30.0

Oh, I’ve chosen my words carefully, scolds. Perhaps you should have done the same

What do vaccines and Chinese coronavirus have in common? In her contractual Saturday hit-piece on the Morrison government, Laura Tingle inadvertently explains:

In Australia, only one person — a 48-year-old woman — has died from the AstraZeneca vaccine, and she had other serious medical issues. That is, clotting is rare and can make you very sick but in countries with good healthcare, it doesn’t kill healthy people.

 
Rare; can make you very sick; but in countries with good healthcare, it doesn’t kill healthy people. Sounds familiar. Australia’s impetuous op-edocracy is now using “hesitancy” as the weight-bearing buzzword in yet another jerry-built pandemic theory. Approximately 30 percent of the population is supposedly “hesitant” about vaccination. Or maybe they’re not panicking about something that isn’t worth panicking about. For Tingle, this supposed problem is Scott Morrison’s fault because he and Greg Hunt have been sending mixed messages about which vaccine to take and when. They’re not alone in the dock. With the sole exception of unwavering rationalists – those who insisted from the start that the official responses to COVID-19 have been hysterical, contrived and tendentious – commentators have made vague ‘messages’ the norm.

For the medical establishment – which has been making things up for sixteen months – a poultice of condescension and fear-mongering was concocted last week and clumsily applied to Hesitancy. Bruce Willett – vice-president of the Royal Australian College of GPs – claimed without evidence that waiting for a different vaccine is an “enormous risk.” No it isn’t – not in any actuary’s data set or bookie’s market. ‘Experts’ – and reporters eager to appear au fait with ‘the science’ (and remain persona grata) – told us going outside was a risk. Criminal nonsense that will live in infamy. They said going unmasked was a risk. Nope. In an April 2020 editorial, The Australian described young beach-goers at Bondi as a “thoughtless crowd.” There was no healthier place to be. Kayakers and rock fishermen were said to be endangering nursing homes. The ‘pandemic’ in Australia has been more like a Far Side cartoon than an emergency.

This. Is. Not. Sparta.

At every juncture of this man-made disaster, news cycle orthodoxies have been hastily scripted to make the public believe the state had an answer. If the answer was arresting a pregnant woman in front of her toddlers for a Facebook post, well gee – science. If there was a ‘spike’ or a ‘cluster’ or a ‘missing link’ or trouble with a ‘bubble,’ go after Sam Newman, cop-swarm an old lady on a park bench or ban dancing. The latest notion is that if – and only if – Australia’s entire tiny population is ‘vaccinated’ immediately, the economy will ‘open’ again, we’ll all be ‘safe’ (which we already are) and a relatively privileged minority will be able to fly overseas again. Don’t get me wrong: reviving an economy bashed by people who haven’t missed a pay cheque is important – as is the freedom to travel. What’s disappointing is watching the correctly sceptical realists of five minutes ago submit to Xerxes for a plane ticket. That’s not freedom; it’s a furlough.

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139 Responses to 30.0

  1. Dot says:

    COVID is simply a corrupt joke for public servants who don’t want to travel overseas.

    I have a contact in a NSW government Dept. who has worked from home for the last 16 months.

    She said everyone up to executive grade, has done virtually no work over that timeframe.

  2. Dot says:

    PS

    As long as she has a net enabled happy and her mobile and is contactable, she can go wherever she pleases.

  3. mundi says:

    From the begining, everyone who knew the medical science, said what they were doing was extremely questionable.

    AstraZeneca is a genetically modified chimpanzee virus, design to infect your cell, then when it goes to get copied its genetically modified to, brackdown into the RNA. The same RNA that is simply directly injected in the other vaccine.

    You would have to be insane to accept AstraZeneca over an RNA vaccine given the choice.

  4. stackja says:

    I have had AstraZeneca. 20 of my acquaintances have too. I do not understand the vaccine fuss. I do do agree Xi created the virus. The MSM not helpful, as usual.

  5. gary says:

    Covid hysteria is overkill promoted by the yellow press and the enemies of freedom – namely China (and yes the virus did get made in a lab in Wuhan).

    If Tokyo cancels the Olympics, Australia should offer to host them in July 2021 – the Gold Coast for one can do it and should do it. Apparently 80% of Japanese want to cancel the games, so come on Scomo, make a bid now.

    At the very least making a bid will give the hysterics a heart attack and we won’t have to listen to their anti science, hypocritical, hysterical whining.

  6. Riversutra says:

    What’s disappointing is watching the correctly sceptical realists of five minutes ago submit to Xerxes for a plane ticket. That’s not freedom; it’s a furlough.

    We have to remain realists. THEY control the world, They have won. The sheeple are truly stupid and scared and will remain so. The Media are the enforcers, not the police.
    We have to accept the Realpolitik if we ever want to travel our world again.
    Facts are the so called elites rule will not give up this control easily. And the mob will let them until the great saviour Inflation resets the world right.

  7. m0nty says:

    unwavering rationalists

    Mmyes, unwavering rationalists… who backed the Sweden laissez-faire response which was an abject failure in both health and economic aspects.

    If people like you were in charge, tens of thousands of Australians would have been sacrificed for nothing.

    No response has been perfect, but I would far rather have been here rather than Sweden or red states in America.

  8. Judge Dredd says:

    More people are smart enough to do the risk-reward analysis of taking a not-vaccine that’s been rushed in development for a disease that’s so deadly you have to take a test to know you’ve got it (and those tests are full of crap in any case).

  9. m0nty says:

    The key here is understanding that you lot are not actually skeptics, you are ideologues. If you were skeptics, you would not still be defending Sweden long after they themselves admitted they got it wrong. The scientists were wrong about outdoor transmission and made a mistake concentrating too much on surfaces and not airborne transmission, but they have changed their tune based on later data. You lot refuse to budge from your strong priors even in the face of overwhelming evidence from live experiments.

  10. Dot says:

    No response has been perfect, but I would far rather have been here rather than Sweden or red states in America.

    Like New York and New York City?

  11. Boxcar says:

    In his astounding interview with Tucker Carlson, Dr. Peter McCullough commented that top medical authorities around the world, like Yale, Johns Hopkins, etc, had published endless instructions of what NOT to do about Wuflu, but not one authority anywhere on the planet had published a single guideline for preventative or prophylactic measures.
    .
    He didn’t explain why, but time had shown that the herd instinct, which is so strong in all of use, led politicians to follow the protected path emanating from the politically driven CDC.
    Doing the right thing would have exposed their cowardice and stupidity.
    I doubt we will ever get to the Nuremberg trials this all deserves.

  12. Dot says:

    The key to understanding Munster is that he couldn’t pass 1st year economics.

    Lazy and stupid.

  13. mh says:

    What’s disappointing is watching the correctly sceptical realists of five minutes ago submit to Xerxes for a plane ticket. That’s not freedom; it’s a furlough.

    Morning, Sinclair.

  14. herodotus says:

    If the answer was arresting a pregnant woman in front of her toddlers for a Facebook post, well gee – science.
    Science as a valid term has been trashed by the left, along with racist, democracy, justice, equality – in fact most of the terms they use.

  15. Roger says:

    Op-ed in the Courier-Mail:”

    “We need to stop being soft on the vaccine hesitant.”

  16. Forester says:

    I thought Sweden fared no worse than most western countries.

    They did not have the early influx of infected Chinese textile workers released by Emperor Xi to northern Italy after the Chinese new year.

    Most of regional Australia hasn’t had a first wave yet, most of our susceptible are vaccinated. Victorian’s got what they thought they deserved for re-electing the trade union party good and hard.

    We might survive this latest CCP flu, but not the Government’s $2 trillion debt.

  17. Boambee John says:

    No response has been perfect, but I would far rather have been here rather than Sweden or red states in America.

    How about New York fatso?

  18. mh says:

    I do do agree Xi created the virus.

    Stack, with the realisation now that Anthony Fauci was using the Wuhan bio lab to outsource gain of function research, your assertion looks less likely.

  19. Rosie says:

    Red states worse than blue states.

    Any empirical evidence to support that claim?

  20. Roger says:

    A UK journalist on the media’s shameless covid scaremongering:

    Through ignorance and a desire to make things seem as terrible as possible—in the misguided belief this would save lives— …we have fanned the flames of fear and helped create the society that the government psychologists wanted, with non-compliance being the subject of social disapproval. In fact it has gone much further than that, with non-compliance avidly hated by many who do conform.

    The vitriol and scorn from many of our reader comments to stories is extreme—to the extent they wish anyone breaking regulations “catch the virus and die”. These comments are sickening to read and show that much of the public has been deeply programmed by the fear propaganda and psychological manipulation that we, the press, perpetuate on behalf of our government.

    RTWT

  21. John Bayley says:

    She said everyone up to executive grade, has done virtually no work over that timeframe.

    That’s excellent news.
    Can I suggest that they all continue to ‘do no work’ and leave the rest of us alone, so we can get on with earning a living without being subject to ever more stupid, useless regulations and taxes?

  22. Boambee John says:

    Rosie

    You are responding to the fat fascist fool munty. Empirical evidence is not his scene.

  23. Roger says:

    No response has been perfect, but I would far rather have been here rather than Sweden

    Sweden did better than most of Europe, monty.

    In fact, they did better than countries which imposed the strictest lockdowns, such as the UK and the Czech Republic.

  24. stackja says:

    “Faucet” is a drip.

  25. Tony Taylor says:

    I asked this on Twitter yesterday, but no one replied.

    How many Aussies have had AZ and how many have had clots?

    How many Aussies have had a flu shot in a normal year and how many have had an adverse reaction?

  26. Snoopy says:

    Has any of the much-hyped Covid positive sewerage samples ever lead to the identification of a Covid outbreak?

  27. Roger says:

    How many Aussies have had AZ and how many have had clots?

    Figures I saw last week were 1.8m and 18 respectively.

    How many Aussies have had a flu shot in a normal year and how many have had an adverse reaction?

    Don’t know, but anecdotal evidence suggests adverse reactions to AZ run very high. I don’t know of anyone who’s had it who hasn’t felt ill afterwards.

  28. m0nty says:

    Red states worse than blue states.

    Any empirical evidence to support that claim?

    Rate of coronavirus (COVID-19) cases in the United States as of May 21, 2021, by state(per 100,000 people)

    Lot of red states in that top ten.

  29. Matt says:

    How many Aussies have had AZ and how many have had clots?

    According to this:
    – 2.1 million doses AZ
    – 21 cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome confirmed by TGA (24 reported)

  30. m0nty says:

    Don’t know, but anecdotal evidence suggests adverse reactions to AZ run very high. I don’t know of anyone who’s had it who hasn’t felt ill afterwards.

    That’s the vaccine working, you idiot.

  31. stackja says:

    MSM clots?

  32. Matt says:

    And for influenza vaccine (in 2018):
    234 serious adverse events
    ~12 million vaccine doses

  33. Roger says:

    That’s the vaccine working, you idiot.

    Er…monty, adverse reactions to vaccines are important medical data and are recorded by law, both so as to monitor the safety of vaccines and to uphold public confidence in vaccine programs.

    And the ad hom is the last (or in this case the first) resort of the defeated.

  34. mh says:

    Roger, were you referring to PVO? Or has the Courier Mail got another one?
    Maybe the meme has gone out.

    To be sure, the vaccine rollout has long way to go. But Australians’ hesitancy is the bigger threat to herd immunity.
    By PETER VAN ONSELEN

  35. Damon says:

    “If Tokyo cancels the Olympics, Australia should offer to host them in July 2021“
    Nonsense. Who wants them? A few politicians who would like to grandstand on the world stage, and sports bureaucrats. They are a television event, so give them a permanent home (Greece), and forget about them. Even better, hold different events in different countries.

  36. Roger says:

    Another one, mh.

    As CL noted, “hesitancy” is the new journalistic buzz word.

  37. m0nty says:

    Er…monty, adverse reactions to vaccines are important medical data and are recorded by law, both so as to monitor the safety of vaccines and to uphold public confidence in vaccine programs.

    In the 99,999 out of 100,000 vaccinations where there is not an adverse reaction, everyone feels ill after the shot. Feeling ill is not an adverse reaction. You idiot.

  38. Roger says:

    Here are some more inconvenient facts for you, monty:

    Covid mortality rates per millikon

    Czech Republic 2 616.57

    Belgium 2 046.58

    UK 1 898.03

    Spain 1 625.54

    Portugal 1647.42

    France 1 457.09

    Sweden 1 324.30

    Sweden had no lockdown (unlike the other countries listed above) and simply recommended, but did not mandate, social distancing measures.

  39. mh says:

    Ontario
    Ice cream and a live DJ

    Andrew Baback Boozary MD
    @drandrewb
    ·
    May 22
    Holiday news: our pop-up vaccine team is coming to Nathan Phillips Square for 12+ year olds this Sunday.

    social medicine kicker: free ice cream with the vaccine 🍦

    https://twitter.com/drandrewb/status/1395792163259260933?s=20

  40. FlyingPigs says:

    Monty

    How about rate of DEATHS verses cases

    Death rates from coronavirus (COVID-19) in the United States as of May 21, 2021, by state

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

  41. jupes says:

    In Australia, only one person — a 48-year-old woman — has died from the AstraZeneca vaccine, and she had other serious medical issues.

    In Australia in 2021, only one person – a 77-year-old man – has died from coronavirus, and he had other serious medical issues.

  42. Roger W says:

    “… you would not still be defending Sweden long after they themselves admitted they got it wrong.”
    For the record, Sweden has never “admitted they got it wrong”, and the figures around the world show they in fact have done quite well – compared with the UK, Belgium, the USA and Canada, to name just a few. More intriguing are the figures for places like Singapore and Taiwan. There are clearly no simple answers to what works re covid, and certainly not simply lockdowns and masks.

    Here are the current details for a number of countries:

    Sweden cases 1.06m deaths 14,366 pop (approx.) 10m
    Australia 30,004 910 25m
    Belgium 1.04m 24,809 12m
    Canada 1.36m 25,203 37m
    Denmark 272,000 2,506 6m
    France 5.92m 108,000 65m
    Germany 3.65m 87,303 84m
    Israel 839,000 6,397 9m
    Italy 4.18m 125,000 61m
    Japan 711,000 12,119 127m
    Netherlands 1.62m 17,518 17m
    Singapore 61,770 32 6m
    Spain 3.64m 79,620 47m
    Switzerland 686,000 10,768 9m
    Taiwan 3,139 15 24m
    UK 4.46m 128,000 68m
    USA 33.1m 589,000 330m

  43. Roger says:

    Feeling ill is not an adverse reaction. You idiot.

    The hole is getting deeper monty.

    “What is an ADR (Adverse Drug Reaction)?

    ADRs are unwanted or harmful reactions to medicines that were taken under normal conditions of use. These reactions are related to the medicines themselves rather than other factors (PEP n.d.).

    Any medicine has the potential to cause an adverse drug reaction, even those derived from natural sources (Healthdirect 2018).

    ADRs can range from minor, uncomfortable side effects to dangerous and potentially life-threatening reactions (Smith 2013).

    I bolded the relevant part for you.

    RTWT if you wish to be further informed.

    The references to official documents are particularly helpful.

  44. exsteelworker says:

    Hopefully, this work from home pampered ” public servants ” scam, governments wake up now and realise that they don’t need so many pampered public ” leaches ” servants. We are the most overgovernd country on earth, time for a major cull of big fat bloated government bureaucracies. We’ll save billions per year.

  45. Forester says:

    Tony Taylor says at 10:14 am
    How many Aussies have had AZ and how many have had clots?

    How many Aussies have had a flu shot in a normal year and how many have had an adverse reaction?

    Others have provided numbers…

    I’ve read references to the background level of clots, but not ‘background level of clots after having a normal flu jab’.

    I get annual normal flu shots at work, about every fifth one I get a mild ‘man flu’, I reckon it shows it’s working, I’m probably wrong.

    I just had my AZ jab, and had a strong ‘man flu’ reaction, as bad as, if not worse than previous ‘man flus’. I’m fine now, it was more like the ’24 hour’ colds and flus I had when I was younger, I’d get the shivers when going to bed, sweat a bit and then I’d be fine the following afternoon.

    I’d like to pretend it might protect me from Emperor Xi’s next release, I might get really sick but not die.

  46. stackja says:

    One side effect of the Wuhan virus. Fewer flu deaths? Fewer cancer deaths?

  47. Rosie says:

    Did Monty actually say that.

    He’s silly.

  48. Rosie says:

    Probably more cancer deaths, and more heart attack deaths due to slower ambulance response times.

  49. Roger says:

    He’s silly.

    Worse, he chooses to be vincibly ignorant.

  50. Ed Case says:

    Iatrogenic Causes are vastly underestimated as the Cause of Death, so you can take the 234 adverse reactions out of 12 million Jabs with a pinch of salt.
    The 12 million number presumably means 6 million have had the shot twice, though i’d doubt those figures.
    If they’re not vaccinating under 18s, then a majority of Adults have lined up for the shot.
    I’m finding that hard to believe, particularly since it appears 0% of Front Line Medicos have taken it.

  51. thefrollickingmole says:

    m0nty says:
    May 23, 2021 at 9:23 am

    Use this, work out you potential chance of death and get back to us.

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/covid-mortality-risk

  52. m0nty says:

    For the record, Sweden has never “admitted they got it wrong”

    This zombie lie has a lot of followers on this site.

    Sweden’s king has said his country “failed” to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus pandemic.

    King Carl XVI Gustaf made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family.

    Sweden, which has never imposed a full lockdown, has seen nearly 350,000 cases and more than 7,800 deaths – a lot more than its Scandinavian neighbours.

    Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said he agreed with the king’s remarks.

    “Of course the fact that so many have died can’t be considered as anything other than a failure,” Mr Lofven told reporters.

    I have linked that story before, but evidently people would rather remember the lies they were told because they suit their strong priors.

  53. m0nty says:

    As Lofven says, the true comparison is with other Scandinavian countries, and on that score Sweden was an abject failure, as its own leaders admitted five months ago.

  54. thefrollickingmole says:

    Monty.

    Riddle me this.

    Why is the AZ jab considered unsuitable for under 50s?

    (Big hint: because the chance of an adverse reaction outweighs the benefits of the vaccine for that age group)

  55. Dot says:

    You’ve been owned monty.

    UK big lockdown: more deaths than Sweden per capita.

    New York: big lockdown, absolutely appalling results.

  56. m0nty says:

    Why is the AZ jab considered unsuitable for under 50s?

    An overabundance of caution. CL may make puns on it, but doctors do obey the Hippocratic Oath which means they don’t want to cause a blood clot, even though the chance of a blood clot from the COVID vaccine is significantly lower than the chance of a blood clot when you actually contract COVID in the wild. That’s part of their creed, it’s frustrating but you can understand them wanting to do no harm as their primary directive.

  57. Chester Draws says:

    I go to this site from time to time. You can sort by the only statistic that is reasonable — deaths per million.

    Sweden was at about 10th and all the fear-mongers were crowing. It is slowly sliding down. It is now at 33rd, and slipping further as all the countries that dodged a wave get it. It will end up better than most European countries.

    It also didn’t destroy its economy. It has had to deal with other countries destroying their economy, which had flow on effects.

    Nor did it take a year’s schooling from its kids.

    Sweden’s approach has been resoundingly successful. Initial pain has led to a much quicker recovery, without people scared to live their lives.

    And when the Swedes accept that they made mistakes, they don’t accept that avoiding lockdown was one. They are talking about not closing old folks homes. Not wishing they had joined the lemming rush over the cliff.

    Oh, and it does the US by states. Good luck finding any evidence that Blue did better than Red there. The pattern is high density is bad, and lots of poor people is bad.

  58. Dot says:

    He’s back!

    The man, the myth, the legend!

  59. duncanm says:

    For those quoting Sweden — no conclusions can be drawn until the whole pandemic – and its subsequent waves over the next few years – have concluded.

    Isolated Pacific Islands who avoided the initial 1918 flu pandemic lost just as many people from it over the subsequent decades due to lack of immunity.

  60. mh says:

    …as its own leaders admitted five months ago.

    Links, please.

  61. Frank says:

    but doctors do obey the Hippocratic Oath which means they don’t want to cause a blood clot, even though the chance of a blood clot from the COVID vaccine is significantly lower than the chance of a blood clot when you actually contract COVID in the wild.

    Not even wrong.

  62. Tony Taylor says:

    Thanks.

    So, back of an envelope: AZ has one in 100,000 clots and flu has one in 51,000 events.

    Now I need AZ events.

    Think I’ll quit before I start drawing any daft confusions.

  63. Tel says:

    https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/covid-19-death-rates-by-state/

    Higher death rates tend to somewhat be associated with leftwing political leanings. That does not prove causality of course, but it is indicative.

    There must be a certain amount of randomness involved … Arizona did a lot worse than Texas and they have similar climate, similar populations, similar politics.

    Connecticut did much worse than Delaware and they have very similar politics and quite similar COVID policies too.

  64. Mango Man says:

    Criticising Tingle I understand. Opposing vaccination is stupid. We need our borders open. We need to build total population immunity. The longer we go with the closed mentality and the false comfort, the greater the risk that we join the many others who’d been smashed by the virus. Hunt and others should forget their desire for an early election and go hard on pushing vaccination. Now.
    By the way, it is illogical to oppose lockdowns and vaccination.

  65. m0nty says:

    Links, please.

    I just linked it, mh. Do keep up, there’s a dear.

  66. win says:

    What does it say about the Courier Mail and its hacks that they push a vaccine for Corvid 19 but say sod all about their Premier who will gaol doctors who use the early Corvid 19 treatments that have saved lives around the world.

  67. mh says:

    Thanks Monty, I’d skipped that one.

    I think we can unanimously conclude that Swedish men sit down to take a piss.

  68. rickw says:

    The Victorian Stasi are promising a crackdown on non mask wearers on public transport.

    Bring it on you Nazi Fuckwits.

  69. thefrollickingmole says:

    m0nty says:
    May 23, 2021 at 11:14 am
    Why is the AZ jab considered unsuitable for under 50s?

    An overabundance of caution.

    Because the risk/reward tradeoff for under 50’s (without co-morbidities) is too high.

    Its an inflammatory disease of the elderly, who (and this is science) suffer more from overreactions of the inflammatory effects of diseases as part of growing older.

    Playing ‘rona theatre by pretending its a community wide risk, rather than a risk to the elderly/vulnerable (which by the way is the same groups at risk from normal flu) is incredibly damaging to vaccines reputation (I am pro vaccination) and has been used to severely mutilate and deform the norms of government and healthcare in Australia.

    Heres the Pomgolian experience.
    https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2021/january/12000-fewer-heart-operations-in-england

    The latest figures show the seismic impact of the pandemic on potentially life saving surgery and other procedures for heart patients as the NHS is pushed to breaking point by surging Covid-19 cases.

    Around a third fewer heart operations than expected were performed by the end of November 2020 in England, the analysis found. In total, the number of heart operations, such as coronary bypass and heart valve surgery, fell to around 25,000 by the end of the November lockdown from 37,000 during the same period in 2019.

    Other invasive heart procedures, such as fitting stents or balloons to open blocked arteries, have been impacted too. In total, around 96,000 fewer heart operations and procedures than expected took place in the year to November 2020 in England compared to the same period in 2019.

  70. Paul says:

    countries with good healthcare

    So looks like we’ve missed out again.

    We must have too many lefty experts of the political class.

    I’m hoping for a govt that one day can sack all of these experts who are wrong

  71. rickw says:

    Sweden, which has never imposed a full lockdown, has seen nearly 350,000 cases and more than 7,800 deaths – a lot more than its Scandinavian neighbours.

    The issue is there’s never an identical control to test the premise. The argument is based on a presumption of efficacy. The logic is the same as for Gun Control.

    Co-Morbities are gunna died. Psychopaths are gunna kill. What you do to “prevent” either doesn’t necessarily have much influence.

  72. John Bayley says:

    Hopefully, this work from home pampered ” public servants ” scam, governments wake up now and realise that they don’t need so many pampered public ” leaches ” servants.

    That will happen at about the same time the politicians admit that ‘renewables’ don’t work.

    In other words, after the economy has fallen off a cliff.

  73. duncanm says:

    Tony Taylor says:
    May 23, 2021 at 11:29 am
    Thanks.

    So, back of an envelope: AZ has one in 100,000 clots and flu has one in 51,000 events.

    Now I need AZ events.

    The UK:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions

  74. Tel says:

    Riddle me this.

    Why is the AZ jab considered unsuitable for under 50s?

    Because the numpties already paid and now need to use it up on someone … but if a photogenic young lady goes down in a hail of AZ blood clots, the political kickback will be severe … while offloading it onto the older population means they can wave it away easily, “Would have died anyhow.”

    As many pointed out over and over … when it came to COVID any death with a positive test result was a COVID death and if grandma dies at age 80 from a virus we all need to hang our heads in shame because somehow it’s our fault. But the reverse applies to vaccines: if you get the vaccine and then die (e.g. Marvellous Marvin) there is strangely no evidence of any connection, and if grandma dies at age 80 from a vaccine that’s no one’s fault and nothing whatsoever can be done about that. Pragmatically applied use of pragmatism … a.k.a. double standards.

  75. Shane says:

    Laura Tingle is obviously not into self reflection much less reading minor classics like 1984.
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/524338-no-vaccine-hate-crime-hypocrisy/
    ”We hear so much in woke Britain about ‘hate crime’ and how terrible it is. But right now, we’re in the midst of an extremely nasty campaign against those who don’t wish to take a Covid vaccine and somehow that’s deemed acceptable.
    “The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretence was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one’s will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp.” From George Orwell’s ‘1984.’

    “Selfish idiots.” “Refuseniks.” “Anti-vaxxer loonies.” “Holding the country to ransom.” “A menace to their own health and ours.” “They’re like drink drivers.” Just a few of the insults that have been hurled at Brits who, despite the biggest drug promotion campaign in our history, have decided they don’t wish to take one of the new-on-the-market Covid vaccine”

  76. Professor Fred Lenin says:

    These people making light of the chinese bio war virus ,I mean ,over 800 Victorians died due to corruption in the andrews government handling of quarantine ,many thousands have died in Europe and third world countries like the USA and India , it must be wreaking havoc in Pakistan and Africa and these critics mock people who get vaccinated
    That happened in Bradford and Blackburn in England untill a returning Indian resident brought the Indian Variant of the chinese bio war virus , now the mockers are in lines a mile long to get the vaccine they mocked .

  77. bespoke says:

    What’s disappointing is watching the correctly sceptical realists of five minutes ago submit to Xerxes for a plane ticket. That’s not freedom; it’s a furlough.

    Well none lives without compromise and I haven’t seen the any evidence by the ‘truth’ Sayers are doing anything different. Not that I expect too just…

  78. bespoke says:

    them too just…

  79. Boambee John says:

    Tel

    Higher death rates tend to somewhat be associated with leftwing political leanings. That does not prove causality of course, but it is indicative.

    Indicative of poor public administration.

  80. Rosie says:

    Sweden is admitting it failed its frail elderly by not isolating nursing homes early enough, not til 1 April and then not giving them hospital beds which it reserved for others, only offering palliative care to frail elderly.

    So yes they should be ashamed.

  81. C.L. says:

    Criticising Tingle I understand. Opposing vaccination is stupid.

    I’m not sure who has ‘opposed vaccination.’

    We need our borders open.

    So open them.

    We need to build total population immunity.

    There is no such thing for coronaviruses, never has been and never will be.

    The longer we go with the closed mentality and the false comfort…

    The fact that we live on a mostly empty island isn’t a “closed mentality”. It is a geological reality.

    …the greater the risk that we join the many others who’ve been smashed by the virus.

    Why didn’t that happen already?

    go hard on pushing vaccination. Now.

    Would you like non-vaccinated people to be forcibly injected by the police?

    it is illogical to oppose lockdowns

    Comparative studies prove that lockdowns made no difference to the vicissitudes of the viral impact. This is now accepted scientific fact.

  82. duncanm says:

    Mango Man says:
    May 23, 2021 at 11:34 am

    By the way, it is illogical to oppose lockdowns …

    what the fuck are you doing out of your house, then? Get back inside and stay there for the next ten years.

    You know its the right thing to do.

  83. Lee says:

    By the way, it is illogical to oppose lockdowns and vaccination.

    Too stupid and ignorant for words.

  84. Simple Simon says:

    It bears repeating.

    Chester Draws says:
    May 23, 2021 at 11:16 am

    I go to this site from time to time. You can sort by the only statistic that is reasonable — deaths per million.

    Sweden was at about 10th and all the fear-mongers were crowing. It is slowly sliding down. It is now at 33rd, and slipping further as all the countries that dodged a wave get it. It will end up better than most European countries.

    It also didn’t destroy its economy. It has had to deal with other countries destroying their economy, which had flow on effects.

    Nor did it take a year’s schooling from its kids.

    Sweden’s approach has been resoundingly successful. Initial pain has led to a much quicker recovery, without people scared to live their lives.

    And when the Swedes accept that they made mistakes, they don’t accept that avoiding lockdown was one. They are talking about not closing old folks homes. Not wishing they had joined the lemming rush over the cliff.

    Oh, and it does the US by states. Good luck finding any evidence that Blue did better than Red there. The pattern is high density is bad, and lots of poor people is bad.

    Chester Draws wins the thread.

  85. Doctor John says:

    Monty,
    I asked a doctor if he had taken the Hippocratic oath and he told me he had not. He was given a copy along with his degree at his graduation. I understand that doctors do not take the oath and are not obliged to obey it.

  86. Kneel says:

    “By the way, it is illogical to oppose lockdowns and vaccination.”

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ron-desantis-jayanta-bhattacharya-stanford-stunned-coronavirus-florida


    Stanford medical professor ‘stunned’ by DeSantis’s coronavirus knowledge, says ‘most epidemiologists’ less informed

    “I mean, most, most epidemiologists don’t know the literature as well as he does. I mean, I just, I don’t have the words. … I’ve just been, I’m still stunned by it. I didn’t know anything about him, actually, before, you know, basically before September, really. I’ve just been very impressed.”

    In Florida, schools have been open for face-to-face the entire year, vaccination has prioritised the elderly, mask mandates are not in force and bars and restaurants are open.
    Despite this, and despite the fact that Florida has a slightly larger and much older population than New York and New Jersey – both of which had long periods of lockdowns and mask mandates – Florida is near the middle of US states for cases and deaths, while New Jersey and New York are the top 2.
    Despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth, Texas did not see a massive increase in either cases or deaths after opening up, while California, which is keeping it’s mask mandates and lockdowns as long as possible, is seeing a surge in both.
    As per the quoted article, Florida is the one following the actual science, and is doing OK CV-wise, and great economy-wise.

    Florida is also “pro-choice” when it comes to vaccines – if you want it, you can have it, if you don’t want it, that is fine. They have prioritised the at risk, as they should, but the choice remains. And there is a law preventing any sort of vaccine passport, cementing the sovereignty of the individual to make health choices for themselves, based their own informed consent.

    Following the actual data, rather than having a laser-like focus on trying to save every last person actually saves more lives. Hysterical political grandstanding does what it always does – costs lives and livelyhoods.
    Get rid of the emotional arguments and follow the data, you will get the best outcome. Allow individuals to make their own choices with real risk/benefit data and the wisdom of the crowd will prevail, providing optimum outcomes.
    This should all be obvious from both current and historical data regarding respiratory virus’, but it doesn’t make for good theater, so the Corporate Press would rather make bold headlines and click-bait rubbish than tell the truth – simply, it makes them more cash.

  87. Leo G says:

    In the 99,999 out of 100,000 vaccinations where there is not an adverse reaction, everyone feels ill after the shot. Feeling ill is not an adverse reaction. You idiot.

    You appear to be misunderstanding the AEFI classification system.
    Adverse effects following immunisation (AEFI) are very common. “Feeling ill” is likely to be regarded as an AEFI, as is even a crying episode.
    The context suggests you were referring to “serious reaction”, which is the international regulatory term for reactions causing death, hospitalisation, persistent disability, significant disability, or which are otherwise life-threatening.

  88. bespoke says:

    Get rid of the emotional arguments and follow the data, you will get the best outcome. Allow individuals to make their own choices with real risk/benefit data and the wisdom of the crowd will prevail, providing optimum outcomes.

    👍

  89. m0nty says:

    It also didn’t destroy its economy. It has had to deal with other countries destroying their economy, which had flow on effects.

    Cross-country effects and policy responses to COVID-19 in 2020: The Nordic countries

    We find that: (1) Sweden is an outlier, relative to its Nordic neighbours, in its COVID-19 public health outcomes; (2) Sweden would have had reduced cases and fatalities if it had adopted the air border closures implemented by its Nordic neighbours in the first half of 2020; and, (3) for OECD Europe, there is a statistically significant and negative association between per capita COVID-19 fatalities and economic performance.

    In other words, Sweden would have had a better health outcome and a better economic outcome if it had locked down like its Nordic neighbours.

    You can’t get any clearer an experiment than that. The science is in: the “skeptics” who continue to refuse to accept that Sweden was a failure are dead wrong.

  90. Boambee John says:

    You can’t get any clearer an experiment than that. The science is in: the “skeptics” who continue to refuse to accept that Sweden was a failure are dead wrong.

    The idiots who refuse to accept that Sweden, like Victoria, had a major problem with nursing homes, are dead wrong.

    Fixed that for the fool.

  91. Mango Man says:

    Evidently there are people who literally know better than the experts. On everything.

  92. mh says:

    First sin bin in the Parra Manly blockbuster.

  93. mh says:

    Oops, wrong thread!

  94. Xenophon says:

    Mango is quite right in saying you either have vaccination or lockdowns. You can’t oppose both and sustain logic.

  95. Mango Man says:

    CL: I meant to acknowledge that of course you didn’t oppose vaccination. Just as you didn’t say the entire medical scientific community had faked COVID.
    What you did is embroider a whole bunch of whiney smartarsery that in effect made you the arbiter of the entire situation – yet offered not a single ounce of constructive opinion.

  96. Dot says:

    Xenophon says:
    May 23, 2021 at 4:50 pm
    Mango is quite right in saying you either have vaccination or lockdowns. You can’t oppose both and sustain logic.

    No – there is no need for both. We’ve been told herd immunity cannot be conferred.

    Perhaps the world’s most useless vaccine.

  97. Dot says:

    In other words, Sweden would have had a better health outcome and a better economic outcome if it had locked down like its Nordic neighbours.

    The bolded part is literally insane.

  98. Lee says:

    Mango is quite right in saying you either have vaccination or lockdowns. You can’t oppose both and sustain logic.

    Oh, is that so?
    Thanks for correcting us (/sarc off).

  99. C.L. says:

    Mango, it’s pretty well known here that I belong to the rationalist camp that says, protect the vulnerable, encourage good hygiene via government messaging, vaccinate those who wish to be vaccinated and carry on as usual.

    I’ve stated this case at length before.

    There is no point in mouthy elites waging yet another wankers’ war on an underclass because people cannot be needled by force and there is nothing the state can do about that.

    There is something deeply insane and Hitlerian about any final solution that involves Getting everybody who can be Got. It is the thinking of totalitarian lunatics.

    I find it bizarre how frightened the allegedly vaccinated are of the un-vaccinated. You believe that stuff works, right?

  100. Squirrel says:

    It’s OK, we can all relax, because the blessed news – just in time for the Sunday night bulletins – is that there’ll be plane-loads of Pfizer doses jetting into the country by October and that will be enough for all willing jabbees to be jabbed (possibly even vaccinated) by the end of 2021.

    Whether this actually happens remains to be seen – it was only a couple of weeks ago that AZ sceptics were being bullied, shamed and threatened with the borders being opened before they might (with added emphasis) get access to a non-AZ vaccine.

    There’s also, of course, the possibility of disruptions or diversions of the promised Pfizer supply – in which case we’ll be back to the artfully worded propaganda which explains why no sane person could possibly have any doubts about AZ.

    The other high-profile news today is that Pfizer has been markedly more effective than AZ in dealing with the variants of the virus circulating in the UK – this might have something to do with this afternoon’s “pop the corks” Pfizer supply announcement for Straya.

    The more relevant picture emerging from overseas experience may be that a dramatic reduction in infections and deaths is occurring with vaccination rates that should be achieved here quite easily – even without (or in spite of) the now incessant and quite strident hectoring and bullying from vested interests, and even if the promised Pfizer supplies have marginal impact.

  101. m0nty says:

    The bolded part is literally insane.

    The study shows there is a statistically significant correlation between more deaths and a bigger economic hit. You have to be able to rationalise why that is the case, if you want to explain what’s going on.

    My theory is that the indirect economic hit from low consumer confidence during a pandemic is bigger than the direct economic hit from lockdowns temporarily shuttering businesses. It would be a bugger of a job separating the two effects to prove it statistically, so it will forever remain a theory.

    What do you reckon is the reason for the correlation, Dot?

  102. Dot says:

    Lock down the economy for a year and claim a ridiculous correlation?

    You imbecile.

  103. m0nty says:

    So you have no intelligent response, Dot. Lucky you have law training now, your economics grounding isn’t great.

  104. Rex Anger says:

    @ Dot-

    Benito M0ntylini’s comment about a ‘better economic outcome’ makes perfect sense if you follow the reasoning that a crashed economy and restive people, terrfied of their own snuffling, coughing shadows, should run headlong into the comforting embrace of oligarchical fascism (Great Reset/Build Back Better/Social Just-US).

    Il Dunce accepts and desires the ‘New Normal’ his fellow bugmen have created for us, and thinks anyone else who doesn’t escstatically agree are the insane ones…

  105. mh says:

    There is something deeply insane and Hitlerian about any final solution that involves Getting everybody who can be Got. It is the thinking of totalitarian lunatics.

    Like Bill Gates:

    “And then the Final Solution, which is a year to two years off, is the vaccine”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjY-SZJoFxs

  106. mh says:

    That Final Solution video is interesting in that Bill Gates talks about the treatment phase.

    That phase subsequently got stomped on.

  107. Tim Neilson says:

    and, (3) for OECD Europe, there is a statistically significant and negative association between per capita COVID-19 fatalities and economic performance.

    Notice the magic missing word from this?
    Yes – it doesn’t say “Sweden”.

    Also note that point (2) in m0nty’s list refers only to a hypothesis about air border closures, not to facts about lockdowns etc.

    And as for point (1), why is “Nordic” the sample? A sample size of 3 isn’t normally statistically significant. If it was we could prove that head is twice as likely to come up in a coin toss as tails. Why isn’t there a broader comparison? E.g. Sweden has historically had very close relations with the Baltic states.

    Still, m0nty does provide a useful service in being a living textbook example of confirmation bias.

  108. Lizzi55 says:

    58% of people who take the AZ jab get adverse reactions, and 1.3% go to hospital or seek medical assistance after getting jabbed.
    3 million people jabbed in Australia, means 39000 people in Australia have suffered severe adverse reactions to the jab.
    Link below:
    https://www.ausvaxsafety.org.au/safety-data/covid-19-vaccines

  109. Matt says:

    Lizzi55 says:
    May 23, 2021 at 7:05 pm

    * Surveys sent on Day 3 post vaccination. NOTE: Adverse events are self-reported, have not been clinically verified, and do not necessarily have a causal relationship with the vaccine.

  110. Leo G says:

    It’s OK, we can all relax, because the blessed news – just in time for the Sunday night bulletins – is that there’ll be plane-loads of Pfizer doses jetting into the country by October and that will be enough for all willing jabbees to be jabbed (possibly even vaccinated) by the end of 2021.

    Is that good news, though?
    An issue epidemiologists have been raising relates to the development of more dangerous new COVID strains under vaccination regimes where the vaccine efficacies are inferior to the immunity acquired as a result of COVID infection.
    Do we really want to commit to a vaccination regime that is likely to produce new virus strains that are both more virulent and more infectious than those presently circulating?
    Surely it is better to vaccinate only those at significant risk, to use only those vaccines with the highest attainable efficacy, to allow the availability of effective therapeutics and prophylactics, and to be prepared at times to properly quarantine places where the most at-risk are clustered.

  111. Arky says:

    One of your best CL.

  112. thefrollickingmole says:

    Notice Monty and the pro camp completely sidestepping the info above that in the UK alone nearly 100,000 life saving surgeries for cardiac conditions were cancelled/not done in in 2020.

    Now add cancer and other diseases and claim the economic tradeoff was worth it.

  113. Rosie says:

    I agree CL.

    But the government won’t do that in a hurry.

  114. Mango Man says:

    CL: Yes, I believe the vaccines work. Remember polio?

  115. Snoopy says:

    100,000 life saving surgeries for cardiac conditions were cancelled/not done in in 2020.

    Now add cancer and other diseases and claim the economic tradeoff was worth it.

    Mmm, yes Mole, but aren’t you overlooking the economic stimulus created by thousands of hospital staff Tik Tok dance videos?

  116. Leo G says:

    Remember polio?

    You must mean wild polio who we haven’t seen much of since the late 1970s.
    We now have “vaccine-derived” new polio causing more paralysis than is the old wild one.
    I recall a hypothesis that polio was a zoonosis that hitched a ride from cattle to people on the dirty old smallpox vaccination train.

  117. Dot says:

    m0nty says:
    May 23, 2021 at 6:24 pm
    So you have no intelligent response, Dot. Lucky you have law training now, your economics grounding isn’t great.

    You mentally repulsive degenerate.

    The private sector was hamstrung for a year now we have price increases like building commodities seeing double digit inflation (like lumber).

    There’s no net benefit you absolute goose.

    Copper
    Corn
    Lumber
    Coffee
    Cotton
    Aluminium
    Iron ore
    Wheat

    How is this a good thing? We are close to having shortages as we wrote off a year of production. If more is being produced now (a supposed recovery), then prices should FALL.

  118. stackja says:

    I survived the 1940s diseases. And the 1950s diseases. Now, so far, I have survived the early 2000s diseases.

  119. C.L. says:

    You’re a survivor, Stack.
    Glad to have you with us!

  120. Dot says:

    have not been clinically verified

    Neither are COVID deaths.

    No serology, just educated guesses.

  121. C.L. says:

    Squirrel says:
    May 23, 2021 at 5:51 pm

    Can’t bowl, can’t bat, can’t message.

    I see FitzSimons has now joined the vaccination drive – with mockery and proposals for civil punishments of various kinds. You know your cause is a quality one when Pete joins the team.

  122. Boambee John says:

    I’m not sure whether munty’s total inability to comprehend anything more complex than fantasy football is displayed better here or on the Big Batteries thread.

    Regardless, it is now incontrovertible.

  123. dover_beach says:

    Why isn’t there a broader comparison? E.g. Sweden has historically had very close relations with the Baltic states.

    Tough question. Really tough question. Let me think on it.

  124. Tim Neilson says:

    NOTE: Adverse events are self-reported, have not been clinically verified, and do not necessarily have a causal relationship with the vaccine.

    Yes Matt, there are often problems like that with data.

    Such as the following from the CDC:

    The number of COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infections reported to CDC likely are an undercount of all SARS-CoV-2 infections among fully vaccinated persons. National surveillance relies on passive and voluntary reporting, and data might not be complete or representative.

  125. Tim Neilson says:

    Sorry, link didn’t work. It’s second comment down on the new “Fauci flip-flop” thread.

  126. ozman says:

    From the CDC a paper which states there was no virus in the first place to work with, so the fake tests were concocted without one. Detection of 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) by real-time RT-PCR:

    Background: The ongoing outbreak of the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) poses a challenge for public health laboratories as virus isolates are unavailable while there is growing evidence that the outbreak is more widespread than initially thought, and international spread through travellers does already occur.

    Aim: We aimed to develop and deploy robust diagnostic methodology for use in public health laboratory settings without having virus material available.

    Methods: Here we present a validated diagnostic workflow for 2019-nCoV, its design relying on close genetic relatedness of 2019-nCoV with SARS coronavirus, making use of synthetic nucleic acid technology.

    This is a total farce. We are all being stooged.

    Yet stackja thinks there is nothing to worry about. There is nothing to worry about if you received a placebo. There are also those receiving a half-dose. But methinks the poison is in the vaccine. Especially, when I heard Dr. Sir John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at Oxford University and member of the COVID task force, state that it is doubtful that there will be 100% success in sterilization, more than likely around 60-70% at best.

  127. m0nty says:

    Why isn’t there a broader comparison? E.g. Sweden has historically had very close relations with the Baltic states.

    Translated: I don’t like the best data as it proves me wrong, give me something of poorer quality so that I may pick the cherries out.

  128. m0nty says:

    As for you Dot, it is no surprise that you changed careers, you were never much good at economics. Fancy being an Australian and arguing against high commodity prices.

    Of course you couldn’t answer my question about that Nordic study, because you can’t spin it to defend your wrong belief.

  129. Crossie says:

    To be sure, the vaccine rollout has long way to go. But Australians’ hesitancy is the bigger threat to herd immunity.
    By PETER VAN ONSELEN

    I have never seen anything published by PVO that made any sense so of course he must be engaged as a media lecturer by a university, that’s how a society advances.

  130. Crossie says:

    I find it bizarre how frightened the allegedly vaccinated are of the un-vaccinated. You believe that stuff works, right?

    C.L., they believe in “science”. Who knew there were so many nutters among us?

  131. GD says:

    Why would I agree to injecting a toxic vaccine that doesn’t prevent me from contracting the virus, and also doesn’t prevent me from transmitting the virus?

  132. Dot says:

    m0nty says:
    May 24, 2021 at 12:09 am
    As for you Dot, it is no surprise that you changed careers, you were never much good at economics. Fancy being an Australian and arguing against high commodity prices.

    I have a first, you failed first year. Fuck off you creitn.

    Your career is what? Ripping off the AFL’s IP and talking to teenagers on the internet?

    High commodity prices are good when EVERYTHING required as an input to manufacturing and transport has double digit inflation, after an alleged increase in output over at least two quarters, and possibly three or four?

    Wow monty. Why not just pray for real 300% price increases over a 10 year period, try to figure out what it means, what the production function is and that economic growth means and increase in real wages.

  133. TailgunneR says:

    We are all being stooged.
    Exactly,ozman.
    The sheep think the Coof looks like the meme of the ball covered in red spikes.
    Where’s the live sample?
    How can you create a vaccine without one?
    And the VaxWar rages on.

  134. thefrollickingmole says:

    Monty still slithering away from the UK hospitals disaster.
    Sad.
    Low energy.

  135. Figures says:

    That’s the vaccine working, you idiot.

    So if I get the vaccine and *don’t* get a reaction then that means that the vaccine hasn’t worked right?

  136. Figures says:

    We now have “vaccine-derived” new polio causing more paralysis than is the old wild one.

    That’s part of the story. The larger part is that after the polio vaccine drive, doctors simply stopped diagnosing (or testing for) polio so whenever they came across paralysis (other than trauma/stroke victims) in their patients they blamed it on something else (eg MS, Guillain Barre etc).

    Astonishingly, paralysis rates are *higher* today than before the polio vaccine.

    Similarly, congenital defect rates are higher today than before the rubella vaccine. Doctors just blame other causes for congenital defects.

    Invasive disease rates are higher today than before the Hib (and then Prevnar) vaccines. Doctors just blame other types of meningitis.

    Liver cancer/disease rates are higher today than before the Hepatitis B vaccines. Doctors just blame Hep C, D, E – we’ll make our way through the alphabet eventually.

    Sterility rates are higher than before the mumps vaccine. Parotitis just gets called parotitis.

    Every single vaccine – bar none – completely and utterly worthless.

    The hilarious part is that when you point out these devastating facts to vaccine fanatics the Nadia Comaneci levels of mental gymnastics they go through to rationalise it all away.

    Watch Dot. He’ll say some bizarre nonsense about how paralysis rates are irrelevant because I don’t believe in microscopes or some such.

  137. Richard says:

    If Laura Tingle, the TGA, or anybody else tries to claim that the 55 Year Old Tamworth man who died of a lung clot 8 days after receiving the AZ vaccine didn’t die of TTP, they are just damaging their own credibility.

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