measured the range of speeds actually being chosen by motorists and then set the limit at the 85th centile. This of course has long since gone by the way. Whatever ‘science’ is used to set the limits, the over-riding theme is the same as any other restrictive ‘safety’ legislation – start reasonable and keep escalating. Its the same with cholesterol limits (ever dropping), safe drinking guidelines, cigarette taxes etc etc etc.

    Oops… did i just give them the idea of fining you for ‘high’ cholesterol?

  58. iamok says:

    I share your pain folks. I am on 12 points in Victoria and risk losing my license if I get done again in the next 12 months.

    I have driven dangerously once I reckon when I missed a light. The rest are bullshit such as driving on an empty 4 lane fwy with no signs doing 95 when the unseen limit was 80 ffs. My car also shows the speed limit but it is not always correct.

    Here in Danistan the fine revenue is a growing budget line item so as noted above it is a necessary revenue stream, nothing else.

    This is a NOT a fair cop, guv.

  59. Andrew says:

    “Its only always about the money all of the time”.

    Road limits are supposed to be set to the 85th percentile (a speed 85% of drivers would drive at) and here in Victoria it used to be 75% which was near enough. Now any new speed limit is always set to the speed a 90 year old grandmother would drive in a moris minor and we must never exceed that speed no matter what.

    When you are congratulating yourself for driving far far slower than you should only to reasise when you look at the speed sign you are still breaking the law something is very very wrong.
    We’ve had wide open boulevards that used to be 70 lowered to 60 then to 40 for no other reason than people mostly obey these limits and they must be made harder to follow or revenue will decrease. Then there’s red light cameras.

    There’s not a single red turn camera intersection that hasn’t had the green cycle shortened so that the last car in the line ALWAYS gets red. If you let every car though no mistakes would be made and no money would be made. seven seconds is typical for a green arrow signal. Ive seen many as short as three. Tell me that isn’t all about optimising confusion and money. Then there’s the orange cycle. It used to me much longer but again there’s no money in that, so in most cases 3 seconds is all we get. Green-orange-red three seconds. Trucks regularly sail thought these in wet weather because – um – you know – physics. Its hard enough to crash stop a car in that time and it regularly causes accidents. Accidents by the way don’t matter.

    Here in victoria I’ve never seen enforcement on things that DO kill people. Tailgating dump trucks. People swerving across three lanes to get to an exit. People cutting blind corners. These don’t matter and are never enforced. But dare to do 43 in a 40 zone on a road that used to be 70 and you’re a bad citizen and will be chased by an angry cash register in no time.

  60. Dot says:

    roman
    #3710728, posted on January 6, 2021 at 12:05 am
    Dot.
    School zones are an utter joke.

    So, not a fan of children ey?

    If you truly cared for children you’d end compulsory and taxpayer funded schooling.

  61. Bad Samaritan says:

    C’mon, Cats. Let’s discuss reality….thinking of Mick from the GC here too….

    Speeding is said to be the major factor in about 40% of serious crashes (includes fatals) while DUI is said to be the major factor in 20%. Now let’s look at how these two “offences” are treated….

    A bare minimum speeding ticket brings 1 demerit point, which theoretically allows 12 offences in three years before a licence suspension, while a bare minimum DUI (say 0.051) usually is immediate suspension. This latter occurs despite the offence being only half as dangerous (statistically) as the former.

    Why is it so? Simple……like sars-CoV2, DUI has been turned into a manufactured phobia by rogue govts and compliant media, allied with armies of Karens. However, since every driver exceeds a speed limit dozens of times every day, the simplest way to “deal with it” is to exploit this reality = milk it for all they can.

    BTW: When roman (12.05am) makes his remark concerning school zones, is he thinking ACT school zones where the lower limit applies all day from 7.30-16.00 or elsewhere where they apply for a couple of hours in the morning and then again in the afternoon. Both of these are correct since govt knows best at all times, eh?

  62. Paul says:

    Clearly the police state method of revenue raising,
    Same in victoriastan.
    Their assumption is the camera is road safety device, preventing an accident.
    Prima facie it would appear to be the case, except for the lack of other road users who you would be a danger to, or they a danger to you.
    You could argue the parked speed camera was a danger to you, as siting it could cause you to slam on the brakes and lose control
    Obviously you missed the parked speed camera vehicle as you don’t mention there was any carnage.
    So really no prospect of any accident to prevent.
    Revenue raising

  63. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    I see I have copped some from Salvatore, Dot and Bad Samaritan for my post yesterday which was brief and possibly unclear.

    I find it easy to dismiss people whinging about how hard done by they are on the roads. Principal contractors liked how we built bridges and culverts and retaining embankments but we used manfully resist putting in a price on works adjacent to “live” carriageways and the idiots who use them.

    TAFKAS kicks off with the classic “I was only a little bit over”.

    He was traveling at only 25% more than the permitted speed. If the bank teller short changed him by 25% would that be similarly trifling? Reasonable? Acceptable?

    He bleats that the signs were not clear, lousy transition markings, speed camera … blah, blah, blah. I wonder if he had driven through there before, noticed that everything had been installed by lower caste dills and written off to the roads authority, and council and his local member, suggesting they send out a work crew to fix it? You’d be surprised how often they do respond – it’s low cost and they have maintenance blokes on the go all the time.

    Nah – he had paid no attention until he needed to cast around for reasons to excuse himself.

    The last ABS vehicle census found 7 vehicles for every 10 NSW residents and five year growth of over 20%. New roads in developed urban centres take years to plan, design and build and they operate to capacity from Day One. Put all that together and you will eventually see that TAFKAS and you and I don’t have enough money to fund a government big enough to deliver every little convenience.

    Nor do they have the resources to shoulder the responsibility for you of driving like an adult conscious of the conditions.

    Speed cameras have been around for as long as oxen drawn logging drays, get over it. Slow down.

    Meanwhile all the clever innocent and ever so critical people (road design and traffic management experts all) increasingly use their vehicle and the roads like an extension to their lounge room:
    * “Can’t get this bloody remote to work properly!”,
    * “Pass me the chips dear”,
    * “Buggar, dropped me lighter”,
    * “Is that Bonce you children are watching in the back there, on the head rest TV? Turn her up, I can’t hear properly.”
    * “Hi mum. Yeah, no, yeah. I bought a lovely pair of lovely shoes this morning. Yeah. Hang on – there is a bloody siren behind me making a hell of a noise, I cannot hear you.”
    * “Oops, just missed the last corner, mounted the footpath and ploughed through the next generation of a couple of local families. I’ve been under so much stress lately.”

  64. Ragu says:

    Ask to see the calibration certificate for the device. Can’t hurt, and who knows, maybe NATA has been a bit slack lately

  65. @Mick Gold Coast QLD

    Gee Mick. Thanks for the verballing and BS cocktail.

    TAFKAS kicks off with the classic “I was only a little bit over”.

    No. TAFKAS made no such kick off. If you feel otherwise, please point it out.

    Nah – he had paid no attention until he needed to cast around for reasons to excuse himself.

    Again. Clap trap. If the purpose of the speed limits is to you know, limit speeds, should not the signage be BLOODY OBVIOUS? If it is about speed management, why should the signs be discrete. In NSW school zones, when the speed limit drops from whatever to 40kmh, there are flashing signs. Why? Presumably because around schools, the tax collectors are actually interested in speed. Why not elsewhere where the speed drops to 40? Could it be that there are other reasons, particularly when coupled with a speed camera.

    Speed cameras have been around for as long as oxen drawn logging drays, get over it. Slow down.

    I wonder if he had driven through there before,

    And no.

    And thanks for that advice. By the way, if TAFKAS does slow down and does 40 in a 60, is he also breaking the road rules and liable for a fine? What about the expected road rage.

    If NSW’s 9 speed limits were about safety, there would be more police cars on the road and much better markings signage.

    Here is a better idea. Let’s use the Covid approach. Ban all cars from the roads until the curve is flattened.

  66. John A says:

    roman #3710728, posted on January 6, 2021 at 12:05 am

    Dot.
    School zones are an utter joke.

    So, not a fan of children ey?

    No, Roman, the problem is that the concept of a school protection zone has replaced the idea of teaching children personal responsibility for safety.

    Heavens above, there are 40kph zones outside universities! Surely Adult Students should be capable of looking after themselves when crossing the road?

    And there are no protection zones for children
    a) away from schools
    b) outside of designated school hours / school days

    As Dot avers, the idea is yet another crock, invented by bureaucrats with too much time on their hands.

  67. Steve says:

    Petros,

    I disagree – I would be fairly sure that the system that uses image recognition to read speed signes is *also* logging your location and speed and when it warned you of the speed limit. And my guess is the plod will demand access to said logs in event of a bad accident.

    There is also tech that recognizes your face when you drive to set the drivers seat position etc – personally its tech I dont need nor want. And dont get me started on doors that auto-lock when you start moving……

    Its the same reason I have an android phone with location services always off off and use a nonsense google account name to install software on the very rare occiasions I need to do it.

    The trick is to firewall as much of your bits of info as possible from possible connections between systems. Ask your mechanic to erase any system logs each servivce.

    Car engine ECUs will ususally reset if you leave the battery disconnected for more than 2 days, however you may also have a backup battery that needs to be removed as well to ensure a clean start. If in doubt, have a quiet word with a mechanic you trust…chances are there are multiple things that need to be done to truly erase data.

    Something to think about.

  68. Kneel says:

    “They are not speed cameras they are safety cameras”

    Ah yes. Last time I got nicked was one of these.
    The road was wet and it was raining lightly.
    There was a heavy vehicle behind me.
    I sped up to go through the intersection rather than sail through a red (I would have got a photo ticket for that too) or stop and get punched into the intersection by said heavy vehicle.
    I sent them a letter explaining such.
    Reply was : too bad, pay up.

    “Road limits are supposed to be set to the 85th percentile (a speed 85% of drivers would drive at)”
    … and with good reason – this is the both the speed limit that creates the most compliance, and also the speed limit that results in the least death and serious injury. Shown in multiple studies world-wide. If most are set to this standard, then a sudden lower limit with no obvious reason will have most drivers obey it without question, which is surely another good reason to use it.

    Also interesting to note that while “speeding” is a contributing factor in road deaths, the definition of speeding is “exceed the posted speed limit OR drive too fast for the prevailing conditions”. Upon questioning the NSW RTA (as it was at the time), they finally admitted that 6 times as many were “…for the conditions…” than for “…exceed posted…”.

    So just remember, if you drive at night while it’s snowing, and slide off the road doing 30km/h at the hairpin bend, and the limit is 80km/h, your demise is counted as “speeding” and therefore another reason to increase enforcement and lower limits – you know it makes sense!

  69. Bill Thompson says:

    I got busted in Brisbane about 10 years ago for doing 52 in a temporary 40kph construction zone in the suburbs. I had been driving thru the zone at 40kph for a couple of k’s & turned a corner, off the main road, saw a 60kph sign about 50m ahead & began to accelerate – when a cop stepped off the footpath, pointed his radar gun & pinged me! I hadn’t been booked for about 30 years before that & was so flabbergasted that I didn’t even think to point out to the jerk that it might have been more appropriate to set about trapping people speeding INTO the zone, than in the last few metres OUT of it…

  70. roman says:

    Re school zones. If you’ve ever stood near a zebra crossing out front of a primary school, waiting for your child, you would have plenty of time to see how many drivers are oblivous to the risks they pose. I’ve seen the lolly-pop man side-swiped three times. Cars pulling in, pulling out, little kids distracted.

    I’m referring to actual school start/ finish times.

    Just slow the fuck down. If you need the threat of punishment then so be it.

    As for teaching kids responsibility, you don’t do that with 1500kg of metal at 50km/h to the side of the body.

    The reason people think the speed limits are bad is because they don’t see kids actually hit — BECAUSE OF THE SPEED LIMITS. Take those limits away and then have a think about what might happen?

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