Speedbox: Covid roulette – Australia lost

In the world of covid roulette, there are three broad choices in dealing with the disease.

The first choice is the ‘do nothing’ and let the disease roll through your population.  Kind of like the Swedish model which is a variant that attempts to protect the elderly and those who are compromised with co-morbidities.  The Swedes took some other measures (social distancing etc) but were more ‘hands off’ than virtually every other country.  Despite their efforts, a number of elderly or ill have died and the death rate per million is relatively high compared to most of the world.   Despite that, a significant number of Swedes agree with the government’s handling of covid.

The second choice is to ‘manage’ the infection.  This is also called ‘flattening the curve’ and accepts that some will die but the health system will cope for the majority.  The important factor is management – meaning that the government accept that the disease will impact the population and restrictions, of varying severity, are imposed from time to time to try and exert some downward pressure over the rate of infection.  It is a balancing act to accept significant societal and economic disruption without adopting either a hands-off approach or imposing debilitating totalitarian restrictions.  This is particularly relevant in Europe given its history and porous borders.  That approach also acknowledges that a moderately high percentage of the population will be asymptomatic and/or will have little adverse reaction to the disease when infected.   Coupled with an eventual vaccine, the economic and population damage will be somewhat less but is effectively accepting the premature death of some.  In the broadest sense, this is the classic ‘pro bono’ approach – for the greater good.

The third choice is what Australia eventually went for.  Originally, Australia took the ‘flatten the curve’ second choice but when it appeared that there was an opportunity to eliminate the virus, the government pounced.  Unfortunately, they didn’t think it through.

As a consequence of our geography, Covid did not do a lot of damage initially.  We had some deaths but prior to the Victorian nursing home debacle, and since, deaths have been quite rare.  With increasingly emboldened governments reinforced by the local police and a compliant media browbeating the population, movement restrictions were ramped up to the point that elimination became a viable proposition.   And it came to pass, like NZ and a handful of South Pacific nations, Covid has been effectively eliminated from our shores.

It didn’t have to be this way of course.  Many Cats and others wrote, emailed or telephoned their elected representatives and the media with reasonable and thought-out alternative options that were, generally, a hybrid of choices one and two.   Regardless, the government pressed ahead and therein lies our problem – we are now totally reliant on a vaccine.  Our population is defenceless with virtually no broad exposure to the disease and the full cost of our global isolation is yet to become apparent.  We know that Covid has cost the Treasury some $580Bn and counting, but that is just the known measurable cost to date.

The most recent debacle of vaccine availability and rollout displays our vulnerability with the Astra Zeneca version effectively withdrawn from the bulk of the population.  Yet, whilst we await the Pfizer or Novavax versions at the end of the year, the world moves on.   As of 10th April, the UK had vaccinated 48% of their population, the USA 35%, Canada 19% whilst Germany, Austria and Belgium are all around 18% and growing quickly.   Australia is 0.6%.

Our governments thought they were terribly clever and that our isolation was our greatest asset.  Other than some recalcitrants at the Catallaxy Files and a few other websites, they managed to cower the bulk of the population with little effort and their mission was a resounding success.

But was it?  Australia bet on the vaccine saving us yet it is probable the majority of the population will not be vaccinated for another year, at best.  With Australia effectively marooned into the foreseeable future, what remains to be seen is the extent of the fiscal and social disruption awaiting us as the months tick by.

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139 Responses to Speedbox: Covid roulette – Australia lost

  1. John Brumble says:

    Your options 1 and 2 seem lacking in any specific details and if you want to include Sweden as an example of 1, I’m not seeing any difference between them at all.

  2. duncanm says:

    I’m reminded of various papers which analysed 1918 and post-1918 flu deaths amongst the islands of the Pacific.

    Summary
    Very few Pacific islands escaped the 1918–1919 influenza pandemic. Subsequent influenza epidemics in the established colonial outposts of American Samoa and New Caledonia infected many but killed very few persons whereas the extraordinarily isolated Niue, Rotuma, Jaliut and Yule islands experienced high mortality influenza epidemics (>3% of population) following 1918. These dichotomous outcomes indicate that previous influenza exposure and degree of epidemiological isolation were important mortality risk factors during influenza epidemics on Pacific islands.

  3. Boxcar says:

    All of a sudden, immunity statistics are becoming available, to demonstrate the effectiveness of the experimental vaccines.
    It’s telling that those numbers have never been available before, but given prior years flu, I think Australia was/will be largely saved by it’s previous exposure.

  4. Mother Lode says:

    Our governments thought they were terribly clever and that our isolation was our greatest asset.

    People in show business are notorious (assured of their genius by their staff and other hangers on) for making the most inane pronouncements without the faintest suspicion they are not especially bright.

    And politics is show business for ugly people.

  5. feelthebern says:

    But what about the children?
    Won’t someone think of the children?

  6. Fair Shake says:

    Scomo said this morning we need to view Wuflu as similar to the flu. We manage the risk accordingly. Talk about a day late and a dollar short, although this time it’s 12 months and $1 trillion.

  7. Ragu says:

    what remains to be seen

    Well, parliament is getting a bit behind in the Liars Party metric of more bills passed = awesome government
    Watch this space https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Lists/Details_page?blsId=legislation%2Fbillslst%2Fbillslst_c203aa1c-1876-41a8-bc76-1de328bdb726

  8. max says:

    By definition, a true pandemic causes a high degree of mortality (death).

    3 million dead in the world from covid

    number of people = 7.8 billion

    no pandemic at all.

  9. Botswana O'Hooligan says:

    Forget about this non event for a moment in a cynics viewpoint and think about our constitution instead. Is the national Cabinet constitutional, closing State Borders under section 92 constitutional, preventing International travel constitutional? The politicians using medical people, some of the medics not to bright else they would be in private practice making a motza, as the government authority and as handy scapegoats when things go mammaries up, are using this basic non event as an excuse to trash the constitution and turn our country into a modern version of mother Russia. The sad fact of life is that the majority agree with government and will be willing participants of the new “Australia Card,” one modelled on the Russian Propiska. We don’t know what the death toll would have been and in fact will be when logic dictates that life must return to normal but what is worse, a Russian type Marxists Leninism and all that entails, or another possible thousand deaths of the elderly like myself and a robust democracy that will last for another few centuries. I prefer democracy myself, and so should everyone else.

  10. Roger W says:

    Don’t know of any nation that went for option 2 – they all seemed to gleefully move from flattening the curve to draconian shut-downs with variations of the Stasi as the new model for police forces around the world.
    At least with us being slow in the roll-out of the vaccine, the rest of the world can be the guinea pigs. New types of medications normally have a 5 to 10 year development period. The new vaccines have had a 5 to 10 month development period, with governments and the media keen to minimize criticism. Even with AstraZenica, I suspect the main motivation in attacking it is coming from those who will profit from more expensive vaccines, or from political motivations, for example with the EU wanting to attack the UK because of Brexit.

  11. John Bayley says:

    Too many words and it could all be summarised in a lot simpler manner.

    Namely that all the ‘authorities’ needed to do was stick with their own ‘pandemic plans’, which without exception stipulated that quarantining everyone, closing the borders, lockdowns, masks etc, etc. at best do not work and at worst are much worse than the actual disease.

    It is not actually true that Sweden has had significantly worse outcomes than the rest of the world. Their overall mortality has been within normal annual variance and, assuming the various countries’ ‘covid deaths’ statistics are believable – a big IF – they have done better than the likes of UK, Belgium etc, which went full-on totalitarian in their approach.

    We knew by August that there were very effective, cheap treatments available – just search for the interview with Professor Thomas Borody for proof.

    We also knew by the northern autumn that the WuFlu presents much less of a danger to the vast majority of the population than many of the recurring flu strains.

    So the only reasonable solution to the entire ‘crisis’ would have been to isolate the very old or otherwise infirm and do nothing else whatsoever. Just like Belarus and a few others did.

    To subsequently push experimental vaccines, including now trying to vaccinate kids as young as 6 (!) as some kind of a universal salvation is not just unjustified. It is outright criminal.

    And if you think AUS/NZ have, or will have, via the vaccines, ‘eliminated’ ConVid-1984, you are dreaming.

  12. Lizzi55 says:

    True there is no pandemic.
    Odds to get a blood clot are 1 in 350,000
    Gov says under 50s are at more risk to clots than to covid
    This means the risk of covid is less than 1 in 350,000
    i.e. There is no risk and there is no need for a vaccine

  13. luke73 says:

    By definition, a true pandemic causes a high degree of mortality (death).

    3 million dead in the world from covid

    number of people = 7.8 billion

    no pandemic at all.

    Putting aside the fact that many people wo have ‘recovered’ from Covid 19 are reporting ongoing and debilitating ill health….What percentage or number of deaths would there need to be for you to accept it is a pandemic?

    Should Governments put aside mitigation efforts until a satisfactory number of deaths is reached and it can then correctly be called a pandemic?

  14. Kneel says:

    https://justthenews.com/accountability/media/desantis-and-doctors-accuse-media-big-tech-hiding-harm-covid-restrictions


    DeSantis and doctors accuse media, Big Tech of hiding harm from COVID restrictions

    Second roundtable follows YouTube’s removal of his first COVID-19 discussion with Stanford, Harvard medical experts.

    Follow the science*

    *but only what big-tech says is OK.

  15. John A says:

    We had some deaths but prior to the Victorian nursing home debacle

    First, it was a (repeated) quarantine hotels debacle, an entirely government-created disaster, and for which nobody was held accountable. Then it became a nursing homes debacle, again a government-created disaster.

  16. Tim Neilson says:

    What percentage or number of deaths would there need to be for you to accept it is a pandemic?

    Maybe enough to show a statistically significant excess mortality?

    Should Governments put aside mitigation efforts until a satisfactory number of deaths is reached and it can then correctly be called a pandemic?

    Are you implying that max suggested that? He didn’t.

    In any case the answer to your question is “of course not”. Each year flu vaccines are made available without waiting to see whether there’s a “pandemic”.

    But what is clear is that “mitigation efforts” shouldn’t be pursued if they cause more damage than what’s being mitigated. Take, for example, the optometrists’ report that the proportion of young children in Australia diagnosed as short-sighted around the end of 2020 was over 20% rather than the normal just over 5%. The optometrists said that that’s irreversible, and that it was caused by a distortion in the children’s exposure to long and medium vision compared to short range vision as a consequence of the lockdown.
    True, being short-sighted is not especially debilitating but it’s undesirable, and “mitigation efforts” by Maximum Leader et hoc generis have inflicted it on about 15% of a whole cohort of Australians.
    Then there’s the taxpayer-funded advertising campaigns which effectively admit that the “mitigation efforts” have caused a huge increase in domestic violence, alcoholism and other problems.
    The point made by max is therefore an important one – fake hysteria about a “pandemic” is conducive to political opportunists like Maximum Leader wanting to be seen to “do something” and causing totally unnecessary damage.

  17. Slim Cognito says:

    If Aussies remain largely unvaccinated and survive on our little island while the rest of the world perishes from either Covid or it’s supposed cure, we can then begin to move out into the world, facing little resistance, and take over the world in our own right. It is our eventual destiny.

    I think there is a movie plot in there somewhere.

  18. jupes says:

    Great post Speedy. We are being ruled by morons.

    Despite their efforts, a number of elderly or ill have died and the death rate per million is relatively high compared to most of the world.

    Not really. Sweden is coming in at number 28 (and falling) at the minute.

  19. Greg J says:

    There was of course a 4th choice. One which will likely be found to be the most sensible choice: Treatment with HCQ or Ivermectin. This has been known since April 2020.

    Of course, this is not the choice which was taken. Reprehensibly, various state governments prohibited these treatments as soon as they were raised as a serious alternative, and pushed for the billion dollar experimental gene therapy, which is clearly going wrong.

  20. Karabar says:

    The “advirus vector” vector products (they are not “vaccines”) J&J and AstraZeneca have this nasty blood clot issue.
    The Pfizer and Moderna Mrna gene therapies (and definitely NOT vaccines) had a nasty habit in animal trials of resulting in death IN EVERY CASE when the guinea pig is exposed to the wild virus. “Antibody dependent Enhancement) causes a cytokine storm and lyour immune system eats your liver.
    So if this whole sordid issue is delayed for sseveral months until the “death by vaccine” stats really add up in the rest of the world, it may well turn out that Australia is indeed the “lucky country”. When your immune system has a “effectifity” of 99.9% it is a bit foolish to foist experimental gene tampering on the entire population.

  21. rickw says:

    So the Australian Governments are a bunch of incompetent imbeciles incapable of thinking things through.

    Who’d have guessed?!

  22. Greg J says:

    I also think that Australia’s utter incompetence in rolling out its vaccine, will ultimately by pure accident and incompetence, be found to have protected its population better than any of the other western states, which allowed most of their populations to be injected with this experimental shit.

  23. Rabbi Putin says:

    @Tim

    the jump in childhood shortsightedness was Dans eve il attempt to turn the nations children into him.

  24. mh says:

    Australia bet on the vaccine saving us yet it is probable the majority of the population will not be vaccinated for another year, at best. With Australia effectively marooned into the foreseeable future, …

    lol

  25. ACTOldFart says:

    Slim Cognito at 1:10:

    . . . while the rest of the world perishes from either Covid or it’s supposed cure, we can . . . take over the world in our own right.

    I think the Chinese have already thought of that one

  26. Tim Neilson says:

    Good post Speedbox, but there’s another issue that I think is worth looking at.
    How likely is it that Australia would have suffered severely if we’d done nothing (except protect the elderly and other vulnerable groups)?

    It looks to me that the vast majority of places in the world that have suffered severely from the Chicom virus have at least one of three factors:
    1. Being a dysfunctional third world shithole with next to no effective health system and a large proportion of the population already suffering serious health problems.
    2. Being freezing cold – not just the overnight low dipping below zero for half an hour two or three times in winter, but seriously below freezing for lengthy periods of time. Look at Europe – big numbers in the first few months of 2020, then virtually nothing over summer, then problems again as winter came on.
    3. A population skewed extraordinarily towards the elderly, e.g. Florida, which is America’s retirement village and so has total numbers that aren’t great (even though demographic for demographic they’ve done excellently without totalitarianism).

    Australia has “none of the above”. (Our governments are working on implementing 1. but it will take them a few years yet.) There might be a few hot spots, like the Gold Coast with its elderly population, or indigenous communities with their self-inflicted third world lifestyles, but by and large we just don’t have the apparent risk factors.

    What does seem clear is that there’s negligible if any correlation between more drastic oppression and better epidemiological outcomes. It seems highly likely that we’ve been “protected” from a threat that was nowhere near great enough to justify what’s been done to us.

    .

  27. Rabbi Putin says:

    I have to say overall I disagree with this article. It seems like the author has cherry picked the most optimistic data from outside Australia combined with the most pessimistic from within Australia.

    I have several family/friends across Europe and North America. They too have copped multiple lockdowns and are miserable. Social disruption has been massive and ongoing. And even with vaccines being rolled out, the goalposts keep getting shifted on what the parameters for “a return to normal” would be.

    Australia had a sound strategy. Total shut-down of external borders in order to preserve freedoms within those borders. It’s been mostly effective. Where it’s gone wrong has mainly been due to incompetence and paranoia that has led to over-policing in certain regards, as well as the helicopter money and the distorted thinking that creates.

    If it wasn’t for dïckhed Dan and his ALP mafia-state we as a nation would look very good.

  28. Tim Neilson says:

    the jump in childhood shortsightedness was Dans eve il attempt to turn the nations children into him.

    Watch out for the spate of hunched shoulders caused by stooping over computers for too long…

  29. Rabbi Putin says:

    I’m investing long in Scoliosis/spinal treatment clinics!

  30. Judge Dredd says:

    Australia is 0.6% [vaccinated against COVID]

    Good. There are less retards than I originally thought. The vast majority of people haven’t failed the stupid test by taking the not-vaccine. It sounds as though people have logically worked out the falsehood;
    1) People like Bill Gates who are pushing the vax, openly want to depopulate the planet.
    2) The vax manufacturer have applied for an exemption against any lawsuits and any damage their vaccines do.

    Australia bet on the vaccine saving us

    Saving against what is effectively a bad flu? Saving us against something that is only a concern for the very very old and those who are morbidly fat?
    There is nothing to be saved from apart from people’s own blindness.

  31. sfw says:

    Rabbi Puti, I lost $35k last year and total gov compensation was $3k so I’m $32k in the hole that I’ll never get back, especially at 65yo. You say that the gov did good, well how about you compensating me for the loss of hard earned $? How much did you lose? You appear not to have considered the costs of their actions even more so the cost to individuals on lost education, opportunities, socialising I could go on but it’s a long list and many people will never get their losses back much less get in front.

  32. Mark M says:

    The 2010 sars event during Obama/Biden was a practice run …

    “The article, published on Feb 5, 2010, originally appeared in Forbes.
    It was removed sometime mid 2020 with no explanation.”

    This link has the web archive link, and has reproduced the article in full for posterity:

    Why the WHO faked a pandemic

    https://evidencenotfear.com/why-the-who-faked-a-pandemic-forbes/

  33. Matt says:

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If we knew with a high degree of certainty that we would have effective vaccines by the start of 2021, then it might have been feasible to attempt to manage the virus until the vaccine came along (that’s still a big IF though – assuming a level of competence in managing the impacts). And it would still have resulted in economic, social and health costs.

  34. Roger says:

    Despite their efforts, a number of elderly or ill have died and the death rate per million is relatively high compared to most of the world.

    When considering the Swedish response it should be noted that certain ethnic groups in low socio-economic communities suffered greater morbidity & mortality from covid than the mainstream population.

  35. luke73 says:

    fake hysteria about a “pandemic” is conducive to political opportunists like Maximum Leader wanting to be seen to “do something” and causing totally unnecessary damage.

    Ok, so the WHO, CDC, our DoH, the dictionary etc. define a pandemic as;
    “an outbreak of a disease that occurs over a wide geographic area (i.e. multiple countries or continents) and typically affects a significant proportion of the population.”

    So the quibble seems to be over the definition of what defines a “significant proportion” of the population?

    I would say that most reasonable people would consider 31 million cases and 563,000 deaths in the U.S, 13.7 million cases and 355,000 deaths in Brazil (probably an undercount like India, Mexico and other less developed countries) and 4.37 million cases and 127,000 deaths in the U.K (to name but three countries and in a bit over 12 months) constitutes a “significant proportion”.

  36. Roger says:

    If it wasn’t for dïckhed Dan and his ALP mafia-state we as a nation would look very good.

    That should never be forgotten.

  37. H B Bear says:

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    Go back and look at was posted last year. And then fuck off.

  38. Matt says:

    Do you mean posted by all the vaccine experts here? Who said we would definitely have a vaccine by the end of 2020? And who are now actively advocating against the vaccine. Sure.

  39. Harpo says:

    Great summary of the unintended consequences of excessive caution.

  40. Tim Neilson says:

    Ok, so the WHO, CDC, our DoH, the dictionary etc. define a pandemic as;
    “an outbreak of a disease that occurs over a wide geographic area (i.e. multiple countries or continents) and typically affects a significant proportion of the population.”

    I suppose it depends in part on what’s meant by “affects”. Vast numbers of people testing positive but experiencing negligible symptoms could be said to be “affected” I suppose. Likewise 95 year old terminal cancer patients and victims of shootings and motorcycle accidents who test positive at the autopsy and are recorded as COVID deaths could be said to have been “affected”. Presumably on that definition every year we have flu and common cold “pandemics”, yet we never get the same hysteria about them as we have about the Chicom virus.

  41. John Brumble says:

    Tim –
    I think missing from your #1 and #2 is the need for the population to be quite closely packed. There are plenty of examples where only 1 or 2 apply where COVID has not resulted in larger death rates.

    The effect of forcing everyone else to live the lifestyle that inner-city elites want on the virulence of not only COVID but other diseases is ignored because, well obviously we can’t have anything which might contradict the chosen people. Just like public transport and mass, uncontrolled immigration.

    Who would have thought that large concentrations of a disease and continued close exposure to other sources outside of your own body is bad for you.

  42. Eyrie says:

    Putting aside the fact that many people wo have ‘recovered’ from Covid 19 are reporting ongoing and debilitating ill health…

    How many of them had that before the Coof?

  43. Shy Ted says:

    The numbers are wholly unreliable, as is the testing, as is everything you hear from the media and the public health orders are either ineffective or harmful. Look around you, what do you see? Nothing. Lies from day 1.

  44. John Brumble says:

    And I wonder how much your #3 is also affected by the “close proximity” of other people, since the deaths of older people in large numbers have generally occurred in homes where residents are closer together. It’s far less obvious, of course, because there are any number of other reasons that older people would be more susceptible, but its consistent with the data.

  45. Tim Neilson says:

    Do you mean posted by all the vaccine experts here? Who said we would definitely have a vaccine by the end of 2020? And who are now actively advocating against the vaccine. Sure.

    I think you’re getting yourself very confused here. Did anyone on this site actually pin their opposition to the lockdowns on a prediction of a vaccine panacea by the end of 2020? I don’t think so.

  46. Tim Neilson says:

    John Brumble says:
    April 14, 2021 at 2:19 pm

    Yes I think you’re right. It makes sense that high population density exacerbates the risks. Good thing we’re building all those voting towers here in inner Melbourne to facilitate the immigration-led economic boom that’s just around the corner.

  47. John Brumble says:

    I’m not complaining, of course. Stupid leftist-driven zoning means my house value has done wonderfully well. No use for selling, of course, because I’d have to buy again. But it does give me all sorts of leverage that’s not available to the average worker. Oh, look, why if it isn’t leftist policy doing the exact opposite of what they say its for again.

  48. Matt says:

    Tim – this post is written in the context that Australia pursued an elimination strategy whilst other countries adopted a more relaxed approach, and now they have 30-50% of their population vaccinated (cw <1% for Australia) and so are now much better placed – therefore we were wrong to pursue elimination. That's a different argument to opposing elimation full stop.

  49. duncanm says:

    Rabbi Putin says:
    April 14, 2021 at 1:42 pm

    If it wasn’t for dïckhed Dan and his ALP mafia-state we as a nation would look very good

    For now.

    What happens when we do open up? Will we be like the isolated Pacific Islands in the the post 1918 influenza waves?

  50. Rohan says:

    South Korea did more or less the same as Sweden. Instead of draconian lockdowns, they have remained open. In a population of 51 million, they’ve had 112k infections and 1700 deaths.

    So what they did do, was isolate the infected whether they were sick or not and have a superb contact tracing system which meant that individuals who came into contact were also isolated for 14 days. There was no killing of their economy. No shoving kids under a bus by missing a year of school. No closing of borders except with China. No incescent fear campaign from their politicians.

    It’s worked and worked very well. Just like in Sweden.

  51. yarpos says:

    Excess deaths in Sweden were only mid range in Europe let alone relatively high compared to the rest of the world. Covid death statistics are woolly and subjective at best.

  52. Karabar says:

    Greg J at 1:20 and 1:31.
    RIGHT ON!!!!

  53. John Bayley says:

    With numerous countries’ hospitals receiving substantial government support payments for every ‘Covid case/death’ and with the apparent total disappearance of the seasonal flu, I’d call BS on the ‘500K dead in the USA’ and similar claims.

    A colleague currently stuck in Europe has mentioned in an e-mail that in the Czech Republic, a country subjected to some of the most draconian lockdowns in the world, and yet despite – or rather than because of – some of the worst outcomes, with supposedly more than 30,000 ‘Covid deaths’, the overall mortality per 100,000 population has nevertheless been at about the level of 2009, when they last had a decent flu epidemic there.

    Of course, this year there is ‘no flu’ and, incidentally, the Czech hospitals are apparently getting up to 35K CZK (about the equivalent of full-time average monthly income) per ‘Covid death’ in government money.

    The whole scamdemic has been just a criminal rort, coupled with a power grab by sleazy politicians.

  54. Richard says:

    There has been so much misinformation, or worse, disinformation, that I honestly don’t know what to believe anymore. Are all these big Government/Marxist types taking advantage of the pandemic, or is this a planned script? Is the danger real or is this all just media hype? I ask these questions with genuine curiosity.

    I mean:
    *the ‘great reset’;
    *lockdowns;
    *international and domestic travel restrictions;
    *a gene-altering vaccine against a virus that from all reports has a 99.5%+ survival rate;
    *vaccine passports;
    *constant uninterrupted reporting of it up to and including the testing of waste-water?
    *Media gaslighting (peaceful protests and the like).
    *Social media, ideological fact-checkers, censorship.
    *Drones and traffic cameras used for compliance.
    *Regulating behaviour in our private abodes;
    *Designation of essential and non-essential work;
    *Bans and restrictions of what doctors can prescribe;
    *Mask mandates;
    *emergency powers that are constantly extended;
    *Banning sitting in parks or going to the beach.

    I would argue that the above are responsible for the greatest transfer of wealth from small business to large.

    Are you really a conspiracy theorist if you take in to account our history, as well as the above and perhaps think for a second or two that something malevolent might be at play?

  55. Judge Dredd says:

    Richard – yes, you are right. Something malevolent is at play. It always has been, and always will be.
    There are 2 battles here; one of earthly origin and one of spiritual. What you’ve outlined is the physical representation of that malevolence. Everyone can see it, and hopefully it opens up many people’s eyes that not everything is as it seems on the surface.

  56. Name Provided says:

    Australia has become a Pariah nation. Morrison’s leadership has led the country into a corner that neither he nor the country can break out of easily. Worse still, Australians generally accept all of this “safety” in the most smug, supine and glib manner. An absolute disaster. When a country stops its citizens from leaving, there’s clearly a major problem within.

  57. John Bayley says:

    I would argue that the above are responsible for the greatest transfer of wealth from small business to large.

    Yes, and also from small business to the public sector.
    Big business has got bigger and the public sector has also got bigger & more powerful.
    The rest of us just need to shut up, pay our taxes and line up for ‘the jab’.
    And if we behave, they may give us some form of a universal basic income so we get to enjoy the occasional drink with our soylent green.

  58. John Brumble says:

    Richard and Judge Dredd –
    There doesn’t have to be a vast (or small) conspiracy to explain it. What we have is the natural result of people acting in their own self-interest being willing to justify their own actions and cover their backsides under any and all circumstances.

    We have an excellent example in this of our own Matt on this very page.

  59. Fat Tony says:

    Karabar says:
    April 14, 2021 at 1:22 pm
    The “advirus vector” vector products (they are not “vaccines”) J&J and AstraZeneca have this nasty blood clot issue.
    The Pfizer and Moderna Mrna gene therapies (and definitely NOT vaccines) had a nasty habit in animal trials of resulting in death IN EVERY CASE when the guinea pig is exposed to the wild virus. “Antibody dependent Enhancement) causes a cytokine storm and your immune system eats your liver.

    Ensure all the Western countries are fully “vaccinated” with the Mrna ones, release a suitable virus & the European races are gone – without damage to infrastructure.

    Can’t enslave the white races so exterminate them. The Asians & Africans are much better at accepting slavery.

  60. Richard says:

    There are 2 battles here; one of earthly origin and one of spiritual. What you’ve outlined is the physical representation of that malevolence. Everyone can see it, and hopefully it opens up many people’s eyes that not everything is as it seems on the surface.

    Your Honour,

    May it please the court, I am a simple man and as such, find your ruling a little abstract. If one was to open his eyes, what would he see?

    In all seriousness, I am genuinely curious.

  61. Gorilla Dance Party says:

    This all takes it way more seriously than it deserves to be taken.

    What they should do is remove all restrictions they put in place and ban the media from using the words, “COVID”, “Coronavirus” and the word “pandemic” in relation to those words. Australians will quickly find there is not a problem that anyone should be worried about.

  62. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    we are now totally reliant on a vaccine. Our population is defenceless with virtually no broad exposure to the disease and the full cost of our global isolation is yet to become apparent.

    Vaccinate the over 50’s with the AstraZenica asap. Only way for us to go. Some will die due to it but very few. Use the scarce Pfizer for the under 50 medical personnel only. Those in these categories who don’t wish to be vaccinated can take their chances and trust in better treatments.

    Then open up and let herd immunity develop amongst everyone else. Those really sick, who will be few in the under 50’s, can get good treatments now. Few will die in both categories if we do this. Better than a viral escape and rip away (which could happen any day and will kill hundreds over over 50’s) and eternal rounds of lockdowns for everyone.

    I’ve said here constantly that herd immunity and protecting the weakest, by vaccination if possible, or by isolating them, is the way to go. I signed the Great Barrington Declaration, my epidemiological qualifications SU MPH, which said essentially this. I am also in favour using Ivermectin for those who are ill with Covid or who seek a preventative short-term.

  63. Mango Man says:

    They cocked up the vaccine. Not really a surprise. At least Australia hasn’t had the toll of lives lost that the US and others have seen. I expect the Coalition to run into trouble with the next election and even Albo might prove the drover’s dog case. Very sad demise of government since the time of Howard. One after the other, Lib PMs have been palpably incompetent while the ALP persists in making itself unelectable.
    If you think this situatio is bad, wait until the ecoomic shocks emerge from this flood of cheap money of recent years.

  64. John Bayley says:

    And here is yet another study on just how useless, or even outright dangerous, mask mandates are:

    Facemasks in the COVID-19 era: A health hypothesis.

    Read the whole thing if you’re still in doubt.

    Key summary:

    – “Interestingly, 99% of the detected cases with SARS-CoV-2 are asymptomatic or have mild condition, which contradicts with the virus name (severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus-2)”.

    – “…’the overall clinical consequences of COVID-19 are similar to those of severe seasonal influenza’ [5], having a [true] case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%.”

    – “Due to the difference in sizes between SARS-CoV-2 diameter and facemasks thread diameter (the virus is 1000 times smaller), SARS-CoV-2 can easily pass through any facemask“.

    – “among symptomatic individuals (those with fever, cough, sore throat, runny nose ect…) there was no difference between wearing and not wearing facemask for coronavirus droplets transmission of particles of > 5 μm”

    – “A meta-analysis among health care workers found that compared to no masks, surgical mask and N95 respirators were not effective against transmission of viral infections or influenza-like illness based on six RCTs”.

    – “Based on four COVID-19 studies, the meta-analysis failed to demonstrate risk reduction of facemasks for COVID-19 transmission”.

    – “In addition to hypoxia and hypercapnia, breathing through facemask residues bacterial and germs components on the inner and outside layer of the facemask. These toxic components are repeatedly rebreathed back into the body, causing self-contamination.”

    – “…wearing facemasks causing hypoxic and hypercapnic state that constantly challenges the normal homeostasis, and activates ‘fight or flight’ stress response, an important survival mechanism in the human body.”

    – “Encountering people who wearing facemasks activates innate stress-fear emotion, which is fundamental to all humans in danger or life threating situations”.

  65. m0nty says:

    Speedbox is correct when he identifies geography as a major factor in COVID effects, which is why you can’t credibly compare Sweden to the UK but you should compare them most accurately to their neighbouring Scandinavian countries – and on that latter score, their initial laissez-faire COVID response was an horrific failure.

    The “most recent debacle of vaccine availability and rollout”, which is completely attributable to the arrogant incompetence of the Morrison government, is unrelated to the issue of lockdowns which were state matters. You can’t criticise anyone but Morrison for the lack of vaccine distribution. It’s not Andrews’ fault, or Berejiklian’s fault, or any of the Premiers who implemented restrictions. Don’t fudge the issue.

  66. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Australians will quickly find there is not a problem that anyone should be worried about.

    There is a problem, it is worrying because it is a viral vascular disease not an influenza, we do need a reliable vaccine eventually, but it is seriously overplayed in the media. Most people are not at risk. Herd immunity will take care of a lot of it. It will settle into background prevalence, like polio used to be.

    Currently, Australia is a sitting duck, over-reliant on vaccination.
    Step up the over 50’s AZ vaccinations now for those willing.

  67. John Bayley says:

    Some will die due to it but very few.

    And just how do you know that, given what we know of the past, uniformly failed, attempts at CV vaccines?

    Your choice, by all means, but let’s not pretend that it is in any way desirable to ‘vaccinate the over 50s ASAP’.

    In fact, considering the very effective, cheap and safe alternatives, I would say there is no reason whatsoever to vaccinate anyone, unless they want it themselves, and unless they have been properly informed first with regards to the actual risk/rewards. And by that I mean real information, not the usual fear p0rn.

  68. m0nty says:

    It will settle into background prevalence, like polio used to be.

    I can cough puddles?

  69. Faye says:

    It isn’t medical, it is political. The creators of the “pandemic” – China, Globalists, Multinational Corporations, Big Tech, Media, Democrats, Marxists, Soros and the like – deserve an Oscar for pulling off the globe’s biggest confidence trick seen in our lifetime. So far the history of COVID-19 stinks to high heaven so why would anyone trust their unproven vaccines?

  70. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Making AZ in Australia caused holdups in manufacturing, not necessarily due to anything Morrison did or could have done. Putting all eggs into AZ manufacture here was both a good and bad move. Pfizer also didn’t deliver what they said they would when they should have. So Pfizer, which all over 50’s were to get first, just didn’t arrive. Then AZ went into manufacturing holes that took time to get batches approved. Now people are scared of AZ at any age, given the adverse publicity. And we have nothing else – yet. Hard to see what else Morrison could have done when he was held up with vaccine arrivals here.

    The distribution issues were and are still a problem. No clear guidelines for all States to follow, and some of them were cats wandering from the herding anyway.

    Mass vax clinics should have been implemented especially in urban areas as in the US regardless of what our six States thought about that. A lot of people simply do not have a ‘regular’ GP and delivery to GP Clinics in many areas would always be logistically more difficult than to the Council Chambers for use in the Community Hall with previously trained and ready to hire vax personnel waiting.

  71. Albatross says:

    Matt says:
    April 14, 2021 at 2:11 pm

    He specifically told you to fuck off mate.

  72. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    I can cough puddles?

    Very droll, M0nty. Polio vaccination was long sought and effective modes took years to arrive. The same will probably apply to Covid, especially as it evolves. We can expect a background level of it, as with polio until very recent times. I recall polio epidemics in my youth and even my adolescence (because I am very old).

    We’ve already ‘coughed puddles’. It was called tuberculosis, and it killed millions. We jump those puddles now.

  73. Albatross says:

    Dot says:
    April 14, 2021 at 6:46 am
    I don’t care about anyone in this story.

    Hard to argue with this summary.

  74. Albatross says:

    Feck. Wrong ‘fred.

  75. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Giving people on the dole a $50 taxi bonus if they need transport to get a Covid shot would encourage many to visit a doc or vax centre, btw. Proof of vax required for payment, and many would find it convenient then to get the bus and keep the bonus.

  76. Nob says:

    You need to catch up Monty.

    Norway is having a surge of infections and deaths.

    They have gone back to ten day quarantines over winter after being very open last summer.

    I talk to my Norwegian colleagues several times a week and have just arranged entry permits for a couple of my techs to go offshore there.

  77. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Make it a $200 fare and inconvenience bonus and the take-up in public housing areas would be very strong.

  78. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    And just how do you know that, given what we know of the past, uniformly failed, attempts at CV vaccines?

    Your choice, by all means, but let’s not pretend that it is in any way desirable to ‘vaccinate the over 50s ASAP’.

    Britain are finding it desirable to use the AZ on all but the under 30’s.

    I’ll tell you one thing. If we opened up right now to international travel we would get a very significant epidemic of Covid19 as we have virtually no herd immunity. I’ll tell you another thing too: once this happened people would be forming long lines everywhere to get the AZ vax.

    Soon enough, we will NEED to open up. Get your head around that now.

  79. Luke73:

    Should Governments put aside mitigation efforts until a satisfactory number of deaths is reached and it can then correctly be called a pandemic?

    Now you’re just being stupid.
    Piss off, you loon.

  80. Roger W says:

    luke73 says:
    April 14, 2021 at 2:00 pm
    WHO changed their definition of a pandemic in 2010 to eliminate severity from the definition so, strictly speaking, each year we have a pandemic of colds!

  81. rickw:

    So the Australian Governments are a bunch of incompetent imbeciles incapable of thinking things through.

    Yes.
    I wish the whole ruling class had gone to sleep in 2020 and not woken up until …whenever. *shrugs*

  82. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Norway is having a surge of infections and deaths.

    What is their vax situation now, Nob? They were the first to stop the AZ due to deaths in nursing homes. i.e. older people too. Then that was said to be a false alarm.

    It is true that all vaccines have side effects, including death. It’s a risk-benefit thing. We have to be very careful in Australia that we don’t take the risk of Covid infection as no risk, just because we have lived behind a moat since last March. Dispense with the moat and the risk gets very much higher without mass vax.

  83. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    It’s been a cold Spring in the Northern Hemisphere. For us, we’ve had a not very warm but very wet summer. Now we are heading into what may be a fairly cold winter (sunspots down, and glowball warmening not exactly being up, and while I’m thinking of CO2 let me reiterate that a model is simply a predictive hypothesis that is highly dependent on the right parameters and good data, neither of which exist for the tearful Greta sorts of scenarios). Covid seems to love cold, as Nob notes above. Welcome to Melbourne and Adelaide you antivax folks, so near to Antarctic blasts which are also ramping up.

  84. Tim Neilson says:

    Tim – this post is written in the context that Australia pursued an elimination strategy whilst other countries adopted a more relaxed approach, and now they have 30-50% of their population vaccinated (cw <1% for Australia) and so are now much better placed – therefore we were wrong to pursue elimination. That's a different argument to opposing elimation full stop.

    Different but not inconsistent. Many did argue here during 2020 that attempts at elimination would cause way more harm than they did good irrespective of when if ever a vaccine turned up. How is that contrary to pointing out now that attempts at elimination have done more harm than good now that vaccines are becoming available?
    (Of course no-one opposed “elimination”, they just opposed the misguided attempt to pursue it.)

  85. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    considering the very effective, cheap and safe alternatives

    As I’ve said above, I am very much in favour of new and effective treatments, including Ivermectin. Long term hydroxychloroquine can cause mucous tissue bleeding and some heart issues, so I wouldn’t like that much as a preventative unless monitored. But it might be a useful port in a Covid storm.

  86. Nob says:

    Hi Lizzie,

    I don’t gobble stats every day like some people here in the UK do but my colleagues ( between 50 & 60yo) in Norway say it will be months before they get offered a vaccine.

    When you say “Britain are finding it desirable to use the AZ on all but the under 30’s.” – this is entirely because of the EU created scare. Serious complications from AZ are vanishingly low even for under 30s but thanks to Boris’ strategy of spreading and hedging on vaccine orders, they can easily switch to another kind if they are people getting spooked. The problem is more political than medical. (I refer you again to entrepreneur Kate Bingham who Boris put in charge of procurement and rollout last year)

    Australia is finding what was obvious from the start:
    It’s easy for bureaucratic states to shut down, lock down, and threaten their citizens. That’s what bureaucracies do anyway.

    The hard thing is getting something going again and encouraging freedom and initiative.

    Question:
    If states can make unilateral foreign policy decisions, like Dan’s belt and road, why couldn’t they have organised some vaccines unilaterally?

  87. m0nty says:

    Norway is having a surge of infections and deaths.

    They have gone back to ten day quarantines over winter after being very open last summer.

    Correlation is not always causation, but…

  88. Tim Neilson says:

    Correlation is not always causation, but…

    … but when just about every place in the world with really cold winters has the same pattern one can start to suspect that ambient temperature plays a big role.

  89. Nob says:

    Monty,

    I can see what you’re hinting at but to be clear – they went back into the ten-day quarantine back in September or something, and they’re only seeing a surge now.

    They argument seems to be , OK it seems Sweden hasn’t done all that bad compared to other EU countries but oh, look, here’s a number that suits me: it’s worse than neighbouring Scandis! – but none of the Scandi countries have been anywhere near as fanatical as Victoria. This just doesn’t work as a comparison to Australia’s isolationism.

    And consider what is meant by porous borders:
    Almost all intra-Europe (and much beyond) freight is truck-driven, and that includes ro-ro to/from Britain & Ireland.

    Millions of drivers crossing international borders every day, even in the strictest lockdowns.

  90. Tim Neilson says:

    Welcome to Melbourne and Adelaide you antivax folks, so near to Antarctic blasts which are also ramping up.

    Like last winter in Melbourne? Winter in Melbourne is cold relatively to much of the rest of Australia but it’s mild by the standards of places that have serious seasonally related COVID problems. Maximum Leader had to attain world’s best practice in misgovernment to create even the level of disaster that he managed to achieve.

    Despite having the most catastrophe-prone clown troupe in human history creating utterly unnecessary super-spreads the (reputed) COVID deaths in Victoria for the whole of last year were less than .00014 of the population, and given the ages of the deceased it’s unclear whether the real “caused by COVID” deaths were really more than a few dozen at most.

    I’m not surprised that a good many people want to know a lot more about the likelihood of lethal vaccine side effects before they’ll be lining up to get jabbed solely to beat that level of COVID odds.

  91. m0nty says:

    They argument seems to be , OK it seems Sweden hasn’t done all that bad compared to other EU countries but oh, look, here’s a number that suits me: it’s worse than neighbouring Scandis! – but none of the Scandi countries have been anywhere near as fanatical as Victoria. This just doesn’t work as a comparison to Australia’s isolationism.

    It doesn’t matter how close Denmark’s regime has been to Victoria. The thing that matters is how much of an outlier Sweden is among Scandinavian countries. The answer to the latter is that it is a big outlier and, given the lack of other differences, the conclusion must be that Sweden’s laissez-faire strategy is a failure in direct comparison.

  92. Rex Anger says:

    It doesn’t matter how close Denmark’s regime has been to Victoria. The thing that matters is how much of an outlier Sweden is among Scandinavian countries. The answer to the latter is that it is a big outlier and, given the lack of other differences, the conclusion must be that Sweden’s laissez-faire strategy is a failure in direct comparison.

    Benito M0ntylini, translated:
    It does not matter, because it contradicts my Narrative, peasants!

  93. m0nty says:

    The other aspect of this is that Swedish leaders admitted in public late last year that the previous approach was a failure, and applied harsh restrictions which have not yet eased.

    Looking at current figures on infections and public sentiment after nearly six months of near-lockdowns and pretending that they refer back to the original herd immunity regime would be completely disingenuous at this point in time.

  94. Squirrel says:

    Yes, Australian exceptionalism is one of our most dangerous conceits – let’s just hope the mining and agriculture revenues hold up while we search for a way out of the corner we’ve painted ourselves into.

  95. Rex Anger says:

    The other aspect of this is that Swedish leaders admitted in public late last year that the previous approach was a failure, and applied harsh restrictions which have not yet eased.

    Looking at current figures on infections and public sentiment after nearly six months of near-lockdowns and pretending that they refer back to the original herd immunity regime would be completely disingenuous at this point in time.

    Yes, yes. Sweden’s experience should not be used to discredit Maximum LockDan, Palachook or Comrade Sneakers’ renditions of Gulag Australis, because Orange Man Bad or muh Kilmate Clunge or somthein…

  96. Pyrmonter says:

    @ monty

    The “most recent debacle of vaccine availability and rollout”, which is completely attributable to the arrogant incompetence of the Morrison government, is unrelated to the issue of lockdowns which were state matters.

    The last thing I’m going to do (well, almost) is defend Greg Hunt, who has proved one of the least liberal and worst performing senior members of the governments elected in 2013 (Cats familiar with his irrational views on vaping can add to those comments) but … many of the problems are ones of our local bureaucracy. Which time and again has failed. It was mistakes by junior public health officials that let passengers from the Ruby Princess fly around the country. And for all my (and others’) legitimate gripes about the authoritarian nature of Andrews’ regimen in Victoria … he didn’t create it from whole cloth. There are fundamental cultural and organisational problems in the bureaucracies that do the day-to-day formulation and implementation of policy; and while many of their mistakes have been mitigated by geography, things could have gone much less well; and if this vaccine mess isn’t resolved soon, will do so. Something I say quite independently of the party in office: it really hasn’t mattered whether the press release is signed by a member of hte ALP or the LPA – both are presiding over bureaucracies that simply aren’t up to much.

  97. Chris M says:

    We know that Covid has cost the Treasury some $580Bn and counting

    Nah the cost of this disease has actually been quite low, just a small number in hospitals little different to flu season.

    I think you might be meaning the government interventionist measures that cost a big bunch.

  98. Nob says:

    I have no idea which “Swedish leaders” are being referred to but their politicians have held a variety of positions over past months and continue to do so.

    “admit” is journalist crapspeak for when a politician or other target says something.
    It signals that the journo is full of shit.

  99. m0nty says:

    many of the problems are ones of our local bureaucracy

    The bureaucracy is not to blame for Morrison signing only one supply deal with a single vendor, as opposed to the aforementioned Boris Johnson hedging approach where he has the power to pivot from one supplier to another very quickly based on the latest medical advice.

    Even if it was the bureaucracy’s fault, there is this thing called the Westminster system which we are supposed to be upholding, where Ministers are responsible for the actions of their departments. Seven years of this government, they have no excuse for not reforming it after all this time.

  100. m0nty says:

    Sweden’s king has said his country “failed” to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus pandemic.

    King Carl XVI Gustaf made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family.

    Sweden, which has never imposed a full lockdown, has seen nearly 350,000 cases and more than 7,800 deaths – a lot more than its Scandinavian neighbours.

    Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said he agreed with the king’s remarks.

    “Of course the fact that so many have died can’t be considered as anything other than a failure,” Mr Lofven told reporters.

  101. Tim Neilson says:

    The thing that matters is how much of an outlier Sweden is among Scandinavian countries. The answer to the latter is that it is a big outlier

    Translation: Sweden bad.

    The other aspect of this is that Swedish leaders admitted in public late last year that the previous approach was a failure, and applied harsh restrictions which have not yet eased.

    Looking at current figures on infections and public sentiment after nearly six months of near-lockdowns and pretending that they refer back to the original herd immunity regime would be completely disingenuous at this point in time.

    Translation: Sweden not bad, but excuse.

    Actually Sweden never said their approach was wrong, they said they should have done better with aged care facilities.
    Also they didn’t impose “harsh restrictions”. There are a few mandatory limits e.g. opening times and patron numbers in pubs, gyms etc. but no shutdown of them, and otherwise just “recommendations” – no totalitarianism.

  102. mundi says:

    The difference between Aus and the likes of UK and USA, is simply that we actually shutdown borders.

    UK and USA never shutdown state borders, or even international borders. Never.

    This is why the virus spread continously and why they have had continous lockdown. If you think the few weeks in brisbane is bad, go and see UK and USA which have had worse for almost the entire year – meanwhile letting planes fly around and giving free travel to everyone.

    The governments only failing is that it has no bite to contracts which haven’t been upheld. The government should have had collosal penalties on the companies if they don’t deliver. The government should also be pulling out of any funding that is going to EU type bodies, and considering tarrifs on any EU products coming into australia as retaliation for what is effectively an infinite tarrif they have imposed on vaccine exports.

  103. Pyrmonter says:

    @monty

    The UK’s success appears to rest on bringing in a well-connected outsider: one who, for once (these people come in quite frequently and usually fail), pulled off a real coup: https://www.theweek.co.uk/951927/does-media-owe-kate-bingham-apology-over-uk-vaccine-rollout

    Bingham is the wife of one of the Treasury ministers (the remarkable Jesse Norman – about the most obviously intellectual Tory front-bencher since Lord Hailsham) and daughter of a titanic judge, Lord (Tom) Bingham of Cornhills, former Master of the Rolls (senior commercial judge) and author an excellent pamphlet on the rule of law, in the second half of which he argued that Iraq was illegal.

  104. Rex Anger says:

    Even if it was the bureaucracy’s fault, there is this thing called the Westminster system which we are supposed to be upholding, where Ministers are responsible for the actions of their departments.

    Except when Benito M0ntylini and the bugmen feel it would harm the side…

    (E.g. Viktoristan, the NSW Health lady who kept her job despite the Ruby Princess, etc.)

  105. Tim Neilson says:

    Pyrmonter says:
    April 14, 2021 at 8:00 pm

    I don’t see Victoria’s disaster as having been bureaucratic in origin. Nothing I know about the Victorian public service makes me think that they were the ones who:
    (a) faced with a national Cabinet decision that ADF personnel would be used in quarantine, which was confirmed by a March 26 press release by Maximum Leader himself, decided to ignore it;
    (b) decided not to follow any sort of proper process (e.g. public request for expressions of interest? full tender process?), or even contact any company on the government’s own list of official preferred suppliers of security services;
    (c ) instead chose to contact a Labor maaaaaaate whose company wasn’t on the official preferred list, offer him a $30 million plus deal, and sign a contract within 6 hours;
    (d) were responsible for no records at all of how all that happened being kept.

    I will, however, accept that they were very probably willing participants in the Stasi-like efforts to mitigate the consequences of that fuckup.

  106. Pyrmonter says:

    @monty

    Westminster. Well, a nice idea, in theory. I look forward to your contention that Dan Andrews must resign over, well, let’s start with arresting men observing Passach, move on to the inconsistent approaches to policing his own quite draconian rules … and conclude with the inabilty of Victoria to contain outbreaks that, elsewhere (NSW in particular) have been capable of control with much less intrusive measures.

    No government of any political stripe has covered itself with consistent glory; but the problems run deeper than Colorados v Blancos, the banal tribalism of so much of our ‘politics’: there are deeply illiberal currents in both of the main political movements; worse to their extremes; and a bureaucracy that has basically failed to function.

    My thoughts are that this is all quite consistent with the sort of small government/’markets work’ political agenda of the 80s-00s; but then those ideas are about as fashionable now as crinolines, spats and opera hats.

  107. Pyrmonter says:

    @ Tim N

    We could quibble about the nature of the political staff in minsters’ offices: bureaucrats, or no? That’s the body of ‘professionals’ that gave us Rudd on the one side, and Cormann on the other.

    I take your point that there are foolish ministers; but where were the gate-keepers? Where were the minutes of decision-making that led to the Victorian disaster? How could it come to be that _no-one_ is recorded as having decided to exclude the army from controlling quarantine? And how is it that Victoria’s implementation was so much worse on this issue than all of the other states (who’ve managed to err on other topics, I’ll add in passing – in NSW the Ruby Princess; in SA, the choice of quarantine venues; in Tasmania, in infection control at one of the northern hospitals, etc)

  108. PeterW says:

    The lie in refusing to compare Sweden with any country other than its immediate neighbours, becomes apparent as soon as we remember how varied the response of different demographics within countries has been,

    There have been large variations in COVID case and fatality rates within Sweden. You can’t simultaneously claim that climate is the major determinant of base rates between countries, but not within them.
    There are significant DEMOGRAPHIC variations between Sweden (particularly the worst-affected regions of Sweden) and its neighbours, that are known to affect Covid fatality rates.
    There are also significant HISTORIC factors, particularly the excess death from respiratory diseases in the two years prior to COVID. …. For those unfamiliar with the argument, it is that as COVID is known to disproportionately affect the old and frail, those populations that have recently experienced severe flu (and similar) seasons will have relatively fewer old-and-frail still alive to be affected by COVID. Sweden had a mild season previously, unlike its neighbours while has severe seasons.

  109. billie says:

    We know that Covid has cost the Treasury some $580Bn and counting

    that must be driving former PMs Rudd and Turnbull insane, they were both spendthrifts

  110. Rockdoctor says:

    IMO I’d like to see more scrutiny of Unified Security. Both Paul Murray, Peta Credlin and others went there early on promising big things then delivered nothing. Didn’t even try to downplay that there was nothing here to see, just went dead. Taken the Shadow Police Minister to get it on the agenda again…

    From my initial searches on what is in the public sphere seems one of the directors sits on the NSW Security Licencing Board and others seem very well connected. Then there’s the delisted company that was never explained and yes I know could be quite normal but in the absence of any explanation some of us just assume the mates of the uniparty are looking after other mates again. Then how the hell they win a contract in Victoria? The alleged indigenous link has never been explained. So many questions…

  111. Leon L says:

    This is long, 1h 30m, but worthwhile.
    Jay Bhattacharya, Martin Kulldorff and Sunetra Gupta discussing covid.
    We need to get back to science and the Enlightenment.
    “The science” is never settled.

  112. Tim Neilson says:

    Pyrmonter says:
    April 14, 2021 at 8:37 pm

    Yes, fair comment, a bureaucracy doing anything remotely like its job would at least have pushed back (and kept meticulous records of having pushed back), and would have made sure there was a proper record trail of how the whole thing was implemented. But you can be sure that they knew very well the career limiting consequences of doing any such thing. The most crucial of the “fundamental cultural and organisational problems in the bureaucracies” to which you referred is their utterly supine gutlessness in the face of the ALP bovver boys. It was that toxic combination that killed over 800 Victorians.

  113. Nob says:

    Sweden had a mild season previously, unlike its neighbours while has severe seasons.

    Yes, Anders Tegnall said that right at the start.

    They were already expecting a +4000 increase in total mortality from 2019 since 2019 was +/-2000 deaths below average. This tends to happen as the frailer folks who survived the milder year when they might normally have died, succumb in the harsher year.

    This is not an attempt to obscure COVID mortalities but to illuminate them against other trends.

    You could lock down countries forever and gain a couple of years for the elderly at the expense of greater loneliness and neglect, but we’re still all gonna die.

  114. Tim Neilson says:

    Didn’t even try to downplay that there was nothing here to see, just went dead.

    The “Inquiry” did accidentally let in some real evidence about Fatty Ashton’s phone call with Maximum Leader’s Chief of Staff, but on the whole it could be used as a textbook exercise in how to look like an investigation but find nothing embarrassing to Labor maaaaaaates.
    It’s probably difficult now that that’s happened to break the cone of silence.
    Of course even if the Inquiry’s “findings” were the truth (yes I know but bear with me) that should be plenty enough for Maximum Leader to be sacked, but there aren’t the kind of soundbite points about that which might get public traction.

    in the absence of any explanation some of us just assume the mates of the uniparty are looking after other mates again

    I’d be taking that one to Sportsbet.

    The alleged indigenous link has never been explained.

    Probably just a shell front company with a few token indigenous directors and shareholders, with no assets or employees, which gets contracts because indigenous and subcontracts the whole thing to the real player for whatever the government is paying less the indigenes’ rakeoff for lending their name to it.

  115. FlyingPigs says:

    Speedbox

    Someone had their foot on ‘the wheels’ brake.

    Can we spin again without Government interference?

  116. BorisG says:

    I do not support all of Australia’s Covid policies but from friends around the world I only hear that australia and NZ are the envy of the world. Australia won!

  117. Ozman says:

    More comments on the Cat are demonstrating an awareness of the inconsistencies surrounding the pandemic–that is not–and the agenda to kill independent businesses in preference for fascist leanings.

    Since when did Bill Gates earn a medical degree? Politico says he is the most powerful doctor. He funds WHO, GAVI, John Hopkins, Oxford University, and the rest are too numerous to list. He also funds individuals such as Neil Ferguson (Imperial College), UK’s Tim Flannery equivalent for false predictions and alarmism, whose claims gave the impression people would be falling down dead when walking in the street, similar to what happened in Memphis, Tennessee, during the 1878 Yellow Fever epidemic, when thousands died in the streets in a matter of weeks, and some 25,000 fled the city to safer locations.

    Diagnostically, without the tests, the majority of COVID-19 cases are non-existent; the symptoms being those of influenza, which ranges from a mild dose lasting three days to the need of hospitalization and patients dying from bacterial pneumonia. With the tests, the majority of cases are asymptomatic.

    Reports from numerous physicians around the globe inform that parasitic and bacterial protocols using Plaquenil, Ivermectin, and Azithromycin are effective against these flu-like symptoms.

    This leads to the question: Why have a flu shot? From the anecdotal reports I hear, they are largely ineffective; even from an MD, in a moment of honesty.

    Victoria lost out more than other states (probably why a certain individual landed in hospital). And even if the other states did better, Australia still lost. There are no winners when government leaders do not do proper due diligence but toe the UN line. Not that Tanzania’s President John Magufuli or Burundi’s President Pierre Nkurunziza benefited from kicking WHO out and ensuring that nobody got tested, because there was no evidence of any unusual illnesses.

  118. Bad Samaritan says:

    All this BS about 800, or 900, old codgers already at death’s door and then shuffling off in Victoria. FFS. Dan didn’t care at all: Victorians didn’t care, and I don’t care either.

    Everyone knows what a pandemic is., and Covid19 ain’t it.

    Here’s a list of the “Top Ten Pandemic Movies” https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/g32419194/pandemic-movies/. As everyone will already know, the “scary thing” is that people of all ages die rapidly and unexpectedly in pandemics. see the Spanish Flu.

    Until this (fake) pandemic, no-one had the slightest concern upon hearing that 93 year-old Aunt Mabel…..”was she still alive?”…. FFS. All BS from start to finish.

  119. Mark M says:

    The perpetual pandemic

    “[Swampy] Biden, who has been fully vaccinated for four months, still wanders around in a mask, as does the Vice President who shadows him at every turn.

    The media and the Biden administration want to tell everyone that the vaccines work, but are unwilling to demonstrate the perks of getting vaccinated.

    These people are not interested in returning to normal by the end of the year.”

    https://spectator.us/topic/perpetual-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccines-elites/

  120. Nob says:

    BorisG says:
    April 15, 2021 at 12:49 am
    I do not support all of Australia’s Covid policies but from friends around the world I only hear that australia and NZ are the envy of the world. Australia won!

    Not now Boris.
    Australians who used to ask daily what our total number infections were in the UK , now ask wistfully what our latest vaccination record is.

    Isolation isn’t looking so great anymore.

  121. John Bayley says:

    Australians who used to ask daily what our total number infections were in the UK , now ask wistfully what our latest vaccination record is.

    And later on, when autumn starts in Europe, they will be asking how many dead there are among the ‘vaccinated’ and perhaps the true efficiency of the vaccines, as well as the conflicts of interest, fake ‘science’, outright rorts and many other facts may finally be known.

    https://therealslog.com/2021/04/11/world-covid-exclusive/

    And perhaps then prosecutions will follow.
    One can dream.

  122. John Bayley says:

    Soon enough, we will NEED to open up. Get your head around that now.

    I’ve had my head around that from the very beginning, unlike clearly many here.
    In fact, I said back in March last year, on this forum, that the numbers from Italy clearly showed the whole ‘pandemic’ was way overdone and that we should never have closed up at all.

    Mind you, I asked you before whether you truly believe that once most people have been vaccinated, things will go back to ‘normal’.

    Because going by what’s happening in the UK, that is apparently not going to happen.

    As a number of people here have predicted.

    I also wonder, with your stated background, just why do you think that a ‘vaccine’ that already shows, using the now available data, to be hundreds of times more dangerous than the flu vax, and disproportionately so (compared to WuFlu itself) to younger, people, is somehow desirable to be pushed to everyone.

    Especially so when, as pointed out above, the Ivermectin and/or steroid inhalant treatments have much better safety record and comparable effectiveness (assuming one believes the claimed numbers regarding the vax) to the experimental concoctions.

    And, Lizzie, please do not refer to people who are rightfully conservative on this, as ‘anti-vaxxers’. It does detract from whatever you may be trying to say.

  123. Mark M says:

    Germany to use corona meds that helped Trump

    “They work like a passive vaccination.
    Administering these antibodies in the early stages can help high-risk patients avoid a more serious progression,” Spahn said.

    Trump, who was briefly hospitalised with the coronavirus, was given the antibody therapy developed by US firm Regeneron, known as REGN-COV2, even before the treatment had won regulatory approval.

    The novel treatment is a combination or “cocktail” of two lab-made antibodies: infection-fighting proteins that were developed to bind to the part of the new coronavirus that it uses to invade human cells.

    The antibodies attach themselves to different parts of the virus’s spike protein, distorting its structure—similar in a way to knocking a key out of shape so it no longer fits its lock.”

    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-01-germany-corona-meds-trump.html

  124. Roger says:

    We’re in safe hands:

    National Cabinet to meet twice weekly to implement Vaccination Plan C.

  125. H B Bear says:

    Sneakers, Pony Girl, Chairman Dan and the Glad Bag will get this show back on the road.

  126. Mark M says:

    This link via link – John Bayley says: April 15, 2021 at 6:37 am

    Lots of loose threads being tied here.
    Some might need to keep their aluminium foil deflection beanie handy …

    The Secret Contents of Ever Given – Evergreen Container Ship – Kaan Sariaydin – Mavi Gazetem

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z1eFrE66aM&t=339s

    That the authorities have now taken the ship hostage makes it more intriguing.

  127. PB says:

    “we are now totally reliant on a vaccine. Our population is defenceless with virtually no broad exposure to the disease and the full cost of our global isolation is yet to become apparent.”

    This will likely be a bigger problem still to come as a result of not taking option 1 with appropriate revision as conditions on (or under?) the ground dictated, when it was clearly the only sensible option at the time.

  128. PB says:

    “I only hear that australia and NZ are the envy of the world. Australia won!”

    Australia postponed.

  129. Tel says:

    The Swedes took some other measures (social distancing etc) but were more ‘hands off’ than virtually every other country. Despite their efforts, a number of elderly or ill have died and the death rate per million is relatively high compared to most of the world.

    Here’s the fairly long list of countries that are of reasonable size, have believable statistics and did worse than Sweden, in terms of death rate, by worst first:

    Czech Republic, Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, North Macedonia, Belgium, Slovenia, Slovakia, Italy, UK, USA, Brazil, Peru, Portugal, Spain, Mexico, Poland, Croatia, France, Panama, Lithuania, Moldova. Everyone who is going to keep putting forward the myth that Sweden was significantly worse than typical has to explain all those countries before they have an even slightly plausible argument.

    Out of the countries that did significantly better than Sweden, there’s bunch of micro nations that are too small to give any meaningful data such as New Caledonia, Macao, Greenland, Anguilla, Solomon Islands, Samoa, etc and other countries such as China and Russia where the statistics are probably outright fudged, and many African countries where statistics are available (e.g. Sudan, Kenya, Somalia, etc) but must be considered at least a little bit difficult to compare with “first world” countries.

    That leaves not so many countries that actually did better than Sweden … sure Denmark, Norway and Iceland did better, Australia and New Zealand did better, Indonesia, Philippines, Japan and South Korea did surprisingly well also. No one has a consistent explanation why.

    Other countries like Romania and Argentina have done almost as bad as Sweden but have not got to the end of it yet and still are showing a high daily death rate in 2021 … they will end up worse by the time this is all over. Both of those countries put all sorts of strict measures in place, but they aren’t looking so great as a consequence.

  130. Dr Faustus says:

    I do not support all of Australia’s Covid policies but from friends around the world I only hear that australia and NZ are the envy of the world. Australia won!

    I hear that too.
    The trouble with that endorsement however is that casual observers overseas only count up the numbers of sick and dead. They don’t see the social and economic consequences of isolating the entire continent, the effects of the breakdown of the commonwealth, nor the nearly impossible climb out of our current position.

    Not their faults, of course.
    Our governments don’t seem to see those problems either.

  131. Epicurious says:

    John Bayley says:
    April 14, 2021 at 12:34 pm
    And if you think AUS/NZ have, or will have, via the vaccines, ‘eliminated’ ConVid-1984, you are dreaming.

    Couldn’t agree more. Dumb strategy perpetuated by dumb medical authorities and drowning politicians. Why would we need a ‘vaccine’ that doesn’t stop you from getting the alleged virus, stop you from passing it on and will only relieve mild symptoms at best? Why? The answer is you don’t need it.

  132. Terry says:

    Epicurious says:
    April 15, 2021 at 10:26 am
    ‘Why? The answer is you don’t need it.’

    It has nothing to do with your need to have it and everything to do with their need to give it.

  133. Kneel says:

    ““Of course the fact that so many have died can’t be considered as anything other than a failure,” Mr Lofven told reporters.”

    Heh.
    Why don’t you wait and see what the numbers are like when everywhere else has 2nd, 3rd, 4th “waves” and they don’t. It looks bad now because they have reached herd immunity, as was their goal. Do your comparisons apple to apple, will ya?

    Look – people die, it happens. It’s tragic. No-one wants it. But it is life. If you want no-one to die from any disease, then shoot ’em all in the head now, because that’s the only way to be sure no-one will die of something else. Hardly practical. Or lock ’em down forever – weld ’em inside their homes and they’ll die of starvation or something, but at least they didn’t get COVID, eh?

    FMD. A bit of perspective, sober analysis and a reflection on history would be nice. But that would adversely impact on the YSM’s ability to get clicks and $$, so we won’t have that! Don’t believe it? Check out Project Veritas’ latest CNN “leak” where they WANT more deaths because it makes them money. And they admit that’s why they have the “death counters” up so much – money, money, money! Or check the coverage of Chauvin’s trial – barely a mention of how the defense turned a state witness’ testimony around so much, they will call him as part of the defense! Or the “peaceful protests” happening in Portland AGAIN – it’s definitely a “peaceful protest” when they barricade the local police station and then try to set it on fire, nothing but peace and love about firing bullets into the local cop-shop either, right? Just google “portland riot” and then compare to “peaceful protest”. Parasites and ghouls, the lot of ’em (with the odd notable exception).

  134. m0nty says:

    Why would we need a ‘vaccine’ that doesn’t stop you from getting the alleged virus, stop you from passing it on and will only relieve mild symptoms at best?

    To stop you dying, dumbarse.

  135. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    I also wonder, with your stated background, just why do you think that a ‘vaccine’ that already shows, using the now available data, to be hundreds of times more dangerous than the flu vax, and disproportionately so (compared to WuFlu itself) to younger, people, is somehow desirable to be pushed to everyone.

    John B, the AZ vaccine, as Nob points out for Britain (I’ve met him, he lives there, he knows stuff), is caught up in a political bunfight not a medical one. It could be given to under 30’s in Britain at a push. One of the problems is lack of proper data on the clotting issues and a lot of focus on very, very rare deaths. All vaccines can be said to have a death rate and produce morbidities.

    Vaccination is never a perfect answer, but reducing the capacity for a virus to engage in population replication at a level of harm is the aim. I am not against using other preventatives if preferred. I have a regular flu shot and at 79 soon I’ve not had a flu of any sort since I started having flu shots twenty years ago. Same for my husband. I’ll have the AZ myself in a few months after I’ve had major surgery. I don’t want to confuse issues by having it before recovery from that. If the Pfizer is available by then, I’ll have that, for its better coverage. My husband doesn’t like the science there and will stick to the AZ in spite of having blot clotting issues. That’s his call. People differ.

    I am not forcing anyone to have a vaccine nor do I disparage individuals for concern re less well tested vaccines, especially if they are under fifty. I do think it is criminal to not vaccinate children for common childhood illnesses that can kill; those people I do call anti-vaxers. Do your own risk assessment re Covid. I support vaccines as an assistance to herd immunity for Covid. Gaining that is important in Australia right now. So either vaccinate and get a lower dose of Covid, or get the full blast and see how you go. You might not even notice getting it. Or then again, you just might get quite crook, under fifty regardless. The risk of getting Covid in Australia now is about nil. But that can and will change once we bridge the moat by air and sea.

  136. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    I am booked to travel up the Amazon in Brazil in early March 2022. They have shockingly high rates of Covid Brazilian strain and in all population age groups including babies. My cruise company won’t take me there without vaccination and I sure as hell don’t want to go there without it either. But I do want to go.

    My concern will be getting out of Oz and back in again, because our timid governments have refused to face up to the situation that is world-wide. Covid exists, vaccinate or live with it and stop pretending that hotel quarantine is suitable or effective for purpose. End all lockdowns. Vaccinate the over 60’s and whoever else wants it and open up.

  137. Speedbox says:

    I’m beginning to think that Morrison, or some of his Cabinet or advisers, read the Cat.

    In particular, Morrison’s comments about the (potential) change in international travel arrangements.

    Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison is urgently asking medical experts to formulate a plan on how vaccinated Aussies can travel overseas and skip hotel quarantine upon return.

    The PM said the country’s “main goal” was vaccinating the most vulnerable parts of the population, but said an international travel plan was “what I’d like to see happen next”.

    “This is what I’ve tasked the medical experts with, is ensuring that we can know when an Australian is vaccinated here with their two doses, is able to travel overseas and return without having to go through hotel quarantine,” he told 6PR Perth Radio.

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