m0nty – AFL must address historical child abuse

Reigning Gold Quill Award winner Russell Jackson has spent much of 2021 researching and reporting on historical child abuse at VFL clubs in the 1970s. He started with a story on Rod Owens which included a passage on his abuse, then a more expansive look at Darrel Ray who coached the St Kilda Little League side for 11 years and used his power and influence to abuse a string of boys, aided by team manager Albert Briggs. On the weekend Jackson posted another harrowing tale of John Dennis Morice who was in a similar position for Carlton for four years, with similarly criminal results.

Once you start pulling at the threads on this kind of story, it takes a long time to unravel. Jackson is most definitely not finished, as there is much more to uncover from what was a shameful time in the VFL’s history. That league’s modern successor, the AFL, has not as yet reported on this story through its journalistic arm AFL Media, even though both St Kilda and Carlton have made statements to Jackson. Today the Fox Sports site made its first report on the matter, with Tom Morris being suitably respectful of Jackson’s scoop. It remains to be seen whether that report or ones like it will make it to the Herald-Sun or other News Corp outlets.

Catallaxy readers might recall that the AFL did not make a submission to the Royal Commission into institutional responses to childhood sexual abuse. Sports institutions got off relatively scot free, in fact, despite sports being a prime locus of young children in their most vulnerable years. I bring this up not to throw the AFL to the wolves of the culture wars, though Cats may wish to do so, but to point out that the league has not wanted to address this issue in the past, and to this date has still not addressed it, even with a simple report in AFL Media.

Only the naive would think that the paedophile curse was restricted to two VFL clubs in those days, not to mention other state leagues, or suburban and rural footy. The more reporting that Russell Jackson does, the more the silence by the AFL will seem poor in retrospect. There must be a reckoning, and that will only start by acknowledging the truth.

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135 Responses to m0nty – AFL must address historical child abuse

  1. Albatross says:

    Reigning Gold Quill Award winner

    Stopped reading right there.

  2. Rosie says:

    More clear evidence that child abuse was a broad societal issue winked at by too many of the adults in charge back then.

  3. Albatross says:

    Rosie says:
    June 7, 2021 at 6:04 pm
    More clear evidence that child abuse was a broad societal issue winked at by too many of the adults in charge back then.

    What a pile of dribbling codshit. The real child abusers are those promoting transgenderism to children. Funny how those promoting this absurd historicism and sexualised medical experimentation on children overlap exactly. Really activates the almonds.

  4. Dot says:

    AFL must address historical child abuse

    No.

    Fifty years ago.

    It makes as much sense as suing a company for liability for a defective product fifty years ago.

    If you removed the corporate veil – no one can be held accountable.

    All the AFL can do is compensate and follow current policy.

    They can do nothing more. That is to say, they can actually do very little.

    You may as well hold an auto de fei for dead prisoners or fugitives that are well past their expected lifespan.

  5. mundi says:

    The AFL are also tax cheats.

    The ability not to pay tax is only for sporting clubs and associations. The AFL is a limited liability company – who you can not join or become a member of, so is neither a club nor association. The AFL consitution declares 18 members – which receive money from the AFL – this is illegal for a club or association – members are not allowed to recieve money and yet claim tax free status.

    The AFL has quite simply relied on neither government being game enough to call them out on it.

    If you try and start your own sporting body, and run it like the AFL, you will get dragged to the courts for tax evasion in your first year.

    The AFL are masters of cover ups and spin. Everything is done quitely behind back doors with links all through government.

  6. Seco says:

    Sure, right after the Australian Labor Party do the same. You’d agree hey Monty.

  7. Rosie says:

    I’m referring to the constant figure pointing at the Catholic church being responsible for all historic sex abuse because Latin rite priests are celibate.

    A completely separate issue to the current transgender epidemic.

    Not to mention the constant finger pointing at me being the cat’s resident ‘hysterical scold’.

  8. Rosie says:

    Finger pointing at the Catholic church of which Monty is also guilty.

  9. Seco says:

    If only football coaches could marry…

  10. Timothy Neilson says:

    The AFL is a limited liability company – who you can not join or become a member of,

    If you join one of the AFL Clubs, you become a “member”, in the Corporations Act sense, of a limited liability company (liable, I think, to contribute some token amount if the company goes broke).
    Is “AFL membership” similar, or is it just even more of a glorified season ticket than a club membership?

  11. Sinclair Davidson says:

    The AFL are also tax cheats.

    Having an organisational structure that is fully compliant with the law of the land and results in not paying does not make you a ‘tax cheat’.

  12. Megan says:

    The AFL is a cartel. Tells you all you need to know.

  13. Ed Case says:

    Fifty years ago.

    It makes as much sense as suing a company for liability for a defective product fifty years ago.

    Not too many 50 year old products still in use today.
    Human children from 50 years ago, that’s a different story.

  14. Infidel Tiger says:

    More clear evidence that child abuse was a broad societal issue winked at by too many of the adults in charge back then.

    Exactly.

    Sports teachers abused far more kids than Priests ever will.

  15. Infidel Tiger says:

    It was well known when growing up you had to be careful around swimming teachers and scout masters.

  16. Dot says:

    Human children from 50 years ago, that’s a different story.

    Presumably they’ve been adults for 40 years.

    The management is totally different.
    Any offenders are likely dead.
    The chance of proving any case civilly let alone criminally is very low.
    Then there is the issue of corporate succession – is the AFL or current VFL actually liable, if at all, not the clubs, if at all?

  17. JC says:

    Exactly.

    Sports teachers abused far more kids than Priests ever will.

    I was shocked reading this. We were living in the US and huge scandal broke out about young boys being molested by scout masters. The WSJ suggested that parents work on the assumption that all scout masters were molesters. FMD

  18. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    Does that include abuse of a 13 year old girl by an on-field player during a game?
    Destroyed her life basically.

  19. Chris M says:

    Get you claims in now, Viklabor might on the cusp of making this stuff legal.

  20. C.L. says:

    If only football coaches could marry…

    This Wins.

  21. Professor Fred Lenin says:

    JC the US is very familiar with child molesters, the elite stole an election to make a rockspider president, gives you some idea of their toleration fof filth .

  22. MatrixTransform says:

    mUnty postures about good and right and proper.

    he’s an activist

    use The Force mUnty

  23. C.L. says:

    Good post, Monster.
    I agree with you – provided, of course, that it doesn’t turn into an ABC-style jamboree.

  24. Old Lefty says:

    The royal commission was, of course, just a political hit job on enemies of the cultural revolution, intended to get at Abbott through discrediting the churches, and in particular the Catholic Church.

    The Tasmanian government has commissioned an inquiry of its own into state institutions, including the state education department, which McClellan and his wise monkeys completely ignored.

  25. Old Lefty says:

    NSW police have charged a lezzo PE teacher at Cromer High (state school) with abuse of a female student in the 80s, as one of the outcomes of the strike force set up after the Teachers’ Pet series. Don’t, of course, bother looking for ABC reporting on the case: there isn’t any.

  26. m0nty says:

    More clear evidence that child abuse was a broad societal issue winked at by too many of the adults in charge back then.

    The Royal Commission was into the institutional responses, not technically the abuses themselves. The Catholic Church has deserved everything coming to it on this issue, and the fact that the AFL is only now being scrutinised for what is a terrible history of its own does not absolve church leaders for failing their flocks.

    Russell’s reporting has been exemplary, but it doesn’t contain any detail at all on the institutional response by the clubs and league to these men. I believe the current St Kilda and Carlton executives who claim no knowledge of the historical offences, but it is an indictment that they don’t know to be honest. It should be a permanent stain on the history that everyone at the club should be aware of, not hidden behind a veil of shameful secrecy.

    Russell’s specialty appears to be telling the victims’ stories, which is the necessary first step but not the last. There are other footy journos with different backgrounds who should be following up the institutional aspects of the offences: how the offenders operated for years before being rumbled, whether anyone at the club knew, how long the offenders lasted between their first “strike” with management and when they left the club, whether they were finally kicked out because of the offences or not. So much more reporting to do. We can’t have another RC, presumably, so the journos will have to step up on behalf of the victims.

  27. a happy little debunker says:

    An offender who worked at a Mental health facility
    An offender that worked as a School teacher

    Seems to me that these offenders were able to parley their trusted roles in the Victorian Government into ever greater opportunities at offending.
    Rather than seeking redress from the Footy Clubs, maybe the victims should be asking for compensation from the Government departments who had given these perverts these ‘positions of trust’.

    BTW – these perverts probably never honour the maxim ‘ Don’t shit where you eat’…

  28. Dot says:

    The Catholic Church has deserved everything coming to it on this issue

    You mean like false claims, the RC taking on claims of proven perjurers and false accusers, obnoxious schadenfreude at the dodgy Pell verdict, vandalisation of Carmelite monasteries, a talking point for dumb bigots; even after Pell made his own reforms?

  29. m0nty says:

    You mean like false claims, the RC taking on claims of proven perjurers and false accusers, obnoxious schadenfreude at the dodgy Pell verdict, vandalisation of Carmelite monasteries, a talking point for dumb bigots; even after Pell made his own reforms?

    Yes, Dot. On balance, what the Church did was far, far worse than those things. Doesn’t make those things right in isolation, of course, but they deserved what they got.

  30. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “m0nty – AFL must address historical child abuse”

    I stopped reading right there….this is the same person who joined in the pile on of an innocent man…who called him here on the Cat a “rock spider”.

  31. C.L. says:

    I played school-boys league and union from Grade 1 through to adolescence and into my 20s. In that time, we were with – travelled with, shared change-rooms etc with – older boys or men, coached by teachers and non-teachers. Never saw or experienced or heard tell of anything untoward in all those years.

    However, in a professional setting years later, one coach I remembered (but didn’t know per se) was revealed to be an abuser and was convicted. I realised that it didn’t really matter what even a large number of blokes might remember.

    These animals are very sneaky and usher particular boys away to private domains without anyone knowing. It is impossible to tell how big the icebergs of damage truly are.

    The presence of women coaches, mentors and married couples in youth sporting scenes is – IMO – crucial. A danger period is – or used to be – that period when boys left schools-based competition and entered the clubs, with their various non-registered outsiders in coaching and other roles. Clubs used to cultivate a Marine Corps-style roughhousing culture meant to take boys away from play and into sport. This promoted a boof-headed ethos within which, paradoxically, predators could camoflauge themselves in machismo.

    My five cents’ worth from the other codes.

  32. mh says:

    It was well known when growing up you had to be careful around swimming teachers and scout masters.

    This.

  33. Dot says:

    Yes, Dot. On balance, what the Church did was far, far worse than those things. Doesn’t make those things right in isolation, of course, but they deserved what they got.

    “The church” did not do this. Your views are absurd and border on blood libel.

  34. Dot says:

    Yes, Dot. On balance, what the Church did was far, far worse than those things. Doesn’t make those things right in isolation, of course, but they deserved what they got.

    “The church” did not do this. Your views are absurd and border on a class based libel.

  35. m0nty says:

    Bit of shush from you Dot, you’re embarrassing yourself.

  36. Rex Anger says:

    Bit of shush from you Dot, you’re embarrassing yourself.

    Says the religious zealot himself…

  37. Dot says:

    No, you shut up, you are embarrassing yourself.

    The church deserved false accusations, bigotry and vandalism because of the sins of very few – an awful metric, but less proportionally in other churches, sporting & cultural groups and schools.

    You can’t be serious monty.

    You must want a pogrom against the State schools and ALP.

  38. candy says:

    Well let’s see what Louise Milligan says about it all.

    Not Catholics – so I am guessing nothing.

  39. C.L. says:

    Mont, you have a credibility problem, as Dot correctly points out.

    You wanted Pell GOT because he was an ideological enemy.

  40. m0nty says:

    “class-based libel” LOL, come on Dot, give it a rest.

    Part of the point of this post is to shift attention from the Church, who have had their whack, to non-secular institutions. You are not helping.

  41. Boambee John says:

    On balance, what the Church did was far, far worse than those things.

    Let me re-phrase this.

    “On balance, what the VFL/AFL did was far, far worse than those things.”

    Neither “the Church” nor the “AFL/VFL” did these things. Individuals did those perverted things. Where the higher organisations need to be held to account is in their responses.

    In retrospect, Cdl Pell’s actions with the Melbourne Response, and his attempts to make VICPOL act appropriately will be seen as exemplars of what organisations should do about their bad apples. I wonder will the now leaders of the AFL/VFL have the courage to match Cdl Pell? And will their predecessors attempt to duck shove their own failings on those who followed them (as happened with Cdl Pell)?

  42. Cassie of Sydney says:

    A small edit Candy…..”Not Catholics or conservatives – so I am guessing nothing“.

  43. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “Mont, you have a credibility problem, as Dot correctly points out.

    You wanted Pell GOT because he was an ideological enemy.”

    Correct.

  44. Cassie of Sydney says:

    Oh…and what about the ALP addressing historical abuse at young Labor camps?

  45. feelthebern says:

    Did any of the AFL clubs have an electric shock machine in their basements?

  46. Dot says:

    I don’t believe in collective punishment monty.

    You do, and you extend it to the most misinformed, bigoted & some of the worst categories of criminal vigilantism; fraud, intimidation, vandalism, barratry, perjury and incitement.

  47. Rex Mango says:

    BoN, excellent point. A 13 year old girl was abused by a professional footballer & Vicpol/Security infront thousands of people, live on tv at the MCG.

  48. m0nty says:

    Mont, you have a credibility problem, as Dot correctly points out.

    You wanted Pell GOT because he was an ideological enemy.

    To be honest Lad, I was surprised when Pell was had up on charges. The Melbourne Response had some major flaws, and Pell was to blame for those, but I didn’t think he was an actual rock spider.

    He was convicted by a jury of his peers, and as far as I could make out at the time from this large distance, he got as fair a trial as could be expected under such circumstances. Then the High Court decided that a jury couldn’t be trusted with something as important as a trial under those circumstances. That is their prerogative.

    No one got what they wanted out of this sorry affair. The real villains are the perpetrators, and to a different (and lesser?) extent those who enabled them. We know the names of the perps in the AFL cases, but the unanswered question now is what happened during those 11 years at St Kilda and four years at Carlton behind the scenes in clubrooms. Was there a similarly shameful cover up by club officials, did they attempt to sweep reports under the carpet like the Church? If so, they also deserve what the Church copped.

  49. Rex Anger says:

    , but I didn’t think he was an actual rock spider.

    Riiiight…

  50. Forester says:

    What should happen is an enquiry into why VicPol turned a blind eye and covered it all up.

    I was in scouts and swimming during the 1960s and never witnessed or experienced anything untoward. But I certainly would have had no fear of telling my parents if I had.

  51. mh says:

    Stunning and brave.

  52. Rex Anger says:

    he got as fair a trial as could be expected under such circumstances

    I.E. None.

    . Then the High Court decided that a jury couldn’t be trusted with something as important as a trial under those circumstance

    Cheap shot, but nothing new from our mendacious m0nster…

    No one got what they wanted out of this sorry affair

    Nobody on your side, anyway.

  53. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “but I didn’t think he was an actual rock spider.”

    Then why did you call him one?

    “m0nty says:
    December 13, 2019 at 10:49 am
    “We need to free a convicted rock spider to try to fix up centuries-old corruption in the Church” seems like an odd take.”

    You’re a hypocrite….and a particularly disgraceful one at that.

  54. Dot says:

    The Melbourne Response had some major flaws, and Pell was to blame for those

    What are they?

    but I didn’t think he was an actual rock spider.

    He isn’t. The offences were physically and chronologically impossible. His accuser perjured himself in the committal and changed his complaint affidavit at least three times.

    Let’s not go into the utter lack of professionalism and malfeasance of Fox, Waller, Wallingford & Kidd right now.

    He was convicted by a jury of his peers, and as far as I could make out at the time from this large distance, he got as fair a trial as could be expected under such circumstances. Then the High Court decided that a jury couldn’t be trusted with something as important as a trial under those circumstances. That is their prerogative.

    Piffle. They ruled that the case against him was so flawed that it was a miscarriage of justice under the relevant Victorian criminal appeal provisions. His mistrial (held in secret) was actually 1 – 11 not guilty.

    Feel free to talk about the AFL anytime.

  55. m0nty says:

    Then why did you call him one?

    He was convicted of being one, at that stage. He was officially a rock spider. His status has since changed.

  56. rickw says:

    What should happen is an enquiry into why VicPol turned a blind eye and covered it all up.

    Exactly.

  57. m0nty says:

    Feel free to talk about the AFL anytime.

    I’m trying to, but you keep bringing up the Church! Geez.

  58. mh says:

    BoN, excellent point. A 13 year old girl was abused by a professional footballer & Vicpol/Security infront thousands of people, live on tv at the MCG.

    Yes, a low point in Australian sport and Australian society.

    The child abuser was then awarded with the AOTY honour.

  59. Dot says:

    I’m trying to, but you keep bringing up the Church! Geez.

    Actually you did. At 7:44 PM.

  60. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “He was convicted of being one, at that stage. He was officially a rock spider. His status has since changed.”

    And you never retracted…by the way fatso…no one is ever “officially a rock spider”.

  61. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “I’m trying to, but you keep bringing up the Church! Geez”

    Because you have zero credibility.

  62. rickw says:

    he got as fair a trial as could be expected under such circumstances

    That’s so bloody Soviet.

    A fair trial is an absolute thing, not a relative thing.

  63. m0nty says:

    Me: let’s talk about rock spiders in institutions other than the Church

    Cats: BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CHURCH

  64. Dot says:

    Chat: Let’s discuss the VFL/AFL

    No one: Monty, 7:44 PM – Catholic church, whatabouttisms.

  65. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “m0nty says:
    June 7, 2021 at 9:10 pm
    Me: let’s talk about rock spiders in institutions other than the Church

    Cats: BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CHURCH”

    MONTY HAS ZERO CREDIBILITY.

  66. m0nty says:

    Don’t go through life with such a hair trigger, Dot. It’s not healthy.

  67. Dot says:

    Neither’s a BMI of 50, but you do you.

  68. Boambee John says:

    m0nty says:
    June 7, 2021 at 8:58 pm
    Then why did you call him one?

    He was convicted of being one, at that stage. He was officially a rock spider. His status has since changed.

    Weak as p1ss. I was going to suggest that munty stop squirming, but how else can a worm move?

  69. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha says:

    More popcorn, anyone?

  70. mh says:

    🍿🍿🍿

  71. rickw says:

    AFL must address historical child abuse

    How? Throw around large amounts of $? Say sorry on behalf of individuals who perpetrated these vile acts and those who failed to act?

    Holding organisations accountable for the actions of individuals within them is ridiculous unless the organisation openly supported the very same actions.

    All this idiocy amounts to is a recipe for the destruction of everything.

    It’s societal scorched earth.

    Imagine if some rock spider infiltrated fantasy football and then decades later……

  72. Sinclair Davidson says:

    m0nty – did I not warn you this was going to happen?

  73. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “rickw says:
    June 7, 2021 at 9:24 pm”

    Excellent comment.

  74. Dot says:

    He brought it on himself.

  75. mh says:

    Sinclair Davidson says:
    June 7, 2021 at 9:25 pm
    m0nty – did I not warn you this was going to happen?

    Such low hanging fruit:

    Monstrous rock spider stays in gaol. Good.

  76. C.L. says:

    Rick makes a good point.
    There has to be a balance between ‘righting wrongs’ and just letting go of things no-one alive is guilty of (when and if that is the case).

    Now, because there usually aren’t too many of these historical criminals still around, the discourse usually becomes one centering on ‘institutions.’ So, for example, the media continually blamed ‘the Church’ for abuse or – to get back on topic – the AFL. But that is a gross injustice to the hundreds of thousands of people who ARE ‘the Church’ and the ‘AFL.’

    What it seems to boil down to, alas, is grievance spokesmen needing the institution because only the institution can a) pay out; and b) satisfy the summit fever of campaigners by inaugurating ‘cultural change.’

  77. mh says:

    It’s just red and blue teams to monty.

    Just a childish game dressed up in adult attire.

  78. m0nty says:

    m0nty – did I not warn you this was going to happen?

    Like I said, day ending in Y, enh.

    Cats are not the audience for this post. What I am trying to do is add to pressure on the AFL to address the issue, from a range of different angles.

  79. mh says:

    From the OT

    Cassie of Sydney says:
    June 7, 2021 at 8:20 pm
    Andrew Bolt revealed tonight that Cardinal Pell has arrived back in Sydney and is in quarantine. It’s his 80th birthday tomorrow. Happy Birthday Cardinal Pell.

    Here here!

  80. Rex Anger says:

    What it seems to boil down to, alas, is grievance spokesmen needing the institution because only the institution can a) pay out; and b) satisfy the summit fever of campaigners by inaugurating ‘cultural change.’

    Which Benito M0ntylini pretty much admitted to below:

    What I am trying to do is add to pressure on the AFL to address the issue, from a range of different angles.

  81. C.L. says:

    I back your reportage, Monster.
    Post updates, as they occur.

  82. m0nty says:

    Now, because there usually aren’t too many of these historical criminals still around, the discourse usually becomes one centering on ‘institutions.’ So, for example, the media continually blamed ‘the Church’ for abuse or – to get back on topic – the AFL. But that is a gross injustice to the hundreds of thousands of people who ARE ‘the Church’ and the ‘AFL.’

    What it seems to boil down to, alas, is grievance spokesmen needing the institution because only the institution can a) pay out; and b) satisfy the summit fever of campaigners by inaugurating ‘cultural change.’

    I think it’s important to note that the Church was singled out for treatment because of the known history of sending offenders to different parishes and letting them reoffend. I don’t know of many other societal institutions that did that, or at least not to that extent. Maybe I am ignorant on that point, I am sure I will be educated in this thread if so.

    Specifically, we just don’t know yet whether there were any board members or other such powerbrokers in 1970s VFL footy who enabled offenders to reoffend. The fact that Ray and Briggs lasted for 11 years in their positions suggests something should have been done earlier. That’s the missing piece, the institutional response.

    What is the point of going over old offences? First, because the victims deserve the truth to come out, if anyone other than the perpetrators is to blame for the offences, for them to find some sense of relief that their suffering was not quietly condoned by society. Second, if the institutions are partly to blame, then yes pay outs are warranted, these are ruined lives we are talking about here. I don’t think the cultural change issue is relevant in sport, though.

  83. Dot says:

    Second, if the institutions are partly to blame, then yes pay outs are warranted, these are ruined lives we are talking about here. I don’t think the cultural change issue is relevant in sport, though.

    How is the AFL in 2021 morally (or legally) obligated for what happened in a VFL club (not the VFL itself) in the 1970s?

  84. m0nty says:

    How is the AFL in 2021 morally (or legally) obligated for what happened in a VFL club (not the VFL itself) in the 1970s?

    It’s effectively the same organisation, Dot. If St Kilda gets sued and loses money, it will ask the AFL for extra handouts. That’s how it works in practice.

  85. Dot says:

    They should be paid out of the suitor’s fund or insurance. I can’t fathom the morality of making a club or the AFL pay up, for what what happened up to five decades ago. There is no moral fault that can be carried like that.

    There are many generations of different managers that have cycled through.

  86. Seco says:

    Someone could probably point it out but has Monty ever said anything about the Labor Party and the rock spiders amongst its ranks? Nobody can convince me that nobody in the Labor Party knew about Collins.

    And just on this topic, in most cases local cops knew and did nothing. End of story – it stops with them. The fact is this was considered something weirdly accepted but not talked about in those days and it seems not many people knew how to deal with the men in question especially since cops turned a blind eye. Gerard Henderson often a brings up the ABC program which sympathetically treated pedos. The Greens were all for it back in the day and don’t get started on the arts and Hollywood. And why is it overwhelmingly boys singled out?

    Go after the AFL for sins 50 years ago? Sure, why not. I’m done with Collingwood anyway thanks to their racism bullshit kowtowing to Harry O. May as well put a bullet in the rest of it.

  87. dover_beach says:

    Doesn’t make those things right in isolation, of course, but they deserved what they got.

    That makes no sense. If something is not right, it is undeserved.

  88. dover_beach says:

    Rick makes a good point.
    There has to be a balance between ‘righting wrongs’ and just letting go of things no-one alive is guilty of (when and if that is the case).

    Now, because there usually aren’t too many of these historical criminals still around, the discourse usually becomes one centering on ‘institutions.’ So, for example, the media continually blamed ‘the Church’ for abuse or – to get back on topic – the AFL. But that is a gross injustice to the hundreds of thousands of people who ARE ‘the Church’ and the ‘AFL.’

    What it seems to boil down to, alas, is grievance spokesmen needing the institution because only the institution can a) pay out; and b) satisfy the summit fever of campaigners by inaugurating ‘cultural change.’

    This.

  89. dover_beach says:

    I think it’s important to note that the Church was singled out for treatment because of the known history of sending offenders to different parishes and letting them reoffend. I don’t know of many other societal institutions that did that, or at least not to that extent. Maybe I am ignorant on that point, I am sure I will be educated in this thread if so.

    Old Lefty’s work on reporting child abuse in the State system suggests that did this as well. Still, is there a difference in asking for someone’s resignation and moving them to another school or parish? Both moves seem to involve just moving the offenders to others along the line.

  90. thefrollickingmole says:

    Its simple, pedos will naturally seek out positions that give them access to kids, preferably with the cover of a large organization.

    That means larger proportions of teachers, sports, clergy, police, scouts, musicians, welfare workers, pollies etc will be pedo nests.
    Its the nature of the people involved to do this and since almost no organization has historically done well in preventing it, very effective for the predators.

    How do you square the circle of trusted organizations being colonized by abusers?
    Any predators caught should be punished but how do you avoid damaging what in may cases are useful organizations to the wider community?

  91. m0nty says:

    Old Lefty’s work on reporting child abuse in the State system suggests that did this as well. Still, is there a difference in asking for someone’s resignation and moving them to another school or parish? Both moves seem to involve just moving the offenders to others along the line.

    If the practice of demanding resignations resulted in reoffending at other schools, then yes the institution was to blame. I don’t know how prevalent that was.

    I think there is a difference in what the Church did, as they directly enabled further offending with directives from the highest regional levels.

  92. H B Bear says:

    Late to this particular party. I think mUnty will find that there were/are (albeit fewer) p***ofiles in any group that provided them with access to children. One art teacher at my school (private boys school for Year 7 primary) did time after getting pinged at another private school. I certainly did not know anything at the time although this may not have been the case with the boarders amongst which the offending took place. It was hard to see Gillard’s Royal Commission (and similar exercises such as the one proposed here) as cynical political exercises with much benefit for the few remaining people affected

  93. H B Bear says:

    I think there is a difference in what the Church did, as they directly enabled further offending with directives from the highest regional levels.

    As opposed to, say, State Departments of Education who, with the help of various State school teachers unions, did exactly the same thing.

  94. H B Bear says:

    If not help then an incurious aversion of their eyes,

  95. H B Bear says:

    In the case at my old school I don’t know whether he was given the chance to resign and what (if anything) was said when he sought re-employment as a teacher, which was his profession. It is now 30 years ago and the relevant headmaster is dead, which could be expected to be the case for many historical examples. I cannot imagine any written records would be of the least help whatsoever.

  96. FlyingPigs says:

    m0nty

    yuan hell of a story.

    how come you didn’t work Pell into your story.

    good yuan though.

    when will your next story be published at yuan ABC?

  97. Ed Case says:

    It was well known when growing up you had to be careful around swimming teachers and scout masters.

    Police Boys Clubs and Junior Rugby League were 2 others..
    I was surprised to find out the number of blokes from the local Scout Hall who took their own lives.

  98. Bad Samaritan says:

    Everybody knew that sports trainers / coaches, priests, scoutmasters etc were often paedos back in the day. The ABC told the leftists of the day that “pedestry’ was entirely normal, and this was echoed, re-enforced by the ABC’s own staff members: oz’s most trusted public intellectuals.

    In various jurisdictions leftist political commanders helped with this: example Milton Orkopoulos’ Chief of staff was made premier in NSW for his efforts in this regard.

    Monty is correct that rabid leftists running the AFL who are now supporting gay footy rounds , paedo footy rounds, beating up on autistic 13 year old girls from broken homes in an ape-like manner etc, should be held responsible.

    I applaud the calorie-bomb for coming out of his Krispy Kloset in such a timely fashion. Better 40 years late than neverland!

  99. H B Bear says:

    Monty is correct that rabid leftists running the AFL who are now supporting gay footy rounds , paedo footy rounds, beating up on autistic 13 year old girls from broken homes in an ape-like manner etc, should be held responsible.

    Why?

  100. pete m says:

    Insurance does not cover this.

    There are many churches about to go under from these claims. Their present day congregations will need to start from scratch.

  101. FlyingPigs says:

    you are an ABC shill m0nty..

    how much money are you being paid for your fuckwitt fulminations.

  102. FlyingPigs says:

    are you on child services watch because of your fixation on child sex…..

    no mention though of clits cut off mo girls…

    no mention of aborted female babies…

    you are filth m0

  103. Fair Shake says:

    I suspect abuse was in all levels of sport. I played Aussie Rules as a teenager in the country. Loved every minute of it. In my early twenties a good mate blurted out over a few beers that he had been touched up by the trainer back in the day, then another mate said same thing. They must have been 16-17 at the time. One had thrown a punch and the trainer sported a Black eye for a while. One spoke with the older guys in the club who applied their own justice and escorted the trainer out of town.

    That’s what they did back in the day. Move them on, so they could continue their ways at another town. Out of sight out of mind.

  104. Albatross says:

    Well, m0nty has beclowned himself again. He just can’t help it.

  105. Albatross says:

    Take some time to think about how the left conducts these sanctimonious purges at an institutional level, and ponder why that might be…

  106. Iain Russell says:

    No role for the police in this??

  107. Dot says:

    Police AND parents.

    Sure, the offender is responsible for the crime.

    What happened if it was complained about at all?

    You can’t sue the cops and you really can’t sue your parents. The AFL becomes respondeat superior.

  108. Dot says:

    …plus the offenders are likely dead, too late to sue estates…

  109. jupes says:

    Russell’s specialty appears to be telling the victims’ stories, which is the necessary first step but not the last.

    Isn’t that Louise Milligan’s specialty too? I can’t help but feel skeptical when an ABC journalist uses pedo ‘victims’ as a means of bashing an institution. While there is no doubt that Rod Owen was let down as a child by the St Kilda Football Club – a harrowing tale indeed – as an adult, he has to take responsibility for his own actions.

    He certainly wasn’t the victim when he …

    …attacked his defenceless boss, Burgess, without provocation, and “just kept on hitting him”, until Burgess’s head resembled a flattened basketball, his nose and upper jaw broken so badly that his face had to be surgically reconstructed with microplates and titanium screws.

    I also note that while the article is long on some detail, there are gaps in the story that ask more questions than they answer. For example we learn he has an unnamed Aboriginal son but are told nothing else about him or his mother. Why not?

    Happily Rod eventually got himself into rehab and sorted himself out. Too bad for Lindsay Burgess he didn’t do that years earlier.

  110. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    A 13 year old girl was abused by a professional footballer & Vicpol/Security in front thousands of people, live on tv at the MCG

    At which point I stopped following the ALPFL. That disgusting incident was a staggering new subterranean low at the time.

  111. dover_beach says:

    If the practice of demanding resignations resulted in reoffending at other schools, then yes the institution was to blame. I don’t know how prevalent that was.

    I think there is a difference in what the Church did, as they directly enabled further offending with directives from the highest regional levels.

    I think Bear deals with the latter point but re your first, why does ‘the institution’ only bare the blame if s/he reoffends at an affiliated school/ parish? Surely the morally relevant fact is the pattern of behaviour that has gone unpunished irrespective of who or where the victim was unjustly treated because they failed to bring it to the attention of the law.

  112. Boambee John says:

    One of the things that came out in the Royal Commission was how many reports were made to police, and quietly buried. IIRC, in one of the (Ballarat??) cases, the son of a local police officer was a victim, but no action. Why were the police not under the RC’s gun?

  113. Dot says:

    Why were the police not under the RC’s gun?

    I think it is because the police are considered not to have a general duty of care, only a specific one if they endanger you.

    There is no one to claim damages from.

  114. m0nty says:

    I think Bear deals with the latter point but re your first, why does ‘the institution’ only bare the blame if s/he reoffends at an affiliated school/ parish? Surely the morally relevant fact is the pattern of behaviour that has gone unpunished irrespective of who or where the victim was unjustly treated because they failed to bring it to the attention of the law.

    You can’t blame the institution in the first instance for offences by its members per se. Darrel Ray was quite a good coach from all reports, St Kilda weren’t to know that he was a rock spider as well when they hired him. You can blame the institution for making a wrong or late response when it finds out about offences by its members.

    Eleven years is a long time for Ray and Briggs to be offending and getting away with it. If the club hierarchy knew about his predilections but kept him on after wet-lettuce rebukes, that’s on their heads.

  115. dover_beach says:

    You can’t blame the institution in the first instance for offences by its members per se. Darrel Ray was quite a good coach from all reports, St Kilda weren’t to know that he was a rock spider as well when they hired him. You can blame the institution for making a wrong or late response when it finds out about offences by its members.

    That is what I said. But you can also blame them for failing to bring an offence to the attention of the law and simply ask so and so to pack his desk.

  116. Albatross says:

    Nice one everyone falling for mUnt’s neo-Marxist historicism. He doesn’t give a fig about children being abused. He and his ilk just want to break down any and all institutions they don’t yet control completely. By all means: keep falling for it.

  117. m0nty says:

    That is what I said. But you can also blame them for failing to bring an offence to the attention of the law and simply ask so and so to pack his desk.

    Yep, that part of the history has yet to be reported. I hope some of the older footy journos step up.

  118. Albatross says:

    By the way, maybe the reason people were moved on from institutions is that unsubstantiated allegations weren’t considered sufficient proof of a matter, and private institutions didn’t see themselves as instruments of state power and enforcement.

    Luckily, we civilised folk have cast off the shackles of our shameful Common Law past. Now each and every organisation larger than your local milk-bar aggressively enforces State orthodoxy, and a bare accusation is considered sufficient to ruin a man’s life.

    Thanks TrueCons(tm)! Another one conserved!

  119. Albatross says:

    Yep, that part of the history has yet to be reported.

    More like re-written by imbecilic flogs.

  120. Arky says:

    The question is, where has it moved to now?
    The increasing atomisation of the family makes it almost certain that there is more of it around today.
    Bad enough in the 1970s and 1980s dodging these dirty perves, I wonder what hell is happening now.
    Where is it hiding today?
    Good on Monty for tackling a tough subject.

  121. Arky says:

    Good on Monty for tackling a tough subject.

    ..
    I hope you have noticed that your knee jerk tribalism over almost everything else and years of moronic trolling has made it difficult for you to gain traction here with a serious and quite good post.

  122. jupes says:

    The question is, where has it moved to now?

    Safe schools, gay mardi-gras, trannies reading to kids.

    The left are only against homo pedos when they can used to take down a conservative institution. Otherwise they are cool with them.

  123. Albatross says:

    jupes says:
    June 8, 2021 at 2:24 pm
    The question is, where has it moved to now?

    Safe schools, gay mardi-gras, trannies reading to kids.

    The left are only against homo pedos when they can used to take down a conservative institution. Otherwise they are cool with them.

    Fucking exactly.

  124. Lee says:

    The question is, where has it moved to now?

    Safe schools, gay mardi-gras, trannies reading to kids.

    Not that many years ago all that (particularly your first and last example) would have been regarded as “grooming,” “recruiting,” and absolutely unconscionable.

  125. m0nty says:

    The question is, where has it moved to now?
    The increasing atomisation of the family makes it almost certain that there is more of it around today.
    Bad enough in the 1970s and 1980s dodging these dirty perves, I wonder what hell is happening now.
    Where is it hiding today?

    Crimes of just about all kinds have dropped in the last thirty years. No one can say definitively exactly why that is, there are theories but of course you can’t prove anything.

    It does tend to correlate with the rise of the Web, and the Internet in general, not to mention smart phones in recent years. Giving bored people something to do at all times must have had some effect. There are many other factors, I am sure. Others reckon it is a rise of levels of education. It is also correlated with lead being removed from drinking water, though that effect is impossible to quantify.

    I think community groups and institutions have gotten a lot better at screening employees too.

  126. Ed Case says:

    People learned the hard way
    Childrens extracurricular Sport as a stand alone institution only became a big thing in the 50s.
    Prior to that, Social Clubs were very popular, everyone knew each other, so the opportunity for perverts wasn’t there.
    What is the history of the AFLs Little League?
    Appears it only started in the 1970s, but what was the purpose?
    Who made the decision to go with it?

  127. Albatross says:

    It does tend to correlate with the rise of the Web, and the Internet in general, not to mention smart phones in recent years.

    Brain-dead take from Fatboy.

  128. rickw says:

    Nice one everyone falling for mUnt’s neo-Marxist historicism. He doesn’t give a fig about children being abused. He and his ilk just want to break down any and all institutions they don’t yet control completely. By all means: keep falling for it.

    That’s it, the objective is endless destruction of everything until no two stones sit atop each other.

  129. Makka says:

    Very hard to take mOron’s deep outrage! seriously after his rabid commentary earlier and now concerning his vilification of Pell. Especially when as a leftist he obviously supports the form of child abuse known as transgenderism.

    This is mOron’s form; go after something (nothing?) from 50 + years ago but remain absolutely silent with his leftard comrades about kiddie sniffer and groper Biden in the WH.

  130. Arky says:

    m0nty says:
    June 8, 2021 at 5:25 pm
    “The question is, where has it moved to now?”
    ..
    Crimes of just about all kinds have dropped in the last thirty years.

    ..
    Stupid me.
    And just like that, Monty’s concern about the violation of children just… disappeared.

  131. Figures says:

    Monty supports aborting every baby.

    Monty supports taking 5 year olds to drag queen strip shows.

    Monty supports genital (and every other body part) mutilation of every girl who likes sport and every boy who likes dancing.

    Monty supports children being raised by parents who continuously hold heterosexual and homosexual orgies in their houses.

    Monty supports 50 year old men using girls’ bathrooms at schools.

    Monty idolised the likes of Chairman Mao and couldn’t care less about his predilection for young girls.

    And yet here Monty is claiming he is against child abuse.

    Anything Monty says is an attack on logic, common sense, morality, civilisation and the family. He pretends to care about things like the welfare of children or women or the poor *only* inasmuch as he can use them as ammunition against civilisation and the family.

    He is a monster. Never ever forget that communists are pure unadulterated evil.

  132. Old Lefty says:

    It’s nice to have a bit of flattery but it wasn’t really my work in exposing abuse and cover-ups in the state school systems.

    That honour goes first to Justice Wood and the royal commission into the NSW police service in the 90s: see volume 4 of their report, which among other things documents, on a random sample of departmental files, over 200 cases of fiddler’s being allowed to resign with favourable references.

    Also on NSW, there is Hedley Thomas and his Teacher’s Pet series which a police strike force is now following up. My friends in Newcastle remember well the Peter Boys scandal.

    The Tasmanian government inquiry into its own institutions is public knowledge: by some miracle, even the ABC is reporting. Bill Darcy and Keith Wright in Queensland also got a lot of publicity at the time, though as with Boys, the ABC and Nine/Fairfax have done their level best to bury it.

  133. Dot says:

    That honour goes first to Justice Wood and the royal commission into the NSW police service in the 90s: see volume 4 of their report, which among other things documents, on a random sample of departmental files, over 200 cases of fiddler’s being allowed to resign with favourable references.

    Really? 200 NSW cops?

    They put Kenan Basic away for helping fix a woman’s car.

  134. Old Lefty says:

    Meanwhile, normal service has resumed at the ABC: taxpayer-funded advertising for Slater and Gordon (aka Slugs and Grubs in Melbourne legal circles) in which only the Catholic Church ever commits abuse:

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-09/garden-point-sexual-abuse-survivors-get-justice/100201550

    Notice how Aboriginal groups are now making abuse allegations against the Victorian police? Let’s see how far that gets.

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