Open Forum: January 16, 2021

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4,220 Responses to Open Forum: January 16, 2021

  1. Terry Pedersen says:

    The US doesn’t elect a President by popular vote.

    Actually it does. The winner of the popular vote gets all of the Electoral College votes in 48 of the States plus Washington DC. In the remaining States the Electoral College votes won are proportional to the popular votes won.

    [Hey Mock. Marvellous mincing of Mater Mouth this morning.]

  2. Mater says:

    The US doesn’t elect a President by popular vote.

    Actually it does.

    So given that Hillary won the popular vote in 2016 (according to Bob’s figures), she’s been President for the last four years?

    Trying to defend Bob will only end in tears, Grigs.
    Go skin another hitchhiker!

  3. Rex Anger says:

    Hi Grigory.

    Put your Ed Case suit back on. He’s far more fun than this one…

  4. Top Ender says:

    The Nazis Really Were Socialists
    From The Wallbuilders

    Recently in the mainstream media the words “Nazi” and “Hitler” are perhaps two of the most commonly used words employed by pundits and even politicians. Those on the Left go so far as to claim that the current President parallels to Hitler,[i] with some public schools even teaching it in classrooms.[ii] Members of the Right retort that the rapidly growing socialist elements within the leftist parties are more deserving of the association because “Nazi” is simply an abbreviation of its full name—Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or, National Socialist German Workers’ Party.[iii]

    With the centrality of the debate and the frequency of its usage, it is no surprise then that the political arguments have led directly into historical debates about Nazism. Thus, the most recent development in this match of political badminton has materialized in a slew of articles from left-leaning authors denying any connection between the National Socialism of Germany during Hitler’s regime and the socialism on the rise today in the American Left.[iv]

    The claim that National Socialists were not true Socialist is not entirely new, with Western Marxist and socialist economists and historians distancing themselves from Nazism by claiming that Hitler and his followers were actually capitalists.[v] The historical facts of the Nazi regime, however, leave little room for doubt, the National Socialist party truly was ideologically socialist in name and in deed.

    In order to competently answer this question definitions for both socialism and capitalism must be adopted. The generally accepted fundamental distinction between a capitalistic and a socialistic economic system rests upon the ownership of the means of production. In free markets the private ownership of capital is safeguarded as an intrinsic right which the government is bound to protect. For example, in the American tradition considers protections for private property paramount, with Thomas Jefferson explaining that:
    “A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”[vi]

    On the other hand, the general sentiments of socialist theorists suggest that the private ownership of the means of production leads only to the richer propertied classes oppressing the poorer non-propertied parts of the population. Thus, the hypothetical hallmark of a pure socialist society is one in which there is no real private ownership of the means of production, only public or state ownership.[vii] Simply put, socialism is the destruction of private property rights.

    Although there are endless varieties when it comes to methods, ends, and styles of each capitalism and socialism, for the purposes of this investigation the basic understood definitions will provide a sufficient evaluative baseline. In short, the crux of whether or not the German National Socialists can be rightly considered as true socialists comes down to the status of private property during the Nazi regime. If the rights of private ownership were protected, then Nazism ought to be viewed as a form of capitalism. If, however, the Nazis dramatically infringed upon property rights to the extent that they failed to meaningfully exists, then their self-appointed moniker is rightly applied.

    To discover how the Nazis approached the matter of private property Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf naturally reveals the early rational which would soon materialize once he gained power in 1933. The significance of Mein Kampf is seemingly often overlooked today with some writers drawing conclusions which even a quick perusal of the text directly refutes,[viii] but Hitler’s manifesto certainly captured much of what it meant to be a National Socialist. So much so, that the German Ministry of Culture later instructed that:
    “Boys and girls in their teens must acquire a proper insight in order to understand this new Bible of the People. They must become acquainted and familiar with the lines of policy traced therein by the master’s hand. The grown-ups must, by reading this book, purify and strengthen their civic consciousness.”[ix]
    Whatever the effect it had on German readers, one quickly learns two key facts concerning Hitler’s economic thought throughout Mein Kampf. First, that Hitler viewed Marxism as a J ewish scheme to destroy nations for their own capitalistic ends.[x] He explains that:
    “I resumed the process of learning, and so came to realize for the first time what it was that the life work of the J ew Karl Marx was directed toward. Now I really began to comprehend his Capital, as well as the struggle of Social Democracy against the national economy.”[xi]

    Hitler continued later in Mein Kampf to declare Marxism nothing more than “the pure essence of the J ew’s attempts” to achieve the “destructive purposes of the international world J ew.”[xii] For National Socialism to successfully come to power, Hitler believed that they must be extremely wary of being “eaten away by the poison of Marxism,” because the two ideologies, are on the face, so similar.[xiii] In fact, the future Führer wrote:
    “What must fundamentally distinguish the populist world-concept [Nazi worldview] from the Marxist one is the fact that it recognizes not only the value of race, but the importance of the personality, and thus makes these the pillars of its whole structure…If the National Socialist movement were not to understand the fundamental significance of this basic realization, and instead were superficially to patch up the present State, or actually to regard the mass standpoint as its own [i.e. Democratic Socialism, which was a major party in Germany at the time], it would really be only a party competing with Marxism.”[xiv]

    Thus, from Hitler’s perspective, Marxism differed from Nazism because the Nazis would not let the “international J ew” use them for capitalist ends, nor would they let any element of democracy remain. In fact, democratic elements were so repugnant to the National Socialist theory that the:
    “State must release all leadership, but particularly the highest—that is the political—leadership, from its parliamentary principle of the majority (i.e. mass) rule.… Of course every man has counsellors to assist him, but one man makes the decision.”[xv]

    This explains Nazism’s repression of Marxists throughout the regime—a fact sometimes offered as proof of National Socialism’s underlying capitalism. But Hitler and his followers rejected Marxism on the belief that it was a clandestine method for achieving capitalism, believing that the class warfare was merely a pretense, “meant solely to prepare the ground for the rule of truly international finance capital.”[xvi]
    Thus, the problem with Marxism for the Nazis was its J ewish connections and Hitler’s belief in an undercover capitalism inherent in the methodology suggested for reaching socialism, not anything pertaining to economic socialism itself. Therefore, the professed goal of a Marxist revolution—that being socialism—was still a valid and desirable end, but the method for attainment would be that of German Nationalism.

    In fact, Hitler routinely showed his frustration for those whose, “brains have not grasped the difference between Socialism and Marxism even yet.”[xvii] Significantly, the more astute and principled of German businessmen resisted Nazism on the grounds that it was a modification of Marxism sharing the same goal but substituting the class struggle with race.[xviii]

    The second revelation about Hitler’s economic development is that after his interaction with soon-to-be Nazi economist Gottfried Feder, Hitler’s whole view towards capitalism and wider economics changed.[xix] Feder became one of the earliest members of the National Socialist party and his economic policy had enormous influence early on.

    Hitler explains that even though he was, “attentive as I had always been to economic problems,” his knowledge was relegated to social experience with little theoretical development.[xx] But upon listening to Feder’s lectures, “the idea instantly flashed through my head that I had now found my way to one of the prime essentials of the foundation of a new party.”[xxi] These ideas led directly to the formal creation of the Nazi Party.

    The influence of Feder on Hitler extended well beyond the pages of Mein Kamp. It is notably present when Hitler announced the Twenty-Five Points on February 24, 1920, which constituted the political platform of the National Socialist party (at this point they were still the German Workers’ party, but changed the name later that year). Along with the typical and expected aspects of pre-war Nazism (such as abrogation of the Treaty of Versailles, the restoration of the colonies, and blatant anti-Semitism), there were many plainly socialist aspects reflecting Hitler’s growing commitment to the system.

    Points 7 and 10 suggested increased government interference and control of the “industry and livelihood of citizens,” through ensuring everyone “work with his mind or with his body…for the general good.”[xxii] Point 11 demanded the “abolition of incomes unearned by work,” while point 13 called for the “nationalization of all businesses.”[xxiii] Many of the other articles within the platform—such as points 14, 15, 17, and 18—all advocated for distinct increases in government control of finances and close regulation of profits and property.

    It was in the principles of the Twenty-Five Points that Hitler declared:
    “The National-Socialist German Workers’ Party has a foundation which must be immovable. The task of our movement’s present and coming members must consist not in critically reworking these guiding principles, but in pledging themselves to them.”[xxiv]

    But what happened once Hitler and his National Socialist party took power? His socialist intentions to regulate, direct, and nationalize the economic nature of Germany were plain, but upon taking the reins how did the Nazis manage their newfound Reich?

    An invaluable source of information concerning the economy of the National Socialist Germany comes from those dissident voices who managed to escape the censors or flee before all contact to the outside world was cut off. One such voice was Emil Lederer, a J ewish professor of economics at the University of Berlin who fled to America after being deposed of his teaching position. In a 1937 article he explained a fundamental law of economic theory, writing that, “inasmuch as reality is never the crystallization of a pure principle, every historical system is more or less a compromise.”[xxv]

    Thus, the Nazis were never able to perfect their Twenty-Five Points and create a pure socialist system—much like any other proclaimed socialist state, reality universally underperforms the ideal. In Hitler’s Germany, however, the central economic planners were able to get remarkably far in securing the government supremacy. Lederer concludes that, “this new economic system built up in Germany, taken in its structural character,” was designed so that the entire population was, “organized for purposes fixed by the government.”[xxvi]

    Lederer is far from alone in his evaluation. Famous Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises, building off of his famous 1940 work on economics, declared shortly after the war that:
    “The doctrines of Nazism are vicious, but they do not essentially disagree with the ideologies of socialism and nationalism as approved by other peoples’ public opinion. What characterized the Nazis was only the consistent application of these ideologies to the special conditions of Germany.”[xxvii]

    Later in his writings Mises identifies Nazism as one of the “two patterns for the realization of socialism,” with the other being Russian Bolshevism.[xxviii] The key distinction between the German and Russian varieties, is that National Socialism, despite their intentions, “nominally and seemingly preserves private ownership of the means of production.”[xxix] At this point, some writers positively declare that Nazis were not real socialists and instead sought to preserve a capitalistic system, or at the least they failed to actively purge capitalism from their midst.[xxx]

    However, although the term “private property” was preserved, it remained little more than an entry in the dictionaries. At any moment, if the Nazi leadership demanded it, anyone could be deprived of all their assets without warning or recourse. For example, we see the appropriation of the Junkers airplane factory in 1934 and the institution of Hermann Goring Works in 1937 designed specifically to, “encourage compliance with government production plans.”[xxxi]

    Similarly, when even some of the most powerful manufacturers failed to meet government demands, “the state simply replaced his organization with one better suited to the National Socialist war effort.”[xxxii] In the end:
    “the state therefore could direct the firms’ activities without acquiring direct ownership of enterprises.…They were opposed to capitalism and formal markets.”[xxxiii]

    A different German businessman lamented to a confidant that the situation meant the destruction of private industry through a variety of means, saying that:
    “You have no idea how far State control goes and how much power the Nazi representatives have over our work.…These Nazi radicals think of nothing except ‘distributing the wealth.’ Some businessmen have even started studying Marxist theories, so that they will have a better understanding of the present economic system.…You cannot imagine how taxation has increased. Yet everyone is afraid to complain about it. The new State loans are nothing but confiscation of private property.”[xxxiv]

    In the end, Nazism left no room for private property. If the state has the power, ability, and inclination to confiscate the means of production whenever their wishes are not conformed to there is no real private ownership anymore. A common anecdote within the cowering business class remarked that:
    “Under National Socialism you are allowed to keep the cows; but the State takes all the milk, and you have the expense and labor of feeding them.”[xxxv]

    This nominalization was even outlined by Nazi economist Othmar Spann who desired a state where private ownership existed only in a, “formal sense, while in fact there will be only public ownership.”[xxxvi]

    The effects of the National Socialist system of central planning, government control, and arbitrary powers destroyed whatever vestiges of private financial vivacity remained, with the purposes of making it all the easier for the State to consolidate its grip on every aspect of production. Quality of goods rapidly fell while prices remained steady, and out of what little raw materials which were available most was rapaciously consumed by the military. Thus, as early as, “1936 almost complete control over production could be exerted.”[xxxvii]

    Even in military matters, the Nazi system was ill-equipped, and despite outspending England nearly two-to-one in 1940, Germany still produced 50% fewer planes and 100% fewer vehicles.[xxxviii] Additionally, factory laborers often were required to work up to 70 hours per week without a corresponding rise in wages.[xxxix]

    Therefore, National Socialism rightfully earns its designation because it generally achieved, or significantly worked toward, the hallmarks of a socialist system. The objection on the grounds of private property has been proven to be merely a mirage, with the arbitrary State being the ultimate decision maker and real owner of the means of production.

    To a large extent, perhaps unparalleled anywhere besides the Soviet Union, Hitler realized his vision of autocratic socialism. Thereby confirming his 1925 threat that, “the future lord of the highway is National Socialism,”[xl] which exists solely because, “it has the life of a people to destine and to regulate anew.”[xli] Nazism is clearly inseparable from socialism and ought to be recognized as such.

    [i] Gavriel D. Rosenfeld, “An American Führer? Nazi Analogies and the Struggle to Explain Donald Trump,” Central European History Volume 52, Issue 4 (December 2019): 554-587.
    [ii] Aris Folley, “Maryland Republicans criticize high school lesson comparing Trump to Nazis, communists,” The Hill (February 23, 2020), https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/484284-maryland-republicans-criticize-high-school-lesson-comparing-trump-to (accessed March 28, 2020).
    [iii] Dinesh D’Souza, The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left (Washington: Regnery, 2017).
    [iv] Josh Bresnahan, “Bizarre fight breaks out in House over whether socialists are Nazis,” Politico (March 26, 2019): https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/26/congress-socialist-nazi-debate-1237472 (accessed March 28, 2020); Jane Coaston, “Adolf Hitler was not a Socialist,” Vox (March 27, 2019): https://www.vox.com/2019/3/27/18283879/nazism-socialism-hitler-gop-brooks-gohmert (accessed March 28, 2020); Ronald Granieri, “The Right Needs to Stop Falsely Claiming that the Nazis were Socialists,” The Washington Post (February 5, 2020), https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/05/right-needs-stop-falsely-claiming-that-nazis-were-socialists/ (accessed March 26, 2020); David Emory, “Were the Nazis Socialists?” Snopes (accessed March 28, 2020): https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/.
    [v] Cf. Maxine Sweezy, The Structure of the Nazi Economy (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1941); Richard Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich (New York: Penguin Group, 2003), 173; Ian Kershaw, Hitler: A Biography (New York: W. W. Norton & Company, 2010), 269-270.
    [vi] Thomas Jefferson, “Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801,” The Works of Thomas Jefferson (New York: G. P. Putnam’s Sons, 1905), 9.197.
    [vii] Cf., Ludwig von Mises, Human Action: A Treatise on Economics (Indianapolis: Liberty Fund, 1996), 4.998.
    [viii] For a clear example of this see, Kershaw, Hitler, 269-270.
    [ix] Quoted in the preface to, Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (New York: Stackpole Sons Publishers, 1939), 5.
    [x] Hitler, Mein Kampf, 194, 212, 305-307, 433, 469, 525.
    [xi] Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (New York: Stackpole Sons Publishers, 1939), 212.
    [xii] Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (New York: Stackpole Sons Publishers, 1939), 433.
    [xiii] Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (New York: Stackpole Sons Publishers, 1939), 435.
    [xiv] Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (New York: Stackpole Sons Publishers, 1939), 434-435.
    [xv] Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (New York: Stackpole Sons Publishers, 1939), 435.
    [xvi] Hitler, Mein Kampf, 212.
    [xvii] Hitler, Mein Kampf, 469.
    [xviii] Matt Bera, Lobbying Hitler: Industrial Associations between Democracy and Dictatorship (New York: Berghahn Books, 2016), 222.
    [xix] Hitler, Mein Kampf, 206-208, 212.
    [xx] Hitler, Mein Kampf, 206.
    [xxi] Hitler, Mein Kampf, 208.
    [xxii] Anson Babinbach and Sander L. Gilman, “The Program of the German Workers’ Party: The Twenty-Five Points,” The Third Reich Sourcebook (Berkeley: University of California Press, 2013), 13.
    [xxiii] Babinbach, “The Program of the German Workers’ Party,” 13.
    [xxiv] Hitler, Mein Kampf, 446.
    [xxv] Emil Lederer, “The Economic Doctrine of National Socialism,” The Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science 191 (1937): 221.
    [xxvi] Lederer, “The Economic Doctrine of National Socialism,” 225.
    [xxvii] Mises, Human, 1.187.
    [xxviii] Mises, Human, 3.717.
    [xxix] Mises, Human, 3.717-718.
    [xxx] Cf. Kershaw, Hitler, 269-270; Granieri, “The Right Needs to Stop Falsely Claiming that the Nazis were Socialists”; Gunter Reimann, The Vampire Economy: Doing Business Under Fascism (New York: Vanguard Press, 1939), 314; John D. Heyl, “Hitler’s Economic Thought: A Reappraisal,” Central European History 6, no. 1 (1973): 92.
    [xxxi] Peter Temin, “Soviet and Nazi Economic Planning in the 1930s,” The Economic History Review, New Series, 44, no. 4 (1991): 576-577.
    [xxxii] Bera, Lobbying Hitler, 224.
    [xxxiii] Temin, “Soviet and Nazi Economic Planning,” 583, 588.
    [xxxiv] Reimann, The Vampire Economy, 6-7.
    [xxxv] Reimann, The Vampire Economy, 309.
    [xxxvi] Quoted in Mises, Human Action, 2.683.
    [xxxvii] Arthur Van Riel and Arthur Schram, “Weimar Economic Decline, Nazi Economic Recovery, and the Stabilization of Political Dictatorship,” The Journal of Economic History 53, no. 1 (1993): 97-98.
    [xxxviii] R. J. Overy, “Hitler’s War and the German Economy: A Reinterpretation,” The Economic History Review, 35, no. 2 (1982): 286.
    [xxxix] C., “Will Hitler Save Democracy?” Foreign Affairs 17, no. 3 (1939): 461
    [xl] Hitler, Mein Kampf, 525.
    [xli] Hitler, Mein Kampf, 559.

  5. 132andBush says:

    A Bidency is going to lead to the US no longer being oil self sufficient.

    Anyone care to opine?

  6. Top Ender says:

    https://wallbuilders.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/Title-photo.png won’t paste into the Cat for an unknown reason – have checked for all possible bad words to no avail

  7. shatterzzz says:

    Someone’s Mummy bought the right tee shirt for Xmas .. LOL!
    https://ibb.co/VjP973d

  8. twostix says:

    Just copy and paste the entire internet and be done with it.

  9. jo says:

    He is an ostrich, but instead of burying his head in the sand, he has thrust it up his rectum. The view there is just as restricted.

    He’s got his head up there so often I think he enjoys the view.

  10. Leigh Lowe says:

    twostix

    #3728735, posted on January 18, 2021 at 4:56 pm

    Just copy and paste the entire internet and be done with it.

    😀😀😀
    It was a little bit heavy going before the page turn

  11. kaysee says:

    Doctor: Masks Are Killing You – Take Them Off Now! (6:50)

    This U.S. Doctor is telling you the TRUTH about how wearing masks is literally killing you and this is what they hope will happen to all of us.
    Wake Up now before you’re DEAD!

  12. Entropy says:

    Serious Q: has any of the news channels featured how the bushfire ravaged country in SEOz is doing currently? In a regrowth sense.

  13. Rex Anger says:

    Green

  14. Knuckle Dragger says:

    So, do you reckon Hitler was left or right wing?

  15. 1735099 says:

    Just copy and paste the entire internet and be done with it.

    Go easy.
    Most posters here lack any capacity to do anything else.
    But it does provide an insight into where all the weird ideas come from.

  16. Knuckle Dragger says:

    What? Did I miss something?

    I’m not here 24/7 you know.

  17. Mater says:

    So, do you reckon Hitler was left or right wing?

    Bob doesn’t use the term Left or Right…apparently.

  18. 132andBush says:

    But it does provide an insight into where all the weird ideas come from.

    From primary source?

    How’s Mao’s little red book been for you in that regard?

  19. Terry Pedersen says:

    So given that Hillary won the popular vote in 2016 (according to Bob’s figures), she’s been President for the last four years?

    Winner takes all in 48 States plus Washington DC. The surplus votes get subsumed in the individual State personal vote tallies. Worked for the soon to be ex-President in 2016 and against him in 2020.

  20. 132andBush says:

    What? Did I miss something?

    I’m not here 24/7 you know.

    Roger Moore brown bread.

  21. Knuckle Dragger says:

    Aha. St. Ruth of Walkitback:

    ‘You threatened violence, plain and simple.’

    Yes, really. From ‘I’ve got news for them, and it’s all bad.’

    If I was going to go around threatening violence – against anyone – on an anonymous blog, well I might be confused with two other posters that spring to mind. But not me. I was actually referring to showing ‘them’ some considered responses from subject matter experts to counterpoints germane to the argument.

    Then again, maybe I was ‘just blowing off some steam’. That one works for the Furniture Shop Trio (St. Ruth of Walkitback on vocals).

  22. Leigh Lowe says:

    Knuckle Dragger

    #3728741, posted on January 18, 2021 at 5:01 pm

    So, do you reckon Hitler was left or right wing?

    Do you reckon that would draw any responses if it had it’s own dedicated thread?

  23. Nick says:

    KD, apparently Struth and Faulty have had a massive Barney over cunnilingus.

  24. Mater says:

    Winner takes all in 48 States plus Washington DC. The surplus votes get subsumed in the individual State personal vote tallies. Worked for the soon to be ex-President in 2016 and against him in 2020.

    Ok you mental midget, let’s try this.

    Bob claimed that I’d need to find 7 million cases of fraud to flip the election.
    Given a free hand, a pencil and an eraser, do I need to change 7 million votes to flip the election result?
    Yes or no?

  25. Nick says:

    Do you reckon that would draw any responses if it had it’s own dedicated thread?

    CL will put it up as a post on the front page any minute soon.

  26. kaysee says:

    Are Trump’s advisers his loyal supporters, and is there something happening there with all the evidence they have? Or are they are traitors just waiting for his term to end?

    This video shows Mike Lindell meeting Trump with “proof” but he was getting blocked by White House staff. In an interview with Right-Side Broadcasting Network, he has revealed why exactly he was there and what happened when he met the President.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHNpNlFXJcY

  27. Knuckle Dragger says:

    ‘Roger Moore brown bread.’

    What? How could this have happened? Why was I not informed?

    Excuse me. I must go immediately to all the other threads and pass on the bad news. I’m sure people will thank me for being so thoughtful, but it’s not necessary – it’s just what I’m about.

  28. lotocoti says:

    So, do you reckon Hitler was left or right wing?

    He was a vegetarian, so that roast chook dilemma was never raised.

  29. 1735099 says:

    These people are historians – not opinionistas –

    Nazism, socialism and the falsification of history – Matthew Fitzpatrick and A. Dirk Moses
    (Matthew Fitzpatrick is Associate Professor of International History at Flinders University. A. Dirk Moses is Professor of Modern History at the University of Sydney, and the author of German Intellectuals and the Nazi Past.)

    At a time when conservative governments, the Murdoch press and their corporately funded think-tank supporters run down university departments of history in this country, the need for careful interpretations of the past has never been more evident.

    At stake is nothing less than the meaning of twentieth-century history and the historical origins of modern ideologies.

    Whether out of ignorance or on political grounds, the shape of the political spectrum – from left to right – is being challenged by revisionists backed by vested interests that seek to undermine the welfare state.

    This revisionism has been gaining ground for years in the right-wing parallel universe in the United States. It is now going mainstream in Australia courtesy of Sky News, which recently hosted a self-identified Nazi, instigating a predictable controversy.

    But now it is Sky’s own journalists who are rewriting history – this time, by insinuation rather than outright scandal.

    Thus, last week, Paul Murray complained that young people tempted by left-wing politics fail to understand that the Second World War was waged against socialism. Presumably by this he meant the Axis powers, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

    This bizarre view fails to consider the inconvenient fact that the Allies included among its number the communist Soviet Union, the state that bore the brunt of the conflict in lives and domestic destruction. But inconvenient facts should not get in the way of a convenient narrative. “The modern culture doesn’t understand WWII,” lamented Murray. “Too many of this generation want socialism and don’t understand what their relatives fought for and that’s why we speak up about it.”

    Murray – himself no historian – seems not to understand the war, yet his erstwhile Sky News colleague, political scientist, Australian columnist and now ABC commentator Peter van Onselen, leapt to his defence on Twitter late on 16 August. “There have been plenty of criticisms of Paul I’ve been reading on social media, pointing out Hitler was a fascist not a socialist,” he wrote, adding: “Nazism is national socialism which is considered a branch of socialism.” Claire Lehmann, founder of the Quillette magazine, fashionable blog of the right-wing commentariat, chimed in: “I thought everybody knew this already.” The Australian parallel universe was coming into view.

    Well, thankfully, not “everybody” is an adherent to the jejune News Corp view of history, despite the fact that Sky News streams into public places across the continent. Van Onselen’s cavalier tweet provoked a firm Twitter response from over 1,500 people (including us). Feeling exposed, he quickly composed an opinion piece on the “Socialist Roots of Nazism” for the Australian, which duly appeared online the next day.

    Emboldened, van Onselen also took to Twitter to promote his intervention, but confused readers by sending mixed messages: “This piece explains how the Nazis turned on the socialists in their own ranks in the 1930s” (actually, it was much earlier than that, as we detail below). And in another tweet agreeing with a U.S. think tanker that fascism “is a fatal combination of nationalism and socialism,” he added: “I know, but I am blown away by the hostile abuse I’ve received. I’m not defending it, I’m not linking it to democratic socialism. People are reactionary and vile. I’m done engaging on twitter, this is it. Only posting links from now on, not reading or engaging with mentions, ever”.

    But is it really fair to call the response van Onselen received “hostile abuse”? His position was criticised, to be sure – and for good reason. He blamed “mainstream socialists” for misconstruing his words. He then went on to note that the left-right spectrum is actually “more of an incomplete circle,” with the extremes of both ends almost connecting with one another. As a rarefied theory of political science, such sweeping revisionism might pass muster somewhere, but it has nothing to do with the history of Weimar or Nazi Germany, where both Nazis and socialists understood perfectly well where they stood in relation to one another.

    Put bluntly, van Onselen’s position not only confuses history, it also echoes some of the broader, more malign attempts at historical falsification abroad at present.

    The spectre of “Judeo-Bolshevism”
    Peter van Onselen’s error is one of fact, not interpretation. Any analysis of the electoral platforms, internal party dynamics and political actions of the Nazis between 1921 and 1945 makes this clear. Perhaps the German Workers Party – the party of around 100 members led by Anton Drexler that preceded the Nazi Party (NSDAP) – might have sought to cobble authoritarian anti-capitalism (which is not the same as socialism) onto biological racism. The early, pre-Nazi party that Hitler joined toyed with forms of market control to benefit small businesses and to halt ostensible “foreign” – that is, Joowish – control over markets. But such dalliances would not last long. Yes, Mussolini had been a socialist early during the First World War, but broke with his comrades to support Italian expansionism, and then formed his fascist party to crush them. As in fascist Italy, Nazi ideas were self-consciously formulated to negate those of the left, not to imitate them. When Hitler took over the party in 1921, he shredded the anti-capitalist parts of the old party’s platform.

    This was a politics forged in the late days of the German revolution, when Hitler began to imagine Germany assailed by a double threat of Jews and Bolsheviks emanating from the Russian east: “Judeo-Bolshevism.” This position would undergird the foreign policy aspects of Mein Kampf. Far from supporting anti-colonial movements at the time, as did socialists around the world, he admired the British Empire as a paragon of “Aryan” rule over inferiors, and hoped to cooperate with the British in rescuing Western civilization from Soviet “Asiatic” barbarism.

    Under Hitler, the party looked squarely to the middle classes and farmers rather than the working class for a political base. Hitler realigned it to ensure that it was an anti-socialist, anti-liberal, authoritarian, pro-business party – particularly after the failed Beerhall Putsch of 1923. The “socialism” in the name National Socialism was a strategically chosen misnomer designed to attract working class votes where possible, but they refused to take the bait. The vast majority voted for the Communist or Social Democratic parties.

    The minority anti-capitalist strand of Nazism (Strasserism) on which van Onselen fastens was eliminated well before 1934, when Gregor Strasser and the Storm Trooper (SA) leader Ernst Roehm were murdered with over eighty others in the “Night of the Long Knives.” In fact, Strasserism had already been defeated at the Bamberg Conference of 1926 when the Nazis were polling under 3% of the vote. Here, Hitler brought the dissidents back into line, denouncing them as “communists” and ruling out land expropriations and grassroots decision-making. He heightened the party’s alliance with businesses small and large, and insisted on the absolute centralisation of decision-making – the “Fuehrer (leader) Principle.”

    When the already isolated Strasser brothers tried to reinvigorate their project one last time in 1930, Hitler and Goebbels banded together to force Otto Strasser to leave the party and Gregor Strasser to publicly recant. When the first electoral breakthrough to a popular vote of 18% came in 1930, the Nazi party’s anti-capitalist minority were well and truly defeated. The “Night of the Long Knives” purged the old SA, not because they were a hidden vestige of socialism, but because Roehm’s army of street thugs were a potential threat to Hitler’s personal consolidation of power. A struggle over socialism in the Nazi party played absolutely no role in the purge of 1934.

    For their part, businesses welcomed the Nazis’ promises to suppress the left. On 20 February 1933, Hitler and Goering met with a large group of industrialists when Hitler declared that democracy and business were incompatible and that the workers needed to be dragged away from socialism. He promised bold action to protect their businesses and property from communism. The industrialists – including leading figures from I.G. Farben, Hoesch, Krupp, Siemens, Allianz and other senior mining and manufacturing groups – then contributed more than two million Reichsmarks to the Nazi election fund, with Goering tellingly suggesting that this would probably be the last election for a hundred years. Business leadership happily jettisoned democracy to rid Germany of socialism and to smash organised labour.

    After fighting four elections between 1930 and 1933 on an anti-left and anti-Joowish platform that pledged to slay the mythical beast of “Judeo-Bolshevism,” Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 and made good on his promises to business and his voters to destroy socialism in Germany. Most of 1933 was spent persecuting socialists and communists, liquidating their parties, incarcerating and in numerous cases killing their leadership and rank-and-file members.

    Trade unions had been in Hitler’s sights since a general strike paralysed a right-wing-coup (Kapp Putsch) in 1920. He had witnessed the striking workers and vowed that never again would organised labour prevent the right coming to power. It was the left (trade unions and Jews), after all, that he and others on the right thought had “stabbed” the nation in the back on the home-front to cause the loss of the First World War. By early May 1933, the trade unions had been destroyed. German socialism was in tatters. Not for nothing did Nazis say that the “ideas of 1933” (their national-racial “revolution”) had vanquished those of “1789” – namely, the French Revolution and its ideals of equality, fraternity and liberty that have animated the left ever since.

    For all the Nazi talk of “four-year plans” and the “guidance of the state,” the sanctity of private property and freedom of contract was always preserved under the Nazis, even during the war years. Socialism – in particular, Bolshevism – on the other hand, were pernicious, “Joowish” imports that threatened the vitality of the German Volk.

    Liberal fascism?
    So if the Nazis were so obviously anti-socialist, and believed so ardently in the virtues of private property and entrepreneurship, and if socialists were among the earliest and hardest hit victims of the Nazi party prior to the Second World War, why is Hitler being proclaimed by some as a socialist?

    Peter van Onselen may not equate democratic socialism with national socialism, but his argument makes precisely this association: they are both different “branches” of the same family – “socialism” – thereby making the Joowish Democrat Bernie Sanders an ideological cousin of Adolf Hitler.

    If the absurdity of this style of reasoning is all too apparent, it is nonetheless widely believed. Already in 2007 in his book Liberal Fascism, Jonah Goldberg ran the line that “the original fascists were really on the left, and that liberals from Woodrow Wilson to FDR to Hillary Clinton have advocated policies and principles remarkably similar to those of Hitler’s National Socialism and Mussolini’s Fascism.” Ever since, conservatives charge “liberal fascism” when their views and behaviour are challenged.

    The current revisionist bible is Dinesh D’Souza’s The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left published in the United States last year to predictable applause from the right-wing parallel universe. It inverts the left-wing case that Trumpism is an incipient form of fascism (a view with which neither of us agrees, and that Dirk Moses has explicitly criticised) to argue that the Democrats and left in general are the true heirs of fascism. Not Trump but Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are Mussolini or Hitler’s ideological offspring.

    D’Souza stands in the tradition of neo-liberals like the Austrian economist F.A. Hayek, who conflated fascism and communism as forms of collectivism inimical to the market economy and freedom it claims to represent. Peter van Onselen makes a related point by trotting out the venerable theory of totalitarianism to equate fascism and communism as similarly illiberal. In D’Souza’s rendering, the American New Deal that rescued millions of Americans from poverty after the Great Depression was a form of fascism because it entailed state intervention. (Was the much greater state economic planning during the war effort that aided Hitler’s defeat also a form of socialism/fascism, one wonders?)

    Herewith we come to the effect, if not the point, of the revisionist exposition: it is not only to transfer the stigma of the Second World War’s genocidal violence from the right to the left, so that criticisms of racialized populism can be dismissed as “leftist fascism.” It is also to suggest that the war was a crusade against state collectivism of all types – including the welfare state for which many Westerners, in fact, fought. They reason by means of a simplistic, ahistorical syllogism: since socialism is statism/collectivism (like public health and public transport), and Nazism was statist/collectivist (and promoted public health and public transport), social democratic public health and public transport measures must be fascist.

    The war against welfare states
    Needless to say, this is a perverse and pernicious misinterpretation of historical facts. The Atlantic Charter, declared by U.S. President Roosevelt and British Prime Minister Churchill in 1941, set out the principles of the post-war order, which included the “advancement of social welfare” and working “for a world free of want and fear.” A year later, the British Beveridge Report on social welfare met such popular support that a reluctant cabinet felt compelled to accept it. When the war ended, the people promptly replaced Churchill’s government with a Labour one to implement its recommendations.

    Three years later, the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights, inspired by the Atlantic Charter, reflected the Zeitgeist in Article 25: “Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and wellbeing of himself and his family including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood.” Welfare states were thus established or extended after the war. They have now been under concerted attack since the 1970s. Governments across the Western world are still deregulating, imposing austerity and attacking unions to further increase business profit margins. The emergence of leaders like Trump around the globe signals an intensification of this tendency.

    Worried by the popularity among young people of politicians like Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders who oppose these tendencies, however, the corporate and media sponsors of the attacks on the welfare state now seek to discredit the social democratic platform by disparaging it as historically fascist. That is also why they attack reputable sources of news like the ABC, and why they seek at once to discredit universities as “politically correct” and to pervert their mission by inserting into them privatised think thanks espousing Hayakian ideology. So, too, they proffer the perverse thesis of fascism-as-socialism, finding ready adherents in right-wing corners of the twittersphere and in business circles.

    The collective ignorance displayed by this revisionist commentariat is proportionally related to the outlandishness of its historical interpretations and its sophomoric ignorance of the recent history of Western civilization.

    The revisionists likely neither know nor care that the monument erected to the German strikers who lost their lives confronting the Kapp Putsch was ritually destroyed by the Nazis in 1936. But others do. Whether those who remember the past can confront the slow-motion putsch against welfare states and the historical experiences of the catastrophic twentieth century that spawned them remains an open question.

  30. Knuckle Dragger says:

    Nick:

    ‘KD, apparently Struth and Faulty have had a massive Barney over cunnilingus.’

    They did, a while back. The key point turned out to be whether the recipient was dead at the time.

    Turned out it was a toe in the water for Faulty to start grooming the vulnerable.

  31. Terry Pedersen says:

    Mater Mouth, I am uninterested in what another may or may not have said. What interests me is what you said, viz.

    The US doesn’t elect a President by popular vote.

    I corrected your error.

  32. Knuckle Dragger says:

    Yuuuge storms swinging south of the Gabba.

    Lead of 323, thank you Pat Cummins. Another 20 minutes and the call centre operators will have an hour to bat, rain and/or bad light notwithstanding.

    Oh. All out. Once again, 150 shy of the mark and ‘Wadey’ might be following Duck Egg Joe to the BBL.

  33. thefrollickingmole says:

    Roger Moore brown bread.

    At least we will always have Sean Connery.

  34. Leigh Lowe says:

    CL will put it up as a post on the front page any minute soon.

    And Albatross will be here whingeing that C.L. is deleting comments.
    It happens, Albo, from time-to-time.
    Usually when one touches on stuff which is defamatory or makes baseless accusations that someone is a peter-file.

  35. H B Bear says:

    Where would we be without you Gargooglery? Why are people so unkind?

  36. thefrollickingmole says:

    Bobs type of people.

    Soviet archives documented 390,000[12] deaths during kulak forced resettlement and up to 400,000 deaths of persons deported to forced settlements during the 1940s;[13] however, Nicolas Werth places overall deaths closer to some 1 to 1.5 million perishing as a result of the deportations.[6] Contemporary historians classify these deportations as a crime against humanity and an ethnic persecution. Two of these cases with the highest mortality rates, the deportation of the Crimean Tatars and the deportation of the Chechens and Ingush, were recognized as genocides by Ukraine (plus 3 other countries) and the European Parliament respectively.[1][2] On 26 April 1991 the Supreme Soviet of the Russian Socialist Federal Soviet Republic, under its chairman Boris Yeltsin, passed the law On the Rehabilitation of Repressed Peoples with Article 2 denouncing all mass deportations as “Stalin’s policy of defamation and genocide.

  37. Leigh Lowe says:

    ‘KD, apparently Struth and Faulty have had a massive Barney over cunnilingus.’

    Really?
    Was one of them doing it wrong?

  38. Mater says:

    The US doesn’t elect a President by popular vote.

    I corrected your error.

    I was writing for my audience.

    Bob defines winning the popular vote as the national total.

    Besides, you are wrong:

    In other U.S. elections, candidates are elected directly by popular vote. But the president and vice president are not elected directly by citizens.

    https://www.usa.gov/election

  39. Leigh Lowe says:

    ‘KD, apparently Struth and Faulty have had a massive Barney over cunnilingus.’

    Big odds against C.L. starting a dedicated thread on that one.

  40. 1735099 says:

    These people are historians – not opinionistas –

    Nazism, socialism and the falsification of history – Matthew Fitzpatrick and A. Dirk Moses
    (Matthew Fitzpatrick is Associate Professor of International History at Flinders University. A. Dirk Moses is Professor of Modern History at the University of Sydney, and the author of German Intellectuals and the Nazi Past.)

    At a time when conservative governments, the Murdoch press and their corporately funded think-tank supporters run down university departments of history in this country, the need for careful interpretations of the past has never been more evident.

    At stake is nothing less than the meaning of twentieth-century history and the historical origins of modern ideologies.

    Whether out of ignorance or on political grounds, the shape of the political spectrum – from left to right – is being challenged by revisionists backed by vested interests that seek to undermine the welfare state.

    This revisionism has been gaining ground for years in the right-wing parallel universe in the United States. It is now going mainstream in Australia courtesy of Sky News, which recently hosted a self-identified Nazi, instigating a predictable controversy.

    But now it is Sky’s own journalists who are rewriting history – this time, by insinuation rather than outright scandal.

    Thus, last week, Paul Murray complained that young people tempted by left-wing politics fail to understand that the Second World War was waged against socialism. Presumably by this he meant the Axis powers, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

    This bizarre view fails to consider the inconvenient fact that the Allies included among its number the communist Soviet Union, the state that bore the brunt of the conflict in lives and domestic destruction. But inconvenient facts should not get in the way of a convenient narrative. “The modern culture doesn’t understand WWII,” lamented Murray. “Too many of this generation want socialism and don’t understand what their relatives fought for and that’s why we speak up about it.”

    Murray – himself no historian – seems not to understand the war, yet his erstwhile Sky News colleague, political scientist, Australian columnist and now ABC commentator Peter van Onselen, leapt to his defence on Twitter late on 16 August. “There have been plenty of criticisms of Paul I’ve been reading on social media, pointing out Hitler was a fascist not a socialist,” he wrote, adding: “Nazism is national socialism which is considered a branch of socialism.” Claire Lehmann, founder of the Quillette magazine, fashionable blog of the right-wing commentariat, chimed in: “I thought everybody knew this already.” The Australian parallel universe was coming into view.

    Well, thankfully, not “everybody” is an adherent to the jejune News Corp view of history, despite the fact that Sky News streams into public places across the continent. Van Onselen’s cavalier tweet provoked a firm Twitter response from over 1,500 people (including us). Feeling exposed, he quickly composed an opinion piece on the “Socialist Roots of Nazism” for the Australian, which duly appeared online the next day.

    Emboldened, van Onselen also took to Twitter to promote his intervention, but confused readers by sending mixed messages: “This piece explains how the Nazis turned on the socialists in their own ranks in the 1930s” (actually, it was much earlier than that, as we detail below). And in another tweet agreeing with a U.S. think tanker that fascism “is a fatal combination of nationalism and socialism,” he added: “I know, but I am blown away by the hostile abuse I’ve received. I’m not defending it, I’m not linking it to democratic socialism. People are reactionary and vile. I’m done engaging on twitter, this is it. Only posting links from now on, not reading or engaging with mentions, ever”.

    But is it really fair to call the response van Onselen received “hostile abuse”? His position was criticised, to be sure – and for good reason. He blamed “mainstream socialists” for misconstruing his words. He then went on to note that the left-right spectrum is actually “more of an incomplete circle,” with the extremes of both ends almost connecting with one another. As a rarefied theory of political science, such sweeping revisionism might pass muster somewhere, but it has nothing to do with the history of Weimar or Nazi Germany, where both Nazis and socialists understood perfectly well where they stood in relation to one another.

    Put bluntly, van Onselen’s position not only confuses history, it also echoes some of the broader, more malign attempts at historical falsification abroad at present.

    The spectre of “Judeo-Bolshevism”
    Peter van Onselen’s error is one of fact, not interpretation. Any analysis of the electoral platforms, internal party dynamics and political actions of the Nazis between 1921 and 1945 makes this clear. Perhaps the German Workers Party – the party of around 100 members led by Anton Drexler that preceded the Nazi Party (NSDAP) – might have sought to cobble authoritarian anti-capitalism (which is not the same as socialism) onto biological racism. The early, pre-Nazi party that Hitler joined toyed with forms of market control to benefit small businesses and to halt ostensible “foreign” – that is, Joowish – control over markets. But such dalliances would not last long. Yes, Mussolini had been a socialist early during the First World War, but broke with his comrades to support Italian expansionism, and then formed his fascist party to crush them. As in fascist Italy, Nazi ideas were self-consciously formulated to negate those of the left, not to imitate them. When Hitler took over the party in 1921, he shredded the anti-capitalist parts of the old party’s platform.

    This was a politics forged in the late days of the German revolution, when Hitler began to imagine Germany assailed by a double threat of Joows and Bolsheviks emanating from the Russian east: “Judeo-Bolshevism.” This position would undergird the foreign policy aspects of Mein Kampf. Far from supporting anti-colonial movements at the time, as did socialists around the world, he admired the British Empire as a paragon of “Aryan” rule over inferiors, and hoped to cooperate with the British in rescuing Western civilization from Soviet “Asiatic” barbarism.

    Under Hitler, the party looked squarely to the middle classes and farmers rather than the working class for a political base. Hitler realigned it to ensure that it was an anti-socialist, anti-liberal, authoritarian, pro-business party – particularly after the failed Beerhall Putsch of 1923. The “socialism” in the name National Socialism was a strategically chosen misnomer designed to attract working class votes where possible, but they refused to take the bait. The vast majority voted for the Communist or Social Democratic parties.

    The minority anti-capitalist strand of Nazism (Strasserism) on which van Onselen fastens was eliminated well before 1934, when Gregor Strasser and the Storm Trooper (SA) leader Ernst Roehm were murdered with over eighty others in the “Night of the Long Knives.” In fact, Strasserism had already been defeated at the Bamberg Conference of 1926 when the Nazis were polling under 3% of the vote. Here, Hitler brought the dissidents back into line, denouncing them as “communists” and ruling out land expropriations and grassroots decision-making. He heightened the party’s alliance with businesses small and large, and insisted on the absolute centralisation of decision-making – the “Fuehrer (leader) Principle.”

    When the already isolated Strasser brothers tried to reinvigorate their project one last time in 1930, Hitler and Goebbels banded together to force Otto Strasser to leave the party and Gregor Strasser to publicly recant. When the first electoral breakthrough to a popular vote of 18% came in 1930, the Nazi party’s anti-capitalist minority were well and truly defeated. The “Night of the Long Knives” purged the old SA, not because they were a hidden vestige of socialism, but because Roehm’s army of street thugs were a potential threat to Hitler’s personal consolidation of power. A struggle over socialism in the Nazi party played absolutely no role in the purge of 1934.

    For their part, businesses welcomed the Nazis’ promises to suppress the left. On 20 February 1933, Hitler and Goering met with a large group of industrialists when Hitler declared that democracy and business were incompatible and that the workers needed to be dragged away from socialism. He promised bold action to protect their businesses and property from communism. The industrialists – including leading figures from I.G. Farben, Hoesch, Krupp, Siemens, Allianz and other senior mining and manufacturing groups – then contributed more than two million Reichsmarks to the Nazi election fund, with Goering tellingly suggesting that this would probably be the last election for a hundred years. Business leadership happily jettisoned democracy to rid Germany of socialism and to smash organised labour.

    After fighting four elections between 1930 and 1933 on an anti-left and anti-Joowish platform that pledged to slay the mythical beast of “Judeo-Bolshevism,” Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 and made good on his promises to business and his voters to destroy socialism in Germany. Most of 1933 was spent persecuting socialists and communists, liquidating their parties, incarcerating and in numerous cases killing their leadership and rank-and-file members.

    Trade unions had been in Hitler’s sights since a general strike paralysed a right-wing-coup (Kapp Putsch) in 1920. He had witnessed the striking workers and vowed that never again would organised labour prevent the right coming to power. It was the left (trade unions and Joows), after all, that he and others on the right thought had “stabbed” the nation in the back on the home-front to cause the loss of the First World War. By early May 1933, the trade unions had been destroyed. German socialism was in tatters. Not for nothing did Nazis say that the “ideas of 1933” (their national-racial “revolution”) had vanquished those of “1789” – namely, the French Revolution and its ideals of equality, fraternity and liberty that have animated the left ever since.

    For all the Nazi talk of “four-year plans” and the “guidance of the state,” the sanctity of private property and freedom of contract was always preserved under the Nazis, even during the war years. Socialism – in particular, Bolshevism – on the other hand, were pernicious, “Joowish” imports that threatened the vitality of the German Volk.

    Liberal fascism?
    So if the Nazis were so obviously anti-socialist, and believed so ardently in the virtues of private property and entrepreneurship, and if socialists were among the earliest and hardest hit victims of the Nazi party prior to the Second World War, why is Hitler being proclaimed by some as a socialist?

    Peter van Onselen may not equate democratic socialism with national socialism, but his argument makes precisely this association: they are both different “branches” of the same family – “socialism” – thereby making the Joowish Democrat Bernie Sanders an ideological cousin of Adolf Hitler.

    If the absurdity of this style of reasoning is all too apparent, it is nonetheless widely believed. Already in 2007 in his book Liberal Fascism, Jonah Goldberg ran the line that “the original fascists were really on the left, and that liberals from Woodrow Wilson to FDR to Hillary Clinton have advocated policies and principles remarkably similar to those of Hitler’s National Socialism and Mussolini’s Fascism.” Ever since, conservatives charge “liberal fascism” when their views and behaviour are challenged.

    The current revisionist bible is Dinesh D’Souza’s The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left published in the United States last year to predictable applause from the right-wing parallel universe. It inverts the left-wing case that Trumpism is an incipient form of fascism (a view with which neither of us agrees, and that Dirk Moses has explicitly criticised) to argue that the Democrats and left in general are the true heirs of fascism. Not Trump but Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are Mussolini or Hitler’s ideological offspring.

    D’Souza stands in the tradition of neo-liberals like the Austrian economist F.A. Hayek, who conflated fascism and communism as forms of collectivism inimical to the market economy and freedom it claims to represent. Peter van Onselen makes a related point by trotting out the venerable theory of totalitarianism to equate fascism and communism as similarly illiberal. In D’Souza’s rendering, the American New Deal that rescued millions of Americans from poverty after the Great Depression was a form of fascism because it entailed state intervention. (Was the much greater state economic planning during the war effort that aided Hitler’s defeat also a form of socialism/fascism, one wonders?)

    Herewith we come to the effect, if not the point, of the revisionist exposition: it is not only to transfer the stigma of the Second World War’s genocidal violence from the right to the left, so that criticisms of racialized populism can be dismissed as “leftist fascism.” It is also to suggest that the war was a crusade against state collectivism of all types – including the welfare state for which many Westerners, in fact, fought. They reason by means of a simplistic, ahistorical syllogism: since socialism is statism/collectivism (like public health and public transport), and Nazism was statist/collectivist (and promoted public health and public transport), social democratic public health and public transport measures must be fascist.

    The war against welfare states
    Needless to say, this is a perverse and pernicious misinterpretation of historical facts. The Atlantic Charter, declared by U.S. President Roosevelt and British Prime Minister Churchill in 1941, set out the principles of the post-war order, which included the “advancement of social welfare” and working “for a world free of want and fear.” A year later, the British Beveridge Report on social welfare met such popular support that a reluctant cabinet felt compelled to accept it. When the war ended, the people promptly replaced Churchill’s government with a Labour one to implement its recommendations.

    Three years later, the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights, inspired by the Atlantic Charter, reflected the Zeitgeist in Article 25: “Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and wellbeing of himself and his family including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood.” Welfare states were thus established or extended after the war. They have now been under concerted attack since the 1970s. Governments across the Western world are still deregulating, imposing austerity and attacking unions to further increase business profit margins. The emergence of leaders like Trump around the globe signals an intensification of this tendency.

    Worried by the popularity among young people of politicians like Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders who oppose these tendencies, however, the corporate and media sponsors of the attacks on the welfare state now seek to discredit the social democratic platform by disparaging it as historically fascist. That is also why they attack reputable sources of news like the ABC, and why they seek at once to discredit universities as “politically correct” and to pervert their mission by inserting into them privatised think thanks espousing Hayakian ideology. So, too, they proffer the perverse thesis of fascism-as-socialism, finding ready adherents in right-wing corners of the twittersphere and in business circles.

    The collective ignorance displayed by this revisionist commentariat is proportionally related to the outlandishness of its historical interpretations and its sophomoric ignorance of the recent history of Western civilization.

    The revisionists likely neither know nor care that the monument erected to the German strikers who lost their lives confronting the Kapp Putsch was ritually destroyed by the Nazis in 1936. But others do. Whether those who remember the past can confront the slow-motion putsch against welfare states and the historical experiences of the catastrophic twentieth century that spawned them remains an open question.

  41. Mater says:

    Expanded:

    In other U.S. elections, candidates are elected directly by popular vote. But the president and vice president are not elected directly by citizens. Instead, they’re chosen by “electors” through a process called the Electoral College.

    The process of using electors comes from the Constitution. It was a compromise between a popular vote by citizens and a vote in Congress.

  42. Roger says:

    These people are historians – not opinionistas –

    My advice about primary sources appears to have gone straight over his head.

  43. Leigh Lowe says:

    Oh. All out. Once again, 150 shy of the mark and ‘Wadey’ might be following Duck Egg Joe to the BBL.

    Yep.
    I was all for giving Wadey a go.
    He has now had his go and muffed* it.
    Bye.
    See, Googlery.
    You don’t have to be wedded to a player for life.
    You are allowed to go off them when they fail.
    .
    * Not a reference to cunninglinguist.

  44. Nick says:

    Big odds against C.L. starting a dedicated thread on that one.

    Yeah. Someone will have to explain to CL what cunnilingus is first.

  45. H B Bear says:

    Yellow card for length NamBob.

    Red card for wrongology. Now fuck off.

  46. Mater says:

    My advice about primary sources appears to have gone straight over his head.

    Conveniently ignored in favour of a light weight, superficial essay, which he has referenced on at least three prior occasions.

  47. Nick says:

    I was all for giving Wadey a go.

    He has the eyes of a rabbit molestor

  48. Dr Faustus says:

    A Bidency is going to lead to the US no longer being oil self sufficient.

    The Bidency is going to choke off fraccing. So far he’s walked both sides of the fence on that, but no need to pretend anymore, because Congress Insurrection.

    Luckily, the House Marxist-Leninists (Cocktail Waitress Faction) plans to ban ICE vehicles, so it probably won’t matter in terms of self- sufficiency.

  49. Struth says:

    Yes walk it back KD.

    Yes, you were just going to read the fine print of the terms and conditions to them.

    But we haven’t established who “they” are, have we…conveniently left out, shall we go back and look?

  50. Mater says:

    Trade unions had been in Hitler’s sights since a general strike paralysed a right-wing-coup (Kapp Putsch) in 1920.

    Hey Bob,

    From the US Holocaust Museum:

    Teachers
    Public school teachers were obliged to join the Nazi Teachers Union and, like other civil servants, take an oath of loyalty to Hitler as Führer.

  51. thefrollickingmole says:

    At a time when conservative governments, the Murdoch press and their corporately funded think-tank supporters run down university departments of history in this country

    Team America already covered this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGn55BRyDSk

  52. Leigh Lowe says:

    A bloke gave me a ten minute download last night about what a massive front-runner sook Mitchell Starc is.
    Right on cue, the footings are all wrong, hammies are tight, got the wrong boots on.

  53. H B Bear says:

    At a time when conservative governments, the Murdoch press and their corporately funded think-tank supporters run down university departments of history in this country, the need for careful interpretations of the past has never been more evident.

    Oh dear. At least it saves you from having to read any further.

  54. The crux of it is:
    1. Very few trust the Government,
    2. Even fewer trust the statistics they come up with,
    3. Even fewer trust the lying bastards who disseminate the information.

    We have a crisis in governance of the nation.

  55. H B Bear says:

    He has the eyes of a rabbit molestor

    Who cares. What does he average?

  56. Leigh Lowe says:

    The only thing damaging University History departments in this country is their failure to teach history.

  57. Leigh Lowe says:

    H B Bear

    #3728802, posted on January 18, 2021 at 5:40 pm

    He has the eyes of a rabbit molestor

    Who cares. What does he average?

    0.00 today.

  58. Johno says:

    Bom radar says that we had 5 mil rain last night. My rain gauge says “no strange little people, the fact is, we had zero rain.” How could they get this so wrong? And why?

  59. Delta A says:

    has any of the news channels featured how the bushfire ravaged country in SEOz is doing currently?

    We drove home today through the Adelaide hills bushfire region. Some of the trees – about 10% – are still struggling, but most are garlanded in lush green growth. The burnt pine windbreaks and forests have been cut down, leaving some places looking sad and bare. There are several burnt out houses still standing, one only a fireplace and chimney.

    Good rain last season sees the dams full and great swathes of green even now in mid-summer, brightening the landscape.

    As for the fires on KI, which burnt two thirds of the Island: Son was heavily involved in the clean-up, regeneration and rebuilding. As with the Adelaide Hills, good rains have helped greatly with the regrowth. Those farmers who did sow this years are getting good returns.

    KI, especially, was the benefactor of huge cash donations via gov’t agencies and various appeals. This money has been used to restore sporting club buildings and equipment – lacking city entertainments, Islanders are sport crazy – private and public buildings and general infrastructure. However, it will be sometime before KI recovers fully from those horrific fires.

  60. Struth:

    All yous edumacated types must be rooly pissed orf a fucking dumb truckie is smarter than yoos .

    Very good, struth.

  61. Leigh Lowe says:

    HB Bear.
    Wade averages just on 30, which is only just OK if he was a wickety-batter.
    But as a specialist #5 or #6 that isn’t good enough.
    And, quite apart from the raw numbers, his dismissals this series would make a park cricketer blush.

  62. 132andBush says:

    At a time when conservative governments, the Murdoch press and their corporately funded think-tank supporters run down university departments of history in this country, the need for careful interpretations of the past has never been more evident.

    Read no more!

  63. Nick says:

    Who cares. What does he average?

    About two rabbits a week

  64. Knuckle Dragger says:

    mole:

    ‘Soviet archives documented 390,000[12] deaths during kulak forced resettlement and up to 400,000 deaths of persons deported to forced settlements during the 1940s;[13] however, Nicolas Werth places overall deaths closer to some 1 to 1.5 million perishing as a result of the deportations.[6] Contemporary historians classify these deportations as a crime against humanity and an ethnic persecution. Two of these cases with the highest mortality rates, the deportation of the Crimean Tatars and the deportation of the Chechens and Ingush, were recognized as genocides by Ukraine (plus 3 other countries) and the European Parliament respectively.[1][2] On 26 April 1991 the Supreme Soviet of the Russian Socialist Federal Soviet Republic, under its chairman Boris Yeltsin, passed the law On the Rehabilitation of Repressed Peoples with Article 2 denouncing all mass deportations as “Stalin’s policy of defamation and genocide.’

    No, no, no. The Gulag Archipelago is fiction. Liability Bob will tell you allllll about it.

  65. thefrollickingmole says:

    Notice how the worlds most fearsome tent slayer has not addressed a single point in any of the posts made.

    Resorting instead to waffle “your wrong because I found someone who agrees with me” and an amazing ability to not see even primary sources.

    Can I claim Stalin was fascist because he destroyed or brought under his control workers unions, including imprisoning or killing those who resisted?

    http://soviethistory.msu.edu/1921-2/militarization-of-labor/
    These and other forms of compulsory labor, including the enlistment of the trade unions in administering punitive measures against “labor deserters,” were endorsed by the Ninth Party Congress in March 1920. However, when Trotsky cited the need to “shake up” the unions themselves (along the lines of what already had been done to the union of railroad workers), it provoked outrage among party activists and especially from the Workers’ Opposition. The issue roiled until the Tenth Party Congress in March 1921 when Trotsky’s proposal for “statification” of the trade unions was soundly defeated. Nevertheless, while rejected in principle, the subordination of the trade unions to the state was achieved in practice via tight party control of the unions’ All-Russian Central Council.

  66. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    President-elect Joe Biden plans to cancel the permit for the Keystone XL pipeline on his first day in office, according to several news sources.

    Chalk up another good one for bringing the country together. Along with re-signing the Paris Agreement, offering assistance to small business owners by prioritising their needs on the basis of their ethnicity, re-introducing and expanding gender diversity and critical race theory into the theories and practices of schools, and doing nary a thing to stop Pelosi whipping up hatreds with her Impeachment program, one of her many devices to entrap President Trump throughout his Presidency.

    Joe bounds into Office and does an immediate faceplant. It won’t get any better either.

  67. Delta A says:

    CL will put it up as a post on the front page any minute soon.

    I have great respect for C.L.

    I also enjoy (most of) his posts. And the bottom line: he takes the time to put it out there, raising topics for discussion or derision. A good Cat, IMO.

  68. The Frollicking Moll:

    Privates fissure is stinging again this morning.
    It would heal if it could just stop picking at it.
    Even its doctor has said the same “leave it alone, you will never find peace while you pick at it, its already 50+ times bigger than when you started”
    But it cant stop.
    The memories of the 12″ rubber conscription phallus it never had the moral courage to say no too still probes at its nethers.
    So it will keep picking at its ‘precious”…

    After an introduction like that, and you think I’m going to click on a link you provide?
    No bloody way!
    (It’s probably Callies three old chooks.)

  69. 132andBush says:

    Snap, HB Bear.

  70. Knuckle Dragger says:

    St. Ruth Walkitback*:

    ‘Yes walk it back KD.’
    ‘But we haven’t established who “they” are, have we…conveniently left out, shall we go back and look?’

    Yes, let’s. Off you go. Let me know who ‘they’ are, because I referred to ‘anyone’ in my original post. I won’t be surprised when you deduce the mystery ‘they’ are agrarian socialist globalist Chinese lizard people Gates clones and chemtrail makers.

    While you’re there, try and find anyone who said I was on board with their violent, inevitable people’s revolution against those who have the guns.

    *Remember who it is that accuses others of doing exactly what they themselves are up to?

  71. thefrollickingmole says:

    Is it too early?

    <a href="from Imgflip Meme Generator“>Miss me yet?

  72. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    the Bidency

    I love it. I think we have our term for discussion of the daily thrust of events.

    Biden of the Bidency. It has the ring of truth to it.

  73. thefrollickingmole says:

    Nope, blew that link, try again

    Miss me yet?

    I think Biden is hoping the economic damage from his ‘tard programs can be masked by the uptick once Corona theater stops.

  74. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    I also enjoy (most of) his posts. And the bottom line: he takes the time to put it out there, raising topics for discussion or derision. A good Cat, IMO.

    Highly valued. +1

  75. TFM:

    But there I go, living down to the spinster stereotype of envy and bitterness. How is it possible that, despite being raised by a feminist mother and enjoying a life rich with friendships and meaningful employment, I still feel the stigma of that word? Or fear that, even in middle age, I haven’t achieved the status of a true adult woman?

    Perhaps the vaccine prevents self introspection as well.

  76. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    CL also joins in the fray down here at the ringside. Not all authorised posters do that.

  77. Speedbox says:

    We all saw this coming as a result of Parler’s ban by the Apple Store. From RT:

    The Coalition for a Safer Web, a nonprofit founded by an ex-US ambassador, has sued Apple, demanding it deletes Telegram from its store, arguing that the app is being used to “incite extreme violence” ahead of the inauguration.

    The Washington-based nonprofit and its president Marc Ginsberg, who served as US ambassador to Morocco from 1994 to 1998 and was deputy senior adviser to the US president on Middle East Policy (1978–1981), argue in the newly filed federal lawsuit that Apple has failed to hold Telegram accountable for violating its terms of service.

    The complaint, filed on Sunday with the US District Court for Northern California, accuses Telegram of allowing anti-Semites, white supremacists and other extremists to thrive on its platform, with Apple purportedly turning a blind eye to the fact.

    Arguing that Apple should banish Telegram from its store without delay, the suit draws on Parler’s case as precedent, noting: “Apple has not taken any action against Telegram comparable to the action it has taken against Parler to compel Telegram to improve its content moderation policies.”

    The nonprofit told the Washington Post on Sunday that it plans to mount a similar lawsuit against Google.

    Telegram has seen explosive growth in its user base after established social media platforms, such as Twitter, Facebook and YouTube, blocked US President Donald Trump and launched a crackdown on his supporters.

    https://www.rt.com/usa/512822-telegram-lawsuit-apple-remove/

  78. thefrollickingmole says:

    Retired mong herder now over on another thread waiting till its freshly chafed fissure needs repicking.

    Either that or it retains enough self awareness to scuttle off and wait for the evidence of its latest yellow snow eating episode to slip a few pages back.

  79. Leigh Lowe says:

    St Ruth:- “All yous edumacated types must be rooly pissed orf a fucking dumb truckie is smarter than yoos.”

    Oh.
    That again.
    Here’s the thing.
    People from all walks of life have different aptitudes and life experiences from which they hopefully learn.
    All people.
    That is the reason I for one gave St Ruth a sideswipe about his job(s).
    I agree that formal education doesn’t give one a mortgage on knowledge of all things.
    However, St Ruth went the full inverse snobbery route.
    He constantly denigrated perfessers* and book-learnin’ types as “head in clouds” dumbarses who were clueless about almost any subject, at least when compared with His Omnipotence.
    Many, many stories of how St Ruth left these people dumbfounded with his brilliance on the bus tours.
    News Flash – these people probably thought, “Why bother ruining my holiday by getting in an argument with Captain Belligerent?”
    .
    * The owner of this site is, in fact, a “dumbo Perfesser”.

  80. TFM:

    That old cock carousel has dried up and suddenly you are stranded…

    Perhaps she should have skipped the part where she read that she could stay on the carousel and hubby wouldn’t mind?
    I’m reminded of the woman who JC told us about who wanted introductions to the young men and got the reply from the bloke who essentially told her she was Christmas Cake.
    I wish I’d kept it.

  81. Rex Anger says:

    Is this thing on?

  82. Rex Anger says:

    Phewf.

  83. Struth says:

    Stop scarying me with your threatening behaviour KD.
    You cops are scary bullies, and all this rough talk of yours is really making me fill my daks.

    Desist with this violent language and remember, many people are looking to have this blog closed down, and you going around scaring everyone and threatening “bad news” (and we all know what that means coming from Vic plod types).
    And it has nothing to do with the ABC.

  84. Leigh Lowe says:

    I have great respect for C.L.

    I also enjoy (most of) his posts. And the bottom line: he takes the time to put it out there, raising topics for discussion or derision. A good Cat, IMO.

    Ditto.
    I have disagreed with him on different things from time-to-time but I find his posts well constructed and cogently argued (ignoring his corny headlines for a moment!).
    He has at least had the courage to utter the heresy that Trump has not done everything perfectly, especially since November.

  85. Rex Anger says:

    Either that or it retains enough self awareness to scuttle off and wait for the evidence of its latest yellow snow eating episode to slip a few pages back.

    Nope. Same tired memes on the Treason of the Intellectuals thread.

    Ditto Grigory wanking on about how superior Straya is cos allegedly you don’t have to be rich or have rich mates to get into/succeed in politics here. And how big donations don’t happen etc. etc.

    My riposte has been eaten twice, so the Universe seems to have declared that this latest eructation of Grigory’s wrongology is not worth chasing down…

  86. Leigh Lowe says:

    … and remember, many people are looking to have this blog closed down …

    Possibly.
    But Faulty is gone and NFA looks to be on probation.

  87. MatrixTransform says:

    My advice about primary sources appears to have gone straight over through his head

  88. thefrollickingmole says:

    I’m reminded of the woman who JC told us about who wanted introductions to the young men and got the reply from the bloke who essentially told her she was Christmas Cake.

    I must have missed that one.

    That article has so many highlights, I particularly loved the “I went on tinder/bumble/dating sites and found out i wasnt matched with anyone”.

    Given the wide range of perversity online that must be some super refined algorithm shes using to exclude millions of men not quite desperate enough to inquire about beagle ownership yet.

  89. Rex Anger says:

    He has at least had the courage to utter the heresy that Trump has not done everything perfectly, especially since November.

    Who said it was utter heresy?

    Given that umpteen ‘Cvntservatives’ and other TDS people have prefaced their bilious rantings with ‘Eorta… or “If Only…” for the last 5-odd years, to make any sort of posting like that was going to attract ire.

    I mean, look at Lucy…

  90. notafan says:

    Why sook about spinsterhood? It was your choice by the sounds.

    I have several spinster (and bachelor) relatives, none rode that delightful carousel, whether through shyness or just genuine failure to meet the right person, they are single, as have been others in prior generations.

    Getting married isnt a guarantee of happiness either.

  91. Struth says:

    He constantly denigrated perfessers* and book-learnin’ types as “head in clouds” dumbarses who were clueless about almost any subject, at least when compared with His Omnipotence.

    Yep, can’t fault that.
    Couldn’t tie their own elastic sided boots.

    The owner of this site is, in fact, a “dumbo Perfesser”.

    He thought Turnbull was excellent.

    I rest my case.

  92. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    the spinster stereotype

    When women were real spinsters they spun wool, and some of them were married. If they were not they were still valued members of a household, aunts to a horde of nephews, nieces and others.

    Perhaps having a ‘feminist mother’ is not all it’s cracked up to be if the word ‘spinster’ can still bring on the horrors, for it should not. Unmarried women have a proud tradition as workers and as members of families, and in this day and age, no unmarried middle-aged woman need be lonely in her life. Children grow up and move away, people divorce, partners die, so take comfort in that you are now in the same boat as many others. Get out and find friends and even lovers is my advice. Quit the introspection.

  93. MatrixTransform says:

    Getting married isnt a guarantee of happiness either.

    amen

  94. thefrollickingmole says:

    notafan
    #3728844, posted on January 18, 2021 at 6:18 pm
    Why sook about spinsterhood? It was your choice by the sounds.

    Because the movies and hollywood people said it would be different….
    And they wouldnt lie.

    Also picked up an unopened time magazine from 2004. What a time capsule.

    Johnny Derp as a young indie stud muffin actor
    Bird flu crisis (how i laughed)
    10 questions with Harvey Weinstein (none about violated ficus pot plants)
    A Quote from Alexander Downer about ho it was essential to tell the truth about bad situations immediately (Re bird flu)
    How Kerry was the right man for America, or maybe that nice Dean fellow.

    None of it has aged well.

  95. Terry Pedersen says:

    The US doesn’t elect a President by popular vote.

    I corrected your error.

    Besides, you are wrong:

    In other U.S. elections, candidates are elected directly by popular vote. But the president and vice president are not elected directly by citizens.

    .

    Disingenuous of you, Mater Mouth. You didn’t say directly, nor did I. So, my correction of your error stands.

  96. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    Notice how the worlds most fearsome tent slayer has not addressed a single point in any of the posts made.

    As usual.
    Data and primary sources are so inconvenient to lefties.
    Their eyes glaze over and their brains explode.

  97. notafan says:

    Struts doing exactly what he is accusing KD of.

    Only a sky screamer would claim ‘bad news’ is a threat of violence.

    And why the constant references to police when KD is a vendor of fine street food.

    Or are you vying with grigs for the title of DOX King?

  98. Rex Anger says:

    Disingenuous of you, Mater Mouth. You didn’t say directly, nor did I. So, my correction of your error stands.

    No Grigory.

    Your sophistry failed you again.

    Poor-quality trolling.

    Break out your Ed Case suit and have a spazz about Buteyko breathing and crystalline salt instead. Terry and Flatus both need a break…

  99. notafan says:

    *Another very obvious attempt to do Calli last night by TP

  100. Albatross says:

    Leigh Lowe
    #3728775, posted on January 18, 2021 at 5:23 pm
    CL will put it up as a post on the front page any minute soon.

    And Albatross will be here whingeing that C.L. is deleting comments.
    It happens, Albo, from time-to-time.
    Usually when one touches on stuff which is defamatory or makes baseless accusations that someone is a peter-file.

    Horseshit. He deletes critical comments because he has a glass jaw. Big surprise you’re an apologist for it.

  101. MatrixTransform says:

    St Ruth’s point I think is that yr getting fucked and that for the most part, yous wouldn’t know a train was up ya until the people got out

    I think I’ll have another gin

  102. bespoke says:

    Southern fried chicken.

  103. H B Bear says:

    Because the movies and hollywood people said it would be different….
    And they wouldnt lie.

    If you are looking for someone to blame perhaps your fellow woman, as usual?

  104. Mater says:

    Disingenuous of you, Mater Mouth. You didn’t say directly, nor did I. So, my correction of your error stands.

    No, but it was implied in Bob’s argument about finding 7 million cases of fraud.

    Weak as piss, fuck off!

  105. areff says:

    The albatross is also known as the gooney bird.

    Seems appropriate.

  106. MatrixTransform says:

    Southern fried chicken.

    That reminds me … just finished watching the whole series of a docco on Country Music on SBS(?)

    was damn fine chykynsys

    *recommend

  107. Tel says:

    Children as young as nine returning unaccompanied to Australia are being forced to isolate alone for two weeks in the same quarantine facilities as adults who have mutant strains of COVID-19.

    Whoever is parent in Australia that the unaccompanied nine year old was visiting should be grabbed and put into quarantine with the kiddy.

  108. Albatross says:

    mutant strains

    LOOOL! What a retarded timeline.

  109. Tel says:

    … and in this day and age, no unmarried middle-aged woman need be lonely in her life …

    Not if she knows how to install a few apps on her phone.

  110. notafan says:

    Yes by the NWO secret cabal.

    Forgive me if I take that prediction with a silo of salt.

    Its just a slightly more subtle version of annerant.

  111. Speedbox says:

    Just another day. Sample from RT:

    Slovakians will not be allowed to go to work or make a trip to the countryside unless they have recently tested negative for Covid-19. The rule comes into effect next week
    https://www.rt.com/news/512824-slovakia-negative-coronavirus-test-mandatory/

    Beginning January 25, Austrians will have to wear respirator-type FFP2 masks in supermarkets, pharmacies, gas stations, and on public transport. The FFP2s offer better protection against airborne infections than cheaper, single-use surgical masks.
    https://www.rt.com/news/512810-austria-lockdown-mask-rules/

    Thousands of anti-lockdown protesters took to the streets of Amsterdam, decrying restrictive measures against the coronavirus. The unauthorized gathering was met with a strong riot police force.
    The anti-lockdown protesters gathered in the center of the Netherlands capital on Sunday, despite failing to get authorization for the rally from the authorities.

    https://www.rt.com/news/512802-anti-lockdown-protest-amsterdam/

    Bharat Biotech, an Indian pharmaceutical firm whose Covid-19 vaccine is being used in a nationwide immunization drive, has promised to fork over cash to those who suffer serious side effects from the drug. Biotech’s Covaxin is one of two jabs that have received emergency approval in India. Covishield, a jab based on the AstraZeneca/Oxford formula, is also being administered in a nationwide immunization drive that began on Saturday.
    https://www.rt.com/news/512791-bharat-biotech-india-compensation-covid-vaccine/

    Some 10,000 people marched through the center of the Austrian capital Vienna on Saturday to protest against restrictions aimed at stopping the spread of Covid-19, and to demand the resignation of Chancellor Sebastian Kurz.
    https://www.rt.com/news/512761-vienna-coronavirus-lockdown-protest/

    German police have taken into custody a Slovenian man who refused to wear a mask at Frankfurt Airport and threatened to kill everybody, thus prompting an evacuation of parts of the building and a train station’s closure.
    https://www.rt.com/news/512767-frankfurt-airport-evacuation-mask/

    At least 13 Israelis have experienced facial paralysis after being administered the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine, a month after the US Food and Drug Administration reported similar issues but said they weren’t linked to the jab.
    https://www.rt.com/news/512736-israel-facial-paralysis-13-covid-vaccine/

    Though much of Italy remains under strict coronavirus restrictions, restaurants and bars have opened their doors in protest. Customers drank, ate, sang, and in one viral video, apparently booted the police back out the door.
    https://www.rt.com/news/512744-italy-restaurants-protest-lockdown/

  112. bespoke says:

    Schnitzel last night Matrix, beet that.

  113. Nick says:

    I can’t wait till Vietnam gets the vaccine. Now THATS going to be a collision 🙂

  114. notafan says:

    It may surprise some that normal people can lead perfectly happy fulfilled lives without sex, virtual or otherwise.

  115. thefrollickingmole says:

    Tel

    Apparently this prize couldnt find anyone to match with.

    spoiler (that she considered worthy according to hollywood standards)

  116. Struth:

    And Soros has only being trying to stay alive since then………and keep his halo shiny…..
    With this sort of idiocy and naivety, I hope those that are finding me a bit too abrupt these days, can understand why.

    I understand and sympathise, struth.
    Sometimes the convoluted thinking is quite odd.
    Digits isn’t the only person here with cause and effect back arsewards.

  117. Old Lefty says:

    Well for one thing, Mark McStalin of WA wouldn’t have let anyone in:

    ‘With just four Tests played over the current Australian summer, ABC Sport commentator Dirk Nannes has questioned why Brisbane was given hosting rights instead of Perth.’

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-18/australia-vs-india-dirk-nannes-does-brisbane-deserve-test/13066926

  118. Knuckle Dragger says:

    St. Ruth of Walkitback, just down the road from a hamlet called Deflection:

    ‘Stop scarying me with your threatening behaviour KD.’

    In all seriousness St. Ruth, please. I have no idea what you are referring to. If you were to please point out who I’ve threatened and/or how, I’ll go back and locate that comment. I’ll then make a public apology to the threatenee. Whoever that may be. Possibly the lizard agrarians.

    I DO know you’re resorting to the Faulty Strategy Mk I of drawing attention to the Furniture Shop.

    Hi Faulty. I know you’re reading this. Please stop using St. Ruth as an Elmo puppet, because he used to be cool.

  119. Diogenes says:

    … and in this day and age, no unmarried middle-aged woman need be lonely in her life …

    It is always interesting to listen pre middle age sisterhood discussing their lists*. They are surprised when it is pointed out that there are roughly 7million males aged 24 to 54, If each item on the list, assuming each item reduces the pool on average by 50% , after 10 items, there are a potential 6000 candidates – across ALL of Australia.

    * I want a tradie with his own business, who owns his home and an investment property and loves surfing and is blond with blue eyes who wants kids, but doesnt have an ex partner with kids etc etc

  120. MatrixTransform says:

    beet that

    nothing wrong with schnitzel

    I got left over slow cooked pork bally from yesterday, with roasted spuds and a salad

  121. Knuckle Dragger says:

    ‘But Faulty is gone and NFA looks to be on probation.’

    I still reckon there’s been a Yoko Ono moment in there somewhere.

  122. Struth says:

    And I’m the conspiracy theorist?!!

  123. Johanna:

    You mean that when tertiary qualifications became commonplace and often valueless, and graduates in gender studies with huge debts didn’t walk into six figure salaries upon graduation, they became disgruntled?
    Well, who’da thunk it.

    …and just you watch – under President Bidet, they will have those huge debts forgiven and paid for by the poor bastards who decided their future didn’t lie in Gender Studies – Macrame and the Third World Patriarchy.
    S.M.O.D. is overdue.

  124. Old Lefty says:

    notafan
    #3728880, posted on January 18, 2021 at 6:46 pm

    It may surprise some that normal people can lead perfectly happy fulfilled lives without sex, virtual or otherwise.

    Not according to the pigswill of Freud, Foucault, RD Laing, Carl Rogers and the Kinseys that reigns supreme on the left these days and, passed through the filter of a claque of carefully selected dissident ‘Catholic’ consultants (Cahill, Wilkinson, Crittenden), shaped the recommendation on celibacy by the Gillard-McClellan sham of a royal commission.

    Anyone with any knowledge of Catholic affairs knows that the abuse problem, while it existed in the 50s, went through the roof when traditional doctrine and morals were replaced with Californian pop psychobabble in the 60s. But McClellan wouldn’t go there, of course, because that would upset his leftist puppeteers.

  125. bespoke says:

    pork bally

    👍 Just put the order in – spuds and a salad

  126. Knuckle Dragger says:

    ‘vendor of fine street food.’

    Well, erm. There have been quite a few fruit bats flying over the top of my open bains marie recently.

    Hence the Friday quickie lunch specials.

  127. Struth says:

    I’m not going back and playing along with this any further, god knows what you’ll do.
    I don’t want “bad news” coming my way.

  128. thefrollickingmole says:

    Talk about whitewashing.

    “1944, the year of the German occupation, was my formative experience. Instead of submitting to our fate we resisted an evil force that was much stronger than we were—yet we prevailed.” —George Soros

    By collaborating.

    And its ensuring its evil will live on.

    In 2017, the Open Society Foundations announced that Soros had transferred $18 billion of his fortune towards funding the future work of the Foundations, bringing his total giving to the Foundations since 1984 to over $32 billion.

    Spent more on “democratic practice” in the USA than anywhere else in the world by at least double.
    https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/what-we-do/themes/democratic-practice

    Open Society-U.S. supports a range of groups working on protecting voting rights, including supporting efforts to promote voting by mail and safe access to the polls during the COVID-19 pandemic, and advocating for minority voters who have been targeted by partisan gerrymandering.

  129. Old Lefty says:

    Dirk Moses is a raving ultra-Marxist loony who thinks Stalin was a namby-pamby bourgeois liberal wimp.

  130. feelthebern says:

    I can’t believe Roger Moore is dead.
    Someone check on Wilford Brimley.

  131. MatrixTransform says:

    Someone check on Wilford Brimley.

    and Johnny Cash

  132. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    Busy at Cafe Bruce today. The head waiter has a new friend. He/she seems to be the kid of the only other Cafe Bruce arm-cocky, who is sadly losing her feathers. Definitely a kid, as the young cocky makes eeee noises, begging for food.

    Then in the morning a new young kooka arrived, so she got some breakfast. Already quite accepting of humans, so must’ve had her own Cafe and waiter this last year. She turned up again at lunchtime, which wasn’t good…because resident Mr Kooka immediately landed next to her and said “goodbye kid”. She left, minus a feather.

    And finally an old friend arrived in the afternoon. Haven’t seen her since September when she decamped to do family stuff. Hooked up with a fine male kooka to the west. Very hungry she was, so I stuffed her full.

    The local kookas have understandably taken the kids far away from the bogan clientelle of the Cafe. I don’t even know if both chicks survived the serial faceplants of day one out of the nest box. But at least one is ok as Mr Kooka has been taking bits of mince off to feed a kiddie a few times each day.

  133. Ed Case says:

    Green got 37 off 90 when he shoulda got runs or got out, he played for his Average.
    At least Wadey got out playing a shot.
    Hazlewood played the best shots of the day, a drive through cover and another from the other end but a bit straighter.
    Poor captaincy by the Longstop,, the rains set in now, which anyone coulda tole him, if he’d bothered to ask.
    240 was more than India could make, yet he threw away the chance of bowling them out tonight.
    Wadey wouldna made that mistake.

  134. notafan says:

    True old Lefty, but celibacy is not just for those in religious vocations.

    BTW I’ve been lurking in Catholic twitter, young woman who was secret Catholic in a m uslim family had outed herself onroute to join a religious order.

    Family organising exorcism with Iman, I didn’t even know they did them.

    Copy cats from Ballarat.

  135. Old Lefty says:

    notafan
    #3728844, posted on January 18, 2021 at 6:18 pm

    Why sook about spinsterhood? It was your choice by the sounds.

    I have several spinster (and bachelor) relatives, none rode that delightful carousel, whether through shyness or just genuine failure to meet the right person, they are single, as have been others in prior generations.

    Getting married isnt a guarantee of happiness either.

    Indeed. But the point of the PC brigades’ advocacy is, yet again (cf. the LGBTQI+ mafia), that breederscum are the lowest form of life.

  136. feelthebern says:

    At the age of 43, Tom Brady is one game away from his 10th Superbowl.

  137. notafan says:

    Just wait until the news about Marilyn Monroe gets out.

  138. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha says:

    I want a tradie with his own business, who owns his home and an investment property and loves surfing and is blond with blue eyes who wants kids, but doesnt have an ex partner with kids etc etc

    It’s quite a few years ago now, but I was told “I want a man who makes good money, owns his own house, and will be a father to my kids, but I’m not taking on another woman’s slops.”

    Indeed.

  139. notafan says:

    Also true Old Lefty.

    I wish they would get sick enough of the rest of us to move to a country of their very own.

  140. Top Ender says:

    Wallopers wallop on…

    Victoria Police says it will uphold any outstanding fines for COVID-19 breaches, declaring its policy remained unchanged for rule-breakers.

    “Since the outset fines are issued to people who blatantly and deliberately breach the Chief Health Officer’s directions and put fellow Victorian at risk,” Victoria Police deputy commissioner Rick Nugent said at a press conference on Monday.

    Mr Nugent blamed a “poorly worded” internal guidance note that gave the impression that COVID rule-breakers could escape unpaid fines.

    “A guide was prepared for prosecutors and police with respect to prosecuting fines,” he said. “In hindsight, that document was poorly worded and doesn’t appropriately articulate the process for fines and warnings.

    He acknowledged there had been “some commentary” regarding its policy for the prosecution of COVID-related fines.

    “I just want to say from the outset Victoria Police has not changed our policy or its policy on the issue of fines.”

    Mr Nugent said while frontline police can “utilise discretion”, he maintained: “Our policy has not shifted. We still continue to give fines for blatant breaches.”

    He confirmed the guidance note would be changed this week.

    More than 30,000 fines have been reviewed, Mr Nugent said, with a “percentage” withdrawn as “they found they weren’t consistent with the (Chief Health Officer’s) directions”.

    “I can say approximately 3000 have been paid,” he said, adding about 5700 had “accepted guilt and are on a payment plan.”

    “We went through a very hard lockdown in this state; we had a second wave that was challenging for everybody,” Mr Nugent said.

    “Our police did an outstanding job in enforcing the public health and wellbeing, and doing all we could to ensure that the virus did not spread further.”

    It comes after Daniel Andrews hinted at his frustration over what was believed to be a police decision not to pursue outstanding fines for breaches of COVID-19 rules.

    Herald-Sun

  141. Boambee John says:

    1735099
    #3728672, posted on January 18, 2021 at 3:53 pm
    The ostrich re-writes history without even reading it first, guaranteed a Piled Higher and Deeper with that research standard.

    I first studied modern history at USQ on a post-Vietnam scholarship (early 70s).

    Wasn’t USQ still the Toowoomba CAE then?

  142. kaysee says:

    Tinta, Megan, Lizzie, vlad and others who have been kind enough to comment that you appreciate my humble offerings of funnies and ponderings ………
    Thanks. ❀‿❀

    Tinta, Megan, in response to your comments:

    The battle the world is facing right now is not Right wing vs Left wing, Republicans vs Democrats, Conservatives vs Progressives, Democracy vs Communism.
    It is between Good vs Evil.

    Trump is not perfect – no human being is. But, he is on the side of good fighting the evil. There are millions of people, not just in the US, but around the world, also on the side of good, who have been praying for a Trump victory.

    In a radio interview recently, Lin Wood urged listeners to pray. He said that they should not just talk to God, but also listen to Him and what He is saying.

    We have in the Bible, several examples, where we are reminded that God will not forsake His people. I do, occasionally, have phases of feeling despair, worry and fear over what is happening now, and will in the future, under the powers of evil. But most of the time, I trust God. I do not know what is His plan, and if there will be a rocky path, for a while. But God is all-powerful and works in mysterious ways.

    Whatever happens, I know that God is listening to His people, and true to His promise, will not abandon them.

    An anchor to hold on to: Isaiah 49.

  143. feelthebern says:

    It’s a hell of thing for Biden not having the Chief Justice swearing him in.
    You have to go back a long, long way for this happening, when you strip out the impromptu swearings in of the VP post the sitting president getting topped or keeling over.

  144. Albatross says:

    Boambee John
    #3728940, posted on January 18, 2021 at 7:19 pm
    1735099
    #3728672, posted on January 18, 2021 at 3:53 pm
    The ostrich re-writes history without even reading it first, guaranteed a Piled Higher and Deeper with that research standard.

    I first studied modern history at USQ on a post-Vietnam scholarship (early 70s).

    Wasn’t USQ still the Toowoomba CAE then?

    Another one of Bob’s verified lies?

  145. thefrollickingmole says:

    It’s a hell of thing for Biden not having the Chief Justice swearing him in.

    Really, whos doing it, the ghost of Karl Marx?

  146. Bruce O’Nekw:

    Plausible though Winston.
    Lefties hate to be told what to do by gravity.

    This is in reference to a rumour that the apple tree which inspired Newtons formation of the Laws of Gravity is to be cut down because White Patriarchy Science.
    What we are looking down the barrel of is a recreation of the Dark Ages which apparently were full of colour and splendid works of art that were destroyed by the Puritans.*
    Perhaps we should send the Elgin Marbles and other works somewhere – perhaps the Muslams? – so safeguard them from the cancel culture barbarians?
    *Fairly sure I’ve stuffed up the history on this one, but the erudite others will correct me?
    Lizzie, I’d value your input here.

  147. Bruce in WA says:

    At a time when conservative governments, the Murdoch press and their corporately funded think-tank supporters run down university departments of history in this country, the need for careful interpretations of the past has never been more evident.

    FMD

  148. Albatross says:

    Imagine quoting that with approval. What a mess. Menzies sure did a number on old Bob.

  149. thefrollickingmole says:

    Dark Ages which apparently were full of colour and splendid works of art that were destroyed by the Puritans.

    In Byzantium it was Iconoclasm.
    https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/medieval-world/byzantine1/beginners-guide-byzantine/a/iconoclastic-controversies

  150. Ed Case says:

    The Elgin Marbles are an huge collection of statues and ancient stuff that was compiled by Lord Elgin while Greece was in turmoil, packed onto ships, and sent to Blighty.
    It is theft, the British Government ought to restore it to the rightful owners.

  151. feelthebern says:

    Whoops.
    I retract that.
    Roberts is swearing in Biden.
    Sotomayor is doing Harris.

    As per convention.

  152. Albatross says:

    Ed Case
    #3728952, posted on January 18, 2021 at 7:29 pm
    […]
    It is theft, the British Government ought to restore it to the rightful owners.

    And here I was thinking you didn’t have any more credibility to lose.

  153. bespoke says:

    Lin Wood

    Seriously!

  154. Nick says:

    What are you trolling for Septimus ?

  155. notafan says:

    The Elgin Marbles had been left lying around for a long time before Lord Elgin gathered them up and preserved them.

  156. feelthebern says:

    Sotomayor would rank #9 on the intellect list.
    If you watched all the current justices hearings, Sotomayor was given the easiest run of all.
    The “Wise Latina”.
    FMD.

  157. Mater says:

    darling Downs institute of advanced education in the 1970s

    Becomes:

    UCSQ – University College of Southern Queensland – 1990
    USQ – University of Southern Queensland- 1992

  158. Albatross says:

    Mater
    #3728964, posted on January 18, 2021 at 7:35 pm
    darling Downs institute of advanced education in the 1970s

    Becomes:

    UCSQ – University College of Southern Queensland – 1990
    USQ – University of Southern Queensland- 1992

    Kek. Another of Bob’s porkies.

  159. 1735099 says:

    Wasn’t USQ still the Toowoomba CAE then?

    Yep – DDCAE.
    I meant U of Q.

    My excuse is four different institutions over the years – hard to keep track.
    In sequence – U of Q (71/80); Griffith (76/77); JCU (90/91) and now USQ.

  160. thefrollickingmole says:

    Ed puts on its clown shoes and honklers across the floor.

  161. bespoke says:

    Hi none.

  162. kaysee says:

    calli
    #3728194, posted on January 18, 2021 at 8:55 am

    Okay. Watching Seven Sunrise this morning – all on board with Gladys’ no jab no service idea, extended to no jab no job.

    Regarding the Norway deaths following the Pfizer vaccine, it is being played down as elderly, frail people with other medical conditions.

    What about people who have allergies and suffer from anaphylaxis? These could be young people who lead productive lives and manage their allergies with precautions. There are also those with immune-compromised systems in the workforce, or those unable to work due to serious medical conditions and are therefore on disability pensions. Those who suffer from auto-immune conditions. Medical conditions of unknown origins.

    If the pharmas are not accountable, will the governments assume responsibility for serious side-effects? Or the employer? Or the airline? Or whoever insists that the jab is a condition of entry to wherever?

  163. Ed Case says:

    ***The Elgin Marbles had been left lying around for a long time before Lord Elgin gathered them up and preserved them.***
    That’s right the Marbles were lying on the same spot they’d stood for Millenia.
    It’s called National Heritage in England. Find a Roman coin in the backyard, and it’s not finders keepers, it’s hand it over to some Toff, probably Sir Paddy O’Elgin.
    Try to imagine some scumbag trawling thru an old cemetery with his lackeys, taking away every headstone that had fallen over, and you’ll grasp the essential character of Lord Elgin.

  164. feelthebern says:

    California has just pulled a batch of the Moderna vaccine (330,000 doses),
    6 health care workers have had adverse reactions.

  165. Albatross says:

    “I don’t ever like to force anybody to do anything, but there should be incentives in place for people to do certain things,” she told 2GB on Monday.

    “It’s for their own safety and the safety of others and their conversations that will be had. The more people that are vaccinated, the greater the likelihood that we can have a return to normality as we know it.”

    Now tell me again how Berjelkian is the best of all, Welshman…

  166. Ed Case says:

    ***Sotomayor is doing Harris.***
    Look, I wouldnae be at all surprised, but -phrasing, dude?

  167. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    At the age of 43, Tom Brady is one game away from his 10th Superbowl.

    With the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, who have been cellar dwellers for the last decade.
    Shows what a single exceptional guy can do.
    The Left hates him.

    Daniel Radcliffe puts Tom Brady on blast over MAGA hat (Jan 2019)

  168. notafan says:

    With permission of the graveyards owners at the time I think.

  169. bespoke says:

    Mr Daubney said anyone finding an object believed to be more than 300 years old and containing precious metal must declare it.

    However, he said landowners and finders would normally be compensated if a museum wanted to purchase the treasure.

  170. feelthebern says:

    Tom Brady’s pliability methods have been adopted globally.
    Has revolutionised sports science.

  171. Rex Anger says:

    @ Mole-
    Ed puts on its clown shoes and honklers across the floor.

    Musical accompaniement:

    https://m.soundcloud.com/doctor_jekyll/dueling-clowns-feat-mime-konis-hupen-remix

    (The challenge is to identify where the mime comes in… 😉 )

  172. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    It’s called National Heritage in England. Find a Roman coin in the backyard, and it’s not finders keepers, it’s hand it over to some Toff, probably Sir Paddy O’Elgin.

    Pigs can sometimes fly.

    Antiques Roadshow guest speechless over huge valuation of Roman Boar found in garden (17 Jan)

    For the latest instalment of the Antiques Roadshow, the BBC headed off to Christchurch Mansion where John Foster was presented with a small Bronze figure. The expert was thrilled to be given the chance to valuate the Bronze Boar but warned it needed to be verified to ensure it was Roman after the guest revealed they had dug it up in their garden.

    John explained: “This looks to be Roman. First, second century AD if that were right and that would fit in with this area.”

    The guest explained they were from Cambridge with John noting Roman settlements would have been near by.

    “Looking at it overall, I mean it is a pig cast in bronze, the only issue I’d have with it is this green colour, it’s slightly off, it should be even overall,” John continued.

    “But the detailing the face, the eyes, the tusks, it’s almost too good to be true.

    “I think at auction, in the region of £10,000.”

    Actually in Britain the government is very fair indeed. If you find a hoard on a farmer’s land you and the farmer split the value of the hoard, which is often millions of pounds worth. And the loot goes to a museum where we the public can go and see it. Which is why the British Museum is like a cross between an art gallery and Fort Knox. Never have I seen so much bling in one place.

  173. Old Lefty says:

    … and Iconoclasm in Byzantium may have been, some scholars think, due to the leakage of Muesli doctrines into the Byzantine army.

  174. kaysee says:

    This is from Twitter and there are some links to articles:

    1/Biden’s transition team has revealed there is a very real fear that members of the national guard who support President Trump might kill Biden during the inauguration so they’ve asked commanders to confiscate all ammo and magazines from the soldiers.

    2/ Biden’s transition team asked if it would be possible to determine which soldiers voted in GOP primaries or who have contributed to GOP candidates so commanders could station them away from the president-elect. The request was refused fueling their fear of attack.

    3/ When I was in the Marines we were called to LA for the riots. We couldn’t carry ammo. All we had were empty M16-A2s and our humvees.

    4/ Biden’s fears started with his Secret Service detail, he had every agent on the White House detailed demoted as he worried about their loyalty to Trump. Democrats think that anyone who supports Trump is a very real threat.

    5/ Even @SpeakerPelosi
    is fomenting fear by falsely claiming Republican members of Congress are planning to bring guns to the inauguration to intimidate and threaten the president-elect.

    6/ The Army has confirmed they’ve acquiesced to Biden’s demand for security screening for National Guard members who support President Trump.

    7/ Even the AP is reporting that there is a purge of Republican soldiers from the military underway to placate president-elect Biden.

    8/ The FBI has taken over vetting of the 25,000 troops. Any soldiers who believe there was election fraud are being referred for disciplinary action and removed from the Capitol.

  175. Old Lefty says:

    We have a ‘correction’: Victorian fines will be enforced. Will those who don’t pay be fitted up on historical abuse charges?

    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-18/victorian-covid-fines-to-remain/13067454

  176. Geriatric Mayfly says:

    I got left over slow cooked pork belly from yesterday, with roasted spuds and a salad

    Had to do a quickie the other night. Straight onto the net with Garlic and Chilli Prawns. The TASTE site comes up first, and its procedures are usually uncomplicated and the results more than satisfying. Except, I tripled the garlic and doubled the little chopped chilis. Much better than my old recipe, which has long been in the memory bank. Bookmarked.

  177. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    And boars are not boring.

    Cave painting of a wild pig might be oldest art found in the world (17 Jan)

    A wild pig painted on the wall of an island cave 45,000 years ago might be the oldest figurative artwork ever seen, The New York Times reported on Saturday, citing a study published in Science Advances this month.

    Discovered on the Indonesian island of Sulawesi, the Leang Tedongnge limestone cave-art depicts three Sulawesi warty pigs painted in red ochre – two of them appear to be fighting while the other looks on. While the fight scene survived poorly, the third animal is in nearly pristine condition. The authors of the scientific article claim that “to our knowledge, the animal paintings from Leang Tedongnge is the earliest known representational work of art in the world.”

    It’s a fine painting, although being in Indonesia I suspect it may not be long for this world.

  178. Top Ender says:

    If the Elgin Marbles had been left to to the Greeks they’d have flogged them off in a garage sale.

  179. Terry Pedersen says:

    It’s a hell of thing for Biden not having the Chief Justice swearing him in.

    You’re going to cry, aren’t you? When Joe Biden repeats after Chief Justice Roberts “I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States” you’ll be reduced to a blubbering mess.

    No comfort for you, but Joe Biden will be an excellent President. And he will not pardon the soon to be ex-President who will never again hold political office.

  180. 132andBush says:

    I can’t believe Roger Moore is dead.
    Someone check on Wilford Brimley.

    The lack of the most basic “common knowledge “ at this site is becoming disturbing.

  181. Struth says:

    No comfort for you, but Joe Biden will be an excellent President. And he will not pardon the soon to be ex-President who will never again hold political office.

    No matter how people vote……………………………..

  182. Geriatric Mayfly says:

    Biden’s fears started with his Secret Service detail,
    It’s bound to get worse the closer the Grim Reaper gets to the old coot. Stalin would not work in a room if the hems of the curtains were not raised well above floor level.
    POLONIUS
    (from behind the arras) What, ho? Help, help, help!
    HAMLET
    How now, a rat? Dead for a ducat, dead!

  183. Ed Case says:

    Lord Elgin bought 2 shiploads of priceless artefacts off some Greek peasants who had no idea what they were, in 1819, so it’s okay?
    Let’s say old George Soros buy those rocks lying all over the place at Stonehenge for a song from some English yokel?
    Is that hunky dory?

  184. Pedro the Loafer says:

    Anybody who digs up anything resembling an ancient artefact of any description in Oz would be well advised to either re-bury it or toss it in the tip.

    Either the .gov or the Usual Suspects will be after it like a seagull on a hot chip, usually squawking louder than a hungry seagull.

    Your compo will be nil and you more than likely be hit with enormous legal bills as well.

  185. Rex Anger says:

    Lord Elgin bought 2 shiploads of priceless artefacts off some Greek peasants who had no idea what they were, in 1819, so it’s okay?
    Let’s say old George Soros buy those rocks lying all over the place at Stonehenge for a song from some English yokel?
    Is that hunky dory?

    Grigory now proclaims his hatred of rocks?

    Why? Isn’t his head already full of them?

    You Lithophobic bastard, you…

  186. MatrixTransform says:

    Cave painting of a wild pig might be oldest art found in the world (17 Jan)

    oldest recipe book evah … predates the internet and the written word

  187. Leigh Lowe says:

    thefrollickingmole

    #3728946, posted on January 18, 2021 at 7:23 pm

    It’s a hell of thing for Biden not having the Chief Justice swearing him in.

    Really, whos doing it, the ghost of Karl Marx?

    He will crown himself, Napoleon style.

  188. MatrixTransform says:

    the Greeks they’d have flogged them off in a garage sale

    or hung them from the rear view mirror

  189. Rex Anger says:

    No comfort for you, but Joe Biden will be an excellent President

    Righto Grigory…

  190. Carpe Jugulum says:

    but Joe Biden will be an excellent President.

    AAAAAaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Champagne Comedy

  191. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    Lord Elgin bought 2 shiploads of priceless artefacts off some Greek peasants who had no idea what they were, in 1819, so it’s okay?

    Which the Turks blew up 132 years before.
    Memo to sultans, don’t store your ammo inside priceless pieces of art.

  192. Struth says:

    No comfort for you, but Joe Biden will be an excellent President

    You and Xi, think exactly the same thing.

  193. Pedro the Loafer says:

    Cave painting of a wild pig might be oldest art found in the world (17 Jan)

    Only 45,000 years? Amateurs.

    Pffft. Our lot have been daubing on the ricks since “the beginning of time”.

    (It was on the telly, so it must be true).

  194. Geriatric Mayfly says:

    Anybody who digs up anything resembling an ancient artefact of any description in Oz

    You may get away with rusty old bottle tops. But any of those instruments at the back of the cave, used to plot the stars, avert thine eyes.

  195. Dr Faustus says:

    …and just you watch – under President Bidet, they will have those huge debts forgiven and paid for by the poor bastards who decided their future didn’t lie in Gender Studies – Macrame and the Third World Patriarchy.

    That was vote-for-me burley designed to keep the Democrat Loony-Left in check.
    But, now he’s got the keys, it looks like that might not be, you know, the thing.

    The Bidency: deceitful since 2021.

  196. Eyrie says:

    7/ Even the AP is reporting that there is a purge of Republican soldiers from the military underway to placate president-elect Biden.

    8/ The FBI has taken over vetting of the 25,000 troops. Any soldiers who believe there was election fraud are being referred for disciplinary action and removed from the Capitol

    They can form the core of the Constitutionalist Army.

  197. Rockdoctor says:

    Pedro you would have heard the urban myths about artifacts and sites being bulldozed before anyone found out about them. I would guess that in some cases there may be some truth to it. Some of the old cockys I have met know their land that well that they know where the sites are that have been long forgotten by the younger fellas.

  198. Runnybum says:

    A lot of talk by biggles & mini me today about cunnilingus, boy are you two going to get a shock on your wedding night.

  199. Ed Case says:

    Well, Trump didn’t Build The Wall, though he did build 50 mile of chain link fence which is now likely obliterated by Sears Roebuck boltcutters.
    But, let’s look on the bright side.
    Trump is a legend in Africa for pumping Aid money into Gay Rights groups.
    He’s kept the War to allow Teenage Afghan girls to go to High School going 19 years, and he’s funding Tranny Story Hour in Pakistan.

  200. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    Greeks being Greeks would’ve sold the marbles for lime production, if they couldn’t get a better price from gullible British lords.

    The Case of the Cat Mummies That Became Fertilizer (2015)

    An Egyptologist named William Martin Conway was able to visit the site and wrote about the ongoing plundering. The stench was enormous, he said, and the site became littered with bits of mummy cloth, bones, and fur. Children collected some of the more attractive mummies and sold them to tourists. Some of the bones were used as tooth powder.

    But most of these mummies, at least 19 tons of them, were shipped to Liverpool, England, where they were ground up and sold as fertilizer. They fetched a price of four British pounds a ton, or nearly $11,000 total in today’s money

    One man’s priceless treasure is another man’s blood and bone.

  201. Albatross says:

    Ed Case
    #3729016, posted on January 18, 2021 at 8:10 pm
    Lord Elgin bought 2 shiploads of priceless artefacts off some Greek peasants who had no idea what they were, in 1819, so it’s okay?

    Go fuck a Souvlaki, Eduardos.

  202. Nick says:

    So Runnybum, why have you and Struth fallen out over that? I’m guessing you’re the taker.

  203. Rex Anger says:

    They can form the core of the Constitutionalist Army.

    You mean the United States Armed Forces, right?

    If the Democrat leftwits in their sudden bout of Separatist fervour can somehow find enough True Believers to form a Guards Regiment (let alone a Brigade or Division from among all 5 Services, or at least enough bodies below the rank of Colonel), then maybe they can call themselves the American Peoples’ Protection and Liberation Elite Services. And they can call their troops iSoldiers.

    Then they can get done by Apple for trademark infringement… 😁

  204. Rex Anger says:

    Well, Trump didn’t Build The Wall, though he did build 50 mile of chain link fence which is now likely obliterated by Sears Roebuck boltcutters.
    But, let’s look on the bright side.
    Trump is a legend in Africa for pumping Aid money into Gay Rights groups.
    He’s kept the War to allow Teenage Afghan girls to go to High School going 19 years, and he’s funding Tranny Story Hour in Pakistan.

    Whatever Grigory.

    You know as well as we do, it might be his signature on the paperwork but it was not his doing.

    Leave the political wrongology in the pockets of your Terry and Flatus skinsuits.

    You’re much more entertaining as a neurotic ‘alternativist.’

    In fact, Grigory, you’re so entertaining in this guise you should retire the other two permanently, and just stick to generalised neurotic wrongology. It’s your talent…

  205. Rockdoctor says:

    Oi! Whose engaging in Lithophobia. We all have our “faults”…

  206. Leigh Lowe says:

    Ed Case

    #3728922, posted on January 18, 2021 at 7:08 pm

    Green got 37 off 90 when he shoulda got runs or got out, he played for his Average.
    At least Wadey got out playing a shot.

    Oh, Jesus wept.
    Playing a shot?
    A shit shot it must be said.
    FMD.
    Did you have a look at the field they set for him?
    It screamed “short one at his hip looking for a lazy flick to leg”.
    Three balls in and he obliges.
    That ball asked for two things that early in his innings … a leave or a full blooded pull/hook. The glance flick shot is fraught with danger after having seen two balls.
    As I said, I had a lot of time for Wade, but time is up.

  207. 132and Bush:

    A Bidency is going to lead to the US no longer being oil self sufficient.
    Anyone care to opine?

    Already done so, 132…
    Just spent twenty minutes scrollin back but couldn’t find my thoughts.

    The XL pipeline will be cancelled and shale oil production will be curtailed by whatever means necessary to induce Middle Eastern oil dependency.
    This will have two reasons:
    1. It will embroil the US in more pointless ME wars which will sap any chance of growth out of the US economy.*
    2. The arms industry will boom – ha ha I made a joke.
    3. The US will bring back a national draft to keep the masses quiet, and give the unemployed young men a chance at glory fighting the new enemy of the people. Unfortunately this will enrage the anti war movement.**
    4. Inflation will go through the roof as the effects of Q.E. roll through the economy.***
    5. Taxes will go down. Ha ha! got you again! Taxes will go up except for the Billionaires. Those who have a net worth of $100 million will find themselves inflated into homeless camps. Do you really think having that amount of assets will save you? **** It wasn’t the homeless taking flying lessons out of the New York skyscrapers in 1929.
    6. Never, ever forget Lenins words “We will grind the bourgoisie between the twin mills of inflation and taxation”.
    *Growth will no longer be a requirement in US production – distribution of that wealth is the priority.
    **The ones left alive after the purge which always happens after a Socialist victory.
    *** Quantitative Easing will be shown as the money printing exercise it always was.
    ****Reminds me of the story about Packer in the Casino when he asked one of the ladies there “Why is everyone making a fuss over that bloke?”
    “Oh he’s a Texas Real Estate millionaire. Said to be worth forty million dollars.”
    Whereupon Frank Packer walks up to him and offers to toss a coin – “double or nothing.”

    So that’s my thoughts on the XL pipeline.

  208. kaysee says:

    Mother Who Let Toddler Decide Their Own Gender States She’s Been Accused Of Child Abuse

    A mother of a 4-year-old child who refuses to disclose whether the child is a biological boy or girl and claims she let the child decide their own gender has stated that she has been accused of child abuse.

    The mother, Kyl Myers, Ph.D., a native of Utah who moved to Australia, wrote in MamaMia, “I’ve received hundreds of messages and comments on Instagram and e-mails from people I don’t know, telling me my child should be taken away from me.”

    “My partner, Brent, and I do something called ‘gender creative parenting,’ Myers continued. “For us, this means we didn’t assign a binary girl-or-boy gender to our child, Zoomer, at birth; we don’t disclose Zoomer’s genitals to people who don’t need to know; we used the gender-neutral pronouns they/them/their for Zoomer until they could tell us what pronouns and labels fit best; and Zoomer learns about and explores gender without stereotypical expectations or restrictions. Brent and I are just two among thousands of people doing gender creative parenting all over the world.”

    “I do gender creative parenting for two main reasons. First, I believe gender is up to an individual to determine and does not need to be assigned at birth. I know a lot of people who are intersex, transgender, or non-binary,” she asserted, adding:

    I, myself, am a genderqueer woman who uses they/them and she/her pronouns. While there have always been people whose gender exists beyond the socially constructed binary, in the last decade there has been an exponential rise in awareness, visibility, and affirmation of the gender spectrum. I didn’t want to make assumptions about what my child’s gender identity and interests would be; I wanted to let my kid tell me who they are, instead of the other way around. Secondly, I do gender creative parenting because I don’t want to perpetuate sexist stereotypes and oppression that children are inundated with from birth.

  209. Rex Anger says:

    Oi! Whose engaging in Lithophobia. We all have our “faults”

    Except in Grigory’s case, he tries to fissure…

  210. 132andBush says:

    A lot of talk by biggles & mini me today about cunnilingus, boy are you two going to get a shock on your wedding night.

    Like your husband did?

  211. Runnybum says:

    Mini me, don’t have a go at me, I just want you & biggles to be happy, no surprises thats all.
    Think of me as a marriage guidance counselor.

  212. Leigh Lowe says:

    Runnybum

    #3729038, posted on January 18, 2021 at 8:22 pm

    A lot of talk by biggles & mini me today about cunnilingus, boy are you two going to get a shock on your wedding night.

    Well, it was raised by St Ruth.
    He claimed to have had a disagreement with you over cunninglinguists.
    I have no memory of this but what say you … did you two gave a blue over the licker licence or not?

  213. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    A Bidency is going to lead to the US no longer being oil self sufficient.
    Anyone care to opine?

    Gas will explode.

    From The Geek in Pictures: Pre-Crash Edition | Power Line (17 Jan)

  214. MatrixTransform says:

    We all have our “faults”…

    bull schist … not Numpty

  215. Snoopy says:

    news.com.au

    Spare a thought for Probationary Constable Xrystal Snodgrass whose promising future in VicPol’s enforcement policy unit has been cut short.

    Victoria Police says it will uphold any outstanding fines for COVID-19 breaches, declaring its policy remained unchanged for rule-breakers.

    “Since the outset fines are issued to people who blatantly and deliberately breach the Chief Health Officer’s directions and put fellow Victorian at risk,” Victoria Police deputy commissioner Rick Nugent said at a press conference on Monday.

    Mr Nugent blamed a “poorly worded” internal guidance note that gave the impression that COVID rule-breakers could escape unpaid fines.

    It comes after Daniel Andrews hinted at his frustration over what was believed to a police decision not to pursue outstanding fines for breaches of COVID-19 rules.

    Andrews was rabbiting on at his presser how VicPol decisions about enforcement were, as appropriate, independent.

  216. Matrix Transform:

    St Ruth’s point I think is that yr getting fucked and that for the most part, yous wouldn’t know a train was up ya until the people got out
    I think I’ll have another gin

    Now that was funny – first Lolo’theday.

  217. MatrixTransform says:

    cheers Agent Smith
    You make me chuckle too

  218. Leigh Lowe says:

    Knuckle Dragger

    #3728898, posted on January 18, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    ‘But Faulty is gone and NFA looks to be on probation.’

    I still reckon there’s been a Yoko Ono moment in there somewhere.

    Ooooh.
    Don’t go there.
    🐅😪🚑🏥

  219. feelthebern says:

    I’ve started watching Brooklyn Nine Nine.
    It’s live action Family Guy & Archer combined.
    Quality.

  220. Leigh Lowe says:

    Runnybum

    #3729073, posted on January 18, 2021 at 8:35 pm

    Mini me, don’t have a go at me, I just want you & biggles to be happy, no surprises thats all.
    Think of me as a marriage guidance counselor.

    Not holding the green banana you’re not.

  221. TFM:

    Apparently this prize couldnt find anyone to match with.
    spoiler (that she considered worthy according to hollywood standards)

    Damn that “Daddies Princess” meme.
    It certainly sucked in quite a lot of gullible gullibles.

  222. feelthebern says:

    I can’t keep up with all the nick names.

  223. notafan says:

    B99 is a family favourite.

  224. Leigh Lowe says:

    feelthebern

    #3729087, posted on January 18, 2021 at 8:41 pm

    I’ve started watching Brooklyn Nine Nine.
    It’s live action Family Guy & Archer combined.
    Quality.

    It is somewhat silly.
    Someone mentioned doing Curb Your Enthusiasm in small doses.
    I would recommend the same with Brooklyn Nine Nine.

  225. feelthebern says:

    I’ve caught the odd episode, but now watching from the start on Netflix.
    Terry Crews is hilarious.

  226. 132andBush says:

    Winston,
    If the Bidency kills off US self sufficiency in oil, leading inevitably to an increase in the barrel price, Vlad Putin will be rejoicing. Russian wells become more profitable.

    Limited knowledge here but it’s a logical conclusion.

  227. Megan says:

    MatrixTransform
    #3729076, posted on January 18, 2021 at 8:36 pm
    We all have our “faults”…

    bull schist … not Numpty

    He is a volcanic fissure that could provide the renewables for a fleet of hot air balloons.

  228. feelthebern says:

    Curb is spectacular.
    B-99 is bite sized chuckles.

  229. Runnybum says:

    Biggles, I don’t recall having a disagreement with Struth on any subject, I admire his attempt to educate the numpty club, no matter how difficult.
    But lately I have seen the errors of my ways & am just trying to help you & mini me have a long & wonderful relationship together.

  230. Geriatric Mayfly says:

    “My partner, Brent, and I do something called ‘gender creative parenting,’

    Peak Stupidity has become an ever receding mirage. Once a challenge, but now beyond the grasp of idiots like this. Others will be lured only to fail.

  231. Leigh Lowe says:

    “My partner, Brent, and I do something called ‘gender creative parenting,’

    Brent and I.
    A pair of solutions in search of a problem.

  232. Leigh Lowe says:

    feelthebern

    #3729095, posted on January 18, 2021 at 8:44 pm

    I’ve caught the odd episode, but now watching from the start on Netflix.
    Terry Crews is hilarious.

    The whole cast is very good.
    Reminds me of the original British “The Office” in terms of depth and strength of casting.
    Someone also mentioned Arrested Development here the other day.
    It is A Grade stuff.
    US television serves up tonnes of dross, but there are a few diamonds in there.

  233. Boambee John:

    Wasn’t USQ still the Toowoomba CAE then?

    Rowrr! fsssst!
    *snork*
    (Hope to be down in NSW within the next couple of months – hope you’re still around for a drink or two.)

  234. Tintarella di Luna says:

    bespoke
    #3728076, posted on January 18, 2021 at 4:56 am

    . Thank you bespoke for the link to Joseph Epstein’s response to the tolerance of the credentialled– good to read writing of such clarity.

  235. Pedro the Loafer says:

    I have been on mineral exploration operations that have discovered genuine sacred sites in remote areas which have been verified by local aboriginal elders.
    These sites have been respected, recorded and declared off limits to any further prospecting or mining.

    For every one of these genuine sacred sites, there have been dozens that have are either spurious claims or outright bullshit by money hungry opportunists with little or no connection to the site.

    I have absolutely no trust in so called “anthropologists”, they see what they want to see. “Ancient grain grinding implements” look like a handful of gravel to any sane person.

    If I sound a little bitter over this, you would be on the mark. Over the years I have been dudded out of a very large sum of money by these grifters in legal fees, lost production and wasted and unpaid time.

  236. Peter Greagg says:

    feelthebern
    #3728943, posted on January 18, 2021 at 7:21 pm
    It’s a hell of thing for Biden not having the Chief Justice swearing him in.
    You have to go back a long, long way for this happening, when you strip out the impromptu swearings in of the VP post the sitting president getting topped or keeling over.

    Interesting.
    Do you have a source?

  237. kaysee:

    An anchor to hold on to: Isaiah 49.

    Hopefully there’s a good word for those who would like to believe, but whose human frailties deny them the opportunity.
    Just a crumb would be nice…

  238. MatrixTransform says:

    A pair of solutions in search of a problem.

    think of the kids, isn’t the product of two binomials a trinomial?

  239. WX says:

    Huh.
    Drug cartels can infiltrate their opponents (not recent news, I know) and maintain intelligence networks.
    But conservatives can’t.
    Huh.

    Oh. Trigger warning. Super graphic photo at the link (if it passes).

  240. Boambee John says:

    1735099
    #3728969, posted on January 18, 2021 at 7:37 pm
    Wasn’t USQ still the Toowoomba CAE then?

    Yep – DDCAE.
    I meant U of Q.

    My excuse is four different institutions over the years – hard to keep track.

    Very sloppy. Didn’t you know where you lived?

  241. Siltstone says:

    Pedro @ 8:55
    What you say rings true.

  242. TFM:

    Ed puts on its clown shoes and honklers across the floor.

    Thanks for the new avatar!

  243. Leigh Lowe says:

    I have absolutely no trust in so called “anthropologists”, they see what they want to see. “Ancient grain grinding implements” look like a handful of gravel to any sane person.

    Middens.
    Or, as they are more correctly described, “rubbish tips”.
    By all means study them to garner historical knowledge of diet and cooking techniques.
    But, FFS, they are not ‘sacred sites’.
    I think even true indigenous people would think that was taking the piss.

  244. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    matt damon is in AUS!

    Be afraid. Be very afraid.

    Mark Wahlberg Joins The List Of Hollywood Stars Moving Down Under (9 Jan)

    Why Are Hollywood Stars Moving To Australia!? (11 Jan)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJUOxE0AfKw

  245. Rockdoctor says:

    I have absolutely no trust in so called “anthropologists”, they see what they want to see. “Ancient grain grinding implements” look like a handful of gravel to any sane person.

    In my experience the lowly cultural heritage surveyor is usually pretty reasonable, especially if you talk footy with them. I know of a few genuine sites round Moranbah, even if we could have drilled there (In most cases not) we wouldn’t have anyway. Quite a few drillers offsiders usually have heritage.

    White anthropologists with a chip on their shoulder and wannabe honourary member of insert name tribe attitude, agree. Ditto Enviro surveys types, young white females usually most zealous.

  246. Geriatric Mayfly says:

    For every one of these genuine sacred sites, there have been dozens that have are either spurious claims or outright bullshit by money hungry opportunists with little or no connection to the site.

    A pipe welder told me while on a job beyond Bumfuck, that they moved the Atcos to a site which seemed ‘innocent’ enough. Bad luck sacred site. “So where can we put them,” was the next question.
    “Everywhere here a sacred site boss,” was the reply. You can guess the rest.

Comments are closed.