Australians will be among the first to get a vaccine …

Well … one Australian anyway.

I have two minds on this sort of thing – I’m always happy to see medical experiments being conducted on politicians. But, on the other hand, is this queue jumping?

More seriously, I’m seeing a lot of anti-vaxxer arguments in the threads. Seriously people – get vaccinated. The government has already tagged you through the chemicals they put in the water and spread through chemtrails.

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356 Responses to Australians will be among the first to get a vaccine …

  1. Struth says:

    because unvaccinated COVID sufferers will be an unwarranted burden on the health system and anti-vaxxers should have to pay their way given they are being deliberately stupid about it.

    So as a private sector taxpayer who paid for the health system, should public servants and welfare recipients who haven’t paid for the health system be prevented from using it, or made to pay at least what I have paid into it?

  2. Boambee John says:

    m0nty
    #3763783, posted on February 22, 2021 at 11:11 am
    Same for gay men with AIDS? And fat people with diabetes.

    No. Don’t be stupid.

    Translation: Gay men with AIDS are PC protected, and even though obesity is a cause of massive costs to the health system, munty needs to receive his Medicare benefits.

  3. twostix says:

    BEING VACCINATED DOESN’T STOP YOU FROM CARRYING OR SPREADING THE VIRUS.

    Struth he fully admits this.

    He’s literally got three totally contradictory narratives going on this one page depending on who he’s talking to (number one being his compassion as he simultaneously talks about ‘discarding’ people and banning people from getting treatment in hospital if he ‘the herd’ (I.e him and dan andrews) don’t personally like them).

  4. mh says:

    Monty

    Again, 26, given that vaccination doesn’t prevent infectiousness, whether any of you get vaccinated doesn’t affect my health in the slightest.

    Just to confirm: These are not herd immunity vaccines?

  5. m0nty says:

    Mater, I don’t think the domestic restrictions will be applied anyway. It’s a good argument you make, and it will probably prevail.

    The main reason I am pushing back on this one is that anti-vaxxers are just so aggressively and militantly stupid. I don’t want the Cat to be infected with anti-vaxxism because it removes the challenge of commenting here. Don’t become so boringly foolish, Cats! Retain at least a few brain cells to rub together, it’s more fun that way.

  6. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Fatboy

    There is reason to be a little apprehensive about these new vaxes and I’m someone who’s getting jabbed – albeit hesitantly. If other people aren’t then it’s their decision. We don’t stop you from eating 36 dounts a day, which is a known killer, so stop accusing people of robbing you of your life if they get vaxed.

    Well said, JC.

    Herd immunity is greatly assisted by vaccination. It stops individuals from dying and reduces viral load and thus viral transfer. As Calli rightly points out, treatments can do that too. Personally though I’d prefer to be able to fight something off long term rather than have to rely on the availability and efficacy of treatments when it has got hold of me.

    As for travel, and taking one for the libertarian team. Get back to me when you will be eighty later next year as I will be. I do not have the ultimate luxury, which is time. Let me do a Greta here: how dare you. How dare you tell me to stay home and be a granny when I have other plans. The vaccine makes travel far more possible in personal protective and herd immunity terms at home and at any destination. End of story as far as I am concerned.

  7. Stan says:

    Gee this thread went downhill once m0nty jumped in. Please do not feed the troll.

  8. m0nty says:

    BTW 26 I never mentioned discard, I used the phrase “the outcast you have deliberately labelled yourself as”. Please don’t put discard in quotes as if I said it.

  9. Figures says:

    Same for gay men with AIDS? And fat people with diabetes.

    Not your fault I know twostix but why on earth didn’t everybody on the Right realise this 8 years ago when this horrible government introduced No Jab No Pay?

  10. Mater says:

    Mater, I don’t think the domestic restrictions will be applied anyway. It’s a good argument you make, and it will probably prevail.

    Thank you, Monty.
    Frankly, I didn’t expect such a considered response, but I am pleasantly surprised.
    You have just gone up in my estimation.

  11. m0nty says:

    Just to confirm: These are not herd immunity vaccines?

    Herd immunity comes from everyone being vaccinated or having caught it in the wild. If you have not had it, you are not immune.

  12. mh says:

    Lizzie and Monty have polar opposite views here regarding herd immunity.

  13. mh says:

    vaccination doesn’t prevent infectiousness, whether any of you get vaccinated doesn’t affect my health in the slightest.

    Then

    Herd immunity comes from everyone being vaccinated

  14. Joanna Smythe says:

    Gladys says the vaccine lowers symptoms. If 99% of people already don’t know they have Covid or have very mild symptoms why would you stick an unknown, untested vaccine into your body when the vast majority are not ill in the first place. The lefties argument is caring for your fellow man. Well if the vaccine doesn’t stop you carrying or spreading the virus, WTF is the point.

  15. H B Bear says:

    Gee this thread went downhill once m0nty jumped in. Please do not feed the troll.

    Nothing surer. If only I thought he had the intellect to be doing it deliberately.

  16. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    I don’t want the Cat to be infected with anti-vaxxism

    It’s not, M0nty. Most here are apprehensive about a ‘new’ vaccine and getting knotted knickers in rather a bothersome way. Yes, these vaccines are still contentious but I think they are necessary, and not just in ten years but now. I think that most people here will still vaccinate their children and accept proven vaccines. But discussion like the above could persuade some to go full-on anti-vaxer about all vaccines, and I would not come here if that was the case across the whole site as I am not in favour of deliberately killing children; or adults. Nor of total wacky anti medical science. I am tremendously thankful for modern medicine and dentistry.

  17. m0nty says:

    vaccination doesn’t prevent infectiousness, whether any of you get vaccinated doesn’t affect my health in the slightest.

    Then

    Herd immunity comes from everyone being vaccinated

    That’s right mh. Herd immunity means everyone has the virus in their system already, and they have passed the stage of shedding the virus, so no one gets fresh infections. If I get vaccinated, it doesn’t matter if you are shedding near me as I won’t get sick.

  18. Struth says:

    Bullshit Monty, you are starting to back track from your leftism and it’s sticking out like dogs balls.
    “It’s a good argument you make” but I still can’t bring myself to not make low IQ generalisations of right wingers.

    We are not anti Vaxxers, I certainly am not and am probably more vaccinated than you.
    However, I also drink milk but I don’t drink off milk.
    Not drinking the milk that has gone off does not make me anti dairy.
    And you know that when it comes to vaccines , trying to, again, collectively place people in the looney bin for not following socialist dictat is something that is seen through here at the cat.
    You’ll have better success on twitter. Go peddle your name calling bullshit there.

  19. Boambee John says:

    munty has really gone full on fascist today, both here and on the Clamp Down thread.

  20. Figures says:

    Herd immunity is greatly assisted by vaccination. It stops individuals from dying and reduces viral load and thus viral transfer.

    No it doesn’t. The entire theory of medicine is predicated on the idea that there is essentially perfect fidelity between pathogens and symptoms. That is, that you have (exactly) zero pathogens in your body for a long time and then, you get infected with a few pathogens. Those pathogens replicate and as the number of pathogens in your body increases, you start to get sicker and sicker.

    You then “fight it off” with your immune system and the number of pathogens goes back down to (exactly) zero. And then, you a) have no more symptoms; and b) have an immune ‘memory’ that means you are no longer vulnerable to any future exposure.

    This is the model.

    It does suffer from one slight flaw though.

    Literally every aspect of it is wrong.

    You *don’t* start with zero pathogens in your body – that is a lie. If you tested the world’s population for smallpox, rabies or any other virus you would find them. Just run enough PCR cycles.

    Your symptoms *do not* match the number of pathogens in your body. Of course, we rarely run real time tests for “viral load” but the few times we do anything similar we find minimal (if any) link between increases in virus amounts in the body vs increases in symptoms. And we certainly don’t find an exact match.

    And you do not go back to zero viruses in your body after you have recovered. Think “chronic hepatitis B infection”. Astonishingly, even though immunity means one exposure leads to safety from future exposure, doctors have decided that being exposed to the hep b virus actually leads to vulnerability from future exposure! This is made all the more bizarre because they still think you can get immunity to it (ie from a vaccine).

    Everybody associated with the model (“paradigm” if you like but that annoys people here) is a lunatic.

  21. Joanna Smythe says:

    I’ll answer my own question ‘WTF is the point’. Big Pharma are set to make billions and Governments needed an excuse to get rid of the scamdemic. The vaccine is a perfect excuse.

  22. m0nty says:

    We are not anti Vaxxers, I certainly am not and am probably more vaccinated than you.
    However, I also drink milk but I don’t drink off milk.
    Not drinking the milk that has gone off does not make me anti dairy.

    I don’t call everyone on here stupid, Struth, but for you I can make an exception.

  23. incoherent rambler says:

    I watched a commercial TV news last night. (I feel better already for having confessed)

    The dan-eyed enthusiasm, by news reader and reporter on the spot, for a vax was something to behold.

    The chinaflu and the vax attacks not going to end well.

    Heil Herr Dan.
    Sieg Heil*

    * I will keep you posted whether it is the brown shirts or the black shirts that get me.

  24. Dot says:

    Herd immunity means everyone has the virus in their system already,

    Not really but carry on.

  25. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Herd immunity comes from everyone being vaccinated

    And therefore not shedding massive viral loads from being sick. As I keep on saying, it is an individual thing. It’s somewhat like the argument about ‘the commons’. If everyone is immune or vaccinated then the virus has nowhere to go. But some people want to be free to feed the virus with their own bodies and cop whatever comes from that. That’s up to them. Measles disappears once the measles virus has nowhere to go. Learn from that.

  26. Boambee John says:

    Sorry, the Australians First thread, not the Clamp Down one. Switching between threads too quickly.

  27. Boambee John says:

    Definitely switching too rapidly!

  28. Struth says:

    You need to stand up for what is right Lizzie, and not call those doing so, having their knickers in a twist.
    You won’t be going anywhere anyway, and you’ll be helping them set up their tyranny.
    Sorry to have to break it to you, but someone so interested in history should already see what is going on here.
    You’re denying reality to give you something to look forward to.
    The technicalities of the vaccine are really quite irrelevant.
    The way it’s being introduced and that we are all being held hostage and being told it will free us IF WE ALL GET IT says nothing to you?
    If we all submit to getting checked everywhere to see if we have complied with government dictate?
    And at best it’s a yearly flu that kills the same demographic every year.
    The reasoning given for taking it by government is completely illogical.
    None of this is necessary.
    So that being the case, what do you think is going on here Lizzie?
    I’d be interested in what you think is going on here politically and how that might affect your travel plans?

  29. Diogenes says:

    Going to have to come up with some serious $$ to bribe those doctors though 🙁
    $6k fine if they get caught not reporting all vaccines

    Jo
    the idea is to get them to report it without actually administering the jab, so no fine 😉

  30. m0nty says:

    The line of “I’m not anti-vaxx but I am anti THIS vaxx” reminds me of you lot claiming not to be misogynist but hating every female politician (apart from Thatcher who had no female characteristics at all). Or every non-white politician except those who are dead and that you can pretend were on your side the whole time.

  31. H B Bear says:

    The dan-eyed enthusiasm, by news reader and reporter on the spot, for a vax was something to behold.

    It was a bit over the top. I was waiting for them to get out the champagne and spray it all around, F1 style. The SloMo jab was a nice touch. A prick for a prick.

    Let’s hope it is better than the App.

  32. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Immunology is one of the most complex areas of medicine. Half-baked comments and ‘running enough PCR tests’ and ‘finding’ smallpox etc don’t really stack up with me. I tend to trust the immunologists and virologists more than I trust feelz and instant experts on a blog.

  33. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    The line of “I’m not anti-vaxx but I am anti THIS vaxx” reminds me of you lot claiming not to be misogynist but hating every female politician (apart from Thatcher who had no female characteristics at all).

    Stop moving goalposts, M0nty.

    Anyway, Margaret Thatcher had very nice hairdos and handbags. And a terrific brain.
    Gosh, she would have made utter mincemeat of you. Some things though you can only dream of.

  34. Jo says:

    the idea is to get them to report it without actually administering the jab, so no fine 😉

    Yeah I get that, just wondering how much to put aside, since the potential fine is so high. I’m actually serious about avoiding the “jab”, no idea how I will go about bribing a doctor though! Has it really come to this?

  35. Struth says:

    I must have typed that too fast for you Monty.

  36. old bloke says:

    I saw a cartoon about two monkeys sitting in a tree.

    Monkey 1 asked “have you had your Chinese Virus vaccination yet?”

    Monkey 2 answers “Nah, I’m waiting for the human trials to finish before I take the jab”

    I’m like Monkey 2, I’ll wait a year or so to see if Sinclair develops a second head.

  37. Judge Dredd says:

    This isn’t a vaccine, it’s gene therapy.
    The experimental mRNA gene therapy injections have never been released to use on the mass population ever, until now. This is very new, and calling it a “vaccine” is typical wormtongue speak. It is a “not vaccine”.
    People that are not in a high risk group that take this new mRNA genetic therapy are largely only doing it because an authority figure said to, to avoid social shame, and to keep getting stuff (airline travel, public transport, govt benefits, etc).
    Do not take it – as you may suffer some horrible unintended consequences.

  38. Struth says:

    The line of “I’m not anti-vaxx but I am anti THIS vaxx” reminds me of you lot claiming not to be misogynist but hating every female politician (apart from Thatcher who had no female characteristics at all). Or every non-white politician except those who are dead and that you can pretend were on your side the whole time.

    Translated from lefty speak.
    I have nothing left but calling you all “ists” of some sort.

  39. incoherent rambler says:

    Betty. A leetel knowledge is a dangerous think.

  40. Diogenes says:

    If everyone is immune or vaccinated then the virus has nowhere to go.

    Paraphrasing slightly from my link on the previous page from the horse’s arse himself …
    Reporter : Will the vaccine stop the spread?
    Professor Brendan Murphy: We don’t know….. we hope so.

    First, it was flatten the curve …. then it was the COVID Safe App will allow to resume a normal life, now the vaccine will set us free.

    Fool me once etc

  41. twostix says:

    The line of “I’m not anti-vaxx but I am anti THIS vaxx” reminds me of you lot claiming not to be misogynist but hating every female politician (apart from Thatcher who had no female characteristics at all). Or every non-white politician except those who are dead and that you can pretend were on your side the whole time.

    lol what is this shit.

  42. H B Bear says:

    Translated from lefty speak.
    I have nothing left but calling you all “ists” of some sort.

    Yes, it’s all very predictable. Who will use the “denier” word first?

  43. mh says:

    Lizzie on her March 2020 cruise

    Cleaning was exceptional and I did extra cabin cleaning with my trusty Glen 20 spray and wipes.

    😆

  44. Jo says:

    Judge Dredd
    #3763857, posted on February 22, 2021 at 11:53 am
    This isn’t a vaccine, it’s gene therapy.

    So I’m not an Anti-Vaxxer! I never have been in the past, and been feeling rather uncomfortable at having suddenly become one.

  45. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    I’d be interested in what you think is going on here politically and how that might affect your travel plans?

    Just been speaking to the Looxury Cruise Company direct. They stress their medical-quality air filtration and daily disinfectant ‘fogging’ of all spaces on board, public and private. They are 50% booked already from Australia for next year and into 2023. Vaccine is why, is her view. A lot of well-off oldies do cruises.

    Jo Smythe is correct in saying that it will help ScoMo get out of his ridiculous ‘elimination’ strategy re Covid. A workable vaccine will make the situation very much better for opening up to o/s leisure travel and business travel and some return to normal economic activity. I’d agree with Jo that this would happen even if the vaccine was a simple shot of normal saline; i.e. a placebo. Confidence is all in this field. Without the amazing technological efforts enforced by Covid (think space race spin off quality) I would have suggested a normal saline vaccine – in fact, I did suggest that, earlier this year, to stop the elimination panic. We would have all lost grandma though. Even me. And how would youse all like that with no Lizzie to lambast?

  46. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “So I’m not an Anti-Vaxxer! I never have been in the past, and been feeling rather uncomfortable at having suddenly become one.”

    Agree wholeheartedly Jo.

  47. Jo says:

    Except I just duckduckgo’d the question “is the covid-19 vaccine actually gene therapy”

    Seems like I need my tin foil hat now :/

  48. C.L. says:

    Stop the you-lotting, Monty.

  49. C.L. says:

    Stop the you-lotting, Monty.

  50. Struth says:

    Many people are trying to justify their submission to tyranny by trying to hopelessly argue that they agree with it.
    It’s all for the best.

    Lizzie talks about these genetic modifying untested concoctions developed by a bloody mad man as if they they are the same as Vaccines of the past, and all is just an excuse to justify her willingness to submit to this tyranny because the carrot they dangle she wants so badly.
    Underneath Lizzie knows, she isn’t getting that carrot.
    Not without a fight.
    And so we divide further as we argue amongst ourselves, once friends, socialism divides friends and family, neighbour from neighbour, as it is intended, but that must happen, there is no choice in that.
    Integrity and a sense of duty is found in varying quantities in all of us.
    Clear thinking in times of stress, the effects of hysteria and fear, vary in all of us.
    Then there is the lies and misinformation that one believes and another does not.
    Etc.
    All going to plan, isn’t it?

  51. H B Bear says:

    I don’t pretend to understand the microbiology involved and have no interest (or possibly the requisite background and knowledge) to find out. Despite this, I think Judge Dredd is getting close. There is no analogy with most people’s historical understanding of vaccines.

  52. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “reminds me of you lot claiming not to be misogynist but hating every female politician (apart from Thatcher who had no female characteristics at all)”

    Anyone else note how the fat eunuch sanctimoniously accuses others of misogyny and then in the breath he writes an utterly misogynistic statement about Margaret Thatcher.

    Hypocrite.

  53. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Lizzie on her March 2020 cruise

    Lizzie on her 2016 cruise around the Horn got a terrible, awful, horrible chest infection, went to the doc, and half the ship was there. This was a cruise company that we would not normally travel on, but the dates suited, and I thought the infection control measures were very perfunctory. So I know how to look after myself on cruises; studied infection control once.

    Laugh if you will, but I haven’t had a sniffle on any cruise since. Got a hacking cough in Africa a year later though. Along with the other six participants in the looxury safari. We all cross-infected each other, me first by sitting behind the tour leader who was in full first-sniffle super-infectious mode, having sat next to a man on a plane who she said sneezed all over her two days previously.
    🙂

  54. bollux says:

    To Lizzie especially. Stop calling it a vaccination. It is GENE THERAPY, and has NEVER been tried en masse with humans before. Look up ADE and see what you think. And good luck for the 0.04% who won’t survive the virus, or anything else that comes along.

  55. Figures says:

    I tend to trust the immunologists and virologists more than I trust feelz and instant experts on a blog.

    There is no such thing as expertise without accountability and willingness to explain.

    Virologists and immunologists (and epidemiologists) have never once in history been held to account for anything.

    What’s more these same unaccountable morons refuse to even debate with people like me who question vaccination – no matter how often they are asked.

    The fact is that *I* have more claim to expertise than any of your precious virologists.

  56. Diogenes says:

    They are 50% booked already from Australia for next year and into 2023. Vaccine is why, is her view. A lot of well-off oldies do cruises.

    Lots of cruises are near booked out (price & pent up demand) – vaccine or no.

    I will be booking as soon as ships actually start coming through the Heads, and that is only because the cruise “pauses’ keep getting extended & I have been waiting 6 months for the refund of the last cruise I was supposed to be on. I will reconsider if getting jabbed is a condition (It’s not for Singapore’s cruises to ‘nowhere” that have been running since October.

  57. incoherent rambler says:

    Yer onher,
    C.L. #3762962, posted on February 21, 2021 at 5:00 pm
    Government: the vaccines are 100 percent safe.
    Also government: we’re outlawing legal action against us and the companies if they’re not.

    Dan of the Dead and Scomo think it is a good idea for everyone to get jabbed.

    I rest my case.

  58. H B Bear says:

    “So I’m not an Anti-Vaxxer! I never have been in the past, and been feeling rather uncomfortable at having suddenly become one.”

    When you are being asked to be given an entirely new medicine, brought to market in record time,that promises vast rewards for which ever Big Pharma does so I don’t care what label is put on me. Wear it with pride.

    Next will be the carrot and stick to get you to have it. Be prepared for more stick than carrot.

  59. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Betty. A leetel knowledge is a dangerous think.

    Check back thread and see how many times I have emphasised that point.

    I have no claims to be any expert in vaccine immunology or virology. I’ve followed the Med-Cram lectures on how the mRNA and the chimp adenovirus fragment carrier vaccines work. These videos are readily available to all Cats. Nothing particularly unusual there, just finding a way in to create an immune response barrier to the viral protein probe, as the instructor and better informed people than me clearly state, but others may well disagree. I’ve read a little more in the literature, going to the proper Journals rather than reportage, for reportage is often a total balls up of real studies.

  60. Figures says:

    Lizzie, why don’t you just explain (or get a precious “immunologist” to explain) how you can acquire immunity to hepatitis B (or any virus that infects you on a long term basis)?

    That appears to be impossible. Because it is impossible.

    If being exposed to a virus for a year, decade, lifetime still leaves you vulnerable to said virus how on earth is a vaccine supposed to be of any benefit?

    Just so you know though. I’ve asked hundreds of your precious “experts” this very question and their answer is “duuuuh because SCIENCE!!!”

  61. Struth says:

    Lizzie, my tour company is booked solid for this year.
    I cart rich oldies around as well.
    We’re booked solid from those that could not go last year, and due to no one being able to leave the country as well.
    In fact the tours I operate usually cost a grand a day per person, so we only get the well off.
    I know I am not going to work Lizzie, you know I am not going to work either.
    I was to be doing the Kimberley this year.
    WA!!!

    The bullshit that we have to do if it goes ahead, especially with food service and the interior of vehicles, etc etc etc, means it will be virtually made impossible with regulation even if it does go ahead.
    In other words, even if you get to travel your mind won’t be free of following government dictates for a second.
    And my job has a lot of critical timed flying involved.
    How is that going to pan out over winter?

    Do you think they will not find a new virulent strain this winter?
    Of course they will.
    Dan , Palaschook, McGowan and all supported by Sco Mo?

    If by chance, being rich, you get to go somewhere, you won’t enjoy it, I’ll guarantee you that.

  62. mh says:

    Message to Bill Gates

    I am not an animal! I am a human being. I am a man.

  63. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    The fact is that *I* have more claim to expertise than any of your precious virologists.

    I am not in favour of compulsory vaccination, figures. Stick to your guns if you have strong beliefs.

    I do that with climate change models, where I think I have some small level of expertise in modelling. And I agree that a lot of epidemiologists have hopeless skills in constructing suitable models. As with climate models, it can be garbage in, garbage out, if you have poor parameters and data. It is instructive that Ferguson at Imperial College is also deeply into climate modelling and has been wrong on many medical things, including bovine encephalitis. Nevertheless, although a blunt instrument, good epidemiology can be both informative and life saving.

    With immunology, I leave it to the real experts. These guys are biochemically sophisticated in a way I doubt you or I or most laymen could match.

  64. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    you won’t enjoy it, I’ll guarantee you that

    Oh yes I will. I have the happy facility of being a total Pollyanna when it comes to travel.
    A trip to a cheap motel in Nowra can thrill me even now. 🙂

  65. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Gotta go now. Appointment with Dr. O’Oirish.
    I know he looks forward to my visits. 😀

  66. Jo says:

    H B Bear
    #3763888, posted on February 22, 2021 at 12:18 pm
    Next will be the carrot and stick to get you to have it. Be prepared for more stick than carrot.

    That’s why I want to figure out how to get them to switch for saline instead.

  67. incoherent rambler says:

    Do you think they will not find a new virulent strain this winter?
    Of course they will.

    Which is why it is necessary to make lots of indemnified cash as quickly as possible.
    A good scare doesn’t last forever.

  68. Figures says:

    With immunology, I leave it to the real experts. These guys are biochemically sophisticated in a way I doubt you or I or most laymen could match.

    They have *zero* accountability.

    It doesn’t matter how complex you believe immunology to be if you want to present yourself as an expert you have to be in a position to hurt if and when you get things wrong.

    Even public servants (outside Health Departments) have to be accountable for their mistakes.

    Indeed, in most areas of medicine doctors themselves are accountable. But in the case of vaccines, there is zero accountability. None. From anybody. Not immunologists, not virologists, not epidemiologists, not doctors, not politicians.

    How can you know this fact and still maintain your belief in these clowns?

  69. Megan says:

    Typical that so many here have predictably eccentric views of science and medical expertise

    I’m getting my information on pathogenic priming from reputable research documents and reading the results of the testing of the two biological vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna. I have a medical history that contraindicates having the vaccine when I am already immunocompromised. You’re claiming I should ignore all that and trust the government because it’s here to help me.

    Your faith in the medical profession is cute but misguided. From none other than the Medical Journal of Australia you can find this:

    The Medical Journal of Australia (MJA) perspective was penned by Professor Ian Scott, Director of Internal Medicine and Clinical Epidemiology at Princess Alexandra Hospital, and Associate Professor Carmel Crock, Emergency Department Director at the Royal Victorian Eye and Ear Hospital.
     
    They claim an estimated 140,000 cases of diagnostic error occur in Australia each year. Of those cases, 21,000 are of serious harm, and result in 2000–4000 deaths.

    Oh look…there are nearly 4 times as many deaths in a year than died of the Big Bad Covid19 in 2020. And some of those would be in age groups barely touched by this novel coronavirus. Perhaps we should lockdown Drs surgeries to keep those poor people safe?

    Your ignorance is astonishing but that you dare lecture and insult others who have looked at the science and analysed the data just makes you look ridiculous.

  70. Richard the Tiger Heart says:

    I’m sorry, but in my professional experience, I formed the opinion that something was off when various state governments banned the use of hydroxychloroquine; azithromycin and downplayed the effectiveness of an ivermectin drip and Vitamin D.

    Any medical procedure (including vaccines), needs to take into account factors that are unique in an individual. When bureaucrats are involved in the practice of medicine, it ceases to be medicine and instead becomes politics. I could site a myriad of studies in medical journals for the aforementioned ethicals, but for whatever reason, the government seeks to shut down any real discussions of these.

    MD’s, like in every other profession, have excellent practitioners, good practitioners, poor & dreadful practitioners. Unfortunately what we have seen in 2020/21 is that excellent/good practitioners who have dared to question the official narrative, have been labelled as crackpots and been threatened by the state health authorities, whilst dreadful practitioners who have echoed the official narrative, have been elevated to prominent/formally prestigious positions (no names, but take a guess).

    As for myself, I will not be taking the vaccine until 1)politics has ceased to be a primary driver in the practice of medicine; 2) They stop threatening people with consequences who choose not to participate (for legitimate medical reasons that are none of the Governments business; or because an individual may be just a crackpot).

    I’ll just get put on the register suggesting that I have taken the vaccine and go about my life. Unfortunately, not everyone can do this, but hey, that’s politics.

    **For the record, questioning the efficacy/risk of a new vaccine for a new virus is not being an anti-vaxxer, it was, however, an integral part of medical risk minimisation. Unfortunately, this process has been subverted.

  71. Boambee John says:

    m0nty
    #3763847, posted on February 22, 2021 at 11:49 am
    The line of “I’m not anti-vaxx but I am anti THIS vaxx” reminds me of you lot claiming not to be misogynist but hating every female politician (apart from Thatcher who had no female characteristics at all). Or every non-white politician except those who are dead and that you can pretend were on your side the whole time.

    munty goes full misogynist and racist, as well as fascist.

    Margaret Thatcher had at least one child; since that was pre-tranny days, she seems to have had at least one female characteristic.

    Not quite a politician, but Clarence Thomas has long had a following here, and he is still alive. Others could be named.

  72. mh says:

    Monty from the other vax thread

    Herd immunity will not protect you if you refuse to be part of the herd.

    This is getting silly.

  73. GregJ says:

    I have no problem with Morrisson taking first jab in the queue. Frankly I am happy for him to do so. I would be just as happy to see him have his family – wife and kids – do the same.

    For myself, I’ll wait a couple of months or so to see the outcome, and in the meantime put in a stock of Ivermectin.

  74. Albatross says:

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
    #3763818, posted on February 22, 2021 at 11:34 am
    […]
    It’s not, M0nty. Most here are apprehensive about a ‘new’ vaccine and getting knotted knickers in rather a bothersome way.

    Sounds like you have the knotted knickers.

  75. Albatross says:

    not shedding massive viral loads

    Snort. Massive loads.

  76. Helen says:

    I dunno, it is untested and I think the risks of that rna vaccine given I have decades to live yet outweigh the risks for me actually contracting it even though I have asthma.

    Do people who have already had it have to be vaccinated? Is anyone testing this?
    I’d really like a program where you could go and get naturally infected and acquire natural immunity.

    And I don’t want to have to present a Qcode or card or sew something on my jacket to say I have had it in order to do my grocery shop. As for Bill Gates’microchip idea, that is just to control the Tax herd and governments love the idea.

    Yes, the injection will let Scotty from Marketing leave this chapter behind, it is a way out for him, but it is not necessarily the right way for us to leave it behind.

  77. John Bayley says:

    Interestingly enough, the Chinese have apparently declined to grant the permission for the mRNA vaccines to be used in their country.

    Their own vaccine, similar to the Russian Sputnik 1, is based on the more orthodox methodology of using actual viral matter, rather than just the spike protein.

    Take from this what you will, but I think the more important issues remain:

    1) The strong possibility of antibody-dependent enhancement reaction – i.e. the reason why there has never in the past been a succesful coronavirus vaccine. This would only show up further down the track, possibly even after a few years, when another version of this virus comes along.
    A nice little time bomb, in other words.
    Maybe that’s why it normally takes up to a decade before new vaccines are allowed to be used in humans?

    2) The guaranteed future mutations, quite normal for this type of virus, which will make the vaccine ineffective and will presumably require another version to be administered, further exacerbating the possibility of ADE.

    3) IMHO the most important part of this, which is the fact that COVID is not particularly dangerous and we have somehow managed to survive this far with the annual flu, without locking everyone up repeatedly and without forcing them to take the flu vaccine.

    So, has every one of our Dear Leaders lost their mind, are they really this stupid, or is there some other agenda?

  78. mh says:

    Tel from the other thread

    A fine principle, except for a small problem … the WHO have said that no vaccine can reliably prevent transmission, thus from a “herd immunity” standpoint, that would make the whole exercise useless. Mind you the CDC says the exact opposite … but there’s no real world trial that either side can cite … meaning they are guessing what it’s going to do.

    So the ChiCom run WHO says one thing, and the Washington Swamp CDC says another.

  79. John Bayley says:

    To add to my post above above, our very own researchers, testing the effectiveness of asthma inhalers, have found (quoting directly):

    ““When we first began the trial back in March [2020], we were hoping for 50 per cent reduction [in risk of developing serious symptoms], which itself would have been very high,” QUT associate professor Dan Nicolau said.

    “We got 90 per cent, which even with only a few hundred people is off the charts.

    “And it’s not just the overall result – their temperatures are less, they get less fever, and they recover faster.”

    Clinical trials with health workers in the USA have found that the therapy of Ivermectin, plus topical treatment (nasal & bucal) with iota carrageenan resulted in precisely zero new infections.

    Say again, why are we having the ‘COVID vaccine for everyone’ conversation?

  80. LBLoveday says:

    “(apart from Thatcher who had no female characteristics at all)”

    .
    I can not think of a more female characteristic than bearing children which she did with twins Mark and Carol.

  81. Paul says:

    To add to the infectiousness post immunization discussion. None of the current vaccines will stop infectiousness very well. Decreasing severity of illness is the main game. The only vaccine on the horizon with a good chance of effectively decreasing infectiousness is the nasal vaccine from Altimmune (still in trials). The reason is that is gives mucosal (respiratory tract lining) immunity (IgA for those who know about this stuff) as well as Ab’s. That will stop mucosal infections and hence spread. It is also the only route that has been shown to produce T-cells in lung tissus where they are actually needed.

  82. egg_ says:

    Late to the party.

    Caption contest?

    “First prick in line!”

  83. The BigBlueCat says:

    Not saying I’m going to avoid the COVID vaccination, but like many others I prefer to see the vaccination proven in the general population before I deliberately subject myself to it. And that’s the point – the decision to be vaccinated, or not, is a personal decision and one that must not be mandated, and for the following reasons:

    1. There are virtually no new cases of COVID in Australia apart from the virus being shared between members of very specific populations, and even then very few and very low incidences of mortality
    2. Vaccine trials are on very small populations, and so any adverse effects may not be known until the general population starts receiving it
    3. For most people who have had COVID they have recovered very well
    4. If there is an outbreak of COVID, it seems we can control it quite well (at least while the scale is small)
    5. Having a needle jabbed into your arm is not a risk-free exercise. The benefits need to outweigh the risks. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t See 2 above.

    So, I prefer to wait and see, since I’m hardly at risk, nor am I risk to others. Nothing to do with 5G and other crackpot, tin-hat conspiracy theories. While I trust that the TGA are doing their job, I also accept they are under pressure to approve COVID vaccines and may have got it wrong. Time will tell.

  84. The BigBlueCat says:

    So, has every one of our Dear Leaders lost their mind, are they really this stupid, or is there some other agenda?

    All of the above.

  85. egg_ says:

    munty goes full misogynist and racist, as well as fascist.

    The Leftoid PC mask is but wafer thin.

  86. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    They claim an estimated 140,000 cases of diagnostic error occur in Australia each year. Of those cases, 21,000 are of serious harm, and result in 2000–4000 deaths.

    Megan, I mentioned iatrogenic mortality and morbidity upthread. No-one would claim the all medical care is harmless. That’s why the old oath says ‘First, do not harm’. One thing to remember is that iatrogenic tracing deals with diagnostics; sometimes an opportunity is missed or diagnostic criteria change. It also deals with malpractice; where mistakes are made in treatments. Medicine, being evidence-based, means that nothing is written in stone, not all practitioners are up-to-date, and accusations when outcomes are poor are easy to make. Look at the numbers sensibly in terms of how many items of medical decision and practice are involved across a nation in a year, and the iatrogenic figures may be in need of improvement but they are not quite as drastic as they sound. The denominator runs into many millions.

    I totally concur by the way with your estimation of your own auto-immune risk where you have sensibly digested the relevant literature. You have long-standing issues and these put you in a separate category for vaccine acceptance, worth discussing with your treating specialist.

    I understand how and why plenty of people here are in the wait-and-see category and I am relieved that improved treatments may make that not the catastrophe it would have been six months ago, for we are sitting ducks once we open up our borders. Protection via vaccination is still the gold standard for contagious diseases. Safe vaccination, I hear many say. Well, safety is always a major factor, and we shall see how this pans out; all vaccines have some associated risks. The roll out so far has not had excessive side effects. Any population roll out will contain people who have the usual range of unforseen medical crises that are then blamed on vaccination.

    I am still prepared to take the Pfizer or Astra-Zenica, or others in the pipeline being tested now.

  87. Albatross says:

    the catastrophe it would have been six months ago, for we are sitting ducks once we open up our borders

    The real catastrophe is what our health lobby and governments have been allowed to do to our country.

    I award this post a Boomerscore of 1000.

  88. woolfe says:

    My daughter who is a nurse at St Vincents in Sydney is getting hers on Friday.

  89. Rebel with cause says:

    I remember when the government was left sitting on millions of vials of swine flu vaccine when that pandemic ran out of steam. There was a tent at every summer festival and event with people trying desperately to give the jabs away.

  90. Eyrie says:

    I’m losing the respect I used to have for certain posters here.
    Travel is over rated. Uncomfortable, expensive and a general pain. I can’t stand the thought of another 15 hour flight to the USA or 23 hours to Europe. Why anyone would get on a boat with several thousand other people to spend some weeks in a microbiological incubator beats me.
    Mass market tourism for jumped up bogans.

  91. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    From Albatross at 6:28 pm:

    ” the catastrophe it would have been six months ago, for we are sitting ducks once we open up our borders

    The real catastrophe is what our health lobby and governments have been allowed to do to our country.

    I award this post a Boomerscore of 1000.”

    You are not real bright, eh?

    Elizabeth has demonstrated, over a long period, knowledge in the field and she is prepared to make her case and to debate it as an informed adult. You offer nothing more than glib internet attempted point scoring.

  92. Stimpson J. Cat says:

    My daughter who is a nurse at St Vincents in Sydney is getting hers on Friday.

    It’s a reward for all the Tik Tok Dances nurses have done.
    I hope it goes well for her.

  93. Stimpson J. Cat says:

    Michael Caine
    @themichaelcaine
    Take your Vaccine, be safe.
    4:36 AM · Feb 22, 2021

  94. Tel says:

    None of the current vaccines will stop infectiousness very well. Decreasing severity of illness is the main game.

    If that’s true then they are a complete waste of time for anyone under 60, other than the morbidly obese with hypertension.

    What bothers me is that lack of any data to indicate that infectiousness has even been measured.

    We still don’t know why New York City was hit with a huge wave of death in April 2020, and then afterwards almost flat normal for the rest of the year until a tiny seasonal second wave around December. Why did it hit so hard, and then simply go away? Possibly natural herd immunity … I doubt anyone has a better explanation. Where is the measurement? Who is out there testing the natural immunity?

  95. mh says:

    Michael Caine
    @themichaelcaine
    Take your Vaccine, be safe.
    4:36 AM · Feb 22, 2021

    She was only eighty six years old.

  96. Tel says:

    With immunology, I leave it to the real experts. These guys are biochemically sophisticated in a way I doubt you or I or most laymen could match.

    Hard to find anyone more “biochemically sophisticated” than John McAfee but I dunno if I would go to him for health advice.

  97. Bruce Parr says:

    Why is there a plastic cap over the needle?

  98. Mark A says:

    mh
    #3763895, posted on February 22, 2021 at 12:27 pm

    Message to Bill Gates

    I am not an animal! I am a human being.

    I am a man.

    Frank Spencer?

  99. Chris M says:

    Mass market tourism for jumped up bogans.

    Indeed old boy. The shot is to have your own aircraft and ship, none of this public transport with the virus ridden plebs.

  100. Leo G says:

    We still don’t know why New York City was hit with a huge wave of death in April 2020, and then afterwards almost flat normal for the rest of the year until a tiny seasonal second wave around December.

    The population of those most susceptible to CoViD19 (aged over 75 years, with at least two major comorbidities) is a small fraction of the total population. Most were from poor Black or Hispanic communities who were likely to have poor vitamin D status at the start of spring in the shady city. Moreover the public health authorities were slow to act in mitigating transmission in those vulnerable groups- and in some very significant and now well-reported cases acted to aggravate transmission of the virus among the same groups.
    The virus encountered a critical mass of vulnerable people and promptly wiped out that population.

  101. Cardimona says:

    …. it is a pandemic of a new virus calls SarsCoV2. Virologists do know what they are on about.

    Lizzie, I was thinking of doing an FOI with Qld and fed health depts for the doc that shows where and when the Sars-Cov-2 virus was isolated.

    Like this lass did – https://rumble.com/vc6r2m-freedom-of-information-request-as-to-whether-covid-19-has-been-proven-to-ex.html

    Do you happen to have a link to that doc?
    Could save me the trouble…

  102. maree says:

    Hmm, posts have disappeared into the ether. They were quite innocuous, just observations on the jab discussion.

  103. Albatross says:

    Mick Gold Coast QLD
    #3764302, posted on February 22, 2021 at 9:20 pm
    [….]
    Elizabeth has demonstrated, over a long period, knowledge in the field

    This one got a chuckle out big me. Thanks Mick.

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