Facts pillowed

EARLIER this evening, areff directed my attention to this Twitter thread wherein various luvvies – some of them Australia Council bin chickens – gas-light and condemn Naomi Wolf for becoming a catechumen of reality. An equally instructive lament is one I came upon via that thread:

 
Taylor is a Guardian reporter whose specialty rounds include… freedom of information. Because I know Catallaxy readers can take it, here is the front page concerned.

This entry was posted in Freedom of speech, Media. Bookmark the permalink.

134 Responses to Facts pillowed

  1. FlyingPigs says:

    lol

    wait till Josh Taylor finds out about the Congo Kids digging the Cobalt for his high tech gear battery.

    Let alone the slaves in China manufacturing his toys.

  2. FlyingPigs says:

    hey Josh… how many trade union members and organizers in China?

    https://www.ituc-csi.org/

  3. Lee says:

    Taylor obviously only believes in freedom of the press for him and like-minded leftists.
    So much for journalistic integrity and uncovering the truth.
    He would have been at home on Pravda.

  4. mareeS says:

    Once you jump off the bus it runs over you.

  5. ozman says:

    Lee says:
    May 29, 2021 at 11:19 pm

    He would have been at home on Pravda.

    He’s certainly got the credentials: “He has previously worked for BuzzFeed News and Crikey where he covered … freedom of information.”

    AstraZeneca is safe and harmless according to Greg Hunt.   

    Do hypocrites have a conscience? Or is a lack of conscience a prerequisite for being a leftard? Is Greg Hunt really a leftard posing as a conservative? 

    Greg Hunt can feel safe, Josh Taylor “the guardian” has got his back. Or is it Stalin’s “Pravda”?  One by one they all disappeared, Greg, and “Pravda” tell story.  

  6. Figures says:

    Even I’m shocked at how dangerous these vaccines are.

    The most important thing to understand is that journalists are only covering a tiny fraction of the consequences (probably less than 1 per cent).

  7. H B Bear says:

    Maocolm’s minion, No wonder j’ismists love Twitter.

  8. H B Bear says:

    News by omission. Perhaps he is angling for a job at the ALPBC? Of course he is, they all are.

  9. H B Bear says:

    Josh Taylor. Any relation to Le Snore?

  10. Mother Lode says:

    Even I’m shocked at how dangerous these vaccines are.

    You think ALL vaccines are dangerous. This is side-effect p0rn for you.

    The point here is that the unseemly haste in rolling out vaccines without suite of tests and safeguards, driven by a need for politicians to climb out from under a crushing mass of measures brought in as panicked knee-jerk reactions to a minor problem, is putting people in danger.

    They hope that if everyone gets the jab they can announce the measures are no longer necessary and people will begin to forget.

    It is not a medical problem but a political one.

  11. calli says:

    It is not a medical problem but a political one.

    Yes. The Ivermectin thread covers that point too.

    It seems to me that all roads lead to the removal of Trump. And power. And money.

    Oodles of money.

  12. mem says:

    “Mr Merlino has said the federal government is to blame for the outbreak, pinning it on the sluggish vaccine rollout and failures in hotel quarantine.” SBS News
    But didn’t Dan take credit for inventing hotel quarantine?
    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/05/pride-cometh-before-a-fall-down-lindsays-stairs.html

  13. H B Bear says:

    Can I suggest you are unlikely to learn anything from an interchange of two blokes called Josh and Chad.

  14. Struth says:

    They hope that if everyone gets the jab they can announce the measures are no longer necessary and people will begin to forget.

    My god.
    Do you seriously believe that?
    They’re just looking for a way out?
    If they wanted a way out they would have just said we have a vaccine, so all those vulnerable please self isolate until we get you vaccinated and everybody else is now as free as they were in 2019…you’re all released.
    They’ve had a way out before this.
    You’re kidding yourself.

  15. calli says:

    Struth, the clue is, “they hope”.

    Why attack ML when he is speculating on the thoughts of others?

  16. Indolent says:

    AstraZeneca is safe and harmless according to Greg Hunt.

    Greg Hunt is one of the worst climate alarmists, a la Turnbull. No wonder he won an award from the internationale. He’s one of their main implementers.

  17. Frank says:

    Why are these people (the Guardianistas) always such fags?

  18. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “It seems to me that all roads lead to the removal of Trump.”

    Correct…..as far as I’m concerned Covid was all about getting rid of Trump and instituting a new world order..and it has worked a treat. President Donald Trump was right from the beginning about the laboratory origins of the virus, the sinister menace of Fauci and the efficacy of both Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine.

  19. mh says:

    The federal parliament are a pack of Hunts.

  20. duncanm says:

    Now don’t forget that poor lady on the cover is still alive.

    She’s one of the 1 in 75k who has a severe clotting event. (17% of that group is fatal).

  21. mh says:

    Jonestown And The Covid Suicide Cult
    564,190 views
    ·
    May 20, 2021
    Greg Reese

    https://banned.video/watch?id=60a5585568fc2c3761256a15

  22. Ian MacCulloch says:

    You need the one from Jim Treacher to go with it. PJ Media is the site

  23. Shy Ted says:

    Will you stop knocking TheCardigan, it’ still bring us important stories like
    and. F in ell, I haven’t been to the website in ages and there wasn’t even a first dog cartoon to not laugh at.

  24. Mother Lode says:

    Struth, I don’t have such a high opinion of politicians. There may be a couple who combine cunning and ambition, but generally they are easily led sheep.

    Bureaucracy, activists, and experts, not subject to the whims of the electorate are different, and they try to work their agenda through politicians, but the pollies remain living every moment in panicked fear, like they are in a car speeding out of control down a mountain road with no brakes and very loose steering.

  25. Struth says:

    Why attack ML when he is speculating on the thoughts of others?

    Attacking is not what is happening, cherub.
    Disagreeing and pointing out why.

    Mother lode means “they” as in the pollies and is saying that they bsaically are looking for a way out of what they have done.
    Nothing could be further from the truth, as they could well have done that by now.
    Mother lode is close to being right but unfortunately in my view is still kidding himself regarding this point.

  26. Struth says:

    Bureaucracy, activists, and experts, not subject to the whims of the electorate are different, and they try to work their agenda through politicians, but the pollies remain living every moment in panicked fear, like they are in a car speeding out of control down a mountain road with no brakes and very loose steering.

    Easily led or not, they are being led by forces against us.
    Greg Hunt has been awarded as a new global leader etc.
    They are also in it up to their necks in it as well as the swamp, and they obviously are not looking for a way out.

  27. calli says:

    I’m no cherub. Though I do have chubby cheeks.

    The wing-buds are yet to form. 😇

  28. duncanm says:

    In other unreported news.

    Melbourne anti-lockdown march
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_76UzxIlpg

  29. Mother Lode says:

    Certainly politicians are led – by being promised even the briefest moments of safety. But there are some competing interests, most especially their own. They will not stand up for a departmental mandarin against their party power figures who are also looking out for themselves.

    It is a bit like they say of hypnotism, that you cannot get a person to do something under hypnosis that is against their waking morality. A politician has but one moral imperative: their own benefit.

  30. Mother Lode says:

    The wing-buds are yet to form. 😇

    We had better get to ringing some bells then.

    (Every time the bell rings an Angel gets…)

  31. tif reed says:

    ahh the flat earth society is alive and well at the cat!

  32. Kneel says:

    “President Donald Trump was right from the beginning…”

    …about a lot of stuff, actually.

    That Hillary is a crook.
    That there was no Russian collusion.
    That Gen. Flynn did nothing wrong.
    That Putin was right and the CIA was wrong.
    That reducing taxes would bring US companies back to US soil.
    That reducing taxes & regulation would boost the US economy.
    That moving the US Israeli embassy wouldn’t start WWIII.
    That ME peace deals could be brokered without the Palestinians.
    That other NATO countries should meet their financial obligations.
    That the US should bring their troops home.
    That NK could be dealt with normally without a war.
    That Big Tech needs to be regulated because it’s ownership is too concentrated and acts too politically.
    That the wall would reduce illegal immigration.
    That forcing compliance with US Immigration law reduces illegal immigration.
    That Critical Racism Theory is antithetical to the Civil Rights Act.
    That the US is not systemically racist.
    That riots should be suppressed.
    That arresting and charging rioters reduces rioting.
    That police need more funds not less if they are to be reformed.
    That Joe Biden is compromised by financial ties to China.
    That Joe Biden’s mental acuity is questionable.
    That the virus may have come from the WIV Lab.
    That there would be a vaccine before the end of 2020.
    That closing the border with China early saved lives.
    That the cure can’t be worse than the disease.

    Every single one of those was pasted by “experts”, establishment politicians and the mainstream media as wrong, in some cases for years.
    Every single one has proven true and correct.
    Every. Single. One. Is. True.
    Every single one is either ignored by the media when shown to be true, removed as policy then reinstated when the “new and improved” policy is a disaster and the media then praises Biden for “fixing” things, or the attempt is made to rewrite history to show that they didn’t really disagree, didn’t really “debunk” anything, just offered opinions of experts, which now “seem to have been not quite correct” but were “the best information we had at the time”.
    No apologies.
    No retractions.
    No acknowlegment the Orange Man was correct all along.
    No concept that their lies and tap-dancing are clearly visible to anyone who cares to pay attention and has a working memory.

  33. PB says:

    “ahh the flat earth society is alive and well at the cat!”

    As drive-by insults go this is a bit non-specific.

  34. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “Kneel says:
    May 30, 2021 at 10:13 am”

    Great comment and 100% true.

  35. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “ahh the flat earth society is alive and well at the cat”

    Lame…lame…you need to do better when you’re here.

  36. H B Bear says:

    Worst drive by since Falling Down.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1iWqn89nvJs

  37. Simple Simon says:

    duncanm says:
    May 30, 2021 at 9:31 am

    In other unreported news.

    Melbourne anti-lockdown march
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_76UzxIlpg

    Thanks for that, duncanm.
    Am glad to see that Victorians are beginning to rebel.
    More people need to get involved, and people in other States need also to follow this example.

    Mass civil disobedience achieves change.
    Refusal to comply is how the ludicrous Australian BLM demos got the go ahead despite government edicts to the contrary, if you recall. It is also how certain people got to have large numbers attending the funeral of one of their number. In other historical cases, Gandhi’s mass civil disobedience was important in achieving Indian independence, mass civil disobedience was instrumental in the US’s black civil rights movement, mass civil disobedience gave birth to the Solidarity trade union and subsequent societal movement in Poland and was instrumental in bringing down Communism in that country, mass civil disobedience was instrumental in causing even the East German Stasi-state to realise the jig was up and not to oppose ordinary people pulling down the Berlin Wall, to name but a few.

    Large numbers of people refusing to comply will see governments change their tune. Governments rely on the idea that ‘they have no option but to comply’ to allow their few to control our many.

    Compliance renders the majority irrelevant; collective disobedience of even a significant minority achieves change.

  38. jupes says:

    Is Greg Hunt really a leftard posing as a conservative?

    No, he’s an out and proud leftist.

  39. Lee says:

    “Mr Merlino has said the federal government is to blame for the outbreak, pinning it on the sluggish vaccine rollout and failures in hotel quarantine.” SBS News
    But didn’t Dan take credit for inventing hotel quarantine?
    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/05/pride-cometh-before-a-fall-down-lindsays-stairs.html

    And yet Morrison never fights back against the Victorian government.
    Makes me wonder if Dictator Dan has something on the PM.

  40. Paul says:

    Our state run horsepitals are good at missing blood clots caused by the AZ vaccine. Its almost as if they don’t really believe it. Much to the patients fright.

  41. Figures says:

    You think ALL vaccines are dangerous.

    All vaccines ARE dangerous. And useless.

    And they’re ALL political.

    We didn’t shut down the world because of polio but its effects were massively overblown and the vaccine trial was rubbish and only got approved because of the hysteria. No matter what they did they couldn’t prevent people getting paralyzed – so they just changed the name of polio.

  42. Chris M says:

    Why are these people (the Guardianistas) always such fags

    This one is also a blasphemer, a God hater. Very nasty character, besides being a fake journalist.

  43. Baa Humbug says:

    There was a time when we’d smack around the Josh’s and Chad’s of this World at school. This was an important social lesson that showed these putzs where their position in the social hierarchy was.
    In the modern era, these beta males and females don’t get these early life lessons because we cut out bullying. So now they are adults wreaking havoc among us.

  44. PB says:

    “Makes me wonder if Dictator Dan has something on the PM.”

    Makes me wonder if both are tuned in to the same agenda, and the only argument is technique.

  45. Timothy Neilson says:

    Figures says:
    May 30, 2021 at 1:40 pm

    If viruses and bacteria don’t cause diseases, what does cause diseases?

    Also, would you accept that humans have an immune system? What’s it there for if not to deal with viruses and bacteria?

  46. Rex Anger says:

    @ Tim-

    Figures says:
    May 30, 2021 at 1:40 pm

    If viruses and bacteria don’t cause diseases, what does cause diseases?

    Also, would you accept that humans have an immune system? What’s it there for if not to deal with viruses and bacteria?

    Chad Thunderbrain here believes that all human disease is due to enotional trauma, and that all you have to do to be forever disease free is to Harden Up.

    He apparently arrived at this conclusion based on the observation that he once sat in a GP’s waiting room and didn’t immediately keel over and die of AIDS-Tinea.

    He also believes that the human immune system only works in terms of runaway positive feedback, and as such will always kill its host at the slightest suggestion of pathogen contact.

    And nothing will convince him otherwise…

  47. Figures says:

    Chad Thunderbrain here believes that all human disease is due to enotional trauma, and that all you have to do to be forever disease free is to Harden Up.

    Not all disease. You can also be poisoned. But yes, trauma that our sub conscious mind associates with a biological meaning is the majority of illness. For example if a doctor, following a biopsy, tells us we have a deadly cancer then our mind equates this with a death fright (the same as if a predator is chasing us).

    He apparently arrived at this conclusion based on the observation that he once sat in a GP’s waiting room and didn’t immediately keel over and die of AIDS-Tinea.

    Close enough. There are a plethora of sick people in doctor waiting rooms so the accumulated (or simultaneous) exposure to contagious diseases (assuming contagious diseases existed) would clearly be fatal to both doctors and the patients. But people *don’t* immediately keel over at doctor offices so we have to conclude that contagious diseases are not plausible.

    He also believes that the human immune system only works in terms of runaway positive feedback, and as such will always kill its host at the slightest suggestion of pathogen contact.

    The immune system isn’t the killer per se but because the immune system (assuming it exists) is a positive feedback mechanism then the slightest perturbation (ie an increase in pathogens in the body) would lead to a runaway effect so recovery would *never* be possible.

    So, again, we can conclude that the germ theory is not possible.

    And nothing will convince him otherwise…

    Well I have a) mathematical proof (I actually have another proof as well); and b) direct observation on my side. Germ theory/vaccination has authority, popularity, feelz and a massive amount of abuse directed at those who question it on its side.

    Rex is upset that the latter has no impact on me.

  48. Figures says:

    Fun facts: blood clots (that we know of) caused by the AZ vaccine are affecting people at a rate of 1 per 100,000.

    This is “vanishingly rare” apparently.

    There were 1,500 iron lungs in the US at the height of the “polio epidemic”. The US back then had a population of 150 million.

    So the probability of a blood clot from these COVID vaccines is (at least) as great as the probability of being in an iron lung at the worst point of the polio epidemic.

    I’ve never heard anybody describe the use of iron lungs as “vanishingly rare” when they told me “duuuh, but what about polio?”

    By the way, iron lungs didn’t disappear because they were no longer needed after the polio vaccine campaign. Iron lungs were replaced because they were expensive and dangerous. In fact, (positive pressure) ventilator use today is nearly ten times what it was back before the polio vaccine.

  49. Figures says:

    Sorry I should say that Rex tried to argue I went from realising disease is not contagious to automatically believing it came from emotional trauma but that’s deceitful.

    I realised disease is not contagious but also that it could be *shared* (eg siblings or coworkers all coming down with the same illness at the same time).

    So disease had to be caused by something we can a) share; but b) not spread.

    This is an astonishingly simple and obvious epistemic path and the fact that barely one in a billion people in history have taken it is proof that most people are immensely stupid.

    Poisoning can be shared but not spread and the same for emotional trauma. The spreading of germs aka germ theory cannot be the cause of disease.

  50. Rex Anger says:

    Well I have a) mathematical proof (I actually have another proof as well); and b) direct observation on my side.

    What mathematical proof, Chad Thunderbrain?

    Do you now have a time figure for how long you sat in the GP’s office and never died of AIDS-Tinea?

  51. Rex Anger says:

    Poisoning can be shared but not spread and the same for emotional trauma. The spreading of germs aka germ theory cannot be the cause of disease.

    That’s a new angle, Chad Thunderbrain.

    How do you ‘share’ poisoning? And more importantly, how do you share emotional trauma? When a person’s emotional and mental makeup is completely unique to them and them alone?

    Some people (like you) are clearly much ‘Harder’ than others, after all…

    Would you not then effectively be declaring pathogenicity exists by a more Thunderbrain-acceptable name? And thus be effectively advocating for the Germ Theory you hold in such vehement contempt?

    And what math do you have to prove that?

  52. Rex Anger says:

    I’ve never heard anybody describe the use of iron lungs as “vanishingly rare” when they told me “duuuh, but what about polio?”

    By the way, iron lungs didn’t disappear because they were no longer needed after the polio vaccine campaign. Iron lungs were replaced because they were expensive and dangerous. In fact, (positive pressure) ventilator use today is nearly ten times what it was back before the polio vaccine.

    Strawman.

    Technology change does not mean that vaccines do not work, nor that they are dangerous. The application of said Non-invasive Positive Pressure ventilation (I worked in this field, Chad Thunderbrain), is significantly wider than merely dealing with paralysis. The vast majority of noninvasive emventilation work is on emphysematous patients, cardiac failure, occasionally morbid obesity and autoimmune genetic neuromuscular diseases like Motor Neurone Disease and Multiple Sclerosis.

  53. Rayvic says:

    Obviously, The West Australian is deeply irresponsible for reporting facts, particularly on its front page.

    By inference, the Guardian is highly responsible for censoring facts and reporting fiction.

  54. Timothy Neilson says:

    Close enough. There are a plethora of sick people in doctor waiting rooms so the accumulated (or simultaneous) exposure to contagious diseases (assuming contagious diseases existed) would clearly be fatal to both doctors and the patients.

    Epic logic fail. “Sick” and “fatal” are not synonymous. Plenty of illnesses don’t cause death.

  55. Timothy Neilson says:

    Close enough. There are a plethora of sick people in doctor waiting rooms so the accumulated (or simultaneous) exposure to contagious diseases (assuming contagious diseases existed) would clearly be fatal to both doctors and the patients.

    Also, “contagious” covers a wide range of phenomena. It’s just about impossible for a man to catch HIV unless he shares a needle with another druggo, or plays front row in the two man scrum, but he can easily catch a cold by being on a crowded tram in winter – both conditions are “contagious”.
    Thus, even if there were a plethora of patients in a doctor’s waiting room with “contagious” diseases, that wouldn’t mean that we’d automatically expect everyone to catch that disease (let alone die from it).

  56. Figures says:

    The vast majority of noninvasive emventilation work is on emphysematous patients, cardiac failure, occasionally morbid obesity and autoimmune genetic neuromuscular diseases like Motor Neurone Disease and Multiple Sclerosis.

    Hahahaha!!!!

    These last two are both differential diagnoses of polio.

    That, you see, is my point.

    Do you not see the problem Rex? You can’t use the “lack of iron lungs” as proof that the polio vaccine worked when “I can’t believe they’re not iron lungs” are more common than before.

    The lack of iron lungs is *your* (as in pro vaxers) argument. I’m just pointing out it’s a complete lie.

  57. Figures says:

    Epic logic fail. “Sick” and “fatal” are not synonymous. Plenty of illnesses don’t cause death.

    Do you not understand the concept of “addition”?

    2 is not synonymous with 10 but 2+3+1+4 is.

    Sorry. I assumed that most people at the Cat (save Monty) would know simple addition. Apologies.

    If you need any other tricks on how to count just ask me or you could just continue to embarrass yourself.

  58. Figures says:

    The lack of iron lungs is *your* (as in pro vaxers) argument. I’m just pointing out it’s a complete lie.

    Further to this point Rex we both know you’re full of shit don’t we?

    You see, if another pro-vaxer used the “there are no iron lungs anymore” argument you wouldn’t pull them up on it to say “well…you see, there are actually kind of iron lungs still – and lots of them – but I pinky swear we use them for different things [although those things often look like polio]” would you?

    Like I said, you’re full of shit. That’s why you’re grasping at straws now – you never considered what the abundance of positive pressure ventilators meant regarding polio vaccination. You never tried to put 2 and 2 together before and now that someone has you’re desperately trying to claim the answer isn’t 4.

  59. Figures says:

    It’s just about impossible for a man to catch HIV unless he shares a needle with another druggo, or plays front row in the two man scrum, but he can easily catch a cold by being on a crowded tram in winter – both conditions are “contagious”.

    You’re hopeless at this. Utterly hopeless.

    You see, you just made my argument for me.

    Another way of writing what you said is:

    The theory of contagious diseases is completely viable so long as we assume that diseases aren’t really contagious.

  60. Timothy Neilson says:

    2 is not synonymous with 10 but 2+3+1+4 is

    While correct, that statement bears no conceivable relation to the point I made.

    Admit it, “sick” and “fatal” are not synonymous – therefore “sick” people at medical waiting rooms doesn’t equal other people dying.

  61. Timothy Neilson says:

    Another way of writing what you said is:

    The theory of contagious diseases is completely viable so long as we assume that diseases aren’t really contagious.

    No it isn’t.

    Your statement is like claiming that because a 200 cm man is shorter than a 210 cm man, there’s no such thing as being tall.
    Your statement has nothing to do with what I said.

  62. Timothy Neilson says:

    These last two are both differential diagnoses of polio.

    He’s got you there, Rex.
    It’s incontrovertible:
    1. Assert without evidence that two diseases sometimes requiring ventilation are “polio”, because polio also sometimes required ventilation;
    2. Conclude therefore that polio hasn’t been effectively eradicated;
    3. Conclude therefore that polio vaccine is ineffective;
    4. The conclusion that the polio vaccine is ineffective leads to the conclusion that polio still exists;
    5. … which is proof that the two diseases referred to in 1. are polio…
    6. from which we can deduce that polio hasn’t been effectively eradicated…

    You KNOW it makes sense!!!!

    I haven’t seen the artificial barriers of conventional logic hurdled with such ease since the days of the unlamented Iamashiteater.

  63. Figures says:

    therefore “sick” people at medical waiting rooms doesn’t equal other people dying.

    Why don’t you take the time to understand what you’re responding to before you do so?

    People in doctor offices are exposed to *multiple* pathogens. Not to mention most are already sick and, therefore presumably, more vulnerable.

    That’s where the whole “sick to the point of being fatal” comes into it.

    Next time you respond I want you to show that you understand that I am referring to *more than one* pathogen and therefore a cumulative effect.

    1. Assert without evidence that two diseases sometimes requiring ventilation are “polio”, because polio also sometimes required ventilation;

    Mate, it’s not my claim that MS and ALS are ddx of polio. They just are. Take it up with your holy doctors if you don’t agree.

    It’s pretty simple.

    According to the sacred government medical statistics, paralysis rates have *increased* since the polio vaccine. To explain that you need to accept that either a) polio has been renamed; b) polio was only ever a trivial cause of paralysis and not worth vaccinating for; c) the polio vaccine causes lots of paralysis; or d) some combination of the above.

    But the thing is that whilst b) and c) might be true we *know* a) is definitely true. It is harder to diagnose polio today than before the vaccine – the criteria has been strengthened. Just for starters you *cannot* diagnose today without a lab test. In 1950 you didn’t need a lab test. In fact, in 1950 you didn’t even need paralysis!

    So no matter how desperate you are to believe in polio vaccines it is an irrefutable fact that cases that previously were called polio are now called something else.

  64. Figures says:

    How do you ‘share’ poisoning? And more importantly, how do you share emotional trauma?

    Is that an actual question? Are you seriously asking how two or more people could, say, drink from the same lead pipes?

    And whilst sharing a common emotional trauma is, I suppose, slightly harder to understand I would have thought an IQ above 50 would suffice. And that would be reduced to 30 given I’ve provided examples such as siblings losing (or missing) a parent.

    When a person’s emotional and mental makeup is completely unique to them and them alone?

    Mate, all you’ve done is provided further ammunition for *my* theory.

    Most kids will respond to a missing parent the same way but they *don’t have to*. They also won’t experience it with the same intensity. For example, if there were 10 siblings ranging in age from 2 to 25 it would be highly likely the 25 year old has a different reaction to the 2 year old. They may not be traumatized at all or they might be traumatized but in a different way (so instead of a rash they might get bone issues).

    So thanks Rex. You now know why doctors make up nonsense like “incubation periods” or “previous immunity” or “partial immunity” or “strong immune systems”.

    It’s because they have no idea why some people get sick but others don’t and when people get sick relative to others and why the intensity and duration varies from patient to patient. It’s all explained by how intense and long lasting the trauma and when the trauma is resolved *for that person*.

    My theory truly is astonishing isn’t it? I’m sure you’ll agree.

  65. Timothy Neilson says:

    Next time you respond I want you to show that you understand that I am referring to *more than one* pathogen and therefore a cumulative effect.

    It’s only a cumulative effect if the patient or doctor catches multiple pathogens.
    Next time you respond I want you to show that you understand that “contagious” doesn’t mean “will be caught by anyone and everyone who is within a bull’s roar of the infected patient”.

    Mate, it’s not my claim that MS and ALS are ddx of polio. They just are.

    This is, of course, bullshit. The observed effects of MS and ALS on nerves are different to the effects of polio on nerves (or more accurately for polio, the nerve sheaths).

    To explain that you need to accept that either a) polio has been renamed; b) polio was only ever a trivial cause of paralysis and not worth vaccinating for; c) the polio vaccine causes lots of paralysis; or d) some combination of the above.

    Wrong. It’s perfectly possible that some other cause has become more prevalent, as with HIV causing an appreciable increase in certain symptoms in ahem certain demographics in the early ’80’s. Your alternatives are all demonstrably false to anyone who takes the trouble to ascertain what each disease actually does to the patient’s nervous system, rather than just scream that disease induced paralysis must all have the same cause.

  66. Rex Anger says:

    I haven’t seen the artificial barriers of conventional logic hurdled with such ease since the days of the unlamented Iamashiteater.

    Indeed.

    I did wonder if IamPeter had changed his M.O. to IamNowAnAntiVaxxer…

    My theory truly is astonishing isn’t it?

    No. Merely off-the-wall, more infinitely mutable than the common cold, utterly contemptuous of both history and actual human biology, and more hysterical than m0nty.

    If people truly are resistant to all disease by Hardening Up, you must be the most sickly and diseased Walking Plague ever to shamble upon the Earth. Every time you are so much as even questioned (let alone someone rolling their eyes at you), you explode in word-walls that make no sense and only expose your ignorance.

    Monomania about some things you once read regarding polio and vaccinations does not invalidate the entirety of human medicine. And I note with interest, you never said a single word about cardiac failure, emphysema or morbid obesity as being beneficially treated by positive-pressure ventilation.

    Planning on telling a lifelong smoker on supplemental oxygen and/or NIV because of the damage their lungs have sustained to ‘Harden Up’ and stop being a little bitch, and they will immediately get better?

    If you did not come away with a severe case of emotional trauma (as a bare minimum), I would be surprised…

  67. Figures says:

    It’s only a cumulative effect if the patient or doctor catches multiple pathogens.

    And it’s only “contagious” if people exposed to multiple “pathogens” actually suffer any adverse consequences of them.

    I get that you feel very stupid for not having seen this – who wouldn’t? But going around in circles doesn’t help you get any closer to the truth.

    The observed effects of MS and ALS on nerves are different to the effects of polio on nerves

    That’s funny given that no two ALS or MS (or polio) patients are exactly alike.

    You don’t understand what you’re talking about. Diagnosing is an art not a science and it’s far closer to my toddler’s scribblings than it is to a Michelangelo.

    It’s perfectly possible that some other cause has become more prevalent,

    In which case the answer is b). But we know a) is a part of it.

    what each disease actually does to the patient’s nervous system,

    See my comment above. I also love just how stupid you must be to believe that doctors in 1950 were carefully studying the effects on the nervous systems of all of their patients to discern between polio and all other forms of paralysis.

    Let me help you out mate. If some doctors had just diagnosed 100 cases of polio in a town then all the other doctors would have been diagnosing polio in anybody they could – and they wouldn’t have spent one second worrying about specific effects on the nervous system.

    Hilariously, you forgot about the fact that before the polio vaccine, the diagnosis of polio was so broad it even included people without paralysis!

    You also forgot about lab tests. Why do we need them if the symptoms are completely unambiguous?

    Oh and you also forgot to specify exactly what the difference is that every doctor could easily observe in terms of the effect on the nervous system.

    Basically you’ve failed in every conceivable way. So well done.

  68. Figures says:

    And I note with interest, you never said a single word about cardiac failure, emphysema or morbid obesit

    ??? Why would I? The supposed absence of ventilators isn’t my argument. Successes don’t need excuses. Excuses are for things that have failed.

    You may think the presence of emphysema is a good excuse for the dismal failure of the polio vaccine to reduce the need for ventilators but the fact that you need an excuse at all means that you accept that they’ve failed (at least ostensibly).

    because of the damage their lungs have sustained to ‘Harden Up’ and stop being a little bitch, and they will immediately get better?

    Actually, resolving a trauma will be followed by the most painful/unpleasant part of the illness. That’s why so many people get sick when they’re on holidays.

    If you have lung cancer and resolve your trauma you’ll then cough up lots of blood (and other TB symptoms). Most people will actually see this as scary and devolve straight back to the fear of death trauma that caused their initial lung cancer. That’s why lung cancer has such a poor prognosis.

    I’ll ignore the rest of your whining.

  69. Figures says:

    Next time you respond I want you to show that you understand that “contagious” doesn’t mean “will be caught by anyone and everyone who is within a bull’s roar of the infected patient”.

    And again we are back to:

    “The theory of contagion is perfectly viable so long as we assume that no diseases are actually contagious.”

  70. Mark A says:

    Figures says:

    If some of this crap wouldn’t be so outrageous, it would be dangerous to gullible peeps.
    As it is, nobody in his right mind would take it seriously.

    Thank God for that little mercy.

  71. Figures says:

    Timothy I just don’t know why this is hard to understand.

    If diseases are contagious then the most dangerous places will be those places where there are lots of sick people.

    Now, if those places aren’t particularly dangerous then we have to conclude that contagion is either non-existent or trivial.

    If my baby can’t even get sick from visiting a doctor then being in a school – or any other situation – is of no concern. Therefore there is no need for vaccines and when I or my kids do get sick, I should assume it had nothing to do with contagion.

    What part of this do you find hard to understand?

  72. Rex Anger says:

    You may think the presence of emphysema is a good excuse for the dismal failure of the polio vaccine to reduce the need for ventilators but the fact that you need an excuse at all means that you accept that they’ve failed (at least ostensibly).

    What?

    Utterly unrelated conditions, Chad Thunderbrain.

    Actually, resolving a trauma will be followed by the most painful/unpleasant part of the illness.

    So, given your latest 3 wordwalls and increasing inanity, can we assume that you are now developing full-blown heart failure because our refusal to accept your self-perceived brilliance has become very traumatic to you, Chad Thunderbrain?

    Harden Up…

  73. Figures says:

    What?

    Utterly unrelated conditions, Chad Thunderbrain.

    You were the one that said they all had a common factor (ie the use of ventilators (which is the purpose of the discussion)). Are you now saying that’s wrong? Make up your mind.

    So, given your latest 3 wordwalls and increasing inanity, can we assume that you are now developing full-blown heart failure because our refusal to accept your self-perceived brilliance has become very traumatic to you, Chad Thunderbrain?

    Yes I’m absolutely shocked that brainwashed people will go through Nadia Comaneci levels of mental gymnastics to rationalise their lunatic position.

    Somehow you have decided that two independent mathematical proofs (that you have no idea how to counter) and direct observations are irrelevant but your feelings, authority and the time that people have believed in germ theory on the other hand are paramount.

    I go through this with every other completely brainwashed person and I would say that around 90 per cent of the population are completely brainwashed. It’s the 10 per cent that my words resonate with. Very often, those people in the 10 per cent will be watching my debates. You’re not part of the 10 per cent I’m afraid, you’re part of the 90 per cent that includes Monty, journalists, politicians, COVID hysterics, and every single Labor voter. I wish you were part of the 10 per cent, but whenever I go into a discussion I assume that you’re probably not going to be.

  74. Figures says:

    If some of this crap wouldn’t be so outrageous, it would be dangerous to gullible peeps.

    That’s truly funny given the sorts of people who have driven the government’s, shall we say, “outrageous” response to COVID because of their paranoia over germs.

    Hint: the “gullible peeps” aren’t the ones who are relaxed about said germs.

  75. Rex Anger says:

    You were the one that said they all had a common factor (ie the use of ventilators (which is the purpose of the discussion)). Are you now saying that’s wrong?

    Incorrect, Chad Thundebrain.

    I explained to you what positive preessure ventilation is used for. Ditto the technology change. Not that any of these conditions had a common factor.

    Your polio paralysis monomania has blinded you. For your own sake (and to avoid the emotional trauma that will likely kill you), pit the crack pipe down and leave it one for a bit…

    Somehow you have decided that two independent mathematical proofs (that you have no idea how to counter

    What mathematical proofs, Chad Tbunderbrain?

    Are you doing another Humpty Dumpty? Does the term ‘mathematical’ now mean anything you say it means? First you claimed your ‘proofs’ about diseases not being based on spreadable contagion because you sat in a GP’s waiting room for a bit and didn’t die, and that everything is based on emotional trauma cos a stressed toddler apparently developed eczema and people sometimes get sick on holiday were logical. Now you say they are mathematical? Where are your figures, Figures? Working out too, please?

  76. Figures says:

    Incorrect, Chad Thundebrain.

    I explained to you what positive preessure ventilation is used for. Ditto the technology change. Not that any of these conditions had a common factor.

    Do you know what a common factor is? You said these conditions could *all* be treated by ventilators.

    *That’s* the common factor! And more to the point it is the common factor that is germane to our discussion.

    What mathematical proofs, Chad Tbunderbrain?

    Playing dumb eh? It’s not my problem if you can’t remember our previous discussions. I mean, I can recap them for you if you like, but you were the one that wanted to explain to people exactly what it is that I believed and precisely why I believed it.

    Why didn’t you tell Tim this? Why didn’t you say “Tim, Figures and I had a discussion about this previously but, truth be told, I don’t actually remember the key parts of it (other than being utterly demolished) and have nothing substantive to offer but I’ll inject myself into the conversation so that when Figures demolishes you as he did me you won’t feel so lonely”?

  77. Figures says:

    (and to avoid the emotional trauma that will likely kill you)

    Is this you trying to be funny again?

    I mean, it is kind of funny – just not in the way you think. You see, germs are ubiquitous. You have 40 odd trillion bacteria in and on your body. And up to ten times more “viruses” (or what you would call viruses). And they aren’t all the warm and fuzzy germs that you can take home to meet your mother either. If you ran enough cycles of PCR then everybody on the planet would be shown to be infected with “viruses” blamed for smallpox, rabies, ebola, HIV and even the dreaded measles. And then there are the bacteria blamed for diphtheria, e coli, strep, Hib, pertussis, salmonella – all essentially ubiquitous.

    If germs were one trillionth as dangerous as you believe they are, then you would die a hundred times over before you got out of bed each morning.

    And yet, you actually seem to think the notion that emotional trauma might make you sick is the pessimistic worldview! Do you see how that’s funny Rex? I’m having a good laugh at your expense let me assure you.

  78. Rex Anger says:

    Of course yku are, Chad Thunderbrain.

    All the walls of words and hysterical name calling is evidence of your wot and amusement…

  79. Rex Anger says:

    Playing dumb eh? It’s not my problem if you can’t remember our previous discussions

    Nice flinch.

    Now you are calling your proofs ‘mathematical,’ let’s see some empirical evidence beyond a few personal anecdotes.

    Figures please, Figures…

  80. Rex Anger says:

    Do you know what a common factor is? You said these conditions could *all* be treated by ventilators.

    *That’s* the common factor!

    Yet your monomania was about polio and paralysis and vaccines. Not ventilators…

  81. Timothy Neilson says:

    Poor old Figures.
    It’s just desperately sad.
    I’m beginning to think he is Iamashiteater in disguise, because he’s got the same inability to think except in cartoon-like binary absolutisms.
    He can’t understand that “contagious” is a descriptive term that can cover things that can be transmitted in some narrow circumstances (like HIV) and others that can be transmitted much more easily (like the common cold). That’s why he’s convinced that the lack of mass deaths in doctors’ waiting rooms disproves the idea of viral or bacterial contagion.
    Poor old Figures.

  82. Figures says:

    and others that can be transmitted much more easily (like the common cold)

    Why are you still doing this? I shouldn’t have to run through it all for you. The problem with using obtuseness as your main strategy is that failure will always leave you looking extremely stupid.

    If I visit a doctor office let’s say there have been 100 people there already that day (it could be a lot more if it were a hospital and we’ll be even nicer to you and assume that the end of each day the place gets completely disinfected).

    If we assume that, say, half of those have a disease (as opposed to, say, a broken leg) and (because we are assuming contagion is responsible for a large proportion of diseases), half of those again have a disease that is supposedly easily transmitted then a simple visit to a doctor office would see you exposed to 25 of these “easily transmitted” diseases.

    Now, the cumulative effect of 25 diseases infecting you at the same time would, presumably, be fatal (or nearly fatal) for pretty much anyone – even if they were just 25 different versions of flu or the cold (let alone if they included things like meningitis or pertussis or other supposedly more dangerous germs).

    Now, did I really have to run through this for you? I really think you could have managed without me holding your hand.

  83. Figures says:

    Yet your monomania was about polio and paralysis and vaccines. Not ventilators…

    Ummm, yeah. Good point.

    Now you are calling your proofs ‘mathematical,’ let’s see some empirical evidence beyond a few personal anecdotes.

    You can call them “logical” if you prefer. I don’t mind. Maybe you failed maths in school and get scared when you see numbers.

    By the way, I realise you are an imbecile so you don’t know this but, by definition, empirical evidence is *not* logical (or mathematical) proof.

  84. Timothy Neilson says:

    Now, the cumulative effect of 25 diseases infecting you at the same time would, presumably, be fatal (or nearly fatal) for pretty much anyone – even if they were just 25 different versions of flu or the cold (let alone if they included things like meningitis or pertussis or other supposedly more dangerous germs).

    Poor old Figures.
    It’s just desperately sad.
    One doesn’t catch 25 colds simultaneously – one either has “a cold” or one doesn’t.

    Also poor old Figures still can’t understand the non-binary nature of the concept of “contagion”.

    It’s just so desperately sad.

  85. Kneel says:

    “…a simple visit to a doctor office would see you exposed to 25 of these “easily transmitted” diseases.”

    You need to be more than exposed, you need to be infected. These are not synonymous. It is very easy to be exposed, it is much harder to be infected – physiology that resists infection is a survival trait, and therefore highly inheritable. Not too much though – that’s a waste of resources. So there is a balance, and here we are.

  86. Figures says:

    One doesn’t catch 25 colds simultaneously – one either has “a cold” or one doesn’t.

    You do realise that, according to your deified doctors, there are lots of different types of cold and flu viruses don’t you? Why do you think they tell you to take a different flu shot every year? They claim it is because there are multiple strains of the flu being created every year. Take it up with them if you don’t believe me.

    But you’re right though, you don’t acquire 25 colds simultaneously. If germ theory were true then that is exactly what would happen. But it doesn’t. Ergo, germ theory isn’t true.

    QED

  87. Figures says:

    It is very easy to be exposed, it is much harder to be infected – physiology that resists infection is a survival trait, and therefore highly inheritable. Not too much though – that’s a waste of resources. So there is a balance, and here we are.

    You may think that it helps that there are quite a few of you roped into this and engaging in desperate straw clutching but it really doesn’t.

    As I have told others: *if* it is not likely that we get sick from what is presumably the most dangerous place of all in terms of contagion then clearly anywhere else has a negligible chance of making us sick doesn’t it?

    If I can endure a hospital I can endure a school. If I can endure a doctor office I can endure the mall. If I can endure the pharmacy I can endure a rock concert. And so on.

    No place is anywhere near as dangerous (in terms of germ theory) as the places where doctors hang out. So if those places are sufficiently safe for patients and doctors alike – and all of you are claiming that they are – then every other place must be *even more* sufficiently safe.

    Do you get it now? If I can manage a 10k run then clearly a 100 metre run isn’t going to be a problem is it?

  88. Timothy Neilson says:

    You do realise that, according to your deified doctors, there are lots of different types of cold and flu viruses don’t you? Why do you think they tell you to take a different flu shot every year?

    Poor old Figures, it’s just so desperately sad.
    He’s just got no idea that things aren’t entirely binary.
    If evolution meant only that new species were added, we’d still be getting chased by dinosaurs.
    A past year’s flu virus may not go entirely extinct (though on the other hand it might) but it becomes too rare to bother vaccinating against.

    Poor old Figures – just so desperately sad.

  89. Timothy Neilson says:

    No place is anywhere near as dangerous (in terms of germ theory) as the places where doctors hang out.

    True – which is why any doctor will tell you not to go to a hospital unless you’ve got a reason to.

    But again, poor old Figures can’t understand the concept of degree – he’s still fixated on the idea that “contagious” means “lethal to anyone who goes anywhere near someone who’s got it”.

    Poor old Figures.

  90. Figures says:

    A past year’s flu virus may not go entirely extinct (though on the other hand it might) but it becomes too rare to bother vaccinating against.

    How exactly does it do that? Are you trying to say that as soon as one new flu virus mutates then every one (or practically every one) of the trillions of virus particles of the old strain magically disappear? How many drugs did you smoke before you thought that was a likely scenario?

    Not that any of it matters. If there are virtually no viruses or colds to worry about in a doctor office then there are no viruses or colds to worry about *anywhere*.

    True – which is why any doctor will tell you not to go to a hospital unless you’ve got a reason to.

    People go to doctor offices, hospitals and pharmacies where they will be surrounded by lots and lots of sick people to get a vaccine that will, they hope, protect them from one or two types of sick people that they probably won’t be in any danger from anyway in the future.

    The term for that is “completely batshit insane”.

    You can’t win here you know that?

    Either diseases are contagious in which case nobody in their right mind would visit a doctor, or they’re not, in which case nobody in their right mind would listen to a doctor (at least when it came to disease).

  91. Timothy Neilson says:

    Either diseases are contagious in which case nobody in their right mind would visit a doctor, or they’re not, in which case nobody in their right mind would listen to a doctor (at least when it came to disease).

    Poor old binary-mired Figures, still mired in the excrement of his own inability to understand concepts like degree of risk of contagion.
    As for viruses going extinct, or nearly, as a virus sweeps through a population, people get it – some are symptomatic and some are asymptomatic – and as their immune system adapts to that virus there are fewer and fewer viable hosts, so the virus tends either to die out, or to adapt into another form.
    Not difficult to understand post-Darwin’s “The Origin of Species”.
    .

  92. Figures says:

    He’s just got no idea that things aren’t entirely binary.

    Really? Nothing is binary? Nothing at all? Are you a trans activist? Either way, that statement is deranged.

    If you had said “some things are not binary and I will explain why this is one of them” you might have looked somewhat less stupid. It wouldn’t have helped much because it doesn’t matter whether you take this as a dichotomy or a spectrum, you still come to the same conclusion – the more dangerous you want germs to be, the more you need to fear visiting a doctor office. The less dangerous you want germs to be, the less need you have to visit doctors or listen to anything they say.

    You see?

    So a) you’re a complete f***ing lunatic; and b) you’re wrong even by your own lunatic standards.

  93. Figures says:

    As for viruses going extinct, or nearly, as a virus sweeps through a population, people get it – some are symptomatic and some are asymptomatic – and as their immune system adapts to that virus there are fewer and fewer viable hosts, so the virus tends either to die out, or to adapt into another form.

    Oh ok. So that’s why nobody needs to get a measles vaccine right? The virus has already been through the population before so no need to fear it (and even if there was reason to fear it, it has since changed so much that the decades old vaccine must be worthless).

    And same for rubella. And mumps. And polio. And Hep B. And HPV. Not sure whether you intend for your “logic” to apply to bacteria as well but if it did that would also rule out diphtheria and pertussis too now wouldn’t it? So according to your logic, other than flu shots (and I suppose COVID), there isn’t a single vaccine given to people that serves any purpose. I mean, I’m with you. You’re completely right (other than flu and COVID shots of course). But I’m not sure if that’s your intent though.

    You’re really good at this.

    No really. You should keep on going. It’s working out swimmingly.

    Not difficult to understand post-Darwin’s “The Origin of Species”.

    Oh ok great evolutionary biology guru. Can you explain how, once a new species that breeds through sex evolves, that that new species can have offspring?

    Say there was a precursor to a horse and then there was one more mutation that turned one of those precursors into a brand new species (ie one solitary actual horse). Who would that horse mate with? Would it mate with the old species? If so, how would its progeny be able to procreate given that the progeny of different species don’t typically have reproductive capacity.

    This isn’t anything to do with germ theory by the way, I just find it an interesting question. So far all I have gotten from evolution defenders is “ummm, the changes take place over a hundred bajillion years so, ummm, magic”.

  94. Rex Anger says:

    Do you get it now? If I can manage a 10k run then clearly a 100 metre run isn’t going to be a problem is it?

    Depends.

    A Marathon runner will lose to a 100m sprinter every time over the shorter distance. But the sprinter will have gassed out and collapsed long before the Marathon runner passes half-distance.

    A healthy person with a functioning immune system is far less likely to pick up anything, anywhere relative to one who is unhealthy or immunocompromised.

    Unless they are Chad Thunderbrain. Who just hardens up and screams at the dissenters…

  95. Rex Anger says:

    Oh ok great evolutionary biology guru. Can you explain how, once a new species that breeds through sex evolves, that that new species can have offspring?

    Say there was a precursor to a horse and then there was one more mutation that turned one of those precursors into a brand new species (ie one solitary actual horse). Who would that horse mate with? Would it mate with the old species? If so, how would its progeny be able to procreate given that the progeny of different species don’t typically have reproductive capacity.

    Chad Thunderbrain’s binary of mutual exclusion comes into play again.

    A species that develops to a particular environment will have a series of generations that are mutually compatible, until environmental conditions and natural selection render them divergent.

    Has Chad Thunderbrain considered the cross-races of escaped domestic dogs and dingoes in Australia? Different species with sufficient genetic compatibility to hybridise. Ditto the huge numbers of domestic dog and cat breeds. The genome is huge.

    Zebras and horses are also sufficiently similar to produce functional offsprong, who can procreate in their own right. Ditto domestoc cattle and bison. Or even buffalo.

    Chad Thunderbrain’s example only really works in the case of mules. But donkeys and horses are so far diverged that they render their offspring sterile, anyway.

  96. Rex Anger says:

    You can call them “logical” if you prefer. I don’t mind. Maybe you failed maths in school and get scared when you see numbers.

    Incorrect, Chad Thunderbrain. A Logical Proof takes Proposition ‘A’ and arrives at Conclusion ‘A,’ taking into account Supporting Evidence ‘B’ and ‘C,’ rebutting Counter-Argument ‘D’ by virtue of Facts ‘E,’ ‘F’ and ‘G,’ etc.

    A Mathematical Proof aims to demonstrate a particular equation or set of figures, but visually demonstrates it by the application of numerical addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractionalisation, etc.

    Your assertions provide nothing of the sort. You are, in fact, far closer to the Subject Matter ‘Expert’ portrayed in this <Monty Python sketch about Brontosauruses…

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-dj_X3vexak


    By the way, I realise you are an imbecile so you don’t know this but, by definition, empirical evidence is *not* logical (or mathematical) proof.

    Incorrect. Empirical proof means you have evidence by experimentation and demonstration. You get figures from these, Figures. Also confirming or disproving the logic that drive the experiment.

    Logic is merely an idea that seems good when you think it out. Empirical proof that the idea works demonstrates its validity or lack of.

    Now, given that your action of first resort is to call any dissenters names and impugn their intelligence, demonstrates that you neither have anything that demonstrates your ‘proofs’ outside of personal assertion and anecdote, nor hard numbers.

    What you have instead is hypotheses that have hardened into religious dogma, as you will not suffer them to be questioned, nor test them and demonstrate their validity against existing human understanding.

    It is, as you repeatedly demonstrate, so much easier to call us imbeciles and brainwashed, than it is to submit your dogma to critical examination.

  97. Rex Anger says:

    You can call them “logical” if you prefer. I don’t mind. Maybe you failed maths in school and get scared when you see numbers.

    Incorrect, Chad Thunderbrain. A Logical Proof takes Proposition ‘A’ and arrives at Conclusion ‘A,’ taking into account Supporting Evidence ‘B’ and ‘C,’ rebutting Counter-Argument ‘D’ by virtue of Facts ‘E,’ ‘F’ and ‘G,’ etc.

    A Mathematical Proof aims to demonstrate a particular equation or set of figures, but visually demonstrates it by the application of numerical addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractionalisation, etc.

    Neither definition is interchangeable, Chad Thunderbrain.

  98. Timothy Neilson says:

    Figures says:
    June 1, 2021 at 3:26 pm

    Poor old Figures. It really is desperately sad.

    He’s just got no idea of risk management.

    Risk management is about probability and consequence.

    Probability of getting a previous year’s flu virus – very low, and consequence of getting a previous year’s flu virus – nothing out of the ordinary. Hence, desirability of vaccination, not worth worrying about.

    Probability of getting measles, rubella or polio – low, maybe very low, but consequence possibly very bad indeed – hence desirability of vaccination is significant.

    Poor old Figures. Mr “unable to comprehend anything more complex than simple binary” strikes again.

  99. Figures says:

    Zebras and horses don’t typically have fertile offspring. Dingoes aren’t a separate species to dogs (usually considered a sub species). Beefalos I will give you although breeding them is hard.

    So my initial point stands. The progeny of different species are *typically* infertile which makes evolution of sexually reproducing species problematic. It’s supposed to be “survival of the fittest” but new species, by definition, are literally the *least fit* in terms of having viable offspring.

    And you seem to be claiming that a marathon runner can’t run for 100 meters because other people can too. Why Rex? What is your point here? And, well, I don’t know what you were trying to do with your explanation of logic vs empiricism vs maths but it was hilarious watching you try.

    No seriously, watching you create a self-serving definition of “logical proof” from thin air was quite something. You started saying that logic required (presumably) empirical evidence. And then you thought that empiricism was a “proof” but it was different to logic which you now claimed had nothing to do with empirical evidence. And then you reverted back to saying logic required empirical evidence.

    You were all over the shop.

    And I’m still mystified as to what point you were trying to make with the marathon runner and sprinter. I brought up marathon runners in regard to our capacity to deal with multiple pathogens. What do sprinters have to do with it?

  100. Figures says:

    Probability of getting measles, rubella or polio – low, maybe very low, but consequence possibly very bad indeed – hence desirability of vaccination is significant.

    It doesn’t matter what the consequence of getting the disease is – there could be a 100 per cent chance of your head exploding and it wouldn’t alter anything for our purposes – what matters is that, according to your logic, the vaccine can’t possibly work and/or the population already has immunity anyway.

    And do you even have the slightest clue what the probability of severe illness is if you have polio or measles or rubella virus in you?

  101. Rex Anger says:

    And, well, I don’t know what you were trying to do with your explanation of logic vs empiricism vs maths but it was hilarious watching you try.

    Says the man who, after all these months on the Cat to sharpen his ideas and presentation against thinking people, still can’t figure out exactly what definition actually applies to his gnosis, but desperately wants to be see himself as the ‘winner’ of the argument regardless of how his delusions are picked apart.

    So whatever the other person says about his dogma or his attempts to defend same, they are automatically and ridiculously wrong. It’s so much easier to mock and declare the other person has no idea of what you originally said than actually arguing the point…

  102. Tel says:

    Oh ok. So that’s why nobody needs to get a measles vaccine right?

    Nobody NEEDS to wear a seatbelt when driving, or a helmet on a bike, or safety glasses when cutting metal. Nobody NEEDS to wear shoes, our ancestors did just fine with bare feet. Heck … nobody NEEDS to live in a house, there are perfectly good trees to go back to.

    The virus has already been through the population before so no need to fear it (and even if there was reason to fear it, it has since changed so much that the decades old vaccine must be worthless).

    Well we have not so old statistics from Australia and measles used to kill a handful of people on average each year. The country won’t run out of people, and anyone with a good diet who has plenty of vitamin A can survive measles … with a week in bed. Is that enough to be afraid of? Personal taste I suppose.

    As for mutations and when the vaccine becomes useless, that’s already happening. No vaccine is perfect, and many (such as whooping cough, and tetanus) are known to wear off even in ideal conditions after about 10 years. Doctors very rarely tell adults they are at risk from whooping cough, and at risk from passing it on, and in many ways that’s a worse disease than measles. The media run in small circles howling about “anti-vaxers” while doctors sit quiet and refuse to explain the limitations of this technology, even though quite a lot of people would voluntarily get boosters as adults if they were told their childhood immunity had faded out. Makes no sense, but that’s modern life I suppose.

    Anyhow, there are small outbreaks turning up amongst vaccinated people, which points strongly towards a measles mutation.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time

    Although public health officials have assumed that measles immunity lasts forever, the case of Measles Mary highlights the reality that “the actual duration [of immunity] following infection or vaccination is unclear,” says Jennifer Rosen, who led the investigation as director of epidemiology and surveillance at the New York City Bureau of Immunization. The possibility of waning immunity is particularly worrisome as the virus surfaces in major U.S. hubs like Boston, Seattle, New York, and the Los Angeles area. Rosen doesn’t believe this single case merits a change in vaccination strategy—for example, giving adults booster shots—but she says that more regular surveillance to assess the strength of people’s measles immunity is warranted.

  103. Figures says:

    Anyhow, there are small outbreaks turning up amongst vaccinated people, which points strongly towards a measles mutation.

    Occam’s Razor. If measles vaccine still worked on *most* people then the odds of having a *cluster* (as opposed to sporadic cases) of vaccinated cases is negligible.

    The actual explanation is that the measles vaccine *never* worked and it only appeared to because a) doctors refused to diagnose it in vaccinated people; and b) the diagnostic criteria was strengthened (ie requiring a lab test (at least for sporadic cases)). But this reluctance on the part of doctors isn’t universal. Some doctors will diagnose (or at least test for) measles – even in the vaccinated – and they are especially likely to do so if they have heard of other people in the news being diagnosed with it.

    That is what has happened with pertussis. At first, doctors refused point blank to diagnose it in the vaccinated so the statistics made it appear as though the vaccine was wonderful. But, after a while, some doctors would actually bother to do the tests for pertussis in the vaccinated and, lo and behold, they got positive results. So the statistics started reversing, and as they reversed, more and more doctors were prepared to make the diagnosis in the vaccinated.

    It’s all a self-fulfilling prophecy – in both directions. In reality, the vaccine never stopped working because it never actually started working.

    The truly deranged part though is that no matter what happens to the government data in terms of whether or not it *appears* as though the vaccine works, there is never a call to stop the vaccine.

    The government data has always made it clear that the flu shot is a waste of time but instead of banning the shot they just tell us to get a new one every year.

    The complete uselessness of the pertussis vaccine (according to government data) is simply used as an excuse to blame “anti-vaxers” for spreading it to everybody. This is particularly astonishing given that there is no mechanism with which the vaccine can prevent transmission (it’s a toxoid vaccine and doesn’t and can’t prevent the bacteria itself even it worked perfectly).

    Every abject failure of every prediction about vaccinations is simply used as an excuse to double down.

    Vaccinations are history’s greatest example of brainwashing. Nothing else comes close. The followers of Jim Jones were barely one hundredth as brainwashed as the people debating me on this thread.

    By the way, I have an actual quote from the CDC *instructing* (well, encouraging very strongly) doctors not to diagnose measles if the patient is vaccinated. Indeed, I have similar quotes from various health agencies for all the so-called vaccine preventable diseases. The fact that doctors regularly miss these diseases in the vaccinated is not some wild speculation on my part – it is the clear instruction of the public health agencies. Of course, doctors don’t need much encouragement (or instruction) as their own “risk assessment” would incorporate vaccine status in their diagnosis anyway (it would have to, otherwise it would imply that doctors don’t believe in vaccines!)

  104. Timothy Neilson says:

    I said: Poor old Figures. It really is desperately sad.

    He’s just got no idea of risk management.

    Risk management is about probability and consequence.

    Figures said: It doesn’t matter what the consequence of getting the disease is – there could be a 100 per cent chance of your head exploding and it wouldn’t alter anything for our purposes

    Talk about proving my point.

  105. Figures says:

    Talk about proving my point.

    Do you understand that if a vaccine does not work against a particular disease, then no matter how dangerous said disease is, the decision as to whether you should get the vaccine will be exactly the same? Or at least, it will be if you’re not a brainwashed imbecile.

    By the way you didn’t answer if you were a trans activist. I assume you are given you don’t believe anything is binary. What did you do when your maths teacher taught you about base 2 numbers? What happens when you see an “On/Off” switch on electronics? Do you curl up in the fetal position and say “I must be in some kind of a nightmare”?

  106. Figures says:

    It was very amusing to see both you and Rex, like a dog with a bone, on the issue of “binary”. It’s become an obsession with you. You don’t understand what you’re talking about and you were never able to proffer up any significance or validity of your line of attack but it sounded so sophisticated and clever when you started with it that you just kept at it.

    You thought that if you just used the term “binary” One. More. Time then, somehow, you could magically change reality such that visiting a doctor office to *protect* yourself against sick people germs actually made sense.

  107. Timothy Neilson says:

    Do you understand that if a vaccine does not work against a particular disease, then no matter how dangerous said disease is, the decision as to whether you should get the vaccine will be exactly the same?

    Of course!

    By the way you didn’t answer if you were a trans activist. I assume you are given you don’t believe anything is binary.

    Poor old Figures, once again displaying his hopeless inability to understand anything beyond simple binary. It isn’t a case of either “everything is binary” or “everything isn’t binary”. Some things are, some things aren’t. But poor old Figures is too mentally defective to understand that.

    It’s desperately sad.

  108. Figures says:

    It isn’t a case of either “everything is binary” or “everything isn’t binary”. Some things are, some things aren’t.

    Right. So now you admit that every one of your attacks against my position was invalid.

  109. Figures says:

    Of course!

    Good. And do you understand that, following *your* logic of the evolution of viruses, the measles vaccine (along with rubella, polio, mumps, Hep B, etc) would be ineffective?

    I’ll even help you out by reminding you of what you said:

    As for viruses going extinct, or nearly, as a virus sweeps through a population, people get it – some are symptomatic and some are asymptomatic – and as their immune system adapts to that virus there are fewer and fewer viable hosts, so the virus tends either to die out, or to adapt into another form.

    Now, rationalise away!

  110. Figures says:

    ^ I should say “following your logic of the evolution of viruses, the measles vaccine (along with …) would be ineffective or completely superfluous”

  111. Rex Anger says:

    @ Tim-

    Isn’t it wonderful?

    IamPeter has finally demonstrated the variety we all knew he had deep down.

    He’s graduated from being a monomaniac, pseudointellectual caricature of a Randist, to a monomaniac, pseudointellectual caricature of a Gnostic…

  112. Timothy Neilson says:

    Right. So now you admit that every one of your attacks against my position was invalid.

    Poor old binary. Too stupid to understand anything except simple binary concepts. To take one example, he still can’t understand the idea of relative risk – half an hour, say, in a doctor’s rooms to get a vaccine, when there may be only one or two at most other patients passing through with a disease that’s “contagious” but actually quite difficult to catch on any one occasion (with the rest of the patients being malingerers, hypochondriacs, others seeking the vaccine, people with pure physical problems like a cut or a sprain, etc.), may well be a justifiable risk compared with spending the next several months in a crowded city of 5 million people packing into lifts and trams etc.

  113. Timothy Neilson says:

    Now, rationalise away!

    Poor old binary. Too stupid to understand the concept of relative risk. Simply too mentally defective to understand simple risk management variables like “low probability, severe consequence”. Of course he can’t understand that because it’s not simple binary – there’s multiple variables which each are on a spectrum rather than simple “yes” or “no”.

    It’s desperately sad.

  114. Timothy Neilson says:

    Rex Anger says:
    June 2, 2021 at 1:24 pm

    Well, it might be Iamashiteater.
    Or maybe there’s a training school to produce Dunning-Kruger effect dogmatists with zero logical skills but a penchant for strident self-beclownment.

  115. Timothy Neilson says:

    Sorry, just for poor old binary’s sake in case he’s misled, I should spell out .“…may well be a justifiable risk compared with spending the next several months unvaccinated in a crowded city of 5 million people packing into lifts and trams etc. where a significant proportion of the 5 million will be infected (whether symptomatic or asymptomatic).

  116. Figures says:

    but actually quite difficult to catch on any one occasion

    So difficult to catch when you are surrounded by the germs of hundreds of sick people concentrated in a half an hour but easy to catch when you occasionally stumble across one or two sick people over the course of several months.

    You know it makes sense.

    crowded city of 5 million people packing into lifts and trams etc

    So presumably disease was non-existent before the days of mass transit and rock concerts?

    I mean it’s funny really. Go to the ER in any hospital in any of your cities of over 5 million and there is little difference between that and mass transit (except that a much higher proportion of people in the hospital are sick). Not to mention hospitals in poorer countries – I’m guessing your average hospital in Bangladesh is pretty packed.

    You can’t see this because you’re not as smart as me but you’ve retreated. You see, you tried your pathetic “binary” obsession as a way to attack the validity of my logic but now you’ve retreated and are now forced to attack the premises. This means trying to make an argument that doctor offices aren’t really filled with sick people after all!

    By the way, if I live in the suburbs or rural areas and don’t take mass transit to work, would you agree that it is pointless for me to get myself or my kids any vaccines?

  117. Figures says:

    where a significant proportion of the 5 million will be infected (whether symptomatic or asymptomatic)

    I know you are deeply, deeply stupid but you do understand that just because you might live in a city with 5 million people, it doesn’t actually mean you will have an interaction with that many people in any given time period don’t you?

    On the other hand, if you regularly visit doctor offices (eg you’re a doctor or nurse or you like visiting them to get lots of vaccinations) then you will get lots of interaction with sick people.

  118. Timothy Neilson says:

    So difficult to catch when you are surrounded by the germs of hundreds of sick people concentrated in a half an hour but easy to catch when you occasionally stumble across one or two sick people over the course of several months.

    Poor old binary. No need for comment.

    So presumably disease was non-existent before the days of mass transit and rock concerts?

    Poor old binary. Unable to understand relative risks. Disease existed in crowded mediaeval cities. It existed in market towns in rural areas. It could spread via a few travellers or itinerants, or it could spread by a water supply. It could and still does spread in a variety of ways, but tends to spread faster in more crowded environments. It may well have proliferated more in the past when there was no knowledge of epidemiology – since John Snow tracked cholera to a water pump there’s been a tendency to watch out for sources of mass infection.

    This means trying to make an argument that doctor offices aren’t really filled with sick people after all!

    Poor old binary. Still mired in the excrement of his own mental deficiency, which makes him unable to understand that patients in a doctor’s office are there for a variety of different reasons, so even if the rooms are “crowded”, being there for a comparatively short time doesn’t necessarily mean being exposed to many (or even necessarily on any one occasion, any) patients who have diseases that spread very easily.

    By the way, if I live in the suburbs or rural areas and don’t take mass transit to work, would you agree that it is pointless for me to get myself or my kids any vaccines?

    Poor old binary, still mired in the world of absolutist “either/or”. Whether someone living in that environment would be wise to get a particular vaccine would depend on at least four factors:
    (a) how likely are they to get the virus or bacteria in their body? Less so in your example than someone living in a crowded environment, but probably not “zero”.
    (b) what are the likely effects of the disease if they do get it? In particular, what are the probabilities of very severe consequences?
    (c ) How effective is the vaccine likely to be in either or both stopping the virus or bacteria from taking hold, or reducing the severity of the consequences if it does? [Spoiler alert, binary – less than 100% efficacy does not mean that it’s necessarily pointless taking the vaccine. Any percentage above zero might, depending on the other three factors, justify taking the vaccine.]
    (d) what are the potential side effects of the vaccine, and what are the probabilities of suffering them, particularly the probabilities of severe ones?

  119. Timothy Neilson says:

    I know you are deeply, deeply stupid but you do understand that just because you might live in a city with 5 million people, it doesn’t actually mean you will have an interaction with that many people in any given time period don’t you?

    Poor old binary. Still mired in the excrement of thinking that everything’s “either/or”. Unable to understand ideas like matters of degree, or of probabilities. If you lead any sort of normal life in a city of 5 million people, you are going to come across a very large number of people over a period of several months.

    On the other hand, if you regularly visit doctor offices (eg you’re a doctor or nurse or you like visiting them to get lots of vaccinations) then you will get lots of interaction with sick people.

    Poor old binary. Still unable to understand matters of degree.
    Any doctor will tell you not to go to a hospital unless you’ve got a reason to go. That doesn’t mean that no-one should go there. Any doctor will tell you not to have an invasive procedure (like an injection) unless there’s sufficient reason to do so – that doesn’t mean that all invasive procedures are bad.
    And, yes, doctors and nurses do meet lots of sick people. It’s an occupational hazard. But they’re trained to take precautions as part of their job, precisely to minimise the risk that having to deal with a sick person will make them sick. And yet they will sometimes get sick.

  120. Figures says:

    It could spread via a few travellers or itinerants

    No it couldn’t. You assured me that being exposed to one or two sick people (which is how you described doctor offices) was a trivial risk.

    It may well have proliferated more in the past when there was no knowledge of epidemiology

    What does knowledge of epidemiology have to do with it? Are you saying that if I know a crowded train is dangerous then it magically becomes safe?

    Then let’s do that shall we? We don’t need vaccines, we just need to learn about epidemiology.

    being there for a comparatively short time doesn’t necessarily mean being exposed to many

    Well this “comparatively short time” in a doctor office would be a similar time to how long people are on mass transit for each time – and you assured me that mass transit was extremely high risk.

    how likely are they to get the virus or bacteria in their body?

    We have 40 trillion bacteria in and on our bodies and something like ten times that number of (what you would call) viruses. I suspect the probability of having any particular kind of virus in our body would head towards one.

    what are the likely effects of the disease if they do get it?

    Irrelevant because only a complete and utter moron would conclude that germs cause disease. If 400 trillion viruses in and on our bodies don’t cause us to get sick, what possible reason is there to be afraid of “catching” a few hundred more from someone in a train (or, for that matter, in a doctor office)?

    how effective is the vaccine likely to be in either or both stopping the virus or bacteria from taking hold, or reducing the severity of the consequences if it does?

    Zero. Because: a) germs don’t and can’t cause disease; and b) even if they could (and they can’t) no vaccine could possibly work because vaccines (ie immunity) are predicated on the idea that all infections are *acute* whereas the very concept of acute infection is known to be wrong.

    what are the potential side effects of the vaccine

    Which we are lied to about. And lied to in an incredibly brazen manner. Of course, people like you like being lied to. But for those of us who don’t, it’s a big problem that doctors admit that vaccines can indeed cause seizures but cannot possibly cause epilepsy.

    Doctors admit that poor sleep for a night, two nights, a week are caused by shots, but heaven forfend that poor sleep for a month or six months or two years could be caused by vaccines.

    Doctors admit that vaccines can cause headaches – but chronic migraines? That’s outrageous!

    Doctors admit that vaccines can cause tissue damage but tissue damage leading to paralysis? Don’t be silly! What are you some kind of a conspiracy theorist?

    Doctors admit that vaccines can cause a cough, but hospitalised due to respiratory distress? Naaah – never in a million years!

    You believe all this nonsense though don’t you? You actually believe doctors when they pat you on the head and tell you that vaccines can cause seizures but never ever cause epilepsy.

    How many bridges have you bought in your lifetime?

  121. Figures says:

    If you lead any sort of normal life in a city of 5 million people, you are going to come across a very large number of people over a period of several months.

    And here we go back to the beginning.

    Listen mate, according to you, being exposed to dozens of sick people germs *at the same time* is perfectly harmless (hence your belief that hospitals are perfectly safe). So coming across thousands of perfectly healthy people (with a few dozen sick people thrown in) over the course of several months is obviously even more perfectly harmless isn’t it?

    Astonishing, you actually seem to think that being exposed to low levels of these dastardly germs over a long period is *more dangerous* then massive simultaneous exposure!

    Are you truly that stupid Tim or are you just that desperate to lie to yourself?

  122. Rex Anger says:

    Or maybe there’s a training school to produce Dunning-Kruger effect dogmatists with zero logical skills but a penchant for strident self-beclownment.

    What a miserable thought… 🙁

  123. Rex Anger says:

    I suspect the probability of having any particular kind of virus in our body would head towards one.

    Best not tell Chad Thunderbrain here that all that ‘junnk DNA’ the human genome contains, is viral fragments.

    Passed on from generation to generation. And incorporating successfully defeated viral fragments from one’s own lifetime, to pass to one’s descendants…

  124. Infidel Tiger King says:

    Figures, how do people get sick in your world?

  125. Timothy Neilson says:

    No it couldn’t. You assured me that being exposed to one or two sick people (which is how you described doctor offices) was a trivial risk.

    Poor old binary. I have spelled out in detail that, yes, people can get sick from visiting a doctor’s rooms but that risk has to be weighed against the risk of not going to the doctor’s rooms. Poor old binary – utterly unable to understand relative risk.

    What does knowledge of epidemiology have to do with it? Are you saying that if I know a crowded train is dangerous then it magically becomes safe?

    Poor old binary. Immediately after that statement I expressly said since John Snow tracked cholera to a water pump there’s been a tendency to watch out for sources of mass infection, but poor old binary is too stupid to deal with more than one concept at a time, even one so closely related as knowing of a danger and watching out for it.

    Well this “comparatively short time” in a doctor office would be a similar time to how long people are on mass transit for each time – and you assured me that mass transit was extremely high risk

    Poor old binary. I never compared one journey on mass transit with one visit to a doctor’s office. But travelling on mass transit twice a day for several months might add up to a much higher risk than one visit to a doctor’s office. (In any case – newsflash – trams and train carriages are often much more crowded than a doctor’s office.)

    We have 40 trillion bacteria in and on our bodies and something like ten times that number of (what you would call) viruses. I suspect the probability of having any particular kind of virus in our body would head towards one.

    Poor old binary – there he goes again, unable to comprehend anything more complex than “either/or”.

    If 400 trillion viruses in and on our bodies don’t cause us to get sick, what possible reason is there to be afraid of “catching” a few hundred more from someone in a train (or, for that matter, in a doctor office)?

    Poor old binary. Mired in the excrement of assuming everything is totally “either/or” – believing that if one type of virus doesn’t make us sick, that proves that no type of virus can make us sick.

    Because: a) germs don’t and can’t cause disease

    Poor old binary. He’s become the Giotto of [pseudo-]logical reasoning. Now he’s trying to use the premise that “germs don’t and can’t cause disease” as an argument to support his supposed proof that germs don’t and can’t cause disease. It’s desperately sad.

    vaccines (ie immunity) are predicated on the idea that all infections are *acute*

    Poor old binary – he’s done it again. Medical science clearly acknowledges that some infections are chronic. But poor old binary can’t cope with any concept that isn’t a simple “either/or”.

    “… whereas the very concept of acute infection is known to be wrong”
    “Known”? How has that been demonstrated.

    Which we are lied to about. And lied to in an incredibly brazen manner.
    (I just know that if I ask how he knows this we’ll get more reasoning in a circle.)

    Listen mate, according to you, being exposed to dozens of sick people germs *at the same time* is perfectly harmless (hence your belief that hospitals are perfectly safe).

    Poor old binary – no matter how often I say that doctor’s rooms and hospitals aren’t perfectly safe, but it may be safer to go there than not go there, poor old binary just can’t get it. “Safer than the alternative” must, to poor old binary, mean “perfectly safe” because his mental abilities aren’t up to the task of understanding the relativity.

  126. Rex Anger says:

    Figures, how do people get sick in your world?

    They get traumatised, ITK.

    Then apparently resolving that trauma causes disease. Chad Thunderbrain likes to cite an example of an office worker getting a cold on holiday because they resolved their stress.

    Or you develop lung cancer or TB and cough up blood because a doctor said something to you and you got scared. Ans you get more scared because of the bloody coughing, and die.

    And something about opossums and paralysis.

    Chad Thunderbrain thinks if you Harden Up, you will never be sick…

  127. Timothy Neilson says:

    They get traumatised, ITK.

    Then apparently resolving that trauma causes disease.

    This is of course incontrovertible, Rex.

    As we all know, a particular type of mental trauma afflicted those residents of Soho who used the Broad Street water pump, while next door neighbours who used a different pump were immune from that type of mental trauma.
    And when John Snow got the local council to disable the Broad Street pump, all associated mental traumas were resolved.

    That’s why John Snow is recognised as one of the founders of modern psychology.

  128. Rex Anger says:

    That’s why John Snow is recognised as one of the founders of modern psychology.

    Didn’t John Snow know nothing?

    Or am I getting Chad Thunderbrain’s posturing mixed up with a popular entertainment meme? 🤔

  129. Rex Anger says:

    psychology

    Prod Chad Thunderbrain hard enough, and I am sure we’ll provoke an L. Ron Hubbard-esque rant about the evils of psychology, the stupidity and mendacity ofneveryone who practises it and how there isabsolutely nothing wrong with him and how we’re all the delusional ones instead, etc. etc. etc…

  130. Figures says:

    Thanks Tim for your Goldilocks post.

    Germs are exactly as dangerous as they need to be such that if Tim says you should visit a place filled to the brim with sick people then you’ll be fine, however, if Tim says you should be utterly petrified of the possibility of coming across a few sick people over the course of several months then you need to inject yourself with every vaccine known to man prior to doing so.

    Germs are magic. They’re always exactly as dangerous or harmless as they need to be in any situation such that Tim’s ridiculous theories remain valid.

    Now tell me, how do we acquire immunity to viruses that infect us on a chronic basis?

  131. Figures says:

    Prod Chad Thunderbrain hard enough, and I am sure we’ll provoke an L. Ron Hubbard-esque rant about the evils of psychology

    You can’t lay a glove on any of my arguments so instead you just make up stuff that I *might* believe and try and attack that. Well done.

    Now, I want to know. Are the germs of sick people a) dangerous; or b) not dangerous?

    If they are, why would anyone visit (much less become) a doctor? If they’re not, why would anybody listen to a doctor (at least when it came to disease)?

  132. Figures says:

    I have spelled out in detail that, yes, people can get sick from visiting a doctor’s rooms but that risk has to be weighed against the risk of not going to the doctor’s rooms.

    If there is significant risk in sick people germs then you would *never* visit a doctor (and you sure as hell wouldn’t become a doctor). If there is no significant risk in sick people germs then you would never visit a doctor on the matter of disease.

    So tell me. Is there significant risk in being around sick people germs or not?

    It’s a very simple question. Yes or no. A binary if you will.

    since John Snow tracked cholera to a water pump there’s been a tendency to watch out for sources of mass infection

    I know you said it but so what? How does the fact (well, fact according to you) that we think we know the source of an infection mean that it magically stops spreading?

    Poor old binary – there he goes again, unable to comprehend anything more complex than “either/or”.

    As attempts at avoiding the main point go that is pretty feeble mate. Why should I believe that germs are dangerous when everybody is a teeming pile of them? I note that morons like you will say things like “vaccines must be safe because the aluminium in them is less than the amount you swallow” (completely ignoring the fact that injection is neither qualitatively nor quantitatively the same as ingestion) but for some bizarre reason you refuse to use a more sensible application of the same logic when it comes to germs. Apparently you think that trillions of viruses in my body is nothing, but a few thousand from being sneezed on will kill me.

    Now he’s trying to use the premise that “germs don’t and can’t cause disease” as an argument to support his supposed proof that germs don’t and can’t cause disease.

    Well no mate I was merely pointing out that your claim as to the justification for taking any particular vaccine was based on a series of assumptions that are the source of contention in this discussion and so were worthless.

    no matter how often I say that doctor’s rooms and hospitals aren’t perfectly safe, but it may be safer to go there than not go there, poor old binary just can’t get it

    It doesn’t matter how often you assert your ridiculous Goldilocks’ germ dangers contention, it doesn’t magically allow it to make sense. If being around the germs of lots and lots of sick people (some of them might have “minor” illnesses and some of them would have “severe” illnesses (and all of them have illnesses sufficient to justify a trip to the hospital/doctor office)) is not particularly dangerous then getting a vaccine cannot possibly be worth it under any circumstances.

    Either being around sick people is a) significantly dangerous; or b) not significantly dangerous. If a) then you would never visit a doctor. If b) you would never get a vaccine.

  133. Rex Anger says:

    3 wordwalls of enraged inanity from Chad Thunderbrain the lunatic.

    If he gets any more upset, he may contract syphilis…

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.