Idiots led by idiots

I was going to put this up the other day about the Canadian province of Manitoba as a likely warning about what is going to happen here, next:

Premier Brian Pallister said vaccines are no longer the No. 1 limiting factor in battling the pandemic. Now that nearly 70% of Manitobans have been vaccinated, the largest challenge is convincing the other 30% to get vaccinated, he explained.

“Epidemiologists call this vaccine hesitancy, and there are various reasons for it,” he said. “It could include your physical location, where you are. It might be a mobility issue. It might be a language barrier. It might be cultural or religious concerns. We have to get past the 70% vaccination mark. We must get to 75%, then to 80% and 85% and higher. Those numbers are achievable and necessary so we can get our freedoms back.

It might also be that the “vaccine” might create more medical problems than it cures. But Australia has as many fools in high places as everyone else. This from the local rag this morning, in full hysterics mode: The jabs and jab nots.

Vaccine pass could open door to travel

AUSTRALIANS who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 will receive a certificate, paving the way for governments and businesses to enforce tough rules on those who are not inoculated.

The certificate will be available securely through the Medicare app – and eventually added to digital wallets on mobile devices – as the federal government pushes ahead with the plan to help incentivise Australians to get the jab.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison wants fully-vaccinated Australians to be able to bypass state travel restrictions, although the national cabinet is yet to agree, while businesses could seek to use the certificate to withhold services from those who refuse the vaccine.

The Herald Sun understands some federal Liberal MPs are concerned about any government push for Australians to require a vaccine certificate to travel freely.

Opposition government services spokesman Bill Shorten said: “Australians deserve to know when there will be a vaccine certificate system and exactly what they will be used for.”

The certificate will feature a holographic Australian coat of arms, animated green tick and real-time digital clock, along with a unique document number and the personal details of the vaccine recipient, making it impossible to fraudulently reproduce.

Government Services Minister Linda Reynolds said the new record made it “easy” for people to show their Covid-19 vaccination status.

“The Covid-19 digital certificate makes proof of vaccination accessible anytime, anywhere,” she said.

“We’re also giving people control over the level of vaccination history they share, as the certificate only shows your Covid-19 vaccination status.”

Linda Reynolds again. What a hopeless fool she has been in everything she has dealt with, and now this as well.

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115 Responses to Idiots led by idiots

  1. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    there are various reasons for it,” he said. “It could include your physical location, where you are. It might be a mobility issue. It might be a language barrier. It might be cultural or religious concerns.

    It might also be that you are not a gullible moron.

  2. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    making it impossible to fraudulently reproduce

    Oh, bollocks.

  3. Fair Shake says:

    What about if they had had the pox. I want to know that people I am travelling with are pox free.

  4. David says:

    Even mort BS

  5. BM says:

    Surely yellow stars stitched to the jackets of the unvaccinated would be a cheaper and simpler option?

    Tried and tested solution too.

  6. David says:

    EVEN MORE B S

  7. cuckoo says:

    The certificate will be available securely through the Medicare app – and eventually added to digital wallets on mobile devices

    Too bad for neanderthals like me who have perfectly good android phones that are too old to upload the new apps, including the gub’mint QR code. Luckily for me, no store that I go into is enforcing the QR checkin.

  8. Mark M says:

    Seeing swampy Joe and his henchmen still wearing masks after getting the jab, an inquisitive person might ask what is purpose of the jab?

    I won’t be taking directions from anyone wearing less than 5 masks at a time, silly virtue signalling 1 masker that you are.

  9. m0nty says:

    Ah yes, the fascism of being vaccinated against a pandemic. Vax privilege! Vax supremacy!

    You lot sound so deranged on this one.

  10. Rabbi Putin says:

    Herald Sun now joins the The Age as overpriced litter-tray lining.

  11. Terry says:

    ‘BM says:
    June 9, 2021 at 9:55 am
    Surely yellow stars stitched to the jackets of the unvaccinated would be a cheaper and simpler option?
    Tried and tested solution too.’

    Nailed it.

    We are sleepwalking to oblivion. Turkeys voting for Christmas.

    Nuremberg2.0 cannot come soon enough.

  12. Chris M says:

    The Dr. Byram Bridle talk appears to have been scrubbed from yootoob overnight but it’s on Bitchute etc, about 8 minutes long, easy to follow info on the latest vaccine research and understanding why the adverse reactions occur.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/g1IfHVKr17Bx/

  13. Figures says:

    Ah yes, the fascism of being vaccinated against a pandemic.

    Well given that coerced medical experiments are *literally* what Nazi scientists were hung for and given that these vaccines are, by definition, experiments and you propose that they be coerced upon us then yes. The word “fascism” is perfectly fine.

    Oh and there’s as much of a pandemic now as there was back in WWII.

  14. Epicurious says:

    Monty says “You lot sound so deranged on this one.”

    Normally I would not bother about a comment like this however Le Mont is an expert in derangement so we should give him full credit here. Perhaps he could ask his local government to name a tor after him, say Mont Derange.

    Covid 1 vaccines killed most of their animal phase subjects so they never were released to humans. This is why there has never been a successful Covid vaccine until now where we only have an FDA emergency use only (not approved) so we will have to wait a few more months to see which politicians/public health figures had the placebo or le mort vaccine. As usual the lawyers will be happy, provided they didn’t have the jab, as they pursue numerous class cases.

  15. Tombell says:

    That oleaginous doc Coatesworth is on prime time tv big time telling us the vax is “ safe” and “ free”. I think he needs to add a ryder. Said with a smirk of course. “And if you don’t have it the government will make your life hell”.

  16. Forester says:

    Opposition government services spokesman Bill Shorten said: “Australians deserve to know when there will be a vaccine certificate system and exactly what they will be used for.”

    We could ask the same question about trade union super funds.

  17. Richard says:

    Well, it looks like I won’t be part of this society anymore. Unless of course I can find a GP that will add me to the register without taking it.

  18. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    the fascism of being vaccinated against a pandemic

    You appalling hypocritical and utterly gullible moron.

    A “pandemic” that has (allegedly) resulted in the death of one person in this stupid, stupid country in the last seven months, you obnoxious hysterical big stupid government fellating dunderhead.

    FFS.

  19. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    Papers please, M0nty. Get used to waiting a decade for the privilege of buying your underpowered electric Trabant, which you can’t charge anyway because the power is only on 3 hours a day.

    When I was a kid I liked to collect stamps. The comics used to have ads for stamp packets, which I would buy from time to time when I had enough pocket money. Inevitably they were chock full of GDR stamps. I had GDR stamps coming out of my ears.

    That was an own goal by the Left, because now I can vividly recall the stupidity of the GDR and the Stazi, as well as the inanity of a shedload of worthless GDR stamps.

  20. duncanm says:

    I’ll take the Utopia approach.

    Let’s do a pilot study. No-one can leave Canberra until they’re vaccinated.

  21. Mark M says:

    Dave’s not here – Cheech & Chong, youtube

    Washington state just added a new incentive for citizens to get vaccinated as it announced that it will temporarily allow certain shops to give away free marijuana joints alongside COVID-19 vaccinations.

    https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/06/08/pot-for-shots-n395228

  22. (Off topic.)

    Still got your stamps, Bruce? My collection stalled the day I got my C64, but it’s still at Mum’s house (as is the C64). I remember the learning process about how those big pretty stamps weren’t actually the interesting or valued ones.

  23. Daily llama says:

    And MAGYAR stamps, Bruce! Lots of worthless commie Hungarian stamps.
    Back on topic- 2 points
    If it’s all such a furphy, why are so many countries freaking about it? Recently Malaysia promoted lockdown, and I don’t see them as a paragon of political liberty. I just can’t see how such a worldwide thing can all be invented. Like the moon landings or 9/11, it’s just too big to be a hoax. How it’s being handled is the nonsense, not the virus, surely?
    The other thing is- I can’t but wonder what happens when covid is no longer news. All news moves on. In a year or so, nobody’s gonna care, and wonder what all the fuss was about. Pollies like Devious Dan and Palachook will romp home in elections, yet again. As long as we don’t end up with the pinkos in power in Canberra…that would be a disaster!

  24. Firsty says:

    Where are all the civil rights lawyers? I saw a post on the cat a while back about the gov’t own valid consent requirements for immunisations…something like ‘must be free of persuasion, coercion and manipulation’.

    The liberals are lost.

  25. Paul says:

    Meanwhile India continues rolling out Ivermectin treatments.
    Deaths to the communist virus are plummeting.
    No one in the lying left wing msm is reporting this.
    An important aspect is no one is dying from this
    poisonous ivermectin
    That the lying expert political class warned us about.

  26. Boambee John says:

    Figures says:
    June 9, 2021 at 10:17 am
    Ah yes, the fascism of being vaccinated against a pandemic.

    Well given that coerced medical experiments are *literally* what Nazi scientists were hung for and given that these vaccines are, by definition, experiments and you propose that they be coerced upon us then yes. The word “fascism” is perfectly fine.

    munty has always been in favour of fascism, he just prefers the less emotive word “socialism”.

  27. mh says:

    You lot sound so deranged on this one.

    It’s your state that is bringing in a mental health tax, mUnty.

  28. Mango Man says:

    Anti-vaxxers can be left to their fate. Maybe we can swap them with citizens in India who want to come home.

  29. Henry says:

    If the world didn’t have small Commonwealth countries, Americans would have to invent them. They say the quiet part out loud long, long before Americans have been conned into the mineshaft. Every time a socialist liar pipes up with “Nobody is coming to X your Y,” there’s always at least one Commonwealth country I can immediately point to and say, “Your comrades already doing it here.”

  30. candy says:

    How could a vaccine “passport” be simply limited to air travel. It would have to extend to public transport, coach travel, government buildings such as Centrelink.
    Schools, the GP, being admitted to hospital, working at an airport, going to concerts. Taxi drivers could insist on viewing it.

    I can’t see how any government would not abuse the power of such a thing once it came into being. Power corrupts.

  31. duncanm says:

    Well given that coerced medical experiments..

    exactly.

    Vaccines have not yet been given TGA approval.. so how can they be mandated?

  32. Iain Russell says:

    Did Linda think of this herself, or is she listening to frank and fearless advisors, the science which is ‘in’ and the ‘experts’?

  33. duncanm says:

    .. just stumbled across an interesting tidbit. I’m quite disgusted by it.

    The TGA is now acting as a vaccine pimp, and these discussions about passports seem to be a direct result of their actions.

    The Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) has implemented arrangements to facilitate the communication of information about approved COVID-19 vaccines. These arrangements permit health professionals, businesses and media outlets to develop their own materials about TGA-approved COVID-19 vaccines. They also permit the offer of a range of rewards to people who have been fully vaccinated under the Government’s COVID-19 vaccination program.

  34. Lee says:

    I bet M0nty believes in the pro-abortion mantra: “my body, my choice.”
    Except when he disagrees with it, as in this case.
    Hypocrite.

  35. gardez bien says:

    You may be interested in news from the UK. People having to return from holidays in Portugal toute suite even if they have been vaccinated. This suggests the vaccines don’t work or guarantee anything?

    Which is it?

    I’ll bet lots of folks getting vaccinated in Australia will find they won’t be able to travel whatever. Reasons.

  36. duncanm says:

    .. and more.

    These arrangements have been enabled by the Therapeutic Goods (Restricted Representations—COVID-19 Vaccines) Permission 2021 made on 4 June 2021. An amendment(link is external) to the Therapeutic Goods Advertising Code (No.2) 2018(link is external)) has also been made to remove the requirement for self-developed advertising to comply with the Code, as the critical requirements have been covered in the above Permission.

  37. billie says:

    does any online news mention how India are using ivermectin suucessfully?

    has anyone tried to find out how many of the “cases” in Victoria are hospitalised, or anything more than positive tests?

    I was ranted at by someone about this yesterday so I asked them politely to tell me how many hospitalised cases there were in Victoria (they were convinced all those “cases” were people in ICUs, probably even on ventilators!)

    after 10 minutes online, they couldn’t tell me and had a very confused look on their face

    hahahaha

  38. Professor Fred Lenin says:

    The un vaccinated should be confined to certain areas and kept apart from the vaccinated , they should be compelled to wear a symbol to identify , a large fluero U ,meaning Unvaccinated or Unclean on their chests and backs only to beremoved when they get the first jab replaced by a symol”one” which will be removed after the second jab ,they will the e allowed to rejoin the vaccinated race. We have to be firm with these disobdient anti vax extreme right wingers ,drag tem from their garages to the vaccination facilities .
    ( ASIO told me they were in garages ,and the ABC so it must be right )

  39. thefrollickingmole says:

    you obnoxious hysterical big stupid government fellating dunderhead.

    Softy.

  40. Terry says:

    ‘…rewards to people who have been fully vaccinated…’
    Leaving aside the Orwellian abuse of language and thought (no, these are not “vaccines”), this is simply another way of saying “penalities to those that choose to retain autonomy over their own health and body”.

    Be on notice Fascists. There WILL be Nuremberg-style trials awaiting you. No amount of memory-holing will protect you from the ramifications of the reckless evil you are attempting to perpetrate on a non-consenting populace. No, means NO!

  41. Kneel says:

    “…how can they be mandated?”

    They will stand on the technicalities – no-one will force you to get the vax, but only those vaxed will be able to use any sort of public transport, visit pubs/clubs, enter gov building etc etc. But you don’t have to have it!
    I can see two things that might happen with that – for GovCo stuff, requiring private information not relevant to the service provided (IIRC, they are not supposed to demand your drivers license offense history to supply you with a pension, eg), and for private discrimination based on health status (if this was a HIV/AIDS thing, what would happen or already has happened?)
    Any legal-eagles care to comment on these?

  42. Roger says:

    has anyone tried to find out how many of the “cases” in Victoria are hospitalised, or anything more than positive tests?

    92 cases, 3 in hospital, 0 in ICU according to Vic Health’s latest figures.

    Of course, you’d be flat out getting the two latter figures from the media and the odds are that the 3 in hospital have comorbidities.

  43. Kneel says:

    “…a vaccine “passport”…”

    Which is required to be attached to the lower intestinal tract just above the rectum, and visually scanned by camera at every entry/exit into GovCo building, including Parliament House(s).
    Unless, of course, you are claiming non-vaxxed status, in which case no inspection required.

    That’s my idea – what say Cats?

  44. duncanm says:

    billie says:
    June 9, 2021 at 11:58 am
    has anyone tried to find out how many of the “cases” in Victoria are hospitalised, or anything more than positive tests?

    See https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/victorian-coronavirus-covid-19-data

    83 active cases.
    3 in hospital
    0 in ICU

  45. duncanm says:

    snap Roger.

  46. duncanm says:

    my body my choice” ?

  47. Boxcar says:

    To those of you who held a shred of hope that India’s adoption Ivermectin would free the world. That’s yesterdays news.
    THINK AGAIN!

  48. Perfidious Albino says:

    I can foresee a raft of discrimination cases heading to the Courts testing the ability of organisations to discriminate on something that is a) not technically mandated by Government, and b) requires you to accept a proven false premise ie: having the vaccination will stop you from catching and spreading the virus.

    At some point all this bullshit political positioning, window dressing and fig-leafing must collide with reality. I’m just hoping we can wait it out.

  49. Kneel says:

    “83 active cases.
    3 in hospital
    0 in ICU”

    Looks like we have managed to avoid overloading hospitals with “cases” then. Phew!
    So what’s the issue?
    Have we not “flattened the curve”?
    Wasn’t that the entire purpose, because once it was here, we had to live with it, right?
    Couldn’t be stopped, and shouldn’t be because we would have to stay “closed” to OS forever, right?
    We had to get “herd immunity”, didn’t we?

  50. billie says:

    thanks Roger, my buddy always starts their information search on twitta then the fcebook, abc, age, smh etc

    anything else is right wing propaganda

  51. Ellen of Tasmania says:

    Too bad for neanderthals like me who have perfectly good android
    phones

    I think that leaves me back in the garden (sadly, after the fall) because I don’t own any mobile phone.

    Surely it’s wrong for the government to put pressure on its citizens to take a jab without any liability if things go wrong?

  52. m0nty says:

    No one is being coerced by the state into having the vaccine. There will be incentives for those who do get vaxed and restrictions for those who don’t.

    This is nudge theory, not fascism. If you think nudge theory is fascism, you’re a dolt.

  53. duncanm says:

    (incentives from the state) & (restrictions by the state) != coercion

    there you have it. The donut theory.

  54. Spurgeon Monkfish III says:

    This is nudge theory, not fascism

    Restricting my freedom of movement within this stupid, stupid country if I refuse to be administered an unnecessary unproven utterly useless toxic chemical cocktail is fascism, you f*cking moron.

  55. duncanm says:

    Btw monty – by definition, “nudge theory” does not include legislation.

    Fail #1 – legislation regarding the TGA has been changed to allow this bullshit.

  56. Scott Osmond says:

    Can’t imagine what else something like this could be used for. Anyone willing to bet that the scum in charge won’t find other uses?

  57. MPH says:

    No one is being coerced by the state into having the vaccine. There will be incentives for those who do get vaxed and restrictions for those who don’t.

    No one is pointing a gun at you to get vaccinated but you will be unable to live the life you were leading if you remain unvaccinated (on pain of civil legal consequences presumably) therefore you aren’t being coerced. Got it.

  58. candy says:

    If there is a vaccine certificate mandated to fly, then how can people visit/wave off a friend/simply work at the airport without being mandated to have a vaccine certificate as well.

    And then travel home by public transport. How can a virus stop at the steps of a plane?

  59. Figures says:

    This is nudge theory, not fascism. If you think nudge theory is fascism, you’re a dolt.

    I think we should “nudge” all left wing people such that if they proffer up their opinions on any issue then they no longer have a job and their kids get taken from them.

    It’s not forced you see. Just nudged.

  60. Baa Humbug says:

    At some point all this bullshit political positioning, window dressing and fig-leafing must collide with reality. I’m just hoping we can wait it out

    .

    That’s what they keep saying about Global Warming Scam. Yet here we are a generation later.
    If people are going to wait for some miracle to stop this Global Reset push, you’ll be waiting to your grave.

    There is only one horrible hope. That millions of vaccinated start dying or being crippled in the coming months. Great public outrage and running street battles is the only way this thing will be paused.

  61. Richard says:

    If this applies to me,
    My body, my choice. . . What’s that? What do you mean ‘No’? Oh, the majority think it should be compulsory? So, I must have the vaccine?

    Then this must apply as well
    My body, my choice. . . What’s that? What do you mean ‘No’? Oh, the majority think it should be compulsory? So I must have the baby?

    Or, you could just leave us the hell alone and look after your own damn selves.

  62. John A says:

    Roger says: June 9, 2021 at 12:19 pm

    has anyone tried to find out how many of the “cases” in Victoria are hospitalised, or anything more than positive tests?

    92 cases, 3 in hospital, 0 in ICU according to Vic Health’s latest figures.

    Of course, you’d be flat out getting the two latter figures from the media and the odds are that the 3 in hospital have comorbidities.

    Well, well! The 1 x ICU case from last week has recovered! Isn’t that remarkably good news?
    As Kneel commented, the curve has been flattened. Gee, they could use that in advertising some weight-loss program, couldn’t they?

  63. Megan says:

    They also permit the offer of a range of rewards to people who have been fully vaccinated under the Government’s COVID-19 vaccination program.

    Clearly no-one in charge has read Alfie Kohn’s great book ‘Punished by Rewards’ which provides plenty of good research evidence that incentives don’t work and are more often counter-productive to the outcome sought.
    Secondly, the natural human impulse for most people when pushed hard physically is to push back. That applies equally to psychological pushing.
    It is one thing to think that the decision makers above us are ignorant dunderheads. It is both galling and depressing to have it confirmed pretty much daily.
    The abysmal consequences of their unpreparedness for a pandemic, real or panic driven, and the failure of what is obviously a flawed decision making process will be the thousands of case studies written by those mediocre academics who got us into this mess in the first place by poorly educating the populace.

  64. Figures says:

    If it’s all such a furphy, why are so many countries freaking about it? Recently Malaysia promoted lockdown, and I don’t see them as a paragon of political liberty. I just can’t see how such a worldwide thing can all be invented. Like the moon landings or 9/11, it’s just too big to be a hoax.

    That’s because you’re stupid and have never heard of history.

    Go and do some reading on something called “World War I”. Or slavery. Or child sacrifice.

    Just because something is believed/accepted by the whole world at some point, doesn’t make it true, moral or a good idea.

    It is called information cascades. Everybody thinks that everybody else is coming to their position based on independent reasoning and so instead of engaging in independent reasoning themselves, they just follow everybody else. Of course, everybody else is doing the exact same thing.

  65. BM says:

    No one is being coerced by the state into having the vaccine. There will be incentives for those who do get vaxed and restrictions for those who don’t.

    This is nudge theory, not fascism. If you think nudge theory is fascism, you’re a dolt.

    – Monty

    Nudge theory is a concept in behavioral economics, political theory, and behavioral sciences[1] that proposes positive reinforcement and indirect suggestions as ways to influence the behavior and decision-making of groups or individuals.

    – Wikipedia

    As usual, m0nty is completely wrong. Applying restrictions, ie punishments, to the non-conforming people means this cannot possibly meet the definition of nudge theory, which relies only on positive reinforcement, not punishment.

    If you think nudge theory involves punishing people for doing the “wrong” thing, you’re a dolt.

  66. John A says:

    Ellen of Tasmania says: June 9, 2021, at 12:37 pm

    Too bad for neanderthals like me who have perfectly good android
    phones

    I think that leaves me back in the garden (sadly, after the fall) because I don’t own any mobile phone.

    Surely it’s wrong for the government to put pressure on its citizens to take a jab without any liability if things go wrong?

    Ellen, see a previous Cat article by Bill M on the legal definition of “informed consent.”

    It was published here last week, or maybe earlier – near the start of the latest Victorian panic.

  67. Megan says:

    92 cases, 3 in hospital, 0 in ICU according to Vic Health’s latest figures.

    And according to the latest TGA figures provided last week there were 9 in hospital with post-vaccine thrombolytic issues. Sounds like we’ve taken a balanced approach to the whole bloody mess. Not.

  68. Delta says:

    Nuremberg 2.o is certainly needed!

    Then there’s this at Gateway pundit – particularly the speech from the Dutch politician. It’s worth watching right through.

  69. dover_beach says:

    No one is being coerced by the state into having the vaccine. There will be incentives for those who do get vaxed and restrictions for those who don’t.

    Coercion includes inducements (i.e. incentives or restrictions) made by A so that B acts in ways B would not voluntarily do so. If a boss says that employee X would certainly get a promotion (incentive) if they do this or that sexual favour they are being coerced. If the state says that we must have the vaccine in order to travel interstate or enter places of business (restriction) then we are being coerced. This is elementary.

  70. Richard says:

    Monty

    Nudge theory is a concept in behavioral economics, political theory, and behavioral sciences that proposes positive reinforcement and indirect suggestions as ways to influence the behavior and decision-making of groups or individuals.

    That sounds like a method I would use to train my border collie. However I’m not a dog, I’m an individual, and unlike some, I do not require babysitting or training. I would sooner see the Government fix the potholes, rather than practice their behavioral science experiments upon my person.

  71. Mango Man says:

    Interesting that people claiming vaccines unproven also claim animal worm cures work for a virus. Suggest such folk are evidencing Darwin theorem.

  72. m0nty says:

    If the state says that we must have the vaccine in order to travel interstate or enter places of business (restriction) then we are being coerced.

    Do you think that current blanket state travel restrictions are fascist, or do they only become fascist when they are dropped for the vaccinated?

    Also, I don’t think it will be the state ordering businesses to apply the restrictions, they will merely be permitting it if businesses choose to make that decision.

  73. Barry says:

    If COVID was dangerous, vaccination would be mandatory (think Ebola).

    Vaccination is not mandatory ergo COVID is not dangerous.

    Simples.

  74. Richard says:

    m0nty says:
    June 9, 2021 at 1:22 pm
    Do you think that current blanket state travel restrictions are fascist, or do they only become fascist when they are dropped for the vaccinated?

    Yes, blanket state travel restrictions are fascist, and yes, they are still fascist when they are dropped for only the vaccinated.

  75. m0nty says:

    Applying restrictions, ie punishments, to the non-conforming people means this cannot possibly meet the definition of nudge theory, which relies only on positive reinforcement, not punishment.

    Currently there are statewide restrictions on travel to and from Victoria. Is that fascism per se?

    If your answer is no, and there is a scenario where that restriction were lifted only for the vaccinated, does that then qualify as fascism?

  76. m0nty says:

    Yes, blanket state travel restrictions are fascist

    Oh dear, Richard. You’re not going to get anywhere with that argument outside the Cat.

  77. Timothy Neilson says:

    This is nudge theory, not fascism. If you think nudge theory is fascism, you’re a dolt.

    I think we should have nudge theory for fat turds to improve their health. Every month each fat turd gets their BMI measured, and if it hasn’t reduced they get flogged to within an inch of their lives. Only when their BMI gets down to acceptable levels does the nudge stop, but they keep having to get BMI checks to prevent backsliding.

    This would save the health system enormous amounts of taxpayers’ money that’s currently being spent on fat turd-related health problems.

    What do you say m0nty? Nothing fascistic about this proposal – it’s just nudge theory.

  78. Daily llama says:

    Sorry Figures, I’m far more widely read about history than you’ll ever be. And if I agreed with you we’d both be wrong!

  79. MACK says:

    The ABC provides the data here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/coronavirus-cases-data-reveals-how-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704
    Apparently two people are hospitalised because they are elderly, as a precautionary measure. The other one is in hospital for other reasons.

  80. BM says:

    m0nty says:
    June 9, 2021 at 1:26 pm
    Applying restrictions, ie punishments, to the non-conforming people means this cannot possibly meet the definition of nudge theory, which relies only on positive reinforcement, not punishment.

    Currently there are statewide restrictions on travel to and from Victoria. Is that fascism per se?

    Yes.

  81. Daily llama says:

    I had to look up nudge theory. Now I get it, it’s about dunnies
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_theory#/media/File:Urinal_FLy2.jpg

  82. Timothy Neilson says:

    Great Babylon Bee article:
    US Republicans say that since voting by mail went so smoothly, there should be vaccination by mail – every American gets sent a loaded syringe and vacc card, so they can self-administer and self-issue the vacc passport to themselves.
    Pity it’s only satire.

  83. rickw says:

    Will be relying on my fake digital wallet.

    Munty will feel better.

    (And if you don’t believe these will be a thing consider how many fake licenses have been issued in Victoria.)

  84. John A says:

    Bruce of Newcastle says: June 9, 2021, at 10:31 am

    Papers please, M0nty. Get used to waiting a decade for the privilege of buying your underpowered electric Trabant, which you can’t charge anyway because the power is only on 3 hours a day.

    When I was a kid I liked to collect stamps. The comics used to have ads for stamp packets, which I would buy from time to time when I had enough pocket money. Inevitably they were chock full of GDR stamps. I had GDR stamps coming out of my ears.

    Ah, some off-topic info here. May I infer that you were (maybe still are) a fan of that arch-enemy of pirates “The Phantom” by Lee Falk, and still published in Australia by Frew Publications?

    That was how I began as a philatelist, only to have my very amateurish collection lost in the passage of time and development of other interests, such as computers, career, family.

  85. Speedbox says:

    candy says:
    June 9, 2021 at 11:44 am
    How could a vaccine “passport” be simply limited to air travel. It would have to extend to public transport, coach travel, government buildings such as Centrelink.
    Schools, the GP, being admitted to hospital, working at an airport, going to concerts. Taxi drivers could insist on viewing it.

    Exactly right Candy. As has been speculated on various Cat threads over the past few months, the ‘vaccine passport’ will morph into a much larger role. Mission creep if you will.

    Governments have enormous power to compel the populace to comply – witness the past year! So, the ‘passport’ will become more of a requirement. It will always be possible to resist but that person’s life will be made more difficult.

    Witness the use of QR codes. In Victoria, those are necessary to enter supermarkets. The authorities justified it for ‘contract tracing’ and whilst the requirement may be briefly removed, it was a test to see what they can get away with.

    Most Australians have been cravenly accepting of vast government over-reach. More, the MSM have been willing enablers and acted as a propaganda arm on the various governments. Dissenting views were silenced.

    And the corralling of the people ain’t over yet.

  86. John A says:

    Speedbox, I have yet to scan a supermarket QR Code.

    I went to my optometrist yesterday and chose to have my name recorded by quill and ink on parchment instead of electrons.

  87. Damon says:

    “the ‘vaccine passport’ will morph into a much larger role”
    Anyone remember the late, unlamented, Australia card?

  88. dover_beach says:

    Do you think that current blanket state travel restrictions are fascist, or do they only become fascist when they are dropped for the vaccinated?

    They are coercive in both instances. I haven’t raised the fascist spectre.

    Also, I don’t think it will be the state ordering businesses to apply the restrictions, they will merely be permitting it if businesses choose to make that decision.

    Then that would still be coercion on the part of the business concerned, and the state would be complicit.

    BTW, I’ve said nothing about coercion being unjustified per se. All I’ve argued is that inducements applied in order to promote a course of action that someone would not otherwise voluntarily undertake amount to coercion. However, I’ve argued elsewhere that the situation with COVID given what we now know presents no justification for coerced vaccinations.

  89. m0nty says:

    Then that would still be coercion on the part of the business concerned, and the state would be complicit.

    Is an RSL requiring shirt and shoes instead of singlet and thongs also coercion?

  90. dover_beach says:

    Justified coercion.

  91. m0nty says:

    So you think requiring citizens to be vaccinated to access certain public or private areas so as to lower their risk of infecting others is not justified?

    How about a surcharge to entry fees to fund the inevitable lawsuits, is that also unjustified coercion? Or are the businesses just left to fend for themselves.

  92. Nighthawk the Elder says:

    I posted on the other fred and called it vaccination apartheid. I could have referred to other appropriate epithets, such a vaccination segregation, or even referenced the social hygiene laws that B rate Austrian painter tried in the 1930’s and 40’s.

  93. Nighthawk the Elder says:

    Vaccination passport. Papiere bitte.

  94. dover_beach says:

    So you think requiring citizens to be vaccinated to access certain public or private areas so as to lower their risk of infecting others is not justified?

    If someone is asymptomatic, there is already a very low risk of A passing on COVID, and those in high risks groups who are vaccinated are largely protected from COVID. So, yes, very little justification for coerced vaccinations.

    How about a surcharge to entry fees to fund the inevitable lawsuits, is that also unjustified coercion? Or are the businesses just left to fend for themselves.

    What inevitable lawsuits? Hardly anyone is going to attract COVID in these encounters, if they are worried about them they should already be vaccinated and receive that added protection, and there are treatments available that can adequately deal with COVID if contracted anyway.

  95. MatrixTransform says:

    Currently there are statewide restrictions on travel to and from Victoria. Is that fascism per se?

    mUnty
    you are the living embodiment of the Appeal to Incredulity.

    only a retard (as in the opposite of progressive) could try to make that fly

    and only a retard (as in the stupid) would honestly believe it as they spoke it.

    you are both kinds of retard.

    … but then most retards are

  96. m0nty says:

    What inevitable lawsuits? Hardly anyone is going to attract COVID in these encounters, if they are worried about them they should already be vaccinated and receive that added protection, and there are treatments available that can adequately deal with COVID if contracted anyway.

    That is not how the law works, db. Businesses have a duty of care to their customers. I imagine the insurance would go through the roof if they didn’t apply restrictions.

    You might think that COVID is just a bad cold, but you (apart from being very, very, very wrong) are in a small minority. Consumers won’t regain full confidence unless they think that public areas are relatively safe from a global pandemic.

    Part of government’s role, even in limited libertarian scenarios, is to provide the baseline safety for the community to enable the market. If everyone stays home from the market because they’re afraid of the coof, you don’t have much of a market.

    Defence of the realm is not just military. Defending the populace against pandemics is also a part of that. You may chafe, but government has to play a big role in such situations. You can whinge all you like, but society isn’t listening to you.

  97. MatrixTransform says:

    I hope you dont live in an apartment mUnty.
    try turning my business off and then see if you’re still getting hot or cold water

    as usual you dumb fucks can’t see past the next gibbering statement about all the things you know about how things really work.

    retards

  98. Terry says:

    only a retard (as in the opposite of progressive)’
    FIFY.

  99. Timothy Neilson says:

    Consumers won’t regain full confidence unless they think that public areas are relatively safe from a global pandemic.

    Is there any evidence of such an effect having happened in jurisdictions which haven’t done lockdowns?
    Or those which have oscillated between lockdown and opening?

  100. dover_beach says:

    I’ve never argued that COVID is just a bad cold, but the rates of death for the majority of the population are below 0.1%, there is now a range of vaccines freely available to all in time that wants to avail themselves of this, there is an alternative method of prophylaxis available to others, and there are available treatments that successfully treat COVID if contracted. There is simply no ‘defence of the realm’ argument to be made given the above, and no justification for businesses being liable for people engaging in social intercourse, and no reason at all for people to stay at home anymore.

  101. Megan says:

    Interesting that people claiming vaccines unproven also claim animal worm cures work for a virus. Suggest such folk are evidencing Darwin theorem.

    So much stupid wrongolgy in this nonsense, it’s approaching the level of a complete cretin. Thanks again, teachers and educators for failing to teach your students clear thinking, logic and effective argument.

  102. Infidel Tiger King says:

    Consumers won’t regain full confidence unless they think that public areas are relatively safe from a global pandemic.

    Florida is absolutely booming since De Santis stopped the madness dead.

  103. MatrixTransform says:

    what I don’t get about you mUnty is how you seem to believe that you’re completely justified.

    you’re basically issuing threats to punitively deal with people who won’t comply with whatever gibber you just thunk next.

    personally I think the solution to all these idiotic long winded rhetorical gibber-fests in some moronic attempt to sway public opinion, are a complete waste of time.

    threaten me
    threaten my business
    then by extension you are threatening my family

    and you can fuck yourself

    … you reckon I’m alone in my resolve?

    lol.

    you silly prick

    my proposal is to host all further discussions in a sort of recreated 1980’s style country pub bar type situation.

    all the old old rules apply. like keep yrself nice you arrogant prick
    and, take your fucking hat off.

    and how about we go outside and you say that shit again smart-arse?

  104. Boambee John says:

    m0nty says:
    June 9, 2021 at 12:45 pm
    No one is being coerced by the state into having the vaccine. There will be incentives for those who do get vaxed and restrictions for those who don’t.

    This is nudge theory, not fascism. If you think nudge theory is fascism, you’re a dolt.

    The fat fascist fool munty producing ever more convoluted explanations as to why “nudging” people to have an unproven “vaccine” is not dividing the nation between the approved and the unapproved “citizens”, and is not a clear step along the path to the fascism he desires so much (with munty in the Reinhardt Heydrich role).

  105. Terry says:

    ‘Defence of the realm is not just military. Defending the populace against pandemics is also a part of that.’

    We have always been at war with Eurasia Eastasia.

  106. Boambee John says:

    Also, I don’t think it will be the state ordering businesses to apply the restrictions, they will merely be permitting it if businesses choose to make that decision.

    Business cooperating with the state to achieve mutually beneficial objectives. Now where has that ever happened before? Oh, yes. Nazi Germany and fascist Italy.

    munty again treads on his dick (he musty have very short legs to do this). Then he grinds it into the concrete floor with hobnailed boots.

  107. Timothy Neilson says:

    MatrixTransform says:
    June 9, 2021 at 6:11 pm
    Boambee John says:
    June 9, 2021 at 6:13 pm

    m0nty’s whole schtick on this comes from his view on how his own Chicom virus risks should best be reduced.
    The two competing strategies are:
    (a) m0nty lays off the doughnuts and gets on the exercise bike to reduce his co-morbidity factors;
    (b) the other 25,791,299 inhabitants of Australia are deprived of their civil liberties and basic human rights to reduce (however marginally) the risk that m0nty might catch the virus from one of them.
    m0nty favours (b), but most others on this blog favour (a). It’s not a matter of facts, logic etc., it’s just a fundamental difference in pre-rational motives.

  108. rickw says:

    m0nty’s whole schtick on this comes from his view on how his own Chicom virus risks should best be reduced.
    The two competing strategies are:
    (a) m0nty lays off the doughnuts and gets on the exercise bike to reduce his co-morbidity factors;
    (b) the other 25,791,299 inhabitants of Australia are deprived of their civil liberties and basic human rights to reduce (however marginally) the risk that m0nty might catch the virus from one of them.
    m0nty favours (b), but most others on this blog favour (a). It’s not a matter of facts, logic etc., it’s just a fundamental difference in pre-rational motives.

    Accurate.

  109. Boambee John says:

    Is an RSL requiring shirt and shoes instead of singlet and thongs also coercion?

    It’s good manners you fascist fool. Something which seems utterly alien to you.

    Your case becomes ever more ludicrous with your every attempt to strengthen it.

  110. Alan says:

    “… entry fees to fund the inevitable lawsuits?”
    We are nearly 2 years into this … where are the inevitable lawsuits?
    We have Limitation of Actions Acts in all States and Cth. Personal injury = 3 years.
    Where are the inevitable lawsuits?

    BTW: There are a whole bunch of theories about dealing with trolls. The most well-known being that you shouldn’t feed the trolls.
    So why did the Catallaxy chiefs give this one the platform with spotlights?

  111. MatrixTransform says:

    all of a sudden it dawns me that mUnty may not like rhetorical constructions all that much

    see, in the first wordy construction the retard appeals to higher authority
    one where other people, not him, can enforce his idiot ideals.
    no responsibility or accountability.

    in the second wordy construction, the smart arse will find itself accountable whether it wants to be or not.

    it’s a subtle difference that many retards don’t get

    but we do apparently, agree that percussive re-inforcement can be a force for good

    when used appropriately

  112. Kneel says:

    “Is an RSL requiring shirt and shoes instead of singlet and thongs also coercion?”

    You can remove the shirt and shoes after you have left – you can’t remove the vax.

    Is GovCo (or your insurance provider) requiring you to perform a certain minimum amount of exercise a day (and have a certificate to prove it) or lose your health care coercion? After all, that would also help prevent deaths and also reduce hospital “load”.

    Apples and bananas, right?
    Just so…

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