The Bilo family situation

OBSTINATE autism is not national security. Like most, I’ve paid only occasional attention to the predicament of the Murugappan family – Nades, Priya and their daughters, Tharnicaa, 4, and Kopika, 6 – since the exhaustion of their legal claims. The highest courts in the land have found unambiguously that the couple are not entitled to asylum and cannot stay in Australia. The August 2019 mid-air injunction that stopped their deportation and landed them in Darwin became a phase-two tilt at securing a return to Biloela. What the Federal Court wouldn’t allow – permanent residency – the family’s supporters hoped to win via political lobbying. The new dilemma – Tharnicaa’s medical evacuation from Christmas Island to Perth earlier this month – makes the case impossible for the Federal government to administratively shoo.

After seven years, it’s time for the government to call it a day and let them stay.

No, they’re not genuine refugees and, yes, leap-frogging the law-abiding was no trivial offence. But I do think they’re genuine human beings with two genuine Australian children. Tharnicaa and Kopika are not Sri Lankans and shouldn’t be punished for what their parents did. They are clearly well-regarded in a CQ town that isn’t exactly fighting off newcomers.

To the classic sovereign borders argument made today in Parliament by Michael McCormack (and by others many times before), there is no respectable rebuttal. You only have to look at how quickly America’s southern border has once again become a chaotic turnstile under Joe Biden to know that. But reality is messy. A great country should forgive and make prudent exceptions. The behaviour of our governments over the past year has threatened my liberty more than the Murugappans ever will.

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147 Responses to The Bilo family situation

  1. FlyingPigs says:

    DREAMERS, Anchor Babies.. here we come.

    The scum who let the individuals in whom subsequently became parents need to pay for everything.

    what a laugh.

  2. Bela Bartok says:

    Bullshit.
    Send them back. Full stop.

  3. C.L. says:

    Sending the daughters “back”?
    They’re as Australian as Bindi Irwin.

  4. Infidel Tiger says:

    Deport the parents. Adopt the kids out.

    That will be a good lesson for all.

  5. Bazinga says:

    The only fair (and Solomonesque) thing to do is deport the parents and allow the kids to stay as wards of the government, with the allowance that the parents can opt to take the kids with them.

  6. Chris M says:

    Our quota of Tamil Tiger fighters is already full unfortunately.

  7. Bela Bartok says:

    No CL they aren’t Australian.
    They’re as much Australian as if a group of burglars broke into your house, the pregnant one gave birth, and then insisted the baby was your family.
    Send them back. The ‘agony’ of waiting is their draw card.
    Send them all back within 10 days. Job done.

  8. Primer says:

    Now ask these asylum seekers, who fled Sri Lanka in fear of their lives, if they have returned to Sri Lanka from Australia as tourists and how many times that happened, the fear having apparently disappeared.

  9. Leigh Lowe says:

    The best thing is that politicians, journalists and sundry other commentators can garner street cred by using the abbreviation “Bilo”.
    Clothing themselves in the familiarity of a local.
    A virtual Akubra and RM moleskins.

  10. 2dogs says:

    They are clearly well-regarded in a CQ town

    This is for show, CL. I have abridge to sell you, if you are interested.

  11. Procrustes says:

    Good post, CL

  12. C.L. says:

    LL, everyone in Queensland calls Biloela Bilo.

    More rationality than “compassion,” hanlover.

    This family isn’t going to cause the country to be overwhelmed. That’s Brett Sutton logic. You manage events as they unfold; that’s the best you can do.

  13. Rossini says:

    Cut the sympathy crap.
    Send them back
    With the bill for all the costs born by the Australian tax payer
    Piss them off

  14. Nob says:

    I thought it meant they ran a Bi-Lo supermarket.

  15. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    I had this over there, not knowing this was over here. So now I will copy it from there to here. 🤣

    “1 out of every 4 Biloelaians vote One Nation, the rest hard right National. The conjured fantasy that they’re pining for these queue jumping system scheming crypto curry muncher fake refugees to come back to their town is the stupidest thing in this entire affair.”

    These following statistics tell me Biloela is classic Queensland mining country, very similar to the Upper Hunter Valley in NSW, conservative white Anglo Saxon with a strong income base from several high employer businesses – mostly people who are happy to be away from the cities but earning a good income, in a good environment to raise children; with a low proportion of hobos.

    Biloela 2016 Census (comparisons are to QLD State)
    Summary
    High proportion younger than 40; lower than average tertiary educated; very high Australian born; low overseas heritage; high Christian; high full time work, low part time work; high median weekly income (Callide Mine, power station & abattoir); high family with children, low single parent family.
    Population
    5,800 people
    1,400 families
    2,600 houses
    Age
    Under 20 30% (26% QLD)
    Range 20-29 13% (same as QLD)
    Range 30-39 16% (13%)
    Range 40-49 13% (14%)
    Range 50-59 12% (13%)
    Over 60 15% (21%)
    Tertiary educated 38% (45% QLD)
    Heritage
    Most common ancestries Australian 34%, English 26%, Irish 7%, German 6% and Scottish 6%
    Born in Australia 78%, NZ 2%, Philippines 2%, Vietnam 1.6%
    Religion
    Catholic 26% Anglican 18%, (QLD 22%, 15%)
    Aborigine 4.3% (4% QLD)
    Political
    State (Callide) National or Liberal past 70 years, 2020 Election 66% 2PP
    Liberal-National 57%, Labor 26%
    Federal (Flynn) Liberal-National past 11 years, 2019 Election 59% 2PP
    Liberal-National 38%, Labor 29% One Nation 20%

    My guess (based on some years in and out of the similar Muswellbrook/Scone location) is that it is unlikely illegals will have universal support from the population, which is largely Australian born families getting on with a reasonably comfortable life. Vietnamese and Filipinos aren’t particularly friendly towards sub-continentals.

    There is more likely a noisy smaller group behind the Sri Lankans. It is, of course, in their interest to exaggerate the campaign numbers.

  16. Rosie says:

    I think the last virgil in bilo for the family attracted 20 people.

    They’ve been on Christmas Island since 2018.

    I still think a return with a reapplication through proper channels would be the correct thing.

    All those ardent supporters would be happy to chip in for sponsorship and a hand with living expenses.

  17. Rosie says:

    Maybe that is the out.

    They can stay if private sponsors guarantee them for five years.

    And no holidays home to Sri Lanka in that five year period.

    I think the poms have a rule that protection visas get nullified if you go home for a holiday.

  18. Neil says:

    Just another problem Labor had created. In 2007 our detention centers were empty. In 2008 Rudd abolished Howards Pacific Solution and let in 50,000 boat people from 2008-2013 costing us $15B and counting.

    Send the bill to the ALP

  19. Mr Johnson says:

    The most fervent lovers of the Bilo family are the media – especially when there’s a conservative gov in power..

  20. Diogenes says:

    No, the girls are NOT Australian. Children inherit their parent’s visa status, so that makes them illegal immigrants just like mum and dad. Put them on a plane.

  21. AC says:

    Yet the father went back to Sri Lanka three times while on a bridging visa – he was “fleeing persecution”

    Send them back and let them apply like everyone else – enough of the sob stories!!

  22. Mr Johnson says:

    I noticed Albo out snarling about the heartless government. I think he should be asked whether he would run on the policy of letting illegals out of detention next election. Bye bye Albo.

  23. Ed Case says:

    It’s Bill-oh.
    A bastard of a place, the water is full of Alum, you need to be close to a dunny the first 6 weeks there.
    Anyway, Nads says they’re happy to stay on Christmas Island, so he’s never going back to Bilo, whatever the outcome.

  24. Mr Johnson says:

    * Media shows pics of children in detention.
    * Government provides act of compassion.
    * People smugglers package and sell open borders to Australia.
    * Illegal immigration influx.
    * Little brown bodies floating in the sea.
    * Illegal immigration crackdown.
    * Illegal immigration stops/slows.
    * Media shows pics of children in detention.
    (you are here)
    * Government provides act of compassion.
    * People smugglers package and sell open borders to Australia.
    * Illegal immigration influx.
    * Little brown bodies floating in the sea.
    * etc etc, and etc

  25. Bad Samaritan says:

    Not sure re why CL’s doing it, but the fallacies in this piss-poor effort are so many and so obvious that I’m guessing it’s a kinda very weak tongue-in-cheek dad-joke which looked kinda funny after a coupla drinkies late last night.

    Am I right?

  26. Perplexed of Brisbane says:

    Maybe the locals call it Bilo. I’ve never heard it called that, especially as we rarely hear about the place except for this issue and when it has a really hot day and makes the tv weather report.

    Since the civil war ended about 20+ ? years ago and our cricket team has been there several times since and Sri Lanka is touted as a tourist destination, how can there be grounds for asylum?

    I like the idea of pro bono lawyers being liable for costs if they lose, especially in cases that involve the otherwise bottomless pit of OPM.

  27. calli says:

    Speaking of “Bilo”, just watched a cross to a demmo there.

    Now, we know Aussies will show up for the opening of an envelope. If TV is included, expect more, with the pre-requisite breakfast sausage sizzle. Double it for rural Aussies.

    I counted 15 people, some holding signs. Fifteen.

    Please don’t tell me Bilo is overwhelmingly supportive. It’s a demonstrated lie.

  28. Nebia Hill says:

    Send the queue jumping lawyer enrichers – $7,000,000 of taxpayer’s monies so far and climbing – back posthaste.

  29. jupes says:

    Send the queue jumping lawyer enrichers – $7,000,000 of taxpayer’s monies so far and climbing – back posthaste.

    This. The fact that this farce has taken seven years is an indictment on our self-serving legal system.

    The process from illegal entry to deportation should be immediate for the vast majority of cases. For the few that deserve another look, they get one chance before the beak. One. Then they can fuck off.

  30. calli says:

    We need a Compassion-o-Meter to measure our feelz on this subject.*

    Low-Moderate-High-Extreme-Catastrophic

    Where are you on the scale? Register your vast quantities of compassion by emoting strongly and shifting the needle! Prizes include medals, trophies, ribbons all to be displayed in the trophy cabinet in the “good” room.

    Roll up! Roll up!

    *no need to give money or time to worthy causes, particularly overseas where no one sees nor cares. This is your time to shine!

  31. Mother Lode says:

    If the parents had opted to move back to Sri Lanka we would not dream of keeping the kids here because they were born here on grounds of the difficult transition.

    Their parents were told what would happen. They had no business trying to get around it. They must surely have been aware that there was a substantial chance of their play not working and that they would be taking their kids back to Sri Lanka with them. They had no right to think otherwise.

    We always hear about how evil it is to separate children from their parents. Lets not. But when did it morph into ‘You must keep kids with their parents – in whatever country they want, regardless of any other matter’?

  32. Major Elvis Newton says:

    Using the same let ‘em stay rationale we should’ve extended the same courtesy to another illegal queue jumper: Behrouz Boochani

    Or not.

  33. Dot says:

    What a ridiculous situation. They could have come here legally with no problem.

    The children may have more rights than I do (as Australians). I was born here, Mum was born here and Dad was an English boy who was naturalised.

  34. garry b says:

    I just turned Alan Jones off last night-Foxtel is worsening. He rants about this and he exaggerates about Acland mine. Enforce the court decisions with the immediacy you would hope for, if you employed a tradesman for work at your home. Make the proponents of lawfare pay the costs of their misuse of courts established for the use of/by genuine Aussies. Damn the media!

  35. cuckoo says:

    Much as I loathe the emotional circus manufactured around them by millionaire media lizards and politicians, I have to agree with you C.L.

    And though the family seem perfectly nice people, I don’t doubt that within twelve months of achieving permanent residency, they will be on a plane back to Sri Lanka for family/religious reasons.

  36. Perfidious Albino says:

    You can just bet the advocates are trying to delay things until the next election where they hope for a more ‘compassionate’ Government. If the Libs had any ticker they would be putting the question to Albo and the rest of them now and force them to nail their colours to the mast.

  37. Craig Mc says:

    Strap them to a rocket and fire them back to Sri Lanka.

  38. shady says:

    The government makes the exception with this and the activists use it as a precedent for how many more?

  39. Roger says:

    My heart says let them stay but my head says rule of law must apply.

  40. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “Roger says:
    June 16, 2021 at 8:44 am
    My heart says let them stay but my head says rule of law must apply.”

    That’s how I feel.

  41. candy says:

    Up until just a little while ago I agreed with C.L. But seeing the stories regarding the little girl having undiagnosed septicemia and also pneumonia,
    I simply don’t believe she was suffering so shockingly with no medical care at Christmas Island and at death’s door. In fact, she would have died if what they say is true.

    Lawyers and activists noticed the compassion ordinary people have for the family and are exploiting it the hilt. It’s no good. This sort of thing grows and we will soon have uncontrolled immigration again.

    Folks waiting legally to come here also have little children.

  42. Rosie says:

    Monty, your hot takes are really awful.

    And I bet you war game them before posting.

  43. Roger says:

    Tharnicaa and Kopika are not Sri Lankans and shouldn’t be punished for what their parents did.

    That’s a nice sentiment, CL, but two things to note:

    Nobody is punishing them, although I do believe tghe government’s handling of the family’s situation has been unnecessarily harsh. They didn’t need to be detained whilst their case was heard.

    Children do suffer the consequences of their parents poor decisions. That is a fact of life. Thankfully, most children are resilient and adapt or work their way through as best they can as they grow older.

  44. Dot says:

    Somewhere in Israel, 32 AD: guy in crowd with rocks in his hands: “My heart says give her a chance. She’s probably got a kid at home. But rule of law is rule of law.”

    Can you make resources appear out of nothing?

    Then shut up, Kong Fe Sze.

  45. Rosie says:

    And you don’t need to rush back to ad 32 for a stoning for ‘adultery.

    Still common in parts of the ME.

    They like to partially bury them first.

    Still musing on living in Sri Lanka is like being stoned to death for adultery.

  46. Dot says:

    Jesus H Christ

    I am not against abortion in all circumstances but does the BBC *really* need to run some “gritty drama” anti Irish, anti Catholic crap about terminations?

    What does Australia run at? 130,000 abortions a year?

    What, they’re all totally necessary, or all victims of sexist assault?

    Come off it.

  47. Dot says:

    Whoops

    Wrong thread…

  48. Rex Mango says:

    Sepsis is v rare & dangerous disease. Is it not passing strange that having exhausted every possible legal avenue, the medical profession steps in to diagnose something like this?

  49. Nebia Hill says:

    Send the queue jumping lawyer enrichers – $7,000,000 of taxpayer’s monies so far and climbing – back posthaste.

    Alex Hawke, The Greens Minister for Immigration has just said on radio that

    “there are in my department, 150 full time lawyers fighting appeals by Illegal immigrants”

    Tsk, tsk, tsk…

  50. Shy Ted says:

    Take the money off the table and let the pro-reffo lawyers work pro bono.

  51. Mr Johnson says:

    This is Albo’s big chance to stake out a key policy difference to the Coalition – no child will stay in detention for more than 30 days. He will usher in a more compassionate immigrations system. It’s a winner Albo and the ABC will love it!

  52. Suburban Boy says:

    Tharnicaa and Kopika are Sri Lankans and shouldn’t be rewarded for what their parents did.

  53. kraka says:

    LL, everyone in Queensland calls Biloela Bilo.

    to correct the grammar CL-we call/called it Bill-O not buy lo. Semantics but reading this post i did not for one second think of Biloela, and i grew up near enough there that we played them in soccer every year.

  54. Diogenes says:

    Somewhere in Israel, 32 AD: guy in crowd with rocks in his hands: “My heart says give her a chance. She’s probably got a kid at home. But rule of law is rule of law.”

    You either have a rule of law or you don’t. Whether a particular law is an ‘ass’ is a totally different story, and something can be done about it.
    So you will have no problem with me breaking into your house and stealing all your stuff (not a threat btw) and not doing anything about it, because I claim to be starving & have never solen before and never will again, but my 2 children and wife are also starving?
    Should they be ultimately successful in staying given ministerial discretion they will have ‘stolen’ 4 places from our refugee intake, and 7million from our pockets.

  55. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    After seven years, it’s time for the government to call it a day and let them stay.

    That was my position CL on the Open Thread all of yesterday afternoon as a lone warrior (apart from trolls who don’t count) for holding it, so I feel no need to say much more here. My argument was humanitarian and also legal: we have a legal situation of Ministerial Discretion, and it is there for a purpose. This case illustrates why; some complexities do not fall into easy categories, especially if they drag on for years.

    The humanitarian case is self-evident. They have suffered enough under our lawfare, which is made to protect us and has been rightly applied. I made yesterday on the Ot and still make now particular reference to the brutal civil war in Sri Lanka which has also affected the parents of these Australian children, while fully recognizing they are not the only people in Sri Lanka so affected. This family have my sympathies as I have lived in Sri Lanka for a year as a local resident not as a tourist and I know something of how this country works, and of its still extant tensions. I also know that people in fear will often lie to escape from fear.

    To support this family is to be labelled by many as I was on the OT last night, at worst, as a ‘compassion’ attention-seeker. This saddened me a lot. I am not a Christian but I live by the Christian ideals of compassion and forgiveness in a Christian country, within the law which includes Ministerial discretion.

    During my stay in Sri Lanka I lived within a wider family of Christians, both Tamil and Singhalese, many of whom are now settled in Australia by the process of legal immigration. They are excellent citizens, as the Murrugappans appear to be.

  56. Bushkid says:

    2dogs says:
    June 16, 2021 at 12:34 am
    They are clearly well-regarded in a CQ town

    This is for show, CL. I have abridge to sell you, if you are interested.

    Actually, from personal knowledge, the family IS well regarded by many in Biloela.

    However, that doesn’t change the circumstances of their arrival, nor the legal status they brought upon themselves in by arriving in the manner they did.

    It’s a tough question when you look at the humanitarian angle -v- the legal one, and the consequences that could well flow from reversing the decision of all Australian courts, right up to the highest.

    We all saw the dreadful and deadly results of
    Rudd encouraging the “refugee regatta” with his soft-headed emotional opening up of the borders. A reversal of the court rulings in this instance would have a similar effect. There are still plenty of hopefuls waiting in Indonesia, waiting for a hint that they’d be in with a chance.

  57. C.L. says:

    LL, everyone in Queensland calls Biloela Bilo.

    to correct the grammar CL-we call/called it Bill-O not buy lo. Semantics but reading this post i did not for one second think of Biloela, and i grew up near enough there that we played them in soccer every year.

    I’ve never heard of “buy lo” and have never seen “Bill-O” in print.
    Bilo is common local and journalistic use.

  58. Bushkid says:

    jupes says:
    June 16, 2021 at 7:37 am
    Send the queue jumping lawyer enrichers – $7,000,000 of taxpayer’s monies so far and climbing – back posthaste.

    This. The fact that this farce has taken seven years is an indictment on our self-serving legal system.

    The process from illegal entry to deportation should be immediate for the vast majority of cases. For the few that deserve another look, they get one chance before the beak. One. Then they can fuck off.

    This is indeed where it all went wrong.

    The system is skewed towards seemingly endless appeals, reviews, tribunals, and finally dumped in the lap of a politician who may well be too easily swayed by media-hyped “public opinion”.

    Arrival by unorthodox means, having destroyed documents or fabricated a history in order to gain acceptance, should automatically be grounds on the basis of character to reject an application for refugee status.

    Also, if the bloke has indeed returned to Sri Lanka since coming here and claiming asylum, then the claim fails.

    But we, the Australian taxpayer, is still some $7,000,000 out of pocket. How much more has been spent on forcing other “cases” through the courts?

  59. Neil says:

    If one million people did the same thing what would peoples opinion change??

  60. Boambee John says:

    CL

    Perhaps so, but they should face (at the very least) a fine of a significant amount for their open breaches of the law. Say around $7 million? To recover the costs they have caused?

    The ostrich and others can then join together on a Go Fund Me site to pay the fine.

  61. Botswana O'Hooligan says:

    I was in surveillance for five years and never ever ever met a genuine refugee so send them back for the bottom lines is that the are scamming us by using their little kids as a lever, send them back after a period of incarceration for child abuse.

  62. Adam D says:

    “To support this family is to be labelled by many as I was on the OT last night, at worst, as a ‘compassion’ attention-seeker”

    This argument and CLs above is so incredibly naïve. I feel compassion as well, for the 1000+ souls lost at sea last time we went down this path. How short is your memory?

    That being said the system like everything else in this country is an absolute joke. The fact they have time to have 2 children and the eldest now 6 years old has caused this entire drama. I don’t know the solution to our legal system but its absolutely broken.

  63. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Roll up! Roll up!

    *no need to give money or time to worthy causes, particularly overseas where no one sees nor cares. This is your time to shine!

    We donate very regularly, Calli, towards need in the Third World.
    You don’t think yours is a bit of a cheap shot?

  64. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    That being said the system like everything else in this country is an absolute joke. The fact they have time to have 2 children and the eldest now 6 years old has caused this entire drama. I don’t know the solution to our legal system but its absolutely broken.

    I agree.

    The solution for this family is the legal one: Ministerial intervention.

  65. calli says:

    You don’t think yours is a bit of a cheap shot?

    Do you think I was referring to you? Why would I?

    My comment came directly after hanlover’s. You were not commenting on this thread at all when I made it.

    I try not to take cheap shots at anyone. Ammunition is way too expensive.

  66. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    This. The fact that this farce has taken seven years is an indictment on our self-serving legal system.

    This is the nub of the matter and something which the Morrison government needs to address. Of course people will do this is they can. That’s human nature. But serious controls on the possibility of doing this need to be introduced.

    Meanwhile, keeping this family in detention is maltreatment unworthy of us as a Nation. There are legal means, through Ministerial Discretion, to end this saga.

    And there should be ways introduced to legally halt it happening again. As Jupes says, time length is the critical factor to address.

  67. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Do you think I was referring to you? Why would I?

    No, I didn’t think that. I think just in general it was rather a cheap shot at anyone who wanted to end this distressing business by having the guts to end it legally, as can be done.

  68. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    I try not to take cheap shots at anyone. Ammunition is way too expensive.

    Yes. I’m perfect too.

  69. Cassie of Sydney says:

    “I mean, I still can’t legally fornicate with my Jack Russell, despite the hopes I held after gay marriage became legal.”

    Says everything about “handlover”…or maybe that should now be “pawlover”.

  70. Snoopy says:

    Send them back.

    The refugee activists can’t be allowed a win. Capitulating simply provides them with a template for future rorts.

  71. Iggie says:

    Will the 3000+ Sri Lankans sent back start legal proceedings to come back here –
    or compensation for being returned to S L.
    BTW, these people weren’t ‘fleeing from’ – they were ‘fleeing to.’

  72. Boambee John says:

    Lizzie

    And there should be ways introduced to legally halt it happening again. As Jupes says, time length is the critical factor to address.

    Introduce a system of legal aid for one only tribunal/court appeal, future appeals to be crowd funded by the likes of Numbers, Rintoul and Burnside. That will reduce the time wasting.

  73. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    And there should be ways introduced to legally halt it happening again. As Jupes says, time length is the critical factor to address.

    Introduce a system of legal aid for one only tribunal/court appeal, future appeals to be crowd funded by the likes of Numbers, Rintoul and Burnside. That will reduce the time wasting.

    Definitely worth trying.

    Some sharp ended legislation could be quickly drafted and presented to the people before the next election. Clearly, no-one wants queue jumpers. And no-one wants endless expensive legal argy-bargy. Fix it, Morrison. Here’s your challenge. For you know that Albo (or whoever it is) will simply be in favour of more of the same.

  74. C.L. says:

    This. The fact that this farce has taken seven years is an indictment on our self-serving legal system.

    This is really the essence of the issue and the reason for my take on it.

    You cannot have a Tough Borders policy alongside a gold-plated system of legal and appellate entitlements and whine about people who make use of the latter – up to and including appeals to the final court, to wit: opinion and ministerial discretion.

    Listening to the Liberals bullshitting about Da Borderz when they happily flood the joint with Ponzi scheme masses is nauseating. As is the lionisation of Peter Dutton. That potato-headed arsehole would dox every man Jack here if he could.

    The second reason for my view is that it’s straight-up Brett Suttonism: four cases and the country could be overwhelmed! Well, just be calm and manage events as they unfold.

    Thirdly, these two little girls are Australians.

    Either change the laws to create a more arbitrary body to immediately assess claims or accept that diehards like the Murugappans are going to fight for the right to stay and will frequently win – either because the public takes to them or because a Labor government will wave them through anyway.

    Just get real. You can’t send Australian children “back” anywhere.

  75. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    It’s a rock and a hard place for Morrison. Many people feel compassion for this family, and many others see harsh treatment as necessary. Morrison needs to show compassion in this case, legally, as he can, and then get to work pronto on fixing the endless legal mess of appeals.

    Introducing an ‘only one’ appeal system, and all of it to be determined within 60 days of making an asylum claim whilst held in detention ex-Australian territory, would solve it. Any of the few births would be non-Australian under that system. The message sent by calling an end to this family’s ordeal could be that Australians are compassionate people but that they will NOT put up with this long-term appeal system any more, citing the damage it does to families and individuals, and that a big fix of it is coming.

  76. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    Well said, CL, while I was busy writing my view, essentially the same.

    Your bringing in of Bret Suttonism was superb. 🙂

  77. Bad Samaritan says:

    Let’s get this straight….

    Murderous Tamils flee to Tamil heaven in India, with a few of their surviving victims hot on their tails. Then they BS their way into Oz, and start insulting everyone’s intelligence with this crap?

    What next? Mengele and Eichman were good family men, and a credit to Argentinian Society once they got over that Auschwitz “mistake”? And don’t forget…

    “Eichmann initially lived in Tucumán Province, where he worked for a government contractor. He sent for his family in 1952, and they moved to Buenos Aires. He held a series of low-paying jobs until finding employment at Mercedes-Benz, where he rose to department head.[108] The family built a house at 14 Garibaldi Street (now 6061 Garibaldi Street) and moved in during 1960.”

    C’mon CL (and co-compassionistas). Let bygones be bygones, eh? Everybody woulda liked the hard-working Senor Eichman and the kids, in Biloela too! FFS.

  78. Diogenes says:

    Definitely worth trying.

    Won’t work – lots of pro bono stuff happening already because it gets Lawyer A on TV basically getting free ads, Perhaps the way to forestall this is if the pro bono lawyers lose they are required to pay the Commonwealth’s costs out of their funds.

  79. C.L. says:

    Eichmann?

    The Americans took lots of Nazis – the ones who could build rockets, mainly.

  80. Timothy Neilson says:

    I agree in that it’s a rational argument that the family’s treatment has been sufficient deterrent to others from trying a similar exercise.

    Except that reality disproves it. There are plenty of people who try it on and then choose to spend many years either at a detention centre or in Indonesia waiting for the next yachting regatta. This family have done it themselves. The message you’re sending to every people smuggler and potential client in the world is “treat Australian law with utter disrespect, lie your arse off, and keep persisting and eventually you’ll win first prize.”

    If the parents had opted to move back to Sri Lanka we would not dream of keeping the kids here because they were born here on grounds of the difficult transition.

    This for the win.

    Meanwhile, keeping this family in detention is maltreatment unworthy of us as a Nation.

    Lizzie, they aren’t being “kept in detention”. They can leave whenever they like. The Australian taxpayer will even pay the transport costs. The only proviso is that they can’t come to live in Australia. We know for a fact that they can safely go to Sri Lanka, because hubby has voluntarily gone there quite often during his soi-disant flight from persecution there, or to live in Tamil Nadu if they prefer, as wifey had done for a very long time before deciding that she was fleeing persecution in Sri Lanka by travelling nearly halfway across the planet. They are in detention only because they choose to be. Not our fault, and not our problem (except to the extent that as Australian taxpayers we’re being lumbered with their living expenses).

  81. johanna says:

    Regarding the system of appeals, a major problem is that the Refugee Review Tribunal was packed with refugee advocates by various Labor governments, something so-called ‘conservative’ governments have rarely paid attention to. As usual.

    This persistent blindness to the importance of government appointments seems to be chronic among Coalition governments in all jurisdictions. Then they wonder why their policies (when they have any) get undermined all the time.

    Years ago I conducted a review of RRT decisions, and the results were appalling. Essentially, most Tribunal members gave the benefit of the doubt whenever a claim of persecution could not be verified. Some of them even excused outright lying because ‘trauma’ and so on.

    The system is clogged with appeals, not surprisingly, creating more costs to taxpayers and generating propaganda for advocates.

    As for the case in question, it’s straightforward. The type of behaviour you reward is the type you will get more of.

    Lying your way into a country should never be rewarded.

  82. Buccaneer says:

    Sorry, this family is not the victim here, the millions of genuine refugees living in dangerous and squalid conditions around the world in places that cannot compare to Sri Lanka who can’t get a gig because western countries are swamped by economic refugee queue jumpers are the true victims. Surely that 7 million dollars would have been more humanely used to help people in genuine jeopardy than to line the pockets of culture warrior lawyer scum? I find it incredibly condescending to Sri Lanka and Sri Lankans the suggestion that this family needs to be saved from there and that somehow a life in limbo is better than a return to their homeland. If at all they are victims it is from the low-lifes that keep telling them that they can help them stay.

  83. Mmamster says:

    Send them back to SL and allow them to apply for entry from there legally.

  84. old bloke says:

    C.L. says:
    June 16, 2021 at 12:05 pm

    Eichmann?

    The Americans took lots of Nazis – the ones who could build rockets, mainly.

    Same with the French. They had captured war criminals who “died” in French custody, i.e., joined the Foreign Legion and were given a new identity. They were in the first French contingent to return to Vietnam, did a great job for French PR amongst the Vietnamese.

  85. DM OF WA says:

    At this point I am in awe of this demonstration of the political power and strength of will by the Marxist left. This affair is a textbook case for why conservatives have lost the culture war:

    * They are willing and able to ruthlessly exploit individuals for years and years no matter what suffering they inflict on those individuals in the process.

    * They are masters of manipulation who know exactly how to trigger the white-guilt complex in certain insecure conservative types.

    * They have the determination to keep on fighting seemingly hopeless cases at enormous expense long after every legal avenue has been exhausted.

    * They understand that violent protest works and they use it to get what they want because conservatives will do anything to avoid it.

    * They own the media and can make their propaganda stories front page news forever.

    Conservatives are dilettante, amateurs who simply cannot compete against these ruthless, determined and very professional Marxist revolutionaries.

  86. Neil says:

    You cannot have a Tough Borders policy alongside a gold-plated system of legal and appellate entitlements and whine about people who make use of the latter –

    These people arrived in 2012 after Rudd/ALP dropped our borders. With a tough border policy we would not be talking about this issue.

    Deep down Labor does not believe in borders.

  87. Rosie says:

    Clearly the way forward is to severely limit access to the courts.

    I have a recollection that under Howard failed alysum seekers got sent home with a bill for their accommodation, no reapplying til the bill was paid.

  88. Nebia Hill says:

    This one “case”, yes one “case” has cost the Australian taxpayer more than $7,000,000 – and climbing – so far.

    “There are currently 17,000 migration/refugee cases in our Courts.”

    I rest my case…

  89. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha says:

    I have a recollection that under Howard failed alysum seekers got sent home with a bill for their accommodation, no reapplying til the bill was paid.

    From memory, yes.

  90. Dave in Marybrook says:

    C.L., I can’t see how you’ve come to this conclusion.
    Well, to be more complicated, I can’t see how you’ve let yourself come to this point.
    I remember a post from you iirc, not very long ago, decrying the effective Bill of Attainder brought against Clive Palmer by the McGowan government. It was a dangerous precedent, an impetuous exercize of power by the ruling class, publicizing Palmer’s race, age, position and prosperity as social-media shallow justification, contrary to the norms of Common Law.
    Now you’re advertising for an extraordinary overturning of immigration law, and low-key publicizing the family’s race, age, and position as “Bilo battlers” as a tipping point of normal good judgement.
    I can’t get with that.

  91. Kneel says:

    “I was in surveillance for five years and never ever ever met a genuine refugee…”

    I’ve met several.
    The one that springs to mind was (is) Iranian.
    He has a degree, so when he did his nasho, he was an officer – only a captain, but officer none the less. Did as he was ordered. Alas, the general giving the orders didn’t win the revolution. He says they put him against a wall, a dozen blokes pointed rifles at him, the guy shouted “Fire!” and he heard the clicks. Guy says “Ah. Next time we’ll make sure there are bullets in there – off you go!”. It was at this time that he decided that life in another country would be beneficial to his future health. And he has his own business here and employs a handful of people (none family).
    So they exist, and are real.

  92. Timothy Neilson says:

    DM OF WA says:
    June 16, 2021 at 12:49 pm

    Correct, subject to one clarification.

    * They have the determination to keep on fighting seemingly hopeless cases at enormous expense to other people (especially taxpayers) long after every legal avenue has been exhausted.

    Prof. Fred Lenin is right – if we could turn off the spigot on taxpayer funding for “activism”, “advocacy” etc., a good proportion of the problem would be solved. Bit of a chicken and egg dilemna though.

  93. Mr Johnson says:

    Just like the ABC and its predilection for defaming conservative figures, and then having to defend itself in court in expensive cases, the Bilo family and their public defender lawyers, and never-ending court cases, all smack of people with a devil may care attitude as they are spending other people’s money – guess whose?

  94. Scott Osmond says:

    Send them back. Forget the weaponised compassion argument. If you allow them than you will have to deal with the next 20 30 thousand or so who will pull the same trick. As for the support silliness conservatives need to learn to spot when they are being gaslighted. It’s not as if they will be killed or hurt back in their own country.

  95. Makka says:

    Sending the daughters “back”?
    They’re as Australian as Bindi Irwin.

    Ground down to finally cave, CL. Those kids are not as Australian as Bindi. That’s rubbish. They were bred here to garner sympathy from softies in order to gain a stay. Send them the fk back right now. Let the parents decide if they want to take their kids with them or not.

  96. Makka says:

    Serously CL, I credit you with a lot more commonsense than to fall for this leftist wailing and hyperventilating.

  97. Has anyone done a proper count of the people who want them them sent back/stay?
    No?
    How odd.
    Perhaps it’s because the number won’t be what is wanted.

  98. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha says:

    They were bred here to garner sympathy from softies in order to gain a stay.

    Weren’t the parents informed, at one of the hearings, before those children were born, that having children wouldn’t help their case?

  99. Baa Humbug says:

    To all the compassionate Cats above. Fvck you and the horse you rode in on.

    You pig ignorant dick heads will give this country away in no time.
    Those who think this family’s ordeal will deter others are stupid dicks who have no clue how people smugglers work, and no clue as to how uneducated and gullibly ignorant 3rd World country bumpkins are.

    Smugglers will show their prospective clients that this family got to stay because they had kids here and Aussies are compassionate. They won’t show the ordeal.
    Claiming that the tiny crack in the dam wall is no big deal is a dangerous claim. SHUT THE FVCK UP if you can’t dissociate your “feelz” from your head.

    How blind does one have to be to not see how quickly these things spiral out of control?
    Happened to us in 2017-18. Happens to the US at regular intervals (and they are still struggling with their “Dreamers”). Happened to the Euros in 2015. Trickle turned into a flood. Happening again to the US now after the border was mostly secured.

    There are hundreds of millions who are willing to risk all and break laws to get to places like Australia. Trickles turn into floods in no time.
    So fvck your compassion which will sell my country out. Fcking sponsor a family if that’s what your conscience tells you to do, but don’t impose your compassion on the rest of us. NO ILLEGAL Q JUMPING. NO ILLEGAL ENTRY…..PERIOD.

  100. Baa Humbug says:

    Happened to us in 2017-18

    Of course that should be 2007-08

  101. Rockdoctor says:

    I have done a few contracts in the Southern Bowen Basin, at one stage FIFO on Q’link DH8-200 & DH8-300 bugsmashers through Thangool AP (Biloela). The town is very small and conservative. My 2c worth, Mick GC nails it with the description of the town from my experiences.

    Personally I resent the backdown, ABC ran a ticker headline 2 days ago all day that Government voices were urging backdown, so who are these MP’s? All I see is 2 Photios backed swamp creatures and O’Dowd who can kiss probably up to 10% of his primary away to PHON with this stunt. Scomo, the wind vane for media currents strikes again…

    As for the family quite sure they have been home (not a slip of the tongue) a number of times, they aren’t genuine and have been found not to be by the courts. A bit of legal chicanery and a the luck to draw Denis Denuto of the bench gets us here, otherwise this would have been over a couple of years back.

  102. Mother Lode says:

    I don’t object to the opinions of ‘compassionate’ Cats (if they will forgive the insultingly shallow sobriquet).

    As Lizzie pointed out, there is such a thing as Ministerial Discretion, and it exists for a reason. (An obvious reason actually: No rules can cover all cases with the subtlety of human judgement.)

    I have expressed an opinion above. Took me all of a few minutes based on what I know of the case to do it. I would approach it with a rather different mindset if I discovered that the opinion I expressed here was going to be the basis of the official decision of whether they stayed or went.

    I see other opinions, not wrong ones.

    Except for trolls. They are dicks.

  103. Rex Anger says:

    @ Motherlode-

    +1

  104. bespoke says:

    Bushkid says:
    June 16, 2021 at 9:53 am
    The system is skewed towards seemingly endless appeals, reviews, tribunals, and finally dumped in the lap of a politician who may well be too easily swayed by media-hyped “public opinion”.

    This I do feel sorry for but at least they got there day court. Many Australians aren’t allowed even that when dealing in custody claims.

    Oh! Guilt tripping people is the ultimate cheep shot, Lizzie. I wears thin very quick.

  105. Ed Case says:

    They got about 100 days in various Courts and were either found not to be Refugees or the Lower Courts findings were upheld.
    We know the Costs of representation are $7 million.
    Add to that the Costs of providing the Court itself, the Costs to the Immigration Dept, including Investigators traveling to Sri Lanka, is there any change out of $20 million?
    But here’s the big question:
    If Nades’s profession was Abortion Provider rather than Abattoir Drone, would so many be saying
    “Have a heart and let them stay.“?

  106. Scott Osmond says:

    If they manage to stay look out for every other nomad and rent seeker to show up with a babe in the belly ready to drop or will rapidly have one once they have arrived. Birthright citizenship has been a disaster and been widely abused in America. Those talking about compassion and humanitarian ideals need to take the consequences that will result in to account. You can bet that the open borders supporters on the left, the welfare shoppers and the people smugglers have. No wonder the left have taken over. All they needed to do is play on the heartstrings of conservatives and they fold like a cheap suit. When the boats start up and people start drowning again the deaths will be a result of your emotional incontinence.

  107. Ed Case says:

    If people drowning is the main concern, why not provide proper ships to pick all self selecting Australians up in their home countries?

  108. Rosie says:

    Excellent suggestion ed case.

    Come one, come all.

    Start tomorrow.

  109. Dave in Marybrook says:

    “Ministerial Discretion” has given us a State of Emergency, and the Scamdemic lock-downs.
    There is such a thing as ministerial discretion, yes. There are also such things as dangerous precedents, overrreach, and monumental cock-ups.

  110. Scott Osmond says:

    Come one, come all. How’s that working out for America? California is the future for any nation who opens the borders and allows the grasshoppers to take from the productive ends up like California. Broke and a shithole. It’s not just the money it’s the cultural values from low social trust civilisations. It’s as if people are deliberately ignoring the lessons from several thousands of years of human experience.

  111. min says:

    Hey Cats without the activists pushing that family this is would not be happening . Manipulated and probably promised impossible dreams that are just being abused by the activists . They were offered fares back to Sri Lanka and told to reapply with a job, friends and backing in the town they would be allowed back in .
    Go after the activists who do not care a damn about this family . Believe the printers are already doing brochures for the people smugglers in Indonesia

  112. DrBeauGan says:

    Comfort yourself CL with the thought that you have numbers on your side.

  113. PB says:

    All media reports on this have included a nightmare parade of insufferable , virtue-signalling White women, pretty much exclusively.

  114. Ed Case says:

    Because Women tend to follow the leader and react more to Shaming.
    The plan appears to be to shave more of the Doctor’s Wives demographic off the Liberals.
    Judging by the Response, it’s worked.
    Forget the Courts and the Public Service, it’s Government by Opinion Poll now.

  115. PeterW says:

    It’s not compassion. It’s self-serving sentimentality by people who don’t want to recognise a few truths.
    1. Having an appeals system designed to make as sure as possible that justice is being done and the law properly applied, makes Australia the “good” party, and not those who choose to abuse that good faith by endlessly appealing without good grounds.
    2. Those who choose to remain here – undertaking the aforesaid endless appeals – are NOT victims of our law, but of their own decisions.
    3. No lawyer, politician or bleeding-heart talking about “compassion” while demanding that this be paid for with Other People’s Money should be accorded the slightest credibility.
    4. The parents have done this to their own children. We have not.
    5. Doing this to their own children does not make them good candidates for citizenship.
    6. Don’t talk to me about compassion while ignoring the drowned…..

  116. PB says:

    “Sepsis is v rare & dangerous disease. Is it not passing strange that having exhausted every possible legal avenue, the medical profession steps in to diagnose something like this?”

    I didn’t want to be the one who said it first, but….yeah. Strangely fortuitous.

  117. PeterW says:

    Ministerial discretion exists for a reason.

    That reason is not to ignore the clear mandate that voters imposed upon successive governments to stop illegal immigration.

    It exists to deal with those situations which the law does not (adequately) cover… not because certain soppy sentimentalists, virtue signallers and professional lobbyists-in-search-of-a-cause (and taxpayers’ money) dislike the law.

  118. DM OF WA says:

    This issue is not primarily about enabling people smugglers and it is not going to go away whatever happens to the Murugappan family.

    The Marxist revolutionaries behind the open borders campaign, for that is what they are, have much grander plans.

    This is about undermining the rule of law in Australia.

    This is about delegitimizing the Australian state.

    This about the loss of Australian sovereignty.

    They are going to continue smacking your faces with heart-rending pictures and stories of suffering photogenic little brown children until the pain of your white guilt makes you prostrate yourselves and beg for forgiveness.

    And then they will start doing it to you all over again.

    They will not stop until Australia becomes like the USA or UK or the EU: total open borders for illegal immigrants from the Third World.

    And Australian children will be taught to bow their heads in shame when they recall how the previous generation were a bunch of white-supremacists who persecuted innocent immigrants.

  119. PeterW says:

    …. A denial of the Right of Australians to make laws concerning who may or may not enter this country.

    We understand that laws are imperfect. The correct response is that abandoning law to an overdose of sentimentality creates even more problems. The fact that we have such of comprehensive appeals system is evidence enough to any reasonable person that Australia is not harsh, unfair or lacking in compassion.

    The principle behind the Rule of Law, is that the Law is applied impartially, without regard to sentiment. The alternative is the law of personal feelings, where feelings matter and facts do not. Where tribal allegiance, class connection or emotional appeal are primary. The results are corruption, poverty and civil strife.

    Try having some “compassion” for Australians first.

  120. Scott Osmond says:

    DM, that is why I say no. It’s not cold heartedness. It’s not a lack of empathy or compassion. It’s that I know when someone is trying to manipulate my emotions. It’s that I see the agenda. It’s not as if the Marxists and fellow travellers have made a secret of their agenda.

  121. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    “Try having some “compassion” for Australians first.”

    Quite so, and it is my $7 million being thrown around with gay abandon, and no little abuse, by “Feeeelllzzz” whose name did not appear on the ballot paper in my electorate.

  122. kae says:

    Let them stay?

    Might as well disband our border police and just let everyone in.

    I doubt the bleating-hearts would cope with Australia after open borders and nass invas, er, immigration.

    Look at how wonderful Europe is since their borders were softened.

  123. Scott Osmond says:

    Kae, I had a funny conversation with a multiculty type. Going on and on about the nice cultural diversity and how nice it all was. To which I asked what she liked most? The no go areas, the gang attacks on females, the home invasions or the chance of a random stabbing or vehicle ploughing through a crowded sidewalk or was it that the government needed to restrict more and more traditional freedoms to keep everyone safe? You would have thought I’d taken a dump in her handbag.

  124. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare says:

    CL put up this thread to state his reasons for believing in a pragmatic response to the situation of one family in an extraordinary position within our immigration system, referencing a broken Appeals system which needs fixing so that this situation doesn’t arise again. He notes, and I concur, that our current quasi-Ponzi immigration system and its many unseen rorts runs parallel to many other things that are wrong with the way we are governed. CL also sees that there is room for compassion to this family. His position as stated is very much what I feel and have stated.

    I know that many on this thread feel very differently, and on this I ask for the Voltaire response to my views, without the personal abuse re my supposed ‘compassion’ mongering that I have received and found distressing on the Open Thread. I respect many people who come to comment on Catallaxy, but a certain few do not respect me personally at all and never will, regardless of whatever views I present. I cannot fix what is broken there and do not want to try to do so.

    Those objecting to what CL and I have said often take as their reference the appalling seaborne events that occurred when Rudd dismantled controls that seemed to be working. If compassion for this family had the likely result of causing this to happen again, I would put them on a plane to Sri Lanka today. But it does not; to believe so is over-reaction. In thinking this, I am joined by some conservative commentators in the media, including Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones.

    What we currently have is a running sore in the form of this family, the end result of Rudd-Gillard years of soft policy and giving in. We have seen how these things were ‘fixed’ in offshore facilities recently by simply moving non-returners to other nations via deals, as we made with the US. Allowing this working family to remain where they are mostly wanted would be exceptional (for that is what Ministerial Discretion is) and create no precedent useful in law. It would be pragmatic and allow the introduction of much tougher controls in the name of never allowing this situation to repeat itself (if only we had a government capable of taking that on).

    I accept that many people do not accept this view and wish to see this couple and their two Australian-born children expelled from Australia, in part because they regard these parents, with deficient information and thus unfairly in my view, as people of poor character. Comments above also express a great fear of ‘floodgates’ being opened, which I think is rather a long bow to draw. If anything, ending this case may encourage stronger controls to be introduced. Sadly, Biden’s current immigration disaster in the US certainly is driving many here to make unfounded parallels.

    I simply suggest that there may be a better way to deal with this current issue in Australia, a calm and measured way which is compassionate, forgiving and sensible. Echo chambers are not free speech, so thank you for listening to me and thank you to CL for putting up this thread.

  125. DM OF WA says:

    Frankly, I am appalled to read the novel argument being made by some weak-minded people here that the Murugappan family should be allowed remain in Australia simply because their children were born here.

    Australia does not have a Fourteenth Amendment in her constitution – thank God. Yet that is where we are heading if the Marxists get their way.

    It never ends. They just keep setting one new precedent after another; weakening each law step by step. That is how we got into this mess in the first place.

    We have to hold the line or we break.

  126. PeterW says:

    Lizzie.

    Coming here contrary to law and abusing our legal system IS prima face evidence of poor character…. as is the apparent misrepresentation of their grounds for being here.

    But we’ve been there… Repetition on your part does not grant you the moral high ground.

  127. bespoke says:

    Wrong thread

  128. Dot says:

    Australia does not have a Fourteenth Amendment in her constitution – thank God. Yet that is where we are heading if the Marxists get their way.

    No, we have a constitution where the High Court has full faith in the executive and Parliament.

    To call the 14th amendment “Marxist” is some real bullshit.

  129. Dot says:

    Snoopy says:
    June 16, 2021 at 10:42 am
    Send them back.

    The refugee activists can’t be allowed a win. Capitulating simply provides them with a template for future rorts.

    Not if you actually enforce the law from now on.

    You have one blip vs tens of thousands turned back.

    It’s still a win and it doesn’t punish the children.

    You cannot have a Tough Borders policy alongside a gold-plated system of legal and appellate entitlements and whine about people who make use of the latter – up to and including appeals to the final court, to wit: opinion and ministerial discretion.

    One appeal and its get lost or stay. Justice delayed is justice denied, right?

    Non citizens don’t get rights under a 14th amendment style rule.

  130. Rosie says:

    What about the other families with young children facing removal dot?

  131. Dot says:

    If there are that many families, the Coalition reneged on their guarantee that people coming illegally would never settle in Australia.

  132. Rosie says:

    I didn’t say there were many but there is at least one that has been rejected, an Iraqi family reported late last year.

  133. Dot says:

    The they’re not in the same situation, no?

  134. bespoke says:

    If there are that many families, the Coalition reneged on their guarantee that people coming illegally would never settle in Australia.

    Certainly would if you had your way.

  135. Rosie says:

    Well yes, they’ve failed in their claims and are facing being sent home.

  136. Dot says:

    ???

    No, one appeal. Then fuck off if you lose.

    The decision can be made non-justiciable. They’re not citizens and the ADJR can be amended.

  137. Dot says:

    Two families out of 12,000 spots is an okay failure rate. They’d both be gone already if the right to appeal was limited.

    C.L. said something similar at 11.07 PM yesterday, I agree with his post there.

  138. Rosie says:

    I’m sure there are more, I only searched Iraq.

    two

  139. Rosie says:

    My point is, compassion is only for poster family.

  140. Dot says:

    Yeah I get it. The activists picked them like a stage managed political rally.

  141. Neil says:

    It is amazing the damage Labor does with their bad policy decisions.

    We are having this discussion because Rudd/Labor dismantled Howards Pacific Solution in 2008 because Labor said it was a mean, nasty and uncompassionate policy.

    50,000 boat people and $15B later we are still dealing with the mess.

  142. PeterW says:

    You have one blip vs tens of thousands turned back.

    Dot.
    Problem is that it is not just “one blip”.
    Australia’s institutions and culture have been going downhill for 50 years that I’ve seen. This is not one isolated issue, but part of a long series of incremental failures and compromises that always make things worse, never better. It drags down the Australia that we love, not build it up.

    Don’t blame reasonable, thinking, Australians for concluding that this process must be fought at every point, not just where it feels good.

    It’s still a win and it doesn’t punish the children.

    It’s a very temporary win in what has been a losing war for fifty years.
    You are wrong to consider it in isolation and you are definitely wrong to consider any other outcome as “punishing the children”. That is the dishonest propaganda designed to stop people thinking by appealing to emotion. It is manipulative.

    It’s not punishment.
    It is simply accepting that the choices of parents impact upon children. Claiming that life in any other society than ours is a punishment, reeks of xenophobia. Lizzie is on record as insisting that Sri Lankan people and society are wonderful…..

  143. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    PeterW says at 7:49 am:

    ” …
    Australia’s institutions and culture have been going downhill for 50 years … compromises that always make things worse…

    Don’t blame reasonable, thinking, Australians for concluding that this process must be fought at every point, not just where it feels good.

    … wrong to consider it [the lovely brown, sad, sad eyes of the liddle kiddies – nay, babies] in isolation … dishonest propaganda designed to stop people thinking by appealing to emotion. It is manipulative.

    … Claiming that life in any other society than ours is a punishment, reeks of xenophobia. Lizzie is on record as insisting that Sri Lankan people and society are wonderful…..”

    All of this makes eminent good sense PeterW.

    In the context of destruction of a society – in days long gone the plotters and assassins came at Caesar in plain view. Not now – the UN, the spook agencies “protecting” the people, the legislative and judicial branches, the plutocracy – Soros and Gates, the Russian mafia, Goofy and Pluto – are all beavering away, obscured, successfully pursuing their interests. Ordinary people who vote and the political pressure groups they form are their dumb foot soldiers, their useful idiots. They have no idea and even less interest in informing themselves.

    These useful idiots – the Rintoulists and other illegals advocates in their 65 year old grey pony tails and single ear stud (one ear only, fake jewellery ‘cos they are too miserable to pay for the real thing) are in there too pursuing their agenda and you can bet they have no worthy national, cultural, society or other community objective.

    Along comes the retiree who never earned a managerial role and a bored housewife who discovers relevancy, swallows whole what Miss at school is indoctrinating the grandchildren with and gets active, waving placards, chanting, feeelzing, sobbing, FacePlanting. What’s a “policy”? What’s a “mandate”? “The Governor General must act!” “Rule of law – what’s that?” and the funniest one “That law doesn’t suit me. It’s a bad law!” Oh the power rush!

    Ministerial discretion? In about 1998 I was in conversation with Comrade capitalist Graham Richardson and asked him about the various independent tribunals and authorities going off the reservation. He shrugged and smiled … “People complained about ministers making decisions so we gave them what they want. Now they complain about what they got!”

    It sounds like a marvelous tool until the Minister for Planning exercises his ministerial discretion to approve the multi storey housing department tower for dole bludgers overlooking your backyard.

    These self opiniated dopes are selling that which is not theirs, snarling at ordinary . They are too dimwitted, by choice, to see the crocodile watching.

    Enough – I stopped to jot down these few thoughts hours ago, came back for a couple of dabs then did lots of other things and came back again. Now I’m late for Friday night opinion, “I wouldn’t feed Manly”, “Garn ya mongrel”, laughs and schooners of New (for me ‘cos I’m from NSW – the other blokes drink dishwater, no class)! 😜

  144. Mick Gold Coast QLD says:

    PeterW says at 7:49 am:

    ” …
    Australia’s institutions and culture have been going downhill for 50 years … compromises that always make things worse…

    Don’t blame reasonable, thinking, Australians for concluding that this process must be fought at every point, not just where it feels good.

    … wrong to consider it [the lovely brown, sad, sad eyes of the liddle kiddies – nay, babies] in isolation … dishonest propaganda designed to stop people thinking by appealing to emotion. It is manipulative.

    … Claiming that life in any other society than ours is a punishment, reeks of xenophobia. Lizzie is on record as insisting that Sri Lankan people and society are wonderful…..”

    All of this makes eminent good sense PeterW.

    In the context of destruction of a society – in days long gone the plotters and assassins came at Caesar in plain view. Not now – the UN, the spook agencies “protecting” the people, the legislative and judicial branches, the plutocracy – Soros and Gates, the Russian mafia, Goofy and Pluto – are all beavering away, obscured, successfully pursuing their interests. Ordinary people who vote and the political pressure groups they form are their dumb foot soldiers, their useful idiots. They have no idea and even less interest in informing themselves.

    These useful idiots – the Rintoulists and other illegals advocates in their 65 year old grey pony tails and single ear stud (one ear only, fake jooollery ‘cos they are too miserable to pay for the real thing) are in there too pursuing their agenda and you can bet they have no worthy national, cultural, society or other community objective.

    Along comes the retiree who never earned a managerial role and a bored housewife who discovers relevancy, swallows whole what Miss at school is indoctrinating the grandchildren with and gets active, waving placards, chanting, feeelzing, sobbing, FacePlanting. What’s a “policy”? What’s a “mandate”? “The Governor General must act!” “Rule of law – what’s that?” and the funniest one “That law doesn’t suit me. It’s a bad law!” Oh the power rush!

    Ministerial discretion? In about 1998 I was in conversation with Comrade capitalist Graham Richardson and asked him about the various independent tribunals and authorities going off the reservation. He shrugged and smiled … “People complained about ministers making decisions so we gave them what they want. Now they complain about what they got!”

    It sounds like a marvelous tool until the Minister for Planning exercises his ministerial discretion to approve the multi storey housing department tower for dole bludgers overlooking your backyard.

    These self opiniated dopes are selling that which is not theirs, snarling at ordinary . They are too dimwitted, by choice, to see the crocodile watching.

    Enough – I stopped to jot down these few thoughts hours ago, came back for a couple of dabs then did lots of other things and came back again. Now I’m late for Friday night opinion, “I wouldn’t feed Manly”, “Garn ya mongrel”, laughs and schooners of New (for me ‘cos I’m from NSW – the other blokes drink dishwater, no class)! 😜

  145. The unsympathetic hardliners comprising my staff make the Cat’s “Deport ’em now” hardliners look like ambivalent middle-of-the-roaders.

    No joke, opinion among the staff here runs at eleventy-eleven times more hard-assed against the country shoppers than any posting upthread by any Cat contributor.

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