Voi che sapete

LIQ put up a post which featured an aria from the Barber of Seville – La Calunnia – about how slander starts as a gentle breeze but eventually, if properly attended to, becomes a roaring tornado. Min wrote an unbelievably astute comment which reads in full:

Voi che sapete

So I will put up both Voi che sapete (from The Marriage of Figaro) and then follow it with another version of La Calunnia both of which together really do capture so much of what is taking place before us. First Voi che sapete, possibly the greatest song devoted to young love ever written. Despite appearances, Cherubino is a young lad, around 15-16 years old.

And then La Calunnia about slander and its uses.

Is there more to add to the political mess that confronts us? No doubt, but this really does seem to say a very great deal about what is going on.

But if you do want more, there is this piece of “reporting” from The Australian: Unreconcilable teenage memories dealing with a story of events that occurred more than thirty years ago retold by a woman who is acknowledged to have been mentally ill, and then selectively retold again based on a series of highly salacious “recovered” memories which includes this:

 

We have moved from the gutter press into serious evil.

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51 Responses to Voi che sapete

  1. win says:

    Have the Friends of this poor women been named and fronted up to put their case in person or is it all undercover with the malicious media doing their usual job.

  2. Cui Bono says:

    It’s a no from me for a special inquiry but if THEY insist, then THEY must all front up, detailing who knew and did what and when.

  3. Candy says:

    Like the Pell and Shorten cases there is simply no evidence. Not a skerrick.
    Shorten and Porter cases involve youth, probably alcohol and a couple together for some time with no witnesses. It is feasible there was non consent and that is all you can say.

    Divulging a deceased person’s diary adds nothing and seems indecent. She died just last year or year before too.

  4. Econocrat says:

    Robodebt. Guilty until proven innocent.

  5. Mak Siccar says:

    Very grainy video but fantastic singing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMY3Ou9L5xE

  6. H B Bear says:

    Who doesn’t write in circles?

  7. H B Bear says:

    I’m no friend of Prof van Wrongselen but even he is starting to get it.

  8. Perfidious Albino says:

    I wonder if there is more than coincidence in the timing of her advising police she didn’t want to proceed and then taking her own life, with being advised by her lawyer that he had set up a meeting with a well known ‘journalist’. Seems like a logical question for the Coroner to ask, in the circumstances.

  9. Shy Ted says:

    That cherubic “lad” is a lady. What next, blokes in dresses?!

  10. H B Bear says:

    Seems like a logical question for the Coroner to ask, in the circumstances.

    There are a lot of possible questions for any inquiry. You know (if) one is held these are the ones which won’t be asked.

  11. Ceres says:

    Who doesn’t write in circles?
    Says it all.

  12. exsteelworker says:

    From now on, all blokes will need to download the new ” im about to have a root app” and video consent on your phone, then send it to a government registrar app and wait for a tick of approval from an ” expert consultant ” thats the only way to move forward.

  13. Beachcomber says:

    We have moved from the gutter press into serious evil.

    i.e. into Chairman Wong and Hanson-Young etc.

  14. Roger says:

    Have the Friends of this poor women been named and fronted up to put their case in person or is it all undercover with the malicious media doing their usual job.

    The Adelaide Advertiser has a feature this weekend in which they promise to continue to “fight for justice”.

    One wonders if grief has not pushed them into hysteria? Or, as Steve suggests, does evil have a grip on them?

  15. Robber Baron says:

    Porter will be sacrificed by Scomo at some stage. He sacrifices anyone and everything for his glory.

  16. BrettW says:

    And the role of Penny Wong who “bumped” into her and encouraged her to go to police in late 2019. How many contacts did Wong have with her. Was her death around time ABC were gearing up for the Four Corners hit job. We know one of deceased’s friends was interviewed so did friend tell her about ABC interest just before her death. So many questions that can be asked.

    There are multiple indicators deceased was far from well and it is difficult to imagine she could have given credible evidence in court. Most unfortunate if Porter was the cause but we will never know.

    “wonder if there is more than coincidence in the timing of her advising police she didn’t want to proceed and then taking her own life, with being advised by her lawyer that he had set up a meeting with a well known ‘journalist’. Seems like a logical question for the Coroner to ask, in the circumstances”

  17. H B Bear says:

    Not a good look for Liar elder statesman kd wrong.

  18. Suburban Boy says:

    Selections from “Unreconcilable teenage memories” with comments

    Her detailed account of what she described as an eight-year involvement [What? She remained “involved” for eight years with the man who raped her in an act of “savagery”?]

    At a dinner with him in Perth in September 1994, the woman said Mr Porter propositioned her and joked “you owe me one”, which she took to be a reference to the alleged attack. [More plausibly: Porter didn’t get a root in 1988, and joked about missing out then. Otherwise, what is it that she supposedly “owed” him? Alternatively: Porter remembers how much he did to help her back to her digs and clean her up when she was pissed out of her mind – as described below – and thought he was owed something for the trouble he took]

    This “broke the spell that had been cast seven years earlier” when, on the day of alleged rape, Mr Porter had boasted he would be prime minister one day and need a “smart, pretty wife” to help his career.

    “I was flattered by his compliments and implicit suggestion that he would need a smart and pretty wife,” the woman said in her statement, drafted in the months before her death last year and reviewed by Melbourne entrepreneur Jeremy Samuel, whom she knew from school debating. [she read into his all-too-plausible remarks that she would be that wife]

    This was sent last week anonymously by her friends to Mr Morrison, Labor frontbencher Penny Wong and Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young along with a covering letter that acknowledged concern by her parents that mental illness could have caused to have “confected or embellished” the allegation against Mr Porter [even her parents think she might have “confected” the allegation due to her illness].

    En route to lunch with Mr Kennedy, another friend from debating and now managing director of the California Clean Energy Fund, she said Mr Porter returned from a visit to the toilets at Sydney’s Central Station talking about “how different last night could have been” had there been a condom vending machine at the University of Sydney dormitory where she was staying. [This actually rings true: in my interpretation, Porter was too careful to root a girl without a condom, not just because of fear of pregnancy but it was at the height of the AIDS pandemic]

    Mr Samuel, a member of the 1988-89 national debating team the woman captained after the alleged rape, said she had told him of her story after they reconnected in June 2019. [She waited 30 years to tell him?]

    The woman said she first encountered Mr Porter as a 15-year-old at the Australian School Students Debating competition in her hometown of Adelaide in July 1986. They danced at the final night party of the following year’s tournament. [To my mind: the beginning of a deep and eventually fatal infatuation on her part]

    According to the woman, Mr Porter told her she should be wearing a bikini, but it was a “shame you don’t have the tits for it”. [This also rings true: exactly the sort of thing you would expect from a callow 17-year-old who was popular with the girls] Shocked, she said nothing [member of a national debating team says nothing in response to an offensive remark – mmm].

    Ahead of this Mr Porter asked the woman if she would iron his blue and white-striped dress shirt, which she did in the communal laundry, according to her statement. Sitting on a chair, watching while she ironed the shirt, Mr Porter purportedly said she would “make a wonderful wife” one day. [Again, an entirely plausible thing for a young bloke like him to say, and which it was all too easy for her to misinterpret as more than just a jokey compliment]

    The woman’s description of the alleged rape is confronting. She alleged Mr Porter propositioned her, asking: “How about a pearl necklace?”, a sex act to which she agreed. He then forced her to perform oral sex against her will, she claimed. [Good effort by Porter: having shed his load for the pearl necklace, he was soon up for a blow job – smacks a little of Pell’s impressive sexual performance with the choirboys] She lost track of time, “dissociating badly in order to cope”.

    When she vomited, he said: “Come on … I’ll clean you up.” She was still too drunk to stand, so he helped her wash in the bathroom. [Communal bathroom in the college or a separate bathroom for her room? – the former makes you wonder why they weren’t spotted, the latter is possible but seems unlikely in 1988 in an old college building] She remembered seeing him write on a steam-misted mirror, “Christian Porter was ‘ere, Jan 88”, before he shaved her legs and underarms, then conditioned her hair He dressed her in a nightgown and helped her into bed, her statement said. [WTF? He forced her to blow him, then he shaves her legs and ‘pits and conditions her hair and helps her dress for bed? Monster or model gentleman: you be the judge].

    She woke to him anally raping her, she alleged. [As one does after taking care to shave a girl’s legs, condition her hair, and then help dress her for bed. But how did Porter get from St Paul’s College into the Women’s College? Both colleges are fenced and the Women’s College, in particular, would in 1988 have had at least rudimentary security against intruders. Or did Porter stay there all night, having arrived randy as a stoat and her drunk as skunk, both waltzing into the Women’s College without challenge?]

    The woman said she told no one what had happened partly because she was ashamed, but also because of her schoolgirl dream of a life with Mr Porter as his wife. [Ah, now it comes out] Within months, she had succeeded him as captain of Australian School Students Debating team with a new line-up: Mr Samuel had been wheeled in alongside Mr Hooke.

    Her statement describes how she gained a better understanding of her fragmented memories of the alleged rape when she was referred by her psychologist to the research of Bessel van der Kolk, a devotee of discredited recovered memory therapy [there are scores if not hundreds of men, and some women, who have been wrongly convicted of crimes due to “evidence” given by complainants who have undergone this type of “therapy”].

    Mr Samuel said he had no doubt “something had happened” to cause the woman to contract what seemed to him to be a form of post-traumatic stress disorder. “I had no way of knowing what did or did not happen because I was not there,” he said. [Entirely plausible: but the “something” that happened was the realisation that the “schoolgirl dream” she had lived with for years would never happen. The shattering of a lifelong dream can certainly cause deep emotional problems]

  19. Andre Lewis says:

    Not doubt the coroner will want to interview the ‘recovered memories’ expert who treated the deceased woman. This discredited therapy should be once more be brought into the light to show what a thoroughly evil idea it is. People with problems being convinced by charlatans that all manner of terrible things happened to them years ago that they can suddenly ‘remember’ can only damage them far more.

  20. min says:

    Luke Grant started his shift last night by reading the report from The Australian that left me tossing and turning about how to inform the right people about the therapy that is claimed to have initiated her reporting the alleged crime to the police. Now watching Insiders with Annabelle Crabbe PVO. and Murphy that is also relevant.
    However let’s start with the therapy . Apparently the claimant had had years of mental health issues ,so psychiatrists and psychologists whose notes like mine were , can be subpoenaed for a court case, if law is the same in NSW as it was in Victoria.
    It has been claimed that the claimant underwent repressed memory therapy and EMDR a therapy to help those with PTSD but described as a quasi therapy that had complaints against its use .
    Francine Shapiro , the psychologist who developed EMDR for the treatment of PTSD that has been used with great success with firstly Vietnam Veterans and then later for other trauma victims, such as traffic accidents , victims of crimes etc. , ran a training course for Psychiatrists and psychologists in Sydney at the Ritz Carlton , Elizabeth Bay . I only mention this as a time frame as I attended this course and also stayed with other colleagues at the same hotel . Guns and Roses were there also on the floor above our room this trivia as I rode in the lift with them and had no idea who these sleazy looking men in black leather were but establishes time frame .
    Back to the training , where the first issue Francine raised was that this therapy was not to be used with people who dissociate and continued with stories of her experience with Multiple Personality Disorder clients . This disorder is now called DID or Dissociative Identity Disorder . We sat there amazed and during the break whilst talking with others there did not appear to be anyone who had ever had experience with this disorder .
    Francine also emphasised that clients had to be tested for disassociation and gave out a questionnaire that established the level experienced . BTW everyone has dissociated at sometime such as your mind going on holiday whilst listening to a boring lecture so the relevant issue is how much and how often .
    What is important and relevant to these allegations is that the claimant herself told the police she dissociates to the point of not being coherent and grounded therefore was EMDR used incorrectly and exacerbated her condition .
    The therapy is used with memories , not repressed , the incident can be experienced again with all the emotional repercussions occurring again when triggered . For example watch VV s jump when a car back fires , a sexual abuse victim of mine suffered a panic attack when smelling aftershave in a store . With EMDR the memories remain but the emotional response is minimised .
    I also attended a workshop years later where research was presented by a Harvard Professor who had investigated with PET scans , brain activity of sufferers before and after treatment with EMDR. After EMDR the memory remained without the emotional flooding .
    I hope I have explained this clearly but it seems to me that treatment may have exacerbated confusion , confused memories plus other negative results. If this is the case who does one give this information in order to have it investigated especially in relation to her death .

  21. chrism says:

    I travelled to Vienna a few years ago (2012 as I recall, but memory is an unreliable guide) and each afternoon off went to different museums … their ‘MAK’ (? modern art museum..) had a display by the unusual Elke Krystufek : ‘Liquid Logic’ – it was truly mind bending – as someone who has over the years studied (peripherally) the dark psychiatric arts & gerontology – I was convinced the lack of facial animation in her self-portraits was mostly likely treated psychosis and/or parkinsonian : she used a very similar writing style to our subject CP accuser’s method as shown above –

    https://cartyblue.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/03krystufek_counting_system.jpg

    warning – unusual images ***
    https://www.we-find-wildness.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/112.450-800×549.jpg

    I loved her art but remained concerned for her mental health; sounds like she is still mostly OK… possibly…

    recovered memories as a process was imho destroyed with study evidence that false memories of eg childhood dog attacks or medical procedures can be inserted by psychologists

    the case studies we discuss later provide strong evidence that it is indeed possible to implant false memories of extremely traumatic events

    https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-19/edition-6/recovered-and-false-memories

    There are good grounds to, like Ergas’ Athenians article recalls, limit criminal claims also : a statute of criminal claim limitations : and for adults 7 years seems about right and for children until age 26 seems fair

    Porter might not be tough enough : fighting evil with tepid rational responses will get you nowhere (what has happened to Kavanagh ??)

  22. Syd Gal says:

    David Hardaker’s Crikey story 5 March “Here’s one for an independent inquiry: Did recovered memories target Christian Porter?” says the woman’s statement includes details about the eye movement desensitisation and reprocessing (EMDR) therapy she received in 2019 for recovered memories.

    Hardaker also had a story 12 May 2020 regarding Pell’s case: “The Pell legacy II: lessons for journalists, prosecutors and those trying to tell the story”. A few excerpts:

    ….The Australian‘s legal affairs writer Chris Merritt has reported that Witness J received treatment for “psychological problems”, but that Pell’s legal team was denied access to any detail due to the laws of evidence — laws which make it all but impossible for a person accused of a sexual offence to access the medical or counselling records of a complainant.

    Under section 32D of the Evidence (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1958, a jury cannot know that a defendant sought and was denied access to the records.

    The law was introduced to protect the privacy of sexual assault victims and encourage them to seek counselling without the fear that what they said in therapy could be used against them in court.

    Theoretically — for there is no evidence of this in the case of Witness J — the provision opens up the possibility that an accuser might have received treatment which results in unreliable memories and that a jury might not be aware of that.

    The definition of a “counsellor” under the act is wide. It covers “[anyone] who is treating a person for an emotional or psychological condition”. This might include those with qualifications as a social worker, a psychologist, a psychotherapist or points in between. They might be practising therapies approved by self-regulating professional associations, but there is no legal requirement that they do.

    Emeritus Professor of Psychology at Deakin University Don Thomson, who is also a barrister, told Inq: “There’s a whole lot of people out there who claim to have expertise but they don’t.”

    “From my point of view the act should have more specific requirements.”

    Thomson, has specialised in the areas of perception and memory and was part of a roundtable of experts which advised the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.

    He told Inq that people are constantly reconstructing their memories of events and that being “highly confident” was “no indicator of reliability or accuracy”.

    In a Victorian Court of Appeal decision last year, Justice Mark Weinberg flagged that the complainant in a case of historic abuse against Christian Brother John Tyrrell had likely fantasised elements of his abuse.

    The victim alleged extreme abuse including that he was raped more than 140 times in two years in after-school classes with the assaults coming out of the blue starting in the first of the classes and with none of the grooming typical of abusers.

  23. stackja says:

    ALP has history regarding many people. If ALP is involved in any “events”, I’m skeptical of any reports.

  24. H B Bear says:

    Thank you min. Not going to read this stuff anywhere else (probably a you too Snic at this point).

  25. Roger says:

    If this is the case who does one give this information in order to have it investigated especially in relation to her death .

    Min,

    If the SA coroner decides to hold an inquiry or inquest into the woman’s death you can send your information to his office. A coroner has a duty to consider any information that might be relevant to the case before him/her. In this instance the woman’s mental health and treatment will obviously be a major consideration.

  26. thefrollickingmole says:

    Saw one of the best old latin terms for whats being conducted now.

    Damnatio Memoriae

    They want to erase all trace of Porter.

  27. H B Bear says:

    Roger – that consideration will probably dawn on a few people shortly.

  28. Cui Bono says:

    Exceptional posts appreciated.
    Trouble is, the coroner’s report or any special inquiry will not be adequately reported ‘in the court of public opinion’.
    Barnaby not thinking straight.

  29. H B Bear says:

    Along with the announcement there will be no coronial inquiry.

  30. Roger says:

    Roger – that consideration will probably dawn on a few people shortly.

    Much to their chagrin, it is hoped.

    Along with the announcement there will be no coronial inquiry.

    Surely not, after Maladroit Blight Trumble Esquire’s big call!?

  31. Arky says:

    These impossible to prove or disprove allegations will basically damage this man mentally.
    The same thing they did to nobble Kavanaugh.
    It is total bastardry and they know EXACTLY what they are doing with these tactics. Even if the object of the attack remains standing they are irreversibly altered by the experience and will subsequently view the world differently.
    Utterly despicable shit.
    Anyone of good nature will rally behind this man whatever political thoughts they have. You will put aside the allegations, using rationality and logic, you will understand that they are unprovable and unfalsifiable and therefore he is, in my mind, under no more suspicion of a crime than any other person.
    And those who raised this as a political weapon need some fucking consequences for their actions.

  32. candy says:

    Apparently PvO is a close buddy of Porter and they hung out together as young men
    so naturally he supports his mate.

  33. candy says:

    And those who raised this as a political weapon need some fucking consequences for their actions.

    Well this is true, but many people would have liked to see Bill Shorten taken down by the unprovable allegation against him but find the allegation against Porter just an allegation from a “crazy” woman. Indeed Shorten got a very easy run and almost complete protection. If it were say Tony Abbott then – he would have been marched into jail. No doubt 100% his career would have been over.

    Can’t have it both ways. If Porter goes, so should Shorten. If Porter stays, so should Shorten.
    I think that is the outcome. A kind of mutual assured destruction.

  34. min says:

    Not quite the first case it was not only the alleged crime but that drugs and alcohol were distributed to young teenagers .Her witnesses were not interviewed as the police said they could not find them then . They are now available to give evidence.

  35. Arky says:

    Can’t have it both ways. If Porter goes, so should Shorten. If Porter stays, so should Shorten.

    ..
    Is the Shorten accuser deceased?

  36. candy says:

    Is the Shorten accuser deceased?

    Don’t think that makes any difference to what is unprovable, no evidence, no witnesses, a couple alone, no cameras, no text messages. There’s nothing to be achieved by investigations or even a trial now.
    And there is simply no way Porter should stand down if ALP/Shorten sees no reason for their man to stand down.

    It would be different if it were an actual conservative though accused of this crime. Kelly, Joyce, Abbott previously. Then we would really see a trial by media and colleagues shunning them, and PvO would march them to jail personally and ideas about the “law” would go out the window. It all depends on who the accused is, see.

  37. Russell says:

    Barnaby been “captured” by a planted fembot?

  38. cuckoo says:

    And those who raised this as a political weapon need some f—–g consequences for their actions.

    Indeed, though unlikely to happen. Anyone who is using this case as a political weapon is irredeemable scum. I should feel sorry for Albanese, who I would have thought was above such a thing. I almost sense some kind of shame as he parrots the party line in front of the cameras. But he isn’t secure enough in his position to go against the lynch mob.

  39. min says:

    Candy what does the law say about the person running the camp who allegedly distributed drugs and alcohol to young teenagers? She also told another about what had happened the next day , miscarriage 5 weeks later .

  40. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “cuckoo says:
    March 7, 2021 at 1:30 pm
    And those who raised this as a political weapon need some f—–g consequences for their actions.

    Indeed, though unlikely to happen. Anyone who is using this case as a political weapon is irredeemable scum. I should feel sorry for Albanese, who I would have thought was above such a thing. I almost sense some kind of shame as he parrots the party line in front of the cameras. But he isn’t secure enough in his position to go against the lynch mob.

    I don’t feel sorry for him….Albo is a nasty piece of work, he has always been hard left in his politics, he hides his nastiness behind a likable “working class” demeaner. This all suits him. However I reckon that the driving force behind this toxic campaign are K D Wong, Skank Keneally and Plibbersuk.

  41. Joanna Smythe says:

    There are a lot of people supporting and fighting for the truth for Porter here on the Cat. It would be amazing, unbelievable and totally surprising if any of his colleagues in the Liberal Party were to do the same and especially his boss Scott Morrison but that will never happen because they have their own careers to think of and they have no spine.

  42. vicki says:

    It is total bastardry and they know EXACTLY what they are doing with these tactics.

    Dead right, Arky. This is what is particularly infuriating and frustrating.

    It was all my husband and I could do to watch the vengeful and spiteful performance of Katherine Murphy this morning on Insiders. This is a determined hatchet job by some. Annabel Crabbe appeared to be traumatised – not sure whether it was recognition of the enormity of what was happening, or sympathy for the deceased. PVO recognised the astounding implications of the denial of the presumption of innocence, but seemed to support an inquiry. It is a nightmare that I can hardly believe is happening.

    I can’t believe that this issue will divide the community in the proportion of the same sex marriage debate. My reading of the public response is that women, as well as men, will draw the line at upending due process to satisfy extreme feminists and woke men.

  43. H B Bear says:

    Off the record – the Prof’s wife was at UWA law school about the same time as Porter and possibly an anthropomorphic bear.

  44. H B Bear says:

    Joanna at 1.39pm – most of the Lieborals are probably just pleased it is not them.

    Any unity of purpose or effort from the Lieboral Party evaoporated years ago. Now anything less than outright opposition is a start. It is a broad church don’t forget.

  45. Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus says:

    Thanks Steve, yes voi che sapete is very salient

  46. Mike Ryan says:

    Mr Porter had boasted he would be prime minister one day and need a “smart, pretty wife” to help his career.


    .

    Solid advice from Porter’s “muse”?
    Behind every successful politician….
    On a positive note. At least the expression “rule-of-law” is being used again. I’m pretty down with mob rule these days.

  47. Mike Ryan says:

    [She waited 30 years to tell him?]

    Coincidently, after the suppressed memory “treatment” that rebirthed the misplaced memory of this alleged attack.

  48. calli says:

    Can’t have it both ways. If Porter goes, so should Shorten. If Porter stays, so should Shorten.

    Ahhh. Now we get to the nub of it.

    Because both cases are the same. Not.

    I wondered when it would be spelt out so plainly here. And I’m not surprised one bit.

  49. Rob says:

    Annabel Crabb’s uncharacteristic and stuttering delivery on Insiders today seemed odd.
    Someone said “traumatised”.
    What could traumatise Annabel?

  50. Squirrel says:

    To continue the Italianate theme, one of these at Parliament House in Canberra might simplify things –

    https://universes.art/en/art-destinations/venice/museums/palazzo-ducale/11

  51. min says:

    As I have been retired for many years I thought it would be wise to research the latest information on EMDR therapy. Training in Sydney must have been in early 90s as Dr Shapiro had only formulated and developed this method of treatment in 1989 . Much more research has been carried out over the years and the protocols for the stages of treatment refined . Warnings about using it with dissociative disorders are still outlined as well as advising that the therapy should not be used if the patient/ client was not stable and grounded or if drugs, alcohol or medications to dull feelings were being used .
    As of 2018 in USA it was stated that most clinicians are not trained in the treatment of dissociative disorders which is why screening is a must.
    No one back when I trained would have up to date training for dissociative disorders and I doubt whether clinicians here would be better trained than the clinicians in the States are today.
    Given the issues the complainant had been suffering, the liklihood of being on medication and her admission of not being grounded and stable and that she dissociated during police interviews I hope that this was not the result of thr psychological treatment she underwent previously.
    An inquiry should include an investigation into her mental well being and whether her condition was exacerbated recent treatment.

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