Che Guevara still acceptable

Displaying the swastika could soon be banned in Victoria after a parliamentary committee recommended making it a criminal offence along with other Nazi symbols.

An inquiry into anti-vilification protections has examined whether the state’s current laws were strong enough after a recent spate of incidents in which the swastika was displayed or graffitied in public places.

It recommended that the public display of Nazi symbolism be banned to address the problem amid concerns hate crime was on the rise.

Source.

Nazi swastika’s aren’t something I encounter very often – outside of museums and WWII movies – so I imagine this is more virtue signalling than a binding constraint on many people.

But again it raises the question of how is it that communist and Marxist symbols don’t attract the same levels of opprobrium?

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66 Responses to Che Guevara still acceptable

  1. Buddhists and Hindus might take offense at the banning of their holy symbol.
    Just saying.

  2. Roger says:

    I can’t read the article linked, but would seem they haven’t consulted the Hindu and Buddhist communities, for whom the swastika is a spiritual symbol.

    As to why Communist symbols don’t attract the same opprobrium, that is due to one of the most successful propaganda campaigns of modern history.

  3. Roger says:

    Snap, Bruce!

  4. Mustapha Bunn says:

    It wasn’t always a “Nazi symbol. In fact prior to the 1930s it was the official babe/symbol of one of the four houses at the school I later attended. By my time the symbol adopted was the Cross of Lorraine.

  5. cuckoo says:

    But it will still be okay to scrawl swastikas on pictures of Jeff Kennett, right?

  6. C.L. says:

    The ABC’s report says the Swastika ban will be accompanied by a new crack-down:

    [The inquiry] also says anti-vilification laws should be extended to cover gender and sexual orientation, disability and HIV status.

    This is just cover to arrest enemies of the left (the irony – it burns) because they can’t find enough people to prosecute:

    In the 20 years since the act became law, there have been only two successful prosecutions.

    The report found that prejudice-motivated crime is commonly under-reported by victims and under-recorded by police officers.

    It said part of the problem was the difficulty of making a complaint and reaching the high bar required for a prosecution…

    It made 36 recommendations to broaden and strengthen the laws, most notably by bringing them into the existing framework of the state’s Equal Opportunity and Human Rights Commission and applying its powers to deal with discrimination to cases of vilification — including the power to compel information and documents.

    Andrews and his judges hate that high bar for prosecutions, man.

  7. Barry Bones says:

    Although the Nationalist SOCIALIST workers party is a creature of the left

  8. Scott Osmond says:

    It doesn’t matter how many people you kill or how you kill them. As with everything with the left it’s the side. Funniest thing I saw was a clueless lefty chick being asked why she was wearing a shirt championing a masss murderer who raped and tortured people in front of their families? Do you approve of that sort of thing? Back in the early 2000s mass murderer shaming still worked. Not sure about today’s lot.

  9. Lee says:

    During the VIC lockdown and Melbourne’s iron curtain, I saw and heard about signs with Nazi imagery next to Dan – Dan in a storm trooper outfit or next to a nazi sign demanding papers etc. There were probably swastika ones in there too.

    I suspect the only ones offended are Dan, his inner circle and PR guy.

  10. Baa Humbug says:

    But again it raises the question of how is it that communist and Marxist symbols don’t attract the same levels of opprobrium?

    The opprobrium comes from the communists and Marxists. Why would they ban their own symbols?

  11. Tim Neilson says:

    Philip Adams was a member of the communist party at a time when they still hagiographised Stalin. Shortly after Stalin was denounced Adams quit the communist party.
    Imagine a former [email protected]! being given a taxpayer funded national radio gig for decades. It could never happen. Yet a former Stalin follower can get one, and whenever it was suggested that Adams had been on air for long enough and someone else should get a go there were shrieks about him being “silenced”.

  12. incoherent rambler says:

    Can I still call Dan “Mein Führer”?

  13. Chris M says:

    Indeed. Censor the Chinese flag.

  14. Rabbi Putin says:

    The more they do this the more they make fascism appealing

  15. bela bartok says:

    There goes my favourite musical “The Producers”. “May I take your hats, your coats and your swastikas?”.
    Banned.
    Why don’t they just make it illegal to upset someone- anyone – on the Left and be done with it.

  16. Brislurker says:

    Need help! Off topic, but am unable to get into open thread. Have been offline and wondered if there is something different required now from the last 10 tears.

  17. Mother Lode says:

    You often see swastikas scrawled on images of Liberals and Republicans by leftists – it is one of the infantile ways they vent their hatred.

    Oh, and anti-semites like them of course. Who are the people with most hatred of Juice?

  18. Major Elvis Newton says:

    Molly Meldrum loves Che…

  19. RobK says:

    Symbols of the Third Reich are used by vile people but banning the symbols won’t change the vile nature of those people.
    If anything the symbols are a reminder of the need to protect all that is precious. There is always a threat to peace.

  20. KaaBee says:

    I think Dear Leader Dan would be much preferred by Andrews followers than Mein Fuhrer and it has a nice comforting ring to it.

  21. Major Elvis Newton says:

    Pic with him and Gudinski in the Hun yesterday sporting a t-shirt with his favourite muse…

  22. Diogenes says:

    I asked our ex-union rep (a rabid green, feminist lesbian , and lefty BIRM) why she was wearing a Che T-shirt, when he beat gays to death using baseball bats and believed women had no place outside the home. She scoffed and I told her to look it up, which to her credit she did. The next day she told me she had disposed of the shirt.

  23. duncanm says:

    I have an Che NPC shirt I wear with pride.

    Causes some confusion amongst strangers.

  24. There will be a lot of criminal prosecutions against people using swastika images in public.

    Lefty types will be jailed in wholesale numbers, for writing in LNP election corflutes, LNP electorate offices, office buildings housing mining companies, anti-fracking protest placards, & so on.

    This will be fun to watch.

  25. Luke73 says:

    Although the Nationalist SOCIALIST workers party is a creature of the left

    Perhaps so at the very beginning when the early (pre-Hitler) Nazi party considered forms of market control to benefit small businesses and to halt “foreign” (read: Jewish) control over markets but when Hitler took over the party in 1921, he shredded the anti-capitalist parts of the old party’s platform.

    To state the obvious Hitler (as well as hating the Jews) really hated Trade Unions, Communists, Socialists and Social Democrats. Once the Nazi’s assumed power they banned, imprisoned and killed these leftists as fast as they could.

  26. areff says:

    They’d better get to work with the chisels on the old Theosophical Society building on Collins Street, up the hill from the Regent. It’s the original swastika, not the reversed Nazi version, but it should be more than enough to get the safe-space advocates upset.

    https://ibb.co/YBqSkQS

  27. Sam says:

    Why would Chairman Dan ban the symbol of the National Socialist Party I thought he is proud Socialist?

  28. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    “to address the problem amid concerns hate crime was on the rise”

    Oh dear – have the dusky Heidelbergers been at it again? … visiting randomly selected Australians in their homes to demonstrate to their hosts, personally, just how grateful they really are for being let in?

  29. Entropy says:

    Does that means if the government was to fund a world war 2 fillum or doco it would have to be made outside Victoria?

  30. Turtle says:

    One type of socialist hates another type of socialist.

  31. Tel says:

    Lefty types will be jailed in wholesale numbers, for writing in LNP election corflutes, LNP electorate offices, office buildings housing mining companies, anti-fracking protest placards, & so on.

    You know perfectly well this will be selectively enforced.

    Remember how the cops were kneeling down before BLM protests … and the next day beating up grandma for sitting on a park bench, stealing mobile phones out of people’s hands, smashing down the front door of someone’s apartment because they said the wrong thing somewhere on the Internet? Yeah, that sort of selective enforcement.

  32. Entropy says:

    Lefty types will be jailed in wholesale numbers, for writing in LNP election corflutes, LNP electorate offices, office buildings housing mining companies, anti-fracking protest placards, & so on.

    well, clearly it is the LNP doing the displaying in that case. Burn them!

  33. Entropy says:

    International socialist hate national socialists. The bloody splitters! News at 11.

  34. Brislurker – Go to the Open Thread and click “permalink” where it says “Bookmark the permalink.” It should then render correctly.

  35. Tel says:

    Why would Chairman Dan ban the symbol of the National Socialist Party I thought he is proud Socialist?

    Bitter differences over who has the best five year plan.

    No one scratches their heads when one outlaw biker gang gets into a fight with another biker gang … “But hey, can’t they all be motorcycle aficionados together?!?”

    No one goes into staggered confusion when they hear that one Mafia family put out a hit on a different Mafia family … “Golly, they all wear sunglasses, sharp suits and eat spaghetti, I thought they would all just get along.”

  36. Mother Lode says:

    I remember at uni how the different species of socialists and communists used to rail against each other.

    It was when they revealed themselves to have not grown up since they were whinging about other people’s toys in the sandpit.

  37. tgs says:

    They have better marketing departments.

  38. Lysander says:

    how about a piss christ?

  39. Brislurker says:

    BoN, thank you so much. Was having serious withdrawl problems after 10-12 years of following The Cat. 😃

  40. You mean, if an LNP election corflute is defaced with swastikas, that criminal culpability lies with the LNP for forcing people to spray-paint swastikas?

    Easy to believe.
    (There’s nothing, not one thing, on the Babylon Bee that hasn’t or won’t come true)

  41. Rex Anger says:

    As to why Communist symbols don’t attract the same opprobrium, that is due to one of the most successful propaganda campaigns of modern history.

    That, and it’s mighty hard to draw on a hard surface with a Sharpie when you’re full of fervour (or merely hard liquor and ‘soft’ drugs)…

    The collapse of the Soviet Union saw the simultaneous collapse of the biggest and most organised Modernist propaganda and Branding collective ever seen in human history.

    You didn’t need to drawer gud when your friendly local KGB front orgabisation could furnish you with neatly pressed Red Stars, Upraised Fists, Che Guevara silhouette posters and Hammer-and-Sickle banners for the mere asking.

    Ditto catchy but grammatically complicated slogans that sound rather awful when translated out of Russian.

    The only group that approaches their sheer grandeur and efficiency is North Korea. And they’ve gone a bit cuckoo- Witness what happened when Kim Jon-Il got in on Japan’s Pokémon craze…*

    And the Chinese went all yucky and Commercial-Fascist: Their visual propaganda (for all its apparent technical sophistication) is as tacky, slapdash and ephemeral as all their other consumer goods. You get better memes from their mockers in the West.

    *OK- This is probably a Western meme artist pisstake. But it’s still off-the-wall enough to be mistaken as genuine…

  42. Ian Macmillan says:

    The Buddhist symbol (The Footsteps of the Buddha) has a square form.
    The Nazi swastika is rotated 45 degrees into a diamond form.
    I expect that the cross will be the next symbol to be banned. So obviously sexist.

  43. W Hogg says:

    Given it’s a Hindu symbol, the establishment clause makes that difficult.

  44. rich says:

    because we have a whole side of politics that judges by intentions and not results- i.e. the holodomor was an unfortunate side effect of collectivisation and lysenkoism- unfortunate!

    Everyone was equal in the end! (though some were more equal than others)

  45. Damon says:

    Give me a break! BLM, the acronym for an avowedly Marxist organisation, is painted on the streets of Washington, D.C., the capital of the ‘free’ world, with full approval of its Mayor.

  46. Simple Simon says:

    But again it raises the question of how is it that communist and Marxist symbols don’t attract the same levels of opprobrium?

    It shouldn’t.
    It is a non-question.
    Any seriously thinking person knows why it is that communist and Marxist symbols do not attract the same levels of opprobrium in our societies.

    Tragically, no matter how often it is said, and no matter how many examples pile up, non-Leftists seem never to accept the idea that Leftists do not argue good faith.

    No wonder that Leftists regard conservative, liberals (in the true and traditional Australian/UK/NZ/other non-US meaning of the word, a la J. S. Mill, Sir Robert Menzies’ Liberal Party, and even Milton Friedman) as stupid.

    Until non-Leftists accept this simple fact and fight back accordingly they will continue to lose until eventually they have lost everything that matters.

  47. Lee says:

    Indeed. Censor the Chinese flag.

    The Chinese flag was flown over Box Hill police station, here in Melbourne a couple of years ago, causing much outrage.
    Rather appropriate considering VicPol’s extremely close ties to Dictator Dan, China’s Man.
    My observation is that leftists use symbols like the swastika far more than imaginary extreme right wing types.

  48. Paul says:

    Lets not forget, its the racist left upper class who are defining what is offensive

    And if course only lefty free speakers is not offensive to the perpetually angry left.

  49. stackja says:

    Stalin, Mao, Fidel, Xi etc don’t receive the same treatment as the 1930s Germans.

  50. Gorilla Dance Party says:

    Leftards don’t care about hypocrisy and they definitely don’t care when you point it out.

  51. Tailgunner says:

    The swastika – most powerful symbol in world history after the Cross?

  52. Mustapha Bunn says:

    One of the funniest T shirts I ever saw was the usual Che one with the words,” Get over it,he’s dead” printed underneath.

  53. Lee says:

    I have never been in favour of censorship or banning for any reason.
    And that includes for having the “wrong” political thoughts or opinions.

  54. Squirrel says:

    Hard to get too excited about this, but there will be some amusement when the boofheads who think that this sort of stuff atones for the awfulness of the Andrews government discover some old Kipling books and publicly burn them.

  55. Simple Simon says:

    Ian Macmillan says:
    March 3, 2021 at 3:23 pm

    The Buddhist symbol (The Footsteps of the Buddha) has a square form.
    The Nazi swastika is rotated 45 degrees into a diamond form.

    You might like to walk back that claim:

    http://ayay.co.uk/backgrounds/historical/nazi_third_reich/hitler-checking-the-nazi-standards.jpg

    https://arsof-history.org/articles/images/v4n2_creating_a_demigod/sb_standard.jpg

    https://germanwarmachine.com/images/uploads/timeline-photos/third-reich/1907-1923/samenlrg.jpg

    Just a few examples from the countless available.

  56. Simple Simon says:

    Luke73 says:
    March 3, 2021 at 2:14 pm
    Although the Nationalist SOCIALIST workers party is a creature of the left
    Perhaps so at the very beginning when the early (pre-Hitler) Nazi party considered forms of market control to benefit small businesses and to halt “foreign” (read: Jewish) control over markets but when Hitler took over the party in 1921, he shredded the anti-capitalist parts of the old party’s platform.
    To state the obvious Hitler (as well as hating the Jews) really hated Trade Unions, Communists, Socialists and Social Democrats. Once the Nazi’s assumed power they banned, imprisoned and killed these leftists as fast as they could.

    This is the usual socialist/communist trope used to bamboozle the unstudied and the incurious, and to stop them thinking about the very real links and the commonalities between the international socialists and the national socialists. To any serious student of these movements both are clearly collectivist reactions to industrialisation that sought to escape what was seen as the alienation of industrial/capitalist society with a return to an authenticity imagined to have been present in pre-industrial/pre-capitalist social relations.

    At the time (the 1920s and 1930s), no-one was in doubt of the socialist nature of Germany’s national socialism (or Italy’s fascism, another socialist collectivist ideology based on the idea that all must be subordinated to the collective) with the national socialists (and the fascists) receiving approval and admiration from the Left (including Wilson’s Progressives in the US) until Stalin’s drawing of a propaganda line between ‘red’ and ‘brown’ socialism after the deterioration of relations with Germany.

    Allied governments went along with this newly-invented distinction to assist in their mass mobilisation and propaganda efforts, a tactical decision the strategic error of which haunts us still today, and is illustrated in Luke73’s reiteration of that old trope.

    The fact that Germany’s National Socialists viciously repressed and killed other Leftists (along with non-Leftist opponents, it should be remembered) in no way indicates that they were not themselves of the Left, any more than the Bolsheviks’ similar vicious repression and liquidation (a term for killing invented by the Bolsheviks and first seen around 1924/5) of their own Leftist opponents and competitors (along with non-Leftist opponents, it also should be remembered) would indicate that Soviet Communists were not of the Left.

    (As an aside, if Luke73’s argument in this regard were at all valid, the National Socialists’ repression and killing of German conservatives, monarchists, and liberals (in the Millsian/traditional Australia sense and not the current US mis-usage meaning crypto-socialist) would mean that the Nazis were not right-wing, something that he appears not to have taken into consideration when making it.)

    There is a lot of cant in discussions of the mass ideologies of the early and mid-twentieth century; the trope used by Luke73 looms large therein.

  57. Tailgunner says:

    Stimpson is the resident Hindu, I want his take.

  58. Tel says:

    To state the obvious Hitler (as well as hating the Jews) really hated Trade Unions, Communists, Socialists and Social Democrats. Once the Nazi’s assumed power they banned, imprisoned and killed these leftists as fast as they could.

    Not quite correct, they encouraged the trade unions and in some cases even forced the employers to join those unions as well … but with the small proviso that a Party member was in charge.

    At times trade unions could be quite useful … consider if a business might be less than enthusiastic about the latest production targets, or perhaps complained too much about lack of available materials, or simply wasn’t quite on the ball with the whole war effort … why then the union would start to discover reports about how this business was mistreating the workers, underpaying, dangerous workplace. I mean, at that stage the government officials would HAVE to get involved, they were forced to really, can’t have this sort of thing going on … these anti-social employers need to be taught a lesson, for the little guy, you understand?

  59. Splatacrobat says:

    The ABC logo is a hate symbol as far as I am concerned.

  60. PB says:

    “Simple Simon says:
    March 3, 2021 at 6:39 pm”

    Not sure Simon but I think the changed axis of the Swastika happened about 1935. I think that’s when it was adopted as the German National flag. Interested to hear if anyone knows any more.

  61. Simple Simon says:

    PB says:
    March 3, 2021 at 9:07 pm

    Not sure Simon but I think the changed axis of the Swastika happened about 1935. I think that’s when it was adopted as the German National flag. Interested to hear if anyone knows any more.

    Actually, they used both forms depending on stylistic requirements from the beginning until the end. See, for example, this image from the 1938 Nuremberg rally in which both orientations are clearly visible: the ‘square’ image on the standards being held as well as the large standard on the wall, and the ’tilted’ image on the national flags on either side of the standard on the wall.

    The point is that Ian MacMillan’s claim that,

    The Buddhist symbol (The Footsteps of the Buddha) has a square form.
    The Nazi swastika is rotated 45 degrees into a diamond form

    is not correct. That is all.

    You are right about its incorporation into the national flag in 1935.

  62. Simple Simon says:

    Simple Simon says:
    March 3, 2021 at 10:21 pm

    See, for example, this image from the 1938 Nuremberg rally in which both orientations are clearly visible

    Oops. Forgot to provide a link to the image.

    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/nuremberg-rally-in-nuremberg-germany-marchin-of-the-standards-into-picture-id1058582112?s=2048×2048

  63. Andre Lewis says:

    There is a cafe/restaurant in Saigon (yes I know they don’t want it called that now but everyone there does) with the Communist symbol displayed everywhere and the staff wear replica Viet Cong uniforms. Not many local go there but it fills up with western tourist who laugh and laugh about the decor of war battles where the US and Australians lost troops. Wearing a Che T shirt is mild in comparison. How soon we forget.

  64. Andre Lewis says:

    There is a cafe/restaurant in Saigon (yes I know they don’t want it called that now but everyone there does) with the Communist symbol displayed everywhere and the staff wear replica Viet Cong uniforms. Not many local go there but it fills up with young western tourist who laugh and laugh about the decor of war battles where the US and Australians lost troops. Wearing a Che T shirt is mild in comparison. How soon we forget.

  65. Top Ender says:

    ….how is it that communist and Marxist symbols don’t attract the same levels of opprobrium?

    It’s because there are foolish people out there who haven’t educated themselves in the tyrannical excesses of the Soviet and Chinese governments of previous years.

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