What they said: “We need to listen to the experts”

Last year:

Today:

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33 Responses to What they said: “We need to listen to the experts”

  1. H B Bear says:

    Flatten the curve.

  2. John Brumble says:

    Jesus. How the hell can a Professor of Economics (Hamilton) not understand why a supplier would want to stop a large customer from sharing stock with a smaller customer? It beggars belief that someone who is supposed to be an expect can be so out of touch with basic commercial practice and still retain any respect at all.

    (But if course he does know, just as he knows that the audience he’s playing up for can’t accept the answer if they did know it).

  3. Albatross says:

    IFL Science!

  4. Boxcar says:

    “urge the government to work closely with public health experts”

    The “public health experts” have been at the mercy of their respective governments since Day one. They have NOTHING constructive to offer.

  5. Mark M says:

    Perhaps the “experts” have a back flipping contest going.

    Here is a 10 out of 10 back flip, degree of difficulty; easy for some …

    “In the United States, people should not be walking around with masks.”
    – Anthony Fauci.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zU-ANfg83f4

  6. Delta says:

    It’s all BS really. This picture says it all.

  7. Sinclair Davidson says:

    John Brumble – not sure what point you’re trying to make.

    PS – Hamilton is an assistant Professor not Professor. That’s the American equivalent of level B Lecturer.

  8. Pyrmonter says:

    Not those experts!

    —-

    More seriously, there are good questions to be asked about what is obscured in modern, short form communication techniques. It’s become very easy to find incongruous quotes; even to find people who say or write things they cannot possibly believe in the terms expressed (‘no trade offs …’ per Holden, et al), but some, at least, of that must be down to the medium.

  9. Fair Shake says:

    I recall Feb-Apr 2020 when people suggested wearing masks like they do in Japan when people have a cold. Made sense to me. Dandrews and his cohorts bellowed masks were not going to do a thing. Then comes Late April May and there is a mad panic by Andrew’s and media to get masks …in fact we had to wear them in the parks, the open everywhere.
    It became clear the experts had no idea and our political leaders had plenty of ideas …mostly sh!t.

  10. Sinclair Davidson says:

    … but some, at least, of that must be down to the medium.

    Those quotes are extracted from twitter threads. So not a limited number of characters – but a full blown argument that had been twitterised. Those guys were very aggressive across opeds and subsequent twitter threads against anyone – especially Gigi Foster – who tried to make an argument that there was a framework that economists routinely use to evaluate these sorts of things.

  11. Pyrmonter says:

    @ Doomlord

    How long is the longest Twitter thread, a few thousand characters?

    The treatment handed out to Foster was a disgrace; I say that as someone who still disagrees with her (and most here …).

  12. Roger says:

    The “public health experts” have been at the mercy of their respective governments since Day one.

    It’s the other way around – once the emergency public health measures legislated by the various state parliaments over the last decade or so were activated, the state CMOs/CHOs assumed quite draconian powers, including the authority to impose lockdowns, mandatory mask wearing, limits on gatherings, etc. The politicians, of course, have manipulated this to their own electoral advantage, particularly in QLD & WA.

  13. John Brumble says:

    Hey Sinc,

    In a related Tweet, the good Assoc. Prof said:
    https://twitter.com/SHamiltonian/status/1379634371137843200

    And my immediate thought was ‘no, if you had any real-world experience at all, you’d know that “the contracts the Trump administration signed with the vaccine manufacturers prohibit the US from sharing its surplus doses with the rest of the world” because the US volumes attract must more attractive pricing structures and the vaccine manufacturers didn’t want to become their own de-facto competitor in lower-volume regions.”

    But then my second thought was “well of course he knows this, but I bet he also knows that the Twitter mob would look at a perfectly reasonable commercial position and declare ‘everybodies musts have da vaccines for cheap!! Die [email protected]'”

  14. Sinclair Davidson says:

    How long is the longest Twitter thread, a few thousand characters?

    Heh – I’m not going to count the characters. The first thread is Hamilton simply reproducing the infamous economists’ letter from last year. So I think it fully expresses his views.

    On another note, I wonder how many of those economists are still employed this year?

  15. Sinclair Davidson says:

    John Brumble – okay. Different point.

  16. John Brumble says:

    Goes to motive yer’onour

  17. Sinclair Davidson says:

    Maybe – but you’re being a bit harsh.

  18. Damon says:

    I still like the quip I first heard as a schoolboy ‘an x is an unknown quantity, and a spurt is a drip under pressure’. It is even more relevant today.

  19. Pyrmonter says:

    @ John Brumble

    The Trump Administration bowed to protectionist/isolationist pressures (and Biden will do the same, at least until the US reaches a ‘vaccine surplus’, something I gather is in prospect next month). Is that news?

    Plenty of people didn’t like Trump: I don’t think even the most ardent conspiracy theorists here think he won the popular vote, and even on the ‘Right’ there were any number of high profile opponents (see my posts re-posts here of material from Mankiw and Scott Sumner for examples). Judging someone’s arguments by their ‘tribal’ membership is something many used to disdain among the Left; that the practice has spread further is not a sign of the advance of civilisation.

    @ Sinc

    In terms of unemployed economists: I’m wondering whether we shouldn’t wait to assess the outcome until, as the song goes, ‘the dealing’s done’: places that seemed 6 months ago to have shown the advantages of decentralized, agile healthcare and social cohesion supporting non-pharmaceutical control measures like Germany have managed to do appallingly over the northern winter; while socialist basket-cases (the UK) seem to have pulled rabbits out of the hat with industrial-scale vaccination (something we have signally failed at).

    So far, the employment experience here (outside Victoria) hasn’t been so bad; we’ll see in 12 months or so whether that is sustained; and whether the US, UK and elsewhere ‘bounce back’, or continue to moulder.

  20. John Brumble says:

    What the hell are you talking about Pyrmonter? Your Trump derangement is showing.

    Look, it’s quite simple. There is a very obvious commercial reason that vaccine suppliers don’t want high-volume nations sharing stock with low-volume nations. So either the good Assoc. Prof doesn’t understand basic commercial pressures, or he’s being disingenuous. I’ve gone with the later for him, but for you I choose the former.

  21. Pyrmonter says:

    @ John Brumble

    I took your comment to be directed at Hamilton’s views on Trump – if not, apologies.

    What’s wrong with international price discrimination? And how long will the opportunity to exercise it persist? None of the US manufacturers is a monopolist: one great advantage of patent-based innovation is that there are now several competing vaccines, and there will, in a few months, be a good deal of ‘excess capacity’ in the US. That will, hopefully, mitigate the woeful performance seen here by our national pharma champion and the state and federal pharmaceutical procurement and distribution systems.

  22. John Brumble says:

    I was neither talking about a Trump policy (except by accidental association) nor *international* price discrimination. I was talking about volume price discrimination, which is very, very clearly the driver behind those agreements. But this is off topic and
    probably a conversation for the Open Thread. I’ll stop the hi-jacking now.

  23. Boambee John says:

    So far, the employment experience here (outside Victoria) hasn’t been so bad; we’ll see in 12 months or so whether that is sustained; and whether the US, UK and elsewhere ‘bounce back’, or continue to moulder.

    If the immigration and “student” (permanent residence) Ponzi schemes are not re-started, employment should stay strong for at least that period.

  24. Roger says:

    If the immigration and “student” (permanent residence) Ponzi schemes are not re-started, employment should stay strong for at least that period.

    Along with wage growth.

    Expect an “immigration led recovery” as soon as the third world is vaccinated.

  25. Alan says:

    “We need to listen to the experts”
    Queensland Health Minister – Freudian slip?

  26. Delta:
    For those who don’t go to the link, here’s a graph:
    What it is saying is that masks make the disease worse!

  27. Squirrel says:

    The full Twitter comment from today is interesting, and might (kindly) be seen as an example of Churchill’s line that “when facts change, I change my mind”.

    It might also have something to do with Steven Hamilton’s role in the Blueprint Institute, which involves an interesting cast of characters –

    https://www.blueprintinstitute.org.au/our_people

    and which might (pardon the shocking cynicism) be seen simply as a renewables lobby outfit, with a bit of window-dressing – although some of the latter is encouraging –

    “State Governments are often better placed to understand the needs of residents than Federal bureaucrats in Canberra.”

    and

    “Fiscal imbalance fundamentally undermines States’ sovereignty and their ability to engage in ambitious reform. It also reduces the ability of the States to respond to citizen interests (which differ from State to State) as accurately as possible – which is the whole point of federalism.”

    Both quotes from the Blueprint for the National Cabinet – 9 June 2020 on this page –
    https://www.blueprintinstitute.org.au/our_research#blueprint_papers – which does look a bit like a retrospective wish-list put together by former holder(s) of high national office.

  28. Epicurious says:

    Winston Smith says:
    April 7, 2021 at 8:31 pm
    Delta:
    For those who don’t go to the link, here’s a graph:
    What it is saying is that masks make the disease worse!

    Interesting that they always refer to cases but what is a case? Is it simply a +ve result from a PCR test? If so then it is a useless number as we all know how useless this test is. So what is a case?

  29. egg_ says:

    the state CMOs/CHOs assumed quite draconian powers, including the authority to impose lockdowns, mandatory mask wearing, limits on gatherings, etc.

    Hence, the “zigzag” path out of lockdown, according to CHO Kerry Chant.

  30. gavalanche says:

    masks are optional in qld, according to health officer…if you have asthma, heart disease, if masks make your health worse, don’t wear them….2 days ago…and maybe she in trouble for this piece of rational compassion…btw most people still wearing masks – i outta here soon…no future for the cities

  31. Texas Jack says:

    Forget COVID, it’s so 2020 – now we have the BCA toying with forcing ETHNICITY TARGET FFS…….

  32. Kneel says:

    “Flatten the curve.”

    Don’t forget the “L”! I think someone forgot the “L”…

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