A Complete Clutterbuck

We’ve been wondering why we haven’t had a subsidy in Australia. Now it sounds like we might be on the march to a better system.”

– Wodonga retiree Rod Clutterbuck has been waiting for a cheaper EV to “save the planet.”

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53 Responses to A Complete Clutterbuck

  1. feelthebern says:

    The maker of one these cars is Tesla.
    Not a small player.
    The founder, Elon Musk is one of the richest people on the planet (& depending on how Amazon is trading compared to Tesla is sometimes the richest person on the planet).
    Why do taxpayers need to subsidise his product?
    If EV’s are so fantastical, why don’t consumers do what they did with iphones?
    Buy them with their own money?

  2. feelthebern says:

    I do like the Model3.
    I have a few mates with them.
    Like their other weekend toys, they bought them with their own money.
    At some stage I plan to get the Model3 too – or whatever smaller EV Elon comes up with.
    But I will do that with my own money.
    I have zero expectation of a subsidy.
    And I plan to re-charge the thing at home.
    Again, with zero expectation of a subsidy.

  3. feelthebern says:

    Wodongo retiree Rod Clutterbuck has been waiting for a cheaper EV “to save the planet.”

    Code for: I want a to have a discretionary item that I can’t afford, so I will demand others pay for (in part) said discretionary item.

  4. Struth says:

    CPV’s
    Coal Powered Vehicles.

  5. Kneel says:

    From the article:

    “When people get an EV (electric vehicle) they are starting to save significant dollars off their bills,” Climate Change Minister Lily D ‘Ambrosio told the ABC.

    “It’s almost up to $1,600 that is saved off fuel and maintenance costs, each and every year, so we want to make it easier for Victorians.”

    So the $3k subsidy represents less than two years of “savings” from making such a switch.

    In any case, one wonders what the cost in lost hours is of requiring several hours to “refuel” vs several minutes. Probably insignificant for inner suburban commuters on their daily grind travel, but would be very noticible when “we’re goin’ to Bonniedoon”.

  6. Primer says:

    The Tesla is a perfectly adequate bicycle substitute for city commuting.
    But my 1600km return Brisbane plus 100km around town is usually done on 2 tanks in diesel 4×4, with a 10 minute fill up. My Tesla owning associate gets nervous at 300km, as recommended he won’t fill above 85% or run tanks dry to below 20% charge, he needs 6 charges that vary in time but average hours each, so slow he has to overnight each way, which Teslaees rarely factor as an operating cost.

    The electric horse and buggy isn’t ready for me yet.

  7. Paul says:

    The wealthy need subsidies by the poorest households to afford their EVs?
    The lefty upper class are ripping us off.

  8. Shy Ted says:

    Are there still people left in Vic? Crazy.

  9. Snotball says:

    I will happily buy an electric vehicle when
    1. It costs the same as a petrol vehicle
    2. It will tow a caravan across the Nullarbor
    3. Refuelling time the same as petrol
    4. Travel as far on a charge as a petrol vehicle does on a tank of fuel
    5. Recharging stations as plentiful as petrol service stations
    I have nothing against electric vehicles apart from the fact that at the moment they are impractical, costly and inconvenient

  10. Iain Russell says:

    Paul has it. The BoBo class richies will be sucking up the taxes of the toiling masses to virtue signal! Labor’s mates.

  11. Lee says:

    When people get an EV (electric vehicle) they are starting to save significant dollars off their bills,” Climate Change Minister Lily D ‘Ambrosio told the ABC.

    I don’t know how anyone could talk such bullshit with a straight face.

  12. feelthebern says:

    When people get an EV (electric vehicle) they are starting to save significant dollars off their bills,” Climate Change Minister Lily D ‘Ambrosio told the ABC.

    They must be charging at their neighbours place.
    Like Homer stealing cable TV.

  13. MikeS says:

    At least one of those Trabants looks like it was being delivered pre-dented. I wonder if any of them were still road worthy for the glorious westwards leap to freedom 30 years later.

    Also wonder how many of the subsidised, all electric conveyances will still be traveling the pot holed roads of the People’s Democratic Republic of Victoria in 2050.

  14. Rex Anger says:

    Also wonder how many of the subsidised, all electric conveyances will still be traveling the pot holed roads of the People’s Democratic Republic of Victoria in 2050.

    Then, fornsome perverse reason, by 2085 people will be restoring them out of some morbid fascination with the damn thing. Like there are Trabant fanciers still in Germany…

  15. Jock says:

    So its ok to have some children dig stuff up out of the ground in africa in order to build the batteries? what a thoughtful retiree.

  16. MACK says:

    “The Andrews government will provide 20,000 subsidies of up to $3,000 for new electric vehicle purchases under $69,000″. Clearly if we want the full truth, we’re not going to get it from the ABC/ALP.

  17. Terry says:

    When:
    1. Nuclear SMR’s are installed in everyone’s backyard (how else you going to re-charge these things?);

    2. Batteries attain adequate capacity, can be produced reasonably inexpensively, without slave labour, and within at least the same environmental constraints applied to nuclear and fossil energy production and distribution; and

    3. Those batteries can be fast/hot-swapped enroute to allow adequate range.

    Then, and only then, might “electric” be capable of competing with the ICE.

    In any case. It is a question for industry and consumers – not government picking winners for a world that exists only inside their rather spacious intracranial cavity.

  18. Roger says:

    The wealthy need subsidies by the poorest households to afford their EVs?
    The lefty upper class are ripping us off.

    Been going on for years, Paul.

    Consider solar panels.

    The next lark will be subsidising household batteries.

    All to save the planet, of course.

  19. stevem says:

    Electric cars are already subsidised. The luxury car tax threshold for electric vehicles comes in at a higher level resulting in a $3,000 subsidy. The fuel taxes that nominally go to road maintenance (but aren’t tied to roads) aren’t paid by electric vehicles.
    They just want the rest of us to subsidise their lifestyles.

  20. John Bayley says:

    I don’t know how anyone could talk such bullshit with a straight face.

    That’s because she truly IS that dumb.

  21. Mr Bunny says:

    I’m not real good with maths, but if l’m saving $1600 a year- even with the subsidy – it’ll take a 4-5 years to to recoup the expense on buying an EV as opposed to a like petrol vehicle. Now let’s talk about depreciation and re-sale value.

    I shouldn’t complain. God bless the Victorian government for organising poorly paid workers to subsidise the bourgeoisie to purchase EVs. And on May Day as well.

  22. Rex Anger says:

    Now let’s talk about depreciation and re-sale value.

    With these overgrown golf buggies, I am pretty certain that the Depreciation Curve is pretty close to 90 degrees…

  23. Lee says:

    Now let’s talk about depreciation and re-sale value.

    I am pretty certain that any EV will depreciate a hell of a lot quicker than a petrol-guzzler!

  24. Bad Samaritan says:

    Here’s a place where EVs are a no brainer…..Germany started pushing hard for then in 2010, but…..lotsa people and towns tightly packed together. Rich people, and very high tech…

    “In 2014 it was recognized that the country was well behind the set sales targets set in 2010. A purchase bonus scheme was approved in 2016, but premium cars were not eligible to the incentive…..in June 2020, and as a result of the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, the government approved a recovery plan which included €8 billion to promote electric vehicle adoption and deployment…… the purchase bonus for all-electric cars was raised temporarily from €6,000 to €9,000 for cars costing less than €40,000…the stock of plug-in electric vehicles in Germany is the largest in Europe, as of December 2020, cumulative registrations in Germany totaled 700,419 plug-in electric passenger cars since 2010,

    That’s 700,000 sold since 2010, with major subsidies constantly increasing. there are around 48 million cars registered on the road in Germany, of which around 1% are EVs or Part-EVs.

    Is every Victorian a f’wit? If not, then what are the non-F’wits doing there, and why is their govt so sure they are?

  25. Rex Anger says:

    Is every Victorian a f’wit? If not, then what are the non-F’wits doing there, and why is their govt so sure they are?

    Representative and Participatory Democracy gamed into oblivion by barrow-pushers, Main Chancers, Communist/Fascist Totalitarians and assorted bugmen of bureaucratic and oligarchic persuasions.

    And the little people stop caring.

  26. Professor FredLenin says:

    Now look comrades ,we will subsidise rich people to buy EV s from China , this will compensate for the belt and road thingy the Morro fascists stopped . We will tax hell out of petrol and diesel to force people to buy Chinese EVs . We will also close coal fired power making electricity dearer and scarcer to compensate our renewable mates and keep the bribes flowing . Those poorer workers who still have jobs can use public transport when it is working .
    Advice to the Victorian acting premier ,avoid steep stairs comrade , take the lift .

  27. Rex Anger says:

    @ President Fred-

    When LockDan observes the maaates taking the lifts Out of Service for ‘maintenance,’ he knows he needs to pull his head in… 😉

  28. John Bayley says:

    Is every Victorian a f’wit?

    I would rephrase that as ‘Is every Australian a f*wit?

    And….drum rolls…. the answer is ‘Yes’.

  29. Bad Samaritan says:

    John (3.57pm). I understand how it might look like that….

    I go to Victoria and see 75% voting for Dan, and hardly a dissenting voice. I see the f’wits running WA and SA and Tas and Qld and the NT and ACT saying the most stupidly irrational and illogical things….then getting massive electoral endorsements, but that is not everyone in Oz.

    There are a few sanctuaries for the sane: places to hide out, whilst the mad people roam the streets in their Hannibal Lector face-masks. The best known are the adjoining Qld electorates of Burdekin and Whitsunday…

    When I break cover to go shopping or sailing (or whatever else) in Bowen and Cannonvale/Airlie Beach, it’s in the knowledge that there was an 11% swing against Anastacia in Burdekin and a swing of about 2% in Whitsunday. These are the only places in all of Australia where the incumbent fascists have been rejected by the locals!

    So, here we are. 99% of Oz may be as you say…but not up here where heroes thrive. I feelz for ya all, I tells ya!

  30. Squirrel says:

    When the eco-fascists close down most of mining and farming there won’t be enough export earnings to pay for this expensive imported wankery.

  31. Rockdoctor says:

    When I break cover to go shopping or sailing (or whatever else) in Bowen and Cannonvale/Airlie Beach, it’s in the knowledge that there was an 11% swing against Anastacia in Burdekin and a swing of about 2% in Whitsunday. These are the only places in all of Australia where the incumbent fascists have been rejected by the locals!

    Bad Samaritan, I used to listen to 4MK a bit on contracts eastern areas of the Bowen Basin when I couldn’t get the better 4HI. The peoples of Whitsunday are their own worst enemies like the rest of the coastal north. The amount of green BS pushed and nodded too by tourist owners was in my eyes akin to turkeys voting for Christmas. These same fools voted for the odious Mike Brunker for Mayor before that fools ego got too big for him and bit off more than he could chew with a state run… Those errant 2% will return to the ALP/Green fold in a due time IMO…

  32. Nob says:

    EVs are fine for town runabouts in areas already oversupplied with bicycle paths and public transport.

    Top much payload is taken up by battery for heavy freight vehicles.

    Like in Norway, most EV owners will also have an ICE for the country.

    They can help with reducing urban pollution in inner city areas far from power plants.

    There’s no record of them in any country making any significant difference to total CO2 emissions.

  33. Nob says:

    If that is indeed the goal.

  34. FlyingPigs says:

    Nob says:
    May 2, 2021 at 6:27 pm
    If that is indeed the goal.

    Post of the day.

  35. Dusty says:

    The new teslas look like a bunch of fun. Their “Ludicrous” mode takes advantage of the instant torque that gives them an acceleration advantage over ICE cars, there’s one bloke in the US who has been stomping cars in the same weight category with his souped-up model. Also, there’s a company in Saudi Arabia who is coming up with a bunch of much more affordable electric cars than the high end- my workplace is supplying bolts to them. To those who need the long range capability of ICE, hybrid cars are perfectly capable of very long range trips with quick fill-ups.

    Having said all this, I *really* wish people wouldn’t try to subsidise them, because
    >It’s a violation of NAP
    >It warps the market
    >It means grumpy people on this site dislike them and shit on what’s a perfectly good transportation tool, especially as a bullet-proof daily driver. Seriously, the amount of money you save in a Prius on fuel more than covers the cost of both the tiny head-gasket and battery over four years.
    Don’t throw them into the sin-bin because lefty shits want something.

  36. a reader says:

    Driving a Prius marks you out as a twat

  37. Rob says:

    Madness begetting accelerating madness – forcing electric vehicles into the mix while blowing up coal fired power stations and banning the nuclear option.
    Power this EV surge with many multiples of short life wind turbines and watch the inevitable Australia wide wind droughts catastrophically collapsing the entire east coast electricity grid at regular intervals.
    Can we expect far sighted candle-stick makers to be making a motza in the near future.

  38. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha says:

    Driving a Prius marks you out as a twat

    Complete and utter twat, yes.

  39. littledozer says:

    An issue that is never talked about is minor damage from accidents.

    From Tesla forums it is not unusual for body repairs to take more than 6 months.

    I don’t know why this would be but apparently mechanics have to be approved by Tesla to do mundane tasks like suspension rebuilds and in previous years some owners have had to sign NDA’s to get their suspensions fixed. It seems like suspension issues are very common. Problems with ball joints snapping seem to be by far the most common issue.

    As a former mechanic I have always been bemused that you need to be Tesla approved to work on the suspension, Batteries, drive trains and software I can understand. After some research you realise Tesla can make advanced cars but build quality is well short of making them safe and reliable cars. Any issues are not easily rectified in a short period of time.

  40. Nob says:

    Dusty says:
    May 2, 2021 at 10:00 pm
    Having said all this, I *really* wish people wouldn’t try to subsidise them, because

    >It warps the market

    Important point.
    Subsidy and other interferences (e.g penalties against competing technology) distort the market and inhibit real innovation.

  41. Fair Shake says:

    There is a massive push by car manufacturers to go electric. The European manufacturers face huge fines if a % of sales are not renewables. The OEMs are working all countries and all levels of Government for subsidies to make this happen. They cannot believe our Fed Government wants electric vehicles to pay their own way. The lobbyists will work break one Gov and then use them to wedge others. Watch all State Governments roll over on the same way Victoria has.
    Taxpayers supporting the upper middle class? Cmon man it’s all about the planet 🌏. We really are as dumb as we seem.

  42. John Bayley says:

    Seriously, the amount of money you save in a Prius on fuel more than covers the cost of both the tiny head-gasket and battery over four years.

    That would depend on where / how you drive. There is no advantage if you spend much time outside of a city-type stop/start environment.
    Last time I looked at the price difference between a Prius and a similar size ICE vehicle, it simply made no sense to buy one because it would take years to recoup the extra cost in petrol savings.
    The comparison is even worse when you look at diesels like, say VW Golf. The TDI 1.6 BlueMotion uses around 3.8 litres per 100 kms on average, which is apparently less than the Prius. Even if you stick only to city driving, you will never get the extra up front cost of your Prius back.
    And, having ended up with one of those (Prius) recently as a hire car, I can only say that they are pretty awful to drive and I would never buy one.

    The European manufacturers face huge fines if a % of sales are not renewables. The OEMs are working all countries and all levels of Government for subsidies to make this happen.

    Yes, the picture of the Trabants above is very appropriate.
    We are back in East Germany and the commie central planners are firmly in charge.
    To the grand applause of the vast majority of the West’s population, I may add.

  43. Kneel says:

    “Seriously, the amount of money you save in a Prius on fuel more than covers the cost of both the tiny head-gasket and battery over four years.”

    If you are buying one based on your direct costs, fair enough – if it works for you and saves you money, why not get it?

    Don’t kid yourself you are saving the environment though – in cradle to grave terms, and over 160k km, a 5.7 V8 commodore produces LESS Co2.

  44. Roger says:

    Don’t kid yourself you are saving the environment though – in cradle to grave terms, and over 160k km, a 5.7 V8 commodore produces LESS Co2.

    The Swedes did a study of the environmental impact of producing batteries for EVs. If memory serves their conclusion was that you’d have to drive an EV for 8 years before you began to reverse the impact. Assuming the thing lasted that long, that is.

  45. TBH says:

    Mrs TBH has a hybrid Camry and the fuel economy is considerably better than her previous car (an all petrol Camry). I’ve got a TDI Passat and get over a thousand kms out of a tank. Both have been absolutely rock solid cars.

    I’m happy with a hybrid as my next vehicle, but all electric will have to wait until battery technology considerably improves, both in terms of energy density and recharge times. It’s nowhere near good enough at the moment.

  46. stevem says:

    littledozer says:
    May 2, 2021 at 11:46 pm
    An issue that is never talked about is minor damage from accidents.

    There was a fool Tesla driver in the US who tried his “autopilot” from the back seat recently and wrapped the car around a tree. The battery was damaged and caught fire, reigniting spontaneously each time it was extinguished.

    It took over 120,000l of water to finally put it out.

  47. Primer says:

    Electric cars beyond the suburbs are the equivalent of returning to the feather quill pen because they’re cheaper to operate than biros. The fact that they’re utterly inadequate for purpose doesn’t seem to concern the green left ministerial staff one little bit.

  48. STJOHNOFGRAFTON says:

    VicGov’s assault by battery.

  49. John A says:

    Bad Samaritan says: May 2, 2021, at 4:22 pm

    I go to Victoria and see 75% voting for Dan

    Fact check: false.

    Please do not engage in hyperbolic exaggeration. Just make your point with verifiable facts.

    Yes, a majority of Victorians voted for “gimme, gimme” policies and none of the present policy settings were at issue in 2018.

    Yes, the ALP basically bribed the populace enough to see a socialist elected as Premier.

    Yes, the stupid and almost invisible opposition parties failed because they thought copying the ALP was a way to win votes. That election should have demonstrated that such a strategy is a great way to lose votes and seats.

    Next year we will see if the opposition parties have truly learned the lesson, or (as I fear) if they will persist in playing the game according to the ALP rules and lose again.

  50. mundi says:

    Victoria can’t use a quota system, because then people would buy EV’s in victoria and move them interstate.

    So instead they have to have a cash subsidy. They are starting it at $4,000. But this of course will mostly go to rich people already buying Teslas anyway. You would have to offer more like $15,000 to $20,000 per car before the common householder will choose EV over ICE.

    Germany is currently offering over $15,000 per EV. The lease companies can use this to pay for your lease. In Germany you can lease at EV for $0 for first 3 years, then just walk away. And of course they call this a ‘runaway’ success…. as if a free car for 3 years was not going to be accepted?

  51. rickw says:

    Arky, time we joined the EV trough! Call me!

    (Recycled model A’s seeing as EV’s get a free pass on safety features?)

  52. rickw says:

    It took over 120,000l of water to finally put it out.

    Put out, or reaction completed?

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